labour they have exploded. a labour government _ they have exploded. a labour government would _ they have exploded. a labour government would open - they have exploded. a labour government would open the l they have exploded. a labour . government would open the door they have exploded. a labour - government would open the door and weave _ government would open the door and weave people to enter our country. the conservatives promised to introduce an annual cap on migration introduce an annual cap on migration in the face of devastating polls for the party. the lib dems are also hoping to knock the tories with a plan to provide free personal care for adults. plan to provide free personal care foradults. iii plan to provide free personal care for adults. ., ., ,. for adults. if we do that, we rescue our nhs, for adults. if we do that, we rescue our nhs. our _ for adults. if we do that, we rescue our nhs, our nhs _ for adults. if we do that, we rescue our nhs, our nhs is _ for adults. if we do that, we rescue our nhs, our nhs is on _ for adults. if we do that, we rescue our nhs, our nhs is on its - for adults. if we do that, we rescue our nhs, our nhs is on its knees. i our nhs, our nhs is on its knees. tonight? rishi sunak and keir starmer go head—to—head for the first time in a tv debate. and with big names stepping down from parliament, we look at the anticipated changing of the guard at westminster. joining us today, the minister for legal migration, labour harriet harman, and the left—wing media outlet, the founder of conservative home, tim montgomery. this is politics live, election

2024. welcome to viewers on bbc two, bbc iplayer and bbc news. let's start with nigel farage a's return to front line politics by standing, announcing his standing at the election. let's take a look at the front pages. starting with the daily mail, double blow for rishi sunak, his darkest hour, this is how the guardian has got it, tory alarm as nigel farage takes control of reform uk. less from the daily telegraph, i am back to lead the revolt. and the daily express, vote for nigel farage is more likely to end up with keir starmer in number ten. in the last 15 minutes or so, nigel farage has launched his campaign, he is standing in clacton, we will show you the other candidates are standing so far injust you the other candidates are standing so far in just a moment, what impact is nigel farage�*s return are standing in the selection going

to have the conservative party? fin to have the conservative party? on the campaign itself, it electrified it, it has been a dull campaign, we know what the result is going to be, a labour government, and suddenly there is controversy, there is entries. forthe there is controversy, there is entries. for the conservative party, i thought the best thing that rishi sunak did by calling in the early surprise election was discombobulated reform. they were not ready, nigel farage said he would not stand and i thought i was to the advantage the conservatives. his standing yesterday dominated all the headlines in social media, and it has turned what could be a very significant conservative defeat into a rout. we had to pull yesterday on sky news that topped about 140 conservative mps surviving, with nigel farage in the battle, i think, if tom could take 146 no, that would be most of his colleagues would take hundred 40 at the moment. what be most of his colleagues would take hundred 40 at the moment.- hundred 40 at the moment. what is our hundred 40 at the moment. what is your resnonse _ hundred 40 at the moment. what is your resoonse to — hundred 40 at the moment. what is your response to nigel— hundred 40 at the moment. what is your response to nigel farage? - hundred 40 at the moment. what is your response to nigel farage? talk

about the impact. he’s your response to nigel farage? talk about the impact.— about the impact. he's a big character. — about the impact. he's a big character. i _ about the impact. he's a big character, i have _ about the impact. he's a big character, i have worked - about the impact. he's a big l character, i have worked with about the impact. he's a big - character, i have worked with him in the referendum campaign, i know him a little _ the referendum campaign, i know him a little bit _ the referendum campaign, i know him a little bit. the problem is if you want _ a little bit. the problem is if you want to— a little bit. the problem is if you want to sustain exit, if you want to see migration continue to fall, and we have _ see migration continue to fall, and we have got a plan, delivering results. — we have got a plan, delivering results, the reduction in net migration, you will only get that with conservative members of parliament and a conservative government. all of that is of the table _ government. all of that is of the table with— government. all of that is of the table with labour, no credible plan to cut _ table with labour, no credible plan to cut net — table with labour, no credible plan to cut net migration, it would be a disaster— to cut net migration, it would be a disaster to — to cut net migration, it would be a disaster to vote reform because you would _ disaster to vote reform because you would get _ disaster to vote reform because you would get the opposite of what you want _ he has pledged to hold labour's featured the fire when it comes to the former red wall seats that labour were hoping to win back. how are you? the labour were hoping to win back. how are ou? . , , ., . are you? the reality is for council reform is going —

are you? the reality is for council reform is going to _ are you? the reality is for council reform is going to take _ are you? the reality is for council reform is going to take faults - are you? the reality is for council. reform is going to take faults away from conservative are not labour, but having said that, labour people are not being complacent. i am struggling at the moment because i'm supposed to be not fizzing with enthusiasm and being utterly complacent. the opinion polls are strong. and all is said and done, we have a mountain to climb. the conservatives won 162 more seats than. the conservatives won 162 more seats than labour at the last election, so people are rightly very focused and concerned and working hard, but it looks like reform is going to help labour, because it will take votes from the tories. what do you think the impact will be of nigel farage standing, moya? i think it will be less on the result— i think it will be less on the result in— i think it will be less on the result in parliament than on the discourse — result in parliament than on the discourse of the way we talk about politics _ discourse of the way we talk about politics and policy in the public sphere — politics and policy in the public sphere. for example, if you look at polling. _ sphere. for example, if you look at polling. it _ sphere. for example, if you look at polling, it says reform will probably return about two seats in the country, which is so much less than _ the country, which is so much less than the _ the country, which is so much less than the impact they are having on the discourse around it. you looked at that _

the discourse around it. you looked at that moh— the discourse around it. you looked at that mob in clacton surrounding nigel— at that mob in clacton surrounding nigel farage, and i think when you also look— nigel farage, and i think when you also look at the places reform have already— also look at the places reform have already stood, such as local elections, they have had much less a result— elections, they have had much less a result than— elections, they have had much less a result than the greens, who i don't see being — result than the greens, who i don't see being mobbed all the time or invited _ see being mobbed all the time or invited on — see being mobbed all the time or invited on the today programme. it invited on the today programme. it might— invited on the today programme. it might be the impact of splitting the vote, for example. it might be, but if you look again at the _ it might be, but if you look again at the rochdale by—election, somewhere reform study candidate, and the _ somewhere reform study candidate, and the workers party have a similar agenda, _ and the workers party have a similar agenda, they have a similar agenda on cultural— agenda, they have a similar agenda on cultural issues such as lgbtq people _ on cultural issues such as lgbtq people in— on cultural issues such as lgbtq people in the way they have been demonised and on climate change, but they won _ demonised and on climate change, but they won the election when reform came _ they won the election when reform came six. _ they won the election when reform came six, you have to ask why they won when— came six, you have to ask why they won when reform, with a similar agenda, — won when reform, with a similar agenda, didn't? it is because there are differences in the robustness of the foreign — are differences in the robustness of the foreign policy. iwill— the foreign policy. i will tell you why nigel farage is getting that attention rather than the greens or lib dems or whoever, because the most important thing that has happened in british politics in the last generation is brexit, and one man, more than anyone else made that happen, that's

why he's getting the attention, because people know, i think, when the spotlight is on him when he has the spotlight is on him when he has the opportunity to speak to the country, the electorate moves, and i think we saw excitement yesterday in the election that we hadn't seen before. are you moved by nigel farage? if i was in clacton, i would vote for him. but you are not. i am not, they will vote conservative. but there is this terrible irony, isn't there, that voting for nigel and reform will see all the things they are voting for nigel and reform will see all the things they ar- all the things they are campaigning aren't done away _ all the things they are campaigning aren't done away with. _ aren't done away with. brexit— aren't done away with. brexit would be wound back understand the government, and on doorsteps, — understand the government, and on doorsteps, i am finding there are a lot of— doorsteps, i am finding there are a lot of undecided voters, and i would vote that _ lot of undecided voters, and i would vote that would employ people who want to _ vote that would employ people who want to see that progress sustain to vote for— want to see that progress sustain to vote for us — vote for us. this- vote for us. this poll shows labour winning vote for — this poll shows labour winning a majority of 494, larger even than the landslide of tony blair. labour you can see, 422 are from the

general election. conservatives in 140, down by 225. it uses mrp. detailed demographic details to predict the outcome of the seats, a sophisticated way of polling public opinion. does it feel like 1997? as i say, i am trying not to let myself get run away with this, but i do remember the first parliamentary labour party meeting of the 1987, there was not a room big enough in there was not a room big enough in the house of commons for us to all church house. but will that place even be big enough for the result of the selection? but i mustn't be arrogant and count the votes... your maer is arrogant and count the votes... your pager is buzzing! _ arrogant and count the votes... your pager is buzzing! but _ arrogant and count the votes... your pager is buzzing! but the _ arrogant and count the votes... your pager is buzzing! but the truth - arrogant and count the votes... your pager is buzzing! but the truth is, i pager is buzzing! but the truth is, our candidates _ pager is buzzing! but the truth is, our candidates are _ pager is buzzing! but the truth is, our candidates are not _ pager is buzzing! but the truth is, i our candidates are not complacent, because getting people to change their mind from what they voted last time, getting them to trust you when they didn't trust you less time, it is a big task. sol they didn't trust you less time, it is a big task. so i will try and keep my mouth shut. i know i am here

