donald trump becomes the first former or serving president to be convicted of a crime. andrew neiljoins us live from new york to digest what it all means. also today... back on the campaign trail, but keir starmer is still facing accusations he's trying to oust left—wing candidates. this former labour mp speaks to us exclusively about his suspension by the party following a complaint. what has happened is i've been a sacrificial lamb. it is one system if you are very at the top or in the clique and another system if you are not. and we hearfrom the snp as scotland's first minister campaigns in glasgow. joining us today. conservative cabinet minister mel stride. labour's meg hillier. political consultant and former conservative adviserjo tanner. and bloomberg's ailbhe rea. this is politics live election 202a.

well, let's start with the big news overnight that donald trump has become the first president in american history to be convicted of a crime. let's take a look at some of the front pages. this is the times. pictures of him in the new york court, where he was tried and found guilty on all counts of falsifying business records. the daily telegraph... he has his eyes closed there. let's have a look at another trump page. closed there. let's have a look at anothertrump page. —— closed there. let's have a look at another trump page. —— front page. one word on the new york times, guilty. and a different take in the new york post, injustice.

let's get your reaction when you heard the news, ailbhe. it’s heard the news, ailbhe. it's extraordinary, _ heard the news, ailbhe. it�*s extraordinary, isn't it? guilty of all charges. my boot colleagues were covering this in the states, we just need to see what happens, and what kind of sentence you get and if he gets sent to prison, it looks likely he will appeal so this will drag on. what was your reaction?— what was your reaction? firstly, i was like, what was your reaction? firstly, i was like. my _ what was your reaction? firstly, i was like, my gosh, _ what was your reaction? firstly, i was like, my gosh, this _ what was your reaction? firstly, i was like, my gosh, this is - what was your reaction? firstly, i was like, my gosh, this is going l what was your reaction? firstly, i l was like, my gosh, this is going to derail_ was like, my gosh, this is going to derail everything because you could pre-empt_ derail everything because you could pre—empt what he was going to say. i'm going _ pre—empt what he was going to say. i'm going to— pre—empt what he was going to say. i'm going to attack everybody else, this i'm going to attack everybody else, thisjury_ i'm going to attack everybody else, thisjury has returned the verdict. and i_ thisjury has returned the verdict. and i am — thisjury has returned the verdict. and i am intrigued on how it will play out — and i am intrigued on how it will play out here because there are some bil play out here because there are some big questions for the leaders that are going — big questions for the leaders that are going to be asked about how they will deal— are going to be asked about how they will deal with the president, a former— will deal with the president, a former president who might be elected. — former president who might be elected, it will make for an interesting next few months. it interesting next few months. certainly interesting next few months. it certainly will. meg, what did you think when you heard the news? i saw

think when you heard the news? i saw all 34 and that — think when you heard the news? i saw all 34 and that was _ think when you heard the news? i saw all 34 and that was the _ think when you heard the news? i saw all 34 and that was the first time i had picked — all 34 and that was the first time i had picked up _ all 34 and that was the first time i had picked up the _ all 34 and that was the first time i had picked up the headline - all 34 and that was the first time i had picked up the headline and ii all 34 and that was the first time i i had picked up the headline and i was really— had picked up the headline and i was really shocked~ — had picked up the headline and i was really shocked. it's _ had picked up the headline and i was really shocked. it's quite _ had picked up the headline and i was really shocked. it's quite a _ had picked up the headline and i was really shocked. it's quite a reeling i really shocked. it's quite a reeling thing. _ really shocked. it's quite a reeling thing. that— really shocked. it's quite a reeling thing, that someone _ really shocked. it's quite a reeling thing, that someone who - really shocked. it's quite a reeling thing, that someone who was - really shocked. it's quite a reeling thing, that someone who was the | thing, that someone who was the leader— thing, that someone who was the leader of— thing, that someone who was the leader of the _ thing, that someone who was the leader of the free _ thing, that someone who was the leader of the free world _ thing, that someone who was the leader of the free world as - thing, that someone who was the leader of the free world as they. leader of the free world as they like to— leader of the free world as they like to describe _ leader of the free world as they like to describe themselves - leader of the free world as they like to describe themselves in i leader of the free world as they. like to describe themselves in the united _ like to describe themselves in the united states— like to describe themselves in the united states has— like to describe themselves in the united states has had _ like to describe themselves in the united states has had this - united states has had this conviction. _ united states has had this conviction. i— united states has had this conviction. i think- united states has had this conviction. i think there i united states has had this. conviction. i think there are united states has had this - conviction. i think there are big challenges _ conviction. i think there are big challenges ahead, _ conviction. i think there are big challenges ahead, it _ conviction. i think there are big challenges ahead, it could - conviction. i think there are big challenges ahead, it could butl conviction. i think there are big l challenges ahead, it could but up i’ilht challenges ahead, it could but up right up— challenges ahead, it could but up right up against— challenges ahead, it could but up right up against the _ challenges ahead, it could but up right up against the republican . right up against the republican selection — right up against the republican selection and _ right up against the republican selection and the _ right up against the republican selection and the us _ right up against the republican selection and the us election l selection and the us election because _ selection and the us election because of— selection and the us election because of the _ selection and the us election because of the appeal. - selection and the us election because of the appeal. find i selection and the us election because of the appeal. and welcome for the second _ because of the appeal. and welcome for the second time _ because of the appeal. and welcome for the second time this _ because of the appeal. and welcome for the second time this week, - because of the appeal. and welcome for the second time this week, mel. for the second time this week, mel stride, are they only letting it out at conservative headquarters? i am at conservative headquarters? i am here by penular_ at conservative headquarters? i —.n here by popular demand! at conservative headquarters? i am here by popular demand! of - at conservative headquarters? i am| here by popular demand! of course, of course! we _ here by popular demand! of course, of course! we are _ here by popular demand! of course, of course! we are very _ here by popular demand! of course, of course! we are very pleased - here by popular demand! of course, of course! we are very pleased to i of course! we are very pleased to have you here twice in one week. your response to the story? this have you here twice in one week. your response to the story? as with eve bod your response to the story? as with everybody else. _ your response to the story? as with everybody else. an _ your response to the story? as with everybody else, an extraordinary i everybody else, an extraordinary moment in the us. not entirely unprecedented, i believe there was a communist that ran for the presidency of the united states 100 years ago and did it from prison. but i'm not going to say anything at all because as a uk cabinet minister, we keep right out of us

elections. i will not say anything one way or another, rather than it is the american people that decide. let's go to new york and speak to someone very familiar to the programme, and to me, and a veteran follower of the us politic, andrew neil. ., ., ., follower of the us politic, andrew neil. ., ., you are neil. hello, good afternoon. you are in the city which _ neil. hello, good afternoon. you are in the city which has _ neil. hello, good afternoon. you are in the city which has made _ neil. hello, good afternoon. you are in the city which has made donald i in the city which has made donald trump and is now convicted him, we are in uncharted territory? yes. trump and is now convicted him, we are in uncharted territory?— are in uncharted territory? yes, the first ever former _ are in uncharted territory? yes, the first ever former president - are in uncharted territory? yes, the first ever former president to i are in uncharted territory? yes, the first ever former president to be i first ever former president to be convicted of a crime. that hasn't happened before. it will of course be appealed, but the appeal will not be appealed, but the appeal will not be resolved this side of november. so in other words, we go into the election with this hanging over us. mr biden and his people will say, do you want it convicted felon as your president? doesn't this confirm our view that he has never been fit to be in the white house or any public office, never mind the highest? mr

trump's people will say, i am a political prisoner, the victim of the political witch hunt. they couldn't beat me at the ballot box so they fixed to the courts, a democraticjudge and jury, a democraticjudge and jury, a democratic district attorney, to stop me from becoming president. the verdict on that, the people, on november the 5th, will have to decide which version of events they choose before they vote.— decide which version of events they choose before they vote. andrew, a lot of people _ choose before they vote. andrew, a lot of people will _ choose before they vote. andrew, a lot of people will want _ choose before they vote. andrew, a lot of people will want to _ choose before they vote. andrew, a lot of people will want to know, i lot of people will want to know, will donald trump go to jail? will donald trump go to “ail? well, we don't will donald trump go to “ail? well, we don-t know * will donald trump go to “ail? well, we don't know that. i will donald trump go to jail? in we don't know that. sentencing isn't until the 11th ofjuly, three days before the republican convention in milwaukee where mr trump will be crowned the republican, official presidential candidate for 2024. it is a white collar crime, he is a first offender on these things, it's unusualfor first offender on these things, it's unusual forjail first offender on these things, it's unusualforjail time to first offender on these things, it's unusual forjail time to be given. evenif unusual forjail time to be given. even if he is givenjail time, the

