newsday continues straight after hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. there seems to be no end to the suffering of the people of zimbabwe. a prolonged drought is threatening to spread mass hunger in a country grimly familiar with political repression and economic chaos. but no amount of popular dissatisfaction seems to loosen the grip of the ruling party, zanu—pf. my guest is one of zimbabwe's highest—profile opposition figures, job sikhala, recently released from almost 600 days in prison without trial. is real change ever going to come to his homeland?

job sikhala, in a location that we have agreed not to reveal, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much, steve, for your invitation to this important interview. well, it's important to have you on this show. you emerged from more than a year and a half of pre—trial detention in zimbabwe earlier this year. we saw photographs of you last year, shackled, as you were given health care while still in detention. i just wonder what impact that experience has had on you physically and mentally.

it really affected me to the most difficult depth. i have been maltreated as if i'm a terrorist. i was not given the basic standards that are granted to prisoners, in terms of both international law and in terms of domestic law. the way i was maltreated is that they never wanted me to get peace. and also they never wanted me to get on with my proper mental strength. so that's why they have been shackling me at every turn. there is not any moment when i was visited at chikurubi maximum security prison when i was not shackled. however, i don't want to continuously lament on this because there are several other zimbabweans who have gone through worse treatment by the same regime that has been there since 1980, others who went

as far as losing their lives, when they were in a democratic, in the democratic struggle, so... as you say... mr sikhala, as you just have said, there are opposition activists who have lost their lives in the recent past, including within the last year. i just wonder whether you were actually surprised when the court declared that you could be released, that you had already served enough time in prison and that your sentence was going to be suspended from now on, and therefore you were free to go? were you actually surprised? i was not surprised on the basis

that there was not any evidence that was produced in the court of law during the period of my trial for them to procure a conviction. even the conviction which they procured, where they later gave me a suspended sentence, was a fake conviction, which was not informed in terms of the law. and the issue of video evidence which they relied upon is a well—defined jurisprudence in terms of the law. so, basically, my conviction was not in terms of the law, the regime procured a fake conviction against me, which i still stand and still believe that i am innocent of the allegations which they were alleging against me. secondly, they realised that they could not keep me in prison on the basis that this issue was no longer sustainable, both in terms of domestic and international clamour by people of goodwill who have noticed and realised that my persecution was purely political, it had nothing to do with the law and...notjust that...

right, we've agreed... we've agreed, mr sikhala, we've agreed with you not to reveal your current location, but can you just simply tell me this — are you inside zimbabwe or outside right now? i am currently receiving medical treatment after my incarceration in prison overseas, out of zimbabwe. and i am recovering very well. of course, there are medical issues that were discovered on me. my doctors are tending to them diligently and i'm happy that there is great progress in as far as my health is concerned. isn't the truth that you emerged from prison in late january of this year, having gone into detention in 2022, you emerged to a much darker, more bleak political landscape from the point of view of your activism, as an opponent of the ruling zanu—pf party?

after all, while you were in detention, president mnangagwa was re—elected. his power looks more entrenched than ever and your own opposition ccc party has basically collapsed. yeah, very true that when i came out of prison, ifound out that the regime has passed more repressive legislation in the form of the patriotic act, and also in the private voluntary 0rganisation bill that they were introducing for them to curtail the operations of human rights organisations and other entities that were in pursuit of the public interest. also, secondly, i came out when there was complete, total closure of the political space in our nation. our people are no longer able to breathe in as far as exercising their political rights in the nation is concerned. political space has been closed down. critics now have been abducted. some of them, you write them

in the press and in other international reports. 0thers lost their lives on the basis that... 0n the basis of their political beliefs... and on the question of president mnangagwa and his re—election, which, as i say, you were in detention during that election, what we saw were that international monitoring groups expressed serious concerns about that election, not least the southern african development community delegation, represented and led by nevers mumba, a former zambian vice president. he said some aspects of this election fell short of the requirements of the constitution of zimbabwe, the electoral act and the sadc�*s principles and guidelines governing genuinely democratic elections.