to speak... keep my mouth shut. i know i am here to seak... ., ,. keep my mouth shut. i know i am here to speak- - -_ to speak... no, you have got to seak to speak... no, you have got to speak on _ to speak... no, you have got to speak on the — to speak... no, you have got to speak on the programme! - speak on the programme! i will try not to get too complacent. when the election was called, it was extraordinary, because i was looking around to talk to my colleagues, and there was no labour mps there. they had all gone out not to their own constituencies, but to the constituencies they were to end with to get rid of conservative mps. and all the tory mps were all there hugging each other and crying and saying goodbye it like at a funeral. it was extraordinary how depressed and miserable they were, and ours were in the field, putting their videos up. and it seems like rishi sunak has taken his own party by surprise. but ironically, we have been ready. actually, i should really retire from this programme, because i am not doing... i think you sound more excited then perhaps you have said! but morale in the conservative party must be rock bottom. lots of our candidates have been putting _ lots of our candidates have been putting in — lots of our candidates have been putting in a real shift for a long

time _ putting in a real shift for a long time 0t— putting in a real shift for a long time. of course, we had to do our 'ob time. of course, we had to do our job in— time. of course, we had to do our job in parliament and make sure the measures— job in parliament and make sure the measures we could get delivered from the wash— measures we could get delivered from the wash up, including important parts _ the wash up, including important parts of— the wash up, including important parts of our agenda, but we are an campaigning mode, working for every vote, _ campaigning mode, working for every vote taking _ campaigning mode, working for every vote, taking nothing for granted, but having — vote, taking nothing for granted, but having clear policies for what we would — but having clear policies for what we would do, which is out from harriet's's _ we would do, which is out from harriet's's party. but _ harriet's's party. butjust to underline harriet's's party. but just to underline the feeling among conservatives, tim hasjust said on air, aren't politics live, that if he were constituents in clacton, you would vote for nigel farage. what impact do you think that will have on conservatives, on conservative candidates and conservatives in their constituency? will they not expel you from the conservative party for that? i am conservative party for that? i am not a member— conservative party for that? i am not a member any _ conservative party for that? i am not a member any more, - conservative party for that? i am not a member any more, but... l not a member any more, but... but— not a member any more, but... but why— not a member any more, but... but why are _ not a member any more, but... but why are we not —— why are we asking _ but why are we not —— why are we asking him — but why are we not —— why are we asking him if— but why are we not —— why are we asking him if he _ but why are we not —— why are we asking him if he would _ but why are we not —— why are we asking him if he would be - but why are we not —— why are we asking him if he would be a - but why are we not —— why are we - asking him if he would be a member?

i asking him if he would be a member? i would _ asking him if he would be a member? i would vote _ asking him if he would be a member? i would vote for— asking him if he would be a member? i would vote for the _ asking him if he would be a member? i would vote for the labour— i would vote for the labour candidate to get the green candidates in bristol, for example. ithink— candidates in bristol, for example. i think a _ candidates in bristol, for example. i think a lot — candidates in bristol, for example. i think a lot of us are now beyond voting _ i think a lot of us are now beyond voting for— i think a lot of us are now beyond voting for parties, because with all due respect to tom, i think he is a really— due respect to tom, i think he is a really sincere public servant, but his promises on immigration made today— his promises on immigration made today were — his promises on immigration made today were all of us can remember david _ today were all of us can remember david cameron ten years ago or more saying. _ david cameron ten years ago or more saying. know— david cameron ten years ago or more saying, know ifs, no blacks, we are going _ saying, know ifs, no blacks, we are going to _ saying, know ifs, no blacks, we are going to bring immigration down to the tens— going to bring immigration down to the tens of— going to bring immigration down to the tens of thousands, and we are further— the tens of thousands, and we are further away from that target then we were _ further away from that target then we were when harriet harman left office _ we were when harriet harman left office. that is really the problem. so i office. that is really the problem. so i would — office. that is really the problem. so i would look for nigel farage in clacton _ so i would look for nigel farage in clacton as— so i would look for nigel farage in clacton as a protest vote, not particularly because they believe in everything he stands for, but ijust think— everything he stands for, but ijust think the _ everything he stands for, but ijust think the conservative party absolutely deserves the kicking that is coming _ absolutely deserves the kicking that is coming to them. i say that with no relish — is coming to them. i say that with no relish whatsoever, but unfortunately, tom, you haven't delivered, — unfortunately, tom, you haven't delivered, and notjust on immigration, but a whole range of other— immigration, but a whole range of other issues. we are further away from _ other issues. we are further away from the — other issues. we are further away from the kind of britain i thought we believed in them we were a years a-o. ago. i- ago. i mustjust ago. - imustjust let ago. — i must just let tom ago. — imustjust let tom respond.

ago. i must 'ust let tom resond. i must 'ust let tom respond. the thin . i mustjust let tom respond. the thin is, i mustjust let tom respond. the thing is, tim. — i mustjust let tom respond. tia: thing is, tim, those i mustjust let tom respond. t'ta: thing is, tim, those measures i mustjust let tom respond. tta: thing is, tim, those measures i think taking forward our delivery on precisely the thing you want to see. you want to see a fall in migration. we have lived in unprecedented times. we have rightly been very generous in response to various international crises. the experts say are needed, the numbers before quite considerably. with our measures that are seeing before we anticipated, that 300,000, they are coming down more and more... it is coming down more and more... it is like an emperor's — coming down more and more... it is like an emperor's new clothes moment _ moment. nigel farage has said the moment. — nigel farage has said the emperors and immigration have no clothes. we are _ and immigration have no clothes. we are going to talk about that in detail, but first of all... i don't understand howl detail, but first of all... i don't understand how i vote for idon't understand how i vote for nigel— i don't understand how i vote for nigel farage _ i don't understand how i vote for nigel farage is _ i don't understand how i vote for nigel farage is a _ i don't understand how i vote for nigel farage is a protest - i don't understand how i vote for nigel farage is a protest vote, . nigel farage is a protest vote, because — nigel farage is a protest vote, because having _ nigel farage is a protest vote, because having the _ nigel farage is a protest vote, because having the tories - nigel farage is a protest vote, because having the tories arei nigel farage is a protest vote, - because having the tories are doing i’ili'it because having the tories are doing right now— because having the tories are doing right now has — because having the tories are doing right now has been _ because having the tories are doing right now has been in _ because having the tories are doing right now has been in part- because having the tories are doing right now has been in part directedl right now has been in part directed lry right now has been in part directed by nigel— right now has been in part directed by nigel farage _ right now has been in part directed by nigel farage and _ right now has been in part directed by nigel farage and his— right now has been in part directed by nigel farage and his pressure . by nigel farage and his pressure cooker~ — by nigel farage and his pressure cooker~ he — by nigel farage and his pressure cooker. he has— by nigel farage and his pressure cooker. he has been— by nigel farage and his pressure cooker. he has been in- by nigel farage and his pressure cooker. he has been in politics l cooker. he has been in politics since _ cooker. he has been in politics since the — cooker. he has been in politics since the 1990s, _ cooker. he has been in politics since the 1990s, pushing - cooker. he has been in politics since the 1990s, pushing the l cooker. he has been in politics - since the 1990s, pushing the single issues _ since the 1990s, pushing the single issues again— since the 1990s, pushing the single issues again and _ since the 1990s, pushing the single issues again and again. _ since the 1990s, pushing the single issues again and again. before - since the 1990s, pushing the single issues again and again. before the i issues again and again. before the brexit— issues again and again. before the brexit party. — issues again and again. before the brexit party. it _ issues again and again. before the brexit party, it was _ issues again and again. before the brexit party, it was you _ issues again and again. before the brexit party, it was you kept, - brexit party, it was you kept, before — brexit party, it was you kept, before reform, _ brexit party, it was you kept, before reform, it _ brexit party, it was you kept, before reform, it was - brexit party, it was you kept, before reform, it was the - brexit party, it was you kept, i before reform, it was the brexit party~ _ before reform, it was the brexit party. the — before reform, it was the brexit party. the tories _ before reform, it was the brexit party. the tories are _ before reform, it was the brexit party. the tories are backed - before reform, it was the brexit| party. the tories are backed into before reform, it was the brexit . party. the tories are backed into a corner— party. the tories are backed into a corner on— party. the tories are backed into a corner on their—

