yep, the future of our cities! they're the engines of the world economy, driving 80% of global economic activity. and despite taking up just 2% of the planet's landmass, cities are the home to well over half of the world's population. and that share is growing rapidly, set to be nearly 70% by 2050. i'm going to be discussing all of that with these two. there they are. 0ne�*s a top urban expert who's worked with 400 cities on everything from transport to demographic change and climate planning. and the leader of one of the world's most liveable cities, known as australia's garden city. we're going to find out from the mayor of melbourne why it's so appealing. and how do you balance the needs of five million people living side by side? also on the show, we're going to take a look at what it takes to create our spaces. i'm going to bejoined by the big boss of autodesk. it's the world's top software

designers for architects. wherever you'rejoining me from around the world, once again, a big hello and a warm welcome to the show. you know, our cities, they're home to governments, cathedrals, universities, hospitals, hundreds of millions of homes and billions of people. they dominate the global economy, but they also generate the vast majority, 70%, of the world's carbon emissions. the world, it has become more populous than at any point in history. and since 1980, the proportion of people living in urban areas, it has soared. in that year, it was just over 39%. by 2007, for the first time, more than half of the global population were living in an urban setting. and here in 2024, that number is now nearly 60%. it's projected to be 68% by the middle of this century.

and if that trend continues, more than 80%, or four in five of us, will be living in towns or cities by 2080. that means there'll be six times as many big cities with a population of more than a million people. but some regions are becoming more urban than others. south america, for example. it's the most urbanised continent, with 85% of people living in towns and cities. while in africa it's around 46%. and we're going to hear from our colleagues in lagos as well as sao paulo in a moment. but first, let's head to india. we know that country is the world's most populous, but it's still very rural. fewer than 40% of indians live in an urban setting, but that is changing rapidly. here's our business correspondent in delhi. here in delhi, india's capital is one of the fastest growing cities in the world. and it's estimated that in the next few years, it is also going to become the most populous, with a

population of over 37 million. now, with more people, of course, there's growth and development, but there are also challenges, like more people jostling for space with limited resources. over the past few years, we've seen this region see property prices rise at over 30%. every summer delhi also battles a water crisis because the only river that supplies water to the city has seen its levels deplete over the years. and the biggest challenge? delhi became the most polluted capital city in the world last year, and experts say it's because environmental norms are not properly enforced in the city. so while india remains one of the fastest growing economies in the world, this growth is also coming at a cost. this is lagos, nigeria's commercial nerve centre, and home to an estimated 21 million people. listed amongst africa's most populous cities, traffic congestion is a major challenge. motorists spend an average of four hours commuting daily, with a huge, negative

impact on productivity. as one of africa's fastest growing cities, lagos is also marred with a public transportation issue. the yearly rainy season exposes one of lagos�*s biggest challenges, which is recurrent flooding. as has been the case with other parts of the world, people's lives are being disrupted by heavy rains. experts say a combination of questionable urban planning, poor waste management and climate change have worsened the flood issues. here in sao paulo, brazil and latin america's biggest and wealthiest city, inequality is a significant issue. one of every four homeless persons in brazil lives in the streets of sao paulo. this coexistence of affluence and poverty contributes to another serious problem — violence. robbery rates reached a record high last year in downtown sao paulo. but violence is not the only problem at the city centre. sao paulo authorities have struggled for years to deal with an open air drug market

called cracolandia, literally crack land, where over a thousand crack cocaine consumers live and where drug dealers work openly. 0k, some views from around the world there. so let's now turn to my first guest, who's one of the world's top urban experts. he's worked with 400 cities to help them steer through the, well, the challenges of growing through changing times and changing populations. professor greg clark, great to have you with us. and, greg, let me start with this, just the obvious — why are cities so important? because obviously they're home to huge numbers of people. but what is it about this kind of living environment that gives cities the, well, their wider reach and their impact? there's a magic to cities, which is that by concentrating people and jobs and infrastructure and buildings and amenities together, they start to magnify and multiply each other, creating morejobs, more opportunities, more interactions, more relationships and connectivity

