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tv   Verified Live  BBC News  May 14, 2024 3:30pm-4:01pm BST

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a lot of talk about possible is a lot of talk about possible sanctions for the mp5 and i think bidzina ivanishvili is ready for sanctions. but i am not sure all of these mps are ready for that. but these mps are ready for that. but the only language georgian dream and bidzina ivanishvili stand is the language of force. they don't understand any diplomacy. it is impossible to negotiate with them. they only have to see something very real. �* , ., , . ., ., ~ real. but is it realistic to talk about sanctions _ real. but is it realistic to talk about sanctions when - real. but is it realistic to talk - about sanctions when democratically the majority have just voted for this? the ma'ority have 'ust voted for this? , ., ., , ., the ma'ority have 'ust voted for this? , ., ., ., , this? first of all, they are really corru -t this? first of all, they are really corrunt and _ this? first of all, they are really corrupt and they _ this? first of all, they are really corrupt and they have _ this? first of all, they are reallyl corrupt and they have committed quite a lot of crimes. there is a documentation for that. definitely we believe that right now georgian
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dream is violating our constitution and it is going out of the law. whatever they are doing and how they are using force against peaceful demonstrators and everything they are doing for the last month i think they are breaking the law. [30 are doing for the last month i think they are breaking the law.- they are breaking the law. do you think it bothers _ they are breaking the law. do you think it bothers georgian - they are breaking the law. do you think it bothers georgian dream l they are breaking the law. do you | think it bothers georgian dream at all the facts that the eu and georgia wants tojoin all the facts that the eu and georgia wants to join that block have been very clear about being against this. why would they press ahead given that is jeopardising membership of the eu? fiur ahead given that is jeopardising membership of the eu? our oligarch doesnt membership of the eu? our oligarch doesn't want — membership of the eu? our oligarch doesn't want any _ membership of the eu? our oligarch doesn't want any membership - membership of the eu? our oligarch doesn't want any membership to - membership of the eu? our oligarch doesn't want any membership to the eu and georgian dream only wants to retain its powerforever eu and georgian dream only wants to retain its power forever and they are becoming extensively authoritative and they don't need the eu recommendations or regulations, it'sjust georgian
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regulations, it's just georgian people regulations, it'sjust georgian people who really want a european union. but the propaganda is so strong in this country that they are still some are making sure that some of their supporters believe they can actually deliver eu to georgia. but this is a pay will i. it's very important that all who still have some kind of hopes for georgia to realise and understand there is no way to the european union with this kind of legislation and with this kind of legislation and with this kind of legislation and with this kind of thing. we are required to reform our country, to free judiciary and have elections but this legislation definitely jeopardises everything that we have to deliver in order to be able to go further into europe and the integration process. at the propaganda is extremely strong so it's not very clear for everyone and
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that's why it is very important that our partners from the west take a serious response to this legislation.— serious response to this leaislation. ~ ., ., ., legislation. we have to leave it there but thanks _ legislation. we have to leave it there but thanks for _ legislation. we have to leave it there but thanks forjoining - legislation. we have to leave it there but thanks forjoining us| legislation. we have to leave it. there but thanks forjoining us live on bbc news. we continue to watch the pictures, there you see the large crowds that have gathered through the course of today and they grew in size as the hour approached when inside the parliament building they were voting on this bill. the majority of mps in parliament voting to make it law and since then we have seen those clashes. but in the last hour or so it has slightly settled into two very set camps with a large group of protesters but the security forces not attempting to move them any further. there was an initial attempt to push them back
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away from the parliament building but since then we have seen those ranks of riot police stay more or less in place. watching these live pictures as our europe regional editor and we were talking just thereabout the potential for eu membership and our guest saying the georgian dream party is not interested in that. but what is the justification for bringing in this new law? , ., ., ., ., , new law? they argue on two fronts mainl . new law? they argue on two fronts mainly- one _ new law? they argue on two fronts mainly- one is— new law? they argue on two fronts mainly. one is they _ new law? they argue on two fronts mainly. one is they say _ new law? they argue on two fronts mainly. one is they say it's - new law? they argue on two fronts mainly. one is they say it's about | mainly. one is they say it's about transparency and they say other countries it's notjust russia that have similar laws. they point towards the us for example. they also say about georgian sovereignty, so the idea that if organisations and ngos are getting foreign funding
