legislation to rewrite equalities legislation to protect women only spaces, but what does that mean? also: keir starmertries does that mean? also: keir starmer tries to put the focus on defence and security. this labour party is totally committed to the defence and security— committed to the defence and security of our nation, to our armed forces, _ security of our nation, to our armed forces, and — security of our nation, to our armed forces, and importantly, to our nuclear— forces, and importantly, to our nuclear deterrent. meanwhile, diane abbott says she will run as a labour candidate. will it draw a line under the row? the last election was all about brexit. why aren't the party is talking about at this time? and tv debates kick off this week. will they change anything? joining us today are the business secretary and equalities minister kemi badenoch, shadow secretary of state for health and social care wes streeting, kate andrews of the spectator, an author and former labour adviser tom baldwin. this is politics live: election 202a.

welcome to viewers on bbc two, bbc iplayer and bbc news. let's start with this headline which you also heard at the top of the programme. bbc announces dates for election tv debates. yes, the first programme is this friday evening, seven parties having been invited. there is a question time debate later with the largest four parties, and a head—to—head debate between the prime minister and labour leader keir starmer onjune 26. as well as the bbc election debates, stv are also holding a televised debate in scotland this evening, and itv are hosting the first head—to—head debate between rishi sunak and keir starmer tomorrow. that was exhausting. let's start with this opening question, kemi badenoch, will they change anything? debates can chance will they change anything? debates can change things. _ will they change anything? debates can change things. i _ will they change anything? debates can change things. i remember- will they change anything? debates. can change things. i remember when will they change anything? debates i can change things. i remember when i first stood as a candidate back in

2010, i agree with nick debates, that change the dynamic of that election. it is a format that will be better for rishi election. it is a format that will be betterfor rishi sunak in particular. when you look at p.m. queues, it is a bit of argy—bargy and the nature of the short short answers means it can look a punch and judy but in a proper debate, there is no mps and judy but in a proper debate, there is no mp5 on the sidelines making jokes. we will see a side of the prime minister that we haven't seen. ~ , ~ . the prime minister that we haven't seen. ~ , . ., ., , seen. will they change anything, wes? we will — seen. will they change anything, wes? we will find _ seen. will they change anything, wes? we will find out. _ seen. will they change anything, wes? we will find out. the - wes? we will find out. the usefulness _ wes? we will find out. the usefulness of _ wes? we will find out. the usefulness of the - wes? we will find out. the usefulness of the debates l wes? we will find out. the | usefulness of the debates is wes? we will find out. the i usefulness of the debates is it wes? we will find out. the - usefulness of the debates is it does confront_ usefulness of the debates is it does confront voters with the choice. the choice _ confront voters with the choice. the choice at _ confront voters with the choice. the choice at this election is do people want _ choice at this election is do people want to— choice at this election is do people want to give the matches back to the harshness _ want to give the matches back to the harshness or look to the firefighters in the labour party? rishi _ firefighters in the labour party? rishi sunak is probably glad to be away— rishi sunak is probably glad to be away from — rishi sunak is probably glad to be away from prime minister's questions because _ away from prime minister's questions because when you look at the miserable faces sat behind him, it is a reminderthat

miserable faces sat behind him, it is a reminder that he miserable faces sat behind him, it is a reminderthat he is, this miserable faces sat behind him, it is a reminder that he is, this is liz truss's_ is a reminder that he is, this is liz truss's conservative party, he is just _ liz truss's conservative party, he is just living — liz truss's conservative party, he isjust living in it rather than needing _ isjust living in it rather than needing it. with keir starmer you have _ needing it. with keir starmer you have a _ needing it. with keir starmer you have a change labour party that is able to _ have a change labour party that is able to offer the change in our country— able to offer the change in our country needs. the able to offer the change in our country needs.— able to offer the change in our country needs. the reason i am askinu country needs. the reason i am asking this _ country needs. the reason i am asking this question _ country needs. the reason i am asking this question is - country needs. the reason i am asking this question is because| country needs. the reason i am i asking this question is because the poll so far in this campaign have not really changed. if we show you the poll tracker, it says general election voting intention and the conservatives have been behind labour by about 20 points or so for quite some time. again, do you think the debates will change anything? they could. we will see. rishi sunak will want _ they could. we will see. rishi sunak will want every — they could. we will see. rishi sunak will want every opportunity - they could. we will see. rishi sunak will want every opportunity to - they could. we will see. rishi sunak will want every opportunity to close i will want every opportunity to close the gen _ will want every opportunity to close the gen keir— will want every opportunity to close the gap. keir starmer— will want every opportunity to close the gap. keir starmerwill- will want every opportunity to close the gap. keir starmer will want- will want every opportunity to close the gap. keir starmer will want to i the gap. keir starmer will want to speak— the gap. keir starmer will want to speak to — the gap. keir starmer will want to speak to voters _ the gap. keir starmer will want to speak to voters. this _ the gap. keir starmer will want to speak to voters. this is _ the gap. keir starmer will want to speak to voters. this is really i the gap. keir starmer will want to speak to voters. this is really an i speak to voters. this is really an american — speak to voters. this is really an american import, _ speak to voters. this is really an american import, these - speak to voters. this is really an american import, these tv i speak to voters. this is really an i american import, these tv debates and we _ american import, these tv debates and we only— american import, these tv debates and we only lend _ american import, these tv debates and we only tend to _ american import, these tv debates and we only tend to have _ american import, these tv debates and we only tend to have three. i american import, these tv debates and we only tend to have three. six is reall and we only tend to have three.

is really quite something. and we only tend to have three. six is really quite something. debatesl is really quite something. debates matter more _ is really quite something. debates matter more to _ is really quite something. debates matter more to the _ is really quite something. debates matter more to the party - is really quite something. debates matter more to the party losing i is really quite something. debates i matter more to the party losing than the one winning. i suspect we might get after the first debate, sue knight will perform better than expected —— sunak. the truth is however anything less than a knockout blow i think is a win for starmer and starmer�*s approach to this, having spoken to him last week, will be no drama starmer. you don't need to look for a haymaker, you don't need to change the narrative, you just need to keep it calm and measured and that is what he will do. ., , calm and measured and that is what he will do. . , ., ., ., he will do. that is the head-to-head debate. he will do. that is the head-to-head debate- the — he will do. that is the head-to-head debate. the debate _ he will do. that is the head-to-head debate. the debate on _ he will do. that is the head-to-head debate. the debate on friday - he will do. that is the head-to-head debate. the debate on friday this i debate. the debate on friday this with seven parties and it is the party is invited to take part. usually the party leaders are the ones who come forward but not necessarily. kemi badenoch, should it be rishi sunak who takes part on

friday? j it be rishi sunak who takes part on frida ? ., �* , it be rishi sunak who takes part on frida ? . �* , ., ., friday? i haven't seen the format for friday- _ friday? i haven't seen the format for friday. that _ friday? i haven't seen the format for friday. that will _ friday? i haven't seen the format for friday. that will be _ friday? i haven't seen the format for friday. that will be a - friday? i haven't seen the format for friday. that will be a matter l for friday. that will be a matter for friday. that will be a matter for him, we are a broad team, it may be that someone else might be best placed. the prime minister is doing a lot of campaigning so i don't know what is planned.— a lot of campaigning so i don't know what is planned._ i l what is planned. could it be you? i am very happy _ what is planned. could it be you? i am very happy to _ what is planned. could it be you? i am very happy to take _ what is planned. could it be you? i am very happy to take part - what is planned. could it be you? i am very happy to take part in i am very happy to take part in debates but obviously it all has to fit in with a busy schedule. they key thing is people get to hear what the author is an wes has given a scripted blah, blah, blah, i have read these lines everywhere. the truth is actually what we are going to see is the offer, which you do describe, whether it is the status quo and continuity with the party that has a plan or change for the worse. that is what you will see during the debates.— during the debates. should keir starmer take _ during the debates. should keir starmer take part _ during the debates. should keir starmer take part in _ during the debates. should keir starmer take part in the - during the debates. should keir starmer take part in the one i during the debates. should keirl starmer take part in the one plus seven debate? again, could it be

you? j seven debate? again, could it be ou? ., , , ., ., you? i would be up for it. i love this sort of— you? i would be up for it. i love this sort of format. _ you? i would be up for it. i love this sort of format. there i you? i would be up for it. i love this sort of format. there is i you? i would be up for it. i love this sort of format. there is an | this sort of format. there is an offer— this sort of format. there is an offer to— this sort of format. there is an offer to the _ this sort of format. there is an offer to the press team. we are seeinu offer to the press team. we are seeing pictures _ offer to the press team. we are seeing pictures there _ offer to the press team. we are seeing pictures there of - offer to the press team. we are seeing pictures there of the i offer to the press team. we are l seeing pictures there of the 2091. offer to the press team. we are i seeing pictures there of the 2091. i remember from the last election, there _ remember from the last election, there you — remember from the last election, there you can see rishi sunak being there you can see rishi sunak being the conservative spokesperson last time _ the conservative spokesperson last time the _ the conservative spokesperson last time. the advantage of the head—to—head with keir starmer and rishi sunak— head—to—head with keir starmer and rishi sunak are these are the candidates for prime minister. that multiparty— candidates for prime minister. that multiparty debate, and i say that with respect, they have a right to make _ with respect, they have a right to make their— with respect, they have a right to make their case, they are not candidates for prime minister and so therefore. _ candidates for prime minister and so therefore. i— candidates for prime minister and so therefore, i would candidates for prime minister and so therefore, iwould be candidates for prime minister and so therefore, i would be comfortable whether— therefore, i would be comfortable whether it is our saudi conservatives with the two main party _ conservatives with the two main party is — conservatives with the two main party is fielding different members. you have _ party is fielding different members. you have rachel reeves as shadow chancellor, you have a whole shadow cabinet _ chancellor, you have a whole shadow cabinet of _ chancellor, you have a whole shadow cabinet of people we feel confident butting _ cabinet of people we feel confident putting forward to the country as an

alternative — putting forward to the country as an alternative cabinet. there is an advantage of showing it is notjust advantage of showing it is notjust a keir— advantage of showing it is notjust a keir starmerwho advantage of showing it is notjust a keir starmer who has change the labour— a keir starmer who has change the labour party, there is a changed team _ labour party, there is a changed team able — labour party, there is a changed team able to offer change. has it been a bit _ team able to offer change. has it been a bit too _ team able to offer change. has it been a bit too presidential i team able to offer change. has it been a bit too presidential with l been a bit too presidential with rishi sunak standing alone rather than the team that keir starmer has been fielding, or is that his strength?— been fielding, or is that his strenuth? , ., , strength? the first thing we did was a cam rally that _ strength? the first thing we did was a cam rally that had _ strength? the first thing we did was a cam rally that had the _ strength? the first thing we did was a cam rally that had the whole i a cam rally that had the whole cabinet behind him. this is also a snap election we have been also helping other candidates, so you will see more the cabinet. we are still doing our dayjobs, i am still secretary of business and trade, there is still that going on behind—the—scenes. there is still that going on behind-the-scenes.- there is still that going on behind-the-scenes. ., ., �* , behind-the-scenes. you haven't been ke -t under behind-the-scenes. you haven't been kept under wraps? _ behind-the-scenes. you haven't been kept under wraps? no, _ behind-the-scenes. you haven't been kept under wraps? no, this _ behind-the-scenes. you haven't been kept under wraps? no, this is - behind-the-scenes. you haven't been kept under wraps? no, this is media i kept under wraps? no, this is media aossi -. we kept under wraps? no, this is media gossip- we still— kept under wraps? no, this is media gossip. we still have _ kept under wraps? no, this is media gossip. we still have a _ kept under wraps? no, this is media gossip. we still have a lot _ kept under wraps? no, this is media gossip. we still have a lot of- kept under wraps? no, this is media gossip. we still have a lot of day i gossip. we still have a lot of day jobs to do. wes, like i am, are no longer mps so we are free to go out