party. the tories are backed into a corner on their migration - party. the tories are backed into a corner on their migration policy- corner on their migration policy because — corner on their migration policy because of— corner on their migration policy because of nigel— corner on their migration policy because of nigel farage, - corner on their migration policy because of nigel farage, and l corner on their migration policy. because of nigel farage, and then corner on their migration policy- because of nigel farage, and then he -ets because of nigel farage, and then he gets to _ because of nigel farage, and then he gets to come — because of nigel farage, and then he gets to come along _ because of nigel farage, and then he gets to come along and _ because of nigel farage, and then he gets to come along and use - because of nigel farage, and then he gets to come along and use say - because of nigel farage, and then he gets to come along and use say this i gets to come along and use say this is a protest — gets to come along and use say this is a protest vote? _ gets to come along and use say this is a protest vote? it _ gets to come along and use say this is a protest vote? it is _ gets to come along and use say this is a protest vote? it is not. - gets to come along and use say this is a protest vote? it is not. you - is a protest vote? it is not. you are voting — is a protest vote? it is not. you are voting for _ is a protest vote? it is not. you are voting for the _ is a protest vote? it is not. you are voting for the same - is a protest vote? it is not. you are voting for the same thing . is a protest vote? it is not. you - are voting for the same thing again and again— are voting for the same thing again and again and _ are voting for the same thing again and again and again. _ are voting for the same thing again and again and again. it— are voting for the same thing again and again and again. it will- are voting for the same thing again and again and again. it will never. and again and again. it will never be enough — and again and again. it will never be enough. first, _ and again and again. it will never be enough. first, it— and again and again. it will never be enough. first, it was - and again and again. it will never be enough. first, it was brexit, i and again and again. it will never. be enough. first, it was brexit, and then, _ be enough. first, it was brexit, and then, oh. _ be enough. first, it was brexit, and then, oh. it — be enough. first, it was brexit, and then, oh, it wasn't _ be enough. first, it was brexit, and then, oh, it wasn't delivered - then, oh, it wasn't delivered properly. _ then, oh, it wasn't delivered properly. now— then, oh, it wasn't delivered properly. now it— then, oh, it wasn't delivered properly, now it will- then, oh, it wasn't delivered properly, now it will be - then, oh, it wasn't delivered properly, now it will be the i then, oh, it wasn't delivered| properly, now it will be the e then, oh, it wasn't delivered - properly, now it will be the e hcr. when _ properly, now it will be the e hcr. when will— properly, now it will be the e hcr. when will he — properly, now it will be the e hcr. when will he stop? _ properly, now it will be the e hcr. when will he stop? he _ properly, now it will be the e hcr. when will he stop? he has - properly, now it will be the e hcr. when will he stop? he has a - properly, now it will be the e hcr. i when will he stop? he has a constant wrecker. _ when will he stop? he has a constant wrecker. the — when will he stop? he has a constant wrecker, the idea _ when will he stop? he has a constant wrecker, the idea he _ when will he stop? he has a constant wrecker, the idea he will— when will he stop? he has a constant wrecker, the idea he will deliver- wrecker, the idea he will deliver what _ wrecker, the idea he will deliver what is — wrecker, the idea he will deliver what is best— wrecker, the idea he will deliver what is best for— wrecker, the idea he will deliver what is best for britain - wrecker, the idea he will deliver what is best for britain when - wrecker, the idea he will deliver what is best for britain when he| wrecker, the idea he will deliver- what is best for britain when he and reform _ what is best for britain when he and reform have — what is best for britain when he and reform have no— what is best for britain when he and reform have no ideas— what is best for britain when he and reform have no ideas beyond - what is best for britain when he and reform have no ideas beyond a - what is best for britain when he and . reform have no ideas beyond a single issue. _ reform have no ideas beyond a single issue. no— reform have no ideas beyond a single issue, no coherent _ reform have no ideas beyond a single issue, no coherent ideology, - reform have no ideas beyond a single issue, no coherent ideology, is- issue, no coherent ideology, is actually— issue, no coherent ideology, is actually laughable. _ issue, no coherent ideology, is actually laughable. it's - issue, no coherent ideology, is. actually laughable. it's upsetting. infrastructure _ actually laughable. it's upsetting. infrastructure is _ actually laughable. it's upsetting. infrastructure is rotting, - actually laughable. it's upsetting. infrastructure is rotting, and - actually laughable. it's upsetting. infrastructure is rotting, and he . infrastructure is rotting, and he ism _ is... him| - him respond. it will be enough when we control immigration. do it will be enough when we control immigration-— it will be enough when we control immiaration. ., ., .., ., immigration. do we not have control? we took control _ immigration. do we not have control? we took control back! _ we took control back! the _ we took control back! the conservative - we took control back! i the conservative party we took control back! _ the conservative party promised control— the conservative party promised control of— the conservative party promised control of immigration. what _ control of immigration. what more do you want! i what more do you want! i want _ what more do you want! i want delivery. - i want delivery. let's _ i want delivery. let's talk about whether delivery is possible. it hasn't been so up until now, by your own metrics, and that spring in reform uk's deputy leader david bull, because nigel farage

announced when he was standing that he called the election the immigration election. well, he would say that, reform would say that. he wants net migration to be zero, so in other words, the number of people leaving the country would be equal to those coming in. how can it be done? good to see you. listening to all of you on the panel, apart from tim, actually, there is a massive disconnect between what you are saying, the metropolitan elite are saying, the metropolitan elite are saying, and what people are saying in the country. people are sick and tired of the fact they don't recognise this country, and when we hear from tom things like, recognise this country, and when we hearfrom tom things like, oh, immigration is coming down, well, the record has been woeful, and everything is attached to immigration. i everything is attached to immigration. lam everything is attached to immigration. i am a doctor by training. the health service simply cannot cope. we have 20 million people and a primary and secondary waiting list, no one can get any houses built, they can't afford to go to a home, the cost of living has increased the schools are oversubscribed, so everything essentially comes back to

immigration. now, just looking at this picture is from clacton, nigel is being greeted as a hero. his latest popularity ratings amongst our voters are higher than the king himself. �* , ., , himself. don't underestimate us. hana on, himself. don't underestimate us. hang on. i _ himself. don't underestimate us. hang on. i want _ himself. don't underestimate us. hang on, i want to _ himself. don't underestimate us. hang on, i want to get _ himself. don't underestimate us. hang on, i want to get tom - himself. don't underestimate us. hang on, i want to get tom to i hang on, i want to get tom to respond first of all to your claims and bringing down levels of migration. this is yourfault. non—delivery migration. this is your fault. non—delivery of the promises you made. the this is your fault. non-delivery of the promises you made.— this is your fault. non-delivery of the promises you made. the fact is, david, we the promises you made. the fact is, david. we have _ the promises you made. the fact is, david, we have a _ the promises you made. the fact is, david, we have a package _ the promises you made. the fact is, david, we have a package of - the promises you made. the fact is, i david, we have a package of measures that will— david, we have a package of measures that will reduce net migration by 300,000. the stats are out, month to soaooo. — the stats are out, month to month. what _ the stats are out, month to month. what we're — the stats are out, month to month. what we're seeing is a fall, for example. _ what we're seeing is a fall, for example, a student dependence down by 80%~~ _ example, a student dependence down by 80%... but example, a student dependence down b 8096. .. �* , example, a student dependence down b 80%... �* , , ., example, a student dependence down b 80%...�* , ., by 8096. .. but this is all legal migration. — by 8096... but this is all legal migration, so _ by 8096... but this is all legal migration, so it _ by 8096... but this is all legal migration, so it went - by 8096... but this is all legal migration, so it went from i by 8096... but this is all legal- migration, so it went from 745,000 to 685,000. you say the plan is no plan. to 685,000. you say the plan is no lan. �* to 685,000. you say the plan is no ian, �* ., , ., , to 685,000. you say the plan is no lan. �* . , ., , ., plan. but we have quite rightly as a count to plan. but we have quite rightly as a country to crises _ plan. but we have quite rightly as a country to crises in _ plan. but we have quite rightly as a country to crises in ukraine, - plan. but we have quite rightly as a country to crises in ukraine, the i country to crises in ukraine, the situation — country to crises in ukraine, the situation in _ country to crises in ukraine, the situation in afghanistan and hong kongm _ situation in afghanistan and hong kong... we saw the need for additional— kong... we saw the need for additional health care and social care workers, and this right we provided — care workers, and this right we provided that force. the experts say the numbers will fall organically now _ the numbers will fall organically now but — the numbers will fall organically now. but with our measures, it goes

