on the first full day of campaigning, we are following leaders around the country and with rishi sunak as he tries to hit the ground running. leader of the snp says leader of the snp sastuly the 4th can be independence day for scotland if his makes gains. and one other headline this hour, this is the scene live at the post office it inquiry, former boss paula vennells is appearing for a second day. welcome to downing street. a much quieter downing street than 24 a much quieter downing street than 2a hours ago, because party leaders have hit the campaign trail with six weeks to go until the general election.

the prime minister, rishi sunak, said only the conservatives offer security and economic stability, while the labour leader, sir keir starmer, promised an end to what he called 14 years of decline and chaos under the tories. nigel farage said he won't be standing for reform uk but will campaign for them. let's get more from our political correspondent damian grammaticas. enter the man who has staked everything on this gamble, calling an election now. quite a few of his mps are not convinced by the timing, and he has a huge poll deficit to overcome. i want to build a britain, a country where you all can have confidence, restored confidence and pride in our communities, in our society and our nation. earlier he had an admission — he'd promised deportation flights to rwanda. now he says they will happen if he is elected. we have already started detaining people, we have hired the escorts, we have an airfield on standby and we have booked the flights. all of that work is already ongoing and the choice

of this election is clear, because if i'm reelected as prime minister on the 5th ofjuly, these flights will go. the labour leader was 200 miles to the south, in kent. keeping with tradition, he stopped for the first baby of his campaign. less traditional — this location to launch, far from usual labour heartlands. so this election is about a choice — two different countries, two different futures. decline and chaos continuing under the tories, or rebuilding our country under labour. for the next few weeks, sir keir starmer will be pressed for more detail about that change and the plan he has already outlined. we will make the economy stable, how we will ensure we bring down the waiting times with 40,000 appointments every week, extra appointments under a labour government. how we will have the border security command take control of our borders, which have been lost under this government. how we set up gb energy

so we'll have prices down for good. richard tice, leader of reform uk, launched without his party's best—known member, nigel farage, reform's honorary president. he has chosen not to enter the fray, saying he wants to help in the us election this autumn and here where he can. i am absolutely delighted, during this election campaign, that my good friend nigel farage will be helping out significantly in campaigning to drive home the message of reform uk and how we can save britain. also hoping to siphon votes away from the conservatives are the liberal democrats. they launched yesterday. today, their deputy leader said they are concentrating their efforts on several dozen target seats. i think we all know the country is absolutely crying out for change. we all know that, we feel it in our bones. but there are places around the country, around 80 seats, where it is the liberal democrats

who can deliver that change, where liberal democrats are the key challengers to the conservatives, and it is in those areas we are really going after conservative mps because we are best placed to beat them in this general election. when he announced this election, rishi sunak might have been hoping to catch other parties on the back foot, like the snp, whose new leader was installed just this month. our manifesto is well advanced, we are hitting the road today to start the election campaign, so we are ready to go and i will be out and about around the country and i intend to take my message to every part of the country. i am the first minister of all of scotland, and i intend to be present in every part of scotland. in westminster, mps were scrambling to see what of all the legislation in progress could be rushed through. rishi sunak�*s own signature measure to ban smoking looks likely to be ditched. it was meant to be part of his legacy. damian grammaticas,

bbc news, westminster. let's go live to another of our westminster studios, we can talk to liberal democrat mp alistair carmichael, thank you so much for being on the programme, what is your central pitch to voters? figs being on the programme, what is your central pitch to voters?— central pitch to voters? as you heard from _ central pitch to voters? as you heard from our— central pitch to voters? as you heard from our assistant - central pitch to voters? as you i heard from our assistant leader, this is an agenda for change, and liberal democrats across the country, but especially in those seats where we are strongest, can be the vehicle for the change. so we have a government at the moment that frankly, two years ago, crashed the economy, and now they're wanting to take credit for repairing some of the damage, but everybody knows that at the end of the day, they are paying more mortgage, more in taxes for the mistakes that the conservatives have made. they have to be accountable for that. the liberal democrat are people who throughout this time have always been at the forefront of saying that we will get people the need —— the