so there were serious concerns, but, frankly, in the months since then, mnangagwa has entrenched his power. the southern african nations have basically congratulated him and accepted the election result. and you must feel that, frankly, you lost in terms of a campaign to topple him. that is the reason why he kept me in prison without any crime that i have committed in the nation. the strategy by the regime was that i was supposed to be eliminated from the election, from the electoral processes that were going to take place in august 2023. so they found an excuse of a matter where i was representing, as a legal practitioner, one of the persons who had been brutally murdered by the people, whom, in terms of our own investigations, as the lawyer of the family, is that these people had political motivations, and the motivation came from the people who are anti—democratic, people who do not accept the diversity in our country, and also people who do not accept people to belong to the political organisations of their own choice.

so it was a strategy for them to eliminate me from the elections. they were not sure of my reaction in the event of a rigged political outcome, like what happened in august when i was not there. but my point... crosstalk. my point, mr sikhala, is that... ..after mnangagwa has finished this business of entrenching his power... yeah. ..he started interfering with the running of the opposition ccc political party. i found... when i went into prison, i left a functioning and running political party. but when i came out on the 30th ofjanuary 2024, ifound out a political party that is splintered

into several factions and claimants to the authority of the organisation. so it was very disappointing that the political party that i suffered for in prison, when i came out, it was no longer in existence. now, if you wouldn't mind... if you wouldn't mind, mr sikhala, you need to keep your answers as brief as you can, because i need to ask you some questions. you've raised a very important point about the main opposition party, of which you were a senior figure, the citizens coalition for change. as you say, you emerged from prison to find the party in chaos. it had a new secretary—general, sengezo tshabangu, who basically said that a whole host of your own party's mps who'd been elected in august were not legitimate. and he wanted by—elections to remove some of his own party members. and as a result of that, zanu—pf won a significant number of new seats which gave them a two—thirds majority in the zimbabwean lower

house of parliament. and as a result of that, nelson chamisa, the former leader of the ccc, seems to have abandoned the party. you've described it as nothing more than a carcass. so can we take it that the ccc is now dead? as far as i'm concerned, like what i said when i came out of prison, i did not want to associate myself with either of the splinter groups in the ccc political party on the basis that you would not know the origins of the conflict that has led the organisation to split into...four different political factions. i would not have followed any one of those factions on the basis that i was not aware of the reasons why the political party i left was now into disarray and also

into different pieces like that. why, mr sikhala, please tell me simply why has the main zimbabwean opposition party collapsed in such spectacular fashion? should we blame nelson chamisa for creating a party that didn't really have a constitution and a proper national organisation? or should we blame zanu—pf? because mr chamisa claims this is all the result of infiltration from the ruling party? and he said that he wouldn't swim in a riverfull of hungry crocodiles. what is your explanation? despite the crocodiles�* failure to run the nation and also bringing reforms that are required for the people of zimbabwe, he has expertise in terms of infiltrating and destroying opposition political organisations. it did not start yesterday with the ccc, but even

during the period of before independence, his fingerprints are found all over the destabilisations that were happening in zapu. his agenda and objective was to obliterate and completely destroy zapu from the political face of zimbabwe. even during the period of the mdc, we know the role that he has played in terms of bringing confusion within the mdc political superstructure. not one leader... no, hang on, hang on. i'll be honest with you, mr sikhala, we don't have time to go through the whole history of opposition movements since 1980. we simply don't have time. but i would like you to address this question — do you think the opposition movement right now is failing the people of zimbabwe, who face so many enormous economic problems and systemic political repression? the opposition political parties in zimbabwe is not... ..groupings.

it is the mindset of the people of zimbabwe. what is in the mind of the people of zimbabwe is the opposition. they despise... they despise and loathe the current regime in an unprecedented manner. there is deep discontent within the masses of our people that cannot be washed away. the groupings are not the opposition. the opposition is the mindset and what is in the mind of an individual zimbabwean. the opposition within the mindset of the generality of our masses is that it is organised. it is not going to make any retreat. as faras the... what zimbabweans... if i may say so, mr sikhala, what zimbabweans want, i think, is pretty straightforward and simple answers to straightforward and simple questions. this question is simple — are you and nelson chamisa

going to work together to try and create a new political movement? steve, my brother steve, i don't think i want to be here to bother myself on talking about individuals. what i'm concerned more is about the hunger that is striking the nation of zimbabwe. i am concerned about the human rights abuses that are continuously being perpetrated against the defenceless people of zimbabwe. unemployment at the present moment in zimbabwe is 85%. the people who are living under extreme poverty, 49%. i will not be able and prepared to dwell on individuals. i think if you have got any questions about nelson chamisa... but the point, surely... ..the best way you can get your answer during this programme... i absolutely take your point about the depth of the economic crisis facing zimbabweans today. and indeed, there are multiple reports of hunger spreading across parts of the nation, involving perhaps 2 million

