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tv   BBC News Now  BBC News  May 14, 2024 2:00pm-2:31pm BST

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where mps pass a controversial law that critics say will silence dissent. america's top diplomat is on a surprise visit to the ukrainian capital, kyiv, and promises a new package of us weapons will make a difference there. donald trump's criminal hush money trial to resume shortly, with the star witness michael cohen back in the stand for a second day. hello. i'm ben brown. welcome to bbc news now, three hours of fast—moving news, interviews and reaction. let's interviews and reaction. start with in georgia. georgia's parliament has approved a bill on "foreign agents" that has provoked a political crisis
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in the country. this has happened in the last couple of hours. there were scuffles and punches thrown inside the parliament, and large crowds gathered to protest outside it. the new law would force civil society groups and media organisations to declare foreign funding. opponents fear it will be used to silence dissent. the bill now faces a likely veto by georgia's president, but parliament can override that by holding another vote, forcing the law through. this really is an issue that has divided georgia. let's go live to our correspondent rayhan demytrie, who is in tbilisi. i know it is very noisy there, there have been dramatic scenes outside the parliament and inside, scuffles, as i say, but the final upshot is this law has just been passed in the
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parliament? this law has “ust been passed in the parliament?— this law has 'ust been passed in the parliament?— parliament? that's right, there is a dramatic scene, _ parliament? that's right, there is a dramatic scene, you _ parliament? that's right, there is a dramatic scene, you can _ parliament? that's right, there is a dramatic scene, you can see - parliament? that's right, there is a dramatic scene, you can see this i parliament? that's right, there is a dramatic scene, you can see this is| dramatic scene, you can see this is the entrance to the main avenue that leads to parliament. riot police are ready with water cannon here and the protesters also have moved, they are quite angry, they are coming, addressing the riot police and saying these are our children, young protesters that have been demonstrated for nearly three weeks against the law, will you really move in and try to disperse them? we know that government was adamant to pass this law, they pass this law with 84 votes. georgia's ceremonial president said she will veto it but the georgian dream government has enough power in parliament to overrule edge. the riot police are
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getting ready, holding up their shields and you can hear the announcement, the warning in georgian for protesters to disperse and a warning that police might start using special means, as they say, to disperse protesters. just . ive say, to disperse protesters. just cive us say, to disperse protesters. just give us the _ say, to disperse protesters. just give us the bigger picture. this is clearly a controversial law, but a law which its opponents fear will push georgia into a kind of russian orbit and away from the west, away from the european union and many of those protesters want to join the eu but fear that this law will in the end stop georgia from becoming part of the european union?— of the european union? that's right. the reason — of the european union? that's right. the reason why _ of the european union? that's right. the reason why it _ of the european union? that's right. the reason why it has _ of the european union? that's right. the reason why it has become - of the european union? that's right. the reason why it has become such. of the european union? that's right. | the reason why it has become such a contentious issue here in georgia, because most of the protesters and
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see it as a major turn in georgia's foreign policy and we can see that the riot police is moving closer to this street that leads to the parliament with this warning voice coming from the water cannons, warning the protesters to disperse. protesters have been saying that this is potentially a turning point for their country and an existential threat, it is notjust the law they are worried about but also a major turn for georgia's foreign policy. nobody out of these protesters that have been following for all these weeks, they are saying there is no way that georgia is going back to the ussr, all back to russia's orbit. what they want is a european
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future for their country and european flags have been featured in all the protests. you can see it everywhere. now we can see the riot police is moving closer to the main protest area which is about 50 metres from where we are now, they are also being followed by the water cannons. riot police is also on the other side of the street, areas closer to the main parliament building. closer to the main parliament buildinu. ,, , ,, building. horns drone speech. -- horns drown — building. horns drone speech. -- horns drown speech. _ building. horns drone speech. -- horns drown speech. studio: i building. horns drone speech. -- i
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horns drown speech. studio: we building. horns drone speech. -- - horns drown speech. studio: we can see the scenes outside the parliament in tbilisi, and as our correspond wasjust parliament in tbilisi, and as our correspond was just telling us, a stand—off between the riot police and protesters. ever since georgia got independence from the soviet union it has faced violence and now there are fears that this could once again spill into violence in the streets of tbilisi, and as we just heard, this is a moment of truth for georgia, a passing of this legislation, because as rayhan said, georgia will follow the pattern russian search with its law on so—called foreign agents passed back in 2012, effectively cracking down on dissent in russia. this is similar legislation that has been forced through the russian parliament which is why it has provoked such strong emotions on the streets of tbilisi, as you can see.
