of another protest encampment. it comes after a turbulent week of protest on us university campuses. as labour celebrates victories across england, rishi sunak has insisted the conservatives have "everything to fight for" — despite the party losing nearly half the seats it contested in local elections on thursday. there'll be more mayoral results today. and police in canada have charged three indian nationals with murder over last year's killing of a prominent sikh activist in vancouver — which sparked a diplomatic row now on bbc news, talking business. hello, a very warm welcome to talking business weekly with me, aaron heslehurst. let's go and take a look at what's on the show. there's a magic to cities which is that by concentrating people and jobs and infrastructure and buildings and amenities together, they start to magnify and

multiply each other. yep, the future of our cities! they're the engines of the world economy, driving 80% of global economic activity. and despite taking up just 2% of the planet's landmass, cities are the home to well over half of the world's population. and that share is growing rapidly, set to be nearly 70% by 2050. i'm going to be discussing all of that with these two. there they are. one's a top urban expert who's worked with 400 cities on everything from transport to demographic change and climate planning. and the leader of one of the world's most liveable cities, known as australia's garden city. we're going to find out from the mayor of melbourne why it's so appealing. and how do you balance the needs of five million people living side by side? also on the show, we're going to take a look at what it takes to create our spaces. i'm going to bejoined by the big boss of autodesk.

it's the world's top software designers for architects. wherever you'rejoining me from around the world, once again, a big hello and a warm welcome to the show. you know, our cities, they're home to governments, cathedrals, universities, hospitals, hundreds of millions of homes and billions of people. they dominate the global economy, but they also generate the vast majority, 70%, of the world's carbon emissions. the world, it has become more populous than at any point in history. and since 1980, the proportion of people living in urban areas, it has soared. in that year, it was just over 39%. by 2007, for the first time, more than half of the global population were living in an urban setting. and here in 2024, that number is now nearly 60%. it's projected to be 68% by the middle of this century. and if that trend continues,

more than 80%, orfour in five of us, will be living in towns or cities by 2080. that means there'll be six times as many big cities with a population of more than a million people. but some regions are becoming more urban than others. south america, for example. it's the most urbanised continent, with 85% of people living in towns and cities. while in africa it's around 46%. and we're going to hear from our colleagues in lagos as well as sao paulo in a moment. but first, let's head to india. we know that country is the world's most populous, but it's still very rural. fewer than 40% of indians live in an urban setting, but that is changing rapidly. here's our business correspondent in delhi. here in delhi, india's capital is one of the fastest growing cities in the world. and it's estimated that in the next few years, it is also going to become the most populous, with a population of over 37 million.

now, with more people, of course, there's growth and development, but there are also challenges, like more people jostling for space with limited resources. over the past few years, we've seen this region see property prices rise at over 30%. every summer delhi also battles a water crisis because the only river that supplies water to the city has seen its levels deplete over the years. and the biggest challenge? delhi became the most polluted capital city in the world last year, and experts say it's because environmental norms are not properly enforced in the city. so while india remains one of the fastest growing economies in the world, this growth is also coming at a cost. this is lagos, nigeria's commercial nerve centre, and home to an estimated 21 million people. listed amongst africa's most populous cities, traffic congestion is a major challenge. motorists spend an average of four hours commuting daily, with a huge, negative impact on productivity. as one of africa's fastest growing cities, lagos is also marred with

a public transportation issue. the yearly rainy season exposes one of lagos�*s biggest challenges, which is recurrent flooding. as has been the case with other parts of the world, people's lives are being disrupted by heavy rains. experts say a combination of questionable urban planning, poor waste management and climate change have worsened the flood issues. here in sao paulo, brazil and latin america's biggest and wealthiest city, inequality is a significant issue. one of every four homeless persons in brazil lives in the streets of sao paulo. this coexistence of affluence and poverty contributes to another serious problem — violence. robbery rates reached a record high last year in downtown sao paulo. but violence is not the only

problem at the city centre. sao paulo authorities have struggled for years to deal with an open air drug market called cracolandia, literally crack land, where over a thousand crack cocaine consumers live and where drug dealers work openly. 0k, some views from around the world there. so let's now turn to my first guest, who's one of the world's top urban experts. he's worked with 400 cities to help them steer through the, well, the challenges of growing through changing times and changing populations. professor greg clark, great to have you with us. and, greg, let me start with this, just the obvious — why are cities so important? because obviously they're home to huge numbers of people. but what is it about this kind of living environment that gives cities the, well, their wider reach and their impact? there's a magic to cities, which is that by concentrating people and jobs and infrastructure and buildings and amenities together, they start to magnify and multiply each other, creating morejobs, more opportunities, more interactions, more relationships and connectivity underpins all of that. but because of that magic, we're living now in a kind of century of cities.