even _ now. but with our measures, it goes even further. — now. but with our measures, it goes even further, the evidence is clear. 25% reduction. but what is your message to the voter who cannot see a doctor, who cannot get housing, who feels infrastructure in this country is falling apart? nigel quite rightly said yesterday nothing works in this country. 0k, well, let tom respond. no goes further than 300,000, taking further account — no goes further than 300,000, taking further account of _ no goes further than 300,000, taking further account of those _ no goes further than 300,000, taking further account of those factors. i further account of those factors. the immigration advisory committees never— the immigration advisory committees never looked every year at all the relevant — never looked every year at all the relevant factors in terms of pressures on housing, health, the needs— pressures on housing, health, the needs of— pressures on housing, health, the needs of the economy but we also want _ needs of the economy but we also want to— needs of the economy but we also want to focus on employment. you are a hirh want to focus on employment. you are a high migration _ want to focus on employment. you are a high migration party, _ want to focus on employment. you are a high migration party, that _ want to focus on employment. you are a high migration party, that may- want to focus on employment. you are a high migration party, that may be i a high migration party, that may be a high migration party, that may be a good thing but you are a high migration party because you have not met any of the promises that you have made, rightly or wrongly. the majority of people coming here are coming on work visas, illegal

migration, because there are shortages in various parts of the workforce. —— legal migration. why would anyone trust you if they want to see to bring down levels of net migration. late to see to bring down levels of net miaration. ~ . ., ., to see to bring down levels of net miaration. ~ . . ., , ., ., migration. we have an actual plan to do it, and migration. we have an actual plan to do it. and we — migration. we have an actual plan to do it, and we will— migration. we have an actual plan to do it, and we will lose _ migration. we have an actual plan to do it, and we will lose those - migration. we have an actual plan to do it, and we will lose those levers l do it, and we will lose those levers if we _ do it, and we will lose those levers if we backslide on brexit. those changes — if we backslide on brexit. those changes that i have announced... the rwanda policy, that is where... and that. _ rwanda policy, that is where... and that. that _ rwanda policy, that is where... and that. that isn't _ rwanda policy, that is where... and that, that isn't even _ rwanda policy, that is where... and that, that isn't even going - rwanda policy, that is where... and that, that isn't even going to - rwanda policy, that is where... and that, that isn't even going to be i that, that isn't even going to be tested _ that, that isn't even going to be tested before _ that, that isn't even going to be tested before the _ that, that isn't even going to be tested before the election. i that, that isn't even going to be tested before the election. let. that, that isn't even going to be tested before the election. let me come to harriet. _ tested before the election. let me come to harriet. something i tested before the election. let me come to harriet. something said l come to harriet. something said there about _ come to harriet. something said there about the _ come to harriet. something said there about the nhs, _ come to harriet. something said there about the nhs, talking i come to harriet. something said i there about the nhs, talking about there about the nhs, talking about the pressures on it, take midwives for example, there are more people from abroad helping deliver our babies than there are much of the migrants having babies. and if you want to have more midwives who are actually from this country and trained in this country we need to provide bursaries which the tories abolished, we need to provide

childcare, there are those of women who want to train to be midwives but thatis who want to train to be midwives but that is all being cut away, and as a result and thank god they have come to help us, but actually you have got to have a plan to train up and support the workforce, and as i say, there are more people actually standing by helping hospital beds then there are immigrants lying in them so thank you to the immigrants for the nhs and let's train some more doctors ourselves. mar; for the nhs and let's train some more doctors ourselves.- more doctors ourselves. may i counter that? _ more doctors ourselves. may i counter that? we _ more doctors ourselves. may i counter that? we only - more doctors ourselves. may i counter that? we only have i more doctors ourselves. may i i counter that? we only have 123,000 doctors. _ counter that? we only have 123,000 doctors. 8800 — counter that? we only have 123,000 doctors, 8800 gigabytess _ counter that? we only have 123,000 doctors, 8800 gigabytess are - counter that? we only have 123,000 doctors, 8800 gigabytess are goingl doctors, 8800 gigabytess are going to leave. _ doctors, 8800 gigabytess are going to leave. by— doctors, 8800 gigabytess are going to leave, by 2030. _ doctors, 8800 gigabytess are going to leave, by 2030. now, _ doctors, 8800 gigabytess are going to leave, by 2030. now, the - doctors, 8800 gigabytess are going to leave, by 2030. now, the cap. doctors, 8800 gigabytess are goingi to leave, by 2030. now, the cap has been _ to leave, by 2030. now, the cap has been increased — to leave, by 2030. now, the cap has been increased by— to leave, by 2030. now, the cap has been increased by the _ to leave, by 2030. now, the cap has been increased by the government. i to leave, by 2030. now, the cap has. been increased by the government. we need to— been increased by the government. we need to train _ been increased by the government. we need to train more _ been increased by the government. we need to train more of— been increased by the government. we need to train more of our— been increased by the government. we need to train more of our own - need to train more of our own people — need to train more of our own --eole. ., need to train more of our own teo tle, ., ., need to train more of our own --eole. ., ., ., need to train more of our own neale, ., ., ., ., ~' m people. how long will that take? it is a contract. _ people. how long will that take? it is a contract, not _ people. how long will that take? it is a contract, not a _ people. how long will that take? it is a contract, not a manifesto i people. how long will that take? it is a contract, not a manifesto we l is a contract, not a manifesto we have. _ is a contract, not a manifesto we have. we — is a contract, not a manifesto we have. we want _ is a contract, not a manifesto we have. we want to _ is a contract, not a manifesto we have, we want to take _ is a contract, not a manifesto we have, we want to take all- is a contract, not a manifesto we i have, we want to take all front—line medical— have, we want to take all front—line medical staff. — have, we want to take all front—line medical staff, nursing _ have, we want to take all front—line medical staff, nursing staff, - medical staff, nursing staff, doctors. _ medical staff, nursing staff, doctors, out _ medical staff, nursing staff, doctors, out of _ medical staff, nursing staff, doctors, out of the - medical staff, nursing staff, doctors, out of the basic- medical staff, nursing staff, i doctors, out of the basic rate of tax _ doctors, out of the basic rate of tax we — doctors, out of the basic rate of tax. we believe _ doctors, out of the basic rate of tax. we believe that _ doctors, out of the basic rate of tax. we believe that as - doctors, out of the basic rate of tax. we believe that as a - doctors, out of the basic rate of tax. we believe that as a pay. doctors, out of the basic rate of i tax. we believe that as a pay rise of about — tax. we believe that as a pay rise of about 6% — tax. we believe that as a pay rise of about 6% overnight. _ tax. we believe that as a pay rise of about 6% overnight. i - tax. we believe that as a pay rise of about 6% overnight. i agree i tax. we believe that as a pay rise l of about 6% overnight. i agree with