help they need to get by. we we will get people the need -- the help they need to get by.— help they need to get by. we will come back _ help they need to get by. we will come back to _ help they need to get by. we will come back to those _ help they need to get by. we will come back to those issues - help they need to get by. we will come back to those issues in - help they need to get by. we will come back to those issues in a i come back to those issues in a moment or two, but you leader previously said she wanted to be leader, is there realism this time around? ., , leader, is there realism this time around? . , ., ., ., around? certainly, what we hear from the -a around? certainly, what we hear from the party this— around? certainly, what we hear from the party this time — around? certainly, what we hear from the party this time is _ around? certainly, what we hear from the party this time is something - the party this time is something thatis the party this time is something that is grounded in the experience that is grounded in the experience that we are hearing talking to people on their doorsteps. you are right, we didn't have a great election result last time, but we have taken time to reflect on that, we have listened to people, we have had literally millions of doorstep conversations this year already, and we have got activists around the country knocking on doors talking to people in their communities. so, yes, if it is realism, then it is realism driven by liberal democrats listening to people in their communities and then acting on it. i kind of think that is how politics really ought to work.— kind of think that is how politics really ought to work. honesty in olitics is really ought to work. honesty in politics is really _ really ought to work. honesty in politics is really critical, - really ought to work. honesty in politics is really critical, we - really ought to work. honesty in politics is really critical, we all. politics is really critical, we all know that. now, you are not going to form the next government, so what is

the best case scenario for your party? the best case scenario for your .a ? ., , ., the best case scenario for your party? for the liberal democrats, there are real— party? for the liberal democrats, there are real opportunities - party? for the liberal democrats, there are real opportunities for i party? for the liberal democrats, there are real opportunities for us to make significant gains here, and for, you know, every vote cast for the liberal democrats goes towards seeing more liberal democrat mps are elected, and that we can then deliver on the change that you need particularly in public services. so getting our nhs back working, getting our nhs back working, getting the economy going again, and making sure that there is going to be care for people of any age when they need it was not because, you know, it is getting the basics right, getting police back onto our streets, getting community support officers out there in a visible way, making sure that when people are the victims of crime, they can have confidence that the police will come under that something will happen about it. the reality for too many people at the moment is that the basics of public services like that are broken and just do not work for them. are broken and 'ust do not work for them. �* ., ., ., ., , them. and would that mean taxes

auoin u- them. and would that mean taxes going up under— them. and would that mean taxes going up under the _ them. and would that mean taxes going up under the liberal- going up under the liberal democrats?— going up under the liberal democrats? ~ �* ., ., , going up under the liberal democrats? �* ., ., , ., democrats? we've said already that we, like democrats? we've said already that we. like other— democrats? we've said already that we, like other parties _ democrats? we've said already that we, like other parties in _ democrats? we've said already that we, like other parties in this - we, like other parties in this election, we will have to wait and see what the books are like when we get in there, but people can look at the liberal democrats in government last time, and last time it was the liberal democrat influence that saw the threshold at which people would start to pay tax rise from £6,000 to over £10,000. that was putting money back into the pockets of hard—working people right across the country, and some of the poorest people in our community, so whatever the situation that presents itself, these are the governing principles by which liberal democrats will... sure, but you must have an idea, i know, but you must have some idea, i know, but you must have some idea, i know that this election, called yesterday, was somewhat of a surprise in westminster, but you've had plenty of time to get your ducks in a row. you must know if the position would basically be that the liberal democrats would say, to get all of these things done in public