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that that somehow compromises georgian sovereignty. they say they want for georgia to join the european union. that is their official position. but there are strong links with bidzina ivanishvili the billionaire who is the power behind georgian dream. he is not the prime minister but he's behind—the—scenes. the kremlin interestingly says or accuses the eu and the west and the us of meddling in domestic politics. for many georgians they listen to that with extreme irony given the fact that russia invaded georgia in 2008 and controls to georgian provinces. that is part of the reason why protesters are so agitated about this law. you heard one of your guests talking about why not offer it up to a
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referendum because the georgian dream party says the majority of children support this law. i guess from the protesters point of view, if you are so confident about that offer it up for a referendum and we will save chosen people really supported. i will save chosen people really summed-— will save chosen people really supported. will save chosen people really su--orted. ~ ., h ' . ., supported. i know it's difficult to see and in _ supported. i know it's difficult to see and in the _ supported. i know it's difficult to see and in the immediate - supported. i know it's difficult to . see and in the immediate aftermath of the vote, but it's difficult to see where this goes to next. there is the chance of the president vetoing it but then it goes back to parliament at the numbers are there to push it through. where did these protests go?— protests go? that's the difficult issue. protests go? that's the difficult issue- it's _ protests go? that's the difficult issue- it's a _ protests go? that's the difficult issue. it's a really _ protests go? that's the difficult issue. it's a really critical - issue. it's a really critical juncture. does it turn to violence, do we see more violent protests, do we see that? but it seems to be a real drawing of the lines of this stage. we will for sure see protests from the eu, we will see official protests from the us. they have
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already made their position is very clear on this front, they oppose the law and think it's the wrong step for georgia. especially when it has aspirations tojoin the for georgia. especially when it has aspirations to join the european union. aspirations to 'oin the european union. , ., , . ., union. other guest was reflecting on her wish that — union. other guest was reflecting on her wish that the _ union. other guest was reflecting on her wish that the international - her wish that the international community bringing sanctions. just remind viewers what the international community and what the eu and the americans have said and what else potentially they could do. the european union says it will damage the georgian european perspective. damage the georgian european pempeetive-_ damage the georgian european --ersective. ., ., , damage the georgian european --ersective. ., ., perspective. european diplomats and us diplomats — perspective. european diplomats and us diplomats have _ perspective. european diplomats and us diplomats have made _ perspective. european diplomats and us diplomats have made it _ perspective. european diplomats and | us diplomats have made it absolutely crystal clear they are against this and opposed this move. the assistant secretary of state for the us jim secretary of state for the usjim o'neill secretary of state for the us jim o'neill actually met the secretary of state for the usjim o'neill actually met the georgian prime minister again today to try to
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underline this was in the us through a bad step. we may well see sanctions. the 84 georgian mps who voted for this third reading of the bill may be sanctioned. we willjust have to wait and see. bill may be sanctioned. we will 'ust have to wait and semi have to wait and see. thank you for that analysis _ have to wait and see. thank you for that analysis and _ have to wait and see. thank you for that analysis and for _ have to wait and see. thank you for that analysis and for being - have to wait and see. thank you for that analysis and for being here - have to wait and see. thank you for that analysis and for being here as| that analysis and for being here as we continue to watch the scenes. if you are justjoining we continue to watch the scenes. if you arejustjoining us on bbc news, we are staying with these pictures and live scenes from the capital of georgia with so many people on the streets because parliament has pushed through this very controversial bill that has become law and we've seen clashes over the last while. but no sign at all that the government has been listening or plans to have any sort of compromise. that bill has become law in georgia with the prospect
