it was possibly the most tense call ever between these two men. jo biden and benjamin netanyahu spoke for the first since monday's spoke for the first time since monday's attack on the aid convoy. is israel's key international alliance now in danger of fracturing? the stakes are high. could the convoy attack spur an arms embargo on israel by countries who fear falling foul of international law? we'll be joined by lord kim darroch, the former national security advisor. anna stavrianakis, professor of international relations at the university of sussex. and bob seeley, conservative mp on the foreign affairs committee.

also tonight, a new report by the nuffield trust has found that the demand for autism and adhd assessments in england has risen at such a speed that services are unable to keep up. so what's the impact of that? we'll be speaking to dr sue smith, a specialist in autism diagnosis. pippa simou, a specialist adhd coach who also has adhd herself. and lee chambers, an autistic businessman. and as keir starmer celebrates four years as labour leader, would a stonking election victory for labour put wind in his sails, or unleash hoards of restive backbenchers baying at him for radical change? good evening. there looks tonight to be a growing chasm between israel and it's closest ally the united states as the fallout from the idf strike killing seven aid workers in gaza intensifies. earlier this evening joe biden called for an immediate ceasefire in gaza. in a phone call, the us president told benjamin netanyahu that us support for israel will depend on steps being taken

to "address civilian harm" and "humanitarian suffering" in gaza. the us president and israeli prime minister were speaking for the first time since the israeli strike which killed aid workers from the world central kitchen charity on monday. pressure is also growing tonight on western nations, incuding the uk, to reassess its arms supplies to israel in light of the strike amid concerns around whether israeli actions have broken international law. it's been a day of warnings. president biden told benjamin netanyahu that the us�*s gaza policy was dependent on israel's actions. good evening, everyone. there is no higher priority in gaza than protecting civilians, servicing humanitarian assistance and ensuring the security of those who provide it. yet in the past few days civilians have continued to suffer and humanitarian assistance has stalled after seven aid workers, three of whom were british nationals, were killed in an airstrike.

in the uk the government received a strongly worded letter from 600 legal experts advising that the export of weapons to israel must end. the signatories include three former supreme courtjustices. one of them is its former president, lady hale, who crossed legal swords with the government in 2019 when she announced that borisjohnson�*s proroguing parliament was unlawful. the letter says the government's obligations under international law require it... to suspend the provision of weapons and weapons systems to the government of israel. it adds... the provision of military assistance and material to israel may render the uk complicit in genocide, as well as serious breaches of international humanitarian law. and concludes... while we welcome the increasingly robust calls by your government for a cessation in fighting and the unobstructed entry into gaza of humanitarian assistance, simultaneously to continue to take

two striking examples, the sale of weapons and weapons systems to israel and to maintain threats of suspending uk aid to the unrwa, falls significantly short of your government's obligations under international law. since 2008, the government has licensed over £547 million worth of arms to israel. in 2022, uk military exports to israel came to £42 million. nrwathat is 0.02% of the total received by israel. of course, the uk's contribution is dwarfed by that of the us. there are increasing calls for britain to stop selling arms... on tuesday prime minister rishi sunak responded to the sun newspaper. i think we've always had a very careful export licensing regime that we adhere to, the set of rules, regulations and procedures that we always follow, and i have been consistently clear with prime minister netanyahu that at the start of this conflict that whilst of course we defend israel's right to defend itself and its people

against attacks from hamas, they have to do that in accordance with international humanitarian law. world central kitchen, whose aid workers were killed in monday's strike has demanded an independent investigation. israel says it is already conducting one and claims it will be independent. as we learn more and the investigation reveals exactly what happened and the cause of what happened, we will certainly adjust our practices in the future to make sure that this doesn't happen again. since monday's attack three aid charity groups have ceased transporting aid, compounding the desperate plight of gaza's people. whether this government will choose to follow the advice of more than 600 legal experts remains to be seen, but the warning it risks being complicit in genocide is stark. now to discuss this further, i'm joined by lord kim darroch — anna stavrianakis —

professor of international relations at the university of sussex, and bob seely, conservative mp on the foreign affairs committee. let's begin with the letter sent to the government from 600 lawyers. how much weight do you put on the argument that now it is time to stop selling arms? fix, argument that now it is time to stop selling arms?— selling arms? a lot of weight. i have always — selling arms? a lot of weight. i have always supported - selling arms? a lot of weight. i have always supported israel'sl selling arms? a lot of weight. i - have always supported israel's right to self—defence in the wake of those appalling attacks on the 7th of october, but that has to be conducted in with international, humanitarian law. when you have 600 senior legal figures saying they doubt whether that is the case, when you have senior leaders in international organisations saying that refugees in gaza are on the edge of starvation, and when you

have 31,000, according to hamas, 31,000 palestinian dead and the seemingly reckless approach to this operation, add all that together and i think there is a compelling case for the uk to move the rhetoric to action. �* , , for the uk to move the rhetoric to action. 3 , ~ . for the uk to move the rhetoric to action. 2, . ., i. ., action. let's be clear, you now think it is _ action. let's be clear, you now think it is time _ action. let's be clear, you now think it is time for _ action. let's be clear, you now think it is time for the - action. let's be clear, you now think it is time for the uk - action. let's be clear, you now think it is time for the uk to i action. let's be clear, you now. think it is time for the uk to stop supplying israel with arms? yes. think it is time for the uk to stop supplying israel with arms? supplying israelwith arms? yes, and is the exnert — supplying israelwith arms? yes, and is the exnert on _ supplying israelwith arms? yes, and is the expert on that, _ supplying israelwith arms? yes, and is the expert on that, but _ is the expert on that, but nevertheless as a symbol of what we think about things, and how we assess the israeli action and fall into line with countries like canada and the netherlands and spain and belgium, who have already done that, even the americans are talking about it, ithink it is even the americans are talking about it, i think it is the right time to do it. , . ., , do it. israel will say it does everything _ do it. israel will say it does everything it _ do it. israel will say it does everything it can _ do it. israel will say it does everything it can to - do it. israel will say it does everything it can to avoid l do it. israel will say it does - everything it can to avoid civilian casualties. everything it can to avoid civilian casualties-— everything it can to avoid civilian casualties. ~ ., , ., casualties. well, it does say that. i think casualties. well, it does say that. i think they _ casualties. well, it does say that. i think they are _ casualties. well, it does say that. i think they are doing _ casualties. well, it does say that. i think they are doing something l casualties. well, it does say that. l i think they are doing something to try and do it but not enough. that is notjust my personaljudgement.

you hear that from all the people on the ground, international experts on the ground, international experts on the ground, international experts on the ground, and from international governments including the us. bab governments including the us. bob seale , do governments including the us. bob sealey, do you think it is now time for britain to reassess and indeed stop supplying arms to israel? goad stop supplying arms to israel? good evenin: , i stop supplying arms to israel? good evening, i certainly _ stop supplying arms to israel? good evening, i certainly think _ stop supplying arms to israel? good evening, i certainly think it is time — evening, i certainly think it is time to— evening, i certainly think it is time to reassess what we are doing and we _ time to reassess what we are doing and we need to have a clear strategy and we need to have a clear strategy and stick_ and we need to have a clear strategy and stick to— and we need to have a clear strategy and stick to it. but the reality is, as you _ and stick to it. but the reality is, as you have _ and stick to it. but the reality is, as you have said yourself, is that we sunply— as you have said yourself, is that we supply 0.02% of israel's arms imports, — we supply 0.02% of israel's arms imports, which is a meaninglessly small— imports, which is a meaninglessly small figure. actually by blocking it, effectively this is shallow gesture _ it, effectively this is shallow gesture politics and nothing but and it is symptomatic of the way that gesture — it is symptomatic of the way that gesture politics is driving out rigourous thought from public debate — rigourous thought from public debate. let's have a rigourous public— debate. let's have a rigourous public debate, let's talk about the issues, _ public debate, let's talk about the issues, but please let's drop the gesture — issues, but please let's drop the gesture politics because it is pretty— gesture politics because it is pretty pointless. in gesture politics because it is pretty pointless.— gesture politics because it is pretty pointless. gesture politics because it is re ointless. ., pretty pointless. in a minute i will be askin: pretty pointless. in a minute i will

