vennells in may, three officer paula vennells in may, three daysin officer paula vennells in may, three days in may. the penultimate week of may, i believe. we want to hearfrom you, 85058 on the texts. you can call us as well. your chance to express solidarity, ask any questions and tell us your story, if your story hasn't yet been told. in that drama, to remind you, alan bates played by the amazing toby jones was that we have alan bates himself at ten o'clock. right now on the line to speak to and hear from, seema misra. hello.— the line to speak to and hear from, seema misra. hello.- nice i the line to speak to and hear from, seema misra. hello. hello. nice to talk again- — seema misra. hello. hello. nice to talk again- just _ seema misra. hello. hello. nice to talk again. just to _ seema misra. hello. hello. nice to talk again. just to remind - seema misra. hello. hello nice to talk again. just to remind people, pregnant with your second child when you were convicted of false accounting and theft at your branch in west byfleet. peter collins as well, a subpostmaster for 3h years in blackpool, had to borrow £19,000 from a customer. still waiting for

news on the claim. tim from rochdale. prosecuted in 2010. we want to hear from you and you can exchange your views and feelings with each other as well. tim, how do you feel about today? i am with each other as well. tim, how do you feel about today?— with each other as well. tim, how do you feel about today? i am very much lookin: you feel about today? i am very much looking forward _ you feel about today? i am very much looking forward to _ you feel about today? i am very much looking forward to seeing _ you feel about today? i am very much looking forward to seeing what - you feel about today? i am very much looking forward to seeing what alan l looking forward to seeing what alan has to say. every of us would agree we wouldn't be here today without the effort he put in. what we wouldn't be here today without the effort he put in.— the effort he put in. what do you want him to _ the effort he put in. what do you want him to say? _ the effort he put in. what do you want him to say? i _ the effort he put in. what do you want him to say? i expect - the effort he put in. what do you want him to say? i expect him i the effort he put in. what do you want him to say? i expect him to the effort he put in. what do you i want him to say? i expect him to be his usual honest _ want him to say? i expect him to be his usual honest and _ want him to say? i expect him to be his usual honest and forthright i his usual honest and forthright self. he is at the centre of this, he knows exactly how badly both post office and the government has behaved in the last 20 years. seema misra, behaved in the last 20 years. seema misra. come — behaved in the last 20 years. seema misra. come in _ behaved in the last 20 years. seema misra, come in here. _ behaved in the last 20 years. seema misra, come in here. yeah, - behaved in the last 20 years. seema misra, come in here. yeah, lookingl misra, come in here. yeah, looking forward, definitely. _ misra, come in here. yeah, looking forward, definitely. and _ misra, come in here. yeah, looking forward, definitely. and the - misra, come in here. yeah, looking forward, definitely. and the next i forward, definitely. and the next phase _ forward, definitely. and the next phase of — forward, definitely. and the next phase of the inquiry starting as well, _ phase of the inquiry starting as well, so — phase of the inquiry starting as well, so we are looking forward to see what — well, so we are looking forward to see what other officials have to sex _ see what other officials have to sa . �* for

see what other officials have to say-_ for me. - see what other officials have to say._ for me, he i see what other officials have to i say._ for me, he knows say. and peter? for me, he knows what he's after. _ say. and peter? for me, he knows what he's after. we _ say. and peter? for me, he knows what he's after. we know - say. and peter? for me, he knows what he's after. we know the i say. and peter? for me, he knows i what he's after. we know the people who have _ what he's after. we know the people who have let — what he's after. we know the people who have let us _ what he's after. we know the people who have let us down. _ what he's after. we know the people who have let us down. he _ what he's after. we know the people who have let us down. he knows- what he's after. we know the peoplel who have let us down. he knows that as well_ who have let us down. he knows that as well and _ who have let us down. he knows that as well and he — who have let us down. he knows that as well and he is— who have let us down. he knows that as well and he is gunning _ who have let us down. he knows that as well and he is gunning for- who have let us down. he knows that as well and he is gunning for them. l as well and he is gunning for them. what _ as well and he is gunning for them. what are _ as well and he is gunning for them. what are the — as well and he is gunning for them. what are the big _ as well and he is gunning for them. what are the big questions - as well and he is gunning for them. what are the big questions that i as well and he is gunning for them. | what are the big questions that you want answered in this next phase of the inquiry?— want answered in this next phase of theinaui ? , , ., the inquiry? somebody said before as well, at the inquiry? somebody said before as well. at least — the inquiry? somebody said before as well, at least people _ the inquiry? somebody said before as well, at least people are _ the inquiry? somebody said before as well, at least people are coming i well, at least people are coming forward — well, at least people are coming forward from the officials. they need _ forward from the officials. they need to — forward from the officials. they need to be genuine and say truthfully, they say they want to assist _ truthfully, they say they want to assist the — truthfully, they say they want to assist the inquiry and all that, and the only— assist the inquiry and all that, and the only way they can assist is by saying _ the only way they can assist is by saying the — the only way they can assist is by saying the truth and not forgetting everything, just saying the truth. what _ everything, just saying the truth. what is _ everything, just saying the truth. what is the lasting effect of all this on you, seema? it is horrible. i was sentenced _ this on you, seema? it is horrible. i was sentenced on _ this on you, seema? it is horrible. i was sentenced on my _ this on you, seema? it is horrible. i was sentenced on my oldest's i this on you, seema? it is horrible. i i was sentenced on my oldest's tenth birthday, _ i was sentenced on my oldest's tenth birthday, and i was eight weeks pregnant — birthday, and i was eight weeks pregnant. it was horrible. the prison— pregnant. it was horrible. the prison hit— pregnant. it was horrible. the prison hit i_ pregnant. it was horrible. the prison bit i still can't get over. justice — prison bit i still can't get over. justice for— prison bit i still can't get over. justice for me will definitely be getting — justice for me will definitely be getting proper compensation for everybody but at the same time proper— everybody but at the same time proper accountability so that each

and every — proper accountability so that each and every person responsible, the authorities— and every person responsible, the authorities or whoever, we need to put them _ authorities or whoever, we need to put them behind bars.— authorities or whoever, we need to put them behind bars. when you were in rison, put them behind bars. when you were in prison. and — put them behind bars. when you were in prison. and a _ put them behind bars. when you were in prison, and a lot _ put them behind bars. when you were in prison, and a lot of _ put them behind bars. when you were in prison, and a lot of us _ put them behind bars. when you were in prison, and a lot of us find - put them behind bars. when you were in prison, and a lot of us find it - in prison, and a lot of us find it difficult to get our heads around this, having covered many miscarriage ofjustice stories over the years, but they were in that situation, in prison, what a surreal situation, in prison, what a surreal situation to be in. what were you thinking everyday when you woke up? it was horrible. until i got sent to prison— it was horrible. until i got sent to prison i_ it was horrible. until i got sent to prison i had — it was horrible. until i got sent to prison i had faith in the justice system — prison i had faith in the justice system i_ prison i had faith in the justice system. i thought, prison i had faith in the justice system. ithought, why prison i had faith in the justice system. i thought, why would i go to prison— system. i thought, why would i go to prison for— system. i thought, why would i go to prison for a _ system. i thought, why would i go to prison for a crime i never committed? but everything collapsed when i _ committed? but everything collapsed when i had 15 months imprisonment. if i when i had 15 months imprisonment. if i hadnt— when i had 15 months imprisonment. if i hadn't been pregnant with my second _ if i hadn't been pregnant with my second child i would have killed myself— second child i would have killed myself in — second child i would have killed myself in prison, that's for sure. it's myself in prison, that's for sure. it's a _ myself in prison, that's for sure. it's a shame, _ myself in prison, that's for sure. it's a shame, being with me, going to prison — it's a shame, being with me, going to prison. the same for my husband, if he didn't— to prison. the same for my husband, if he didn't have the eldest to look after. _ if he didn't have the eldest to look after. he _ if he didn't have the eldest to look after, he would have killed himself. it's after, he would have killed himself. it's the _ after, he would have killed himself. it's the kids— after, he would have killed himself. it's the kids that kept us alive. my