underpins all of that. but because of that magic, we're living now in a kind of century of cities. this is the biggest industry in our world for the next 50 years. building and making and operating and running cities is the thing that's going to attract the most capital. it's going to attract the most attention. it's where the big opportunities are. and, greg, if we're going to see this projected growth, and even further over the coming decades, i mean, how do cities prepare to cope with the growing populations? there's two versions of urbanisation. there's what we might call bad urbanisation, where population growth outstrips the capacity of the city and its housing supply, its transport systems, its energy and its utilities. but if we can plan well for population growth and we can think about the economic change that's going on, then we can get good urbanisation.

we know one challenge many cities have in common is how to house these ever growing populations. so i've got to ask you, greg, how do they address building sustainably in a way that people and especially key workers can afford? there's only really four ways that any city can accommodate population growth. the first thing is it can sprawl. the second way you can do it is by building new cities. and there's been lots of experiments in building new towns, new capital cities. the third way is that you can build up in cities. you can really increase the density in our cities. the fourth way, though, is that you can connect the existing city with neighbouring suburbs, cities and towns in a kind of networked approach, which allows them to benefit from having good transport systems that link things together. and, greg, we've seen many cities struggle

from one part of a city to

another almost for any purpose that they want at any time of day in any volume. 0r whether the effects of them doing that on the air quality, on pollution, on the health of the majority and the contribution that that makes to carbon emissions, whether as it were locally democratically elected governments have the right to try to reduce the incentive to do that by imposing fines. we've seen many cities struggle with urban decline, you've got rust belt cities in the us, birmingham in the uk, turin in italy. what can be done to drive fresh investment into those cities?— those cities? the built environment - those cities? the built environment in - those cities? the built environment in our . those cities? the built - environment in our cities, not just housing but all the corporate real estate, all the big facilities, all of the infrastructure including the transport infrastructure and utilities, the water, waste, energy systems, these are

massive investment assets. urban revitalisation is a big opportunity notjust for opportunity not just for governments to opportunity notjust for governments to take a lead in making the city livable, investable and connected again, but it's also a massive business opportunity for investors, for corporate and for small enterprises that want to pilot new open solutions. what scope is therefore cities to become self—sufficient hubs for any g generation? to become self-sufficient hubs for any g generation?- for any g generation? every ci in for any g generation? every city in the — for any g generation? every city in the world _ for any g generation? every city in the world has - for any g generation? every city in the world has a - city in the world has a different opportunity to create much more self—sufficiency in terms of energy. as we know, our energy systems are beginning to decentralise. the introduction particularly of the solar in the hot countries of the world is enabling both individual buildings, whole districts of cities and whole cities to move towards energy independence. the second one is the geothermal energy that

exists under the ground and we see this increasingly in scandinavia, we see this happening in spain and we also see geothermal being a solution in canada and in north america. in other parts of the world, he has to come from other kinds of renewables, including in particular hydro and wind, not necessarily energy generated within the city but energy generated close to the city. let me and on this, what makes some of the world's top city is really popular places to live and work? can you name some? there are a number consistently voted as the best cities in the world to live. 0ne voted as the best cities in the world to live. one of them of course is singapore, another one is vienna, another one is vancouver and of course a fourth is melbourne in australia. it's extraordinary what has been happening there in terms of the energy transition, where the city and its leaders are working together so closely with the

business community, the utility companies, the superannuation funds and others, to prove that the business and of making cities really exciting isjust as important for business as it is for population as well. on that note, greg clark, chair of the connected places catapult, great to have you on the show. we'll check in with you soon. thank you very much, aaron. it's been a pleasure. so, melbourne, i don't know about that. i'm from sydney, we've got the gorgeous harbour. and for people who don't know, sydney and melbourne, we've always had a very friendly rivalry. but i have to say, melbourne, i mean, it is a ringing endorsement from greg clark there. so coming up after the break and staying with melbourne, of victoria, a city with one in five of australia's population. it's known as the garden city. yep, i decided to catch up with its lord mayor. sally capp, a real pleasure having you on the show. and, sally, let me