and campaign. we longer mps so we are free to go out and campaign-— longer mps so we are free to go out and campaign. we have mainly seen the cabinet campaigning _ and campaign. we have mainly seen the cabinet campaigning for- and campaign. we have mainly seen the cabinet campaigning for each i the cabinet campaigning for each other— the cabinet campaigning for each other because they are quite vulnerable at this election. it is because we _ vulnerable at this election. it is because we are _ vulnerable at this election. it 3 because we are friends and we support each other. we don't have theissues support each other. we don't have the issues that you have, like with diane abbott... brute the issues that you have, like with diane abbott. . ._ diane abbott... we will get onto that. i diane abbott... we will get onto that- i don't _ diane abbott. .. we will get onto that. l don't think— diane abbott... we will get onto that. i don't think you _ diane abbott... we will get onto that. i don't think you are - diane abbott... we will get onto that. i don't think you are one i diane abbott... we will get onto | that. i don't think you are one big ha - that. i don't think you are one big happy family _ that. i don't think you are one big happy family but _ that. i don't think you are one big happy family but if _ that. i don't think you are one big happy family but if you _ that. i don't think you are one big happy family but if you did - that. i don't think you are one big happy family but if you did do i that. i don't think you are one big happy family but if you did do thej happy family but if you did do the leadership debates, it is good preparation for the conservative leadership election.— preparation for the conservative leadership election. wes, are you the interviewer? _ leadership election. wes, are you the interviewer? sorry, _ leadership election. wes, are you the interviewer? sorry, jo. - leadership election. wes, are you j the interviewer? sorry, jo. maybe this is the dress _ the interviewer? sorry, jo. maybe this is the dress rehearsal- the interviewer? sorry, jo. maybe this is the dress rehearsal for i this is the dress rehearsal for friday, if both of you take part. you can get involved in the bbc�*s debates. if you have a question to put to the politicians, you can get in touch. email haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk, or get in touch via the bbc news website. we will catch up with our

correspondence, helen catt who is on the campaign trail with the prime minister. what has been happening and where are you? taste minister. what has been happening and where are you?— and where are you? we are in the south-east _ and where are you? we are in the south-east today _ and where are you? we are in the south-east today in _ and where are you? we are in the south-east today in oxfordshire. | and where are you? we are in the i south-east today in oxfordshire. i'm south—east today in oxfordshire. i'm afraid that's all i can tell you because of the way these visits work and security things, but that is where we are and the prime minister is on the campaign trail here. what is on the campaign trail here. what has been the _ is on the campaign trail here. what has been the focus _ is on the campaign trail here. what has been the focus today? today . is on the campaign trail here. what i has been the focus today? today the oli has been the focus today? today the policy focus — has been the focus today? today the policy focus for _ has been the focus today? today the policy focus for the _ has been the focus today? today the policy focus for the conservatives i policy focus for the conservatives is around this policy to amend the equality act. the conservatives are framing this as a clearing up exercise if you will and it is to do with the equality act which provides legal protections to people on the basis of certain protective characteristics, age, race and sex. what the conservatives are saying is they will amend the act to make it clear that sex means biological sex because it is at this moment they

say open to interpretation. they believe that is the original intention of the act and they say that the meaning of sex has evolved over time, that's why a change in the law is needed and it will give greater legal protection to people who run single sex spaces and they talk about things like hospital wards and rape crisis centres. the other thing they will do is to make it a reserve matterfor other thing they will do is to make it a reserve matter for westminster, so it will be westminster that decides on these things which could be an interesting way to go on this. so that is what they are putting forward. they have of course in the past been criticised for stoking up division on this issue and today the liberal democrats are saying they are waging a phony culture war. labour is not saying it will change the outcome it says it would be looking to provide better guidance to people about this, but of course what the conservatives are saying this is about tidying up the act,

making it clearer for people and making it clearer for people and making it clearer for people and making it easier, they will of course be aware this is an issue that has been a sore spot for other parties, in particular labour and the s&p and they will not be unhappy for that to be poked.— for that to be poked. helen catt with the prime _ for that to be poked. helen catt with the prime minister- for that to be poked. helen catt with the prime minister on i for that to be poked. helen catt with the prime minister on the i with the prime minister on the campaign trail. luckily we have kemi badenoch, the equalities minister here. the plan to amend the equalities act to specify sex, which is a protected characteristic and means biological sex. are you changing the law or are you clarifying what already exists? it is a change that will result in a clarification. the word biological is not there. this isjust making it clearer that the original intention of the act was that sex should be a protected characteristic that is biological, that is why there are exemptions even within the act on single sex spaces. you exemptions even within the act on single sex spaces.— single sex spaces. you will reopen the equalities _ single sex spaces. you will reopen

the equalities act _ single sex spaces. you will reopen the equalities act of— single sex spaces. you will reopen the equalities act of 2010. - single sex spaces. you will reopen the equalities act of 2010. so i the equalities act of 2010. so anybody could put down their own amendments, they could chew over this major piece of legislation. that is not the way we are planning to do it. i have been working on this for quite a while, it was interrupted by the snp gender recognition bill. if we go back to why the confusion has become more apparent, there has been a court case, with which said legal sex is what the language and the equality act means and so we need to bring that clarification in. it is very arcane, very technical, a lot of people don't understand and that is why we have so many of these very divisive debates, lots of people making all sorts of accusations. we want to bring more light into the issue. do want to bring more light into the issue. ,, . want to bring more light into the issue. , ., . . want to bring more light into the issue. i. ., ., , issue. do you agree with what is bein: issue. do you agree with what is being proposed _ issue. do you agree with what is being proposed here? _ issue. do you agree with what is being proposed here? when i issue. do you agree with what is being proposed here? when thej issue. do you agree with what is i being proposed here? when the last labour government _ being proposed here? when the last labour government introduced i being proposed here? when the last labour government introduced the l labour government introduced the equality— labour government introduced the equality act, the intention was for

sex to— equality act, the intention was for sex to relate to biological sex and the distinction to be made with gender— the distinction to be made with gender identity and to recognise both as — gender identity and to recognise both as protected characteristics. as with— both as protected characteristics. as with other areas of the law there might— as with other areas of the law there might be _ as with other areas of the law there might be times where there two rub up might be times where there two rub up against _ might be times where there two rub up against each other and we have to find their— up against each other and we have to find their way through and same—sex marriage _ find their way through and same—sex marriage was a good example where we found a _ marriage was a good example where we found a way— marriage was a good example where we found a way through in that conflict between _ found a way through in that conflict between the same—sex marriage rights of gay— between the same—sex marriage rights of gay people and religious groups who might say, well, that is not in accordance — who might say, well, that is not in accordance with the tenants of our faith _ accordance with the tenants of our faith we — accordance with the tenants of our faith. we found a way through that everyone _ faith. we found a way through that everyone could live with. where i'm not clear— everyone could live with. where i'm not clear is — everyone could live with. where i'm not clear is why changes to primary legislation— not clear is why changes to primary legislation is needed and not guidance. legislation is needed and not uuidance. �* , ., guidance. because of the court case. how the judgment _ guidance. because of the court case. how the judgment has _ guidance. because of the court case. how the judgment has made - guidance. because of the court case. how the judgment has made that i how the judgment has made that necessary. this was one of the things we had to go through when we were stopping the s&p from doing what they did in scotland, that's why the second part is making this a reserve matter. what you cannot have this one status in england and

another in scotland. it is important we have a uniform approach to these issues. , , ., , ., issues. just on this point about the union, issues. just on this point about the union. this — issues. just on this point about the union. this is _ issues. just on this point about the union, this is where _ issues. just on this point about the union, this is where i _ issues. just on this point about the union, this is where i think- issues. just on this point about the union, this is where i think we i issues. just on this point about the union, this is where i think we had | union, this is where i think we had to tread _ union, this is where i think we had to tread carefully because i would much _ to tread carefully because i would much rather an approach where the uk government— much rather an approach where the uk government said, there are tensions with particular legal cases and there — with particular legal cases and there are _ with particular legal cases and there are challenges with upholding there are challenges with upholding the correct single space exemptions, how can _ the correct single space exemptions, how can we _ the correct single space exemptions, how can we work together across the uk? my— how can we work together across the uk? my anxiety about the way the government has come into this debate today is— government has come into this debate today is it's _ government has come into this debate today is it's a gift for nationalists and so ironically, a party— nationalists and so ironically, a party meant to be the conservative and yunus — party meant to be the conservative and yunus party hasjust given the snp another. i disagree with that. this is one of the most popular i this is one of the most popular things we did in scotland were scottish people felt their own government was doing the wrong thing. that's the first time... they had passed the law, that is what devolved government means. it

was blocked by westminster successfully, i grant you, but the question of it being a reserve matter, which means devolved governments could not introduce legislation as they try to do in terms of gender recognition or self identification, you are going to stop that with your proposal? because you can't have a woman being one thing in scotland and something different in england. you cannot have that, and we must remember why we are doing this. it's not because the conservative party wants to do it, as wes streeting says. we had hundreds of thousands of people signing a petition, women crying out all over. the really harrowing letter that i read about a woman being raped in a toilet. let me finish. we have rapists being put in women's prisons and that being said to be legal. we can'tjust leave that and say we will put up more guidance. we have put up the guidance, it is not working and people will bring endless tribunal. we need to settle it once and for all. , ., ,., , . .,