services, we may need to put taxes up. services, we may need to put taxes u n . ., ., services, we may need to put taxes u n i ., ., services, we may need to put taxes u -. ., ., ., ., services, we may need to put taxes up. no, no, we are not saying that at the moment, _ up. no, no, we are not saying that at the moment, and _ up. no, no, we are not saying that at the moment, and i— up. no, no, we are not saying that at the moment, and i don't - up. no, no, we are not saying that at the moment, and i don't think l at the moment, and i don't think that any party is going to say that. we are still some weeks away from launching the detail of our manifesto, but what i can tell you is that our manifesto, like every other manifesto that i have ever contested an election on, i have now stood at every election since 2001, will come with prices attached. so when liberal democrats say they are going to do something, people will know that it is something for which there will be money available, because as you say, that is something that is very important in keeping trust in politics. what keeping trust in politics. what defines you? _ keeping trust in politics. what defines you? what _ keeping trust in politics. what defines you? what makes - keeping trust in politics. what defines you? what makes you different to the labour opposition? well, we do have a lot of areas on which we agree with the labour party, but you know, when it comes to things like the delivery of services, the labour party will always say that is something that is done very tightly controlled, from the centre, whereas liberal

democrats want to empower communities, and we understand that different communities want different things and that, you know, they should be allowed to have a much deeper say in their public services, whether it is health, education, policing or any other public service, is going to be delivered. the other big difference, i think, is that in labour, there is always a very wide streak of authoritarianism, you have heard it already from keir starmer, talking about bringing back tony blair's botched idea of identity cards, with a big data base of how people use them, and that is something for which liberal democrats will never give any support in parliament. can ou cive a give any support in parliament. can you give a guarantee, as we are talking now to voters, that you want to take part in a coalition if it came to that, after we get the results? everyone remember is what happens with david cameron. weill. happens with david cameron. well, look, the question _ happens with david cameron. well,

look, the question of— happens with david cameron. -ii look, the question of whether there is a coalition or not is something thatis is a coalition or not is something that is down to the voters, and if that... ., , ., , ., ., that... no, it is not, it is down to ou. that... no, it is not, it is down to you. no. — that... no, it is not, it is down to yom no. no. _ that... no, it is not, it is down to yom no. no. no. _ that... no, it is not, it is down to you. no, no, no, the _ that... no, it is not, it is down to you. no, no, no, the voters- that... no, it is not, it is down to i you. no, no, no, the voters decide how many mps, it is for parties like yourselves to decide whether you go into coalition. i am saying to you at the start of the campaign, do you rule out any sort of potential for coalition or not? i rule out any sort of potential for coalition or not?— coalition or not? i think it is hiuhl , coalition or not? i think it is highly. highly _ coalition or not? i think it is highly, highly unlikely - coalition or not? i think it is highly, highly unlikely that l coalition or not? i think it is i highly, highly unlikely that we coalition or not? i think it is - highly, highly unlikely that we will be in that position, and we would want a very high price if we were to go into coalition. but we are telling people at the moment what liberal democrats want to deliver in government and in parliament, and thatis government and in parliament, and that is what we are asking them to vote for. and i do hope, if it comes to the time, you will put that question notjust to liberal democrats but also to labour and conservative and any other party politicians that come on, because you know, it is not solely down to one party, whether there is ever going to be a future in a coalition

or in some other sort of confidence and supply agreement.— or in some other sort of confidence and supply agreement. sure, you are absolutely right... _ and supply agreement. sure, you are absolutely right... we _ and supply agreement. sure, you are absolutely right... we will _ and supply agreement. sure, you are absolutely right... we will always - absolutely right... we will always do what is necessary _ absolutely right... we will always do what is necessary in _ absolutely right... we will always do what is necessary in the - absolutely right... we will always j do what is necessary in the public interest if that is what the voters tell us to do. interest if that is what the voters tell us to tie-— tell us to do. you are absolutely riaht, tell us to do. you are absolutely right. many _ tell us to do. you are absolutely right. many of— tell us to do. you are absolutely right, many of these _ tell us to do. you are absolutely right, many of these questions i tell us to do. you are absolutely i right, many of these questions can be put to all of the parties, and i have been doing that, and i want to come back in a moment to ask you a question i have asked other parties, about the conduct of the election in this campaign. before we move away from talk of coalitions, i heard what you say, are you then saying you are not ruling out a potentially a coalition with even this conservative government or a labour government? which is it? we conservative government or a labour government? which is it?— government? which is it? we have said already _ government? which is it? we have said already that _ government? which is it? we have said already that liberal— government? which is it? we have. said already that liberal democrats, at this change election, are a means of removing the conservatives from government, and we cannot possibly be clearer than that. it then is up