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potentially of the present intervening, but certainly the numbers, they have those in parliament, and that is why all of those people are on the streets. let's speak to one of them who was the daughter of the former georgian prime minister. welcome to the programme. you have been among the crowds. give me a sense of what it has been like over the last few hours. ., , ., ., ,, , ., has been like over the last few hours. ., ,, ., ,, i. ., hours. hello everyone, thank you for havin: hours. hello everyone, thank you for having me- — hours. hello everyone, thank you for having me. thank— hours. hello everyone, thank you for having me. thank you _ hours. hello everyone, thank you for having me. thank you for _ hours. hello everyone, thank you for having me. thank you for showing i having me. thank you for showing this process. the line between the police _ this process. the line between the police and — this process. the line between the police and special forces and the protesters is contained by the media representatives and cameras and by transparency of the process to the rest of— transparency of the process to the rest of the — transparency of the process to the rest of the world and people living in georgia — rest of the world and people living in georgia and it's a very important mechanism — in georgia and it's a very important mechanism of keeping this piece in
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this moment. today the law was finally— this moment. today the law was finally voted as you well know and protesters — finally voted as you well know and protesters gathered around the parliament and faced an unprecedented amount of police. it looked _ unprecedented amount of police. it looked quite inadequate for the amount— looked quite inadequate for the amount of people that was there. the space _ amount of people that was there. the space right _ amount of people that was there. the space right in front of the parliament has been used for protests— parliament has been used for protests for years and years since the 1990s — protests for years and years since the 1990s and since georgian independence. georgian people are very outspoken because the system oppresses _ very outspoken because the system oppresses the civil dignity. this is a point _ oppresses the civil dignity. this is a point at — oppresses the civil dignity. this is a point at which since 2003 the scale _ a point at which since 2003 the scale of— a point at which since 2003 the scale of the protests and the publicity in terms of involving different _ publicity in terms of involving different generations and different social—
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different generations and different social classes and different pools and tbilisi as well as in regions in the western part of georgia and eastern — the western part of georgia and eastern and central cities and i believe — eastern and central cities and i believe this public force which has been _ believe this public force which has been able — believe this public force which has been able to somehow resist systems that have _ been able to somehow resist systems that have been in place for years and yearsm _ that have been in place for years and years... let that have been in place for years and years - -_ and years... let me ask you a question _ and years... let me ask you a question about _ and years... let me ask you a question about why _ and years... let me ask you a question about why you - and years... let me ask you a question about why you have | and years... let me ask you a| question about why you have a because we've heard from a number of protesters, they believe georgia is now at a crossroads, their democracy is at stake. is that how you see it? the way i see it is that georgia, which _ the way i see it is that georgia, which has — the way i see it is that georgia, which has formed its geopolitical vision _ which has formed its geopolitical vision within the western
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geopolitical line, where we have opened — geopolitical line, where we have opened ourselves since the fall of the soviet— opened ourselves since the fall of the soviet union as a passive through— the soviet union as a passive through the east and the west and which _ through the east and the west and which has — through the east and the west and which has been engraved in generations and civil conscious, that knowledge and understanding of our role _ that knowledge and understanding of our role and our identity has georgians within the world has been compromised by the introduction of the law— compromised by the introduction of the law and more so by the speech of bidzina _ the law and more so by the speech of bidzina ivanishvili who addressed the public and openly stated a change — the public and openly stated a change of the geopolitical direction according _ change of the geopolitical direction according to which this country has been _ according to which this country has been going — according to which this country has been going for decades. that is with the reason _ been going for decades. that is with the reason why it has resulted in these _ the reason why it has resulted in these protests and the second powerful reason i came out is because — powerful reason i came out is because my friends about. i have over— because my friends about. i have over ten— because my friends about. i have over ten friends and close allies who have — over ten friends and close allies who have been beaten up severely and