judge, and the republicans say he might because he is an anti—trump judge, they claim, he will not go to jail because the appeal process. that from having. there is nothing in the us constitution stopping someone running for president from jail or a convicted felon. mel stride was right, but he wasn't a community communist, he was an anti—conscription campaigner, woodrow wilson threw him in jail and he ran for president and got a million votes. i interviewed him and he was an interesting character. it he was an interesting character. it does seem incredible that many —— to many people that none of this would prevent him running for president. you have outlined the campaign

pictures if you like, but what will be on voters in the united states who are not natural trump supporters but might have considered voting for him if he were running? first but might have considered voting for him if he were running?— him if he were running? first of all, this him if he were running? first of all. this has _ him if he were running? first of all, this has further _ him if he were running? first of all, this has further divided i him if he were running? first of all, this has further divided and j all, this has further divided and already highly polarised country. this has confirmed everything the biden base didn't like and hated about trump, and confirmed everything the trump base thinks about the system being stacked against them. mr biden and mr trump have been —— have a visceral hatred of each other. i think it will fire up of each other. i think it will fire up mr trump of each other. i think it will fire up mrtrump more of each other. i think it will fire up mr trump more because the biden camp, i speak to a lot of people in a democratic nurturing —— democratic national committee, the biden campaign is tottering, he is visibly ageing in front of us whereas trump will get a new lease of life. the issue is, how is this going to go

down amongst centrists, moderates and independents, particularly suburban women. how this is interpreted in the suburbs and that it's further out from the city centre, in detroit, milwaukee and philadelphia, will determine the outcome of the 2024 presidential election. ~ ., ., ,, , outcome of the 2024 presidential election. . ., ., ,, , , election. whatever happens, there is the very real — election. whatever happens, there is the very real prospect _ election. whatever happens, there is the very real prospect that _ election. whatever happens, there is the very real prospect that whoever l the very real prospect that whoever wins the general election here in the uk could well be dealing with a convicted felon. what strains or difficulties will that bring to the uk's relationship, if any, with the us? ~ uk's relationship, if any, with the us? , us? well, some politicians in britain have _ us? well, some politicians in britain have already - us? well, some politicians in britain have already tied i britain have already tied themselves in knots over donald trump. he is a difficult candidate to know how to deal with. difficult candidate to know how to dealwith. david lammy difficult candidate to know how to deal with. david lammy the shadow home secretary at one stage was referring to mr trump as a nazi. in

the past month, mr lambie has been reaching out to trump people, and he has met them. so, from nancy too, can i meet you? —— not see too, can i meet you? because convicted felon or not, the british prime minister will have to deal with him whether we like it or not. we live in a world of realpolitik, whoever runs america it doesn't take away from the fact that it is by far our most important ally. we have got a visibly ailing president and a convicted felon as his opponent, so this is a good day for president by —— for president putin in moscow and president xi in chinese. western democracy could be seen to be in the dirt and not up to the challenges that the world faces. you

dirt and not up to the challenges that the world faces.— dirt and not up to the challenges that the world faces. you have an excitin: that the world faces. you have an exciting few _ that the world faces. you have an exciting few months _ that the world faces. you have an exciting few months to _ that the world faces. you have an exciting few months to a - that the world faces. you have an exciting few months to a head, i that the world faces. you have an i exciting few months to a head, let's put it like that.— exciting few months to a head, let's put it like that._ great i put it like that. sure have! great to talk to you. _ put it like that. sure have! great to talk to you. yes, _ put it like that. sure have! great to talk to you. yes, david i put it like that. sure have! great i to talk to you. yes, david lammy, shadow home secretary, may be becoming the foreign secretary, changed his tone, a bit of realpolitik was like andrew is right,. realpolitik was like andrew is ri . ht,. ~ realpolitik was like andrew is rirht,. ~ . realpolitik was like andrew is riaht,.~ ., ., realpolitik was like andrew is rirht,. ., ., ., ., , right,. we have to deal with leaders who are elected _ right,. we have to deal with leaders who are elected and _ right,. we have to deal with leaders who are elected and not _ right,. we have to deal with leaders who are elected and not elected, i right,. we have to deal with leaders who are elected and not elected, of| who are elected and not elected, of course. , , ., who are elected and not elected, of course. , ,., . , who are elected and not elected, of course. , , ._ course. this is our closest ally. you have _ course. this is our closest ally. you have to — course. this is our closest ally. you have to deal _ course. this is our closest ally. you have to deal with - course. this is our closest ally. you have to deal with what i course. this is our closest ally. you have to deal with what you course. this is our closest ally. i you have to deal with what you have got. we are due to have a new ambassador in washington as well just after, i think they will be taking over injanuary just after, i think they will be taking over in january whenever the new president is elected. that will have to be an engagement and any government will engage, keir starmer if he is elected as prime minister, with the president whoever it is. whoever wins the election, what will be going through their minds? rishi sunak keir starmer, in that first visit, if it is donald trump? i think that probably, common

interests _ think that probably, common interests are tramping personalities. there are so many threats— personalities. there are so many threats from china, issues with russia — threats from china, issues with russia and _ threats from china, issues with russia and ukraine and so on and so forth, _ russia and ukraine and so on and so forth, we _ russia and ukraine and so on and so forth, we have a commonality of interest— forth, we have a commonality of interest that will bind us together as has— interest that will bind us together as has traditionally been the case over decades. i think that will win through. — over decades. i think that will win through, whatever. do over decades. i think that will win through, whatever.— through, whatever. do you think --eole through, whatever. do you think people are _ through, whatever. do you think people are already _ through, whatever. do you think people are already thinking i through, whatever. do you think| people are already thinking about the consequences of what could happen in november? a snap election has meant that we are not rubbing what up against us politics in that sense. ml what up against us politics in that sense. �* , what up against us politics in that sense. ~ , ., ., , ,, sense. all parties that are sensible about getting _ sense. all parties that are sensible about getting into _ sense. all parties that are sensible about getting into government, - sense. all parties that are sensible about getting into government, all| about getting into government, all governments look ahead and they see what the _ governments look ahead and they see what the eventualities might be and see what— what the eventualities might be and see what the best position will be to do— see what the best position will be to do that — see what the best position will be to do that and we have a fantastic foreign _ to do that and we have a fantastic foreign service good at doing just that so_ foreign service good at doing just that so that will be... they foreign service good at doing 'ust that so that will be. . .i that so that will be... they might all be leaving _ that so that will be... they might all be leaving in _ that so that will be... they might all be leaving in droves, - that so that will be... they might all be leaving in droves, worried| all be leaving in droves, worried about— all be leaving in droves, worried about what _ all be leaving in droves, worried about what is _ all be leaving in droves, worried about what is coming _ all be leaving in droves, worried about what is coming around - all be leaving in droves, worried| about what is coming around the comet — about what is coming around the comet it — about what is coming around the corner. it doesn't _ about what is coming around the corner. it doesn't feel— about what is coming around the corner. it doesn't feel like - about what is coming around the corner. it doesn't feel like the i corner. it doesn't feel like the diplomatic— corner. it doesn't feel like the diplomatic service _ corner. it doesn't feel like the diplomatic service will - corner. it doesn't feel like the diplomatic service will be - corner. it doesn't feel like the diplomatic service will be an l corner. it doesn't feel like the i diplomatic service will be an area you will_ diplomatic service will be an area you will want _ diplomatic service will be an area

you will want to _ diplomatic service will be an area you will want to be _ diplomatic service will be an area you will want to be in. _ diplomatic service will be an area you will want to be in. or- diplomatic service will be an area you will want to be in.— diplomatic service will be an area you will want to be in. or you might be called on — you will want to be in. or you might be called on for _ you will want to be in. or you might be called on for more _ you will want to be in. or you might be called on for more diplomacy - you will want to be in. or you might. be called on for more diplomacy than ever, ailbhe. it is be called on for more diplomacy than ever. ailbhe-— ever, ailbhe. it is looking very likel it ever, ailbhe. it is looking very likely it will — ever, ailbhe. it is looking very likely it will be _ ever, ailbhe. it is looking very likely it will be david - ever, ailbhe. it is looking very likely it will be david lammy l ever, ailbhe. it is looking very| likely it will be david lammy as foreign secretary in a few weeks and you can see already that this will be difficult for part of the labour party to swallow, the approach that they will be taking with regards to donald trump. sadiq khan has had very public differences with donald trump in the past, he has been critical of david lammy�*s charm offensive in america. we have seen in other areas of foreign policy. david lammy and the labour leadership have acted like a man in waiting so they have tracked the us line on israel and gaza for example. that has had a small electoral impact in parts of the country, people upset the line that keir starmer took. people upset the line that keir starmertook. in people upset the line that keir starmer took. in general, there are a lot of mps who are not comfortable with it. we have seen foreign policy destroy a labour government in the past, and it is looking likely this