be asking anna — pretty pointless. in a minute i will be asking anna about _ pretty pointless. in a minute i will be asking anna about what - pretty pointless. in a minute i will be asking anna about what the . pretty pointless. in a minute i will. be asking anna about what the arms represent, but surely it is the principal? if you don't use your leveraged, then what leverage do you have? it is the principal, it would matter a great deal to israel if the uk said enough, no more, rather than the fact that it is 0.02%? i am sor , the fact that it is 0.02%? i am sorry. the _ the fact that it is 0.02%? i am sorry, the 0.02% _ the fact that it is 0.02%? i am sorry, the 0.02% makes - the fact that it is 0.02%? i am sorry, the 0.02% makes this | the fact that it is 0.02%? | amj sorry, the 0.02% makes this a completely irrelevant gesture. if we are going _ completely irrelevant gesture. if we are going to talk about doing things. — are going to talk about doing things, absolutely let's do that, because — things, absolutely let's do that, because it is terrible that seven aid workers have been killed, but the reality— aid workers have been killed, but the reality is 170 aid workers have already— the reality is 170 aid workers have already been killed because effectively large parts of gaza arem — effectively large parts of gaza arem |f— effectively large parts of gaza are... ., . ., are... if not that, then what? if not stepping — are... if not that, then what? if not stopping arms, _ are... if not that, then what? if not stopping arms, then - are... if not that, then what? if not stopping arms, then what? | not stopping arms, then what? kirsty, strategy and let's stick to it. kirsty, strategy and let's stick to it but _ kirsty, strategy and let's stick to it but if— kirsty, strategy and let's stick to it. but if you want to have a strategy _ it. but if you want to have a strategy and influence over people,

you have _ strategy and influence over people, you have to stay close to them. so we have _ you have to stay close to them. so we have to — you have to stay close to them. so we have to double down on our relationship with israel and also arab _ relationship with israel and also arab states involved as well. we could _ arab states involved as well. we could he — arab states involved as well. we could be recognising a palestinian state _ could be recognising a palestinian state much more quickly than we do. we could _ state much more quickly than we do. we could he — state much more quickly than we do. we could be much more certain about getting _ we could be much more certain about getting aid _ we could be much more certain about getting aid into gaza. we could be working _ getting aid into gaza. we could be working on— getting aid into gaza. we could be working on a strategy to work round israel— working on a strategy to work round israel to— working on a strategy to work round israel to do— working on a strategy to work round israel to do more in the west bank, to work— israel to do more in the west bank, to work with — israel to do more in the west bank, to work with a potential new government that will take netanyahu's place. netanyahu sadly has been _ netanyahu's place. netanyahu sadly has been a disaster for israel. let's — has been a disaster for israel. let's talk— has been a disaster for israel. let's talk about a strategy and what we need _ let's talk about a strategy and what we need to— let's talk about a strategy and what we need to do but gesture politics at this— we need to do but gesture politics at this point is a really bad taste. anna _ at this point is a really bad taste. anna stavrianakis, what does it mean when we are talking about 0.02%? what impact will it have on israel's operations? 50. what impact will it have on israel's operations?— what impact will it have on israel's oerations? , , , , ' , operations? so, the uk supplies 1596 ofthe operations? so, the uk supplies 1596 of the components _ operations? so, the uk supplies 1596 of the components for _ operations? so, the uk supplies 1596 of the components for every - operations? so, the uk supplies 1596 of the components for every f - operations? so, the uk supplies 1596 of the components for every f 35 - of the components for every f 35 that israel— of the components for every f 35 that israel operates. _ of the components for every f 35 that israel operates. it— of the components for every f 35 that israel operates. it supplies. that israel operates. it supplies spares, — that israel operates. it supplies spares, it— that israel operates. it supplies spares, it supplies _ that israel operates. it supplies| spares, it supplies ammunitions that israel operates. it supplies -

spares, it supplies ammunitions and missiles _ spares, it supplies ammunitions and missiles pretty— spares, it supplies ammunitions and missiles. pretty soon _ spares, it supplies ammunitions and missiles. pretty soon the _ spares, it supplies ammunitions and missiles. pretty soon the israelis - missiles. pretty soon the israelis are going — missiles. pretty soon the israelis are going to— missiles. pretty soon the israelis are going to start _ missiles. pretty soon the israelis are going to start running - missiles. pretty soon the israelis are going to start running out. missiles. pretty soon the israelis are going to start running out ofl are going to start running out of ammunition _ are going to start running out of ammunition and _ are going to start running out of ammunition and they— are going to start running out of ammunition and they are - are going to start running out of ammunition and they are goingl are going to start running out of. ammunition and they are going to need _ ammunition and they are going to need spares — ammunition and they are going to need spares to— ammunition and they are going to need spares to maintain - ammunition and they are going to need spares to maintain their - need spares to maintain their aircraft — need spares to maintain their aircraft they— need spares to maintain their aircraft. they have _ need spares to maintain their aircraft. they have to - need spares to maintain their aircraft. they have to get - need spares to maintain their i aircraft. they have to get them need spares to maintain their - aircraft. they have to get them from somewhere — aircraft. they have to get them from somewhere and _ aircraft. they have to get them from somewhere and one _ aircraft. they have to get them from somewhere and one of— aircraft. they have to get them from somewhere and one of those - aircraft. they have to get them from somewhere and one of those placesl aircraft. they have to get them from i somewhere and one of those places is the uk _ somewhere and one of those places is the uk if_ somewhere and one of those places is the uk if the — somewhere and one of those places is the uk ifthe uk_ somewhere and one of those places is the uk. if the uk government- somewhere and one of those places is the uk. if the uk government were i somewhere and one of those places is the uk. if the uk government were to| the uk. if the uk government were to decide _ the uk. if the uk government were to decide not— the uk. if the uk government were to decide not to — the uk. if the uk government were to decide not to allow _ the uk. if the uk government were to decide not to allow those _ the uk. if the uk government were to decide not to allow those to _ the uk. if the uk government were to decide not to allow those to go, - decide not to allow those to go, then— decide not to allow those to go, then the — decide not to allow those to go, then the israeli _ decide not to allow those to go, then the israeli war— decide not to allow those to go, then the israeli war on - decide not to allow those to go, then the israeli war on the - then the israeli war on the palestinians— then the israeli war on the palestinians would - then the israeli war on the palestinians would grind . then the israeli war on thel palestinians would grind to then the israeli war on the . palestinians would grind to a then the israeli war on the - palestinians would grind to a halt. the other— palestinians would grind to a halt. the other thing _ palestinians would grind to a halt. the other thing i— palestinians would grind to a halt. the other thing i would _ palestinians would grind to a halt. the other thing i would say- palestinians would grind to a halt. the other thing i would say abouti the other thing i would say about the figures — the other thing i would say about the figures that _ the other thing i would say about the figures that were _ the other thing i would say about the figures that were used - the other thing i would say about the figures that were used to - the other thing i would say about the figures that were used to talk about— the figures that were used to talk about uk— the figures that were used to talk about uk arms _ the figures that were used to talk about uk arms sales, _ the figures that were used to talk about uk arms sales, on- the figures that were used to talk about uk arms sales, on the - the figures that were used to talk about uk arms sales, on the one| the figures that were used to talk- about uk arms sales, on the one hand the figures _ about uk arms sales, on the one hand the figures are — about uk arms sales, on the one hand the figures are actually— about uk arms sales, on the one hand the figures are actually very _ the figures are actually very difficult _ the figures are actually very difficult to _ the figures are actually very difficult to disaggregate - the figures are actually very - difficult to disaggregate because the government— difficult to disaggregate because the government only _ difficult to disaggregate because the government only collects - the government only collects information _ the government only collects information on— the government only collects information on the _ the government only collects information on the licences l the government only collectsj information on the licences it grants. — information on the licences it grants. but— information on the licences it grants, but the _ information on the licences it grants, but the company- information on the licences it - grants, but the company obviously generate _ grants, but the company obviously generate information _ grants, but the company obviously generate information about - grants, but the company obviously generate information about the . grants, but the company obviously. generate information about the value of their— generate information about the value of their contracts. _ generate information about the value of their contracts. but _ generate information about the value of their contracts. but the _ generate information about the value of their contracts. but the uk - of their contracts. but the uk government— of their contracts. but the uk government does— of their contracts. but the uk government does not - of their contracts. but the uk government does not collectl government does not collect information— government does not collect information about _ government does not collect information about the - government does not collect information about the value i government does not collect i information about the value of government does not collect - information about the value of the deliveries — information about the value of the deliveries that— information about the value of the deliveries that are _ information about the value of the deliveries that are made. - information about the value of the deliveries that are made. so - information about the value of thej deliveries that are made. so there is a bandying — deliveries that are made. so there is a bandying around _ deliveries that are made. so there is a bandying around of— deliveries that are made. so there is a bandying around of numbers l deliveries that are made. so there i is a bandying around of numbers and what we _ is a bandying around of numbers and what we see — is a bandying around of numbers and what we see in— is a bandying around of numbers and what we see in this _ is a bandying around of numbers and what we see in this case, _ is a bandying around of numbers and what we see in this case, i— is a bandying around of numbers and what we see in this case, i find - is a bandying around of numbers and what we see in this case, i find it- what we see in this case, i find it very— what we see in this case, i find it very interesting _ what we see in this case, i find it very interesting that _ what we see in this case, i find it very interesting that now- what we see in this case, i find it very interesting that now people | very interesting that now people are falling _ very interesting that now people are falling over— very interesting that now people are falling over themselves _ very interesting that now people are falling over themselves to _ very interesting that now people are falling over themselves to say- falling over themselves to say actually — falling over themselves to say actually the _ falling over themselves to say actually the uk _ falling over themselves to say actually the uk is _ falling over themselves to say actually the uk is a _ falling over themselves to say actually the uk is a relativelyl actually the uk is a relatively small— actually the uk is a relatively small supplier— actually the uk is a relatively small supplier to _