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so many fears that this will ultimately stop georgia from becoming a member of the european union and many georgians are desperate to be part of the eu, part of the worst and get out of the orbit of russia and president putin. 0ur correspondents in tbilisi, rayhan demytrie, i don't know if you can still hear me, it is very noisy where you are, i know, butjust explain the situation as you see it now with the riot police and protesters. brute now with the riot police and protesters-_ now with the riot police and rotesters. ~ . . ., . protesters. we are at the entrance to the main — protesters. we are at the entrance to the main avenue _ protesters. we are at the entrance to the main avenue which - protesters. we are at the entrance to the main avenue which leads . protesters. we are at the entrance i to the main avenue which leads about 50 metres from where i am now to the parliament building. it has been a focal point for the mass protests that swept georgia ever since the government decided to reintroduce the so—called foreign agents bill,
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dubbed by protesters as the russian law. and half an hour after the government pass this law, riot police is moving in closer to the parliament area where there are thousands of protesters a bit further down the street. it really shows, as the protesters have been worrying, they have been referring to that government is their russian government, they believe that georgian dream is acting in russia's interests by pushing ahead with its law which so many people have been protesting for almost three weeks. can you give us an idea, those protesters, are they representative of many people in georgia? too many people agree with what the protesters are saying, do you think, that they don't want to see this
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law? —— do many people agree? more law? -- do many people agree? more than 8096 of — law? -- do many people agree? more than 8096 of the — law? -- do many people agree? more than 8096 of the georgian _ than 80% of the georgian population, it is a small country, but the vast majority, more than 80%, want to see their country as part of the european union. but there is deep polarisation and also lots of misinformation that has been coming from the government too through their pro—government channels. a couple of days ago the prime minister of this country cited their own survey they conducted and claimed that more than 60% of the population in georgia supposedly supports this law, but that is not what we have seen in the past few weeks. we have seen mass protests. a couple of days ago they were attended by tens of thousands of
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people that came out specifically to say no to what they have described as the russian law. and what you are seeing now could also be interpreted by the protesters as a russian method. these are peaceful protesters, they are exercising their right of assembly so now the protesters are chanting the name of their country in georgian. 0ver that side, if we can show, it has reached the parliament area and this is where the vast majority of protesters have been gathering for all this time. riot police is now moving closer to the parliament area to clear it from the protesters. this announcement you are hearing is
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a warning to the protesters to disperse, otherwise they are saying the police will use it means to disperse the protesters. the police have used water cannons and pepper spray, you can see they are holding tear gas in the hands and they have useditin tear gas in the hands and they have used it in the past, because these protests that have been going on for more than three weeks, some of the protesters are trying to stop the riot police by holding the georgian flag. they are moving in. you can see there are many more riot police behind the vehicles. now we have approached the parliament and i would like to show you that on this side, look at the number of riot police on this side, hundreds more that are closing in to this protest
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area. right at the entrance to the parliament, i don't know if we can pick it up with the camera, but now they are moving in. i think itjust indicates that they clearly have the orders to disperse the protests, because immediately after the government voted in for this law there were calls right here in the square for those government to step down and calls for a national strike. it is endless, what i can see on this side, there is no end to the rows and rows of riot police that are closing into this area. and now if we show... they had stopped
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now. you see the riot police on this side and the protesters on this side. ., ., r' side and the protesters on this side. . ., i. i. side and the protesters on this side. . ., i. ,~/ ., side and the protesters on this side. . ., ., ., side. can i ask you, you are doing a fantastic job — side. can i ask you, you are doing a fantastic job explaining _ side. can i ask you, you are doing a fantastic job explaining what - side. can i ask you, you are doing a fantastic job explaining what is - fantasticjob explaining what is going on, and very dramatic scenes on the streets of tbilisi with all those riot police moving in and all the protesters, but we saw inside the protesters, but we saw inside the parliament too members of parliament scuffling with each other, punching each other, it is notjust other, punching each other, it is not just outside the other, punching each other, it is notjust outside the parliament but inside the parliament, real tension over this measure and this bill which has now been passed into law? that's right. there were verbal and physical altercations between the pro—government and opposition mps. this is the site of the protest,