time. ., past, and it is looking likely this time. . ., ., , , time. there are already problems here, of course. _ time. there are already problems here, of course. the _ time. there are already problems here, of course. the dispute - time. there are already problems - here, of course. the dispute between keir starmer and ageand arena, the man who would like to be prime minister, the labour leader, —— and angela rayner. he is campaigning with his deputy. they are campaigning at the moment, keir starmer is with anas sarwar in scotland this morning. they are taking different positions, angela rayner is there with keir starmer, over the future of the labour mp diane abbott. she was readmitted after a long suspension over comments she made overjewish, irish and travel are people not experiencing races in all their lives. keir starmersays experiencing races in all their lives. keir starmer says she has not been barred as a —— racism all their lives. keir starmersays been barred as a —— racism all their lives. keir starmer says she has not been barred as a candidate in the seat she has represented for a long time, she says she has. angela rayner said yesterday she should be allowed to stand. ailbhe, either way, how is this row looking to the

public in terms of the way it has handled, and the impact on the election campaign? i handled, and the impact on the election campaign?— handled, and the impact on the election campaign? i think that most --eole election campaign? i think that most peeple within — election campaign? i think that most people within labour _ election campaign? i think that most people within labour will _ election campaign? i think that most people within labour will say - election campaign? i think that most people within labour will say that. people within labour will say that they don't think this will change they don't think this will change the polls, actually. even if people who are very upset about it, although it doesn't seem there has been a little bit of a report that it could be filtering through because diane abbott is one of the most well—known politicians in the country stop what she is a trailblazer, people say. people do know her so it is cutting more than labour politicians expected. the fact it has not been taken into consideration, just the way this is filtering through to labour parties and activists, it's notjust people on the left of the party who feel she has not been treated very fairly. even though labour are miles ahead in the polls, they do need volunteers to get out and knock doors, that is the engine that drives the campaign. someone said to me yesterday, the people that keir starmer have forgotten, labour

members who are not particularly factional, it is a nice geography teacher who just factional, it is a nice geography teacher whojust cares factional, it is a nice geography teacher who just cares about fairness and if you alienate them, and they feel that diane abbott has been treated unfairly, they will not train —— turn up to campaign. we have already heard that in a few whatsapp groups, people worried they will not have their activist teams. you are an mp for neighbouring constituency, you probably know dianne extremely well, should she be allowed to stand? she has been let back into the labour— she has been let back into the labour party and reselected by members. they should be a rubber stamping — members. they should be a rubber stamping i— members. they should be a rubber stamping. i do not know the exact word~ _ stamping. i do not know the exact word it _ stamping. i do not know the exact word it is — stamping. i do not know the exact word it is a — stamping. i do not know the exact word. it is a process that has to be gone _ word. it is a process that has to be gone through. you need processes in party's _ gone through. you need processes in .a 's. ,, ., , gone through. you need processes in party's-_ yes- - gone through. you need processes in party's-_ yes- she - gone through. you need processes inj party's._ yes. she was party's. should she...? yes. she was the sittin: party's. should she...? yes. she was the sitting labour— party's. should she...? yes. she was the sitting labour mp _ party's. should she...? yes. she was the sitting labour mp at _ party's. should she...? yes. she was the sitting labour mp at the - party's. should she...? yes. she was the sitting labour mp at the point - the sitting labour mp at the point the sitting labour mp at the point the election was called. she will have _ the election was called. she will have gone through a process of

reselection as well to enforce it. it is really— reselection as well to enforce it. it is really unfortunate the way it has been — it is really unfortunate the way it has been handled. she cannotjust be barred _ has been handled. she cannotjust be barred she _ has been handled. she cannotjust be barred. she would need to have a discussion — barred. she would need to have a discussion. i hope she has not been barred _ discussion. i hope she has not been barred she — discussion. i hope she has not been barred. she has given the opportunity to make her own choice. it is about— opportunity to make her own choice. it is about 24— opportunity to make her own choice. it is about 24 years since i was first— it is about 24 years since i was first accepted for the london assembly. people who visit or know who she _ assembly. people who visit or know who she is — assembly. people who visit or know who she is. she has a reputation, whether— who she is. she has a reputation, whether with caribbean, south african — whether with caribbean, south african anc activists. they know who diane _ african anc activists. they know who diane abbott is. she has pushed the boundaries — diane abbott is. she has pushed the boundaries of political discourse in time and _ boundaries of political discourse in time and as a trailblazer. you want to see her — time and as a trailblazer. you want to see her stand? _ time and as a trailblazer. you want to see her stand? i— time and as a trailblazer. you want to see her stand? iwill— time and as a trailblazer. you want to see her stand? i will not - time and as a trailblazer. you want to see her stand? i will not speak. to see her stand? i will not speak for her. to see her stand? i will not speak for her- if — to see her stand? i will not speak for her. if she _ to see her stand? i will not speak for her. if she wants _ to see her stand? i will not speak for her. if she wants to _ to see her stand? i will not speak for her. if she wants to stand - to see her stand? i will not speak for her. if she wants to stand as l to see her stand? i will not speakj for her. if she wants to stand as a candidate, — for her. if she wants to stand as a candidate, there should be nothing to stop _ candidate, there should be nothing to stop her at this point. she was

readmitted as the labour mp for hackney— readmitted as the labour mp for hackney south at that point. it is a matter _ hackney south at that point. it is a matter now — hackney south at that point. it is a matter now for her to decide. i do not want — matter now for her to decide. i do not want to— matter now for her to decide. i do not want to predict what diane abbott — not want to predict what diane abbott would say.— not want to predict what diane abbott would say. peter kyle, a member of— abbott would say. peter kyle, a member of labour's _ abbott would say. peter kyle, a i member of labour's frontbencher abbott would say. peter kyle, a - member of labour's frontbencher has said diane has got herself into this situation, do you agree with him? she did apologise very quickly. she has gone through a long process. the complaints process has been very lengthy and left her in a difficult position. this week has been really unfortunate. it has not been fair to her and she has not been treated with dignity, trying to second guess what would be an nec decision involving diane abbott. for someone to say that to the national newspaper... i am assuming that was correct but i think it is really inappropriate.— correct but i think it is really inappropriate. correct but i think it is really ina--roriate. inappropriate. diane abbott has said it is art of

inappropriate. diane abbott has said it is part of the _ inappropriate. diane abbott has said it is part of the party _ inappropriate. diane abbott has said it is part of the party under - inappropriate. diane abbott has said it is part of the party under the - it is part of the party under the leadership of sir keir starmer carrying out a cull of left—wing candidates. carrying out a cull of left-wing candidates— carrying out a cull of left-wing candidates. ~ g , ., , carrying out a cull of left-wing candidates. g , ., _ candidates. when jeremy corbyn was in control, candidates. when jeremy corbyn was in control. i — candidates. when jeremy corbyn was in control, i had _ candidates. when jeremy corbyn was in control, i had to _ candidates. when jeremy corbyn was in control, i had to go _ candidates. when jeremy corbyn was in control, i had to go through - candidates. when jeremy corbyn was in control, i had to go through two i in control, i had to go through two very nasty attempts at deselection, all of us went through that. the rules were changed to try to make it really difficult for people. all sorts of challenges thrown in our path in an attempt to get rid of people like me. i railed against that and got through the processes. i deplore really anything seen as factional in any team. we need to look at people on their merits. let's listen to lloyd russell moyle, who has been labour mp of kemptown. he was stopped standing for the party a few days ago after a complaint was made against him a few

days ago. i asked him what choice did the labour party have other than suspend you and stop you standing for the party because of the complaint? well, they could have made sure that they asked me to be able to put in a proper response. that wasn't even an option and i had to force a response upon them from lawyers. they could have seen and checked the validity of the complainant, and they could have allowed me to stand and then investigate me afterwards, like they will do with many complaints. there's no accusation that i'm a current danger to anyone, i'm a current danger to the campaign. these are historic issues around behaviour. so you're saying that if you were a more important figure to the party leadership, they could have dealt with the complaint while still allowing you to stand as a candidate? of course, the rules state that there is a process. but we all know that the labour party would not have dealt with these complaints in this way if it was keir, or if it was