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who have been beaten up severely and who have _ who have been beaten up severely and who have been beaten up severely and who have been taken to prison and it is important — who have been taken to prison and it is important to know they were not beaten _ is important to know they were not beaten up — is important to know they were not beaten up for violence, they were trying _ beaten up for violence, they were trying to — beaten up for violence, they were trying to stand in between police and people being violated by police. i want _ and people being violated by police. i want to— and people being violated by police. i want to underline the forms of the protests— i want to underline the forms of the protests have been peaceful. we have been watching — protests have been peaceful. we have been watching the _ protests have been peaceful. we have been watching the scenes _ protests have been peaceful. we have been watching the scenes over- protests have been peaceful. we have been watching the scenes over the - been watching the scenes over the last few hours and we saw some of that violence around the parliament steps. i introduced you and said you are the daughter of the georgian pro minister between 2004 and 2005. he conjures the phrase i am georgian and therefore i am european. do you think that is at stake here? is that why all of the people on the streets are trying to ensure that continues in the future? his are trying to ensure that continues in the future?— are trying to ensure that continues in the future? his words are part of the history — in the future? his words are part of the history and _ in the future? his words are part of the history and part _ in the future? his words are part of the history and part of _ in the future? his words are part of the history and part of the -
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in the future? his words are part of i the history and part of the communal effort _ the history and part of the communal effort by— the history and part of the communal effort by georgians since the early 90s for— effort by georgians since the early 90s for the newly born country from the soviet _ 90s for the newly born country from the soviet union. with a very particular— the soviet union. with a very particular identity and rich culture _ particular identity and rich culture. to create a vision and infrastructure and diplomatic lines with europe and the us. he stated this when— with europe and the us. he stated this when georgia became part of the eu commission in 1999. so that direction — eu commission in 1999. so that direction of geopolitical vision and the prospect of the development of the prospect of the development of the country has been established since _ the country has been established since the — the country has been established since the 90s. 25 years ago. and people _ since the 90s. 25 years ago. and people have been standing on this ground _ people have been standing on this ground and the way we envision ourselves— ground and the way we envision ourselves being realised and our lives _ ourselves being realised and our lives in — ourselves being realised and our lives in this country is within the openness — lives in this country is within the openness and never in an isolated
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sense _ openness and never in an isolated sense so — openness and never in an isolated sense. soto openness and never in an isolated sense. so tojeopardise this in any way is _ sense. so tojeopardise this in any way is an— sense. so tojeopardise this in any way is an attack on civil dignity of children— way is an attack on civil dignity of children people. is way is an attack on civil dignity of children people.— way is an attack on civil dignity of children people. is there anything ou can children people. is there anything you can do _ children people. is there anything you can do about _ children people. is there anything you can do about it _ children people. is there anything you can do about it now? - children people. is there anything you can do about it now? we - children people. is there anything| you can do about it now? we have seen these protests go on for so many days and weeks and it hasn't stopped the passage of this bill so what more can you do?— what more can you do? there is a date set for _ what more can you do? there is a date set for elections _ what more can you do? there is a date set for elections in _ what more can you do? there is a date set for elections in october i date set for elections in october and that— date set for elections in october and that is— date set for elections in october and that is going to be the main democratic mechanism for changing things _ democratic mechanism for changing things the — democratic mechanism for changing things. the president has announced she will_ things. the president has announced she will veto the law and it will take _ she will veto the law and it will take a — she will veto the law and it will take a month for the ruling party to undo _ take a month for the ruling party to undo the _ take a month for the ruling party to undo the veto and they will most probably— undo the veto and they will most probably start repressing different civil organisations that are connected to the west and not only people _ connected to the west and not only people who have been outspoken and
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people _ people who have been outspoken and people who have been outspoken and people who have been independent citizens _ people who have been independent citizens committed to their lives in this country. i believe especially in the _ this country. i believe especially in the situation where the government has got out of its way in terms _ government has got out of its way in terms of— government has got out of its way in terms of the scale of police violence _ terms of the scale of police violence and the kind of police violence — violence and the kind of police violence they have been using, former— violence they have been using, former -- _ violence they have been using, former —— for me it's quite scary to understand — former —— for me it's quite scary to understand there is not much structure _ understand there is not much structure that will guarantee the stability— structure that will guarantee the stability of the situation. and together with georgia being between georgia _ together with georgia being between georgia and western dichotomy is also within the region itself and we are surrounded by azerbaijan, armenia, _ are surrounded by azerbaijan, armenia, turkey and russia and the