we need to settle it once and for all. , ., ,., , ., ., ., ,, we need to settle it once and for all. , ., , ., ., ., ,, ., all. the proposal to make it out reserve matter _ all. the proposal to make it out reserve matter so _ all. the proposal to make it out reserve matter so that - all. the proposalto make it out| reserve matter so that devolved governments couldn't pass the sort of legislation that the scottish government did, do you support that will not? ., ., ., ., will not? you have to tread carefully. _ will not? you have to tread carefully, and _ will not? you have to tread carefully, and i _ will not? you have to tread carefully, and i think- will not? you have to tread carefully, and i think we i will not? you have to tread i carefully, and i think we would will not? you have to tread - carefully, and i think we would want a more _ carefully, and i think we would want a more respectful relationship. if we disagree with the snp, the best thin- we disagree with the snp, the best thing to— we disagree with the snp, the best thing to do was to take them on and vote them _ thing to do was to take them on and vote them out in scotland as well as uk wide _ vote them out in scotland as well as uk wide. my scepticism comes in. we see it _ uk wide. my scepticism comes in. we see it splashed across the front pages _ see it splashed across the front pages today, and i think we've seen whether— pages today, and i think we've seen whether it _ pages today, and i think we've seen whether it is through this or national— whether it is through this or national service, i think an attempt by the _ national service, i think an attempt by the conservatives to generate some _ by the conservatives to generate some debates that are not about the economy, _ some debates that are not about the economy, the nhs or law and order and criminal— economy, the nhs or law and order and criminaljustice, to move away from _ and criminaljustice, to move away from those — and criminaljustice, to move away from those issues where the conservatives have an appalling record _ conservatives have an appalling record and no offer for the future of the _ record and no offer for the future of the country. i do think and i've argued _ of the country. i do think and i've argued for— of the country. i do think and i've argued for some time about the importance of protecting women's sex -based _ importance of protecting women's sex —based rights in law. by importance of protecting women's sex -based rights in law.— -based rights in law. by working with the snp _ -based rights in law. by working with the snp i'm _ -based rights in law. by working with the snp i'm not _ -based rights in law. by working with the snp i'm not really i -based rights in law. by working i with the snp i'm not really changing anything. he hasn't answered the question and said whether he agreed or disagreed. he said, we willjust be nicer and hopefully everything will be ok. it is not a serious

response to this issue. we need seriousness and the labour party are not serious. you seriousness and the labour party are rrot serious-— not serious. you sort of implied in our not serious. you sort of implied in your answer. _ not serious. you sort of implied in your answer. i— not serious. you sort of implied in your answer, i think _ not serious. you sort of implied in your answer, i think this _ not serious. you sort of implied in your answer, i think this is - not serious. you sort of implied in your answer, i think this is about i your answer, i think this is about creating — your answer, i think this is about creating more dividing lines and stoking — creating more dividing lines and stoking controversy rather than finding — stoking controversy rather than finding solutions.— stoking controversy rather than finding solutions. hang on, it is not “ust finding solutions. hang on, it is notjust wes — finding solutions. hang on, it is not just wes streeting - finding solutions. hang on, it is notjust wes streeting and i finding solutions. hang on, it is notjust wes streeting and the l notjust wes streeting and the labour party, because this is from conservative candidate elliot coburn, who has tweeted: here we go again, wondered how long it would take. this is about the conservative central office saying, we know what a woman is, cure starmer doesn't. are you just stoking a debate that you think will win you votes among your party faithful? h0. you think will win you votes among your party faithful?— you think will win you votes among your party faithful? no, the people who are most _ your party faithful? no, the people who are most in _ your party faithful? no, the people who are most in favour _ your party faithful? no, the people who are most in favour of - your party faithful? no, the people who are most in favour of this i your party faithful? no, the people who are most in favour of this are l who are most in favour of this are women on the left. there is lots of opinion, lots of strong legal opinion, lots of strong legal opinion, that says this is a mess, the law is confused, and what we are doing is bringing... but the law is confused, and what we are doing is bringing. . ._ doing is bringing... but what do you sa to doing is bringing... but what do you say to elliott — doing is bringing... but what do you

say to elliott coburn? _ doing is bringing... but what do you say to elliott coburn? i _ doing is bringing... but what do you say to elliott coburn? i would - doing is bringing... but what do you say to elliott coburn? i would say i say to elliott coburn? i would say that we have _ say to elliott coburn? i would say that we have an _ say to elliott coburn? i would say that we have an area _ say to elliott coburn? i would say that we have an area where - say to elliott coburn? i would say that we have an area where there say to elliott coburn? i would say i that we have an area where there is tension between protecting women and... but tension between protecting women and... �* , ., tension between protecting women and---_ i've _ tension between protecting women | and. . ._ i've explained. and... but why now? i've explained. you haven't — and... but why now? i've explained. you haven't explained _ and... but why now? i've explained. you haven't explained why - and... but why now? i've explained. you haven't explained why now. - and... but why now? i've explained. i you haven't explained why now. you have been equalities minister for two year — why have you been doing this now? two year - why have you been doing this now? �* u, , two year - why have you been doing this now? �* u, , ., ., ., this now? because we had to deal with the gender _ this now? because we had to deal with the gender recognition - this now? because we had to deal with the gender recognition bill. with the gender recognition bill first. we had to. we could not bring this legislation in. there is a package of things we have done. we have worked on gender—questioning guidance for schools, dealt with mixed sex wards. there was a lot of stuff we have done in this space. we have been working on this policy and if there hadn't been a snap election it would probably have been laid in september. but we went through the work away, it is going in the manifesto.— work away, it is going in the manifesto. �* , , ., , manifesto. briefly, the way you set out our manifesto. briefly, the way you set out your case _ manifesto. briefly, the way you set out your case on — manifesto. briefly, the way you set out your case on this _ manifesto. briefly, the way you set out your case on this programme i manifesto. briefly, the way you set i out your case on this programme was far more _ out your case on this programme was far more considered and the tone in which _ far more considered and the tone in which you _ far more considered and the tone in which you put it across was so different — which you put it across was so different to that ridiculous tweet that elliott coburn has rightly

challenge. if this is the sort of debate — challenge. if this is the sort of debate rishi sunak will come to the debates_ debate rishi sunak will come to the debates with, he should be ready to answer. _ debates with, he should be ready to answer, why is it that if you care about _ answer, why is it that if you care about women's rights that only 2.5% of rapists _ about women's rights that only 2.5% of rapists see the inside of a courtroom, let alone a prison cell? why are _ courtroom, let alone a prison cell? why are so — courtroom, let alone a prison cell? why are so many women suffering and dyin- why are so many women suffering and dying in_ why are so many women suffering and dying in childbirth? fora why are so many women suffering and dying in childbirth? for a condition like endometriosis, women are waiting — like endometriosis, women are waiting eight years for a diagnosis. those _ waiting eight years for a diagnosis. those are — waiting eight years for a diagnosis. those are issues that affect women, too. those are issues that affect women, too this _ those are issues that affect women, too. this government has no record, and that— too. this government has no record, and that tweet is a total disgrace, that even— and that tweet is a total disgrace, that even your own people are putting — that even your own people are putting it — that even your own people are pulling it out. | that even your own people are pulling it out-— pulling it out. i will let you respond — pulling it out. i will let you respond and _ pulling it out. i will let you respond and then - pulling it out. i will let you respond and then i - pulling it out. i will let you respond and then i must i pulling it out. i will let you - respond and then i must come to pulling it out. i will let you _ respond and then i must come to my other guests. respond and then i must come to my other guests— other guests. that tweet was a dis race. other guests. that tweet was a disgrace- all— other guests. that tweet was a disgrace. all the _ other guests. that tweet was a disgrace. all the things - other guests. that tweet was a disgrace. all the things that. other guests. that tweet was a i disgrace. all the things that wes streetin: disgrace. all the things that wes streeting is _ disgrace. all the things that wes streeting is talking _ disgrace. all the things that wes streeting is talking about, - disgrace. all the things that wes streeting is talking about, we i disgrace. all the things that wes i streeting is talking about, we have a plan. there are so many statistics. labourare a plan. there are so many statistics. labour are quite happy to put out silly tweets and nonsense but they don't like it when the opposite happens. in politics, you will have lots of people putting out

funny means. it is part of... cure starmer has flip—flopped endlessly on this issue and that has become apparent. it on this issue and that has become a- arent. .,, on this issue and that has become a- arent. ., , ., on this issue and that has become a--arent. , ., ' . apparent. it has been a difficult issue, apparent. it has been a difficult issue. and _ apparent. it has been a difficult issue, and the _ apparent. it has been a difficult issue, and the debate - apparent. it has been a difficult issue, and the debate around i apparent. it has been a difficult| issue, and the debate around it, apparent. it has been a difficult - issue, and the debate around it, and it hasn't been easily for keir starmer to talk about. you are riaht, starmer to talk about. you are riuht, it starmer to talk about. you are right. it is _ starmer to talk about. you are right. it is a — starmer to talk about. you are right, it is a very _ starmer to talk about. you are right, it is a very contentious l right, it is a very contentious issue — right, it is a very contentious issue and _ right, it is a very contentious issue and it _ right, it is a very contentious issue and it inflames- right, it is a very contentious issue and it inflames lots- right, it is a very contentious issue and it inflames lots ofi issue and it inflames lots of feelings— issue and it inflames lots of feelings on_ issue and it inflames lots of feelings on both _ issue and it inflames lots of feelings on both sides. - issue and it inflames lots of feelings on both sides. the| issue and it inflames lots of- feelings on both sides. the way to deal with— feelings on both sides. the way to deal with it — feelings on both sides. the way to deal with it is _ feelings on both sides. the way to deal with it is to _ feelings on both sides. the way to deal with it is to listen _ feelings on both sides. the way to deal with it is to listen to - feelings on both sides. the way to deal with it is to listen to those i deal with it is to listen to those arguments. _ deal with it is to listen to those arguments, and— deal with it is to listen to those arguments, and keir— deal with it is to listen to those arguments, and keir starmer. deal with it is to listen to those i arguments, and keir starmer has. deal with it is to listen to those - arguments, and keir starmer has. he doesn't _ arguments, and keir starmer has. he doesn't want — arguments, and keir starmer has. he doesn't want this _ arguments, and keir starmer has. he doesn't want this issue, _ arguments, and keir starmer has. he doesn't want this issue, and - arguments, and keir starmer has. he doesn't want this issue, and he - doesn't want this issue, and he doesn't — doesn't want this issue, and he doesn't want _ doesn't want this issue, and he doesn't want the _ doesn't want this issue, and he doesn't want the very- doesn't want this issue, and he i doesn't want the very vulnerable people _ doesn't want the very vulnerable people involved, _ doesn't want the very vulnerable people involved, to— doesn't want the very vulnerable people involved, to be _ doesn't want the very vulnerable people involved, to be kicked i doesn't want the very vulnerable - people involved, to be kicked around as a political— people involved, to be kicked around as a political football. _ people involved, to be kicked around as a political football. there - people involved, to be kicked around as a political football. there was - people involved, to be kicked around as a political football. there was a i as a political football. there was a difference — as a political football. there was a difference between _ as a political football. there was a difference between kemi - as a political football. there was a difference between kemi saying. as a political football. there was a i difference between kemi saying this is unnecessarily— difference between kemi saying this is unnecessarily contagious - difference between kemi saying this is unnecessarily contagious on - difference between kemi saying this is unnecessarily contagious on one i is unnecessarily contagious on one hand, _ is unnecessarily contagious on one hand. and — is unnecessarily contagious on one hand. and then— is unnecessarily contagious on one hand, and then choosing _ is unnecessarily contagious on one hand, and then choosing to - is unnecessarily contagious on one hand, and then choosing to inserti hand, and then choosing to insert this into _ hand, and then choosing to insert this into the — hand, and then choosing to insert this into the white _ hand, and then choosing to insert this into the white heat _ hand, and then choosing to insert this into the white heat of - hand, and then choosing to insert this into the white heat of a - this into the white heat of a general— this into the white heat of a general election— this into the white heat of a general election campaign i this into the white heat of a i general election campaign as a this into the white heat of a _ general election campaign as a wedge issue _ general election campaign as a wedge issue do _ general election campaign as a wedge issue do you — general election campaign as a wedge issue. do you stand _ general election campaign as a wedge issue. do you stand by—