start with this. i've got to tell you, this is probably one of the hardest interviews i've done in many years. and i say that because i am from sydney, born and bred. but your city, melbourne, it consistently enjoys a top ten place in global liveability rankings. i've got to ask you, why do you think that is? what's so special about melbourne? melbourne has put an enormous effort into being a liveable city. we came from the �*80s and early �*90s, er, a financial crisis, a time when the city was described as a moribund city in a rust bucket state. it doesn't get much worse than that, aaron. and, er, the city leaders at the time, together with other levels of government and private sector leaders, decided we had to do better. we've really focused on being the original is—minute suburbs so that people can access education, health services, employment, leisure, study, all within a is—minute radius.

and we continue to invest in elements like active transport, greening the city, elements that we know are vitally important for liveable cities. and, sally, you've been lord mayor for six years. and, of course, melbourne has been a top place to live for many years. what's your personal legacy for the city? that's a really big question, given that the, you know, last few years have included the very extreme circumstances of the pandemic. in fact, aaron, we're one of the cities with the most days experienced in lockdown. it was very, very traumatic. and so, for me, a majorfocus has been kick—starting the city and then resetting the city for a new trajectory, a new rhythm, a different future, but in many ways also a better future following that major shock.

within that, though, there are some key projects. one of them is called make room, which is to provide housing and support services and dignity for people rough sleeping in our city. another big project which has a long legacy is called greenline, and it's the rejuvenation of 4km of the north bank of our yarra river that goes through the centre of our city into beautiful nature, open spaces and places for events. and, sally, correct me if i'm wrong here, but i understand that since covid, the heart of melbourne, it's become very popular at weekends, indeed busier than during the week. and i kind of think that's a problem, isn't it? because i'm just wondering, how do you get the public sector workers back into the office? the new rhythm of the city really is a reflection of the different ways that people are working.

and, frankly, we have to embrace flexible working. it is here to stay. we championed flexible working for decades prior to the pandemic. from our perspective, we want people to want to come back, aaron, so all of our initiatives and investments are really focused around the other things that people want to do in the city. and, sally, let's talk about sport, because we know melbourne has amazing stadiums. it's home to, well, most of australia's biggest afl clubs — football, for our global viewers. it's a multibillion dollar industry. but your state government concluded that it couldn't host the commonwealth games. sally, did you fight that decision? the decision by state government about the commonwealth games was really a difficult one to accept and understand at the time. one of our strengths is the quality and quantity

of sporting and event infrastructure available within our city. and we're the only city in the world that hosts both a formula i grand prix and a tennis grand slam. and that's reallyjust the tip of the iceberg for being able to host 100,000 fans to see taylor swift or ed sheeran in any one time through to, you mentioned the afl, where the average audience in ourstadium is... last season was 73,000. we really can do things at scale. and, sally, let me end on this.

from our perspective, of course, economic activity and returns on our investments in those types of events is absolutely critical. melbourne is also known _ absolutely critical. melbourne is also known for _ absolutely critical. melbourne is also known for its - absolutely critical. melbourne is also known for its art - absolutely critical. melbourne is also known for its art and i is also known for its art and culture but also for your widespread graffiti, which, let's be frank, it isn't loved by all your citizens. does it add or take away from melbourne's reputation and how are you managing that side of melbourne's reality?— melbourne's reality? let's be really clear — melbourne's reality? let's be really clear here. _ melbourne's reality? let's be really clear here. there - melbourne's reality? let's be really clear here. there is - really clear here. there is street art, which we love here in melbourne. we are renowned