habitat _ of about 6% overnight. i agree with habitat in _ of about 6% overnight. i agree with habitat in the — of about 6% overnight. i agree with habitat in the interim, _ of about 6% overnight. i agree with habitat in the interim, we - of about 6% overnight. i agree with habitat in the interim, we have i of about 6% overnight. i agree with habitat in the interim, we have to i habitat in the interim, we have to import— habitat in the interim, we have to import people _ habitat in the interim, we have to import people from _ habitat in the interim, we have to import people from abroad - habitat in the interim, we have to import people from abroad but. habitat in the interim, we have to| import people from abroad but we have nine — import people from abroad but we have nine men— import people from abroad but we have nine men —— _ import people from abroad but we have nine men —— 9— import people from abroad but we have nine men —— 9 million- import people from abroad but we| have nine men —— 9 million people who are _ have nine men —— 9 million people who are economically _ have nine men —— 9 million people who are economically inactive i have nine men —— 9 million people who are economically inactive in i who are economically inactive in this country _ who are economically inactive in this country. that... _ who are economically inactive in this country. that. . ._ this country. that... david, you have just _ this country. that... david, you have just admitted _ this country. that... david, you have just admitted that - this country. that... david, you have just admitted that we i this country. that... david, you have just admitted that we still| have just admitted that we still need labourfrom have just admitted that we still need labour from abroad have just admitted that we still need labourfrom abroad because there are shortages. nigel farage has said perhaps you will have to live with them, are you going to sell that to constituents, say that we will live without midwives or care workers, or the requisite number of all sorts of trades that are intrinsic to the economy? late number of all sorts of trades that are intrinsic to the economy? we did not say that- — are intrinsic to the economy? we did not say that- we _ are intrinsic to the economy? we did not say that. we said _ are intrinsic to the economy? we did not say that. we said there - are intrinsic to the economy? we did not say that. we said there is - are intrinsic to the economy? we did not say that. we said there is a i not say that. we said there is a transition — not say that. we said there is a transition period. _ not say that. we said there is a transition period. the - not say that. we said there is a transition period. the point i not say that. we said there is a transition period. the point is i transition period. the point is really— transition period. the point is really valid _ transition period. the point is really valid which _ transition period. the point is really valid which is, - transition period. the point is really valid which is, when i transition period. the point isi really valid which is, when you transition period. the point is - really valid which is, when you have nine people — really valid which is, when you have nine people -- _ really valid which is, when you have nine people -- 9— really valid which is, when you have nine people —— 9 million— really valid which is, when you have nine people —— 9 million people i nine people —— 9 million people economically— nine people —— 9 million people economically inactive _ nine people —— 9 million people economically inactive in - nine people —— 9 million people economically inactive in this i economically inactive in this country— economically inactive in this country something - economically inactive in this country something is - country something is going desperately— country something is going desperately wrong. - country something is going desperately wrong. i- country something is going desperately wrong. i want i country something is going i desperately wrong. i want to country something is going - desperately wrong. i want to see social— desperately wrong. i want to see social care — desperately wrong. i want to see social care workers _ desperately wrong. i want to see social care workers paid - desperately wrong. i want to see social care workers paid more, . social care workers paid more, doctors — social care workers paid more, doctors and _ social care workers paid more, doctors and nurses _ social care workers paid more, doctors and nurses paid - social care workers paid more, doctors and nurses paid more. j social care workers paid more, i doctors and nurses paid more. i social care workers paid more, - doctors and nurses paid more. i know what it— doctors and nurses paid more. i know what it is— doctors and nurses paid more. i know what it is like — doctors and nurses paid more. i know what it is like to _ doctors and nurses paid more. i know what it is like to be _ doctors and nurses paid more. i know what it is like to be a _ doctors and nurses paid more. i know what it is like to be a junior— what it is like to be a junior doctor~ _ what it is like to be a junior doctor~ it _ what it is like to be a junior doctor. it is _ what it is like to be a junior doctor. it is hideous- what it is like to be a junior doctor. it is hideous at- what it is like to be a junior doctor. it is hideous at the| what it is like to be a junior- doctor. it is hideous at the best of times. _ doctor. it is hideous at the best of times. so— doctor. it is hideous at the best of times. so we _ doctor. it is hideous at the best of times, so we need _ doctor. it is hideous at the best of times, so we need to _ doctor. it is hideous at the best of times, so we need to look- doctor. it is hideous at the best of times, so we need to look after. doctor. it is hideous at the best of. times, so we need to look after them and needs— times, so we need to look after them and needs to — times, so we need to look after them and needs to be — times, so we need to look after them and needs to be pastoral— times, so we need to look after them and needs to be pastoral care. -

times, so we need to look after them and needs to be pastoral care. nigell and needs to be pastoral care. nigel farare said and needs to be pastoral care. nigel farage said on _ and needs to be pastoral care. nigel farage said on the _ and needs to be pastoral care. farage said on the today and needs to be pastoral care.- farage said on the today programme that he _ farage said on the today programme that he wanted a cut legal migration to zero. _ that he wanted a cut legal migration to zero, and he also could not define — to zero, and he also could not define what a skilled worker was. what _ define what a skilled worker was. what he — define what a skilled worker was. what he said yesterday was nothing works _ what he said yesterday was nothing works in _ what he said yesterday was nothing works in this country. he said infrastructure is broken, correct, but if— infrastructure is broken, correct, but if you — infrastructure is broken, correct, but if you look at the workers we are sure — but if you look at the workers we are sure of. _ but if you look at the workers we are sure of, they are all people vital— are sure of, they are all people vital to— are sure of, they are all people vital to the _ are sure of, they are all people vital to the infrastructure of this country — vital to the infrastructure of this country. david, let me finish. in the financial times today there was a report— the financial times today there was a report about new infrastructure projects. — a report about new infrastructure projects, ranging from data centres to wind _ projects, ranging from data centres to wind farms to building new homes are being _ to wind farms to building new homes are being held up bya to wind farms to building new homes are being held up by a shortage of construction workers. and if you look— construction workers. and if you look at — construction workers. and if you look at the — construction workers. and if you look at the manchester live arena, the owner — look at the manchester live arena, the owner of that said the reason we've _ the owner of that said the reason we've not— the owner of that said the reason we've not been able to open, they paid workers two times in three times— paid workers two times in three times more than a normal rate and they couldn't find people because there _ they couldn't find people because there are — they couldn't find people because there are hundreds of thousands of people _ there are hundreds of thousands of people short, we don't have the apprenticeships, the training, so...

why should — apprenticeships, the training, so... why should people trust labour on their pledge to bring down significantly, yvette cooper said significantly, yvette cooper said significantly, the shadow home secretary, to bring down significantly levels of net migration?— significantly levels of net miaration? , ., ., significantly levels of net miaration? �* , ., ., migration? because we have a plan for trainin: migration? because we have a plan for training and _ migration? because we have a plan for training and apprenticeships i migration? because we have a plan| for training and apprenticeships and skills so that people who are economically inactive at the moment and want to be actually able to work can do thosejobs. and want to be actually able to work can do those jobs. mb? and want to be actually able to work can do those jobs.— can do those 'obs. why not put a number on — can do those jobs. why not put a number on it? _ can do those jobs. why not put a number on it? 100,000? - can do those jobs. why not put a number on it? 100,000? we - can do those jobs. why not put a| number on it? 100,000? we will can do those jobs. why not put a - number on it? 100,000? we will not ut a number on it? 100,000? we will not put a number — number on it? 100,000? we will not put a number on _ number on it? 100,000? we will not put a number on it. _ number on it? 100,000? we will not put a number on it. can _ number on it? 100,000? we will not put a number on it. can i _ number on it? 100,000? we will not put a number on it. can i say - put a number on it. can i say something about david's back to the 19505... something about david's back to the 19505. .. ~ ., , something about david's back to the 1950s... e c, , _, something about david's back to the 1950s... e c, , ,., c, something about david's back to the 1950s... e c, , ,., .,, 1950s... what is your plan to bring down those _ 1950s... what is your plan to bring down those levels _ 1950s... what is your plan to bring down those levels of _ 1950s... what is your plan to bring down those levels of net _ 1950s... what is your plan to bring l down those levels of net migration? labour will draw up skill improvement plans and high migration sectors. ~ ., ., , ., improvement plans and high migration sectors. ., ., , ., ., |t sectors. what does that mean? it means investment _ sectors. what does that mean? it means investment in _ sectors. what does that mean? it means investment in people, - means investment in people, training, training infrastructure, and there had been a cap on the

number of doctors, the abolition of midwives' bursaries, there is no skills training for people in the building industry and the reason we are not putting a cap on it is because it will not be possible to see immediately what those are going to be and we are not going to make promises that we cannot keep like the tories did in 2010, 2016, 2019. from the labour party there is a package — from the labour party there is a package of— from the labour party there is a package of measures, all of those measures— package of measures, all of those measures are in—flight, bringing the numbers_ measures are in—flight, bringing the numbers down, will you stick to them, _ numbers down, will you stick to them, will— numbers down, will you stick to them, will you see that package through. — them, will you see that package through, the later stages of it? i would _ through, the later stages of it? i would hope you would park there is no visibility — would hope you would park there is no visibility on your plan and that at all. _ no visibility on your plan and that at all. yes— no visibility on your plan and that at all, yes or no, it is really simple _ at all, yes or no, it is really simple i_ at all, yes or no, it is really simle. at all, yes or no, it is really simple-— at all, yes or no, it is really simle. ., ., simple. i find it quite odd, and i sympathise _ simple. i find it quite odd, and i sympathise with _ simple. i find it quite odd, and i sympathise with your _ simple. i find it quite odd, and i sympathise with your position, l simple. i find it quite odd, and i- sympathise with your position, torn, and i know that you have done... what it is, the tories have got no basis or credibility to challenge us, when they have done the absolute

opposite of everything they would say they were going to do. you asked me the question, and i'm sure that you do a greatjob as a radio interviewer, but as a minister you have not delivered to the people what you promise. that have not delivered to the people what you promise.— what you promise. that is a very o “aue what you promise. that is a very opaque answer. _ what you promise. that is a very opaque answer. tens _ what you promise. that is a very opaque answer. tens of- what you promise. that is a very i opaque answer. tens of thousands, and it was up _ opaque answer. tens of thousands, and it was up to _ opaque answer. tens of thousands, and it was up to 700,000. - opaque answer. tens of thousands, and it was up to 700,000. that - opaque answer. tens of thousands, and it was up to 700,000. that is l and it was up to 700,000. that is just... and it was up to 700,000. that is 'ust. .. ., and it was up to 700,000. that is 'ust. .. . ., _, and it was up to 700,000. that is 'ust... . ., ,, ., and it was up to 700,000. that is 'ust... . ., ., ., just... harriet dart do you want to brina just... harriet dart do you want to bring numbers _ just... harriet dart do you want to bring numbers down? _ just... harriet dart do you want to bring numbers down? you - just... harriet dart do you want to bring numbers down? you made l just... harriet dart do you want toj bring numbers down? you made a passionate defence of the fact that without the midwives that were brought in from abroad wouldn't function, why do you want to break it down, why don't you make the argument for higher migration levels? ., ., , ., levels? there are mothers here who have had their _ levels? there are mothers here who have had their kids _ levels? there are mothers here who have had their kids and _ levels? there are mothers here who have had their kids and want - levels? there are mothers here who have had their kids and want to - levels? there are mothers here who have had their kids and want to get l have had their kids and want to get back into work who have a passion to me a midwife, they want to have child care, training bursary, and they can't. let me say something about the 1950s and form thing. net migration, we are in a globalised