a senior shadow cabinet member. it would have brought down the labour party and they would have never have done that. so what's happened is i've been a sacrificial lamb because of that. now, i want the best for the labour party. i want the labour party to form government, and i wanted to be part of that, on youth policy, on housing policy, on the issues that i've been working on and i've got cross—party and in—party consensus on. and i think what has happened is a great shame, but what has exacerbated it is not then looking to find a local candidate that we know that we can transfer over to and work with, which is also added salt to the wounds, which i think is a great shame the process and i do think it raises wider questions about how the labour party operates. it is one system if you are very at the top or in the clique, and it is another system if you're not. and now that's not the fault of individuals, that's the fault of the system, it's the fault of the system that we allow nec members

to suddenly he parachuted into positions at the last moment when they're the judge and jury. and we mustn't allow that kind of potential for cronyism to happen. so what we need is a proper process that understands the politics of it. you can't have an independent process that doesn't understand the politics. meanwhile, a very close ally of keir starmer, chris ward, has been selected for the seat you were hoping to represent. diane abbott has described left wing candidates being blocked and allies of starmer being parachuted in as a cull. is she right? i think it would be better if the party made sure that when they are replacing mps at the last minute, they replaced them with mp5 that are similar in terms of ideological belief or from local roots. and i think that then those accusations wouldn't be able to be made. unfortunately, they're not doing that. so is there a cull of left wing candidates like you? well, quite clearly, the timing for me is highly suspicious.

the reappointment of the person who's replacing me is highly suspicious. and it does mean that those are accusations that anyone would end up making. should diane abbott be allowed to stand as a labour candidate in this election? i always agree with angela rayner, i think she should. what is your response listening to? i really feel annoyed. one of the challenges is that last—minute accusations can be made. it is something a lot of mps worry about. as lloyd said, he is not saying it is something that needs to be looked at. he is something that needs to be looked at. , , , is something that needs to be looked at. , _ , ., ., at. he is saying it is one rule for those in the _ at. he is saying it is one rule for those in the clique _ at. he is saying it is one rule for those in the clique at _ at. he is saying it is one rule for those in the clique at the - at. he is saying it is one rule for those in the clique at the top i at. he is saying it is one rule for those in the clique at the top in | those in the clique at the top in the shadow cabinet and another rule for everyone else.— for everyone else. there was a ma oral for everyone else. there was a mayoral candidate _ for everyone else. there was a mayoral candidate and - for everyone else. there was a mayoral candidate and an - for everyone else. there was a - mayoral candidate and an allegation was made about him and he was taken off the panel for the party selection at that point. we have

seen this sort of thing happening before. where there is a sensible point, i have said elsewhere, you need to look at it and review and make sure it is working unfit for purpose. that does not help lloyd. it means we need to make sure it is fair and seem it means we need to make sure it is fairand seem to it means we need to make sure it is fair and seem to be that people trust it. , ., ., ~' fair and seem to be that people trust it. , ~' fair and seem to be that people trust it. , ,, ., trust it. does it look like a conspiracy? _ trust it. does it look like a conspiracy? make - trust it. does it look like a conspiracy? make is - trust it. does it look like a conspiracy? make is right| trust it. does it look like a - conspiracy? make is right when jeremy corbyn was leader there were attempts, not successful, to deselect candidates on the other wing of the party. deselect candidates on the other wing of the party-— deselect candidates on the other wing of the party. definitely. it is the case that _ wing of the party. definitely. it is the case that keir— wing of the party. definitely. it is the case that keir starmer- wing of the party. definitely. it is the case that keir starmer has i wing of the party. definitely. it is i the case that keir starmer has gone further— the case that keir starmer has gone further thanjeremy the case that keir starmer has gone further than jeremy corbyn did, the case that keir starmer has gone further thanjeremy corbyn did, even though— further thanjeremy corbyn did, even though it _ further thanjeremy corbyn did, even though it did happen underjeremy corbyn _ though it did happen underjeremy corbyn. the only thing is the tories do plan _ corbyn. the only thing is the tories do plan to— corbyn. the only thing is the tories do plan to do this in the coming days _ do plan to do this in the coming da s. , ., do plan to do this in the coming da s. , . , , ., , days. they are desperately scrabbling _ days. they are desperately scrabbling around - days. they are desperately scrabbling around for i days. they are desperately i scrabbling around for candidates. how does it look to you? is this party focusing on discipline? they

have set a very high bar. it is a changed labour party. that is what keir starmer wants to project and they want their candidates to be of they want their candidates to be of the highest standard. hazard they want their candidates to be of the highest standard.— they want their candidates to be of the highest standard. lloyd has got a articular the highest standard. lloyd has got a particular situation. _ the highest standard. lloyd has got a particular situation. to _ the highest standard. lloyd has got a particular situation. to complain l a particular situation. to complain about the process because you are then subjected to it, it is a bit like donald trump, complaining about it after the event. the reality is the labour party says it wants whistle—blowers in public life, in public services. they said they want people to be able to speak up. if someone had a genuine concern about a potential candidate, they should have the right to report it. we do not know enough about the allegations to look at the marriot. the second thing, the problem that keir starmer has, which is a shame, he is trying to show he has taken control, the prime minister in waiting, but then they bungled it along the way because of the way the

week has gone. they had a situation where we have sort of done something, was there a deal, was there not a deal? then restoring the web. diane abbott, there is always a split at the top of the party. also the nec thing happening a few days away. they have caused misery for themselves. some people will say, it is good, it is right that keir starmer is taking the trouble. we have had a prime minister it has been perceived and previous prime ministers who have not taken action about ministers and there has been a lack of action. keir starmer could have looked very much in control and in charge. i have looked very much in control and in charae. ., . ., i. in charge. i do agree that you need a process — in charge. i do agree that you need a process we _ in charge. i do agree that you need a process. we have _ in charge. i do agree that you need a process. we have had _ in charge. i do agree that you need a process. we have had some i in charge. i do agree that you need. a process. we have had some pretty bad mps _ a process. we have had some pretty bad mps elected.— bad mps elected. does it really matter? another _ bad mps elected. does it really

matter? another person - bad mps elected. does it really l matter? another person standing bad mps elected. does it really i matter? another person standing as bad mps elected. does it really - matter? another person standing as a conservative candidate up till about 24 hours ago, mark logan, has said he will no longer stand as a conservative mp. he is going to back labour. bracing the feeling of 1997 when tony blair was swept in on a landslide. let's see what he has to say. the time has come to bring back optimism into british public life and within my constituents in bolton north east. i think for too long there has been a kind of sense of negativity, there has been a sense of decline and over a long period of time, i have just felt that when i looked back to my teenage years in 1997, whenever labour came to the fore at that time, we obviously heard the song things can only get better. i feel we are at that point again in british politics and british history and that is why i have decided i will be going for labour at this next election on 4thjuly. so, it is always sad when a colleague needs, as mark has done.

if you _ colleague needs, as mark has done. if you look— colleague needs, as mark has done. if you look at the q colleague needs, as mark has done. if you look at the 0 published at the time — if you look at the 0 published at the time he took his decision to make _ the time he took his decision to make this — the time he took his decision to make this move, there is not a single — make this move, there is not a single labour policy or aspiration or anything specific in right parliamentary latter.- or anything specific in right parliamentary latter. does it matter? it — parliamentary latter. does it matter? it goes _ parliamentary latter. does it matter? it goes to _ parliamentary latter. does it matter? it goes to the heartj parliamentary latter. does it i matter? it goes to the heart of parliamentary latter. does it - matter? it goes to the heart of what the general — matter? it goes to the heart of what the general election _ matter? it goes to the heart of what the general election campaign i matter? it goes to the heart of what the general election campaign is i the general election campaign is about _ the general election campaign is about. we have come through a really tough _ about. we have come through a really tough time _ about. we have come through a really tough time with covid and recovering from that, _ tough time with covid and recovering from that, and inflation and the war _ from that, and inflation and the war. ., ., ., , from that, and inflation and the war. ., ., ., , ., from that, and inflation and the war. ., ., ., war. inflation has come down. it has not convinced _ war. inflation has come down. it has not convinced dan _ war. inflation has come down. it has not convinced dan porter, _ war. inflation has come down. it has not convinced dan porter, natalie i not convinced dan porter, natalie elphicke. and lucy allen is standing down. we elphicke. and lucy allen is standing down. ~ ., elphicke. and lucy allen is standing down. ~ . ., elphicke. and lucy allen is standing down. ~ ., ., , elphicke. and lucy allen is standing down. . . ., , . ., elphicke. and lucy allen is standing down. . . . ,~ ., elphicke. and lucy allen is standing down. . . ,~ ., ., down. we have a very clear plan that continues to — down. we have a very clear plan that continues to make _ down. we have a very clear plan that continues to make the _ down. we have a very clear plan that continues to make the process i down. we have a very clear plan that continues to make the process and l down. we have a very clear plan that. continues to make the process and we have no— continues to make the process and we have no plan— continues to make the process and we have no plan with keir starmer. diane _ have no plan with keir starmer. diane abbott, i have been very patient — diane abbott, i have been very patient. let me make point. what we are overlooking, it says more about keir starmer than diane abbott. i

