for those just joining for thosejustjoining us, you are watching bbc news. you are watching continuing live pictures from tbilisi outside of the parliament building, where in the last hour also we have seen this controversial bill become law. let me show you more of the live pictures, so many feeds coming into the bbc. as well as the cameras on the protest is the parliament building is ringed with security forces, so many of them with riot shields, with water cannon and we have seen some protesters wearing gas masks in preparation. these protests have been going on for weeks, these protests have been going on forweeks, it these protests have been going on for weeks, it is a huge protest today because this bill has become law. it is the controversial bill

known as the foreign agents�* law, described by protesters as of the russian law. for weeks they have been coming out to protest, and here you see banks of the security forces in different stages in the last hour also, they have been trying to disperse the crowds. and now we see that this bill has become law, there is the prospect of the president overruling that but that in itself will eventually be overruled itself. let�*s bring rayhan back in, she is on the streets amongst the protesters. tremendous reporting over the last hour or so, give me a sense of the sorts of conversations you have been having, why there is so much anger where you are? we “ust soke to so much anger where you are? we “ust spoke to anotherfi so much anger where you are? we “ust

spoke to another 18-year-old �* so much anger where you are? we 'ust spoke to another 18-year-old and h so much anger where you are? we just spoke to another 18-year-old and i - spoke to another 18—year—old and i was mentioning that these protests have been driven by the georgian youth, people as young as 15, 18 and up. we were talking to 218—year—old girls, they did not want to open their masks, saying my mum will be worried, although their parents are well aware that they are here. they had just reiterated what i have been telling earlier that these people are standing here because they believe it is more than just at the law, it is notjust this controversial law, they are worried that this is a major change in georgia�*s foreign policy, that with the adoption of this law the government somehow wants to drag them back to russia, as they say, back to the ussr. that is not what the georgian people want. more than 80% of the population here see the

future of the country as part of the european union which is why they are standing here, as they say, fighting for their european future. the police here have pushed the protesters from the main area outside parliament. parliament is right next door, this 1950s building which has been housing the georgian legislator for all these years and a short while ago inside parliament after a very intense debate and verbal and physical altercations between the pro—government and opposition mps, mps from the georgian dream voted and passed in the final reading this controversial law on the transparency of foreign funding job to by protesters as the russian law. they believe that with the adoption of this law, georgia is being dragged back to russia. ——

dubbed by by protesters. they believe russia has a hand in what is at play here in georgia. we continue to watch the — at play here in georgia. we continue to watch the pictures, _ at play here in georgia. we continue to watch the pictures, as _ at play here in georgia. we continue to watch the pictures, as i _ at play here in georgia. we continue to watch the pictures, as i was - to watch the pictures, as i was saying to viewers there are so many different feeds from so many angles. it seems a really tense stand—off but there were pretty ugly clashes earlier? . �* , �* earlier? that's right. a little earlier? that's right. a little earlier the _ earlier? that's right. a little earlier the police _ earlier? that's right. a little earlier the police in - earlier? that's right. a little earlier the police in large i earlier the police in large numbers... we were coming in to do this live for the news channel and we thought we would just walk back to parliament but at the entrance to this main avenue in tbilisi there were huge numbers of riot police and they started moving in fervour to push the protesters out. it is quite a tense situation because the

protesters want to stand their ground, they want the government to hear their voices. they are saying, we are a democracy, we are the people of georgia and our will is not to have this law, our will is georgia�*s european future. what i can say, the government has been saying all along is it has nothing to do, this law has nothing to do with russia, there are many similar legislation is in the united states, in european countries and it is about transparency. they want these civil society organisations that make up the core of democracy in georgia, they want is civil society organisations, if they receive funding from abroad and most organisations of course receive funding from abroad, they receive funding from abroad, they receive funding mainly from the european

union or the united states, georgia�*s partners, georgia�*s allies. it is with the adoption of this law, these organisations will have to declare themselves as acting in the interest of a foreign power —— but with the adoption of this law. we had spoken to ngos who will be affected by this law and they say they are acting in the interests of georgia, but all this money poured into georgia over the past decades by the european union and the united states was about supporting democracy in georgia, supporting the freedom of speech, supporting many things these non—governmental organisations do. therefore they just see it... the protesters see the adoption of this law is the betrayal of the national dream, and the national dream of georgia is to