it's the kids that kept us alive. goodness it's the kids that kept us alive. iji goodness me, it's the kids that kept us alive. m goodness me, you it's the kids that kept us alive. m1 goodness me, you were in it's the kids that kept us alive. m1: goodness me, you were in those depths. i goodness me, you were in those de ths. ., �* goodness me, you were in those deths. ., �* ~ ., goodness me, you were in those deths. ~ ., ., goodness me, you were in those deths. ., �* ~ ., ., goodness me, you were in those deths. ~ ., ., depths. i don't know how you could co -e with depths. i don't know how you could cope with that. _ depths. i don't know how you could cope with that, considering - depths. i don't know how you could cope with that, considering all i depths. i don't know how you could cope with that, considering all of i cope with that, considering all of you that — cope with that, considering all of you that went _ cope with that, considering all of you that went to _ cope with that, considering all of you that went to prison - cope with that, considering all of you that went to prison were i you that went to prison were innocent _ you that went to prison were innocent people. _ you that went to prison were innocent people. i— you that went to prison were innocent people. i think- you that went to prison were innocent people. i think thel innocent people. i think the authorities, _ innocent people. i think the authorities, paula - innocent people. i think the authorities, paula vennells| innocent people. i think the l authorities, paula vennells in particular. _ authorities, paula vennells in particular. i_ authorities, paula vennells in particular, i don't— authorities, paula vennells in particular, i don't think - authorities, paula vennells in particular, i don't think they. authorities, paula vennells in i particular, i don't think they will particular, idon't think they will ever— particular, idon't think they will ever get— particular, idon't think they will ever get their— particular, i don't think they will ever get their heads _ particular, i don't think they will ever get their heads around i particular, i don't think they willi ever get their heads around this, because — ever get their heads around this, because they _ ever get their heads around this, because they can't _ ever get their heads around this, because they can't understand i ever get their heads around this, i because they can't understand what you went _ because they can't understand what you went through _ because they can't understand what you went through. i _ because they can't understand what you went through. i can't _ because they can't understand whatl you went through. i can't understand myself _ you went through. i can't understand myself and — you went through. ican't understand myself and as— you went through. i can't understand myself. and as an _ you went through. i can't understand myself. and as an ex _ you went through. i can't understand myself. and as an ex magistrate, i. myself. and as an ex magistrate, i have _ myself. and as an ex magistrate, i have visited — myself. and as an ex magistrate, i have visited prisons, _ myself. and as an ex magistrate, i have visited prisons, i— myself. and as an ex magistrate, i have visited prisons, i know- myself. and as an ex magistrate, i have visited prisons, i know what i myself. and as an ex magistrate, i| have visited prisons, i know what it is like _ have visited prisons, i know what it is like in _ have visited prisons, i know what it is like in prison. _ have visited prisons, i know what it is like in prison. to— have visited prisons, i know what it is like in prison. to see _ have visited prisons, i know what it is like in prison. to see innocent i is like in prison. to see innocent people _ is like in prison. to see innocent people going _ is like in prison. to see innocent people going to _ is like in prison. to see innocent people going to prison _ is like in prison. to see innocent people going to prison for- people going to prison for something. _ people going to prison for something, a _ people going to prison for something, a crime - people going to prison for something, a crime they. people going to prison for. something, a crime they did people going to prison for- something, a crime they did not commit, — something, a crime they did not commit, and _ something, a crime they did not commit, and couldn't— something, a crime they did not commit, and couldn't get- something, a crime they did not commit, and couldn't get the i commit, and couldn't get the evidence _ commit, and couldn't get the evidence to _ commit, and couldn't get the evidence to prove _ commit, and couldn't get the evidence to prove their- commit, and couldn't get the i evidence to prove their innocence, this is— evidence to prove their innocence, this is totally— evidence to prove their innocence, this is totally wrong _ evidence to prove their innocence, this is totally wrong and _ evidence to prove their innocence, i this is totally wrong and abhorrent, it really_ this is totally wrong and abhorrent, it really is — this is totally wrong and abhorrent, it really is it— this is totally wrong and abhorrent, it reall is. . this is totally wrong and abhorrent, it really is. it is. seema, _ this is totally wrong and abhorrent, it really is. it is. seema, were i this is totally wrong and abhorrent, it really is. it is. seema, were youl it really is. it is. seema, were you tellin: it really is. it is. seema, were you telling people _ it really is. it is. seema, were you telling people in — it really is.- seema, were you telling people in prison? - it really is.- seema, were you telling people in prison? i- it really is.- seema, were you telling people in prison? i mean, i it really is.- seema, were you j telling people in prison? i mean, i would have been shouting it from the rooftops if i could have got onto the rooftop. were you telling people

what had happened and what an injustice it wasn't how cruel it was? i am struck by what you said a few moments ago. if you hadn't been pregnant you would have taken your own life. ., ., , �* pregnant you would have taken your own life. ., .,, �* .,, own life. no, wasn't saying. it was 'ust own life. no, wasn't saying. it was just horrible _ own life. no, wasn't saying. it was just horrible in _ own life. no, wasn't saying. it was just horrible in there. _ own life. no, wasn't saying. it was just horrible in there. people i own life. no, wasn't saying. it was just horrible in there. people werej just horrible in there. people were dotted _ just horrible in there. people were dotted i_ just horrible in there. people were dotted i was so scared. anyone could come _ dotted i was so scared. anyone could come and _ dotted i was so scared. anyone could come and stab me or something. when i was released on tag, i had to agree — i was released on tag, i had to agree with _ i was released on tag, i had to agree with that, that i have learned my lesson, — agree with that, that i have learned my lesson, i won't do anything bad my lesson, iwon't do anything bad again— my lesson, i won't do anything bad again and _ my lesson, i won't do anything bad again and all that! i was keeping to myself— again and all that! i was keeping to myself only. i didn't want to extend myself only. i didn't want to extend my sentence if i speak to someone or if i my sentence if i speak to someone or if i haven't— my sentence if i speak to someone or if i haven't learnt, they might think. — if i haven't learnt, they might think. she _ if i haven't learnt, they might think, she is still in the delusion that she — think, she is still in the delusion that she is — think, she is still in the delusion that she is not a criminal. let's keep— that she is not a criminal. let's keep her— that she is not a criminal. let's keep her more. sol that she is not a criminal. let's keep her more. so i had to agree that i_ keep her more. so i had to agree that i had — keep her more. so i had to agree that i had learned my lesson and i would _ that i had learned my lesson and i would he — that i had learned my lesson and i would be good. that i had learned my lesson and i would be good-— that i had learned my lesson and i would be aood. ., ., , would be good. how do you compensate for that? you — would be good. how do you compensate for that? you can't _ would be good. how do you compensate for that? you can't compensate - would be good. how do you compensate for that? you can't compensate for- for that? you can't compensate for that _ for that? you can't compensate for

that. ., for that? you can't compensate for that.- recompense, i for that? you can't compensate for that.- recompense, as . for that? you can't compensate for} that.- recompense, as we that. nothing. recompense, as we want to say — that. nothing. recompense, as we want to say now — that. nothing. recompense, as we want to say now rather _ that. nothing. recompense, as we want to say now rather than - want to say now rather than compensation. _ want to say now rather than compensation.— want to say now rather than i compensation.- yeah, compensation. redress. yeah, redress. compensation. redress. yeah, redress- it _ compensation. redress. yeah, redress. it really _ compensation. redress. yeah, redress. it really is, _ compensation. redress. yeah, redress. it really is, how- compensation. redress. yeah, redress. it really is, how can . compensation. redress. yeah, i redress. it really is, how can you put a _ redress. it really is, how can you put a figure _ redress. it really is, how can you put a figure on_ redress. it really is, how can you put a figure on that, _ redress. it really is, how can you put a figure on that, let - redress. it really is, how can you put a figure on that, let alone i redress. it really is, how can youl put a figure on that, let alone the money— put a figure on that, let alone the money that— put a figure on that, let alone the money that you _ put a figure on that, let alone the money that you are _ put a figure on that, let alone the money that you are owed - put a figure on that, let alone the money that you are owed out - put a figure on that, let alone the money that you are owed out of. put a figure on that, let alone the i money that you are owed out of your own pockets? — money that you are owed out of your own pockets? it _ money that you are owed out of your own pockets? it is— money that you are owed out of your own pockets? it isjust... _ money that you are owed out of your own pockets? it isjust... paula - own pockets? it isjust... paula vennells, — own pockets? it isjust... paula vennells, you _ own pockets? it isjust... paula vennells, you know, _ own pockets? it isjust... paula vennells, you know, what - own pockets? it isjust... paula vennells, you know, what can. own pockets? it isjust... paula vennells, you know, what can if own pockets? it isjust... paula - vennells, you know, what can i say about— vennells, you know, what can i say about her? — vennells, you know, what can i say about her?— about her? what can you say about her within our _ about her? what can you say about her within our legal— about her? what can you say about her within our legal remit? - about her? what can you say about her within our legal remit? she - about her? what can you say abouti her within our legal remit? she has a right to a fair process will stop i know some people are saying, the subpostmasters and mistresses didn't have their process. but it is how things should be done and it is how it will be done. but if you, and i was wondering earlier, seema, if you had a one on one with paula vennells, face to face, eye to eye, what would you say to her? it