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they are folding their arms together to form this chain on this side, and they are chanting the word for georgia in georgian. it is a real confrontation that is building up here right outside the georgian parliament, and i can see there is new graffiti on the parliament building, we were herejust new graffiti on the parliament building, we were here just one new graffiti on the parliament building, we were herejust one hour ago and it was not here, but perhaps because there have been warnings from the interior ministry that if any damages caused to the strategic object, in this case the parliament building, if protesters attempt to
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break into the... crowd shouts. let me translate what the are crowd shouts. let me translate what they are shouting. _ crowd shouts. let me translate what they are shouting, they _ crowd shouts. let me translate what they are shouting, they are _ crowd shouts. let me translate what they are shouting, they are saying - they are shouting, they are saying georgia without the russian law, georgia without the russian law, georgia for the european union. crowd chants: sa kartvelo! sakartvelo! crowd chants: sakartvelo! sakartvelot— crowd chants: sakartvelo! sakartvelo! ., , , ., sakartvelo! now the protesters have decided to move _ sakartvelo! now the protesters have decided to move closer— sakartvelo! now the protesters have decided to move closer to _ sakartvelo! now the protesters have decided to move closer to the - sakartvelo! now the protesters have decided to move closer to the riot i decided to move closer to the riot police. decided to move closer to the riot olice. ., , , decided to move closer to the riot olice. . , , ., police. rayhan, 'ust while they do that, what police. rayhan, just while they do that, what happens _ police. rayhan, just while they do that, what happens now - police. rayhan, just while they do that, what happens now to - police. rayhan, just while they do that, what happens now to this i police. rayhan, just while they do i that, what happens now to this law? it has been passed by the
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parliament, it goes to the president who has said she will veto it but we understand that that veto can then be overwritten by another vote in parliament? in other words, this law will go through whether the president vetoes it or not? that's ri . ht. the president vetoes it or not? that's right. the presidential— president vetoes it or not? that's right. the presidential veto - president vetoes it or not? that's right. the presidential veto will. right. the presidential veto will just (inaudible) a couple of weeks' time before the georgian dream dominated parliament will overwrite it, and that is what the prime minister has said. we know that the president who is seen as pro—western, but she is a ceremonial president who does not have executive powers, she has also called this a russian law. she has described being used in georgia russian methods, because prior to
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the passing of the law that has been a serious campaign of intimidation against the activists come at the very ngos being targeted, non—government organisations being targeted by the legislation. ijust want to show you, they are literally 20 metres apart, the riot (inaudible) water cannons and tear gas ready to move in with their gas masks on their sides, anotherfront, move in with their gas masks on theirsides, anotherfront, if move in with their gas masks on their sides, anotherfront, if we can call it that, rows and rows of riot police and the protesters facing off with their own police. it is quite tense. we know these protesters have been saying over and over that they will stand their
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ground, they believe they are fighting for their country's feature and that this government is somehow under russia's influence, that the most powerful man in georgia, a billionaire, founder of the georgian dream party who made his riches and wealth in russia in the 1990s, therefore when you ask people why do you call them the russians, they always point to the fact that it is the billionaire founder, bidzina ivanishvili, who recently made a speech at this very squire, a very anti—western speech full of conspiracy theories. now they are starting to chant something which means russians, russians. rayhan, we
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heard from the — means russians, russians. rayhan, we heard from the kremlin _ means russians, russians. rayhan, we heard from the kremlin spokesman - heard from the kremlin spokesman dmitry petrov who said this is an internal matter for georgia, we do not want to interfere that in any way, but clearly those protesters believe russia is interfering very much? we believe russia is interfering very much? ~ . believe russia is interfering very much? ,,'., , believe russia is interfering very much? i, much? we can ask any person standing here holding — much? we can ask any person standing here holding arm _ much? we can ask any person standing here holding arm to _ much? we can ask any person standing here holding arm to arm, _ much? we can ask any person standing here holding arm to arm, holding - here holding arm to arm, holding their ground, any person standing here why do they think that government is pro—russian and they will say because the government has been ignoring these protests and people have been protesting for over three weeks and we have heard statements from dmitry peskov and other russian officials, the foreign minister, the speaker of the russian
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duma supporting the bill and saying it is in georgia's interests, sovereign rights, to pass the bill. we asked the protesters... do you speak english? no? guys, can i ask you a question? usually lots of them speak english, but i can tell by their body language that the protesters are very angry and i can't see from here, i can try and jump can't see from here, i can try and jump but it looks like there are more and more protestersjoining on this side, we will try to show you what is happening on their side.