world. britain, to prosper, needs to be part of the international world. i remember the 1950s. we couldn't have all of oil except as something for your throat and the chemist. it was a very narrow, introspective you. was a very narrow, introspective ou. ~ ., ., ., ., was a very narrow, introspective ou. . . ., ., ., we was a very narrow, introspective i you-_ we have was a very narrow, introspective ou. . . ., ., ., we have to you. we have to move on. we have to be international. _ you. we have to move on. we have to be international. the _ you. we have to move on. we have to be international. the fact _ you. we have to move on. we have to be international. the fact is _ you. we have to move on. we have to be international. the fact is there - be international. the fact is there was no target. — be international. the fact is there was no target, no _ be international. the fact is there was no target, no credible - be international. the fact is there was no target, no credible plan i was no target, no credible plan about— was no target, no credible plan about reducing net migration and we know what— about reducing net migration and we know what the instincts of the party are, keir— know what the instincts of the party are, keirstarmerwas very are, keir starmer was very clear about— are, keir starmer was very clear about that _ are, keir starmer was very clear about that-— are, keir starmer was very clear about that. , ., ., ., about that. david, you and reform are advocating _ about that. david, you and reform are advocating the _ about that. david, you and reform are advocating the uk _ about that. david, you and reform are advocating the uk leaves - about that. david, you and reform are advocating the uk leaves the l are advocating the uk leaves the european convention on human rights, thatis european convention on human rights, that is correct?— european convention on human rights, that is correct? yes. will that be in our that is correct? yes. will that be in your manifesto, _ that is correct? yes. will that be in your manifesto, tom? - that is correct? yes. will that be in your manifesto, tom? we - that is correct? yes. will that be. in your manifesto, tom? we have that is correct? yes. will that be i in your manifesto, tom? we have a leaislative in your manifesto, tom? we have a legislative basis _ in your manifesto, tom? we have a legislative basis to _ in your manifesto, tom? we have a legislative basis to deliver - in your manifesto, tom? we have a legislative basis to deliver the - legislative basis to deliver the flights— legislative basis to deliver the flights to rwanda.— legislative basis to deliver the flights to rwanda. that is not my cuestion, flights to rwanda. that is not my question, would _ flights to rwanda. that is not my question, would you _ flights to rwanda. that is not my question, would you like - flights to rwanda. that is not my question, would you like to - flights to rwanda. that is not my question, would you like to see l flights to rwanda. that is not my i question, would you like to see the uk leaving the echr is part of your

manifesto? i uk leaving the echr is part of your manifesto? ., �* ~' uk leaving the echr is part of your manifesto? ., �* ~ ., , manifesto? i don't think that is necessary. _ manifesto? i don't think that is necessary. we _ manifesto? i don't think that is necessary, we have _ manifesto? i don't think that is necessary, we have a - manifesto? i don't think that is l necessary, we have a legislative basis _ necessary, we have a legislative basis upon — necessary, we have a legislative basis upon which we can deliver the rewind _ basis upon which we can deliver the rewind of— basis upon which we can deliver the rewind of flights, injuly basis upon which we can deliver the rewind of flights, in july that will happen, — rewind of flights, in july that will happen, if— rewind of flights, in july that will happen, if we are not in government they will— happen, if we are not in government they will be — happen, if we are not in government they will be scrapped. that is not they will be scrapped. that is not the right— they will be scrapped. that is not the right answer. david bull, thank you for— the right answer. david bull, thank you forjoining us from reform. let you for 'oining us from reform. let me you forjoining us from reform. let me show you forjoining us from reform. me show you you forjoining us from reform. let me show you the candidates standing so for —— so far, in clacton in essex. we are going to talk about social care. parties of all stripes have promised to fix and reform it. it has not really been spoken about by then main parties but today on bbc news,... the introduced free personal care in england, a similar system to the one that operates currently in scotland. we can speak to daisy cooper, the lib dems deputy leader who speaks for the party on health and social care. what is your plan, specifically? indie health and social care. what is your plan. specifically?— plan, specifically? we all know that social care is _ plan, specifically? we all know that social care is in _ plan, specifically? we all know that

social care is in crisis. _ plan, specifically? we all know that social care is in crisis. and - plan, specifically? we all know that social care is in crisis. and there . social care is in crisis. and there are millions of unpaid carers around the country picking up the pieces. we are pledging a big and bold proposal to introduce free personal care for older people and disabled adults who need support with things like having a boss in the morning, taking their medication, getting out of bed and getting dressed for the day. these are the things that people really need and we know that around the country there are more than 1 around the country there are more thani million people who have unmet care needs. than1 million people who have unmet care needs. ., . ., , , ., care needs. how much does the plan cost? it has — care needs. how much does the plan cost? it has been _ care needs. how much does the plan cost? it has been estimated - care needs. how much does the plan cost? it has been estimated the - cost? it has been estimated the overall cost _ cost? it has been estimated the overall cost would _ cost? it has been estimated the overall cost would be _ cost? it has been estimated the overall cost would be £6.2 - cost? it has been estimated the i overall cost would be £6.2 billion. the government plan accounts for about 3.7 billion of that and that is why we are pledging an additional £2.7 billion on top of that to cover the additional cost that would be needed to meet... haifa the additional cost that would be needed to meet. . ._ needed to meet... how are you findin: needed to meet... how are you finding that? — needed to meet... how are you finding that? we _ needed to meet... how are you finding that? we would - needed to meet... how are you finding that? we would reverse| needed to meet... how are you - finding that? we would reverse the conservatives' _ finding that? we would reverse the conservatives' tax _ finding that? we would reverse the conservatives' tax cuts _ finding that? we would reverse the conservatives' tax cuts for -

finding that? we would reverse the conservatives' tax cuts for the - finding that? we would reverse the conservatives' tax cuts for the big i conservatives' tax cuts for the big banks so the conservatives have given a big giveaway to the big banks, who are making billions of pounds in profits, and if we can reverse those tax cuts to the big banks, then we can fully fund this particular place. the banks, then we can fully fund this particular place-— particular place. the nuffield trust, dlthink_ particular place. the nuffield trust, dl think tank - particular place. the nuffield trust, dl think tank suggest | particular place. the nuffield - trust, dl think tank suggest that the costings we have outlined, the personal care pledge and the value making to raise the pay of care workers looks inadequate, what do you say? workers looks inadequate, what do ou sa ? �* ., , ., you say? i've not seen that particular— you say? i've not seen that particular criticism - you say? i've not seen that particular criticism but - you say? i've not seen that particular criticism but we | you say? i've not seen that - particular criticism but we have done our research on this, the health foundation estimated it would cost 6.2 billion and our pledge is additional money that would get us to that figure. we think our estimates are quite conservative, quite cautious, because we have not factored in the enormous savings that could be made to the nhs budget, which we think it save more than £3 billion by making sure that this system is in place, with proper, free personal care you can support people in independence and

dignity and prevent them from going to hospital in the first place, but we need to get them out of hospital when they knew longer need to be there. �* , ., , when they knew longer need to be there. �* i. , , . there. are you still expecting eo - le there. are you still expecting people to _ there. are you still expecting people to sell _ there. are you still expecting people to sell their— there. are you still expecting people to sell their homes i there. are you still expecting people to sell their homes to there. are you still expecting - people to sell their homes to pay for residential adult social care? so what we have said is that this free personal care pledge would apply to anyone whether they are in their own home care home, but we have thrown down the gauntlet to the other political parties and said, immediately after the general election, we need to have a cross—party commission, come together and get around the table and agree a plan for social care. that would be another one. there have been so many attempts by conservatives and labour to bring in a social care programme. the bbc has been asking viewers to get in touch with questions they might have a politician throughout the election campaign. one that came through the bbc your voice, your vote, ian from derbyshire wants to know, and i will