vennells, face to face, eye to eye, what would you say to her?- vennells, face to face, eye to eye, what would you say to her? it can be like one law — what would you say to her? it can be like one law for _ what would you say to her? it can be like one law for everybody. - what would you say to her? it can be like one law for everybody. so - what would you say to her? it can be like one law for everybody. so the i like one law for everybody. so the authorities— like one law for everybody. so the authorities and in parliament and all that, — authorities and in parliament and all that, if— authorities and in parliament and all that, if a common person lives they are _ all that, if a common person lives they are sent to prison straightaway. forthem they are sent to prison straightaway. for them they have to follow _ straightaway. for them they have to follow a _ straightaway. for them they have to follow a process. i know they need to follow _ follow a process. i know they need to follow a — follow a process. i know they need to follow a process but i would say to follow a process but i would say to them, _ to follow a process but i would say to them, please be genuine. have values _ to them, please be genuine. have values. they have taken something, io values. they have taken something, go back— values. they have taken something, go back and — values. they have taken something, go back and be responsible. take the responsibility and get it sorted. there's— responsibility and get it sorted. there's so— responsibility and get it sorted. there's so many lives, that'sjust the postmasters and their families' lives that— the postmasters and their families' lives that have suffered. please say the truth _ lives that have suffered. please say the truth. ., , ., the truth. the moment when you left rison and the truth. the moment when you left prison and you _ the truth. the moment when you left prison and you had _ the truth. the moment when you left prison and you had a _ the truth. the moment when you left prison and you had a tag, _ the truth. the moment when you left prison and you had a tag, what's - the truth. the moment when you left prison and you had a tag, what's it i prison and you had a tag, what's it like? when you had the tag and you had to behave yourself and not speak to people about it and all that stuff, what was the moment like when you realised there were others and there was solidarity, and there mightjust be light at the end of

the tunnel?— mightjust be light at the end of the tunnel? �* ., ., , ,., the tunnel? before i went to prison i knew the others. _ the tunnel? before i went to prison i knew the others. in _ the tunnel? before i went to prison i knew the others. in 2009 - the tunnel? before i went to prison i knew the others. in 2009 when i the tunnel? before i went to prison | i knew the others. in 2009 when we went to _ i knew the others. in 2009 when we went to fenny compton for the first time, _ went to fenny compton for the first time, i_ went to fenny compton for the first time, i knew there were other people as welt _ time, i knew there were other people as welt so _ time, i knew there were other people as well. so those people came to support— as well. so those people came to support me as well, the other postmasters when i was in my trial. life postmasters when i was in my trial. life with _ postmasters when i was in my trial. life with a _ postmasters when i was in my trial. life with a tag on was horrible. i gave _ life with a tag on was horrible. i gave birth — life with a tag on was horrible. i gave birth with a tag on. i was thinking, _ gave birth with a tag on. i was thinking, i_ gave birth with a tag on. i was thinking, i have broken my curfew, they will— thinking, i have broken my curfew, they will come and take me again! what _ they will come and take me again! what will— they will come and take me again! what will the midwife be thinking, what kind — what will the midwife be thinking, what kind of mother does she think i will be? _ what kind of mother does she think i will be? they can't put a price on that _ will be? they can't put a price on that it _ will be? they can't put a price on that it still— will be? they can't put a price on that. it still gives me nightmares. i would _ that. it still gives me nightmares. i would imagine there is an element of ptsd about the whole thing. clearly and genuinely. you still wake up in the middle of the night thinking about it, do you? filth. wake up in the middle of the night thinking about it, do you? oh, yeah. just a thinking about it, do you? oh, yeah. just a couple — thinking about it, do you? oh, yeah. just a couple of _ thinking about it, do you? oh, yeah. just a couple of months _ thinking about it, do you? oh, yeah. just a couple of months ago, - thinking about it, do you? oh, yeah. just a couple of months ago, i - thinking about it, do you? oh, yeah. just a couple of months ago, i was i just a couple of months ago, i was cooking _ just a couple of months ago, i was cooking in— just a couple of months ago, i was

cooking in the kitchen. i was going to put— cooking in the kitchen. i was going to put stuff— cooking in the kitchen. i was going to put stuff in the bin and i thought. _ to put stuff in the bin and i thought, i can't go out, i have got the tag _ thought, i can't go out, i have got the tag on — thought, i can't go out, i have got the tag on. it took a couple of minutes— the tag on. it took a couple of minutes to say to myself, no you don't _ minutes to say to myself, no you don't have — minutes to say to myself, no you don't have the tag on. you don't know— don't have the tag on. you don't know when— don't have the tag on. you don't know when something will trigger and it's know when something will trigger and it'siust _ know when something will trigger and it'sjust horrible. fillen know when something will trigger and it'sjust horrible.— it'sjust horrible. allen in clacton-on-sea - it'sjust horrible. allen in clacton-on-sea will - it'sjust horrible. allen in clacton-on-sea will be l it'sjust horrible. allen in - clacton-on-sea will be joining us it'sjust horrible. allen in _ clacton-on-sea will be joining us as clacton—on—sea will be joining us as well. you can text us, join the conversation. you will be able to hear and see alan bates at the post office inquiry after ten o'clock on bbc news. good morning. we have tim, peter, seema and you. what would you like to say? i’m peter, seema and you. what would you like to sa ? �* , like to say? i'm ringing up regarding _ like to say? i'm ringing up regarding my _ like to say? i'm ringing up regarding my late - like to say? i'm ringing up - regarding my late great parents. my mum passed away in 2017. they were both subpostmasters in bristol. i'm ringing up basically about, they used to balance the books years ago by hand, using a calculator, the old—fashioned way. obviously horizon

came in, they did that for a couple of years. i don't think dad got on too well with it but mum was pretty good with computers. but i was just going to say, i know for a fact, going to say, i know for a fact, going back a few years now, mum said about repaying the post office around £7,000. obviously money owed, with the balancing of the books. mum was one of these that would save the aggravation, she paid back £7,000 because the business, the rest of the shop, allowed them to do that, basically, so they didn't have that issue. but i don't know about any communications between my parents and the post office or any intimation of what would happen if they didn't pay the money. i was going to say, i am sure there are

lots of people out there that did the same thing rather than face prosecution. the same thing rather than face prosecution-— the same thing rather than face rosecution. . �* , ., , prosecution. and i'm sure... i was auoin to prosecution. and i'm sure... i was going to say _ prosecution. and i'm sure... i was going to say that _ prosecution. and i'm sure... i was going to say that myself, - prosecution. and i'm sure... i was going to say that myself, there i prosecution. and i'm sure... i was| going to say that myself, there will be many people in that situation. we have some breaking news coming in, a 25—year—old man has been arrested in aylesbury on suspicion of the murder of a 27—year—old in bradford on saturday. west yorkshire police have announced that. there had been a manhunt under way. there has been an arrest and there will be more later on bbc news. we are talking about the post office. alan bates will appear at ten o'clock at the inquiry. tim, coming back to what allen said there, there must be so many people in a situation that his parents were in.— many people in a situation that his parents were in. yes. that's almost what happened _ parents were in. yes. that's almost what happened to _ parents were in. yes. that's almost what happened to me, _ parents were in. yes. that's almost what happened to me, except - parents were in. yes. that's almostj what happened to me, except when parents were in. yes. that's almost - what happened to me, except when my shortfall _ what happened to me, except when my shortfall was discovered they demanded i paid the money back to