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black— armenia, turkey and russia and the black sea _ armenia, turkey and russia and the black sea on the other side. sol think— black sea on the other side. sol think it's — black sea on the other side. sol think it's also important to understand the regional dynamics and the threats— understand the regional dynamics and the threats that are being posed to the threats that are being posed to the sovereignty by escalating processes where they might get out of hand _ processes where they might get out of hand. , ., ., ., , ., of hand. yes, that real worry that surrounded _ of hand. yes, that real worry that surrounded by — of hand. yes, that real worry that surrounded by all _ of hand. yes, that real worry that surrounded by all those _ surrounded by all those authoritarian regimes that all of those people in tbilisi on the streets are desperate for that not to be part of their future story. we have to leave it there but thank you so much. just a bit of movement on the streets as the cameras pan around. i don't know whether it's another effort by the security forces to move those protesters. the other camera angle shows you just the banks and banks of security personnel and security forces that have been around the parliament building and have made efforts to
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move those crowds. it is certainly very noisy but relatively calm given some of the scenes we have seen. that is the situation with the live pictures in tbilisi. i am going to point you to a lot of background that's available on the bbc website and you can also listen to a podcast which looks closely at the mass protest as well has the controversial law which sparked them. we will return very shortly to georgia and tbilisi to up you on the situation. that is the very latest from georgia. we will return to that story and it is a very big story and it's very fluid so we will return. let's round up a couple of important stories in the meantime that have been developing. two french prison
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officers have been killed and three others wounded when gunmen ambushed the van in which they were transporting a convicted felon in a motorway toll station. it happened when two vehicles were used to ram the prison vehicle that is not known how many attackers were actually involved. president macron has said everything was done to find of those involved with hundreds of police officers now deployed in the hunt. the escaped prisoner was being returned to jail after a court hearing in a nearby city. let's get the very latest. a very serious incident, just bring me a little more detail. what else do you know? we know this happened shortly after iiam we know this happened shortly after ”am this morning paris time which means ioam british time. it was obviously organised. the van which
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was armoured and guards inside was ferrying this business who had just been for a judicial hearing and it was attacked at the toll booth because that is where everything slows down. it was filmed by people in a bus that was on a different day who found themselves outside their windows with the scene of a war. the criminal is aged 30, he —— his nickname is the fly. very obviously this was organised. he had tried to escape two days ago and had been caught. somebody had given him something to saw off the bar on his window. obviously the whole thing was probably to try and stop the
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current proceedings because the hearing he was going to have to do with burglaries but he's also suspected heavily of being a narcotics boss. you have now got 200 police officers in pursuit. the gendarme and other police for the and they are military. there was a plan called the sparrowhawk plan which had been deployed. we've had promises from various ministers they would be caught shortly. it is really something the french are shocked by because the fact they killed two people and could have killed two people and could have killed three more and it was done with great efficiency. the minister
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forjustice said no justice would be donein forjustice said no justice would be done in president macron waded in and said we will be unbreakable. there are a of objectives and we do know that there is a dragnet over that region of the country.- that region of the country. thank ou ve that region of the country. thank you very much — that region of the country. thank you very much for _ that region of the country. thank you very much for updating - that region of the country. thank you very much for updating us i that region of the country. thank| you very much for updating us on that very serious story and if there is more we will return to paris and get the latest. let's squeeze in one more story. the former lawyer of donald trump is back on the stand in the former president's cash money trial and on day one of his testimony mr cohen who once claimed he would take a bullet for his boss told jurors that donald trump personally authorised him to make a payment to a pawn starjust personally authorised him to make a payment to a pawn star just weeks before the 2016 election. the former president is accused of falsifying business records to hide the payments to the adult film star stormy daniels. donald trump denies the claims. let's head to new york.