this is the biggest industry in our world for the next 50 years. building and making and operating and running cities is the thing that's going to attract the most capital. it's going to attract the most attention. it's where the big opportunities are. and, greg, if we're going to see this projected growth, and even further over the coming decades, i mean, how do cities prepare to cope with the growing populations? there's two versions of urbanisation. there's what we might call bad urbanisation, where population growth outstrips the capacity of the city and its housing supply, its transport systems, its energy and its utilities. but if we can plan well for population growth and we can think about the economic change that's going on, then we can get good urbanisation. we know one challenge many cities have in common is how to house these ever growing populations.

so i've got to ask you, greg, how do they address building sustainably in a way that people and especially key workers can afford ? there's only really four ways that any city can accommodate population growth. the first thing is it can sprawl. the second way you can do it is by building new cities. and there's been lots of experiments in building new towns, new capital cities. the third way is that you can build up in cities. you can really increase the density in our cities. the fourth way, though, is that you can connect the existing city with neighbouring suburbs, cities and towns in a kind of networked approach, which allows them to benefit from having good transport systems that link things together. and, greg, we've seen many cities

we have heard a lot about 15 minutes it is. it we have heard a lot about 15 minutes it is. , . we have heard a lot about 15 minutes itis. , ., , it is. it is so that people can find all of the things _ it is. it is so that people can find all of the things they _ it is. it is so that people can find all of the things they need - it is. it is so that people can find| all of the things they need within it is. it is so that people can find i all of the things they need within a 15 minute walk of where they live to go about their daily business. film i go about their daily business. am i riaht in go about their daily business. am i right in thinking _ go about their daily business. am i right in thinking that _ go about their daily business. am i right in thinking that the critics of these 15 minute neighbourhoods as they talk about local authorities, that they put car restrictions in place as an example? you can't drive from one section to another without getting a penalty. that's what a lot of critics will point to, won't they? of critics will point to, won't the ? ~ , , ., , they? absolutely right and there is a aenuine they? absolutely right and there is a genuine debate _ they? absolutely right and there is a genuine debate here _ they? absolutely right and there is a genuine debate here about - they? absolutely right and there is i a genuine debate here about whether the individual should be free to drive polluting vehicles in large numbers from one part of a city to another almost for any purpose that

they want at any time of day in any volume, or whether the effects of them doing that on the air quality, on pollution, on the health of the majority and the contribution that that makes two carbon emissions, whether, as it were, locally democratically elected governments have the right to try to reduce the incentive to do that by imposing fines. ~ . , ., , incentive to do that by imposing fines. . , ., _ , fines. we have seen many city stru: ale fines. we have seen many city struggle with _ fines. we have seen many city struggle with urban _ fines. we have seen many city struggle with urban decline. . i mean, you've got some rust belt cities in the us, for example, birmingham here in the uk, turin in italy. greg, what can be done to drive fresh investment into those cities? the built environment in our cities, notjust housing, but all of the corporate real estate, all of the big facilities, all of the infrastructure, including the transport infrastructure, and the utilities, the water, the waste, the energy systems, these are massive investment assets.

urban revitalisation is a big opportunity, notjust for governments to take a lead in making the city liveable, investable and connected again, but it's also a massive business opportunity for investors, for corporates, and also, of course, for small enterprises that want to pilot new urban solutions. what scope is there for cities to become self—sufficient hubs for energy generation? every city in the world has a different opportunity to create much more self—sufficiency in terms of energy. as we know, our energy systems are beginning to decentralise. the introduction, particularly of solar in the hot countries of the world, is enabling both individual buildings, whole districts of cities, and indeed whole cities to move towards energy independence. the second one, of course, is the geothermal energy that exists under the ground.