to the voters... 50 be clearer than that. it then is up to the voters. . ._ to the voters... so under no circumstances _ to the voters... so under no circumstances a _ to the voters... so under no circumstances a coalition . to the voters... so under no i circumstances a coalition with to the voters... so under no - circumstances a coalition with the tories? i circumstances a coalition with the tories? ., �* ~ ., circumstances a coalition with the tories? ~ ., ., . circumstances a coalition with the tories? ., �* ~ ., ., . ., tories? i don't know how much more clearl i tories? i don't know how much more clearly i can — tories? i don't know how much more clearly i can say _ tories? i don't know how much more clearly i can say this _ tories? i don't know how much more clearly i can say this for _ tories? i don't know how much more clearly i can say this for you. - tories? i don't know how much more clearly i can say this for you. a - clearly i can say this for you. a vote for the liberal democrats as a vote for the liberal democrats as a vote to remove the conservatives from government. what happens then is up to the voters and, you know, we are at the start of a six—week campaign, that is where the debate has got to centre. but, really, it is notjust talking about power deals after the election — what really matters to the people that we talk to out on the doorsteps, daily, is the quality of care that they can get for their family is the quality of care that they can get for theirfamily in is the quality of care that they can get for their family in the nhs, is the quality of care that they can get for theirfamily in the nhs, the quality of education they can get, the fact that for so many people in so many of our communities, they don't feel safe to go out on the streets, they feel that if their car is broken into or their house is broken into, then it is not worth phoning the police any more, because no—one will come and nothing will happen. i think that is where the debate has got centre, and honestly

it is fascinating forjournalists and politicians too about how the arithmetic might stack up, but people want to know your views and what you would do on these issues. sure, i get that, but in the end, it translates in terms of what parties due to the sort of government that all those voters are actually hoping for comejuly the all those voters are actually hoping for come july the 4th. all those voters are actually hoping for comejuly the 4th. a final question, then, that i have asked labour only a moment ago. in terms of the conduct of the election, how much do you worry about how personal it gets? what do you hope to see over the next six weeks? and what do you fear? i over the next six weeks? and what do ou fear? ., ., , ., ., you fear? i would hope that we have a --roer, you fear? i would hope that we have a preper. major— you fear? i would hope that we have a proper, major debate _ you fear? i would hope that we have a proper, major debate among - you fear? i would hope that we have a proper, major debate among the l a proper, major debate among the parties centred around the issues. of parties centred around the issues. of course, personalities can sometimes come into play, of course they are sometimes relevant, especially in the sort of increasingly presidential style of campaigning that we have. but honestly, what the people that i

talk to want to hear politicians discusses where they see the future for public services. they are not stupid, they know that money is still tight, they know that we have an enormous job to do to reconstruct the economy after covid and the energy spikes, the price spikes that came following putin's war in russia. you know, they know also that the conservatives did enormous damage with liz truss and kwasi kwarteng's quite catastrophic mini budget. they want to hear what plans we have with the resources that we have got. you know, i have seen this tightening of tension over the years, and in the time that i've beenin years, and in the time that i've been in politics, i've seen two of my former colleagues actually killed for doing theirjob, and i've seen another one seriously injured, and honestly, that really is not the way