general election campaign as a wedge issue. do you stand by that _ general election campaign as a wedge issue. do you stand by that advert? i issue. do you stand by that advert? please _ issue. do you stand by that advert? ptease don't— issue. do you stand by that advert? please don't point— issue. do you stand by that advert? please don't point at _ issue. do you stand by that advert? please don't point at me _ issue. do you stand by that advert? please don't point at me like - issue. do you stand by that advert? please don't point at me like that. i please don't point at me like that. it is unnecessarily aggressive. hate it is unnecessarily aggressive. we are having a conversation here. but there _ are having a conversation here. but there are _ are having a conversation here. but there are strong _ are having a conversation here. but there are strong feelings _ are having a conversation here. but there are strong feelings about - there are strong feelings about this _ there are strong feelings about this. . . there are strong feelings about this. ., ., ., ., . this. there are, and i have watched so many women — this. there are, and i have watched so many women vilified. _ this. there are, and i have watched so many women vilified. people - so many women vilified. people standing with signs... i5 so many women vilified. people standing with signs... is it responsible _ standing with signs... is it responsible to _ standing with signs... is it responsible to insert - standing with signs... is it responsible to insert this issue in the white heat of an election? it is the white heat of an election? it is the time to — the white heat of an election? it is the time to do _ the white heat of an election? it is the time to do so _ the white heat of an election? if 3 the time to do so because then you get a mandate to do it. to not do it in an election, you go back into power and people say, why didn't you put it in the manifesto? this is absolutely the time to talk about things. absolutely the time to talk about thins. ~ ., . , absolutely the time to talk about thins. ~ ., ., , ., things. without anything of 'abbing at all, ou things. without anything of 'abbing at an. you have i things. without anything of 'abbing at all, you have had * things. without anything of 'abbing at all, you have had 14 h things. without anything of jabbing at all, you have had 14 years - things. without anything of jabbing at all, you have had 14 years to - at all, you have had 14 years to amend — at all, you have had 14 years to amend its— at all, you have had 14 years to amend its legislation. - at all, you have had 14 years to amend its legislation. it- at all, you have had 14 years to amend its legislation. it is- at all, you have had 14 years to amend its legislation. it is a i amend its legislation. it is a 14-year-old _ amend its legislation. it is a 14—year—old piece _ amend its legislation. it is a 14—year—old piece of- amend its legislation. it is a - 14—year—old piece of legislation. in an election — 14—year—old piece of legislation. in an election campaign, _ 14—year—old piece of legislation. in an election campaign, which - an election campaign, which according _ an election campaign, which according to _ an election campaign, which according to the _ an election campaign, which according to the polls - an election campaign, which according to the polls you i an election campaign, whichl according to the polls you are losing. — according to the polls you are losing. you _ according to the polls you are losing. you are _ according to the polls you are losing, you are choosing - according to the polls you are losing, you are choosing to l according to the polls you are - losing, you are choosing to insert this issue — losing, you are choosing to insert this issue into— losing, you are choosing to insert this issue into it, _ losing, you are choosing to insert this issue into it, with— losing, you are choosing to insert this issue into it, with these - losing, you are choosing to insert this issue into it, with these very| this issue into it, with these very divisive _ this issue into it, with these very divisive adverts _ this issue into it, with these very divisive adverts which _ this issue into it, with these very divisive adverts which i _ this issue into it, with these very divisive adverts which i haven't i this issue into it, with these very. divisive adverts which i haven't yet heard _ divisive adverts which i haven't yet heard whether _ divisive adverts which i haven't yet heard whether you _ divisive adverts which i haven't yet heard whether you agree - divisive adverts which i haven't yet heard whether you agree with - divisive adverts which i haven't yet heard whether you agree with him| divisive adverts which i haven't yet i heard whether you agree with him or not. heard whether you agree with him or not i_ heard whether you agree with him or not i wonder— heard whether you agree with him or not. i wonder whether— heard whether you agree with him or not. i wonder whether you _ heard whether you agree with him or not. i wonder whether you agree -

heard whether you agree with him or| not. i wonder whether you agree with that advert _ not. i wonder whether you agree with that advert it— not. i wonder whether you agree with that advert. it is _ not. i wonder whether you agree with that advert. it is a _ not. i wonder whether you agree with that advert. it is a good _ not. i wonder whether you agree with that advert. it is a good —— _ not. i wonder whether you agree with that advert. it is a good —— and - that advert. it is a good —— and think— that advert. it is a good —— and think it — that advert. it is a good —— and think it is — that advert. it is a good —— and think it is a _ that advert. it is a good —— and think it is a good _ that advert. it is a good —— and think it is a good way- that advert. it is a good —— and think it is a good way of - that advert. it is a good —— andl think it is a good way of dealing with the — think it is a good way of dealing with the issue. _ think it is a good way of dealing with the issue. [it— think it is a good way of dealing with the issue.— think it is a good way of dealing with the issue. ., , . ., , , , with the issue. it has cropped up in the last few — with the issue. it has cropped up in the last few years, _ with the issue. it has cropped up in the last few years, it _ with the issue. it has cropped up in the last few years, it wasn't - the last few years, it wasn't something we were talking about 14 years ago. the act came in under a conservative government, despite it being passed by labour. do i think that keir starmer knows what a woman is chris mikey has given all sorts of answers and nobody knows. in an election, i think it is justifiable for people to point out where we have different opinions. i think a and you think b, it is suddenly a wedge issue and we need to let people know where we stand on that and it is up to the electorate to decide. ~ ., ., , ., ~' decide. what do you think the motivation — decide. what do you think the motivation is _ decide. what do you think the motivation is for _ decide. what do you think the motivation is for tackling - decide. what do you think the motivation is for tackling the l motivation is for tackling the debate chris might do you take sincerely what kemi badenoch said, oras sincerely what kemi badenoch said, or as many commentators have said, it is appeal to a core vote along with national service and the pensioners' 000 plus. i with national service and the pensioners' 000 plus. i think that two thins pensioners' 000 plus. i think that two things can — pensioners' 000 plus. i think that two things can be _ pensioners' 000 plus. i think that two things can be true _ pensioners' 000 plus. i think that two things can be true at - pensioners' 000 plus. i think that two things can be true at the - two things can be true at the meantime. the conservative party knows _ meantime. the conservative party knows that— meantime. the conservative party knows that cure starmer has struggled to answer the question of

what is _ struggled to answer the question of what is a _ struggled to answer the question of what is a woman. —— keir starmer. i think— what is a woman. —— keir starmer. i think the _ what is a woman. —— keir starmer. i think the conversation we just witnessed between the two of them for about _ witnessed between the two of them for about ten minutes was one of the most _ for about ten minutes was one of the most intimate ones i've seen in this general— most intimate ones i've seen in this general election debate so far. we have seen— general election debate so far. we have seen a very good reason to say this should — have seen a very good reason to say this should be part of the election. i agree _ this should be part of the election. i agree with kemi that this is a relatively— i agree with kemi that this is a relatively new issue when it comes toiust _ relatively new issue when it comes toiust how— relatively new issue when it comes tojust how contentious relatively new issue when it comes to just how contentious and how political— to just how contentious and how political it — to just how contentious and how political it has become. it makes sense _ political it has become. it makes sense to — political it has become. it makes sense to me that it would be discussed. twitter is not the place to discuss— discussed. twitter is not the place to discuss anything. what we just witnessed, to me, is the perfect example — witnessed, to me, is the perfect example of why it is ok to bring up this topic— example of why it is ok to bring up this topic in — example of why it is ok to bring up this topic in conversation, and especially— this topic in conversation, and especially around the general election— especially around the general election where we are talking about something deeply serious, which, as wes streeting said, that conflict of opinion— wes streeting said, that conflict of opinion you sometimes get on minority— opinion you sometimes get on minority rights, it's hard to talk about, — minority rights, it's hard to talk about, politicians have to talk about, — about, politicians have to talk about, and you are a perfect example of how _ about, and you are a perfect example of how you _ about, and you are a perfect example of how you can do this in a general election _ of how you can do this in a general election. ., ., , , election. one thing that has been missin: election. one thing that has been missing is. _ election. one thing that has been missing is. a _ election. one thing that has been missing is, a lot _ election. one thing that has been missing is, a lot of— election. one thing that has been missing is, a lot of the _ election. one thing that has been missing is, a lot of the toxicity i missing is, a lot of the toxicity of this debate has created real and

palpable fear among trans people about where they fit, whether they will be accepted, whether they belong. i am acutely aware of this in relation to the cas review. looking at identity services for young people. you changed your mind about your view generally. what young people. you changed your mind about your view generally.— about your view generally. what i really regretted _ about your view generally. what i really regretted was _ about your view generally. what i really regretted was the - about your view generally. what i - really regretted was the campaigning approach that said get over it to people who are trans, when i think there are lots of issues that need to be worked through. i want us to have as a society are much more healthy debate and conversation that seeks to heal division rather than to exploit and inflame it. this seeks to heal division rather than to exploit and inflame it.- to exploit and inflame it. this is where we _ to exploit and inflame it. this is where we agree. _ to exploit and inflame it. this is where we agree. this _ to exploit and inflame it. this is where we agree. this shouldn't| to exploit and inflame it. this is i where we agree. this shouldn't be to exploit and inflame it. this is - where we agree. this shouldn't be a party— where we agree. this shouldn't be a party political issue. it should be a cross—party issue, but it is constantly— a cross—party issue, but it is constantly being recognised in that way, and _ constantly being recognised in that way, and hopefully we can move on and talk— way, and hopefully we can move on and talk about whether the legislation works.— and talk about whether the legislation works. and talk about whether the lerislation works. �* , ., ~ , ., ., legislation works. let's take you at our word legislation works. let's take you at your word and _ legislation works. let's take you at your word and we _ legislation works. let's take you at your word and we will _ legislation works. let's take you at your word and we will move - legislation works. let's take you at your word and we will move on. i