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rayhan, part of the reason i think they are so angry is that they worry that this law will prevent georgia ultimatelyjoining the european ultimately joining the european union, ultimatelyjoining the european union, because that is the dream of those people that you are with, those people that you are with, those protesters, they want to be part of europe and the west rather than under russia's orbit. and we have heard from the united states, the uk, germany and france, they have all urged the withdrawal of this bill but the bill has been passed and it looks like it is law and will be confirmed as law, but suppose the question i now is what happens on the streets where you are, whether these protests and the potential clashes for the riot police could turn to violence? it is
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lookin: police could turn to violence? it 3 looking increasingly so. i can tell you and you can see the pictures but also the feeling here is quite tense. we are now seeing the protesters have moved what looks like a barricade. it is bbc news, do you want to tell us what is your feeling? about what it's my feeling? my feeling? about what it's my feeling? my feelings are all for my country. we fight my feelings are all for my country. wefiiih, , my feelings are all for my country. wefiinh , ., my feelings are all for my country. wefiiih, , ., ., my feelings are all for my country. wefi.h., , ., ., we fight because, how do i say, it is really hard _ we fight because, how do i say, it is really hard to _ we fight because, how do i say, it is really hard to say _ we fight because, how do i say, it is really hard to say against - we fight because, how do i say, it is really hard to say against front l is really hard to say against front with these — is really hard to say against front with these people because our race is really— with these people because our race is really corrupt. they are straight russian _ is really corrupt. they are straight russian. the people are united, we will never_ russian. the people are united, we will never be disunited. we are reunited — will never be disunited. we are reunited by now. my english isn't really— reunited by now. my english isn't really good. thank you for your service — really good. thank you for your service. ., ~ really good. thank you for your service. ., ,, , ., really good. thank you for your service. ., ,, i. really good. thank you for your service. . ~' . �* really good. thank you for your service. ., . ~ service. thank you so much. are you worried that — service. thank you so much. are you worried that with _ service. thank you so much. are you worried that with the _ service. thank you so much. are you worried that with the adoption - service. thank you so much. are you worried that with the adoption of- worried that with the adoption of this law that georgia will lose the
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opportunity to join the eu? indie this law that georgia will lose the opportunity to join the eu? opportunity to 'oin the eu? we will lose, but opportunity to 'oin the eu? we will lose. but we — opportunity to join the eu? we will lose, but we will— opportunity to join the eu? we will lose, but we will show _ opportunity to join the eu? we will lose, but we will show that - lose, but we will show that (inaudible) and we will be in the eu, freedom to the georgians!— and we will be in the eu, freedom to the georgians! ben, you get a sense, the georgians! ben, you get a sense, the are the georgians! ben, you get a sense, they are moving _ the georgians! ben, you get a sense, they are moving more _ the georgians! ben, you get a sense, they are moving more intensely, - they are moving more intensely, maybe we will step to the side here because now the police are all moving in closer to the protesters, there are lots ofjournalists, cameras here. it is getting more and more tense. he says go up, go up.
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we are being pushed by the police and they have intensified their walk, they are moving faster. be careful, the floor is slippery. it looks like they might clash. that is the scene. — looks like they might clash. that is the scene. just _ looks like they might clash. that is the scene, just 12 _ looks like they might clash. that is the scene, just 12 rayhan - looks like they might clash. that is the scene, just 12 rayhan yes, | the scene, 'ust 12 rayhan yes, ben, i the scene, 'ust 12 rayhan yes, sen. i can — the scene, just 12 rayhan yes, ben. i can see _ the scene, just 12 rayhan yes, ben, i can see that _ the scene, just 12 rayhan yes, ben, i can see that the _ the scene, just 12 rayhan 1a: ben, i can see that the protesters are throwing... ok, we are trying to move, so it looks like police are under orders to definitely disperse the protesters, and the protesters are beginning to boo, they are being pushed a wife —— away from this squire. i have never seen so much
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police in this square. they are coming from all sides, it is all black on all sides. it is black and the protesters in their colourful raincoats. now we can see the protesters are trying to throw some objects at the police. they are throwing eggs, the protesters are throwing eggs, the protesters are throwing eggs, the protesters are throwing eggs at the police, which means that they might lose their special means. angela, now the protesters are holding up their hands to show that they are peaceful —— and luke, now the protesters are. this is such a dramatic scene, i hope you can still hear it. indie this is such a dramatic scene, i hope you can still hear it. we can. so the riot — hope you can still hear it. we can. so the riot police, _ hope you can still hear it. we can. so the riot police, all _ hope you can still hear it. we can. so the riot police, all in _ hope you can still hear it. we can. so the riot police, all in black, - so the riot police, all in black, and to my right is just so the riot police, all in black, and to my right isjust an