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what has been happening on the witness stand?— witness stand? michael cohen's secondary understand _ witness stand? michael cohen's secondary understand and - witness stand? michael cohen's secondary understand and for. witness stand? michael cohen's i secondary understand and for the prosecution he is the only witness that directly ties donald trump to the alleged falsification of business records scheme. so understand today he has been outlining how when he met donald trump at the white house in 2017 after donald trump became president there in the oval office donald trump expressed knowledge of the reimbursement plan, even asking him to need any more money? and thejury was shown a picture of donald trump and michael cohen in the white house. michael cohen then was asked about some of the issues around his credibility, the fact he has often lied for donald trump. to congress,
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to federal election commission investigators when michael cohen was ultimately pleaded guilty in 2018 to federal campaign finance violations. and lying to the media when michael cohen was asked about the stormy daniels payment. michael cohen said he did it all to protect donald trump and that he barely did anything legal for trump and that he barely did anything legalfor him in 2017. the records classified as legal retainers he said simply didn't exist. michael cohen understand again giving evidence that is helping the prosecution's a share. we have to leave it there but he will continue to monitor what's happening inside the courtroom and we will return to you later. you can follow all of the latest and michael cohen's testimony on the website where you can read and watch developments as they happen live
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with reporting from inside the courtroom from our correspondence in new york. let's go back to tbilisi in georgia with the scenes on the streets because huge crowds turning out as that bill was passed into law and you can see the security forces and you can see the security forces and riot police again trying to move more of those crowds. we have seen some ugly clashes but it is calming down in the last little while. so many people out on the streets to defy the government and reject this controversial bill that has become law and we will get the very latest from our correspondence on the ground amongst those protesters here on our programme. don't go away.
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hello, good afternoon. it was a mild start to this morning, but it was also a rather wet one too, particularly for parts of the midlands, into yorkshire, southeast england as well, with a weather front gradually pushing more rain northwards and eastwards and then largely stalling. but some of the best sunshine today will be across northern scotland. this is where we could also see the day's highest temperatures. low pressure very much dominating notjust today but as we head through much of the rest of the week as well, just pushing this weather front slowly northwards and eastwards. but the rain is starting to weaken on this. always a lot of cloud, particularly for these north sea facing coasts where it is quite cool. there will be sunny spells emerging further west but also the chance of a few showers for wales, northern ireland and down towards the south—west of england. quite windy here for a time but the best of the sunshine for parts of caithness and sutherland here. across the moray firth we could see 21 or 22 celsius perhaps. overnight tonight, ourfront is practically stationary. the rain is gradually dying away but there could be a second pulse just pushing into southeast england and east anglia up through the midlands in time for tomorrow morning. out towards the west there will be some clear spells.
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watch out for mist and fog perhaps developing early on. but it is a mild start to the day. temperatures in double figures across the board. then into tomorrow, for most of us it is looking a bit drier than today but still some outbreaks of rain still for these north sea facing coasts. here again it is cool and breezy. but some sunshine across much of scotland, sunny spells for northern ireland, always the chance of a few showers here and out towards the west as well. there will be some brighter spells here and there. top temperatures again for caithness and sutherland, 23 or even 24 celsius. on thursday there will still be some showers around and some of these showers could be heavy and thundery in nature. but again there will be some brightness and spells of sunshine to the north and also towards the south as well. temperatures once more slightly above the seasonal average for the vast majority. another mild night to follow as well. the low pressure will gradually pull away to the near continent as we head through friday and into the weekend.
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still some showers in the south but a ridge of high pressure will start to influence our weather further north, so here it should be largely dry and it will feel pleasantly warm in the sunshine.
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live from london, this is bbc news. a tense stand off in tblisi —
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hundreds of protesters clash with security forces as georgia votes through a divisive law that critics say pushes the country closer to russia. these are the live pictures from tbilisi as police confront hundreds of protesters outside the parliament. i'm rayhan demytrie life in tbilisi, where dramatic scenes have been unfolding between the protesters, who want a european future for their country. our other main headlines... intense battles around kharkiv as ukraine struggles to hold back a major russian incursion near its second biggest city. but the us secretary of state says more military aid is on its way during a surprise visit to ukraine. and donald trump's criminal hush money trial resumes with trump's lawyer michael cohen testifying for a second day.

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