or more zimbabweans, as the drought in your country worsens the agricultural situation. i understand the depth of the crisis, but you, if i may say so, have come out with a very ambitious programme for the future. you talk about a nationwide consultation with the people from the grassroots up. you say that you're going to create a national convention with up to 5,000 delegates who will tell us where they want zimbabwe to go politically. my question to you is, how can you actually deliver any of that when you talk about the scale of political repression, we see the human rights watch and other human rights groups reporting on repression at every level in zimbabwean society? how can you possibly deliver this new national movement? we will assert our rights. we will never retreat from asserting

our rights as zimbabweans. we are entitled, in terms of both domestic and international law, for us to engage in legitimate and constitutional political activity. there is not any reason why we should be stopped for us to pursue a mass consultative process in zimbabwe, because what i observe when i come out of the prison is that there was a divorce between the leadership and also the masses of our country. the masses of our country were no longer the owners of the mass democratic struggle in our country. the masses became subordinate to the struggle in zimbabwe. but my understanding is that every successful fight against a repressive regime and any tyrant and dictatorship in the history of mankind is that the masses with the courage of the destiny of their own country, so we are now engaging our masses... hang on.

be realistic. we are now giving them back the power which we took away from them. but be realistic with me, mr sikhala. i am mindful that your nickname, for many zimbabweans, is wiwa, because you model yourself on the nigerian environmental and human rights activist ken saro—wiwa. but we know what happened to mr saro—wiwa. he was eventually executed by the military dictatorship in nigeria back in 1995. as you've pointed out the repressive human rights record — the fact that opposition activists disappear, some of them have been killed — if you go back to zimbabwe — because you're not there right now — isn't the reality that if you continue with the language you're using with me, you may well disappear yourself? the struggle for the freedom of the masses of our people is not one we can relent upon. we are... like what i have been saying several times,

i am prepared to die for the causes that i believe in. i know the kind of the regime that i'm dealing with and also the way how they persecuted me when i was in prison, not only once. don't forget that i have been arrested 68 times on different allegations, being persecuted by the same regime. but i cannot relent at this hour because the people of our nation want their freedom. they want themselves to be able to exercise their democratic right to choose the leaders of their controls. there is no way we can be afraid of death when death has visited so many people in the history of the struggle of the people of zimbabwe. i think you know... when so many... hang on. when so many of your people, as you have rightly pointed out,

are living in the most desperate economic circumstances, they don't have jobs, we see thousands and thousands of them still trying to flee zimbabwe to get to south africa and other countries, when they are in that position, how do you feel about neighbouring leaders — like president ramaphosa in south africa — actually congratulating mnangagwa on his election victory? and how do you feel when you see the americans and the europeans impose targeted sanctions, which don't really appear to be having much effect, on zimbabwe? and you see china and russia deepening their very warm economic and political relationships with the mnangagwa government? how do you feel about that international response? the issues that you asked me about the south african president, cyril ramaphosa, coming to congratulate emmerson mnangagwa on the rigged electoral outcome, the truth of the matter

is that we have been able to start the history of our own mass democratic struggle since 1999, and we have noticed and identified the role which the anc and also consecutive anc governments in south africa have played to undermine the mass democratic struggle in our country. don't forget that these are the same people who forced the global political agreement on the people of zimbabwe when robert mugabe and zanu—pf were defeated in an election. so, to be clear, are you saying... the anc�*s goal is always to undermine the people of zimbabwe. i need to be very clear with you because we're almost out of time. are you saying that, even now, you believe the anc government is undermining you and the zimbabwean opposition? fikile mbalula, the secretary general of the anc, he has been spewing a lot of controversial statements against our people and also against the opposition

forces in our country. so there is no doubt that it is the anc policy for them to undermine the democratic forces in the country of zimbabwe. since the period of president thabo mbeki, we have seen what they have done in our country. we have seen how they have undermined the will of the people. so, the truth of the matter is that it is the anc�*s policy for them to undermine the people of zimbabwe in the pursuit of their own freedom. well, that's quite a charge and it's a charge that, at some point, we may well be able to put to officials in the south african government. they're not here to respond to that. before we end, though, i come back to this notion that, as you emerged from detention, and now you're trying to lead a new movement in zimbabwe, you are facing impossible odds. let'sjust think about one more thing. because of what happened in a bunch of by—elections recently, the ruling party, zanu—pf, now controls a two—thirds