we want to do politics in this country. we want to do politics in this count . ~ . ., , country. well, a really sober thou~ht country. well, a really sober thought to — country. well, a really sober thought to end _ country. well, a really sober thought to end with, - country. well, a really sober thought to end with, alistairj thought to end with, alistair carmichael, thanks forjoining us live on our programme. nice for your time. . ., live on our programme. nice for your time. . ~' ,. live on our programme. nice for your time-_ that _ live on our programme. nice for your time-_ that was _ live on our programme. nice for your time._ that was the - time. thank you. that was the liberal democrat _ time. thank you. that was the liberal democrat position. - time. thank you. that was the liberal democrat position. a l time. thank you. that was the - liberal democrat position. a short time ago i spoke to shadow home secretary yvette cooper, she gave me his thoughts at the start of this election campaign. we need to put an end to the chaos, 14 we need to put an end to the chaos, 1a years of conservative government has become more and more chaotic, our public services feel broken, our economy really struggling, and that is why we are so keen to turn the page, to change the country needs, so yes, we are really ready to go. change is a really powerful message, but do you accept it is going to be, if you win, moderates change? weill. if you win, moderates change? well, there are areas _ if you win, moderates change? well, there are areas that _ if you win, moderates change? well, there are areas that we _ if you win, moderates change? well, there are areas that we have - if you win, moderates change? -ii there are areas that we have already set out plans, the six first steps that keir starmer has identified are

areas that actually, for people, would make a huge difference to their lives, for example if you are a patient and you have been waiting may be years, notjust months in pain waiting for your treatment, then actually getting those nhs waiting lists back down, starting to rebuild those important public services, that can be a transformational rate for your life, and that is why it is so important. it is about having a new course for the country, about changing the direction that we go in, rather than just struggling, rather than getting stuck in the doom loop that we have got into under the conservatives, because we just cannot afford five more years of this. so i think there is a whole series of areas where we can make big changes to our country, starts to get back on track again. yeah. you're absolutely right, for every extra operation, that is so important for that individual. for every extra teacher, that is so important for pupils. but you have called it transformational, and we have seen what the party has pledged in your recent pledges, that is not

transformational — it is change but not transformational. transformational - it is change but not transformational.— transformational - it is change but not transformational. well, you know the really sad — not transformational. well, you know the really sad thing _ not transformational. well, you know the really sad thing is _ not transformational. well, you know the really sad thing is that _ the really sad thing is that economic stability, as you are getting economic stability back, is a radical thing to do now after the turbulence in the chaos that we have had under the conservatives. the fact that we have had such weak growth for 1h years, the fact that we have had this cost of living crisis, the fact that families are really struggling and people are worse off now than they were not just back at the last election, may be back even 1a years ago for many people. so getting that stability, getting that growth, actually, that is a radical thing to do now. it shouldn't be, but it has become so because of the chaos that we have got. and that has to be the foundation of getting the economy growing again. we are clear, of course, you cannotjust keep doing sticking plasters that do not really change anything, because some of the things we want to see, the big change in the direction of our country will take time. we want to set up a new great british energy, a

publicly owned renewable energy company that can bring down energy bills, can set us on a proper course for the future. so there are big things that we can do, they will take time, some of them, but i think we can also make changes quickly, just feeling like we are putting the chaos behind us, turn the page, get change for the future.— change for the future. doctors alwa s change for the future. doctors always want — change for the future. doctors always want to _ change for the future. doctors always want to hear _ change for the future. doctors always want to hear real - change for the future. doctors. always want to hear real detail, change for the future. doctors - always want to hear real detail, so say for example the nhs. —— voters. in terms of the labour guarantee on waiting lists, if you are waiting for cancer treatment or a major operation, what is your guarantee of where you will be in 12 months�* time if you win? we where you will be in 12 months' time if ou win? ~ , ., where you will be in 12 months' time if you win?— if you win? we will set out more details as _ if you win? we will set out more details as part — if you win? we will set out more details as part of _ if you win? we will set out more details as part of the _ if you win? we will set out more details as part of the manifesto, but the plans we have set out so far as part of the first step, the pledges that keir starmer has set out, means having an additional 40,000 appointments every week to be able to get those waiting list down, to be able to properly speed up the