avoid _ demanded i paid the money back to avoid the _ demanded i paid the money back to avoid the theft charge and then they prosecuted me for false accounting. but there _ prosecuted me for false accounting. but there are many people who will have put— but there are many people who will have put thousands of pounds into their post — have put thousands of pounds into their post office without any audit 'ust their post office without any audit just to _ their post office without any audit just to balance the books.- just to balance the books. that's exactly what _ just to balance the books. that's exactly what happened - just to balance the books. that's exactly what happened to - just to balance the books. that's exactly what happened to me. i | just to balance the books. that's i exactly what happened to me. i was in exactly— exactly what happened to me. i was in exactly the — exactly what happened to me. i was in exactly the same _ exactly what happened to me. i was in exactly the same situation. - exactly what happened to me. i was in exactly the same situation. whenj in exactly the same situation. when i retired _ in exactly the same situation. when i retired under— in exactly the same situation. when i retired under the _ in exactly the same situation. when i retired under the network- i retired under the network reinvention, _ i retired under the network reinvention, i've _ i retired under the network reinvention, i've also - i retired under the network. reinvention, i've also counted i retired under the network- reinvention, i've also counted to the tune — reinvention, i've also counted to the tune of— reinvention, i've also counted to the tune of £19,000 _ reinvention, i've also counted to the tune of £19,000 and - reinvention, i've also counted to| the tune of £19,000 and without reinvention, i've also counted to - the tune of £19,000 and without the customer— the tune of £19,000 and without the customer who— the tune of £19,000 and without the customer who loaned _ the tune of £19,000 and without the customer who loaned me _ the tune of £19,000 and without the customer who loaned me the - the tune of £19,000 and without thei customer who loaned me the money, thereby— customer who loaned me the money, thereby the _ customer who loaned me the money, thereby the grace _ customer who loaned me the money, thereby the grace of— customer who loaned me the money, thereby the grace of god, _ customer who loaned me the money, thereby the grace of god, i— customer who loaned me the money, thereby the grace of god, i would - thereby the grace of god, i would have _ thereby the grace of god, i would have been— thereby the grace of god, i would have been charged _ thereby the grace of god, i would have been charged with _ thereby the grace of god, i would have been charged with false - have been charged with false accounting _ have been charged with false accounting. all— have been charged with false accounting. all of _ have been charged with false accounting. all of my- have been charged with false accounting. all of my own i have been charged with false - accounting. all of my own money had .one accounting. all of my own money had gone in _ accounting. all of my own money had gone in i_ accounting. all of my own money had gone in i had— accounting. all of my own money had gone in i had to— accounting. all of my own money had gone in. i had to borrow— accounting. all of my own money had gone in. i had to borrow on _ accounting. all of my own money had gone in. i had to borrow on the - gone in. i had to borrow on the finat— gone in. i had to borrow on the final audit _ gone in. i had to borrow on the final audit or— gone in. i had to borrow on the final audit or else _ gone in. i had to borrow on the final audit or else i— gone in. i had to borrow on the final audit or else i would - gone in. i had to borrow on the final audit or else i would have| final audit or else i would have been _ final audit or else i would have been charged _ final audit or else i would have been charged. there's - final audit or else i would have i been charged. there's thousands final audit or else i would have - been charged. there's thousands of subpostmasters _ been charged. there's thousands of subpostmasters in— been charged. there's thousands of subpostmasters in that _ been charged. there's thousands of subpostmasters in that position - been charged. there's thousands ofj subpostmasters in that position and now i— subpostmasters in that position and now i would — subpostmasters in that position and now i would love _ subpostmasters in that position and now i would love them _ subpostmasters in that position and now i would love them to _ subpostmasters in that position and now i would love them to claim. - subpostmasters in that position and now i would love them to claim. i. now i would love them to claim. i have _ now i would love them to claim. i have been— now i would love them to claim. i have been encouraging _ now i would love them to claim. i have been encouraging them - now i would love them to claim. i have been encouraging them on. have been encouraging them on different— have been encouraging them on different radio _ have been encouraging them on different radio stations. -

have been encouraging them on different radio stations. i- have been encouraging them on different radio stations. i was i have been encouraging them on| different radio stations. i was on different radio stations. ! was on radio— different radio stations. i was on radio new— different radio stations. i was on radio new zealand _ different radio stations. i was on radio new zealand when - different radio stations. ! was on radio new zealand when mr- different radio stations. i was on. radio new zealand when mr bates versus— radio new zealand when mr bates versus the — radio new zealand when mr bates versus the post _ radio new zealand when mr bates versus the post office _ radio new zealand when mr bates versus the post office was - radio new zealand when mr bates versus the post office was aired i versus the post office was aired last week — versus the post office was aired last week i'm _ versus the post office was aired last week. i'm going _ versus the post office was aired last week. i'm going round - versus the post office was aired l last week. i'm going round talking to people — last week. i'm going round talking to people and _ last week. i'm going round talking to people and encouraging - last week. i'm going round talking to people and encouraging former| to people and encouraging former subpostmasters— to people and encouraging former subpostmasters to _ to people and encouraging former subpostmasters to now— to people and encouraging former subpostmasters to now claim. - to people and encouraging former subpostmasters to now claim. it i to people and encouraging former. subpostmasters to now claim. it was their money — subpostmasters to now claim. it was their money i— subpostmasters to now claim. it was their money. i have _ subpostmasters to now claim. it was their money. i have two _ subpostmasters to now claim. it was their money. i have two instances. subpostmasters to now claim. it was their money. i have two instances ii their money. i have two instances i have _ their money. i have two instances i have heard — their money. i have two instances i have heard of— their money. i have two instances i have heard of so _ their money. i have two instances i have heard of so far. _ their money. i have two instances i have heard of so far. one - their money. i have two instances i have heard of so far. one was - their money. i have two instances i have heard of so far. one was a - have heard of so far. one was a £50,000 — have heard of so far. one was a £50,000 short. _ have heard of so far. one was a £50,000 short. and _ have heard of so far. one was a £50,000 short. and one - have heard of so far. one was a £50,000 short. and one of- have heard of so far. one was a| £50,000 short. and one of 306 have heard of so far. one was a i £50,000 short. and one of 306 to £5,000 _ £50,000 short. and one of 306 to £5,000 where _ £50,000 short. and one of 306 to £5,000 where two _ £50,000 short. and one of 306 to | £5,000 where two subpostmasters, brothers, _ £5,000 where two subpostmasters, brothers, they— £5,000 where two subpostmasters, brothers, they went _ £5,000 where two subpostmasters, brothers, they went bankrupt. - £5,000 where two subpostmasters, brothers, they went bankrupt. it - £5,000 where two subpostmasters, brothers, they went bankrupt. it is i brothers, they went bankrupt. it is despicable — brothers, they went bankrupt. it is despicable. their— brothers, they went bankrupt. it is despicable. their lives _ brothers, they went bankrupt. it is despicable. their lives have - brothers, they went bankrupt. it is despicable. their lives have been i despicable. their lives have been ruined. _ despicable. their lives have been ruined. they— despicable. their lives have been ruined, they can't _ despicable. their lives have been ruined, they can't get _ despicable. their lives have been ruined, they can't get a - despicable. their lives have been ruined, they can't get a job, - despicable. their lives have been ruined, they can't get a job, theyj ruined, they can't get a job, they can't _ ruined, they can't get a job, they can't get — ruined, they can't get a job, they can't get a — ruined, they can't get a job, they can't get a mortgage, _ ruined, they can't get a job, they can't get a mortgage, their- ruined, they can't get a job, theyi can't get a mortgage, their family lives have — can't get a mortgage, their family lives have been— can't get a mortgage, their family lives have been ruined _ can't get a mortgage, their family lives have been ruined they- can't get a mortgage, their family lives have been ruined they have i can't get a mortgage, their family. lives have been ruined they have got to have _ lives have been ruined they have got to have recompense _ lives have been ruined they have got to have recompense and _ lives have been ruined they have got to have recompense and swiftly. - lives have been ruined they have goti to have recompense and swiftly. they need that _ to have recompense and swiftly. they need that money _ to have recompense and swiftly. they need that money. they— to have recompense and swiftly. they need that money. they have - to have recompense and swiftly. they need that money. they have got - to have recompense and swiftly. they need that money. they have got to i need that money. they have got to live, and _ need that money. they have got to live, and their— need that money. they have got to live, and their families— need that money. they have got to live, and their families have - need that money. they have got to live, and their families have got i need that money. they have got to live, and their families have got to| live, and their families have got to live, and their families have got to live and _ live, and their families have got to live and move _ live, and their families have got to live and move on. _ live, and their families have got to live and move on. it's— live, and their families have got to live and move on.— live, and their families have got to live and move on. it's amazing how this has gone _ live and move on. it's amazing how this has gone global. _ live and move on. it's amazing how this has gone global. i _ live and move on. it's amazing how this has gone global. i couldn't i this has gone global. i couldn't believe it when _ this has gone global. i couldn't believe it when radio _ this has gone global. i couldn't believe it when radio new- this has gone global. i couldn't i believe it when radio new zealand contacted — believe it when radio new zealand contacted me _ believe it when radio new zealand contacted me and _ believe it when radio new zealand contacted me and wanted - believe it when radio new zealand contacted me and wanted my i