legislation works. let's take you at. your word and we will move on. this headlining bbc news. diane abbott says she intends to run and win for labour. she has confirmed that she will run as labour's candidate in hackney north and stoke newington, and it follows a row over whether or not the party would allow her to stand and whether she was going to be blocked. are you pleased that she is running, wes streeting? i’m be blocked. are you pleased that she is running, wes streeting?— is running, wes streeting? i'm glad this is resolved. _ is running, wes streeting? i'm glad this is resolved. what _ is running, wes streeting? i'm glad this is resolved. what made - is running, wes streeting? i'm glad this is resolved. what made diane i this is resolved. what made diane abbott's case different from c'est jeremy corbyn's case is that what you did was wrong and what you said was wrong, and it was right that there was a disciplinary process. she apologised immediately. she has undergone anti—semitism training. what keir has tried to do with how disciplinary processes to make sure first that it is independent of politicians. secondly, unapologetically high standards. there are people who have been barred from being candidates at this general election from the left and right of the labour party because we have just come out of a parliament where people have caused

by—elections because they can't keep their hands to themselves, they are googling tractor born, taking bungs. —— tractor pornography. flan i googling tractor born, taking bungs. -- tractor pornography.— -- tractor pornography. can i 'ust ick ou -- tractor pornography. can i 'ust pick you up — -- tractor pornography. can i 'ust pickyou up on i -- tractor pornography. can i 'ust pick you up on one i -- tractor pornography. can i 'ust pick you up on one thing i -- tractor pornography. can i 'ust pick you up on one thing you b -- tractor pornography. can ijust| pick you up on one thing you said? it will draw a line under it, the matter has been resolved, except that diane abbott tweeted this. in fact, it was a piece written by you, tom. it says starmer on abbott. i actually have more respect for diane than she probably realises. diane then tweeted, more lies from starmer. it was quickly deleted but this is the screen grab of what she actually said. there is clearly a lot of bad blood still between diane abbott and keir starmer. can that relationship be mended? i abbott and keir starmer. can that relationship be mended?- abbott and keir starmer. can that relationship be mended? i don't know if diane said — relationship be mended? i don't know if diane said that _ relationship be mended? i don't know if diane said that tweet _ relationship be mended? i don't know if diane said that tweet or _ relationship be mended? i don't know if diane said that tweet or whether i if diane said that tweet or whether it was— if diane said that tweet or whether it was mistakenly sent. the fact it was deleted says quite a lot. i feel confident— was deleted says quite a lot. i feel confident that this hasn't been a pleasant — confident that this hasn't been a pleasant experience for anyone, and i feel— pleasant experience for anyone, and i feel confident that the conduct that saw— i feel confident that the conduct

that saw diane abbott lose the whip and he _ that saw diane abbott lose the whip and be suspended will not be repeated. that doesn't mean that diane _ repeated. that doesn't mean that diane abbott is not going to... is going _ diane abbott is not going to... is going to — diane abbott is not going to... is going to stop being diane abbott and she will— going to stop being diane abbott and she will conduce to disagree with is because _ she will conduce to disagree with is because the labour party has changed and we _ because the labour party has changed and we are _ because the labour party has changed and we are not always on the same page _ and we are not always on the same page she — and we are not always on the same page. she tweets almost daily to criticise — page. she tweets almost daily to criticise something i said about the nhs, _ criticise something i said about the nhs, but _ criticise something i said about the nhs, but do i welcome her as part of the big _ nhs, but do i welcome her as part of the big tent?— the big tent? absolutely i do. tom, it was your — the big tent? absolutely i do. tom, it was your article _ the big tent? absolutely i do. tom, it was your article that _ the big tent? absolutely i do. tom, it was your article that diane - it was your article that diane tweeted. did keir starmer�*s praised diane feel authentic to you? it clearly didn't to her if you take that line from her tweet. the conversation _ that line from her tweet. the conversation i _ that line from her tweet. the conversation i had _ that line from her tweet. the conversation i had with him on friday— conversation i had with him on friday night _ conversation i had with him on friday night when _ conversation i had with him on friday night when he - conversation i had with him on friday night when he was - conversation i had with him on. friday night when he was coming conversation i had with him on- friday night when he was coming back from scotland. — friday night when he was coming back from scotland, he _ friday night when he was coming back from scotland, he was _ friday night when he was coming back from scotland, he was really - from scotland, he was really frustrated _ from scotland, he was really frustrated with _ from scotland, he was really frustrated with the _ from scotland, he was really frustrated with the way - from scotland, he was really frustrated with the way this. from scotland, he was really - frustrated with the way this story had gone — frustrated with the way this story had gone i— frustrated with the way this story had gone. i could _ frustrated with the way this story had gone. i could feel— frustrated with the way this story had gone. i could feel that. - frustrated with the way this story had gone. i could feel that. he i frustrated with the way this story i had gone. i could feel that. he was infuriated _ had gone. i could feel that. he was infuriated by— had gone. i could feel that. he was infuriated by the _ had gone. i could feel that. he was infuriated by the briefing _ had gone. i could feel that. he was infuriated by the briefing by- infuriated by the briefing by whoever— infuriated by the briefing by whoever it— infuriated by the briefing by whoever it was, _ infuriated by the briefing by whoever it was, saying - infuriated by the briefing by whoever it was, saying how| infuriated by the briefing by- whoever it was, saying how she wasn't — whoever it was, saying how she wasn't going _ whoever it was, saying how she wasn't going to _ whoever it was, saying how she wasn't going to be _ whoever it was, saying how she wasn't going to be allowed - whoever it was, saying how she wasn't going to be allowed to i whoever it was, saying how she - wasn't going to be allowed to stand. there _ wasn't going to be allowed to stand. there hadn't— wasn't going to be allowed to stand. there hadn't been— wasn't going to be allowed to stand. there hadn't been a _ wasn't going to be allowed to stand. there hadn't been a decision - wasn't going to be allowed to stand. there hadn't been a decision taken. | there hadn't been a decision taken. he doesn't— there hadn't been a decision taken. he doesn't like _ there hadn't been a decision taken. he doesn't like briefing _ there hadn't been a decision taken. he doesn't like briefing by- he doesn't like briefing by anonymous— he doesn't like briefing by anonymous sources. - he doesn't like briefing by anonymous sources. he i

he doesn't like briefing by anonymous sources.- he doesn't like briefing by anonymous sources. he doesn't like briefing by anon mous sources. , ., anonymous sources. he is the labour leader. labour's _ anonymous sources. he is the labour leader. labour's national _ anonymous sources. he is the labour leader. labour's national ruling - leader. labour's national ruling executive is to some extent a creature of him. there is not much distance between him and the ruling executive and their decision on whether she could stand or not. the dela , and whether she could stand or not. the delay. and i — whether she could stand or not. the delay, and i can understand it from both sides. — delay, and i can understand it from both sides, was _ delay, and i can understand it from both sides, was there _ delay, and i can understand it from both sides, was there had - delay, and i can understand it from both sides, was there had been. delay, and i can understand it froml both sides, was there had been this conversation — both sides, was there had been this conversation going _ both sides, was there had been this conversation going on _ both sides, was there had been this conversation going on about - both sides, was there had been thisl conversation going on about whether she could _ conversation going on about whether she could step— conversation going on about whether she could step down, _ conversation going on about whether she could step down, come - conversation going on about whether she could step down, come back- conversation going on about whetherj she could step down, come back into the party— she could step down, come back into the party then— she could step down, come back into the party then step _ she could step down, come back into the party then step down _ she could step down, come back into the party then step down with - she could step down, come back into the party then step down with praise| the party then step down with praise ringing _ the party then step down with praise ringing in _ the party then step down with praise ringing in her— the party then step down with praise ringing in her ears. _ the party then step down with praise ringing in her ears. i— the party then step down with praise ringing in her ears. i don't— the party then step down with praise ringing in her ears. i don't think- ringing in her ears. i don't think it was— ringing in her ears. i don't think it was formalised _ ringing in her ears. i don't think it was formalised as _ ringing in her ears. i don't think it was formalised as a _ ringing in her ears. i don't think it was formalised as a deal, - ringing in her ears. i don't think it was formalised as a deal, butj ringing in her ears. i don't think. it was formalised as a deal, but it was wrecked _ it was formalised as a deal, but it was wrecked by— it was formalised as a deal, but it was wrecked by this _ it was formalised as a deal, but it was wrecked by this anonymous i was wrecked by this anonymous briefing — was wrecked by this anonymous briefing that— was wrecked by this anonymous briefing. that really— was wrecked by this anonymous briefing. that really annoys - was wrecked by this anonymous briefing. that really annoys keir starmer — briefing. that really annoys keir starmer because _ briefing. that really annoys keir starmer because he _ briefing. that really annoys keir starmer because he thinks - briefing. that really annoys keir starmer because he thinks it. briefing. that really annoys keir starmer because he thinks it isi starmer because he thinks it is unprofessional— starmer because he thinks it is unprofessional and _ starmer because he thinks it is unprofessional and he - starmer because he thinks it is unprofessional and he hates i starmer because he thinks it is i unprofessional and he hates that sort of— unprofessional and he hates that sort of briefing. _ unprofessional and he hates that sort of briefing. it _ unprofessional and he hates that sort of briefing. it is _ unprofessional and he hates that sort of briefing. it is one - unprofessional and he hates that sort of briefing. it is one of- unprofessional and he hates that sort of briefing. it is one of the i sort of briefing. it is one of the reasons— sort of briefing. it is one of the reasons why— sort of briefing. it is one of the reasons why he _ sort of briefing. it is one of the reasons why he has _ sort of briefing. it is one of the reasons why he has made - sort of briefing. it is one of the reasons why he has made it. sort of briefing. it is one of the i reasons why he has made it clear sort of briefing. it is one of the - reasons why he has made it clear he wants _ reasons why he has made it clear he wants her_ reasons why he has made it clear he wants her to — reasons why he has made it clear he wants her to stand. _ reasons why he has made it clear he wants her to stand. he— reasons why he has made it clear he wants her to stand.— wants her to stand. he has now, finall . wants her to stand. he has now, finally- do _ wants her to stand. he has now, finally- do you — wants her to stand. he has now, finally. do you think— wants her to stand. he has now, finally. do you think it _ wants her to stand. he has now, finally. do you think it has - wants her to stand. he has now, finally. do you think it has cut i finally. do you think it has cut through with the public? know, but i think it is still _ through with the public? know, but i think it is still tricky _ through with the public? know, but i think it is still tricky for _ through with the public? know, but i think it is still tricky for the - think it is still tricky for the labour— think it is still tricky for the labour party. do i think whether diane _ labour party. do i think whether diane abbott gets the stand as an mp will make _ diane abbott gets the stand as an mp will make a difference to the labour party— will make a difference to the labour party of— will make a difference to the labour party of ten points? it is

unfortunate to run on a platform saying _ unfortunate to run on a platform saying you — unfortunate to run on a platform saying you will end the chaos and to have so _ saying you will end the chaos and to have so much chaos and attention drawn _ have so much chaos and attention drawn to — have so much chaos and attention drawn to the point where you can't -ive drawn to the point where you can't give a _ drawn to the point where you can't give a simple answer. it is essentially a simple issue. let me show ou essentially a simple issue. let me show you the _ essentially a simple issue. let me show you the other _ essentially a simple issue. let me show you the other candidates - essentially a simple issue. let me show you the other candidates we | show you the other candidates we know so far who are also standing in hackney north and stoke newington. you can see them on your screen and i understand there will be a full list available because the closing deadline is the end of the week. keir starmer has been campaigning with his shadow defence secretary, trying to put security and defence at the heart of this campaign. meeting prospective labour, well, they are labour candidates with a military background. you can see the pictures. how is kia starmer trying to reshape or remould the candidates that are standing at this election for labour? standing ona standing on a platform with veterans is a vivid _ standing on a platform with veterans is a vivid symbol— standing on a platform with veterans is a vivid symbol of— standing on a platform with veterans is a vivid symbol of change. -