majority in the lower house. they can, at least in theory, try to push through a change in the constitution to allow president mnangagwa to run for a third term. if that happens, what happens to zimbabwe and to the people that you are trying to represent? that is why we are engaging in the process of consulting the people of zimbabwe for them to own the mass democratic struggle in our country. what we will do is that we will go back to our people and consult them on the form of reaction and action we should take. and they will give us the way forward on how to respond. if the third term agenda is tabled in zimbabwe, we'll go back to the people, we will consult them. we will ask them to give us the way forward, the way forward which they will carry themselves out for them to make sure what they want is going to be done. but in a word, the struggle goes on? the struggle goes on, unabated. job sikhala, we have to end there.

i thank you forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you very much, stephen sackur, for this great interview. temperatures warmest day of the year so far. for northern ireland. south—westerly

wins brought moisture into parts of wales in south lindberg and grey skies and some spots of drizzle he blew into the afternoon. for the midlands, north of england and scotland, sunny skies like these look rather more typical, certainly warm in the sunshine. heading into the friday weather picture looking at the jet stream, similar pattern with south—westerly winds drugged up at the jet stream coming up from the azores area. that is why the weather continues to be exceptionally mild. temperatures again forecast to reach the high teens or later. quite widely, aberdeen 18 degrees friday afternoon comparing with the average of april of 11. as temperature 7 degrees above average. friday morning started off in a great note, probably some mist and fog patches around around coastal areas. some patches of rain for northern ireland into the scotland in northern england for a time but certainly will not be writing all day. should stay dry for easter and scotland, for england and wales, better chance of seeing more in the way of sunshine and again widely come looking at temperatures well above

average. high teens— low 20s and the warm response. through friday night, it could be a few more patches of right and wrong particularly for scotland, the far north of england, otherwise largely dry. if you must involve patches reform. another mild night. temperatures 9—11 for most. what about the weekend? high pressure is to be south of the uk. that will help break the cloud up across parts of england and was but we have is whether fred's working into scotland and northern ireland. saturday really represent something of a day of transition. rain moves into scotland and northern ireland. accompanying the rain will be a cooler flow of the westerly winds. away from that band of rain where temperatures should be around 13 f and a0 degrees, still some work left over across england and wales. top temperatures running into the low 20s. thejet temperatures running into the low 20s. the jet stream temperatures running into the low 20s. thejet stream is going temperatures running into the low 20s. the jet stream is going to change patterns is to go through sunday and into next week. instead of the mild south—westerly flow of the air, beget a cooler shot of north—westerly winds move again. temperatures will drop, the weather

will become increasingly unsettled as well. sunday sees quite a few showers then moving in across scotland and northern ireland. for sure weather conditions will invade across all parts of the country, temperatures will drop significantly. looking at highs of around 10—11 for glasgow and belfast. 1a—5a east to south—east england, close to average for the time of the year. for monday, get a more general area of low pressure forming and typing its way southwards and eastwards across the uk. we get a band of rain moving its way and following on that main band of rain comes a rash of sunshine and showers. across north—western areas they will be frequent and heavy, likely to be hailstorms mixed in with the downpours. temperatures if anything a little below average across northern areas of the uk. ten and belfast and nine for both glasgow and aberdeen as well. tuesday and wednesday there was to be quite a few showers around. the

weather still on the cool side. particularly in the breeze, but that high pressure looks likely to build in later in the week and into the following weekend. what is not known at this stage isn't how long the high pressure will hang around for. ifor now.

welcome to newsday.

reporting live from singapore, i'm steve lai. the headlines. oj simpson, the american footballer—turned—actor who was controversially cleared of double murder, has died of cancer at the age of 76. one of the greatest players in history, he'll forever be remembered for his televised trial for the double murder, and this notorious car chase. also in the programme — a former post office boss apologises for celebrating the conviction of this wrongly jailed pregnant sub—mistress seema misra, who was eventuallyjailed. japan's prime minister tells the us congress that american leadership remains indispensable to the world. and a big night for key players in the gaming industry, who are gathered in london for the bafta games awards. live from our studio in singapore... ..this is bbc news.

it's newsday.