believe it when radio new zealandl contacted me and wanted my view. believe it when radio new zealand i contacted me and wanted my view. i spoke _ contacted me and wanted my view. i spoke with— contacted me and wanted my view. i spoke with neit— contacted me and wanted my view. i spoke with neil hodge _ contacted me and wanted my view. i spoke with neil hodge shows, - contacted me and wanted my view. i spoke with neil hodge shows, my. spoke with neil hodge shows, my solicitor — spoke with neil hodge shows, my solicitor it — spoke with neil hodge shows, my solicitor. it was _ spoke with neil hodge shows, my solicitor. it was a _ spoke with neil hodge shows, my solicitor. it was a really _ spoke with neil hodge shows, my solicitor. it was a really good i solicitor. it was a really good three-way _ solicitor. it was a really good three—way conversation i solicitor. it was a really good three—way conversation with| solicitor. it was a really good - three—way conversation with another subpostmaster — three—way conversation with another subpostmaster from _ three—way conversation with another subpostmaster from scotland. - subpostmaster from scotland. different — subpostmaster from scotland. different stories _ subpostmaster from scotland. different stories that - subpostmaster from scotland. different stories that the i subpostmaster from scotland. different stories that the new| different stories that the new zealand — different stories that the new zealand people _ different stories that the new zealand people wanted - different stories that the new zealand people wanted to i different stories that the new i zealand people wanted to know different stories that the new - zealand people wanted to know about. i have _ zealand people wanted to know about. i have had _ zealand people wanted to know about. i have had a _ zealand people wanted to know about. i have had a reaction— zealand people wanted to know about. i have had a reaction since _ zealand people wanted to know about. i have had a reaction since then. - zealand people wanted to know about. i have had a reaction since then. it- i have had a reaction since then. it needs— i have had a reaction since then. it needs to _ i have had a reaction since then. it needs to be — i have had a reaction since then. it needs to be aired _ i have had a reaction since then. it needs to be aired everywhere. i needs to be aired everywhere. everyone — needs to be aired everywhere. everyone needs _ needs to be aired everywhere. everyone needs to _ needs to be aired everywhere. everyone needs to know - needs to be aired everywhere. everyone needs to know the i needs to be aired everywhere. - everyone needs to know the injustice that has— everyone needs to know the injustice that has been— everyone needs to know the injustice that has been done _ everyone needs to know the injustice that has been done on— everyone needs to know the injustice that has been done on a _ everyone needs to know the injustice that has been done on a massive, i that has been done on a massive, massive _ that has been done on a massive, massive scale _ that has been done on a massive, massive scale.— massive scale. showing it in new zealand, massive scale. showing it in new zealand. one _ massive scale. showing it in new zealand, one wonders _ massive scale. showing it in new zealand, one wonders what i massive scale. showing it in new zealand, one wonders what the i zealand, one wonders what the reaction of the general public there was. i don't know if you got a sense of that. , , ._ ., .., of that. dismay. how the hell could it ha en, of that. dismay. how the hell could it happen. why _ of that. dismay. how the hell could it happen. why did _ of that. dismay. how the hell could it happen, why did it _ of that. dismay. how the hell could it happen, why did it happen, i of that. dismay. how the hell could it happen, why did it happen, and i it happen, why did it happen, and obviously. — it happen, why did it happen, and obviously. as— it happen, why did it happen, and obviously, as was _ it happen, why did it happen, and obviously, as was shown - it happen, why did it happen, and obviously, as was shown in - it happen, why did it happen, and obviously, as was shown in the i it happen, why did it happen, and| obviously, as was shown in the mr bates— obviously, as was shown in the mr bates programme, _ obviously, as was shown in the mr bates programme, who _ obviously, as was shown in the mr bates programme, who let- obviously, as was shown in the mr bates programme, who let it i obviously, as was shown in the mr- bates programme, who let it happen? the board _ bates programme, who let it happen? the board of— bates programme, who let it happen? the board of directors _ bates programme, who let it happen? the board of directors and _ bates programme, who let it happen? the board of directors and the - bates programme, who let it happen? the board of directors and the ceo. i the board of directors and the ceo. they are _ the board of directors and the ceo. they are all— the board of directors and the ceo. they are all culpable, _ the board of directors and the ceo. they are all culpable, all _ the board of directors and the ceo. they are all culpable, all of - the board of directors and the ceo. they are all culpable, all of them. i they are all culpable, all of them. i am _ they are all culpable, all of them. i am hoping — they are all culpable, all of them. i am hoping from _ they are all culpable, all of them. i am hoping from the _ they are all culpable, all of them. i am hoping from the inquiry- they are all culpable, all of them. i am hoping from the inquiry thati i am hoping from the inquiry that everybody—

i am hoping from the inquiry that everybody that _ i am hoping from the inquiry that everybody that was _ i am hoping from the inquiry that everybody that was culpable i i am hoping from the inquiry that everybody that was culpable is i everybody that was culpable is brought — everybody that was culpable is brought to _ everybody that was culpable is brought tojustice, _ everybody that was culpable is brought tojustice, everybody. j everybody that was culpable is i brought tojustice, everybody. all the way— brought tojustice, everybody. all the way down _ brought tojustice, everybody. all the way down the _ brought tojustice, everybody. all the way down the network. - brought tojustice, everybody. all. the way down the network. including investigators and _ the way down the network. including investigators and auditors. _ the way down the network. including investigators and auditors. the i the way down the network. including investigators and auditors. the way. investigators and auditors. the way that people — investigators and auditors. the way that pe0pte were _ investigators and auditors. the way that people were treated _ investigators and auditors. the way that people were treated when - investigators and auditors. the way| that people were treated when they were interviewed _ that people were treated when they were interviewed was _ that people were treated when they were interviewed was despicable. . that people were treated when they were interviewed was despicable. it really— were interviewed was despicable. it really was — were interviewed was despicable. it reall was. ~ ., . really was. were you into valued? the are really was. were you into valued? they are all _ really was. were you into valued? they are all culpable. _ really was. were you into valued? they are all culpable. i _ really was. were you into valued? they are all culpable. i was - really was. were you into valued? they are all culpable. i was never| they are all culpable. i was never interviewed — they are all culpable. i was never interviewed but _ they are all culpable. i was never interviewed but i— they are all culpable. i was never interviewed but i sat _ they are all culpable. i was never interviewed but i sat in _ they are all culpable. i was never interviewed but i sat in on - they are all culpable. i was never interviewed but i sat in on one i they are all culpable. i was never| interviewed but i sat in on one and it was— interviewed but i sat in on one and it wasjust — interviewed but i sat in on one and it was just awful. _ interviewed but i sat in on one and it was just awful. i've _ interviewed but i sat in on one and it was just awful. i've come - interviewed but i sat in on one and it was just awful. i've come as - interviewed but i sat in on one and it was just awful. i've come as a i it was just awful. i've come as a representative, _ it was just awful. i've come as a representative, you _ it was just awful. i've come as a representative, you couldn't- it was just awful. i've come as a j representative, you couldn't say it was just awful. i've come as a l representative, you couldn't say a word _ representative, you couldn't say a word you — representative, you couldn't say a word you were _ representative, you couldn't say a word. you were not _ representative, you couldn't say a word. you were not able - representative, you couldn't say a word. you were not able to - representative, you couldn't say a| word. you were not able to speak, you were _ word. you were not able to speak, you were just _ word. you were not able to speak, you were just there _ word. you were not able to speak, you were just there to _ word. you were not able to speak, you were just there to support. - word. you were not able to speak, i you were just there to support. and i'm sorry, _ you were just there to support. and i'm sorry, what _ you were just there to support. and i'm sorry, what i _ you were just there to support. and i'm sorry, what i witnessed - you were just there to support. and i'm sorry, what i witnessed was - i'm sorry, what i witnessed was awful — i'm sorry, what i witnessed was awful let — i'm sorry, what i witnessed was awful. let alone _ i'm sorry, what i witnessed was awful. let alone people - i'm sorry, what i witnessed was awful. let alone people being l i'm sorry, what i witnessed was - awful. let alone people being taken to court— awful. let alone people being taken to court and — awful. let alone people being taken to court and found _ awful. let alone people being taken to court and found guilty _ awful. let alone people being taken to court and found guilty or- awful. let alone people being taken to court and found guilty or had - awful. let alone people being taken to court and found guilty or had to i to court and found guilty or had to plead _ to court and found guilty or had to plead guilty— to court and found guilty or had to plead guilty to _ to court and found guilty or had to plead guilty to not _ to court and found guilty or had to plead guilty to not go _ to court and found guilty or had to plead guilty to not go to _ to court and found guilty or had to plead guilty to not go to prison. . plead guilty to not go to prison. it's hot — plead guilty to not go to prison. it's not good _ plead guilty to not go to prison. it's not good enough. _ plead guilty to not go to prison. it's not good enough. i- plead guilty to not go to prison. it's not good enough.— it's not good enough. i was 'ust auoin to it's not good enough. i was 'ust going to say. i it's not good enough. i was 'ust going to say. mi it's not good enough. i wasjust going to say, my parents... - it's not good enough. i wasjust i going to say, my parents... when it's not good enough. i wasjust - going to say, my parents. .. when i going to say, my parents... when i watched the _