think— keir starmer than diane abbott. i think he — keir starmer than diane abbott. i think he has supports people when it suits him _ think he has supports people when it suits him and it is useful and drops than when — suits him and it is useful and drops than when it— suits him and it is useful and drops than when it does not. he supported jeremy— than when it does not. he supported jeremy corbyn twice to beach prime minister— jeremy corbyn twice to beach prime minister with his very strong left—wing views. at the time he supported diane abbott to be home secretary _ supported diane abbott to be home secretary. when he ran for leadership, he wanted to abolish tuition— leadership, he wanted to abolish tuition fees that she did a u—turn on. tuition fees that she did a u-turn on. , , , ., tuition fees that she did a u-turn on. ,, .,, on. there is plenty of conservatives over the past _ on. there is plenty of conservatives over the past five _ on. there is plenty of conservatives over the past five prime _ on. there is plenty of conservatives over the past five prime ministers, | over the past five prime ministers, who have said the people they did not necessarily back for the leadership of the conservative party. it has been a pattern for your colleagues as well. we were a small party. part till a behalf of the labour plp was on the front bench because you need to populate those positions. there is a proper job of opposition. in terms of policy, we are inheriting a huge

mess from the conservative. liz truss's short main through the country into chaos. that means whatever we would have wanted to do four or five years ago, we are having to trim according to the cloth we have available. do you think more _ cloth we have available. do you think more people _ cloth we have available. do you think more people will - cloth we have available. do you think more people will back- cloth we have available. do you i think more people will back labour than the conservatives? we have had a stream of defections. i mentioned lucy allen, who is standing down and promoting reform. suspended as a result. does it look like they are leaving a sinking ship? that result. does it look like they are leaving a sinking ship?— result. does it look like they are leaving a sinking ship? that was the accusation from _ leaving a sinking ship? that was the accusation from quite _ leaving a sinking ship? that was the accusation from quite a _ leaving a sinking ship? that was the accusation from quite a lot - leaving a sinking ship? that was the accusation from quite a lot of - leaving a sinking ship? that was the accusation from quite a lot of mps l accusation from quite a lot of mps deciding to stand down and not fight the election, when you saw how many were leaving politics altogether. it was clear there was a sense of what is coming next, howl was clear there was a sense of what is coming next, how i got the appetite for it? there were people that thought perhaps they were going to try to get otherjobs before there was a mass exodus if the polls

are to be believed. i think there is still time for moore to switch. there are mps who are unhappy. many are still unhappy about the way the election has been called on the way some of their colleagues have left politics not having a moment to say goodbye properly and finish tying up loose ends. there is always that period that has not helped with unity. i'm sure quite a lot of activists are worn out after the local elections are not relishing the fact they have had to go back into another election campaign. what's interesting is that mark logan — what's interesting is that mark logan like natalie elphicke doesn't have anything to gain because he is not going _ have anything to gain because he is not going to stand again. labour does _ not going to stand again. labour does need — not going to stand again. labour does need to appoint a lot of lords to get its— does need to appoint a lot of lords to get its legislation through the next government, i have no prior knowledge — next government, i have no prior knowledge but i know that sue gray will be _ knowledge but i know that sue gray will be looking at peerages. they will be looking at peerages. they will need — will be looking at peerages. they will need to appoint hundreds, probably. will need to appoint hundreds, robabl . �* ., will need to appoint hundreds, robabl . . . ., , ., probably. and there are tears are thins probably. and there are tears are things that _ probably. and there are tears are things that need _ probably. and there are tears are things that need to _ probably. and there are tears are things that need to be _ probably. and there are tears are j things that need to be appointed. probably. and there are tears are l things that need to be appointed. i think that is an interesting thing.

one thing — think that is an interesting thing. one thing to finish off, because there was a yougov poll done on some policies that have been announced by the conservatives and rishi sunak including national service, what we call the pensioner triple dock, and this seems to be significant support for them. this seems to be significant support forthem. but this seems to be significant support for them. but it isn't moving the dial nationally. they seem to like some of the policies that you come up some of the policies that you come up with but they don't like you, not you personally!— you personally! people do like me personally! _ you personally! people do like me personally! look, _ you personally! people do like me personally! look, we _ you personally! people do like me personally! look, we are - you personally! people do like me i personally! look, we are undoubtedly behind in the polls. yes! the poll that matters _ behind in the polls. yes! the poll that matters is _ behind in the polls. yes! the poll that matters is the general election, there are four weeks ago and there are a lot of undecided voters. we are putting popular, bold and clear policies, as you say. i’m and clear policies, as you say. i'm not saying — and clear policies, as you say. i'm not saying it. _ and clear policies, as you say. i'm not saying it, that is what people are suggesting. not saying it, that is what people are suggesting-— not saying it, that is what people are suggesting. labour have not got this. you are suggesting. labour have not got this- you are — are suggesting. labour have not got this. you are going _ are suggesting. labour have not got this. you are going back— are suggesting. labour have not got this. you are going back to - are suggesting. labour have not got this. you are going back to the i this. you are going back to the 19505, this. you are going back to the 1950s, national— this. you are going back to the 1950s, national service, - this. you are going back to the 1950s, national service, that l

this. you are going back to the 1950s, national service, that is this. you are going back to the i 1950s, national service, that is not 19505, national service, that is not a modern — 19505, national service, that is not a modern country. it is 1950s, national service, that is not a modern country.— 1950s, national service, that is not a modern country. it is very popular in sweden- — a modern country. it is very popular in sweden- i— a modern country. it is very popular in sweden. i don't _ a modern country. it is very popular in sweden. i don't think _ a modern country. it is very popular in sweden. i don't think our - a modern country. it is very popular in sweden. i don't think our issues | in sweden. i don't think our issues with the army _ in sweden. i don't think our issues with the army are _ in sweden. i don't think our issues with the army are going _ in sweden. i don't think our issues with the army are going to - in sweden. i don't think our issues with the army are going to be i in sweden. i don't think our issues with the army are going to be sold j with the army are going to be sold with the army are going to be sold with 18—year—olds being recruited for a _ with 18—year—olds being recruited for a year — with 18-year-olds being recruited fora ear. , ., with 18-year-olds being recruited for a ear. , ., , for a year. they get a better life and learn _ for a year. they get a better life and learn lots _ for a year. they get a better life and learn lots of _ for a year. they get a better life and learn lots of things. - for a year. they get a better life and learn lots of things. rather| for a year. they get a better life | and learn lots of things. rather a lot of your _ and learn lots of things. rather a lot of your backbenchers - and learn lots of things. rather a lot of your backbenchers are i and learn lots of things. rather a lot of your backbenchers are very against _ lot of your backbenchers are very against it — lot of your backbenchers are very against it are not campaigning for it. ~ against it are not campaigning for it. . .. . against it are not campaigning for it. . . , against it are not campaigning for it. ~ . , ., against it are not campaigning for it. we will catch up with a campaign in scotland. — it. we will catch up with a campaign in scotland, particularly _ it. we will catch up with a campaign in scotland, particularly the - it. we will catch up with a campaign in scotland, particularly the snp. i in scotland, particularly the snp. john swinney, the snp first minister, has only been in thejob john swinney, the snp first minister, has only been in the job a short while, a few weeks and now been thrust into an election campaign. he has been campaigning on theissue campaign. he has been campaigning on the issue of the economy. let's talk to drew henry, snp mp, no longer an mp, of course. we have given everyone the opportunity to give a 32nd pitch for your party. richard thompson was on last week and i forgot, so, drew, it is over to you forgot, so, drew, it is over to you for the 32nd pitch. the forgot, so, drew, it is over to you for the 32nd pitch.— forgot, so, drew, it is over to you for the 32nd pitch. the snp wants to stand u- for the 32nd pitch. the snp wants to stand up for — for the 32nd pitch. the snp wants to stand up for values _ for the 32nd pitch. the snp wants to stand up for values in _ for the 32nd pitch. the snp wants to stand up for values in scotland, i