protesting the conservative minister, tom first love, what additionalfunding are minister, tom first love, what additional funding are you minister, tom first love, what additionalfunding are you going to provide for the care sector and social care? —— tom pursglove. irate social care? -- tom pursglove. we ut in social care? -- tom pursglove. we put in place — social care? -- tom pursglove. we put in place 9 _ social care? —— tom pursglove. we put in place 9 billion aircraft or social— put in place 9 billion aircraft or social care _ put in place 9 billion aircraft or social care focusing on discharge and making sure there is support available, — and making sure there is support available, making localised tailored solutions _ available, making localised tailored solutions. . . available, making localised tailored solutions. ., , ., , , solutions. there have been massive cuts to local — solutions. there have been massive cuts to local authorities _ solutions. there have been massive cuts to local authorities in _ solutions. there have been massive cuts to local authorities in terms - cuts to local authorities in terms of being able to provide social care. it of being able to provide social care. . of being able to provide social care. , ,., ., of being able to provide social care. , ., .,, of being able to provide social care. , ., ., , ., care. it is important to put extra resources _ care. it is important to put extra resources in _ care. it is important to put extra resources in and _ care. it is important to put extra resources in and there _ care. it is important to put extra resources in and there was - care. it is important to put extra resources in and there was a - care. it is important to put extra resources in and there was a big j resources in and there was a big focus _ resources in and there was a big focus on — resources in and there was a big focus on retention and recruitment on the _ focus on retention and recruitment on the workforce aside at the uncosted _ on the workforce aside at the uncosted challenges, day to day, additional— uncosted challenges, day to day, additional £9 billion has gone on, but we _ additional £9 billion has gone on, but we will come forward and build on those _ but we will come forward and build on those policies and steps we have already— on those policies and steps we have already taken in the manifesto. lib dems already taken in the manifesto. dems say already taken in the manifesto. l n dems say that it is a crisis. why isn't labour making this front and centre of the campaign? lt isn't labour making this front and centre of the campaign? it is isn't labour making this front and centre of the campaign? it is good that daisy has _ centre of the campaign? it is good that daisy has raised _ centre of the campaign? it is good that daisy has raised this - centre of the campaign? it is good that daisy has raised this and - centre of the campaign? it is good

that daisy has raised this and we | that daisy has raised this and we need a cross—party approach, and that will be a big thing... irate need a cross-party approach, and that will be a big thing. . .- that will be a big thing... we had gordon brown, _ that will be a big thing... we had gordon brown, with _ that will be a big thing... we had gordon brown, with what - that will be a big thing... we had gordon brown, with what the - gordon brown, with what the conservatives called the death tax and the dementia tax with the may... it is even more urgent now and i'm sure that there will be something on it in our manifesto but i'm glad it has been raised and put onto the agenda. it is a huge issue for many people. the only problem is with the lib dems is like when they promise to abolish tuition fees? everybody was like, yes, let's abolish tuition fees but actually, they did not have... , ., fees but actually, they did not have... ,, ., ., ., , ., , have... keir starmer had a promise to do that in _ have... keir starmer had a promise to do that in his _ have... keir starmer had a promise to do that in his leadership - to do that in his leadership campaign and that has been dropped. should labour pledge money to go to local authorities are generally to keep people with social care cost? only if they can show where the money is coming from, people do not want recklessness and government like we have had from the tories. borisjohnson on the steps of downing street when he became prime

minister in 2019 said this... myjob is to protect you or your parents or grandparents from the fear of having to sell your home to pay for the costs of care and so i am announcing now, on the steps of downing street, that we will fix the crisis in social care, once and for all, with a clear plan we have prepared, to give every older person the dignity and security they deserve. never happened, did it, tim? certainly didn't. but can i respond to what daisy has just been talking about? i don't think the numbers add up about? i don't think the numbers add up automatically, but i have recently spent 48 hours with a neighbour of mine who fell over repeatedly, and over the course of those 48 hours, i think i dealt with 14 nhs professionals. he has now beenin 14 nhs professionals. he has now been in hospitalfor over a week. he didn't need to be in hospital, he just needed to be looked after. and so the gap, i think what daisy was

saying, the cabin herfounding members, which is real, is really about relieving the pressure on the nhs. the nhs at the moment is cleaning up the pieces from a broken community, a broken adult care sector. this has to be absolute number one priority, and if labour can deliver this, harriet, number one priority, and if labour can deliverthis, harriet, it's number one priority, and if labour can deliver this, harriet, it's a huge advantage. what i don't get the impression, though, from keir starmer, he is a of tory rhetoric on a lot of issues. it was defence yesterday. i'm glad the liberal democrats have made the intervention they have today. where is labour on this? it doesn't seem to be the priority it really should be. should it be labour's priority? l should it be labour's priority? i think it's absolutely should be, and in defence — think it's absolutely should be, and in defence of daisy, i think she was talking _ in defence of daisy, i think she was talking about when she talked about the nhs _ talking about when she talked about the nhs clearing the budget was, she was talking about the bad... i was talking about the bad... i was — was talking about the bad... i was basically agreeing, yes. ed davey— i was basically agreeing, yes. ed davey also _ i was basically agreeing, yes. ed davey also said _ i was basically agreeing, yes. ed davey also said that - i was basically agreeing, yes. ed davey also said that on . i was basically agreeing, yes. | ed davey also said that on the i was basically agreeing, yes. - ed davey also said that on the today programme. i agree with tim! that—

i agree with tim! that doesn't- i agree with tim! i that doesn't happen i agree with tim! - that doesn't happen very i agree with tim! _ that doesn't happen very often! i think— that doesn't happen very often! i think the — that doesn't happen very often! i think the policies outlined by the two dominant parties, and labour will basically get a super majority is predicted by the pulse, there is a lot— is predicted by the pulse, there is a lot more — is predicted by the pulse, there is a lot more room to outline a positive _ a lot more room to outline a positive vision of what britain could — positive vision of what britain could be _ positive vision of what britain could be beyond, we are going to have _ could be beyond, we are going to have more — could be beyond, we are going to have more submarines that won't affect— have more submarines that won't affect how — have more submarines that won't affect how people actually live their— affect how people actually live their day—to—day lives, or we will bring _ their day—to—day lives, or we will bring down — their day—to—day lives, or we will bring down net migration, these endless, — bring down net migration, these endless, bitter debates we are having — endless, bitter debates we are having about why we should let people — having about why we should let people in — having about why we should let people in the country, when what is really— people in the country, when what is really happening is people like tinr's— really happening is people like tim's neighbourare really happening is people like tim's neighbour are falling over, being _ tim's neighbour are falling over, being passed around from person to person— being passed around from person to person because there was nowhere to put them _ person because there was nowhere to put them. people are being treated in corridors — put them. people are being treated in corridors. the royal is of were talking _ in corridors. the royal is of were talking about thisjust in corridors. the royal is of were talking about this just this week. it is talking about this just this week. it is not — talking about this just this week. it is not front and centre because neither— it is not front and centre because neither of— it is not front and centre because neither of the two main parties can be honest— neither of the two main parties can be honest about the amount of money it would _ be honest about the amount of money it would take to fix this, the lib dems— it would take to fix this, the lib dems are — it would take to fix this, the lib dems are actually making an effort, and i_ dems are actually making an effort, and i don't — dems are actually making an effort, and i don't think we are seeing that _ and i don't think we are seeing that we — and i don't think we are seeing that. we are seeing are shying away from that— that. we are seeing are shying away from that effort from both main parties. — from that effort from both main parties, and it's demoralising. ithink— parties, and it's demoralising. i think we _ parties, and it's demoralising. i think we will make an effort in government, because of the nhs. if government, because of the nhs. if we government, because of the nhs.