is a vivid symbol of change. labour's _ is a vivid symbol of change. labour's 's _ is a vivid symbol of change. labour's 's relationship - is a vivid symbol of change. i labour's 's relationship with is a vivid symbol of change. - labour's 's relationship with the armed — labour's 's relationship with the armed forces _ labour's 's relationship with the armed forces has _ labour's 's relationship with the armed forces has been - labour's 's relationship with the armed forces has been better. labour's 's relationship with the . armed forces has been better than people _ armed forces has been better than people think — armed forces has been better than people think. john _ armed forces has been better than people think. john reid _ armed forces has been better than people think. john reid used - armed forces has been better than people think. john reid used to- armed forces has been better thanj people think. john reid used to say he loved _ people think. john reid used to say he loved being _ people think. john reid used to say he loved being defence _ people think. john reid used to say he loved being defence secretary, i he loved being defence secretary, with people — he loved being defence secretary, with people he _ he loved being defence secretary, with people he could _ he loved being defence secretary, with people he could call- he loved being defence secretary, i with people he could call comrades. there _ with people he could call comrades. there is— with people he could call comrades. there is quite — with people he could call comrades. there is quite a _ with people he could call comrades. there is quite a lot _ with people he could call comrades. there is quite a lot of— there is quite a lot of compatibility- there is quite a lot of| compatibility between there is quite a lot of- compatibility between public there is quite a lot of— compatibility between public service and the _ compatibility between public service and the idea — compatibility between public service and the idea of— compatibility between public service and the idea of the _ compatibility between public service and the idea of the labour— compatibility between public service and the idea of the labour party- compatibility between public service i and the idea of the labour party and labour— and the idea of the labour party and labour will— and the idea of the labour party and labour will make _ and the idea of the labour party and labour will make more _ and the idea of the labour party and labour will make more of— and the idea of the labour party and labour will make more of this. - and the idea of the labour party and labour will make more of this. it. labour will make more of this. seems to be something keir labour will make more of this.- seems to be something keir starmer personally wants to put forward, a break perhaps withjeremy corbyn. and actually, taking the conservatives on on something that has been considered in the past your territory. it has been considered in the past your territo . . , . ., , has been considered in the past your territo . . , ., ., , ., territory. it has and that is for aood territory. it has and that is for good reason. _ territory. it has and that is for good reason, is _ territory. it has and that is for good reason, is because - territory. it has and that is for i good reason, is because people believe we are the ones who take defence more seriously.- believe we are the ones who take defence more seriously. apart from the former defence _ defence more seriously. apart from the former defence secretary - defence more seriously. apart from the former defence secretary ben i the former defence secretary ben wallace. , , ., ., ~' the former defence secretary ben wallace. , , ., ., ~ ., the former defence secretary ben wallace, , ., ., ~ ., wallace. just look at the announcement - wallace. just look at the announcement on - wallace. just look at the announcement on what l wallace. just look at the i announcement on what we wallace. just look at the - announcement on what we will wallace. just look at the _ announcement on what we will spend, 2.5% by 2030 but what is more interesting is you wouldn't have had that before and that links to the

diane abbott issue. there is clearly tension in the back benches of the labour party. keir starmer is trying to present a united front, i think it will fragment quickly. there are all sorts of issues but this is politics, it happens in every party. what i resent is when labour try and present this as something as unique to the conservative party when we have differences. the diane abbott thing shows that is not the case. this is a unique period in british history — this is a unique period in british history the _ this is a unique period in british history. the chopping and changing of prime _ history. the chopping and changing of prime ministers, chancellors, cabinet — of prime ministers, chancellors, cabinet ministers, the fact there is a whole _ cabinet ministers, the fact there is a whole bunch of you running leadership elections ahead of the general— leadership elections ahead of the general election. rishi sunak can't lead his— general election. rishi sunak can't lead his party, had no mandate and that is— lead his party, had no mandate and that is a _ lead his party, had no mandate and that is a fundamental difference, that is a fundamental difference, that is— that is a fundamental difference, that is what you can see in the candidate _ that is what you can see in the candidate selection, the policy agenda, — candidate selection, the policy agenda, keir starmerwon a mandate to lead _ agenda, keir starmerwon a mandate to lead the _ agenda, keir starmerwon a mandate to lead the labour party and he has

led the _ to lead the labour party and he has led the party to the extent that jeremy— led the party to the extent that jeremy corbyn isn't a candidate standing — jeremy corbyn isn't a candidate standing for the labour party. it is still his party- _ standing for the labour party. it is still his party. the _ standing for the labour party. it is still his party. the party _ standing for the labour party. it is still his party. the party has - still his party. the party has changed- — still his party. the party has changed. you _ still his party. the party has changed. you look - still his party. the party has changed. you look at - still his party. the party has changed. you look at the i still his party. the party has - changed. you look at the candidate standing. _ changed. you look at the candidate standing, it is fundamentally different. there is no doubt about the fundamental change keir starmer has led _ the fundamental change keir starmer has led and that has been rishi sunak's— has led and that has been rishi sunak's challenge. he lost to liz, and he _ sunak's challenge. he lost to liz, and he has — sunak's challenge. he lost to liz, and he has never regained that ground, — and he has never regained that ground, never had that mandate for change _ ground, never had that mandate for chance. ~ , , , ground, never had that mandate for chance, , , , change. wes is being rude about the prime minister _ change. wes is being rude about the prime minister and _ change. wes is being rude about the prime minister and the _ change. wes is being rude about the prime minister and the fact - change. wes is being rude about the prime minister and the fact of- change. wes is being rude about the prime minister and the fact of the i prime minister and the fact of the matter is keir starmer has not removed many of the very problematic mps in his party. if labour win the general election, they will have a lot of power. there are so many foolish and silly things we have seen labour mps come out and say, a long thread of things, so much of

that, you look at the questions people ask, they are not a serious party and that will be increasingly apparent during the election. luca; apparent during the election. lucy allen, who — apparent during the election. lucy allen. who is _ apparent during the election. lucy allen, who is standing down, was conservative mp in telford wanted to see reform as a candidate in her seat. party discipline is across the spectrum. seat. party discipline is across the sectrum. ., ., ., ., , ., spectrum. you have a tory candidate runnina as spectrum. you have a tory candidate running as a — spectrum. you have a tory candidate running as a labour— spectrum. you have a tory candidate running as a labour candidate. - running as a labour candidate. robert — running as a labour candidate. robert largan... he is hugging the labour— robert largan... he is hugging the labour brand close because yours is so toxic— labour brand close because yours is so toxic and — labour brand close because yours is so toxic and i hope people remember jon pearce _ so toxic and i hope people remember jon pearce as the outstanding labour candidate _ jon pearce as the outstanding labour candidate. ,, . jon pearce as the outstanding labour candidate. . . , ., jon pearce as the outstanding labour candidate. ,, . , ., ., jon pearce as the outstanding labour candidate. ,, . . , ., candidate. since you have brought it u - , candidate. since you have brought it u, he is candidate. since you have brought it up. he is the — candidate. since you have brought it up, he is the conservative _ candidate. since you have brought it up, he is the conservative candidatei up, he is the conservative candidate but labour for logan, up, he is the conservative candidate but labourfor logan, he is up, he is the conservative candidate but labour for logan, he is the conservative candidate. he seems to be doing everything to disguise the fact... . ,. , ., , be doing everything to disguise the fact... . ,. , ., fact... that screenshot is taken out of context- — fact... that screenshot is taken out of context- he _ fact... that screenshot is taken out of context. he has _

fact... that screenshot is taken out of context. he has written - fact... that screenshot is taken out of context. he has written stuff - of context. he has written stuff around it sting lots of labour people want to support him. it is very easy to crop all that out. hang on. there very easy to crop all that out. hang on- there is _ very easy to crop all that out. hang on. there is also _ very easy to crop all that out. hang on. there is also reform _ very easy to crop all that out. hang on. there is also reform for - very easy to crop all that out. hang on. there is also reform for robert. what he is doing is saying there are people from all parties who support him. . .. ., , ., him. here are the candidate standing in that seat- — him. here are the candidate standing in that seat. you _ him. here are the candidate standing in that seat. you can _ him. here are the candidate standing in that seat. you can see _ him. here are the candidate standing in that seat. you can see them - him. here are the candidate standing in that seat. you can see them there| in that seat. you can see them there on our screen. since wes streeting raised it, iwant on our screen. since wes streeting raised it, i want to ask you about your leadership ambitions. have you been talking to any of your colleagues? i been talking to any of your colleagues?— been talking to any of your collea . ues? . i: ., been talking to any of your colleauues? . :: ., .,, colleagues? i ran in 2022 and lost. in october— colleagues? i ran in 2022 and lost. in october 2022 _ colleagues? i ran in 2022 and lost. in october 2022 |_ colleagues? i ran in 2022 and lost. in october 2022 i supported - colleagues? i ran in 2022 and lost. in october 2022 i supported rishi i in october 2022 i supported rishi sunak and i support him no. this is one of the challenges i have had. not able to talk about the work i am doing because the questions are, are you running for leader? there is a whole bubble of westminster nonsense that doesn't appeal to our constituents. i don't think we

should talk about any leadership contest, we should be talking about which party is best to run the country and then see what happens after the election. that country and then see what happens after the election.— after the election. that is a manifestation _ after the election. that is a manifestation of _ after the election. that is a manifestation of the - after the election. that is a | manifestation of the chaos. after the election. that is a - manifestation of the chaos. because rishi sunak is not leading his party and even _ rishi sunak is not leading his party and even if— rishi sunak is not leading his party and even if he scrapes through, he will be _ and even if he scrapes through, he will be out — and even if he scrapes through, he will be out the door of number ten. you get _ will be out the door of number ten. you get those sorts of questions i'm afraid _ you get those sorts of questions i'm afraid you — you get those sorts of questions i'm afraid. you could rule yourself out and then — afraid. you could rule yourself out and then that would kill the question. and then that would kill the question-— and then that would kill the cuestion. , , ., ., ,, . ., , question. yes, but i am a secretary of state and — question. yes, but i am a secretary of state and part _ question. yes, but i am a secretary of state and part of— question. yes, but i am a secretary of state and part of cabinet - question. yes, but i am a secretary of state and part of cabinet and - question. yes, but i am a secretary of state and part of cabinet and i i of state and part of cabinet and i am here to talk about what we are offering at the election. wes wants to talk about whether or not i am running because i have put him in a difficult position. what they don't have our serious answers to the difficult questions. we have seen a lot of turbulence but that is because of external effects have been unbelievable. look at covid, look at ukraine. can you imagine if labour had been in charge during that period? you