for the 32nd pitch. the snp wants to stand up for values in scotland, we | stand up for values in scotland, we want to eliminate child poverty, we have a scottish child payment which has lifted 100,000 people out of poverty. we want to see real movement on the just transition, that protects jobs and makes sure we can tackle climate change and keep the good work we have got on that going. and we want to make sure that we grow the economy in scotland so we grow the economy in scotland so we continue to do the good work in terms of having the highest growth per person in the uk. m]! terms of having the highest growth per person in the uk.— terms of having the highest growth per person in the uk.- all| per person in the uk. all right. all of those things. .. _ per person in the uk. all right. all of those things. .. well _ per person in the uk. all right. all of those things. .. well done, i per person in the uk. all right. all of those things. .. well done, you | of those things. .. well done, you almost stopped _ of those things. .. well done, you almost stopped in _ of those things. .. well done, you almost stopped in 30 _ of those things. .. well done, you almost stopped in 30 seconds! i of those things. .. well done, you | almost stopped in 30 seconds! i'm sure you have given a warm welcome to keir starmer in scotland, talking about his plan for a plan for a great british energy company, headquartered in scotland, bringing a huge number of skilled jobs to scotland and driving the transition to skilled energy, he says. what is not to like? i to skilled energy, he says. what is not to like?— not to like? i don't think it is clear what — not to like? i don't think it is clear what it _ not to like? i don't think it is clear what it is. _ not to like? i don't think it is clear what it is. he - not to like? i don't think it is clear what it is. he has i not to like? i don't think it is

clear what it is. he has been j not to like? i don't think it is i clear what it is. he has been on not to like? i don't think it is - clear what it is. he has been on the bbc this morning, unlike anas sarwar who said this would be an energy generating company, saying that it is not going to be an energy company, it is an investment vehicle, and that investment vehicle will be targeting private investment. so it sounds a bit like something that has been tried before. you will remember the green energy bank which was sold off to private interests. maybe he is trying to have a bit of recycling here. it doesn't sound like he is putting forward an energy company. do you want to illuminate, meg hillier? ., do you want to illuminate, meg hillier? . , ., hillier? the aim is that it will, i auree hillier? the aim is that it will, i agree with _ hillier? the aim is that it will, i agree with the _ hillier? the aim is that it will, i agree with the green _ hillier? the aim is that it will, i l agree with the green investment bankw — agree with the green investment bank,... labourwill want to agree with the green investment bank,... labour will want to see some _ bank,... labour will want to see some of— bank,... labour will want to see some of this _ bank,... labour will want to see some of this is cooperatively owned and those _ some of this is cooperatively owned and those who can benefit from that. i have _ and those who can benefit from that. i have seen _ and those who can benefit from that. i have seen some great co—op is

around — i have seen some great co—op is around the — i have seen some great co—op is around the country. i'm trying to explain — around the country. i'm trying to explain in — around the country. i'm trying to explain in short order, it is difficult _ explain in short order, it is difficult to not go into detail. there — difficult to not go into detail. there is— difficult to not go into detail. there is ambition to do that. there is an— there is ambition to do that. there is an awful— there is ambition to do that. there is an awful lot of private money willing — is an awful lot of private money willing and keen to invest in green energy. we — willing and keen to invest in green energy, we need to get this off the ground _ energy, we need to get this off the ground to — energy, we need to get this off the ground to get off being reliant on the high — ground to get off being reliant on the high cost of energy provided as we have _ the high cost of energy provided as we have seen in the war in ukraine from— we have seen in the war in ukraine from elsewhere. it's making us self—reliant and reducing bills and those _ self—reliant and reducing bills and those are — self—reliant and reducing bills and those are the key messages about this stop _ those are the key messages about this stop it— those are the key messages about this stop it will be taking a while to ramp — this stop it will be taking a while to ramp up to it but it will be huge benefit _ to ramp up to it but it will be huge benefit 0t— to ramp up to it but it will be huge benefit. .., , to ramp up to it but it will be huge benefit. _, , ., benefit. of course what we needed was what the _ benefit. of course what we needed was what the labour _ benefit. of course what we needed was what the labour party - benefit. of course what we needed l was what the labour party originally promised and what their advisers said was absolutely needed for the uk, which was a £28 billion a year investment injust uk, which was a £28 billion a year investment in just transition but there was a massive u—turn and betrayal of that promise. and that was what was required. what we have now is money being taken away, to propose that, to be used for nuclear power stations in england. let

propose that, to be used for nuclear power stations in england.- power stations in england. let meg resond. it power stations in england. let meg respond. it will— power stations in england. let meg respond. it will risk _ power stations in england. let meg respond. it will risk jobs _ power stations in england. let meg respond. it will risk jobs rather i respond. it will risk 'obs rather than eeat h respond. it will risk 'obs rather than create them. _ respond. it will risk jobs rather than create them. 100,000 i respond. it will risk jobs rather i than create them. 100,000 jobs respond. it will risk jobs rather - than create them. 100,000 jobs could go according to independent research. l go according to independent research. , , go according to independent research. ,, , ., , research. i spent nine years chairint research. i spent nine years chairing the _ research. i spent nine years chairing the public - research. i spent nine years chairing the public accounts committee in the uk parliament and i know how— committee in the uk parliament and i know how to look at funding energy. that 28 billion was right, we could not have _ that 28 billion was right, we could not have spent it in the first year, it was_ not have spent it in the first year, it was right — not have spent it in the first year, it was right to revisit that because we could — it was right to revisit that because we could have spent it but not well. you need _ we could have spent it but not well. you need a — we could have spent it but not well. you need a plan for what you want to -et you need a plan for what you want to get out _ you need a plan for what you want to get out of _ you need a plan for what you want to get out of it — you need a plan for what you want to get out of it and match the money to it. get out of it and match the money to it it's _ get out of it and match the money to it it's quite — get out of it and match the money to it. it's quite right that rachel reeves — it. it's quite right that rachel reeves says we need to trim what we spend _ reeves says we need to trim what we spend according to what is available so making _ spend according to what is available so making sure we get the outcomes and we _ so making sure we get the outcomes and we make sure that the money follows _ and we make sure that the money follows to — and we make sure that the money follows to deliver those outcomes but setting up an arbitrary figure was something, our ambition at the time but _ was something, our ambition at the time but when you look at the books, you realise _ time but when you look at the books, you realise that there is a better way of _ you realise that there is a better way of doing it. i was quite pleased when we _ way of doing it. i was quite pleased when we dropped that because i think it when we dropped that because i think il was— when we dropped that because i think il was much— when we dropped that because i think it was much more realistic and honest. — it was much more realistic and honest, and this government has promised — honest, and this government has promised lots on green energy and not done _ promised lots on green energy and not done anything at all. | promised lots on green energy and not done anything at all.— not done anything at all. i want to show ou not done anything at all. i want to show you this _

not done anything at all. i want to show you this headline _ not done anything at all. i want to show you this headline from - not done anything at all. i want to show you this headline from the l show you this headline from the guardian in 2017. well, isn't that what you were offering then, why you disagree with it now? {lit what you were offering then, why you disagree with it now?— disagree with it now? of course, we have looked — disagree with it now? of course, we have looked at _ disagree with it now? of course, we have looked at that _ disagree with it now? of course, we have looked at that and _ disagree with it now? of course, we have looked at that and it _ disagree with it now? of course, we have looked at that and it was - disagree with it now? of course, we have looked at that and it was seen | have looked at that and it was seen to be not possible to take forward at the time. the fact that the labour party are proposing something very similarjust now, in fact not very similarjust now, in fact not very similarjust now, in fact not very similar because they are not proposing for it to be energy generation... is proposing for it to be energy generation. . ._ proposing for it to be energy generation... is it or is it not similar? _ generation... is it or is it not similar? clearly _ generation... is it or is it not similar? clearly not - generation... is it or is it not similar? clearly not because | generation... is it or is it not i similar? clearly not because sir keir starmer _ similar? clearly not because sir keir starmer said _ similar? clearly not because sir keir starmer said this _ similar? clearly not because sir keir starmer said this morning | similar? clearly not because sir - keir starmer said this morning that it is an investment vehicle and not an energy producing entity at all. what we have here is quite simply another thing being wedded to austerity like the tories from the labour party, a failure to infest, they already know that the institute for fiscal studies have pointed out there is a £19 billion black hole that they have said there is a