actually the uk is a relatively small supplier to israel. - actually the uk is a relatively- small supplier to israel. compare the other— small supplier to israel. compare the other case _ small supplier to israel. compare the other case of— small supplier to israel. compare the other case of arms _ small supplier to israel. compare the other case of arms sales - small supplier to israel. compare the other case of arms sales to l the other case of arms sales to saudi _ the other case of arms sales to saudi arabia _ the other case of arms sales to saudi arabia. they— the other case of arms sales to saudi arabia. they are - the other case of arms sales to saudi arabia. they are of- the other case of arms sales to saudi arabia. they are of suchl saudi arabia. they are of such magnitude _ saudi arabia. they are of such magnitude that— saudi arabia. they are of such magnitude that we _ saudi arabia. they are of such magnitude that we have - saudi arabia. they are of such magnitude that we have to - saudi arabia. they are of such - magnitude that we have to maintain that relationship. _ magnitude that we have to maintain that relationship. but _ magnitude that we have to maintain that relationship. but now— magnitude that we have to maintain that relationship. but now the - magnitude that we have to maintain that relationship. but now the arms| that relationship. but now the arms are so— that relationship. but now the arms are so small— that relationship. but now the arms are so small it— that relationship. but now the arms are so small it would _ that relationship. but now the arms are so small it would be _ that relationship. but now the arms. are so small it would be meaningless to halt _ are so small it would be meaningless to halt them — are so small it would be meaningless to halt them. the _ are so small it would be meaningless to halt them. the government - are so small it would be meaningless to halt them. the government can't i to halt them. the government can't have it _ to halt them. the government can't have it both— to halt them. the government can't have it both ways. _ to halt them. the government can't have it both ways.— to halt them. the government can't have it both ways. what do you make ofthe have it both ways. what do you make of the issue — have it both ways. what do you make of the issue of— have it both ways. what do you make of the issue of gesture _ have it both ways. what do you make of the issue of gesture politics - of the issue of gesture politics customer i respect a lot of what bob says and i agree with him that netanyahu's rule of israel has been disastrous. but netanyahu's rule of israel has been disastrous. �* , , disastrous. but this is unsustainable - disastrous. but this is unsustainable given l disastrous. but this is . unsustainable given what disastrous. but this is - unsustainable given what is disastrous. but this is _ unsustainable given what is going on. in unsustainable given what is going on. , ., unsustainable given what is going on. , , . , on. in your view because the western leaders have — on. in your view because the western leaders have made _ on. in your view because the western leaders have made it _ on. in your view because the western leaders have made it clear— on. in your view because the western leaders have made it clear what - on. in your view because the western leaders have made it clear what they | leaders have made it clear what they think of benjamin netanyahu, in your view with a move like this make his position more precarious? he is view with a move like this make his position more precarious?- position more precarious? he is in a recarious position more precarious? he is in a precarious position, _ position more precarious? he is in a precarious position, his _ position more precarious? he is in a precarious position, his ratings - position more precarious? he is in a precarious position, his ratings are i precarious position, his ratings are disastrous and there are demonstrations against an almost weekly in israel. we do have an influence on israel, but collectively if the worst signals it is going beyond rhetoric and into actions that ought to make a difference. his war cabinet is quite

fragile. we have to do something, surely. fragile. we have to do something, surel . ~ ., ., .,~ ., surely. what do you make of the argument. _ surely. what do you make of the argument, that _ surely. what do you make of the argument, that if _ surely. what do you make of the argument, that if you _ surely. what do you make of the argument, that if you cut - surely. what do you make of the argument, that if you cut off - surely. what do you make of the i argument, that if you cut off arms, you cut off that relationship? the government _ you cut off that relationship? the government likes to claim that arms sales— government likes to claim that arms sales bring _ government likes to claim that arms sales bring leveraged, _ government likes to claim that arms sales bring leveraged, but— government likes to claim that arms sales bring leveraged, but actually. sales bring leveraged, but actually we have _ sales bring leveraged, but actually we have seen— sales bring leveraged, but actually we have seen it _ sales bring leveraged, but actually we have seen it with— sales bring leveraged, but actually we have seen it with the _ sales bring leveraged, but actually we have seen it with the support l sales bring leveraged, but actually. we have seen it with the support for the saudis, — we have seen it with the support for the saudis, the _ we have seen it with the support for the saudis, the war— we have seen it with the support for the saudis, the war in _ we have seen it with the support for the saudis, the war in yemen, - we have seen it with the support for the saudis, the war in yemen, and. the saudis, the war in yemen, and now with _ the saudis, the war in yemen, and now with the — the saudis, the war in yemen, and now with the war— the saudis, the war in yemen, and now with the war in— the saudis, the war in yemen, and now with the war in gaza _ the saudis, the war in yemen, and now with the war in gaza and - the saudis, the war in yemen, and now with the war in gaza and the l now with the war in gaza and the israelis _ now with the war in gaza and the israelis and — now with the war in gaza and the israelis and that _ now with the war in gaza and the israelis and that level _ now with the war in gaza and the israelis and that level of - now with the war in gaza and the l israelis and that level of influence seems _ israelis and that level of influence seems to— israelis and that level of influence seems to be — israelis and that level of influence seems to be pretty _ israelis and that level of influence seems to be pretty meaningless. i israelis and that level of influence - seems to be pretty meaningless. bob, newsniaht seems to be pretty meaningless. bob, newsnight has — seems to be pretty meaningless. bob, newsnight has heard _ seems to be pretty meaningless. newsnight has heard a tape of the chair of the foreign affairs committee saying that the foreign office has received official, legal advice that israel has broken international law, that the government has not published yet. what do you know of that? i government has not published yet. what do you know of that?- what do you know of that? i don't know anything _ what do you know of that? i don't know anything about _ what do you know of that? i don't know anything about that. - know anything about that. governments don't publish legal advice _ governments don't publish legal advice and i suspect that will be the same — advice and i suspect that will be the same in the future for any government and it is certainly the case now — government and it is certainly the case now. to pick up on anna's point, — case now. to pick up on anna's point, she _ case now. to pick up on anna's point, she talks about missiles and component — point, she talks about missiles and component parts for the f 35,

undoubtedly true. but if we unilaterally decide to pull out of that relationship, then that complicates significantly our defence relationship with the united states _ defence relationship with the united states. 0ne defence relationship with the united states. one other point that has not been touched upon, in the last ten years— been touched upon, in the last ten years we _ been touched upon, in the last ten years we have been under pressure to cut our— years we have been under pressure to cut our relationship with the saudis and to— cut our relationship with the saudis and to cut — cut our relationship with the saudis and to cut a — cut our relationship with the saudis and to cut a relationship with israel— and to cut a relationship with israel and recep tayyip erdogan's turkey— israel and recep tayyip erdogan's turkey when he was called a dictator~ _ turkey when he was called a dictator. it is an important part of the conversation that we have relationships with these countries because _ relationships with these countries because it — relationships with these countries because it is in our own direct national— because it is in our own direct national interest to do so because we get _ national interest to do so because we get a — national interest to do so because we get a lot of intelligence out of israel— we get a lot of intelligence out of israel and — we get a lot of intelligence out of israel and mossad and in turkey and also out _ israel and mossad and in turkey and also out of— israel and mossad and in turkey and also out of the saudis and that helps — also out of the saudis and that helps keep britain was my intro secure — helps keep britain was my intro secure and it helps us to understand and increasingly dangerous world. so, and increasingly dangerous world. so. yes, _ and increasingly dangerous world. so. yes, we — and increasingly dangerous world. so, yes, we should have substance to our principles — so, yes, we should have substance to our principles and we should tread carefully _ our principles and we should tread carefully when it comes to military