and we see this increasingly in scandinavia. we see this happening in spain, and we also see geothermal being a solution in canada and in north america. in other parts of the world it has to come from other kinds of renewables, including in particular hydro and wind, not necessarily energy generated within the city, but energy generated close to the city. and, greg, let me end on this. what makes some of the world's top cities really popular places to live and work? can you name some? there are a number of cities that are consistently voted as the best cities in the world to live. one of them, of course, is singapore. another one is vienna, another one is vancouver, and of course a fourth is melbourne in australia. it's extraordinary what's been happening there in terms of the energy transition, where the city and its leaders are working together so closely with the business community, the utility companies, the superannuation funds and others to prove that the business end

of making cities really exciting is just as important for business as it is for population as well. on that note, greg clark, chair of the connected places catapult, great to have you on the show. we'll check in with you soon. thank you very much, aaron. it's been a pleasure. so, melbourne, i don't know about that. i'm from sydney, we've got the gorgeous harbour. and for people who don't know, sydney and melbourne, we've always had a very friendly rivalry. but i have to say, melbourne, i mean, it is a ringing endorsement from greg clark there. so coming up after the break and staying with melbourne, i'm going to catch up with its lord mayor to find out what makes her city so special. i'll see you shortly. welcome back to talking business weekly yep, i decided to catch up with its lord mayor. sally capp, a real pleasure

having you on the show. and, sally, let me start with this. i've got to tell you, this is probably one of the hardest interviews i've done in many years. and i say that because i am from sydney, born and bred. but your city, melbourne, it consistently enjoys a top—ten place in global liveability rankings. i've got to ask you, why do you think that is? what's so special about melbourne? melbourne has put an enormous effort into being a liveable city. we came from the �*80s and early �*90s, er, a financial crisis, a time when the city was described as a moribund city in a rust bucket state. it doesn't get much worse than that, aaron. and the city leaders at the time, together with other levels of government and private sector leaders, decided we had to do better. we've really focused on being the original 15—minute suburbs so that people can access education, health services, employment, leisure, study, all within a 15—minute radius. and we continue to invest in

elements like active transport, greening the city, elements that we know are vitally important for liveable cities. and, sally, you've been lord mayor for six years. and, of course, melbourne has been a top place to live for many years. what's your personal legacy for the city? that's a really big question, given that the, you know, last few years have included the very extreme circumstances of the pandemic. in fact, aaron, we're one of the cities with the most days experienced in lockdown. it was very, very traumatic. and so, for me, a majorfocus has been kick—starting the city and then resetting the city for a new trajectory, a new rhythm, a different future, but in many ways also a better future following that major shock. within that, though, there are some key projects. one of them is called

make room, which is to provide housing and support services and dignity for people rough sleeping in our city. another big project which has a long legacy is called greenline, and it's the rejuvenation of likm of the north bank of our yarra river that goes through the centre of our city into beautiful nature, open spaces and places for events. and, sally, correct me if i'm wrong here, but i understand that since covid, the heart of melbourne, it's become very popular at weekends, indeed busier than during the week. and i kind of think that's a problem, isn't it? because i'm just wondering, how do you get the public sector workers back into the office? the new rhythm of the city really is a reflection of the different ways that people are working. and, frankly, we have to

embrace flexible working. it is here to stay. we championed flexible working for decades prior to the pandemic. from our perspective, we want people to want to come back, aaron, so all of our initiatives and investments are really focused around the other things that people want to do in the city. and, sally, let's talk about sport, because we know melbourne has amazing stadiums. it's home to, well, most of australia's biggest afl clubs — football, for our global viewers. it's a multibillion dollar industry. but your state government concluded that it couldn't host the commonwealth games. sally, did you fight that decision? the decision by state government about the commonwealth games was really a difficult one to accept and understand at the time. one of our strengths is the quality and quantity of sporting and event

infrastructure available within our city. and we're the only city in the world that hosts both a formula 1 grand prix and a tennis grand slam. and that's reallyjust the tip of the iceberg for being able to host 100,000 fans to see taylor swift or ed sheeran in any one time through to, you mentioned the afl, where the average audience in our stadium is...last season was 73,000. we really can do things at scale. melbourne is the host city to the grand prix, you have the grand slam tennis, you have the very famous melbourne cup. what do these events do for your city? we melbourne cup. what do these events do for your city?— do for your city? we really built our city around _ do for your city? we really built our city around major _ do for your city? we really built our city around major events. i