labour had been in charge during that period?— labour had been in charge during that eriod? ., . ., ~ ., that period? you have talked about serious answers _ that period? you have talked about serious answers for _ that period? you have talked about serious answers for the _ that period? you have talked about serious answers for the big - serious answers for the big questions. one of the big topics that isn't being discussed is brexit which dominated. itruth? that isn't being discussed is brexit which dominated.— that isn't being discussed is brexit which dominated. why not? i think labour which dominated. why not? i think labour have _ which dominated. why not? i think labour have done _ which dominated. why not? i think labour have done my _ which dominated. why not? i think labour have done my good - which dominated. why not? i think labour have done my good enough which dominated. why not? i think- labour have done my good enough job labour have done my good enoughjob of making _ labour have done my good enoughjob of making clear — labour have done my good enoughjob of making clear that _ labour have done my good enoughjob of making clear that certain _ labour have done my good enoughjob of making clear that certain red - of making clear that certain red lines _ of making clear that certain red lines will— of making clear that certain red lines will not _ of making clear that certain red lines will not be _ of making clear that certain red lines will not be crossed. - of making clear that certain red lines will not be crossed. plans| of making clear that certain red i lines will not be crossed. plans for a softer _ lines will not be crossed. plans for a softer brexit _ lines will not be crossed. plans for a softer brexit deal. _ lines will not be crossed. plans for a softer brexit deal. the _ lines will not be crossed. plans for. a softer brexit deal. the impression you get— a softer brexit deal. the impression you get is— a softer brexit deal. the impression you get is labour— a softer brexit deal. the impression you get is labour one _ a softer brexit deal. the impression you get is labour one easier- a softer brexit deal. the impression you get is labour one easier trade, i you get is labour one easier trade, fewer— you get is labour one easier trade, fewer checks — you get is labour one easier trade, fewer checks but— you get is labour one easier trade, fewer checks but they _ you get is labour one easier trade, fewer checks but they will - you get is labour one easier trade, fewer checks but they will not - you get is labour one easier trade, | fewer checks but they will not cross the red _ fewer checks but they will not cross the red lines — fewer checks but they will not cross the red lines at _ fewer checks but they will not cross the red lines at the _ fewer checks but they will not cross the red lines at the customs - fewer checks but they will not cross the red lines at the customs unioni the red lines at the customs union or single _ the red lines at the customs union or single market. _ the red lines at the customs union or single market. it _ the red lines at the customs union or single market. it sounds - the red lines at the customs union or single market. it sounds similarj or single market. it sounds similar to what— or single market. it sounds similar to what rishi — or single market. it sounds similar to what rishi sunak— or single market. it sounds similar to what rishi sunak try _ or single market. it sounds similar to what rishi sunak try to - or single market. it sounds similarl to what rishi sunak try to negotiate with the _ to what rishi sunak try to negotiate with the elk — to what rishi sunak try to negotiate with the eu. the _ to what rishi sunak try to negotiate with the eu. the harsh _ to what rishi sunak try to negotiate with the eu. the harsh reality- to what rishi sunak try to negotiate with the eu. the harsh reality for. with the eu. the harsh reality for any government _ with the eu. the harsh reality for any government to _ with the eu. the harsh reality for any government to come - with the eu. the harsh reality for any government to come in - with the eu. the harsh reality for any government to come in is - with the eu. the harsh reality forl any government to come in is that the eu _ any government to come in is that the eu is— any government to come in is that the eu is not— any government to come in is that the eu is not interested _ any government to come in is that the eu is not interested in - any government to come in is that the eu is not interested in a - the eu is not interested in a political— the eu is not interested in a political party _ the eu is not interested in a political party, the - the eu is not interested in a. political party, the characters negotiating _ political party, the characters negotiating. they _ political party, the characters negotiating. they want - political party, the characters negotiating. they want to - political party, the characters - negotiating. they want to protect their single — negotiating. they want to protect their single market, _ negotiating. they want to protect their single market, they- negotiating. they want to protect their single market, they have i negotiating. they want to protect i their single market, they have got those _ their single market, they have got those red — their single market, they have got those red lines _ their single market, they have got those red lines and _ their single market, they have got those red lines and all— their single market, they have got those red lines and all of - their single market, they have got those red lines and all of europe i their single market, they have got| those red lines and all of europe is dealing _ those red lines and all of europe is dealing with — those red lines and all of europe is dealing with illegal— those red lines and all of europe is dealing with illegal immigration. i dealing with illegal immigration. there _ dealing with illegal immigration. there is— dealing with illegal immigration. there is no— dealing with illegal immigration. there is no way— dealing with illegal immigration. there is no way you _ dealing with illegal immigration. there is no way you get - dealing with illegal immigration. there is no way you get a - dealing with illegal immigration. | there is no way you get a revised brexit _ there is no way you get a revised brexit deal— there is no way you get a revised brexit deal without _ there is no way you get a revised brexit deal without immigration i there is no way you get a revised i brexit deal without immigration on the table — brexit deal without immigration on the table. ., ., , ., brexit deal without immigration on the table. ., ., ~' brexit deal without immigration on thetable. ., ., ~ ., the table. tom, would you like to see brexit — the table. tom, would you like to see brexit being _ the table. tom, would you like to see brexit being discussed - the table. tom, would you like to see brexit being discussed morel

see brexit being discussed more fully in this campaign by all parties? i fully in this campaign by all arties? ., ., , ., fully in this campaign by all arties? . ., , ., ., parties? i have always thought that labour parties? i have always thought that labour should _ parties? i have always thought that labour should come _ parties? i have always thought that labour should come out _ parties? i have always thought that labour should come out more - parties? i have always thought that l labour should come out more boldly and say brexit has been a catastrophic error, an act of national self—harm and more and more people are realising it. tell national self-harm and more and more people are realising it.— people are realising it. tell us what ou people are realising it. tell us what you really _ people are realising it. tell us what you really think. - people are realising it. tell us what you really think. kemi i people are realising it. tell us - what you really think. kemi badenoch has her day job _ what you really think. kemi badenoch has her day job as _ what you really think. kemi badenoch has her day job as trade _ what you really think. kemi badenoch has her day job as trade secretary. i has her dayjob as trade secretary. we all know that brexit is harming our capacity to export to europe. we know that. there are things that can be done. what labour will say in this election... i think what labour will say in this election afterwards, they don't want to revisit an incredibly divisive debate, but what they can do is do stuff which is in the national interest which the tories won't do because they are so captured by this ideological faction of the right of the party. b.

ideological faction of the right of the -a . �* . ideological faction of the right of the - . �* . ., ideological faction of the right of thea .�* . .,, ideological faction of the right of the -a .�* . ., , ., the party. a great act of self harm, ou 'ust the party. a great act of self harm, you just won't _ the party. a great act of self harm, you just won't admit _ the party. a great act of self harm, you just won't admit it _ the party. a great act of self harm, you just won't admit it and - the party. a great act of self harm, you just won't admit it and the - you just won't admit it and the trade that has been done post—brexit is no way equal to the trade we have lost with out accretions partnered the eu? , , , lost with out accretions partnered the eu? , , ., ., lost with out accretions partnered theeu? , ., ., ., the eu? this is based on a fallacy that most of— the eu? this is based on a fallacy that most of the _ the eu? this is based on a fallacy that most of the trade _ the eu? this is based on a fallacy that most of the trade we - the eu? this is based on a fallacy that most of the trade we do - the eu? this is based on a fallacy that most of the trade we do is i that most of the trade we do is goods — that most of the trade we do is goods in— that most of the trade we do is goods. in fact... exports. exports have— goods. in fact... exports. exports have been— goods. in fact... exports. exports have been going gangbusters. yes, goods— have been going gangbusters. yes, goods exports have fallen but that is something that is not unique to hear~ _ is something that is not unique to hear~ we've — is something that is not unique to hear. we've had a seamless issue in terms _ hear. we've had a seamless issue in terms of— hear. we've had a seamless issue in terms of supply chains over covid and one _ terms of supply chains over covid and one of— terms of supply chains over covid and one of the things analyst tell you this — and one of the things analyst tell you this because we left at the end ofjanuary— you this because we left at the end of january 2020 you this because we left at the end ofjanuary 2020 and covid started a few weeks — ofjanuary 2020 and covid started a few weeks later, it has been mixed up few weeks later, it has been mixed up what _ few weeks later, it has been mixed up what has — few weeks later, it has been mixed up what has happened. it is true we have few— up what has happened. it is true we have few exports to the eu but with many _ have few exports to the eu but with many countries that we have done trade _ many countries that we have done trade deals with, they are going up. all right _ trade deals with, they are going up. all right. but why isn't it part of

the campaign? the all right. but why isn't it part of the campaign?— all right. but why isn't it part of the campaign? all right. but why isn't it part of thecamairn? , the campaign? the campaign has 'ust started. we have fl the campaign? the campaign has 'ust started. we have overtaken �* the campaign? the campaign hasjust started. we have overtaken japan, i started. we have overtakenjapan, france _ started. we have overtakenjapan, france this — started. we have overtakenjapan, france. this is despite brexit. the fact of— france. this is despite brexit. the fact of the — france. this is despite brexit. the fact of the matter is people voted for brexit. — fact of the matter is people voted for brexit, we need to deliver it, we have — for brexit, we need to deliver it, we have left the european union. the strategy— we have left the european union. the strategy now is to make sure we get the benefits of it. what will happen is tom _ the benefits of it. what will happen is tom and — the benefits of it. what will happen is tom and labour will say we need to go— is tom and labour will say we need to go back, — is tom and labour will say we need to go back, back to square one. isn't_ to go back, back to square one. isn't it — to go back, back to square one. isn't it a — to go back, back to square one. isn't it a bit _ to go back, back to square one. isn't it a bit significant that your job is trade secretary yet your first big intervention in the campaign is not to say, our trade is going gangbusters and brexit is a great success, it was to talk about trans issues. i great success, it was to talk about trans issues-— trans issues. i am also the equalities _ trans issues. i am also the equalities minister. - trans issues. i am also the equalities minister. i- trans issues. i am also the. equalities minister. i accept trans issues. i am also the - equalities minister. i accept that. hana equalities minister. i accept that. ham on, equalities minister. i accept that. hang on. there — equalities minister. i accept that. hang on, there is _ equalities minister. i accept that. hang on, there is a _ equalities minister. i accept that. hang on, there is a challenge - equalities minister. i accept that. l hang on, there is a challenge here to labour. why aren't you embracing the idea of that close a