join the european union, to move away from russia as far as possible. geographically, of course, they cannot do it because russia is their northern neighbour, but russia occupies 20% of the internationally recognised georgian territory. there was a war in 2008 between russia and georgia and georgia occupies two of georgia�*s regions. what is happening now between the police that are just standing here, maybe listening in, maybe we can talk and ask them a question? can we ask you a question? can we ask you a question? no? no, i was given a very stern look. moving

back to the protesters who are here, what do you think will happen next? for now, i cannot say for sure, but i think_ for now, i cannot say for sure, but i think the — for now, i cannot say for sure, but i think the people that are here will he — i think the people that are here will be more and more for, like, tonight — will be more and more for, like, tonight i— will be more and more for, like, tonight ido— will be more and more for, like, tonight. i do not think that georgian young people will give them the possibility to make this law really— the possibility to make this law really happened. i know this has happened — really happened. i know this has happened today but we will fight to the last minute before we would finish _ the last minute before we would finish this— the last minute before we would finish this law. fire the last minute before we would finish this law.— finish this law. are you worried about... you _ finish this law. are you worried about... you know, _ finish this law. are you worried about... you know, the - finish this law. are you worried about... you know, the police| finish this law. are you worried i about... you know, the police are standing here looking angry, are you worried they might use more violence?— worried they might use more violence? ~ ~ ., , , ., violence? we know they will use more violence. violence? we know they will use more violence- in — violence? we know they will use more violence. in our— violence? we know they will use more violence. in our country _ violence? we know they will use more violence. in our country we _ violence? we know they will use more violence. in our country we have - violence. in our country we have heard _ violence. in our country we have heard many— violence. in our country we have heard many stories about the police using _ heard many stories about the police using violence but people were always — using violence but people were always standing by the truth and

this has— always standing by the truth and this has saved us for centuries. we will protect — this has saved us for centuries. we will protect our truth, no matter what _ will protect our truth, no matter what they _ will protect our truth, no matter what. they have used too many violence — what. they have used too many violence already today and we know they will— violence already today and we know they will use it tonight too. thank ou so they will use it tonight too. thank you so much- _ thank you very much, i will let you talk to more of those people, i will be back to you in a second. with me in the studio as our europe regional editor danny aeberhard. let�*s watch the pictures again, i want you to explain to the viewers what this controversial bill, now law, actually is?— controversial bill, now law, actually is? basically it forces ngos, actually is? basically it forces ngos. civil— actually is? basically it forces ngos, civil society _ actually is? basically it forces i ngos, civil society organisations and also media outlets, to declare themselves as representing the interest of a foreign power if they receive funds to the tune of 20% of

what they earn. lots of organisations will fall into that category, and as you heard from rayhan, those organisations feel they will mimic the space for freedom of expression and would argue they are serving georgia�*s interests as a democracy. they have labelled this the russian law, they see it as modelled on laws in russia that are used in a very draconian way to clamp down on dissent. that is the issue, the protests have been going on for three weeks, as you mentioned we had seen fractious scenes in the georgian parliament this morning and we have seen the start of clashes, it would not surprise me if there are further clashes today. this surprise me if there are further clashes today.— clashes today. as you had said 'usti , clashes today. as you had said justify. we _ clashes today. as you had said justify. we had _ clashes today. as you had said justify, we had seen _ clashes today. as you had said justify, we had seen weeks - clashes today. as you had said justify, we had seen weeks of| clashes today. as you had said - justify, we had seen weeks of this, really violent scenes overnight and numbers of arrests —— as you have

said, just there. none of this has stopped the bill progressing and now it has become law. in terms of those protesters it is really questionable whether any of this will have any effect at all?— effect at all? that is the real question- — effect at all? that is the real question. we _ effect at all? that is the real question. we know - effect at all? that is the real question. we know that - effect at all? that is the real. question. we know that salome zourabichvili, the georgian president, opposes the law, she will veto it, but the governing georgian dream party is insistent the law gets through and onto the statute books, so they can overwrite her veto with a simple majority and have enough votes in the chamber to do that. we also know the eu is against this law, it has warned it will hamper and damage georgia�*s european perspective. but as a reference to the fact that georgia was given candidate status at the end of last year —— that is a reference to. georgia has been battling for this