do for your city? we really built | our city around major events. so they are a critical foundation to our economy. but more broadly than that, to our dna, to our identity and how we like to operate as a community and society. so from our perspective, of course, economic activity and returns on our investments in those types of events is absolutely critical. i investments in those types of events is absolutely critical.— is absolutely critical. i have to ask ou is absolutely critical. i have to ask you this. _ is absolutely critical. i have to ask you this, because - is absolutely critical. i have to i ask you this, because melbourne is absolutely critical. i have to - ask you this, because melbourne is also known for its art and culture, but also for your widespread graffiti, which, let's be frank, it isn't loved by all of your citizens, how do you see that? does it add or take away from the melbourne's reputation and how are you managing that side of melbourne's reality? well, aaron, let's be really clear, there is street art which we love here in melbourne. we are renowned

for street art, for recognising the talents of so many artists who literally take over our laneway is particularly. and in fact, during covid we took the opportunity to commission more street art, our beautiful murals and artworks, with another a0 laneway is transformed during those quiet times. what we don't tolerate is tagging and graffiti, it is illegal, and we are putting more effort than ever before into removing tagging and graffiti from across our city. find into removing tagging and graffiti from across our city.— into removing tagging and graffiti from across our city. and sadly, let me end on — from across our city. and sadly, let me end on this. _ i mean, you're stepping down injune, so i've got to ask you, what's left undone? what's on the in—tray for your successor? and what's your message to them? we've got major projects that go over years. i mentioned greenline earlier. rejuvenation of the north bank of the yarra, queen victoria market, our major open—air market, and new commercial residential

and retail precinct, in the city. there's just a never—ending list of things that need to be done urgently. for example, retrofitting of current commercial buildings, they're top emitters in our city. currently about seven buildings a year being converted, and that needs to be 80 if we're going to hit our target of being a zero—net city by 20a0. sally capp, the lord mayor of melbourne, fabulous to have you on the show. good luck with everything and we really appreciate your time. thanks for your interest. go, melbourne! ok, so how do we build and adapt the structures to house the residents and the workers of the world's great cities? and especially given the need to be, well, more sustainable, with buildings that chew up less energy than ever before. well, that's the challenge facing the construction industry and especially architects,

using state—of—the art computer—aided design technology. well, i decided to speak with the big boss of the world's biggest software designer for architects. andrew anagnost, great to have you on the show. and, andrew, let me start with this, because this week's show, we've been looking at the future of cities and some of the big challenges facing urban planners. so i have to ask you, how do these challenges, how do they affect your business model? the cities of the future are going to be very different, but also very similar to what we have today. and some of these challenges you talk about are pretty fundamental. 0ne, cities need to be greener. they need to be more sustainable. energy efficient. they need to be managed more effectively. but also, every single city in the modern world is suffering from infrastructure that needs to either be maintained, rebuilt or built from scratch to meet new demands. and, of course, one of the big changes that we've seen since the pandemic, andrew, is, of course, the big rise of working from home

and the knock—on effect on office space. how has that affected the way your customers use your software? it's shifted some of the emphasis from, in urban planning, to reconfiguring spaces for either new types of occupancy or actually new types of use. some facilities that were commercial office space are now turning into residential units. so what people are doing are focusing a lot on reconfiguring space and redesigning the space. and they're using our software to do that. let's now look at the big path towards net zero, path towards net—zero, because in europe they have the green buildings directive. older buildings now have to comply with these very tough emission targets by 2030. andrew, how do you help make that happen? the way you have to deal with existing infrastructure is you've got to scan it, you've got to understand it and you've got to have suggestions on how to build it. so we help with the scan, analyse and recommend part of the problems here. and if we look at some countries, i mean, let's take italy as an

example. it has a vast number of older buildings. andrew, how can historic buildings be brought up to greener goals without destroying the character of those buildings? that's a really tough problem, aaron, right? because you want the building to maintain its look, its historic authenticity and all the things associated with it. but at the same time, some of these buildings are really leaky from an energy perspective. let's take aside stained glass and all the beautiful type things like that. how do you create a more efficient window environment for these buildings while still maintaining the authenticity? this will create kind of whole new opportunities for people to build multi—pane windows that actually look like authentic older windows, or people will be coming up with technologies to add glazing or extra panes behind stained glass that make those windows actually act like a multi—pane window. we know in many places there is

a real lack of affordable housing. how do you support your customers to fulfil the housing requirements that are just so vitally needed today? there's lots of complexity in the housing industry, but what we are very passionate about at autodesk is helping people figure out how to build these houses more efficiently, with less materials and more effectively. we are very interested in helping people industrialise how they build houses. and what i mean by that is taking some of the lessons learned from the manufacturing industry and applying them to the construction industry so that you can actually build cheaper, more sustainable homes on a more rapid basis than you ever had before. and, andrew, let me end on this. in 20 years' time, will our cities as we know them today, will they be vastly different? will they look different, act differently? they will likely be vastly different. i think they will be hyper connected cities. 20 years from now, who knows if we still have cars?