relationship with europe, talking about it with the eu? in broad terms, labour have mentioned it but not in specifics and not taking on the idea that you might have to rejoin the customs union or the single market in order to get that relationship. {in single market in order to get that relationship-— single market in order to get that relationship. on the single market and customs _ relationship. on the single market and customs union, _ relationship. on the single market and customs union, we _ relationship. on the single market and customs union, we will- relationship. on the single market and customs union, we will not. relationship. on the single market i and customs union, we will not make the same _ and customs union, we will not make the same mistake _ and customs union, we will not make the same mistake during _ and customs union, we will not make the same mistake during the - the same mistake during the referendum _ the same mistake during the referendum where _ the same mistake during the referendum where folks - the same mistake during thel referendum where folks leave the same mistake during the - referendum where folks leave made it all sounds _ referendum where folks leave made it all sounds so — referendum where folks leave made it all sounds so simple _ referendum where folks leave made it all sounds so simple and _ referendum where folks leave made it all sounds so simple and there - all sounds so simple and there wouldn't — all sounds so simple and there wouldn't be _ all sounds so simple and there wouldn't be any _ all sounds so simple and there| wouldn't be any consequences. all sounds so simple and there i wouldn't be any consequences. i spent _ wouldn't be any consequences. i spent four— wouldn't be any consequences. i spent four years _ wouldn't be any consequences. i spent four years on _ wouldn't be any consequences. i spent four years on the - wouldn't be any consequences. ii spent four years on the commons treasury— spent four years on the commons treasury committee, _ spent four years on the commons treasury committee, the - spent four years on the commons treasury committee, the idea - spent four years on the commons treasury committee, the idea of. spent four years on the commons i treasury committee, the idea of the uk being _ treasury committee, the idea of the uk being able— treasury committee, the idea of the uk being able to— treasury committee, the idea of the uk being able to take _ treasury committee, the idea of the uk being able to take a _ treasury committee, the idea of the uk being able to take a serious, - uk being able to take a serious, especially— uk being able to take a serious, especially given _ uk being able to take a serious, especially given the _ uk being able to take a serious, especially given the size - uk being able to take a serious, especially given the size of - uk being able to take a serious, especially given the size of our. especially given the size of our financial— especially given the size of our financial services. _ especially given the size of our financial services. it _ especially given the size of our financial services. it is - especially given the size of our financial services. it is not - financial services. it is not without _ financial services. it is not without risk _ financial services. it is not without risk or— financial services. it is not i without risk or consequences financial services. it is not - without risk or consequences or complexity _ without risk or consequences or complexity we _ without risk or consequences or complexity. we are _ without risk or consequences or complexity. we are not - without risk or consequences or complexity. we are not contentj without risk or consequences or. complexity. we are not content to without risk or consequences or- complexity. we are not content to be will take _ complexity. we are not content to be will take us — complexity. we are not content to be will take us i— complexity. we are not content to be will take us. i hope _ complexity. we are not content to be will take us. i hope we _ complexity. we are not content to be will take us. i hope we can— complexity. we are not content to be will take us. i hope we can press- will take us. i hope we can press the reset— will take us. i hope we can press the reset button— will take us. i hope we can press the reset button on— will take us. i hope we can press the reset button on our- will take us. i hope we can press. the reset button on our relationship with the _ the reset button on our relationship with the european _ the reset button on our relationship with the european union _ the reset button on our relationship with the european union and - the reset button on our relationship with the european union and have i the reset button on our relationshipj with the european union and have a more _ with the european union and have a more mature — with the european union and have a more mature and _ with the european union and have a more mature and grown—up- more mature and grown—up conversation, _ more mature and grown—up conversation, but _ more mature and grown—up conversation, but i'm - more mature and grown—up conversation, but i'm afraid more mature and grown—up- conversation, but i'm afraid there are consequences— conversation, but i'm afraid there are consequences from _ conversation, but i'm afraid there are consequences from leaving i conversation, but i'm afraid there. are consequences from leaving the european _ are consequences from leaving the european union _ are consequences from leaving the european union. that _ are consequences from leaving the european union. that question- are consequences from leaving the european union. that question has been _ european union. that question has been settled — european union. that question has been settled by— european union. that question has been settled by one _

european union. that question has been settled by one referendum i european union. that question has. been settled by one referendum and two general— been settled by one referendum and two general elections, _ been settled by one referendum and two general elections, there - been settled by one referendum and two general elections, there is- been settled by one referendum and two general elections, there is no. two general elections, there is no point _ two general elections, there is no point we — two general elections, there is no point we litigate _ two general elections, there is no point we litigate in _ two general elections, there is no point we litigate in the _ two general elections, there is no point we litigate in the past - two general elections, there is no point we litigate in the past and i two general elections, there is no point we litigate in the past and it is a reminder— point we litigate in the past and it is a reminder that _ point we litigate in the past and it is a reminder that this _ point we litigate in the past and it is a reminder that this election i is a reminder that this election does _ is a reminder that this election does matter~ _ is a reminder that this election does matter. it _ is a reminder that this election does matter. it does _ is a reminder that this election does matter. it does change i is a reminder that this election - does matter. it does change things. if you _ does matter. it does change things. if you want — does matter. it does change things. if you want to — does matter. it does change things. if you want to change _ does matter. it does change things. if you want to change things - does matter. it does change things. if you want to change things for - does matter. it does change things. if you want to change things for the | if you want to change things for the better, _ if you want to change things for the better, cast — if you want to change things for the better, cast your— if you want to change things for the better, cast your vote _ if you want to change things for the better, cast your vote for _ if you want to change things for the better, cast your vote for labour i better, cast your vote for labour but what — better, cast your vote for labour but what we _ better, cast your vote for labour but what we can't _ better, cast your vote for labour but what we can't do _ better, cast your vote for labour but what we can't do is - better, cast your vote for labour but what we can't do is pretend. better, cast your vote for labourl but what we can't do is pretend is it would _ but what we can't do is pretend is it would be — but what we can't do is pretend is it would be easy _ but what we can't do is pretend is it would be easy to _ but what we can't do is pretend is it would be easy to rejoin - but what we can't do is pretend is it would be easy to rejoin the - it would be easy to rejoin the customs _ it would be easy to rejoin the customs union— it would be easy to rejoin the customs union or— it would be easy to rejoin the customs union or the - it would be easy to rejoin the customs union or the single i it would be easy to rejoin the - customs union or the single market. it wouldn't — customs union or the single market. it wouldn't it— customs union or the single market. it wouldn't. it would _ customs union or the single market. it wouldn't. it would be _ customs union or the single market. it wouldn't. it would be easier- customs union or the single market. it wouldn't. it would be easier to - it wouldn't. it would be easier to 'oin it wouldn't. it would be easier to join the — it wouldn't. it would be easier to join the european _ it wouldn't. it would be easier to join the european union, - it wouldn't. it would be easier to join the european union, it- join the european union, it wouldn't _ join the european union, it wouldn't. what— join the european union, it wouldn't. what people - join the european union, it. wouldn't. what people would join the european union, it- wouldn't. what people would be desperate — wouldn't. what people would be desperate for _ wouldn't. what people would be desperate for is _ wouldn't. what people would be desperate for is to _ wouldn't. what people would be desperate for is to draw- wouldn't. what people would be desperate for is to draw a - wouldn't. what people would be desperate for is to draw a line i desperate for is to draw a line under— desperate for is to draw a line under where _ desperate for is to draw a line underwhere we _ desperate for is to draw a line under where we have - desperate for is to draw a line under where we have been. desperate for is to draw a line i under where we have been since brexit _ under where we have been since brexit. do — under where we have been since brexit. , ., ., ., ., brexit. do you agree with that, tom? we used to talk— brexit. do you agree with that, tom? we used to talk about _ brexit. do you agree with that, tom? we used to talk about cherry - we used to talk about cherry picking. there is now some low hanging fruit of the stuff labour can do very quickly, whether it is a veterinary agreement, visa rules. i think there will be growing pressure on a new labour government to do more and to go further than this because public opinion is shifting at a rate of knots. the view of

business has shifted and they really want further action.— want further action. labour have decided to _ want further action. labour have decided to join _ want further action. labour have decided to join the _ want further action. labour have decided to join the tories - want further action. labour have decided to join the tories in - want further action. labour have i decided to join the tories in being decided tojoin the tories in being quite _ decided tojoin the tories in being quite anti—immigration this election _ quite anti—immigration this election. one of the most important outcomes— election. one of the most important outcomes of this election, regardless who wins is we will discover— regardless who wins is we will discover what isn'tjust regardless who wins is we will discover what isn't just a regardless who wins is we will discover what isn'tjust a party political— discover what isn'tjust a party political issue, but the major crisis — political issue, but the major crisis facing the uk that again if you were — crisis facing the uk that again if you were in the eu, it does not matter— you were in the eu, it does not matter if— you were in the eu, it does not matter if you are labour or tory, you will— matter if you are labour or tory, you will keep you hard lines. the state _ you will keep you hard lines. the state of — you will keep you hard lines. the state of the nhs, so many crises have _ state of the nhs, so many crises have been— state of the nhs, so many crises have been building for decades. it will become obvious what was tory infighting _ will become obvious what was tory infighting and what wasn't, what was a consequence of the lockdown is, what _ a consequence of the lockdown is, what has _ a consequence of the lockdown is, what has been the consequence of not tackling _ what has been the consequence of not tackling the nhs and social care. it will be _ tackling the nhs and social care. it will be hard stuff and the same issues — will be hard stuff and the same issues will face a potential new government as well as the old one. has brexit — government as well as the old one. has brexit been a success? i can oint to has brexit been a success? i can point to major— has brexit been a success? i can point to major successes - has brexit been a success? i can point to major successes like - has brexit been a success? i can point to major successes like the vaccine _ point to major successes like the vaccine roll—up but this is

something that will develop over decades— something that will develop over decades and is something the brits voted _ decades and is something the brits voted for~ — decades and is something the brits voted for. the decades and is something the brits voted for. �* �* , ., . voted for. the bbc is launching something _ voted for. the bbc is launching something new, _ voted for. the bbc is launching something new, we _ voted for. the bbc is launching something new, we are - voted for. the bbc is launching something new, we are calling | voted for. the bbc is launching. something new, we are calling it your voice, your vote. something new, we are calling it yourvoice, yourvote. it something new, we are calling it your voice, your vote. it is an invitation for you to take part in our coverage. contact us... that is all we have time for today. thank you to all of my guests. more tomorrow at 1215. goodbye.

today at one: the conservatives pledge to clarify the legal definition of a person's sex. the equalities minister kemi badenoch says this would make it easier to protect women—only spaces. also on the programme:

three, two, one... work starts on the rob burrow centre for motor neurone disease, just hours after the rugby league hero died in hospital surrounded by his family. he was asked, we were all there, and rob, he used his eyes a lot for yes and no, and is his eyes went like that. yeah. yeah, there were no hesitation, was there? no hesitation. he wants it to go ahead today. his best friend kevin sinfield — who's raised millions of pounds for research into the disease — says this is the moment they were all working for. as you can see it's pretty raw still. he will leave a massive hole. and i know there will be a lot of people out there who are heartbroken this morning. and 80 years on, we hear from one of the oldest surviving veterans of d—day. and coming up on bbc news: preparations for euro 2024 start tonight, as scotland play gibraltar

and england host bosnia and herzegovina at stjames' park,