and intelligence relationships because we spend a lot of time developing these relationships and they are _ developing these relationships and they are significantly in our national— they are significantly in our national interest and we have to think— national interest and we have to think a — national interest and we have to think a little bit strategically. of course bob is right, intelligence led relationships are crucial. it is two way with israel, we get intelligence from them, they get intelligence from them, they get intelligence from them, they get intelligence from us. but arms sales intelligence from us. but arms sales in the current circumstances, ijust think it is unsustainable. in the current circumstances, i 'ust think it is unsustainablefi think it is unsustainable. there are re orts think it is unsustainable. there are reports civil _ think it is unsustainable. there are reports civil servants _ think it is unsustainable. there are reports civil servants from - think it is unsustainable. there are reports civil servants from the - reports civil servants from the department of trade now concerned about being prosecuted for signing off licences. if israel is taken to the international criminal court. and there are threats they will stop working those contracts. share and there are threats they will stop working those contracts.— working those contracts. are those concerns legitimate? _ working those contracts. are those concerns legitimate? yes, - working those contracts. are those concerns legitimate? yes, and - working those contracts. are those concerns legitimate? yes, and i i working those contracts. are those l concerns legitimate? yes, and i find it remarkable — concerns legitimate? yes, and i find it remarkable that _ concerns legitimate? yes, and i find it remarkable that civil _ concerns legitimate? yes, and i find it remarkable that civil servants - it remarkable that civil servants who are — it remarkable that civil servants who are solid _ it remarkable that civil servants who are solid bureaucratic- who are solid bureaucratic professionals _ who are solid bureaucratic professionals have - who are solid bureaucratic professionals have taken. who are solid bureaucratic. professionals have taken this who are solid bureaucratic- professionals have taken this step, that they— professionals have taken this step, that they are — professionals have taken this step, that they are that _ professionals have taken this step, that they are that worried - professionals have taken this step, that they are that worried about. professionals have taken this step, i that they are that worried about the demands— that they are that worried about the demands being _ that they are that worried about the demands being placed _ that they are that worried about the demands being placed on— that they are that worried about the demands being placed on them -

that they are that worried about the demands being placed on them by. that they are that worried about the . demands being placed on them by the government— demands being placed on them by the government that _ demands being placed on them by the government that they— demands being placed on them by the government that they are _ demands being placed on them by the government that they are now- demands being placed on them by the| government that they are now worried that their— government that they are now worried that their practice _ government that they are now worried that their practice is _ government that they are now worried that their practice is unlawful - government that they are now worried that their practice is unlawful and - that their practice is unlawful and ithink— that their practice is unlawful and i think it — that their practice is unlawful and i think it signals, _ that their practice is unlawful and i think it signals, we _ that their practice is unlawful and i think it signals, we have - that their practice is unlawful and i think it signals, we have seen . that their practice is unlawful and i think it signals, we have seen a| i think it signals, we have seen a letter— i think it signals, we have seen a letter from — i think it signals, we have seen a letter from 130 _ i think it signals, we have seen a letter from 130 mp5, _ i think it signals, we have seen a letter from 130 mp5, we - i think it signals, we have seen a letter from 130 mp5, we have . i think it signals, we have seen a . letter from 130 mp5, we have seen i think it signals, we have seen a - letter from 130 mp5, we have seen a letter _ letter from 130 mp5, we have seen a letter from _ letter from 130 mp5, we have seen a letter from over— letter from 130 mp5, we have seen a letter from over 600 _ letter from 130 mp5, we have seen a letter from over 600 lawyers - letter from 130 mp5, we have seen a letter from over 600 lawyers and - letter from over 600 lawyers and judges. _ letter from over 600 lawyers and judges. we — letter from over 600 lawyers and judges. we have _ letter from over 600 lawyers and judges, we have potential- letter from over 600 lawyers and . judges, we have potential industrial action— judges, we have potential industrial action from — judges, we have potential industrial action from civil— judges, we have potential industrial action from civil servants. _ judges, we have potential industrial action from civil servants. and - judges, we have potential industrial action from civil servants. and all. action from civil servants. and all of this— action from civil servants. and all of this is— action from civil servants. and all of this is off— action from civil servants. and all of this is off the _ action from civil servants. and all of this is off the back— action from civil servants. and all of this is off the back of- action from civil servants. and all of this is off the back of the - of this is off the back of the fortnightly— of this is off the back of the fortnightly protests, - of this is off the back of the fortnightly protests, it - of this is off the back of the fortnightly protests, it is. of this is off the back of the - fortnightly protests, it is protest that has— fortnightly protests, it is protest that has brought _ fortnightly protests, it is protest that has brought us _ fortnightly protests, it is protest that has brought us to _ fortnightly protests, it is protest that has brought us to this - fortnightly protests, it is protestl that has brought us to this point. before _ that has brought us to this point. before we — that has brought us to this point. before we finish, _ that has brought us to this point. before we finish, bob _ that has brought us to this point. before we finish, bob seely, - that has brought us to this point. before we finish, bob seely, i. that has brought us to this point. . before we finish, bob seely, i want to talk about a story that has broken tonight that conservative mp and former minister william wragg has admitted handing over phone numbers of colleagues at westminster to a man he met on grinder because he was compromised, what is your reaction to that? i he was compromised, what is your reaction to that?— reaction to that? i saw the piece. i have great — reaction to that? i saw the piece. i have great sympathy _ reaction to that? i saw the piece. i have great sympathy for _ reaction to that? i saw the piece. i have great sympathy for william, l reaction to that? i saw the piece. i have great sympathy for william, i am sorry— have great sympathy for william, i am sorry he has happened, he's a really— am sorry he has happened, he's a really lovely guy. and to stand up and say _ really lovely guy. and to stand up and say i — really lovely guy. and to stand up and say i am so sorry and i was week takes _ and say i am so sorry and i was week takes quite _ and say i am so sorry and i was week takes quite a — and say i am so sorry and i was week takes quite a strong man. i'm sort of hoping — takes quite a strong man. i'm sort of hoping he hasn't handed my numbers _ of hoping he hasn't handed my numbers. forgiveness is a good thing and sorry— numbers. forgiveness is a good thing and sorry it _ numbers. forgiveness is a good thing

and sorry it happened to him. you often talk about _ and sorry it happened to him. gm, often talk about honey traps and you worry about foreign pressure. this must possibly fall into that particular category.- must possibly fall into that particular category. oh, for sure, es. particular category. oh, for sure, yes- look. _ particular category. oh, for sure, yes- look. it— particular category. oh, for sure, yes. look, it sounds _ particular category. oh, for sure, yes. look, it sounds like - particular category. oh, for sure, yes. look, it sounds like a - particular category. oh, for sure, yes. look, it sounds like a gay i yes. look, it sounds like a gay honey— yes. look, it sounds like a gay honey trap, _ yes. look, it sounds like a gay honey trap, i don't know for sure. it is honey trap, i don't know for sure. it is crude — honey trap, i don't know for sure. it is crude enough to be russian, you would — it is crude enough to be russian, you would expect the chinese to be more _ you would expect the chinese to be more sophisticated, they will people in different ways using economic small— in different ways using economic small rather than some sort of crude attempt _ small rather than some sort of crude attempt to— small rather than some sort of crude attempt to smear or blackmail —— they— attempt to smear or blackmail —— they attract — attempt to smear or blackmail —— they attract people. i'm sorry it happened. it certainly sounds like it and _ happened. it certainly sounds like it and this — happened. it certainly sounds like it and this is not the first. i found — it and this is not the first. i found out— it and this is not the first. i found out last week that my office was targeted by the chinese a couple of years— was targeted by the chinese a couple of years ago. i'm afraid to say this is part— of years ago. i'm afraid to say this is part and — of years ago. i'm afraid to say this is part and parcel of modern political— is part and parcel of modern political life whether it is honey traps _ political life whether it is honey traps or— political life whether it is honey traps or whether it is cyber attacks or whether— traps or whether it is cyber attacks or whether it is some kind or other of phising — or whether it is some kind or other of phising. thank you very much. we have just celebrated

neurodiversity week around the world, an initiative that challenges stereotypes and misconceptions about neurological differences. but do we have the services to improve the lives of people who are neurodiverse? today, the nuffield trust published a report that has found that demand for autism and adhd assessments in england has risen at such a speed and services are simply unable to keep up, suggesting more people are coming forward for diagnosis. here's kate. kate, what's going on? so this data from the nuffield trust confirms what we have known for a while that the number of people waiting for autism assessment has been increasing particularly since the pandemic. it has come from around 17,000 in england in 2019 to more than 170,000 at the end of 2023. we have to be a bit careful because over this time, more providers have been submitting data. evenif providers have been submitting data. even if we strip all that out and we just compare like with like, we can still see this fivefold increase in waiting lists and waiting times have been increasing as well. the average waiting time is about ten months and in one area, it was 2.5 years.-