for street art. for recognising the talents of so many artists who literally take over our laneway is particularly and in fact, during covid, we took the opportunity to commission more street art. a beautiful murals and artworks with another 40 laneway �*s transformed during those quiet times. what we don't tolerate his tagging and graffiti. it is illegal and we are putting more effort than ever before into removing tagging and graffiti from across our city. and, sally, let me end on this. i mean, you're stepping down injune, so i've got to ask you, what's left undone? what's on the in—tray for your successor? and what's your message to them? we've got major projects that go over years. i mentioned greenline earlier. rejuvenation of the north bank of the yarra, queen victoria market,

our major open—air market, and new commercial residential and retail precinct, in the city. there's just a never—ending list of things that need to be done urgently. for example, retrofitting of current commercial buildings, they're top emitters in our city. currently about seven buildings a year being converted, and that needs to be 80 if we're going to hit our target of being a zero net city by 2040. sally capp, the lord mayor of melbourne, fabulous to have you on the show. good luck with everything and we really appreciate your time. thanks for your interest. go, melbourne! ok, so how do we build and adapt the structures to house the residents and the workers of the world's great cities? and especially given the need to be, well, more sustainable, with buildings that chew up less energy than ever before. well, that's the challenge facing the construction

industry and especially architects, using state—of—the art computer—aided design technology. well, i decided to speak with the big boss of the world's biggest software designer for architects. andrew anagnost, great to have you on the show. and, andrew, let me start with this, because this week's show, we've been looking at the future of cities and some of the big challenges facing urban planners. so i have to ask you, how do these challenges, how do they affect your business model? the cities of the future are going to be very different, but also very similar to what we have today. and some of these challenges you talk about are pretty fundamental. 0ne, cities need to be greener. they need to be more sustainable. energy efficient. they need to be managed more effectively. but also, every single city in the modern world is suffering from infrastructure that needs to either be maintained, rebuilt or built from scratch to meet new demands. and, of course, one of the big changes that we've seen since the pandemic, andrew, is, of course, the big rise of working from home

and the knock—on effect on office space. how has that affected the way your customers use your software? it's shifted some of the emphasis from, in urban planning, to reconfiguring spaces for either new types of occupancy or actually new types of use. some facilities that were commercial office space are now turning into residential units. so what people are doing are focusing a lot on reconfiguring space and redesigning the space. and they're using our software to do that. let's now look at the big path towards net zero, because in europe they have the green buildings directive. older buildings now have to comply with these very tough emission targets by 2030. andrew, how do you help make that happen? the way you have to deal with existing infrastructure is you've got to scan it, you've got to understand it and you've got to have suggestions on how to build it. so we help with the scan, analyse and recommend part of the problems here. and if we look at some

countries, i mean, let's take italy as an example. it has a vast number of older buildings. andrew, how can historic buildings be brought up to greener goals without destroying the character of those buildings? that's a really tough problem, aaron, right? because you want the building to maintain its look, its historic authenticity and all the things associated with it. but at the same time, some of these buildings are really leaky from an energy perspective. let's take aside stained glass and all the beautiful type things like that. how do you create a more efficient window environment for these buildings while still maintaining the authenticity? this will create kind of whole new opportunities for people to build multi—pane windows that actually look like authentic older windows, or people will be coming up with technologies to add glazing or extra panes behind stained glass that make those windows actually act like a multi—pane window. we know in many places there is a real lack

of affordable housing. how do you support your customers to fulfil the housing requirements that are just so vitally needed today? there's lots of complexity in the housing industry, but what we are very passionate about at autodesk is helping people figure out how to build these houses more efficiently, with less materials and more effectively. we are very interested in helping people industrialise how they build houses. and what i mean by that is taking some of the lessons learned from the manufacturing industry and applying them to the construction industry so that you can actually build cheaper, more sustainable homes on a more rapid basis than you ever had before. and, andrew, let me end on this. in 20 years' time, will our cities as we know them today, will they be vastly different? will they look different, act differently? they will likely be vastly different. i think they will be hyper connected cities. 20 years from now, who knows if we still have cars? you just don't know how