for some time so it was seen as a major step forward, europe sees this as a major step back. it is notjust the eu, the us has opposed the law very vocally, we had the assistant secretary of state jim very vocally, we had the assistant secretary of statejim 0�*brien meeting the georgian president earlier today. the us has lobbied hard against it. nothing has changed the determination of the georgian dream party to force it through. there are parliamentary elections later this year in october so there are also tensions with fat build—up as a background. 5m? are also tensions with fat build-up as a background.— as a background. stay with us. we continue to _ as a background. stay with us. we continue to watch _ as a background. stay with us. we continue to watch these _ as a background. stay with us. we continue to watch these pictures l as a background. stay with us. we i continue to watch these pictures and sent screen you are seeing some of the security forces, the riot police —— and just on screen you are seeing. they are trying to disperse some of the crowds you saw on the steps of the parliament which is why we sold those scuffles about an hour

orso we sold those scuffles about an hour or so ago, but pretty entrenched positions with no real movement in the last few minutes, certainly no more of those ugly scenes we have been witnessing but certainly those security forces absolutely ensuring that none of those protesters who have gathered got actually into the parliament building itself, as danny was saying, there were scuffles inside from members of parliament but nothing in terms of any protesters reaching the confines of that parliament building and getting into the chamber itself. we continue to watch all of these feeds coming in. as danny was saying, the tension has been rising in georgia week by week as this bill has progressed through parliament. we have seen lots of nights where there have been clashes of security forces but today that bill becoming law, the

combination of these protests. let�*s bring in the secretary general of the main opposition party and an mp, petre tsiskarishvili. what do you make of these scenes into pelissie? we are absolutely confronted with a new reality when they have already passed _ new reality when they have already passed this bill and adopted the law. passed this bill and adopted the law as — passed this bill and adopted the law. as your correspondent rightly said, _ law. as your correspondent rightly said. the _ law. as your correspondent rightly said, the president can veto the bill that— said, the president can veto the bill that they only need a simple majority— bill that they only need a simple majority to override it within the next _ majority to override it within the next couple of weeks. the turbulence on the _ next couple of weeks. the turbulence on the streets, the protests and rallies— on the streets, the protests and rallies will— on the streets, the protests and rallies will go on to the last minute _ rallies will go on to the last minute and in october we have elections — minute and in october we have elections coming up where the georgian — elections coming up where the georgian public should basically go on a referendum and make a final

decision— on a referendum and make a final decision which way we want to go, what _ decision which way we want to go, what is _ decision which way we want to go, what is the — decision which way we want to go, what is the aspiration of the georgian _ what is the aspiration of the georgian people? is it the european integration all these russian style laws and — integration all these russian style laws and this government that initiates — laws and this government that initiates and tables the legislation that copies of the russian style authoritarianism? basically there are two— authoritarianism? basically there are two major aspects to this bill they have — are two major aspects to this bill they have just passed. one is to promote — they have just passed. one is to promote and further their dictatorial aspirations and authoritarian rule that they want to impose _ authoritarian rule that they want to impose on— authoritarian rule that they want to impose on georgia, i mean the current— impose on georgia, i mean the current georgian government, and the second _ current georgian government, and the second one. _ current georgian government, and the second one, which is no less disturbing, is that they want to mark— disturbing, is that they want to mark the — disturbing, is that they want to mark the territory that putin has marked — mark the territory that putin has marked and controls as the sphere and the _ marked and controls as the sphere and the zone of its geopolitical influence. this is a major, major milestone — influence. this is a major, major milestone that they have adopted and passed _ milestone that they have adopted and passed it _ milestone that they have adopted and passed it as a law. they have an