going to say, my parents... when i watched the programme _ going to say, my parents... when i watched the programme yesterday | going to say, my parents... when i - watched the programme yesterday and the forrrrer— watched the programme yesterday and the former subpostmistress _ watched the programme yesterday and the former subpostmistress from - the former subpostmistress from suhderlahd, _ the former subpostmistress from suhderlahd, i_ the former subpostmistress from sunderland, i cried. _ the former subpostmistress from sunderland, i cried. the - the former subpostmistress from sunderland, i cried. the fact - the former subpostmistress from sunderland, i cried. the fact she| sunderland, i cried. the fact she -ot sunderland, i cried. the fact she got to— sunderland, i cried. the fact she got to the — sunderland, i cried. the fact she got to the point— sunderland, i cried. the fact she got to the point where _ sunderland, i cried. the fact she got to the point where she - sunderland, i cried. the fact she got to the point where she was i sunderland, i cried. the fact she - got to the point where she was going to commit— got to the point where she was going to commit suicide, _ got to the point where she was going to commit suicide, that _ got to the point where she was going to commit suicide, that then - got to the point where she was going to commit suicide, that then saw- got to the point where she was going to commit suicide, that then saw thej to commit suicide, that then saw the picture _ to commit suicide, that then saw the picture in _ to commit suicide, that then saw the picture in the — to commit suicide, that then saw the picture in the conservatory— to commit suicide, that then saw the picture in the conservatory of- to commit suicide, that then saw the picture in the conservatory of her- picture in the conservatory of her two childreh~ _ picture in the conservatory of her two children. i— picture in the conservatory of her two children. i know— picture in the conservatory of her two children. i know what - picture in the conservatory of her two children. i know what she . picture in the conservatory of her. two children. i know what she must have felt _ two children. i know what she must have felt like because after i spoke | have felt like because after i spoke to you. _ have felt like because after i spoke to you. nikki, _ have felt like because after i spoke to you, nikki, and _ have felt like because after i spoke to you, nikki, and i— have felt like because after i spoke to you, nikki, and i told _ have felt like because after i spoke to you, nikki, and i told my- have felt like because after i spoke | to you, nikki, and i told my family, and the— to you, nikki, and i told my family, and the wider — to you, nikki, and i told my family, and the wider public, _ to you, nikki, and i told my family, and the wider public, i _ to you, nikki, and i told my family, and the wider public, i went- to you, nikki, and i told my family, and the wider public, i went into i to you, nikki, and i told my family, and the wider public, i went into a i and the wider public, i went into a dark place — and the wider public, i went into a dark place because _ and the wider public, i went into a dark place because it— and the wider public, i went into a dark place because it all— and the wider public, i went into a dark place because it all came - and the wider public, i went into a l dark place because it all came back. although _ dark place because it all came back. although i _ dark place because it all came back. although i had — dark place because it all came back. although i had left _ dark place because it all came back. although i had left the _ dark place because it all came back. although i had left the network- although i had left the network seven _ although i had left the network seven years. _ although i had left the network seven years, everything - although i had left the network. seven years, everything suddenly came _ seven years, everything suddenly came back — seven years, everything suddenly came back. what— seven years, everything suddenly came back. what could _ seven years, everything suddenly came back. what could have - seven years, everything suddenly- came back. what could have happened to me _ came back. what could have happened to me it— came back. what could have happened to me it didn't, — came back. what could have happened to me. it didn't, by— came back. what could have happened to me. it didn't, by the _ came back. what could have happened to me. it didn't, by the grace - came back. what could have happened to me. it didn't, by the grace of- to me. it didn't, by the grace of god, _ to me. it didn't, by the grace of god, lrut— to me. it didn't, by the grace of god, but i— to me. it didn't, by the grace of god, but i suddenly— to me. it didn't, by the grace of god, but i suddenly realised - to me. it didn't, by the grace of god, but i suddenly realised i. to me. it didn't, by the grace of- god, but i suddenly realised i could have lost _ god, but i suddenly realised i could have lost everything. _ god, but i suddenly realised i could . have lost everything. subpostmasters are the _ have lost everything. subpostmasters are the pillar— have lost everything. subpostmasters are the pillar of— have lost everything. subpostmasters are the pillar of the _ have lost everything. subpostmasters are the pillar of the community. - are the pillar of the community. they— are the pillar of the community. they support _ are the pillar of the community. they support everything - are the pillar of the community. they support everything that. are the pillar of the community. . they support everything that goes are the pillar of the community. - they support everything that goes on in their— they support everything that goes on in their locality. _ they support everything that goes on in their locality. i— they support everything that goes on in their locality. i just _ they support everything that goes on in their locality. ijust thought, - in their locality. ijust thought, what _ in their locality. ijust thought, what did — in their locality. ijust thought, what did my— in their locality. ijust thought, what did my public _ in their locality. ijust thought, what did my public think- in their locality. ijust thought,

what did my public think of- in their locality. ijust thought, what did my public think of me in their locality. ijust thought, - what did my public think of me once they heard — what did my public think of me once they heard my— what did my public think of me once they heard my story? _ what did my public think of me once they heard my story? i— what did my public think of me once they heard my story? i got - what did my public think of me once they heard my story? i got over- what did my public think of me once| they heard my story? i got over 500 whatsapped — they heard my story? i got over 500 whatsapped messages _ they heard my story? i got over 500 whatsapped messages and - they heard my story? i got over 500 whatsapped messages and text - whatsapped messages and text messages — whatsapped messages and text messages from _ whatsapped messages and text messages from former- whatsapped messages and text l messages from former customers whatsapped messages and text - messages from former customers in blackpool. _ messages from former customers in blackpool. and — messages from former customers in blackpool. and i_ messages from former customers in blackpool, and i was _ messages from former customers in blackpool, and i was so _ messages from former customers in blackpool, and i was so reassured . blackpool, and i was so reassured that their— blackpool, and i was so reassured that their reaction. _ blackpool, and i was so reassured that their reaction. it _ blackpool, and i was so reassured that their reaction. it was - blackpool, and i was so reassured that their reaction. it was just - that their reaction. it was just incredible _ that their reaction. it was just incredible. times— that their reaction. it was just incredible. times that - that their reaction. it was just incredible. times that by - that their reaction. it was justi incredible. times that by every subpostmaster _ incredible. times that by every subpostmaster around - incredible. times that by every subpostmaster around the - incredible. times that by every - subpostmaster around the country, some _ subpostmaster around the country, some were — subpostmaster around the country, some were hot _ subpostmaster around the country, some were not believed. _ subpostmaster around the country, some were not believed. what- subpostmaster around the country, some were not believed.— subpostmaster around the country, some were not believed. what you say is so true. some were not believed. what you say is so true- the — some were not believed. what you say is so true. the pillars _ some were not believed. what you say is so true. the pillars of _ some were not believed. what you say is so true. the pillars of the _ is so true. the pillars of the community, that's why this whole thing has struck, and it kind of, this story was communicated to people by that drama and it struck such a clanging, resident chord with people. we will be back in a second. to remind you of the breaking news, a man has been arrested in connection with the bradford murder. west yorkshire police say a 25—year—old man has been arrested in aylesbury on suspicion of the murder

of 27—year—old kulsuma akter in bradford on saturday. our news reporter aruna iyengar is here with me. what do we know? latest reporter aruna iyengar is here with me. what do we know? west yorkshire police have released _ me. what do we know? west yorkshire police have released a _ me. what do we know? west yorkshire police have released a statement - police have released a statement today. they have arrested a 25—year—old man on suspicion of the murder of this young woman, kulsuma akter. she was killed on saturday afternoon in bradford. she had been repeatedly stabbed and she was pushing a pram with her baby in it. the baby survived, was alive and healthy, but unfortunately she died later in hospital on saturday afternoon. she was stabbed in west gate in bradford at thejunction with drewton road at around 3.30 on saturday afternoon. she was taken to hospital but died subsequently. her family are being supported by specially trained officers. due to the police having contact with