treatment that people desperately need. that is really important, it does mean having weekend appointments, it does mean having evening appointments. of course, we have longer term plans that we want to reform the nhs and to make sure that we are properly training the doctors and the nurses, the dentists, the reforms that we need for the future, but the first step is really practical and start straightaway.— is really practical and start straiahtawa . . . , is really practical and start straiahtawa . . ., , , straightaway. that was yvette cooper for labour. straightaway. that was yvette cooper for labour- the _ straightaway. that was yvette cooper for labour. the prime _ straightaway. that was yvette cooper for labour. the prime minister- straightaway. that was yvette cooper for labour. the prime minister was i for labour. the prime minister was out of the traps really quickly this morning, he has been campaigning in england, we have seen in wales, next stop is northern ireland and scotland over the coming hours, but the scottish first minister, john swinney, has been talking in the last hour, hour and a half, at his campaign rally in edinburgh, he said the snp would fight to put scotland first despite the constitutional situation. for those who are not persuaded of independence, i look forward over the next six weeks to listening to

your concerns, making the case, hopefully persuading, but if not an engaging and respectful dialogue. for those who are already persuaded, i can�*t stress enough how important it is to vote snp onjuly the 4th. we will win our country�*s independence, and win the powers to bring about a better scotland, through democratic pressure. so, on july the 4th, independence day, make sure your voice is heard. and on that issue of making scotland�*s voice heard, the snp will always fight to further scotland�*s interest under any constitutional circumstances. quite simply, we put scotland first. i expect over the next six weeks we will see the tories and labour are really going at it. they will be going hammer and tongs to discredit each other. i will also be going hammer and tongs, but not against anyone — i will be going hammer and tongs to put scotland first.—

scotland first. that is the latest from john swinney, _ scotland first. that is the latest from john swinney, plenty - scotland first. that is the latest| from john swinney, plenty more scotland first. that is the latest - from john swinney, plenty more on the situation on campaigning in scotland and a little while, that will be so important at this election. let�*s take a moment now to focus on the general election situation in wales. because of boundary changes, the number of seats being contest will drop from 40 to 32. we can speak now to plaid cymru�*s leader at westminster, liz saville roberts. welcome to the programme, a quick question at the top, did this election catch on the hop? filth. question at the top, did this election catch on the hop? 0h, we have been — election catch on the hop? 0h, we have been ready _ election catch on the hop? 0h, we have been ready for _ election catch on the hop? 0h, we have been ready for it, _ election catch on the hop? 0h, we have been ready for it, we - election catch on the hop? 0h, we have been ready for it, we have i election catch on the hop? 0h, we i have been ready for it, we have been expecting it, and like very many people, we felt that november was way too late and, yeah, we are glad we are the process now where we look to see a change on the horizon. what to see a change on the horizon. what is the best case _ to see a change on the horizon. what is the best case scenario _ to see a change on the horizon. what is the best case scenario for your party? is the best case scenario for your -a ? is the best case scenario for your .a ? ., ., ., is the best case scenario for your -a ? . ., ., , party? 0h, we are going to be standin: party? 0h, we are going to be standing candidates _ party? 0h, we are going to be standing candidates across i party? 0h, we are going to be - standing candidates across wales. i