you just don't know how the world's going to evolve. but if we still have cars, the cities will actually manage the flows of the cars through them. there's going to be greenery inside the cities. there's going to be urban farms on top of roofs. there's going to be more sustainable buildings. there's going to be new types of roads and infrastructure. people don't have enough money, people or materials/resources to build and rebuild everything that needs to be built. so we've got to solve that problem today so that we can get through this capacity problem, so that we can get to that bright future in 20 years. well, on that point, andrew anagnost, the big boss of autodesk, great to have you on the show. good luck with everything and we'll check in with you soon. thank you, aaron. it's been a pleasure. well that's it for this week's show. i hope you enjoyed it. don't forget you can keep up with the latest on our global economy on the bbc website or the smartphone app. of course, you can also follow me on x. x me. i'll x you back. you can get me at @bbcaaron. thanks for watching. i'll see you soon. bye—bye.

hello again. it's the bank holiday weekend, of course, and i think mixed is probably the right word to describe the weather over the course of the weekend, because, while there'll be some warm, sunny spells for many of us, there'll also be some sunshine and showers as well. and this morning, certainly, it's been quite wet across parts of northern england, into northern ireland. we'll continue with that rain, i think, in northern ireland into this afternoon. the risk of some showers, though, in the far north—west of scotland with some sunny spells, and with the sunshine in the south, you mayjust see some showers popping off across the far south—east of england. those could be heavy and thundery, but warm, sunny spells across many southern areas, temperatures 17, 18 degrees celsius. we may once again have the warmest weather in the west of scotland. 19 or 20 degrees. now, through tonight we'll continue with a bit of rain across parts of northern ireland, central southern scotland, maybe a few thundery showers in the far northwest. beneath the cloudier skies, temperatures down to about 9 to 11 degrees. but with the clearer skies, once again, quite a chilly night.

temperatures on sunday morning starting off at about a to 6 degrees. now, during sunday, there'll be some cloud in cornwall, parts of devon, a few showers here. one or two showers developing elsewhere across england and wales, but largely dry with sunny spells. some heavier showers in the northeast of scotland with some thunder. and maximum temperatures about 16 to 18 or 19 degrees. once again, it will feel quite pleasant when the sun comes out. 0n into bank holiday monday, we've got this weather front here across the south and that's going to bring more cloud, some showers across southern areas of england, a few showers further north likely as well. and again, those could be heavy, maybe even a bit thundery into the afternoon. but for much of north wales, the midlands, into eastern areas of england, it looks largely dry. there'll be some sunny spells as well. temperatures on monday perhaps down a little bit. so 1a degrees there in aberdeen, about 15, 16 celsius further south

and east across england. but going through the rest of the week, high pressure is building in. and when we see higher pressure like this, certainly in the spring, it's looking dry, it's looking fairly sunny, and actually quite warm as well. temperatures will be responding quite nicely to that sunshine. so you can see here that the temperatures will start to rise. 17 to 22 degrees celsius by the end of the week into next weekend. so on the whole, a pretty settled week to come. that's it for me. bye—bye. live from london, this is bbc news. efforts are intensifying to secure a deal for the release of hostages in gaza and a ceasefire as talks take place in egypt. rishi sunak insists the conservatives have "everything to fight for", despite a substantial number of losses in local elections, as labour's keir starmer claims the results show his

party is on course for a general election win. if you look at the overarching picture and the purpose, the purpose is to serve our country, this is the last stop before the general election, and we have made significant and very real progress. the prime minister is insisting the conservatives have everything to fight for despite the party losing nearly half the seats contested in england yesterday. labour is buoyed up england yesterday. labour is buoyed up after winning over 1000 council seats and key mayoral contest in the east midlands and rishi select�*s back yard in yorkshire and north yorkshire. this is what we can expect over the next few hours. results are expected in the six remaining regional mayoral races today and that includes greater manchester and the west midlands where the tories will be hoping andy street can cling on. all eyes will

be on the capital