kulsuma akter prior to her death, west yorkshire police has referred itself to the independent office of police conduct. it has also been confirmed yesterday afternoon that another young man, a 23—year—old men, had been arrested in cheshire on suspicion of assisting an offender, and he remains in police custody as well. the chief inspector, stacey atkinson of west yorkshire police's homicide and inquiry team, has said that this is a tragic incident in which a young mother has lost her life in the most horrific of circumstances. she said it has caused a considerable amount of concern in the local community. local neighbourhood policing teams are patrolling the area and conducting reassurance for the community. she also said she would like to thank thames valley police for their support and assistance in this matter. for their support and assistance in this matter-— this matter. aruna iyengar, thank ou. you this matter. aruna iyengar, thank you- you are _ this matter. aruna iyengar, thank you. you are listening _ this matter. aruna iyengar, thank you. you are listening to - this matter. aruna iyengar, thank you. you are listening to radio - this matter. aruna iyengar, thank you. you are listening to radio 5 l you. you are listening to radio 5 live and watching bbc news, bbc two. we are talking about the post office

scandal in this half hour, in this hour if you are listening on the radio. we will be hearing from alan bates, the man who has been campaigning on this for many long years, the very fulcrum of the campaign. he is appearing at the inquiry, we will be seeing him and hearing from him just after ten o'clock this morning. some good people are talking to us this morning. i was going to ask seema, seema misra who went to prison, was tagged, was pregnant with her second child when she was in prison. to remind people if they have just joined us. seema, i know the word compensation is wholly inadequate. as a concept for what you guys have all gone through. it falls well short and seems almost facile, but redress is perhaps a better word. where are you in all that and where is everybody and all that, just to

remind viewers and listeners? i is everybody and all that, just to remind viewers and listeners? i have received some _ remind viewers and listeners? i have received some interim _ remind viewers and listeners? i have received some interim payments - remind viewers and listeners? i i—e: received some interim payments but i'm still waiting for a full and final compensation. gdgre i'm still waiting for a full and final compensation.- final compensation. are still waiting , final compensation. are still waiting, when _ final compensation. are still waiting, when will— final compensation. are still waiting, when will that - final compensation. are still l waiting, when will that come? knowing the post office, don't know! chuckles we mention compensation but it is our own money that they have been sitting on. we are not asking for anything extra, just our own money that they took from us.— that they took from us. that's a very good _ that they took from us. that's a very good point. _ that they took from us. that's a very good point, peter. - that they took from us. that's a very good point, peter. it - that they took from us. that's a very good point, peter. it is - very good point, peter. it is indeed. very good point, peter. it is indeed- l— very good point, peter. it is indeed. i put _ very good point, peter. it is indeed. i put in _ very good point, peter. it is indeed. i put in my - very good point, peter. it is indeed. i put in my claim i very good point, peter. it is indeed. i put in my claim after speaking — indeed. i put in my claim after speaking to— indeed. i put in my claim after speaking to you _ indeed. i put in my claim after speaking to you in _ indeed. i put in my claim after speaking to you in january- indeed. i put in my claim after| speaking to you in january with indeed. i put in my claim after- speaking to you in january with neil hodge _ speaking to you in january with neil hodge hills — speaking to you in january with neil hodge hills my— speaking to you in january with neil hodge hills. my claim _ speaking to you in january with neil hodge hills. my claim has - speaking to you in january with neil hodge hills. my claim has now- speaking to you injanuary with neill hodge hills. my claim has now been accepted _ hodge hills. my claim has now been accepted and — hodge hills. my claim has now been accepted. and obviously— hodge hills. my claim has now been accepted. and obviously like - accepted. and obviously like everybody _ accepted. and obviously like everybody else _ accepted. and obviously like everybody else i— accepted. and obviously like everybody else i am - accepted. and obviously like everybody else i am sat - accepted. and obviously like | everybody else i am sat here accepted. and obviously like - everybody else i am sat here waiting to see _ everybody else i am sat here waiting to see what — everybody else i am sat here waiting to see what will _ everybody else i am sat here waiting to see what will happen. _ everybody else i am sat here waiting to see what will happen. that's - everybody else i am sat here waiting to see what will happen. that's the i to see what will happen. that's the situation _ to see what will happen. that's the situation we — to see what will happen. that's the situation. we have _ to see what will happen. that's the situation. we have heard _ to see what will happen. that's the situation. we have heard nothing l situation. we have heard nothing since _ situation. we have heard nothing since and — situation. we have heard nothing since and still— situation. we have heard nothing since and still waiting. _ situation. we have heard nothing since and still waiting. the - situation. we have heard nothing since and still waiting.— since and still waiting. the likes of seema and _ since and still waiting. the likes of seema and yourself, - since and still waiting. the likes| of seema and yourself, listening since and still waiting. the likes i of seema and yourself, listening to her story, what can possibly come close to compensating for the

distress, the damage to mental health, the ruining of reputation, the shredding of career, the destruction of all your hopes and dreams and who you thought you were and what you would do. who could ever compensate for that? i just and what you would do. who could ever compensate for that? i 'ust do not know. money * ever compensate for that? i 'ust do not know. money comes _ ever compensate for that? i just do not know. money comes into - ever compensate for that? i just do not know. money comes into it, - ever compensate for that? i just do | not know. money comes into it, yes, because _ not know. money comes into it, yes, because financially— not know. money comes into it, yes, because financially every— because financially every subpostmaster - because financially every subpostmaster has - because financially every subpostmaster has lost. | because financially every- subpostmaster has lost. but in the wake _ subpostmaster has lost. but in the wake of— subpostmaster has lost. but in the wake of people _ subpostmaster has lost. but in the wake of people that _ subpostmaster has lost. but in the wake of people that were - subpostmaster has lost. but in the wake of people that were found i wake of people that were found guilty. — wake of people that were found guilty. or— wake of people that were found guilty, or pleaded _ wake of people that were found guilty, or pleaded guilty, - wake of people that were found guilty, or pleaded guilty, i- wake of people that were found guilty, or pleaded guilty, ijusti guilty, or pleaded guilty, ijust don't _ guilty, or pleaded guilty, ijust don't know _ guilty, or pleaded guilty, ijust don't know i— guilty, or pleaded guilty, ijust don't know. i don't _ guilty, or pleaded guilty, ijust don't know. i don't know- guilty, or pleaded guilty, ijust don't know. i don't know how. guilty, or pleaded guilty, ijust. don't know. i don't know how you redress— don't know. i don't know how you redress that~ _ don't know. i don't know how you redress that. because _ don't know. i don't know how you redress that. because once - don't know. i don't know how you redress that. because once it's . don't know. i don't know how you redress that. because once it's in your— redress that. because once it's in your nrind, — redress that. because once it's in your nrind, it's— redress that. because once it's in your mind, it's in— redress that. because once it's in your mind, it's in your— redress that. because once it's in your mind, it's in your mind - redress that. because once it's in your mind, it's in your mind and i redress that. because once it's in i your mind, it's in your mind and you will never— your mind, it's in your mind and you will never forget _ your mind, it's in your mind and you will never forget it. _ your mind, it's in your mind and you will never forget it. it's _ your mind, it's in your mind and you will never forget it. it's there, - will never forget it. it's there, support— will never forget it. it's there, support agencies, _ will never forget it. it's there, support agencies, yes, - will never forget it. it's there, | support agencies, yes, mental will never forget it. it's there, - support agencies, yes, mental health support, _ support agencies, yes, mental health support. psychiatric— support agencies, yes, mental health support, psychiatric support, - support agencies, yes, mental health support, psychiatric support, some i support, psychiatric support, some people— support, psychiatric support, some people might — support, psychiatric support, some