in one area, it was 2.5 years. these are extraordinary _ in one area, it was 2.5 years. these are extraordinary figures. _ in one area, it was 2.5 years. these are extraordinary figures. what - are extraordinary figures. what about adhd? _ are extraordinary figures. what about adhd? the _ are extraordinary figures. what about adhd? the data - are extraordinary figures. what about adhd? the data is - are extraordinary figures. what about adhd? the data is not i are extraordinary figures. twat about adhd? the data is not kept in the same way, some have waited four months and others years. but demand for support has been rising, the number of people receiving medication for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. more than 50% increase between pre—pandemic and the present day. i should say the biggestjump in prescriptions has been in adults and the biggest rise in autism waiting lists has also been adults. who; rise in autism waiting lists has also been adults.— rise in autism waiting lists has also been adults. why do we think this is happening? _ also been adults. why do we think this is happening? a _ also been adults. why do we think this is happening? a number - also been adults. why do we think this is happening? a number of i this is happening? a number of reasons, this is happening? a number of reasons. we — this is happening? a number of reasons, we know _ this is happening? a number of reasons, we know thankfully i this is happening? a number of| reasons, we know thankfully the stigma once associated with adhd and autism has been somewhat resolved, lots of public figures have come forward with their experiences. chris packham, christy mcguinness and many more. but we have also gained as much —— a much better understanding of neurodiversity and how it looks differently in different groups. autistic women are much often thought to be better at masking their symptoms in public, so there is now a much wider variety of

people coming forward.— people coming forward. some say there is a danger— people coming forward. some say there is a danger of— people coming forward. some sayj there is a danger of neurodiverse. almost like an over correction, what do you say to that? it is almost like an over correction, what do you say to that?— do you say to that? it is certainly true diagnosis _ do you say to that? it is certainly true diagnosis rates _ do you say to that? it is certainly true diagnosis rates are - do you say to that? it is certainly true diagnosis rates are not - do you say to that? it is certainly true diagnosis rates are not the i true diagnosis rates are not the same across the country and there are some academics who would say that over time, these terms have been broadened. and now we refer to such a wide group of people they have become a bit vague. it is also true that for many years, there was an underdiagnosis in many groups like women who did not meet the stereotype that people expected. so part of this is a correction rightfully so to representing those people. rightfully so to representing those eo - le. ., rightfully so to representing those --eole. . ., rightfully so to representing those neale, ., ., , rightfully so to representing those --eole. . ., , . people. kate, thanks very much indeed. let's speak now to three experts on adhd and autism. pippa simou supports women with adhd and herself has the condition. lee chambers is an autistic businessman and advocate. and dr sue smith diagnoses patients with autism. welcome to all of you. cani can ijust begin by saying that both

you, pippa and lee neurodiverse like many in the population. lee, you are 35, when and how was your diagnosis of autism made? it 35, when and how was your diagnosis of autism made?— of autism made? it was made two ears a . o of autism made? it was made two years ago and _ of autism made? it was made two years ago and that _ of autism made? it was made two years ago and that was _ of autism made? it was made two years ago and that was quite - of autism made? it was made two years ago and that was quite a - years ago and that was quite a journey that started with my own son's diagnosis journey and for me, i had to end up going private because of the barriers i've faced. and not many people have the privilege to do that. so i was lucky. with waiting lists as they are today, there is even more challenges for those waiting for a diagnosis that can help them get the support that we need. it’s support that we need. it's interesting _ support that we need. it's interesting because your son is how little? he is now 11. you are aware that something was different. yes. but ou that something was different. yes. iout you didn't _ that something was different. yes. but you didn't see _ that something was different. yes. but you didn't see that _ that something was different. yes but you didn't see that reflected in yourself, so it was quite a journey to get all this assessment done. i would say so. since i have been quite young, i've known i have been different. awareness has increased significantly over the past ten

years and it has got to a point i felt i had to almost go on that journey with my son as well to help him navigate a world that was ever changing. it was that process that also and lightened it within me and got me thinking about my own journey through life and the challenges i faced. iadufe through life and the challenges i faced. ~ ~' ., , through life and the challenges i faced. ~ ., , ,, , faced. we know these assessments, the service is — faced. we know these assessments, the service is not _ faced. we know these assessments, the service is not available to - faced. we know these assessments, the service is not available to so - the service is not available to so many people that need it. but i wonder the impact on having that diagnosis, what has that given you? it was both liberating and frightening. but in a lot of ways, it has allowed me to give myself some forgiveness for my own journey and access some of the support i have needed for some of the things i find challenging and it has allowed me to take the handbrake off in life in many ways and accelerate been more effective at the things i am quite good at is a businessman and entrepreneur, so it has really helped me in a lot of ways to access things i need. you helped me in a lot of ways to access things i need-— helped me in a lot of ways to access things i need. you have adhd and you will also help — things i need. you have adhd and you will also help women _ things i need. you have adhd and you will also help women with _ things i need. you have adhd and you will also help women with adhd, - will also help women with adhd, pippa, so you will be aware of the masking cake was talking about. but

how has the diagnosis impacted your life? like lee, it was a late diagnosis. i life? like lee, it was a late diagnosis-— life? like lee, it was a late diaunosis. . , ., , diagnosis. i was 44 when i was diagnosed _ diagnosis. i was 44 when i was diagnosed and _ diagnosis. i was 44 when i was diagnosed and it _ diagnosis. i was 44 when i was diagnosed and it came - diagnosis. i was 44 when i was diagnosed and it came as - diagnosis. i was 44 when i wasj diagnosed and it came as quite diagnosis. i was 44 when i was l diagnosed and it came as quite a surprise — diagnosed and it came as quite a surprise. my son was diagnosed with adhd_ surprise. my son was diagnosed with adhd and _ surprise. my son was diagnosed with adhd and unlike a lot of women in my position. _ adhd and unlike a lot of women in my position. i_ adhd and unlike a lot of women in my position, i still didn't see it because _ position, i still didn't see it because i_ position, i still didn't see it because i wasn't like him. he was very presenting like a typical boy with adhd. so he was my measure stick, _ with adhd. so he was my measure stick, so _ with adhd. so he was my measure stick, so i — with adhd. so he was my measure stick, so i would have said that i don't _ stick, so i would have said that i don't have — stick, so i would have said that i don't have it. also, i was a professional, i was in teaching and ithought— professional, i was in teaching and i thought that i would know if i had it, i thought that i would know if i had it. right? _ i thought that i would know if i had it, riuht? ., ., ., i thought that i would know if i had it, riht? ., ., ., ~ ., �* it, right? how would i not know? but it, right? how would i not know? but it isn't like breaking _ it, right? how would i not know? but it isn't like breaking your— it, right? how would i not know? but it isn't like breaking your arm. - it isn't like breaking your arm. there are so many different ways it displays. it affects people differently. i wonder what happened to you and changed, did things fall into place? to you and changed, did things fall into lace? ~ , to you and changed, did things fall into lace? �* , , into place? absolutely, they did. just like into place? absolutely, they did. just like lee. _ into place? absolutely, they did. just like lee, i— into place? absolutely, they did. just like lee, i was— into place? absolutely, they did. just like lee, i was had - into place? absolutely, they did. just like lee, i was had a - into place? absolutely, they did. just like lee, i was had a sense i into place? absolutely, they did. i just like lee, i was had a sense of being _ just like lee, i was had a sense of being different and feeling differently and i hear that echoed

back with — differently and i hear that echoed back with the women i work with that that is— back with the women i work with that that is something we all have in common — that is something we all have in common. we have known that, but not what? _ common. we have known that, but not what? , ., ., ~ common. we have known that, but not what? ., , common. we have known that, but not what? , ., , , , what? does that make sense? yes, it does make sense. _ what? does that make sense? yes, it does make sense. doctor, _ what? does that make sense? yes, it does make sense. doctor, you - what? does that make sense? yes, it does make sense. doctor, you have l does make sense. doctor, you have embraced your diagnosis in a sense because it has been liberating, but is there still a terror? we talk about only in the last ten or 15 years that we have been talking about adhd so publicly, for example. i think it is really interesting hearing _ i think it is really interesting hearing your _ i think it is really interesting hearing your narrative - i think it is really interesting i hearing your narrative because i think it is really interesting - hearing your narrative because i think— hearing your narrative because i think that — hearing your narrative because i think that that _ hearing your narrative because i think that that idea _ hearing your narrative because i think that that idea of _ hearing your narrative because i think that that idea of it - hearing your narrative because i think that that idea of it being l think that that idea of it being liberating, _ think that that idea of it being liberating, but _ think that that idea of it being liberating, but also _ think that that idea of it being liberating, but also quite - think that that idea of it being liberating, but also quite a . liberating, but also quite a terrifying _ liberating, but also quite a terrifying concept, - liberating, but also quite a terrifying concept, i- liberating, but also quite a terrifying concept, i think. liberating, but also quite a | terrifying concept, i think it liberating, but also quite a - terrifying concept, i think it has been _ terrifying concept, i think it has been described _ terrifying concept, i think it has been described as _ terrifying concept, i think it has been described as the - terrifying concept, i think it has been described as the public i been described as the public perception— been described as the public perception of— been described as the public perception of adhd - been described as the public perception of adhd and - been described as the public i perception of adhd and autism been described as the public - perception of adhd and autism that has changed. — perception of adhd and autism that has changed. but— perception of adhd and autism that has changed, but i— perception of adhd and autism that has changed, but i think— perception of adhd and autism that has changed, but i think foote - perception of adhd and autism that has changed, but i think foote is. perception of adhd and autism that has changed, but i think foote is a. has changed, but i think foote is a challenge — has changed, but i think foote is a challenge is— has changed, but i think foote is a challenge is that _ has changed, but i think foote is a challenge is that if _ has changed, but i think foote is a challenge is that if you _ has changed, but i think foote is a challenge is that if you are - challenge is that if you are somebody— challenge is that if you are somebody that _ challenge is that if you are somebody that doesn't - challenge is that if you are - somebody that doesn't present is obviously— somebody that doesn't present is obviously autistic, _ somebody that doesn't present is obviously autistic, often - somebody that doesn't present is obviously autistic, often people l obviously autistic, often people will notice _