the world's going to evolve. but if we still have cars, the cities will actually manage the flows of the cars through them. there's going to be greenery inside the cities., er, urban farms on top of roofs. there's going to be more sustainable buildings. there's going to be new types of roads and infrastructure. people don't have enough money, people or materials/resources to build and rebuild everything that needs to be built. so we've got to solve that problem today so that we can get through this capacity problem, so that we can get to that bright future in 20 years. well, on that point, andrew anagnost, the big boss of autodesk, great to have you on the show. good luck with everything and we'll check in with you soon. thank you, aaron. it's been a pleasure. well that's it for this week's show. i hope you enjoyed it. don't forget you can keep up with the latest on our global economy on the bbc website or the smartphone app. of course, you can also follow me on x. x me. i'll x you back. you can get me at @bbcaaron. thanks for watching. i'll see you soon. bye— bye.

hello there. although temperatures in north—west scotland reached 19 degrees on saturday, other parts of scotland were not as lucky. in argyll and bute it was a lot chillier. here we had temperatures of 23 degrees on friday but it was back down to 15 at best on saturday. further south though it felt a lot warmer because the sun was out — bedford one of the warmest parts of the country. we've got a bit of fair cloud and a little rain heading into the south—west of england by the morning, pushing into wales, eventually towards the south—east of england, but ahead of that, plenty of sunshine, mist and fog patches clearing, cloud will bubble up, the odd shower perhaps. we have more cloud though and more showers come into scotland and the far north of england. should be a bit drier and maybe brighter across northern ireland. but the highest temperatures are going to be across northern england and into the midlands, 18 or 19 degrees here, with some sunny spells. could be a bit of a sneezy day, mind you. we are moving into the grass pollen season and pollen levels are going to be high across the midlands and southern england,

even though in the south, we're going to find a bit more cloud just dampening down the temperatures. most of that rain we see here will fade away during the evening but we will import some rain from the continent later on in the night and we've still got those heavy showers pushing down across scotland and into the far north of england. then, for the bank holiday monday morning, temperatures are going to start at around eight or 9 degrees. fly in the ointment on bank holiday monday is that weather front there, it's not really moving very far at all and around it, we are pushing in more cloud and probably more rain actually for south—eastern parts of england into central southern england and in towards the midlands. still got cloud and heavy showers in scotland, the far north of england. maybe staying dry but maybe cloudy in northern ireland and across other parts of northern england, wales, the midlands, towards the south—west, there will be some heavy and thundery, slow—moving showers in the afternoon. 0n the whole, more showers around for bank holiday monday, temperatures not quite so high, almost anywhere could catch a shower. tuesday though looks a little bit drier. we have still got the odd

shower around across scotland, into northern england, the midlands, perhaps into wales, but not as many showers, not as heavy showers. the south and south—east are looking dry and warm, it may well be dry in northern ireland once again. and the theme as we head further into next week is for high pressure to build and that means things for many of us will turn dry, there will be some sunshine and those temperatures will be climbing as well.

live from washington, this is bbc news: negotiations continue in cairo to try and work out a deal between hamas and israel as fighting drags on in the gaza strip. anti—war protests at us universities spill into some graduation ceremonies. and a nail—biter in elections in england —

labour win the mayoral contest in the west midlands capping a bleak set of local election results for the conservatives. hello. i'm carl nasman. efforts are intensifying to secure a deal for the release of hostages and a ceasefire in gaza as the israel—hamas war approaches the seven—month mark. a delegation of hamas negotiators arrived in cairo on saturday. cia director william burns is also in the egyptian capital to mediate. the talks are reported to have ended for the day, with a senior hamas official telling the afp news agency there have been no developments. let's take a look, though, at where things stand. the main sticking point is whether a ceasefire deal will be permanent or temporary. a hamas official says the group will not agree to a truce that does not fully end the gaza war. israel is reluctant to agree to this. israeli forces remain active in gaza. mediators have been waiting for hamas to respond to an israeli proposal to halt the fighting for 40 days and to exchange hostages, for

palestinian prisoners.