argument — passed it as a law. they have an argument behind the closed doors and privately— argument behind the closed doors and privately the georgian government representatives, before the elections they could not back down on this— elections they could not back down on this law— elections they could not back down on this law because that would be a display— on this law because that would be a display of— on this law because that would be a display of political weakness and they would lose the elections, but by adopting and passing this bill, adamantly pushing it through, they will lose _ adamantly pushing it through, they will lose it — adamantly pushing it through, they will lose it by a landslide. this is something — will lose it by a landslide. this is something i believe in. we will lose it by a landslide. this is something i believe in.— will lose it by a landslide. this is something i believe in. we shall see when we come _ something i believe in. we shall see when we come to _ something i believe in. we shall see when we come to that _ something i believe in. we shall see when we come to that moment. - something i believe in. we shall see when we come to that moment. butj something i believe in. we shall see i when we come to that moment. but in terms of the governing georgian dream party, why do you think they have not heeded, have not listened to the protests? as we have all said, this has gone on for some while with so many people demonstrating, why has that been ignored? demonstrating, why has that been innored? ., ., ., , ., ignored? one ma'or reason is what i 'ust ignored? one ma'or reason is what i just mentioned. — ignored? one major reason is what i just mentioned, they _ ignored? one major reason is what i just mentioned, they think - ignored? one major reason is what i just mentioned, they think if - ignored? one major reason is what i just mentioned, they think if we - just mentioned, they think if we withdraw— just mentioned, they think if we withdraw it one more time, because they had _ withdraw it one more time, because they had to — withdraw it one more time, because they had to withdraw the same bill

last year— they had to withdraw the same bill last year in spring, if they do it again— last year in spring, if they do it again they— last year in spring, if they do it again they deem it as a display of political— again they deem it as a display of political weakness, jeopardising their— political weakness, jeopardising their chances of prevailing and winning — their chances of prevailing and winning the elections next fall, in october — winning the elections next fall, in october. this is one aspect and one argument _ october. this is one aspect and one argument to— october. this is one aspect and one argument to be had. the second is that when— argument to be had. the second is that when they receive instructions from putin— that when they receive instructions from putin and the kremlin it is very— from putin and the kremlin it is very seldom that they come back down. _ very seldom that they come back down, unfortunately. this is the fate of _ down, unfortunately. this is the fate of the — down, unfortunately. this is the fate of the current georgian government whereby most of the general— government whereby most of the general public is absolutely western orientated, pro—european, up to 80% of georgia _ orientated, pro—european, up to 80% of georgia by any research and poles want to— of georgia by any research and poles want tojoin— of georgia by any research and poles want tojoin the of georgia by any research and poles want to join the eu of georgia by any research and poles want tojoin the eu and even north atlantic— want tojoin the eu and even north atlantic treaty the organisation —— marked _ atlantic treaty the organisation —— marked by— atlantic treaty the organisation —— marked by any research and polls. the government is unfortunately run by a russian oligarch, bidzina ivanishvili, who was unfortunately russian — ivanishvili, who was unfortunately

russian l— ivanishvili, who was unfortunately russian. . ivanishvili, who was unfortunately russian. , , ., ~ ivanishvili, who was unfortunately russian. , , ., ,, ., ivanishvili, who was unfortunately russian. , , .,~ ., ., russian. i will 'ust break away from ou to no russian. i willjust break away from you to go back— russian. i willjust break away from you to go back to — russian. i willjust break away from you to go back to our _ russian. i willjust break away from | you to go back to our correspondent rayhan demytrie on the streets of tbilisi who has been the for the last while. i know you are running out of batteries, you have been the reporting for hours, but give me a sense in terms of where we are now. it feels like a bit of a stand—off? that�*s right. the emotions are running high right here. we are between the riot police, as you see, just police in this area, riot police in a bit further away, and the protesters. emotions are running high. some of the protesters are urging the police to move to their side and saying, look, how can you be backing the government that is trying to take us back to russia? of course, no reaction from the police.

at this very area, and i am sure just down the street where there are many more protesters gathered today, the emotions are running pretty high. people see this as a decisive moment for georgia. a decisive moment for georgia. a decisive moment for georgia. a decisive moment for this country�*s foreign policy. they believe with the adoption of this law, georgia is picketing back towards russia. —— georgia is heading back towards russia. the georgian dream party has not been communicating their position well, they had just been communicating with the interests of their founder, communicating with the interests of theirfounder, bidzina ivanishvili. their founder, bidzina ivanishvili. yesterday theirfounder, bidzina ivanishvili. yesterday the prime minister gave a

press briefing in which he talked about bidzina ivanishvili, about his grievances, about his assets that have been somehow affected and frozen in the west. that kind of reinforced the strong belief that many of the protesters have which is that the government is serving the interest of one man instead of listening to the wishes of the people, and the people standing here believe they are fighting for their country�*s future, they are standing their ground, that this struggle is more than the law that was short while ago, passed by the georgian dream mps. they believe they are standing here to ensure that georgia does not go back to russia, as they