obviously autistic, often people will notice judge _ obviously autistic, often people will notice judge behaviour- obviously autistic, often people will notice judge behaviour —— i obviously autistic, often people i will notice judge behaviour —— but obviously autistic, often people - will notice judge behaviour —— but i think— will notice judge behaviour —— but i think the _ will notice judge behaviour —— but i think the challenges. _ will notice judge behaviour —— but i think the challenges. they- will notice judge behaviour —— but i think the challenges. they might i think the challenges. they might notice _ think the challenges. they might notice somebody— think the challenges. they might notice somebody doesn't - think the challenges. they might notice somebody doesn't use - think the challenges. they might - notice somebody doesn't use perhaps the same _ notice somebody doesn't use perhaps the same facial— notice somebody doesn't use perhaps the same facial expressions _ notice somebody doesn't use perhaps the same facial expressions and - notice somebody doesn't use perhaps the same facial expressions and they| the same facial expressions and they might— the same facial expressions and they might think— the same facial expressions and they might think they— the same facial expressions and they might think they are _ the same facial expressions and they might think they are being _ the same facial expressions and they might think they are being aloof - the same facial expressions and they might think they are being aloof or. might think they are being aloof or unfriendly— might think they are being aloof or unfriendly or— might think they are being aloof or unfriendly or unkind. _ might think they are being aloof or unfriendly or unkind. and - might think they are being aloof or unfriendly or unkind. and i- might think they are being aloof or unfriendly or unkind. and i think. unfriendly or unkind. and i think for a _ unfriendly or unkind. and i think for a lot— unfriendly or unkind. and i think for a lot of— unfriendly or unkind. and i think for a lot of autistic— unfriendly or unkind. and i think for a lot of autistic people, - for a lot of autistic people, they've _ for a lot of autistic people, they've been _ for a lot of autistic people, they've been through - for a lot of autistic people, they've been through a - for a lot of autistic people, they've been through a lot| for a lot of autistic people, i they've been through a lot of for a lot of autistic people, - they've been through a lot of trauma being _ they've been through a lot of trauma being undiagnosed. _ they've been through a lot of trauma being undiagnosed.— being undiagnosed. which makes it very interesting _ being undiagnosed. which makes it very interesting now _ being undiagnosed. which makes it very interesting now that _ being undiagnosed. which makes it very interesting now that people i being undiagnosed. which makes it| very interesting now that people are coming forward for diagnosis and assessment and the services are not there, or at least the services are so incredibly patchy. was this just because itjust wasn't so incredibly patchy. was this just because it just wasn't a so incredibly patchy. was this just because itjust wasn't a priority for the nhs or that it was just too difficult to work out all the different services that would be needed? ., , ., , different services that would be needed? ., ,., , ., needed? the reasons for the challenges — needed? the reasons for the challenges are _ needed? the reasons for the challenges are going - needed? the reasons for the challenges are going to - needed? the reasons for the challenges are going to be i needed? the reasons for the - challenges are going to be really complex— challenges are going to be really complex and _ challenges are going to be really complex and multifaceted. - challenges are going to be really complex and multifaceted. i- challenges are going to be reallyi complex and multifaceted. i think challenges are going to be really- complex and multifaceted. i think in terms _ complex and multifaceted. i think in terms of— complex and multifaceted. i think in terms of accessing _ complex and multifaceted. i think in terms of accessing a _ complex and multifaceted. i think in terms of accessing a diagnosis, - complex and multifaceted. i think in terms of accessing a diagnosis, it. terms of accessing a diagnosis, it is very— terms of accessing a diagnosis, it is very variable _ terms of accessing a diagnosis, it is very variable throughout - terms of accessing a diagnosis, it is very variable throughout the i is very variable throughout the country — is very variable throughout the country it _ is very variable throughout the country it is—

is very variable throughout the country. it is really— is very variable throughout the | country. it is really challenging for services _ country. it is really challenging for services to _ country. it is really challenging for services to find _ country. it is really challenging for services to find qualified i for services to find qualified staff, — for services to find qualified staff, experienced - for services to find qualified staff, experienced staff, - for services to find qualified staff, experienced staff, it. for services to find qualified i staff, experienced staff, it is for services to find qualified - staff, experienced staff, it is not easy— staff, experienced staff, it is not easy and — staff, experienced staff, it is not easy and i— staff, experienced staff, it is not easy and i think _ staff, experienced staff, it is not easy and i think that _ staff, experienced staff, it is not easy and i think that is _ staff, experienced staff, it is not. easy and i think that is something that is— easy and i think that is something that is often — easy and i think that is something that is often misunderstood. - easy and i think that is something that is often misunderstood. andl easy and i think that is something | that is often misunderstood. and i think— that is often misunderstood. and i think probably _ that is often misunderstood. and i think probably the _ that is often misunderstood. and i think probably the kind _ that is often misunderstood. and i think probably the kind of- think probably the kind of intersections— think probably the kind of intersections that - think probably the kind of intersections that were i think probably the kind of. intersections that were being described _ intersections that were being described that _ intersections that were being described that not _ intersections that were being described that not realising l intersections that were being i described that not realising how different — described that not realising how different female _ described that not realising how different female presentation i described that not realising how. different female presentation was come _ different female presentation was come in _ different female presentation was come in the — different female presentation was come in the intersections - different female presentation was| come in the intersections between adhd_ come in the intersections between adhd and — come in the intersections between adhd and autism _ come in the intersections between adhd and autism that _ come in the intersections between. adhd and autism that really confuses things _ adhd and autism that really confuses things the _ adhd and autism that really confuses things. the issues _ adhd and autism that really confuses things. the issues about _ adhd and autism that really confuses things. the issues about the - adhd and autism that really confuses things. the issues about the way- adhd and autism that really confuses things. the issues about the way in i things. the issues about the way in which _ things. the issues about the way in which different— things. the issues about the way in which different racial— things. the issues about the way in which different racial groups - things. the issues about the way in which different racial groups might| which different racial groups might be understood, _ which different racial groups might be understood, gender— which different racial groups might be understood, gender issues. - which different racial groups might be understood, gender issues. it l which different racial groups might i be understood, gender issues. it has kind of— be understood, gender issues. it has kind of been— be understood, gender issues. it has kind of been a— be understood, gender issues. it has kind of been a challenge _ be understood, gender issues. it has kind of been a challenge for- kind of been a challenge for everybody _ kind of been a challenge for everybody and _ kind of been a challenge for everybody and has - kind of been a challenge for everybody and has meant i kind of been a challenge for. everybody and has meant that kind of been a challenge for- everybody and has meant that he can't _ everybody and has meant that he can't kind — everybody and has meant that he can't kind of— everybody and has meant that he can't kind of magic— everybody and has meant that he can't kind of magic up— everybody and has meant that he can't kind of magic up quality- everybody and has meant that hei can't kind of magic up quality staff quickly _ can't kind of magic up quality staff cuickl . ., .. �* can't kind of magic up quality staff cuickl. ., �* �* ,, quickly. you can't. but presumably, ou are quickly. you can't. but presumably, you are diagnosed _ quickly. you can't. but presumably, you are diagnosed late, _ quickly. you can't. but presumably, you are diagnosed late, but - you are diagnosed late, but presumably, the earlier the diagnosis, the better. so in a way, does the nhs have to say that right now, right across the country, we