think, as you well know, we are losing 20% of our mps, going down from 40 to 32, and that makes every constituency but want a different shape, larger, and unfamiliar territory, but we will certainly be campaigning really strongly. i have been out today in caernarfon, and the party�*s leader, rhun ap iorwerth, is presently travelling up wales, reaching people along the way. wales, reaching people along the wa . ., ., wales, reaching people along the wa . . ., ., wales, reaching people along the wa . ., ., ., ., wales, reaching people along the wa i ., ., ., ., way. having a labour government in wales, way. having a labour government in wales. you — way. having a labour government in wales. you have _ way. having a labour government in wales, you have a _ way. having a labour government in wales, you have a national- wales, you have a national conservative government, does that make it trickier, how to pitch your campaign? in make it trickier, how to pitch your cam ai . n? make it trickier, how to pitch your campaign?— make it trickier, how to pitch your camaiun? , , ., campaign? in the sense of getting our message _ campaign? in the sense of getting our message through, _ campaign? in the sense of getting our message through, i _ campaign? in the sense of getting our message through, i think- campaign? in the sense of getting our message through, i think it i our message through, i think it gives us a unique message here, and the snp were touching on this as well. if we have a huge majority of the labour party in westminster, and i don�*t think there is anybody except the few bookies taking money

on anyone other than keir starmer being the next prime minister, we know how it feels in wales for labour to take us for granted, and talking about those numbers of mps, getting that voice for wales in westminster, when it looks to have this massive shift. of course, we had a massive tory majority back in 2019, five years ago, to have a massive labour majority in westminster doesn�*t bode well for those parts of the country where labour is not interested, because they take us for granted. that is why it really matters to have a voice from plaid cymru, to have that wales specific interest, because we know otherwise we will get left behind in terms of our economy, we know that we get left behind in the way that infrastructure is designed from westminster. keeping that voice there, and our major messages, three major messages, one of them is fair funding for wales, we need funding according to need. it is not plaid cymru asking for that, then nobody

is asking for it. we want fairness for families is asking for it. we want fairness forfamilies in terms is asking for it. we want fairness for families in terms of benefits, and we want fairness, of course, for patients, and that is also dependent on the amount of money and whether we get money according to need, which of course under the present formula we do not. do which of course under the present formula we do not.— formula we do not. do you really, thou~h, formula we do not. do you really, though. think _ formula we do not. do you really, though, think that _ formula we do not. do you really, though, think that is _ formula we do not. do you really, though, think that is a _ formula we do not. do you really, though, think that is a strong - though, think that is a strong pitch, to go to the electorate and say to them, vote for us, don�*t give labour a massive majority? is that a strong pitch, do you think? i imagine that you have been keeping up imagine that you have been keeping up with the issues in the senedd and the first minister, how he took a dodgy donation of £200,000, and that cuts through. the first minister here, there are now really serious questions about his political judgment, and alongside that with his competency. here in wales, how labour treats people here in wales, and how they treat public services in wales, and a lack of answer ability, that is something that people are really, really allude to,

so i�*m confident that our voice, with our new leader, rhun ap iorwerth, people know how it has been under 14 years of the tories, we have seen how austerity has hit our communities worst, our employment was. that is under a huge majority and lack of an stability under the tories. if labour have a large majority without that voice for wales, that will have a direct and negative effect on our communities, so i think we will be getting our message through. people now when they have that plaid cymru representatives, be that in the senedd or westminster, they know that those representatives are rooted in their communities, and i put those communities first, they are not answerable to a political party which has its headquarters in london. �* , ., party which has its headquarters in london. �* y., ., party which has its headquarters in london. �* ., , london. and if you asked voters, what is different, _ london. and if you asked voters, what is different, why _ london. and if you asked voters, what is different, why should - london. and if you asked voters, | what is different, why should they vote for you, on those critical

issues that concern them, health, education, cost of living, what is your answer in terms of policy differences?— your answer in terms of policy differences? ~ . ., differences? well, i mean, we are lookin: differences? well, i mean, we are looking for— differences? well, i mean, we are looking for funding _ differences? well, i mean, we are looking for funding according - differences? well, i mean, we are looking for funding according to i looking for funding according to need for wales. we are the only party that is consistently calling for the funding for hs2, the extra 4 billion that would bring to wales, to come to our public transport. labour will not do that. and we are talking about the devolution of the crown estate, giving us control over our natural resources here and bring more money into wales for us to decide how best to use, and we have seen under this outgoing tory government help levelling up has been used as a political pawn, if you like, of pork barrel politics, where we will double our money if you think we will give you political advantage. we are arguing that we need to be able to develop our communities and our economy, we need the funding to do that. not only do we want it in a fairfunding the funding to do that. not only do we want it in a fair funding formula from london, but we also want it in