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so the riot police, all in black, and to my right is just an endless stream of protesters. this whole thoroughfare is full of protesters and they are now clapping. so now the police are saying to move them from here. just the police are saying to move them from here. , , i. the police are saying to move them from here, , ,, . the police are saying to move them from here, , , ., ., ., from here. just while you are moving back, i will— from here. just while you are moving back, i willjust _ from here. just while you are moving back, i willjust let _ from here. just while you are moving back, i willjust let you _ from here. just while you are moving back, i willjust let you move - from here. just while you are moving back, i willjust let you move away i back, i willjust let you move away as the police are asking you to do. let remind our viewers what we are seeing, these are scenes outside the georgian parliament in tbilisi and the riot police have moved in in huge numbers as our corresponded rayhan demytrie has been telling us. they are facing off against the protesters there around the georgian parliament. because the georgian parliament has just passed the third and final reading of what it's called a foreign agent bill. this has now become law and the reason it is so controversial as opponents of
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this law see it as a russian law, they compare it to russian legislation that has been used to crush dissent inside russia, to target critics of president putin and now these protesters outside the georgian parliament say that a similar law has been passed in georgia which will crush dissent in georgia which will crush dissent in georgia too and also they fear that in the long term this will mean that georgia cannotjoin the european union, and those protesters dream of being part of the eu, some 80% of georgians are said to want to join the eu but they fear that this repressive legislation as they see it would stop georgia ultimately everjoining the european union. the russian spokesman at the kremlin, dmitry peskov, said this is an
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internalfor dmitry peskov, said this is an internal for georgia, dmitry peskov, said this is an internalfor georgia, we dmitry peskov, said this is an internal for georgia, we do dmitry peskov, said this is an internalfor georgia, we do not want to interfere in any way but those protesters dispute that. they believe this is very much russian interference that the government in georgia is effectively a puppet government for the russians. let's now speak to an associate fellow at the royal united services institute who previously worked for georgia's security council. we spoke to you earlier, what is your reaction to the news that firstly this has gone through parliament, it is now law, and secondly that the riot police are there in such force to make sure that the protesters do not get anywhere near the georgian parliament?— anywhere near the georgian parliament? ., ,, , ., , . anywhere near the georgian parliament? ., ,, , . ., parliament? thank you very much for havin: me parliament? thank you very much for having me again- _ parliament? thank you very much for having me again. it _ parliament? thank you very much for having me again. it is _ parliament? thank you very much for having me again. it is very _ having me again. it is very disappointing obviously, it was expected that the parliament would
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have voted for this, but given the outrage, so many people gathered in front of the parliament for so many days and expressing they are not in favour of this, it is extremely disappointing that the government has not listened to its people and now we see more people are gathering together and people coming from different parts of georgia to join the protest and rally against this law as long as it takes, and i do not think that the use of force will deter these people to go out and fight against this law, because georgians see this as an existential threat of georgia's feature, its democratic development and its eu aspirations. you democratic development and its eu asirations. ., _ , democratic development and its eu asirations. ., , , aspirations. you say they see it as an existential— aspirations. you say they see it as an existential threat _ aspirations. you say they see it as an existential threat for _ aspirations. you say they see it as an existential threat for the - aspirations. you say they see it as an existential threat for the future of georgia, but why is this law, in their view, so dangerous? georgia
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has undergone _ their view, so dangerous? georgia has undergone a _ their view, so dangerous? georgia has undergone a round _ their view, so dangerous? georgia has undergone a round of - their view, so dangerous? georgia has undergone a round of reforms| their view, so dangerous? georgia i has undergone a round of reforms to become democratic and to get closer to the eu and nato and it has been georgia's declared ambition and it is written in the constitution that georgia is willing and aspiring to join the eu under nato. so this law comes fundamentally against these aspirations because this law provides the government a very powerful tool to repress and to put an extreme amount of pressure. what we see so far is these actors, very significant actors in any democracy, of already under very heavy pressure and what we have heard also from partner nations is georgia should not do this, should it want to stay on the european membership, eu membership track, and unfortunately
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the government is doing

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