are going to prioritise children, and i'm sure they do to a certain extent? i and i'm sure they do to a certain extent? ~ , , and i'm sure they do to a certain extent? ~' , , , extent? ithink, yes, it is complicated _ extent? ithink, yes, it is complicated to _ extent? ithink, yes, it is complicated to say. - extent? ithink, yes, it is complicated to say. it - extent? ithink, yes, it is complicated to say. it is. extent? i think, yes, it is - complicated to say. it is difficult, inasmuch— complicated to say. it is difficult, inasmuch as i see people from 18 to 80 odd _ inasmuch as i see people from 18 to 80 odd. �* , ., ., inasmuch as i see people from 18 to 80 odd. �* i. ., i. inasmuch as i see people from 18 to 800dd.�* ., 3:1, 80 odd. and if you are in your 80s and ou 80 odd. and if you are in your 80s and you are _ 80 odd. and if you are in your 80s and you are about _ 80 odd. and if you are in your 80s and you are about to _ 80 odd. and if you are in your 80s and you are about to need - 80 odd. and if you are in your 80s| and you are about to need perhaps more _ and you are about to need perhaps more physical— and you are about to need perhaps more physical care _ and you are about to need perhaps more physical care and _ and you are about to need perhaps more physical care and you - and you are about to need perhaps more physical care and you are - more physical care and you are wanting — more physical care and you are wanting to _ more physical care and you are wanting to be _ more physical care and you are wanting to be supported - more physical care and you are wanting to be supported well. more physical care and you are i wanting to be supported well to a more _ wanting to be supported well to a more complex— wanting to be supported well to a more complex period _ wanting to be supported well to a more complex period of- wanting to be supported well to a more complex period of your- wanting to be supported well to a j more complex period of your life, wanting to be supported well to a i more complex period of your life, it is really _ more complex period of your life, it is really hard — more complex period of your life, it is really hard to _ more complex period of your life, it is really hard to say, _ more complex period of your life, it is really hard to say, well, - is really hard to say, well, actually _ is really hard to say, well, actually, that _ is really hard to say, well, actually, that person's - is really hard to say, well, - actually, that person's support isn't _ actually, that person's support isn't important. _ actually, that person's support isn't important.— actually, that person's support isn't important. no, of course not. but isn't important. no, of course not. iout presumably. — isn't important. no, of course not. but presumably, shall _ isn't important. no, of course not. but presumably, shall we - isn't important. no, of course not. but presumably, shall we say - isn't important. no, of course not. but presumably, shall we say that| but presumably, shall we say that actually, some diagnosis and some assessment is more as it were urgent than others?— than others? yes, i think that is fair to than others? yes, i think that is fairto say- _ than others? yes, i think that is fair to say. we _ than others? yes, i think that is fair to say. we should _ than others? yes, i think that is fair to say. we should point - than others? yes, i think that is fair to say. we should point out| fair to say. we should point out these things — fair to say. we should point out these things run _ fair to say. we should point out these things run in _ fair to say. we should point out these things run in families - fair to say. we should point outj these things run in families and they— these things run in families and they are — these things run in families and they are generational. so those women — they are generational. so those women are parenting these children, so it is— women are parenting these children, so it is really important that those

women _ so it is really important that those women get the support they need so they can _ women get the support they need so they can be — women get the support they need so they can be their best selves, fully understanding who they were made to be and _ understanding who they were made to be and not _ understanding who they were made to be and not who they thought they should _ be and not who they thought they should be. in this very difficult situation — should be. in this very difficult situation of raising these children. it's interesting because we have just had world neurodiversity awareness week. you talk about this openly, you are an advocate for adhd and you talk about your autism and presumably, it impacts you having conversations in business and i suppose it might help put people at ease to think that there are people, all sorts of different people in all sorts of different businesses and you never know and the trouble is we prejudge? i you never know and the trouble is we ”re'ude? ., you never know and the trouble is we ”re'ude? . ,, ., . . prejudge? i am passionate about t in: to prejudge? i am passionate about trying to be _ prejudge? i am passionate about trying to be the _ prejudge? i am passionate about trying to be the role _ prejudge? i am passionate about trying to be the role model - prejudge? i am passionate about trying to be the role model i - prejudge? i am passionate about i trying to be the role modeli didn't trying to be the role model i didn't have as a young black autistic boy and i think that so often, especially for those in different global majority groups. we are more likely to bejudged in certain global majority groups. we are more likely to be judged in certain ways, as trouble or not parented well. and sadly, i see that in my everyday life. now i am trying to do lots of

working workplaces to ensure people know with small adjustments and accommodation, it can make a significant difference notjust to neuro divergent employees, but to everyone. i neuro divergent employees, but to eve one. ., ., i. neuro divergent employees, but to eve one. ., ., ., ., everyone. i wonder what you want not 'ust from everyone. i wonder what you want not just from the — everyone. i wonder what you want not just from the nhs, _ everyone. i wonder what you want not just from the nhs, but _ everyone. i wonder what you want not just from the nhs, but society, - everyone. i wonder what you want not just from the nhs, but society, but i just from the nhs, but society, but first, what do you want from the nhs? ., ,, nhs? from the nhs, i feelthere needs to be _ nhs? from the nhs, i feelthere needs to be more _ nhs? from the nhs, i feelthere needs to be more consideration i needs to be more consideration around — needs to be more consideration around how girls and women present with adhd _ around how girls and women present with adhd and more interrogation of our symptoms. so we will often if we are talking _ our symptoms. so we will often if we are talking about our adhd, the clinician— are talking about our adhd, the clinician might hear society, depression because it is for a woman, _ depression because it is for a woman, that seems to be an easier go to then _ woman, that seems to be an easier go to then really — woman, that seems to be an easier go to then really getting under the surface — to then really getting under the surface and exploring what is going on. surface and exploring what is going on so— surface and exploring what is going on so i_ surface and exploring what is going on. so i would like women to be listened — on. so i would like women to be listened to— on. so i would like women to be listened to and i feel in my case, i was dismissed by the nhs and i hear many— was dismissed by the nhs and i hear many women, that is still happening. there _ many women, that is still happening. there seems to be a very high bar for what _ there seems to be a very high bar for what the nhs consider impairment

and that— for what the nhs consider impairment and that is— for what the nhs consider impairment and that is part of the criteria, but i _ and that is part of the criteria, but i feel— and that is part of the criteria, but i feel that is false economy if they are — but i feel that is false economy if they are waiting for me to get addicted — they are waiting for me to get addicted to something first or self—harm or an eating disorder. it would _ self—harm or an eating disorder. it would be _ self—harm or an eating disorder. it would be much better to treat me now and support— would be much better to treat me now and support me now and then i will live my— and support me now and then i will live my better life and i won't be a drain— live my better life and i won't be a drain on— live my better life and i won't be a drain on their resources. sol live my better life and i won't be a drain on their resources. so i would really— drain on their resources. so i would really like _ drain on their resources. so i would really like them to listen to women. ialways— really like them to listen to women. i always tell women if their instinct— i always tell women if their instinct is telling them that is something going on, they will be right _ something going on, they will be right. they might not be absolutely i’i l ht right. they might not be absolutely right it _ right. they might not be absolutely right it is _ right. they might not be absolutely right it is adhd and it might be autism — right it is adhd and it might be autism or— right it is adhd and it might be autism or something else, but to keep— autism or something else, but to keep knocking at that door because there _ keep knocking at that door because there will— keep knocking at that door because there will be an answer.— there will be an answer. thank you all very indeed. _ four years ago today, keir starmer became the leader of the labour party in the first round of voting, beating rebecca long bailey and lisa nandy decisively, and consigning thejeremy corbyn era to the political history books. starmer wanted a clean slate, but if, as the most recent "mega" opinion polls suggest, labour wins as many as 468 out of westminster�*s 650

seats, will that signify that the electorate is energised by starmer�*s programme for power, or that you can be lucky with your enemies? the tories — government and party — have been mired in internecine warfare, presided over a cost—of—living crisis, and failed to get to grips with immigration. for keir starmer, the much—vaunted green prosperity plan all but crashed and burned, in what the guardian called "the mother of all u—turns," attributing the phrase to someone in "team labour". would such a whopping labour backbench fall into line or, after 1a years in the wilderness, would those mps be desperate to flex their muscles? before we discuss that, here's a reminder of how it's been going for sir keir. i'm from the national council for civil liberties, not a party organiser, and what we're very concerned about is the approach of the police. if the police decide to issue me with a fixed penalty notice, i would, of course, do the right thing and step down. applause.