conspiracy of silence over telling which is going to affect public services. they are going to continue with austerity, they are not going to invest in the just transition, they will keep things like the two child cap... let they will keep things like the two child cap- - -_ they will keep things like the two childcat... ~ child cap... let meg respond, if you made the accusation _ child cap... let meg respond, if you made the accusation that _ child cap... let meg respond, if you made the accusation that labour - child cap... let meg respond, if you| made the accusation that labour are going to carry on austerity... following the fiscal rules... the same fiscal rules. following the fiscal rules. .. the same fiscal rules.— following the fiscal rules... the same fiscal rules. money doesn't trow same fiscal rules. money doesn't . row on same fiscal rules. money doesn't grow on trees- — same fiscal rules. money doesn't grow on trees. rachel _ same fiscal rules. money doesn't grow on trees. rachel reeves . same fiscal rules. money doesn't| grow on trees. rachel reeves has same fiscal rules. money doesn't i grow on trees. rachel reeves has a clear— grow on trees. rachel reeves has a clear plan— grow on trees. rachel reeves has a clear plan to grow the economy and -et clear plan to grow the economy and gel income — clear plan to grow the economy and get income in that way. we cannot promise _ get income in that way. we cannot promise what we cannot deliver. i'm very clear. _ promise what we cannot deliver. i'm very clear. i— promise what we cannot deliver. i'm very clear, i have spent a decade on the public— very clear, i have spent a decade on the public accounts committee looking — the public accounts committee looking at failures of government delivery— looking at failures of government delivery so it's important that we have _ delivery so it's important that we have plans — delivery so it's important that we have plans in place looking at making — have plans in place looking at making sure that what we promise the electorate _ making sure that what we promise the electorate is deliverable. we can promise — electorate is deliverable. we can promise the earth but the british public— promise the earth but the british public are — promise the earth but the british public are not fools, they know a cheap _ public are not fools, they know a cheap political promise when they see it _ cheap political promise when they see it and — cheap political promise when they see it and we are trying to avoid that it — see it and we are trying to avoid that. it doesn't really matter who owns _ that. it doesn't really matter who owns the — that. it doesn't really matter who owns the energy, particularly. the point _ owns the energy, particularly. the point is _ owns the energy, particularly. the point is it— owns the energy, particularly. the point is it is— owns the energy, particularly. the point is it is owned by the public, the public— point is it is owned by the public,

the public will have a say in it and own the _ the public will have a say in it and own the companies responsible for it even if— own the companies responsible for it even if they— own the companies responsible for it even if they are not in the generation. we could be bringing in lots of— generation. we could be bringing in lots of ttits— generation. we could be bringing in lots of bits of the system which could _ lots of bits of the system which could be — lots of bits of the system which could be part of great british energv _ could be part of great british energy. let's start early days and see where — energy. let's start early days and see where it goes. do energy. let's start early days and see where it goes.— energy. let's start early days and see where it goes. do you like the idea of gb — see where it goes. do you like the idea of gb energy, _ see where it goes. do you like the idea of gb energy, mel— see where it goes. do you like the idea of gb energy, mel stride? i l idea of gb energy, mel stride? i don't and one of the things you don't _ don't and one of the things you don't like. _ don't and one of the things you don't like, it's— don't and one of the things you don't like, it's one _ don't and one of the things you don't like, it's one of— don't and one of the things you don't like, it's one of those - don't and one of the things you i don't like, it's one of those things you cannot — don't like, it's one of those things you cannot deliver, _ don't like, it's one of those things you cannot deliver, that's - don't like, it's one of those things you cannot deliver, that's the i don't like, it's one of those things. you cannot deliver, that's the whole point _ you cannot deliver, that's the whole point labour— you cannot deliver, that's the whole point. labour have _ you cannot deliver, that's the whole point. labour have come _ you cannot deliver, that's the whole point. labour have come forward i you cannot deliver, that's the whole i point. labour have come forward with 585— point. labour have come forward with £385 billion — point. labour have come forward with £385 billion of— point. labour have come forward with £385 billion of unfunded _ point. labour have come forward with £385 billion of unfunded spending. l £38.5 billion of unfunded spending. you have _ £38.5 billion of unfunded spending. you have come _ £38.5 billion of unfunded spending. you have come up— £38.5 billion of unfunded spending. you have come up with _ £38.5 billion of unfunded spending. you have come up with some - £38.5 billion of unfunded spending. you have come up with some as i £38.5 billion of unfunded spending. l you have come up with some as well. i will you have come up with some as well. t will deal— you have come up with some as well. i will deal with that. the difference _ i will deal with that. the difference with- i will deal with that. the difference with these i i will deal with that. the i difference with these black i will deal with that. the - difference with these black holes is, the _ difference with these black holes is, the official— difference with these black holes is, the official treasury— difference with these black holes is, the official treasury figures i is, the official treasury figures have _ is, the official treasury figures have underpinned _ is, the official treasury figures have underpinned this - is, the official treasury figures have underpinned this figure l is, the official treasury figuresl have underpinned this figure of is, the official treasury figures i have underpinned this figure of 38.5 billion _ have underpinned this figure of 38.5 billion what — have underpinned this figure of 38.5 billion. what labour— have underpinned this figure of 38.5 billion. what labour have _ have underpinned this figure of 38.5 billion. what labour have done i have underpinned this figure of 38.5 billion. what labour have done is. billion. what labour have done is ruled _ billion. what labour have done is ruled out— billion. what labour have done is ruled out increases— billion. what labour have done is ruled out increases in— billion. what labour have done is ruled out increases in some i billion. what labour have done is ruled out increases in some of. billion. what labour have done isl ruled out increases in some of the bil ruled out increases in some of the big taxes — ruled out increases in some of the big taxes trig— ruled out increases in some of the bit taxes. g , ., .,, ., ruled out increases in some of the bittaxes. g , ., ., j big taxes. my question was on gb enert , big taxes. my question was on gb energy. why _ big taxes. my question was on gb energy. why don't _ big taxes. my question was on gb energy, why don't you _ big taxes. my question was on gb energy, why don't you like i big taxes. my question was on gb energy, why don't you like it? it | energy, why don't you like it? it adds to this 38 billion. they i energy, why don't you like it? it adds to this 38 billion. they say | energy, why don't you like it? it i adds to this 38 billion. they say it will reduce _ adds to this 38 billion. they say it will reduce bill. _ adds to this 38 billion. they say it will reduce bill. it— adds to this 38 billion. they say it will reduce bill. it may _ adds to this 38 billion. they say it will reduce bill. it may or- adds to this 38 billion. they say it will reduce bill. it may or may i adds to this 38 billion. they say itj will reduce bill. it may or may not sto- what will reduce bill. it may or may not stop what you _ will reduce bill. it may or may not stop what you think _ will reduce bill. it may or may not stop what you think it _ will reduce bill. it may or may not stop what you think it might? i will reduce bill. it may or may not stop what you think it might? my| stop what you think it might? my point _ stop what you think it might? my point is, —