say, because they see russia as the enemy. there was a war in 2008 and 20% of georgia�*s territory is occupied by russia. notjust that, georgians have overwhelmingly been on the side of ukraine. there are many georgian volunteers who are fighting in ukraine and when russia invaded there was a full—scale invasion of ukraine. in 2022 we were covering rallies and protests here, georgians were saying this is the war to, georgians were saying this is the warto, but georgians were saying this is the war to, but they have the same grievances as ukrainians. —— georgians were saying this is of the war too. georgians were saying this is of the wartoo. georgians georgians were saying this is of the war too. georgians know it all too well because of their own war in 2008 with russia and they fear... they absolutely are angry now and they fear the adoption of this law

might somehow mark that the country is turning its back, the government is turning its back, the government is turning its back, the government is turning its back to europe and it is turning its back to europe and it is a national dream of georgia. more than 80% of georgians see their country because my future as part of europe, right? —— see their country�*s future as part of europe. do you have anything to add? this country's future as part of europe. do you have anything to add? this is russian law. — do you have anything to add? this is russian law, russian _ do you have anything to add? this is russian law, russian government i do you have anything to add? this is. russian law, russian government and if it burns. _ russian law, russian government and if it burns, we will burn with us. thank— if it burns, we will burn with us. thank you _ if it burns, we will burn with us. thank you. are you worried about what might happen next? this thank you. are you worried about what might happen next?- thank you. are you worried about what might happen next? this is a free country _ what might happen next? this is a free country and _ what might happen next? this is a free country and we _ what might happen next? this is a free country and we will— what might happen next? this is a free country and we will fight - what might happen next? this is a free country and we will fight for. free country and we will fight for freedom — free country and we will fight for freedom. ., ~' free country and we will fight for freedom. ., ,, ., free country and we will fight for freedom. ., ~ ., , freedom. you think that with this law they are _ freedom. you think that with this law they are targeting _ freedom. you think that with this law they are targeting georgia's i law they are targeting georgia�*s democracy and freedom? yes. law they are targeting georgia's democracy and freedom? yes, they are our enemies. — democracy and freedom? yes, they are our enemies, and _ democracy and freedom? yes, they are our enemies, and we _ democracy and freedom? yes, they are our enemies, and we will _ democracy and freedom? yes, they are our enemies, and we will fight. - our enemies, and we will fight. thank— our enemies, and we will fight. thank you _ our enemies, and we will fight. thank you so much. we see these kind

of opinions repeated over and over, that people are standing here defending their democracy. georgia is in the south caucasus region, some of its neighbours, azerbaijan, it is surrounded by authoritarian countries such as russia and azerbaijan and they are worried that the adoption of this law marks a turning point. they do not want to see authoritarian rule in their country and they believe that they are standing here to defend their country�*s freedom and to defend georgia�*s european future. 0ver country�*s freedom and to defend georgia�*s european future. over the among the protesters we can see some altercations happening, but emotions are running quite high because earlier the police cleared the main area from outside parliament. what we have seen happening in the days

running to the passing of this law is a serious campaign of intimidation and threats. earlier today we interviewed a young man, an opposition politician, who showed us his wounds. he says he was shot by rubber bullets a few days ago at the protests even though the minister of the interior here denied they used rubber bullets, they used water cannon, be used tear gas. i have been covering these protests for some time and the police use their means to disperse the protesters. as they say, men, mainly, to defend their parliament building, to clear their parliament building, to clear the parliament building from the protesters. but back to the intimidation campaign, it began several days ago and a lot of people in tbilisi, opponents of this bill,

have been getting threatening calls from unknown, strange numbers calling from some countries with unknown codes. people being sworn at and warned not to go, not to attend the rallies and to stay home. this intimidation continues, and when we address the people and ask them what they make of it they say that they are united in their goal, their goal is to make sure this law does not become a law and is not stifled critical voices and does not kill georgia�*s democracy. i critical voices and does not kill georgia's democracy.- critical voices and does not kill georgia's democracy. i will give you a bit of a breather, _ georgia's democracy. i will give you a bit of a breather, thank _ georgia's democracy. i will give you a bit of a breather, thank you - georgia's democracy. i will give you a bit of a breather, thank you again | a bit of a breather, thank you again for describing everything going on around you. i will be back to you in around you. i will be back to you in a moment also.