the crown estate, which is devolved in scotland, and hs2, which is counted as a wales and england project, where we get not a single inch of track, fundamentally unfair, and we could use that to develop things. liz and we could use that to develop thins. .,, , and we could use that to develop thins. ., , , ., things. liz saville roberts, we have to leave it there, _ things. liz saville roberts, we have to leave it there, but _ things. liz saville roberts, we have to leave it there, but thank - things. liz saville roberts, we have to leave it there, but thank you - things. liz saville roberts, we have to leave it there, but thank you for| to leave it there, but thank you for joining us live on the programme. enjoy the next few weeks of campaigning. well, let�*s continue the conversation here in downing street. with me, as she has been for the last few hours, alicia fitzgerald, and we haven�*t really talked about campaigning style, in terms of what to expect over the coming weeks, principally from rishi sunak and sir keir starmer. we know with the likes of tony blair and david cameron, they were what you might describe as natural campaign is — what you think of this particular election? weill. of this particular election? well, annoyingly _ of this particular election? well, annoyingly for — of this particular election? well, annoyingly for both _ of this particular election? well, annoyingly for both of _ of this particular election? well, annoyingly for both of them, -

of this particular election? well, annoyingly for both of them, a l annoyingly for both of them, a criticism for both of them, they lack charisma. rishi sunak is often credited, not credited, discredited for being a bit out of touch with the electorate, for not understanding the real needs of working people, and keir starmer often called a little bit boring, and neither of those people at the moment, a lot of the electorate feel they can capture the imagination, so that will definitely be a hell that they both have to mount to try to win over some of those people. i think what keir starmer wants to do isjust proof that think what keir starmer wants to do is just proof that he is steady, that he is strong, not there to mess around and he is not going to engage in the kind of petty fights that you can very easily get swept up into in a general election campaign. rishi sunak, however, he has already been accused of getting a little bit too personal in terms of his insults and attacks towards keir starmer, so i�*m sure we will definitely see that mmp sure we will definitely see that ramp up over the coming weeks. how much interaction would you expect with the public? would you

expect with the public? would you expect there to be a lot of interaction or would you expect those leaders perhaps to keep a step back? we those leaders perhaps to keep a step back? ~ . ., ., , those leaders perhaps to keep a step back? . . ., ., , , those leaders perhaps to keep a step back? ., ., ., , , ., those leaders perhaps to keep a step back? . ., ., , , ., ,, back? we have already seen today sir keir starmer — back? we have already seen today sir keir starmer as _ back? we have already seen today sir keir starmer as a _ back? we have already seen today sir keir starmer as a football _ back? we have already seen today sir keir starmer as a football pitch - keir starmer as a football pitch drumming and how much he loves football and how much she can relate and bond with the electorate about that. and then rishi sunak at the brewery speaking to local area about issues that matter most to them. you can expect to see both of those two main leaders notjust of the main parties but also of the lib dems and the scottish national party amongst all the other smaller parties all fighting for the single, trying to bond with the electorate. this is a chance to go to the places they don�*t often visit and to leave westminster and gone find out what the problems are on the ground and prove to the electorate they are the people to solve it. we prove to the electorate they are the people to solve it.— people to solve it. we are at day one of an _ people to solve it. we are at day one of an election _ people to solve it. we are at day one of an election campaign, - people to solve it. we are at day one of an election campaign, wej people to solve it. we are at day - one of an election campaign, we have seen with the polls. it�*s an enormous mountain for the conservative party to climb. but

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