stop what you think it might? my point is. you _ stop what you think it might? my point is, you have _ stop what you think it might? my point is, you have unfunded i stop what you think it might? my point is, you have unfunded tax i point is, you have unfunded tax cuts, _ point is, you have unfunded tax cuts, a — point is, you have unfunded tax cuts, a labour— point is, you have unfunded tax cuts, a labour party— point is, you have unfunded tax cuts, a labour party ruled i point is, you have unfunded tax cuts, a labour party ruled out i cuts, a labour party ruled out raising — cuts, a labour party ruled out raising taxes _ cuts, a labour party ruled out raising taxes in— cuts, a labour party ruled out raising taxes in the _ cuts, a labour party ruled out raising taxes in the four- cuts, a labour party ruled out i raising taxes in the four luggage struck— raising taxes in the four luggage struck a — raising taxes in the four luggage struck a larger— raising taxes in the four luggage struck a larger taxes, _ raising taxes in the four luggage struck a larger taxes, what i raising taxes in the four luggage struck a larger taxes, what are i raising taxes in the four luggage i struck a larger taxes, what are they going _ struck a larger taxes, what are they going to _ struck a larger taxes, what are they going to be — struck a larger taxes, what are they going to be taxing _ struck a larger taxes, what are they going to be taxing in— struck a larger taxes, what are they going to be taxing in order- struck a larger taxes, what are they going to be taxing in order to- struck a larger taxes, what are they going to be taxing in order to pay. going to be taxing in order to pay for it— going to be taxing in order to pay for it because _ going to be taxing in order to pay for it because otherwise - going to be taxing in order to pay for it because otherwise the i going to be taxing in order to payl for it because otherwise the sums don't _ for it because otherwise the sums don't add — for it because otherwise the sums don't add up _ for it because otherwise the sums don't add up i— for it because otherwise the sums don't add unm— for it because otherwise the sums don't add up. i don't want to press the point. — don't add up. i don't want to press the point. you _ don't add up. i don't want to press the point, you can _ don't add up. i don't want to press the point, you can only— don't add up. i don't want to press the point, you can only promise i don't add up. i don't want to press i the point, you can only promise what you can deliver, you have promised to stop the boats and bring down let migration, promise to reduce taxes, you have made these cuts to national insurance... i you have made these cuts to national insurance---— insurance... i thought we were talkin: insurance... i thought we were talking about _ insurance... i thought we were talking about gb _ insurance... i thought we were talking about gb energy! - insurance... i thought we were talking about gb energy! thatl insurance... i thought we were i talking about gb energy! that was insurance... i thought we were - talking about gb energy! that was my initial question _ talking about gb energy! that was my initial question but _ talking about gb energy! that was my initial question but he _ talking about gb energy! that was my initial question but he went _ talking about gb energy! that was my initial question but he went on - talking about gb energy! that was my initial question but he went on to i initial question but he went on to the broader economy in terms of what is promised. you mention to tax rises or spending cuts which is what the institute for fiscal studies said. i'm interested, drew hendry, the emergency budget that the first minister is suggesting, he wants an emergency budget within days i think of the election results, keir starmer or rishi sunak, so, why an emergency budget then?— starmer or rishi sunak, so, why an emergency budget then? because we cannot no emergency budget then? because we cannot go on — emergency budget then? because we cannot go on with _

emergency budget then? because we cannot go on with the _ emergency budget then? because we cannot go on with the austerity i emergency budget then? because we cannot go on with the austerity that l cannot go on with the austerity that we have had for the past ia years. it has ground things down for people, it has caused untold misery and difficulty with household budget and difficulty with household budget and the labour party are proposing almost exactly the same following the same fiscal rules. you almost exactly the same following the same fiscal rules.— the same fiscal rules. you would like to see _ the same fiscal rules. you would like to see an _ the same fiscal rules. you would like to see an emergency - the same fiscal rules. you wouldi like to see an emergency budget the same fiscal rules. you would i like to see an emergency budget with tax rises? you like to see an emergency budget with tax rises? ., ., ~' like to see an emergency budget with tax rises? ., ., ~ ., , tax rises? you we would like to see an emergency _ tax rises? you we would like to see an emergency budget _ tax rises? you we would like to see an emergency budget which - tax rises? you we would like to see an emergency budget which looks l tax rises? you we would like to see | an emergency budget which looks to invest in public services so you can grow the economy in the way it needs to be done. it's madness to continue with austerity and continue to think that you can get a different result by imposing austerity whether it is tory austerity or a labour austerity. it'sjust tory austerity or a labour austerity. it's just madness to continue that. the uk need to increase productivity, it needs products —— proper growth and you cannot do that without investment. and both of their plans are not helping. and both of their plans are not helinu. ., ., , ., ~ and both of their plans are not helinu. ., . , ., ~ _, and both of their plans are not heluin. ., . , . helping. you are shaking your head, 10. the helping. you are shaking your head, jo- the point — helping. you are shaking your head, jo- the point is _ helping. you are shaking your head, 10. the point is the _ helping. you are shaking your head, 10. the point is the investment i helping. you are shaking your head, 10. the point is the investment is i 10. the point is the investment is exactly what _ 10. the point is the investment is exactly what labour _ 10. the point is the investment is exactly what labour are - 10. the point is the investment is l exactly what labour are proposing, they are _ exactly what labour are proposing, they are saying, there have been reports _ they are saying, there have been reports written about how the system

puts off _ reports written about how the system puts off investment and what they are saying — puts off investment and what they are saying is, we will take a punt. 0n different types of energy, back it, 0n different types of energy, back it. see _ 0n different types of energy, back it. see if— 0n different types of energy, back it. see if it— 0n different types of energy, back it, see if it works. it's risky, but it's hoid~ — it, see if it works. it's risky, but it's hoid~ and _ it, see if it works. it's risky, but it's bold. and if they are trying to do something. the idea of an emergency budget, a great idea but at least, _ emergency budget, a great idea but at least, you know, if you move into at least, you know, if you move into a house. _ at least, you know, if you move into a house. you — at least, you know, if you move into a house, you don't arrange for the builders _ a house, you don't arrange for the builders or— a house, you don't arrange for the builders or the electricians to turn up builders or the electricians to turn up on _ builders or the electricians to turn up on day— builders or the electricians to turn up on day one to go and fix stuff, you don't— up on day one to go and fix stuff, you don't even know what is there. give them — you don't even know what is there. give them a — you don't even know what is there. give them a chance to get in and find out — give them a chance to get in and find out what is going on. it would be a find out what is going on. it would he a stupid — find out what is going on. it would be a stupid pointless budget which would _ be a stupid pointless budget which would not deliver anything if you do it at early — would not deliver anything if you do it at early. you have got to give people — it at early. you have got to give people time to get into the figures and work— people time to get into the figures and work at their plans.— and work at their plans. rachel reeves does _ and work at their plans. rachel reeves does not _ and work at their plans. rachel reeves does not want - and work at their plans. rachel reeves does not want to i and work at their plans. rachel reeves does not want to do i and work at their plans. rachel reeves does not want to do a l and work at their plans. rachel - reeves does not want to do a gimmick budget, she wants a spending review and a proper budget which will be impacting every department. she is a responsible chancellor. i just impacting every department. she is a responsible chancellor.— responsible chancellor. i 'ust want to net responsible chancellor. i 'ust want to get before i responsible chancellor. i 'ust want to get before the i responsible chancellor. i 'ust want to get before the end i responsible chancellor. i 'ust want to get before the end ofi responsible chancellor. ijust want to get before the end of the i

to get before the end of the programme, the emergency budget might remind people of liz truss and kwasi kwarteng, which was not looked over by the office for budget responsibility. i willjust get ailbhe and get back to drew. iterate responsibility. i willjust get ailbhe and get back to drew. we saw how badly that _ ailbhe and get back to drew. we saw how badly that went, _ ailbhe and get back to drew. we saw how badly that went, reporting i ailbhe and get back to drew. we saw how badly that went, reporting on i how badly that went, reporting on that at the time, working in secret over the summer on budget isn't a bad —— is a bad idea. drew is right that there is a conspiracy of silence between the parties on this. whoever wins the election will have to put up taxes. you whoever wins the election will have to put up taxes— to put up taxes. you have ten seconds- — to put up taxes. you have ten seconds. we _ to put up taxes. you have ten seconds. we have _ to put up taxes. you have ten seconds. we have got - to put up taxes. you have ten seconds. we have got to i to put up taxes. you have ten seconds. we have got to put| to put up taxes. you have ten i seconds. we have got to put up -- find out the _ seconds. we have got to put up -- find out the impact _ seconds. we have got to put up -- find out the impact on _ seconds. we have got to put up -- find out the impact on black- seconds. we have got to put up -- find out the impact on black -- i find out the impact on black —— public— find out the impact on black —— public services. the backon needs to be public services. the backon needs to he -- _ public services. the backon needs to he -- black— public services. the backon needs to be —— black hole needs to be addressed, so we need an emergency budget _ addressed, so we need an emergency budaet. . ., addressed, so we need an emergency budaet. ., ~ i. ., ., addressed, so we need an emergency budaet. . ~' ., ., ., , budget. thank you to all of my cuests, budget. thank you to all of my guests, goodbye! _

today at one: donald trump says he will appeal, after the historic guilty verdicts in his trial forfalsifying business records. the former us president tells supporters he didn't

get a fair trial. this was a rigged, disgraceful trial. the real verdict is going to be november 5th, by the people. lam i am live outside trump tower, where donald trump will give his first news conference since becoming a convicted felon. a new cancer treatment — the first people take part in trials of a vaccine designed to stop the disease coming back. if its successful, then it's a medical breakthrough. another russian strike on ukraine's second city kharkiv leaves at least five people dead. and special treatment for the first hippo born in the uk for seven years. and coming up on bbc news, real madrid have arrived in the uk ahead of tomorrow's champions league final against borussia dortmund

at wembley, where there are new security measures in place.