let�*s go live to baia pataraia in tbilisi. thank you forjoining us on the programme. as we speak to you we will stay with the pictures, the riot police and the very large crowd of protesters. what have you made of this? ., ., , ., ., , ., ., , this? the law was adopted and was, of course, expected, _ this? the law was adopted and was, of course, expected, but _ this? the law was adopted and was, of course, expected, but people - this? the law was adopted and was, of course, expected, but people arej of course, expected, but people are furious. the crowds are going out and the government tries to show force, they brought 4000 policemen into the streets to counter the protesters, but i do not think they are able to actually stop the protest because we understand this is notjust protest because we understand this is not just an protest because we understand this is notjust an ordinary russian type legislation but now we are talking about train —— changing the trajectory of georgia�*s foreign policy, as already mentioned. whoever will be in government should

obey people�*s will, because our historic choice is to be democratic and a pro—european country. let historic choice is to be democratic and a pro-european country. let me 'ust cut it and a pro-european country. let me just cut it in. — and a pro-european country. let me just cut it in, for— and a pro-european country. let me just cut it in, for people _ and a pro-european country. let me just cut it in, for people watching . just cut it in, for people watching around the world, trying to make sense of this, eh few people on the street are saying this is all about georgia�*s democratic future. just explain in clear terms why people also alarmed by new law? firstly, we know after the _ also alarmed by new law? firstly, we know after the adoption _ also alarmed by new law? firstly, we know after the adoption of _ also alarmed by new law? firstly, we know after the adoption of this - also alarmed by new law? firstly, we know after the adoption of this law i know after the adoption of this law they will either reduce as foreign agents all abolish themselves, and we had coming elections in october and if none of the election monitoring organisations will be on the spot in georgia, they will force the spot in georgia, they will force the entire elections, take away the entire elections. according to this

legislation they should not be any ngo or group that will be able to defend free and fair elections for georgia by the end of october this year. we see that this russian oligarch, bidzina ivanishvili, wants to remain in power. he has been there for 12 years already and wants to remain in power by all means, including to shut down all the media who are independent and all the ngos who are independent and all the ngos who can monitor the elections. brute who can monitor the elections. we were 'ust who can monitor the elections. we were just listening to our product —— correspondence on the streets and she was reflecting towards the end of the last insert about the levels of the last insert about the levels of intimidation over the last few weeks as we have seen these demonstrations grow in size. is that something you have been aware of? i know you do a lot of work around human rights, is that something you had seen grow over the last few

days? had seen grow over the last few da s? ~ , ,., , had seen grow over the last few da s? ~ , , g had seen grow over the last few days? absolutely. my home is always vandalised, and _ days? absolutely. my home is always vandalised, and the _ days? absolutely. my home is always vandalised, and the entrance. - days? absolutely. my home is always vandalised, and the entrance. they i vandalised, and the entrance. they wrote down a threatening things —— my home door was vandalised. i have been receiving threatening phone calls which i do not answer, they have called my family members saying i should stop what i am doing, they were threatening them as well. these threats are quite massive and they also attack our homes already and they try actually to really frighten us, but of course we will not stop. in terms of what can actually be done now, what can be done given the bill is now law? we still have some time. the president will veto the law and during this period it�*s important what our international partners can do and how they can intervene. there

is a lot of talk about possible sanctions for the mps and i think bidzina ivanishvili is ready for sanctions. but i am not sure all of these mps are ready for that. but these mps are ready for that. but the only language georgian dream and bidzina ivanishvili stand is the language of force. they don�*t understand any diplomacy. it is impossible to negotiate with them. they only have to see something very real. �* . they only have to see something very real. �* , ., , . ., ., ,, real. but is it realistic to talk about sanctions _ real. but is it realistic to talk about sanctions when - real. but is it realistic to talk - about sanctions when democratically the majority have just voted for this? the ma'ority have 'ust voted for this? , ., ., , ., the ma'ority have 'ust voted for this? , ., ., ., , this? first of all, they are really corru -t this? first of all, they are really corrupt and _ this? first of all, they are really corrupt and they _ this? first of all, they are really corrupt and they have _ this? first of all, they are reallyl corrupt and they have committed quite a lot of crimes. there is a documentation for that. definitely

we believe that right