people might be _ support, psychiatric support, some people might be needing. - support, psychiatric support, some people might be needing. but - support, psychiatric support, some people might be needing. but it. people might be needing. but it can't _ people might be needing. but it can't be — people might be needing. but it can't be at — people might be needing. but it can't be at their— people might be needing. but it can't be at their expense. - people might be needing. but it can't be at their expense. this. people might be needing. but it. can't be at their expense. this was mentioned — can't be at their expense. this was mentioned yesterday— can't be at their expense. this was mentioned yesterday in _ can't be at their expense. this was mentioned yesterday in the - can't be at their expense. this was i mentioned yesterday in the breakfast programme, — mentioned yesterday in the breakfast programme, it— mentioned yesterday in the breakfast programme, it cannot _ mentioned yesterday in the breakfast programme, it cannot be _ mentioned yesterday in the breakfast programme, it cannot be out - mentioned yesterday in the breakfast programme, it cannot be out there i programme, it cannot be out there expense _ programme, it cannot be out there expense. people _ programme, it cannot be out there expense. people have _ programme, it cannot be out there expense. people have their- programme, it cannot be out there expense. people have their lives. programme, it cannot be out there| expense. people have their lives to lead and _ expense. people have their lives to lead and go — expense. people have their lives to lead and go forward. _ expense. people have their lives to lead and go forward. once - expense. people have their lives to lead and go forward. once they- expense. people have their lives to. lead and go forward. once they have redress _ lead and go forward. once they have redress what— lead and go forward. once they have redress, what has— lead and go forward. once they have redress, what has happened - lead and go forward. once they have redress, what has happened to- redress, what has happened to everybody _ redress, what has happened to everybody can't _ redress, what has happened to everybody can't be _ redress, what has happened to everybody can't be taken - redress, what has happened to everybody can't be taken away| redress, what has happened to- everybody can't be taken away now. it everybody can't be taken away now. it will _ everybody can't be taken away now. it will always — everybody can't be taken away now. it will always be _ everybody can't be taken away now. it will always be there. _ everybody can't be taken away now. it will always be there. one - everybody can't be taken away now. it will always be there. one hopes. it will always be there. one hopes they will— it will always be there. one hopes they will get — it will always be there. one hopes they will get some _ it will always be there. one hopes they will get some peace - it will always be there. one hopes they will get some peace of- it will always be there. one hopes they will get some peace of mind i it will always be there. one hopes. they will get some peace of mind and be able _ they will get some peace of mind and be able to— they will get some peace of mind and be able to move _ they will get some peace of mind and be able to move on _ they will get some peace of mind and be able to move on if— they will get some peace of mind and be able to move on if you _ they will get some peace of mind and be able to move on if you are - they will get some peace of mind and be able to move on if you are a - be able to move on if you are a strong — be able to move on if you are a strong enough _ be able to move on if you are a strong enough character. - be able to move on if you are a strong enough character. but l be able to move on if you are a strong enough character. but if be able to move on if you are a - strong enough character. but if you have been— strong enough character. but if you have been beaten— strong enough character. but if you have been beaten down _ strong enough character. but if you have been beaten down for- strong enough character. but if you have been beaten down for years . strong enough character. but if you i have been beaten down for years over this, have been beaten down for years over this how— have been beaten down for years over this how do _ have been beaten down for years over this how do you— have been beaten down for years over this, how do you bounce _ have been beaten down for years over this, how do you bounce back? - have been beaten down for years over this, how do you bounce back? it- have been beaten down for years over this, how do you bounce back? it is. this, how do you bounce back? it is a very— this, how do you bounce back? it is a very difficult _ this, how do you bounce back? it is a very difficult one. _ this, how do you bounce back? it is a very difficult one. of— this, how do you bounce back? it is a very difficult one.— a very difficult one. of course it is. it's a very difficult one. of course it is- it's really — a very difficult one. of course it is. it's really good _ a very difficult one. of course it is. it's really good to _ a very difficult one. of course it is. it's really good to have - a very difficult one. of course it is. it's really good to have you | a very difficult one. of course it i is. it's really good to have you on the programme again. loads of you listening and watching are sending messages, texts. just after ten we will hear from alan bates. i messages, texts. just after ten we will hearfrom alan bates. i can read a couple of texts. hearing

seema chuckle was uplifting. i hope she can find some peace at the end of this saga. after a lifetime of working in it i was amazed to learn the hack horizon support team were able to access and leave remote data without an audit trail. the potential for criminal activity was unlimited. and this whole thing lifts the lid on government's failure to protect people from corporate interests. fujitsu protected their interests and cared nothing about the consequences are normal people. and another, so many, is a taxpayer payer whose money has been used to pay for all of this, i would like to know who was changing the accounts. as i understand it it was done manually. why did they do it and just as importantly where did the money go and who knew? i think thatis the money go and who knew? i think that is such an important question. it's a question that so many people

want answering. they were able to manipulate and change. what was the motivation to do it, why was that actually happening? it's something i will ask our reporter in a moment or two. thank you for watching on bbc two and bbc news. the inquiry is coming up with alan bates. welcome to our bbc news coverage of the post office inquiry, which is entering its next phase here. this next phase will last 15 weeks and seek to answer the central question of who knew what and when. we expect to hearin knew what and when. we expect to hear in the next few weeks from some people who were in the highest levels of power at the post office. that does include paula vennells, the former chief executive of the post office for much of this scandal. she will be speaking in may. today, alan bates arrived at the inquiry. he is the main voice we will hear today and he will set the

tone of this next phase of the inquiry. many will be familiar with him after having watched the itv drama mr bates versus the post office. if that show painted their heroes and villains of this scandal, heroes and villains of this scandal, he was very much their hero. he is seen by many as the voice and spokesperson for these subpostmasters and mistresses, the victims, hundreds of whom were prosecuted because of faulty accounting. and they see him, not only is their voice but their champion because he helped them find out they were not the only ones going through these problems. much of what we are expecting today is a call for accountability from those who would have been responsible, who would have had prior knowledge of all of this. that has been mr bates' and the subpostmasters' central message. they feel like the whole process has taken too long. i spoke to a former subpostmistress just a few minutes ago. she travelled from

fenny compton where they all met for the first time, recognising they were not the only victims of the scandal. she was there yesterday with bbc breakfast, where the current post office minister kevin hollinrake appeared, and she has travelled all the way here because so many of them want to make sure that now their voices can actually be heard because their lives have been devastated by this scandal. someone i want to bring in is richard brooks. he is a journalist. investigating all of this for years. richard, do we have you? yes. investigating all of this for years. richard, do we have you? yes, good morning. hello. _ richard, do we have you? yes, good morning. hello. thank— richard, do we have you? yes, good morning. hello. thank you _ richard, do we have you? yes, good morning. hello. thank you for - morning. hello. thank you for 'oinin: morning. hello. thank you for joining us- _ morning. hello. thank you for joining us. this _ morning. hello. thank you for joining us. this is _ morning. hello. thank you for joining us. this is something i morning. hello. thank you for i joining us. this is something you have been following closely for quite some time. i wonder what you are expecting from the next phase of the inquiry. gbgs are expecting from the next phase of the inuui .n i. are expecting from the next phase of the inui .n , are expecting from the next phase of the inui .r , .,

are expecting from the next phase of theinaui , ., , the inquiry. as you set out, this next phase _ the inquiry. as you set out, this next phase is — the inquiry. as you set out, this next phase is going _ the inquiry. as you set out, this next phase is going up - the inquiry. as you set out, this next phase is going up the - the inquiry. as you set out, this. next phase is going up the chain. the inquiry. as you set out, this - next phase is going up the chain. we are hoping to find out who at very senior levels knew what. they have been quite a few revelations in the last few weeks about the awareness of people like paula vennells, the former chief executive of the post office, about problems with the horizon system, even while prosecutions continued and postmasters continue to be persecuted. we need to hear that evidence put to senior people, what did you know, when did you know it, what did you do about it, or why did you do enough about it? i think netting to the heart of the problem —— getting to the heart of the problem. mr -- getting to the heart of the problem-— -- getting to the heart of the roblem. ~ 1, , ., ., ., problem. mr bates, as well as other subpostmasters _ problem. mr bates, as well as other subpostmasters and _ problem. mr bates, as well as other subpostmasters and mistresses - problem. mr bates, as well as other| subpostmasters and mistresses have constantly been complaining when it comes to the delays in them getting

compensation, financial redress, and also even having some of these convictions overturned. what have we heard in terms of the way the post office has been cooperating with the inquiry so far? in office has been cooperating with the inquiry so far?— inquiry so far? in terms of cooperation _ inquiry so far? in terms of cooperation with - inquiry so far? in terms of cooperation with the - inquiry so far? in terms of i cooperation with the inquiry, inquiry so far? in terms of - cooperation with the inquiry, it wasn't great to start with. the inquiry chairman has metaphorically kicked up the backside and they appear to have improved cooperation and there might be a lot of evidence to come out that we are not aware of yet. we have heard quite a few leaks recently, leaked recorded conversations. we have heard about senior lawyers at the post office knowing about the problems, one in particular, susan crichton. we heard her saying john tait that she had briefed paula vennells. —— we heard her saying on tape. we need to get her saying on tape. we need to get her perspective on that and paula

vennells' response to that. these are the questions of detail of what was happening in the boardroom and at other senior levels in the post office that this phase of the inquiry really should be tackling. i think there may be a lot more to come out that we don't already know. the post office has said it was deeply sorry for the impact this has had on victims and be recognised for what to do more, they are working around the clock to address this but i believe the inquiry has just started. richard, and so sorry, that's just listening. joining me at one o'clock this morning and i understand before we begin hearing evidence, you wish to raise the issue of disclosure?— issue of disclosure? yes, it's a matter of— issue of disclosure? yes, it's a matter of importance - issue of disclosure? yes, it's a matter of importance that - issue of disclosure? yes, it's a matter of importance that i -

issue of disclosure? yes, it's a - matter of importance that i wanted to update your