under my leadership, we will engage constructively with the government, not opposition for opposition's sake. thank you very much. thank you. thank you so much. i was very disappointed injeremy corbyn's statement, and appropriate action has been taken, which i fully support. # tomorrow, tomorrow comes today...# true democracy is citizen—led. we've just done it! cheering. westminster. wandsworth. we won wandsworth. they've been saying that for years, "you'll never take wandsworth". cheering. # ..when tomorrow, tomorrow comes today. ..# to discuss keir starmer�*s leadership of the labour party thus far i'm joined by tom baldwin, author of a biography of the labour leader

and former labour adviser, and rosa prince, deputy editor of politico uk and author of comrade corbyn, a biography of starmer�*s predecessor. good evening to you both. tom baldwin, when he went for the leadership he made ten pledges on his website. they are still there but they are not quite as they are now, looking back. we have got the green prosperity, renationalisation of water, 5% for the top earners in the country in terms of income tax. things have come and gone in the last four years. things have come and gone in the last four years-— last four years. yes, i think some ofthe last four years. yes, i think some of the bits— last four years. yes, i think some of the bits of— last four years. yes, i think some of the bits of the _ last four years. yes, i think some of the bits of the ten _ last four years. yes, i think some of the bits of the ten pledges - last four years. yes, i think some of the bits of the ten pledges are | of the bits of the ten pledges are still there if you look closely enough and people look for what is gone rather than what is still there. of course things have changed. keir starmer talks about how you have had covid and you have

had liz truss and if you don't change when the facts change, you are not really like most rational people. it is something we expect of political leaders which we don't expect of ourselves, which is to stick to everything they said, come what may. did stick to everything they said, come what ma . , ., ~ .,, stick to everything they said, come whatma., .. , what may. did he make those changes to net what may. did he make those changes to get elected — what may. did he make those changes to get elected as _ what may. did he make those changes to get elected as labour _ what may. did he make those changes to get elected as labour leader? - to get elected as labour leader? that is what he was promising the party. i that is what he was promising the .a . ., �* 4' that is what he was promising the party. i don't think he could redict party. i don't think he could predict ukraine _ party. i don't think he could predict ukraine or - party. i don't think he could predict ukraine or liz - party. i don't think he could predict ukraine or liz truss. party. i don't think he could - predict ukraine or liz truss. there are some people who voted for keir starmer because of the ten pledges and they have every right to be fed up and they have every right to be fed up and i understand that. but there is also trust with a wider group of people. if you go to the election saying that you are going to spend all this money which you know you can't spend, and do all these things would you know you can't do, you will not build trust with the electorate and that is the choice he has made. ., ., , , electorate and that is the choice he has made. . . , , , has made. so, what happens? is it ossible has made. so, what happens? is it possible keir— has made. so, what happens? is it

possible keir starmer _ has made. so, what happens? is it possible keir starmer government | has made. so, what happens? is it - possible keir starmer government and then he thinks of a few things that won't rock the boat? i(eir then he thinks of a few things that won't rock the boat? keir starmer's trick throughout _ won't rock the boat? keir starmer's trick throughout his _ won't rock the boat? keir starmer's trick throughout his career - won't rock the boat? keir starmer's trick throughout his career has - won't rock the boat? keir starmer's trick throughout his career has to l trick throughout his career has to be incredibly single—mindedly focused — be incredibly single—mindedly focused on the next task in hand. gr focused on the next task in hand. ©zii�*r the focused on the next task in hand. the next keir focused on the next task in hand. (1) the next keir starmer? focused on the next task in hand. or the next keir starmer? indeed. - focused on the next task in hand. or. the next keir starmer? indeed. those ledaes the next keir starmer? indeed. those pledges were — the next keir starmer? indeed. those pledges were to _ the next keir starmer? indeed. those pledges were to get — the next keir starmer? indeed. those pledges were to get him _ the next keir starmer? indeed. those pledges were to get him through - the next keir starmer? indeed. those pledges were to get him through the i pledges were to get him through the leadership election and job done. it leadership election and job done. [it was a leadership election and job done. it was a sleight of hand. i think - leadership election and job done. it was a sleight of hand. i think he i was a sleight of hand. i think he set himself— was a sleight of hand. i think he set himself some _ was a sleight of hand. i think he set himself some homework - was a sleight of hand. i think he | set himself some homework and completes it and takes it off. now hisjob _ completes it and takes it off. now hisjob is — completes it and takes it off. now hisjob is to— completes it and takes it off. now hisjob is to get into government and so _ hisjob is to get into government and so far— hisjob is to get into government and so far he has been dazzling successful as far as the polls are concerned — successful as far as the polls are concerned. the most important thing thatjeremy_ concerned. the most important thing thatjeremy corbyn and concerned. the most important thing that jeremy corbyn and ed miliband found _ that jeremy corbyn and ed miliband found to _ that jeremy corbyn and ed miliband found to the course is to win the election— found to the course is to win the election and to get into the government and he is doing brilliantly, it would seem, at that. what _ brilliantly, it would seem, at that. what happens when he is prime minister? — what happens when he is prime minister? that is the question. | minister? that is the question. i was minister? that is the question. was saying minister? that is the question. i was saying earlier you could be lucky with your enemy and in these straightened times for the

conservatives, is actually the best policy to say as little as possible? i am not sure i accept the premise of the question. he spent last year setting out five missions about what he wanted to do in government and the media asked him questions about all other things apart from the five missions and at the end of it they said we don't know what you want to do. , .,, , , , ., said we don't know what you want to do. the green prosperity plan was front and centre, _ do. the green prosperity plan was front and centre, it _ do. the green prosperity plan was front and centre, it was _ do. the green prosperity plan was i front and centre, it was everywhere, and itjust disappeared. 0bviously and itjust disappeared. obviously we have still got the roots of it, but not the flowers or anything else. people put a lot of emphasis on the single number, 28 billion, this was not a policy, this number. in 2021 a big number was announced, in 2021 a big number was announced, i don't think that is good politics. every time they went into a tv

interview, all they were talking about would be the 28 billion rather than what they wanted to do by 2030. there are a lot of policies are still there if you want to talk about them.— still there if you want to talk about them. ~ ., , ., ~' about them. where do you think the dancers for about them. where do you think the dangers for a _ about them. where do you think the dangers for a possible _ about them. where do you think the dangers for a possible steer - about them. where do you think the dangers for a possible steer calmerl dangers for a possible steer calmer government lie? he might have a massive backbench and there are differences with scotland over different policies in scotland, and you might not as well in scotland as he thinks he might. where will the danger lie? it is 1a years. a lot of people on the left are itching to do things that he might not think it is prudent to do. the things that he might not think it is prudent to de— things that he might not think it is prudent to do. the party is broadly uuite prudent to do. the party is broadly quite disciplined _ prudent to do. the party is broadly quite disciplined at _ prudent to do. the party is broadly quite disciplined at the _ prudent to do. the party is broadly quite disciplined at the moment. l prudent to do. the party is broadly i quite disciplined at the moment. we have had _ quite disciplined at the moment. we have had gaza where there were problems — have had gaza where there were problems. and missteps. there appears — problems. and missteps. there appears to be a level of affection routine _ appears to be a level of affection routine leader and his mps. if you

spoke _ routine leader and his mps. if you spoke to— routine leader and his mps. if you spoke to the 2007 intake, they were loyal to— spoke to the 2007 intake, they were loyal to the — spoke to the 2007 intake, they were loyal to the core. that was perhaps maybe _ loyal to the core. that was perhaps maybe how — loyal to the core. that was perhaps maybe how he got to the leadership and where _ maybe how he got to the leadership and where he was before. you maybe how he got to the leadership and where he was before.— and where he was before. you can talk about — and where he was before. you can talk about figures _ and where he was before. you can talk about figures and _ and where he was before. you can talk about figures and all- and where he was before. you can talk about figures and all that, - and where he was before. you can| talk about figures and all that, but why was he not surefooted over that? i think he has made mistakes and gaza was one of them. he knows a lot about foreign policy and has a lot of foreign policy experience, but that was a gap for him. it says a lot about his leadership over the last four years. when he does screw up last four years. when he does screw up his things, how do i correct this and make sure it doesn't happen again. one of the interesting things about him, which i talk a lot about in my book, is how he seeks to rectify problems. there is this analogy of keir starmer that you see analogy of keir starmer that you see a man standing alone in a field and

he moves forward step and he takes two steps to the left, one step back and two steps forward and you think, what is he doing? he was crossing a minefield. we are used to a politician charging forward and getting blown up. he is looking at how to get to the other side. shifter how to get to the other side. after a very short _ how to get to the other side. after a very short period _ how to get to the other side. after a very short period of— how to get to the other side. after a very short period of time, - how to get to the other side. after a very short period of time, if he doesn't deliverfour a very short period of time, if he doesn't deliver four people, then it is not going to be such a rosy story for him. i wonder if you think there is ever going to be such a thing as starmerism. is ever going to be such a thing as starmerism— is ever going to be such a thing as starmerism. ., , ., .,, ., , starmerism. no, he is almost a rishi sunak. his view _ starmerism. no, he is almost a rishi sunak. his view of _ starmerism. no, he is almost a rishi sunak. his view of himself _ starmerism. no, he is almost a rishi sunak. his view of himself is - starmerism. no, he is almost a rishi sunak. his view of himself is he - starmerism. no, he is almost a rishi sunak. his view of himself is he is i sunak. his view of himself is he is a good _ sunak. his view of himself is he is a good guy — sunak. his view of himself is he is a good guy. he is probably a good luy a good guy. he is probably a good guy and _ a good guy. he is probably a good guy and he — a good guy. he is probably a good guy and he is the right man and he thinks _ guy and he is the right man and he thinks he _ guy and he is the right man and he thinks he can pull the levers of state _ thinks he can pull the levers of state better than other people. i don't _ state better than other people. i don't think he has a big vision for what _ don't think he has a big vision for what he — don't think he has a big vision for what he should do.—

don't think he has a big vision for what he should do. thank you very much indeed- _ thank you very much indeed. so let's take a look at some of the front pages.