we win. if we win, there i go again. but this is not an unreal fear, but this is not an unrealfear, it is happening in people's countries up is happening in people's countries up and down the country. but like daisy said, it will have to be cross—party and it will have two be sustainable and well thought through. nobody present are going to thank us for making promises at this stage that we can't deliver, so that is why. .. stage that we can't deliver, so that is why... it stage that we can't deliver, so that is wh ,., , stage that we can't deliver, so that iswh , ~ stage that we can't deliver, so that iswh , ,, ., ., is why... it sounds like you are not auoin to is why... it sounds like you are not going to tackle _ is why... it sounds like you are not going to tackle it. _ is why... it sounds like you are not going to tackle it. i _ is why... it sounds like you are not going to tackle it. i think _ is why... it sounds like you are not going to tackle it. i think we - is why... it sounds like you are not going to tackle it. i think we are, l going to tackle it. i think we are, but i would _ going to tackle it. i think we are, but i would say _ going to tackle it. i think we are, but i would say to _ going to tackle it. i think we are, but i would say to moya, - going to tackle it. i think we are, but i would say to moya, it's - going to tackle it. i think we are, i but i would say to moya, it's really important when there has been such a breach of trust between the tories and the public in terms of what they have promised and what they have done. we have got to treat their confidence in us really like a precious thing. but confidence in us really like a precious thing.— confidence in us really like a precious thing. but do you trust labour if they — precious thing. but do you trust labour if they win _ precious thing. but do you trust labour if they win the _ precious thing. but do you trust labour if they win the election | precious thing. but do you trust l labour if they win the election to do something on this? l labour if they win the election to do something on this?— do something on this? i don't. i want to say _ do something on this? i don't. i want to say i — do something on this? i don't. i want to say i agree _ do something on this? i don't. i want to say i agree with - do something on this? i don't. i want to say i agree with harriet| want to say i agree with harriet that culture as i call it of pledgeocracy has run rampant, and that is— pledgeocracy has run rampant, and that is why— pledgeocracy has run rampant, and that is why there is such a lack of

trust _ that is why there is such a lack of trust. across the spectrum, promises are made. _ trust. across the spectrum, promises are made, and revoked when circumstances change. i don't think it's the _ circumstances change. i don't think it's the same thing as the lib dems promising _ it's the same thing as the lib dems promising a — it's the same thing as the lib dems promising a costed policy, and there has been _ promising a costed policy, and there has been questions about the costing. — has been questions about the costing, but i think they are actually— costing, but i think they are actually making an effort to see, here _ actually making an effort to see, here are — actually making an effort to see, here are our costings and here is our research. they aren't saying anything — our research. they aren't saying anything at _ our research. they aren't saying anything at this point in time and we can't — anything at this point in time and we can't trust the tories to do it, because — we can't trust the tories to do it, because frankly, they aren't going to get— because frankly, they aren't going to get into — because frankly, they aren't going to get into government, and... yesterday— to get into government, and... yesterday was about nigel farage, but one _ yesterday was about nigel farage, but one of— yesterday was about nigel farage, but one of the _ yesterday was about nigel farage, but one of the most _ yesterday was about nigel farage, but one of the most moving - yesterday was about nigel farage, but one of the most moving parts. yesterday was about nigel farage, i but one of the most moving parts was ed davey— but one of the most moving parts was ed davey talking — but one of the most moving parts was ed davey talking about _ but one of the most moving parts was ed davey talking about his _ but one of the most moving parts was ed davey talking about his son - but one of the most moving parts was ed davey talking about his son and . ed davey talking about his son and his care _ ed davey talking about his son and his care one — ed davey talking about his son and his care. one of— ed davey talking about his son and his care. one of the _ ed davey talking about his son and his care. one of the reason - ed davey talking about his son and his care. one of the reason the - ed davey talking about his son and his care. one of the reason the libj his care. one of the reason the lib dems— his care. one of the reason the lib dems are — his care. one of the reason the lib dems are serious _ his care. one of the reason the lib dems are serious about _ his care. one of the reason the lib dems are serious about this - his care. one of the reason the lib dems are serious about this is - dems are serious about this is because — dems are serious about this is because for— dems are serious about this is because for ed _ dems are serious about this is because for ed davey... - dems are serious about this is because for ed davey... [it - dems are serious about this is because for ed davey... [it is i because for ed davey... it is personal. — because for ed davey... it is personal. yes- _ because for ed davey... it is personal, yes. and - because for ed davey... it is personal, yes. and i - because for ed davey... it is personal, yes. and i think. because for ed davey... it is i personal, yes. and i think that because for ed davey... it is - personal, yes. and i think that is communicated _ personal, yes. and i think that is communicated in _ personal, yes. and i think that is communicated in a _ personal, yes. and i think that is communicated in a way - personal, yes. and i think that is communicated in a way few- personal, yes. and i think that is| communicated in a way few other policies _ communicated in a way few other policies can — communicated in a way few other policies can be _ policies can be. since _ policies can be. since tim - policies can be. since tim has. policies can be. - since tim has brought it policies can be. _ since tim has brought it up, it is personal to ed davey, daisy. he has spoken about the importance of care across society and has personal experience of it. thatjuxtaposed with the pictures on yesterday, and

i think you were on the boat that was sailing past in henley. i mean, you are laughing away, but that next to —— there it is, behind rishi sunak. photo bombing him there. yes, it is funny, but does that really sort of jar it is funny, but does that really sort ofjar when it is funny, but does that really sort of jar when you it is funny, but does that really sort ofjar when you are then talking about really difficult issues of social care daisy? i don't think it does jar, because we have been very clear that whilst we have been very clear that whilst we don't take ourselves very seriously, we take our politics very seriously, we take our politics very seriously, and as tim said, no one could have watch that interview with ed davey yesterday and not felt a real hang in there heart. it was incredibly raw, incredibly powerful, they would say to every single person around country who has an experience of being a carer, they do it through an enormous abundance of love, but flipping heck, is it a toughjob to do. many love, but flipping heck, is it a tough job to do. many people know what that experience is like. every single member of parliament in the last four and a half years will have had some very distressing cases off

older or disabled people not receiving the care that they desperately need as a consequence of that. this issue cannot be ignored any more. the liberal democrats are putting it front and centre of our campaign and throwing down the gauntlet to every other political party to come up with some good ideas too. daisy cooper, thank you very much. you can see thejenga bricks, looks like a blue war, being knocked down there on a campaign visit by liberal democrat leader ed davey. we already know that 133 now former mps are not going to stand again. it feels like there is a real changing of the guard. what is your response to losing so much experience, potentially, well, not potentially, there are those standing down and losing their seats in this election.— in this election. actually, a lot of colleagues. _ in this election. actually, a lot of colleagues, good _ in this election. actually, a lot of colleagues, good friends - in this election. actually, a lot of colleagues, good friends of - in this election. actually, a lot of colleagues, good friends of mine in this election. actually, a lot of. colleagues, good friends of mine in fact, people like chris heaton harris, who has given 25 years of

front line service in politics, that is a very long time. with the and pressures on families, someone like will quins, again a dearfriend and colleague, who has a young family, wants to spend more time them. completely understandable. but also people like holly lynch on the labour side, who have worked with over the years in different roles and have enormous respect for she has decided to step back. so there are a lot of good people, it is a difficultjob. looking sceptical, but you are standing down. do you really want to standing down. do you really want to stand down when you think there is going to be a landslide gimmick i feel labour party is in safe hands, so i feel safe to stand down. but in resonse so i feel safe to stand down. but in response to _ so i feel safe to stand down. but in response to what _ so i feel safe to stand down. but in response to what tom _ so i feel safe to stand down. but in response to what tom said, - so i feel safe to stand down. but in response to what tom said, they i so i feel safe to stand down. but in i response to what tom said, they have been 80 _ response to what tom said, they have been 80 tory mps standing down, not because _ been 80 tory mps standing down, not because they have done 25 years of service, _ because they have done 25 years of service, but— because they have done 25 years of service, but because they think they're — service, but because they think they're going to lose and they don't want to— they're going to lose and they don't want to fight and lose, and they have _ want to fight and lose, and they have given up in despair, whereas a few people — have given up in despair, whereas a few people have stood down from labour _ few people have stood down from labour that micro few people have stood down from labour that micr— few people have stood down from| labour that micro_ for labour that micro quite a few! for individual reasons, _ labour that micro quite a few! for individual reasons, but _ labour that micro quite a few! for individual reasons, but not - labour that micro quite a few! for. individual reasons, but not because they have _ individual reasons, but not because they have given up on the party.

lots _ they have given up on the party. lots of— they have given up on the party. lots of people are trying to get into be labour candidates, which is the opposite of the problem. diane abbott has had a bit of a battle standing in the seat she is representing, hasn't she. she says she is going to stand. what you think of her treatment by labour? i think two things at the same time. i think two things at the same time. i have an enormous amount of respect and admiration for diane, and we only know the half of what she has put up only know the half of what she has ut u -_ . only know the half of what she has . ut u '- , , only know the half of what she has ut u.�* , , , ., . ~' put up with, being the first black woman mp. _ put up with, being the first black woman mp, and _ put up with, being the first black woman mp, and she _ put up with, being the first black woman mp, and she has- put up with, being the first black woman mp, and she has been i put up with, being the first black woman mp, and she has been a| woman mp, and she has been a trailblazer. _ woman mp, and she has been a trailblazer, and we now have many black— trailblazer, and we now have many black labour women mps and indeed, women _ black labour women mps and indeed, women on _ black labour women mps and indeed, women on all sides of the house, but i women on all sides of the house, but i would _ women on all sides of the house, but i would also — women on all sides of the house, but i would also say being in the party is something about working as a team _ is something about working as a team, and — is something about working as a team, and nobody has got an actual right~ _ team, and nobody has got an actual right i_ team, and nobody has got an actual right~ ido— team, and nobody has got an actual right... i do think diane has got a right— right... i do think diane has got a right to _ right... i do think diane has got a right to stand, and hopefully she will stand, but aside from that, i would _ will stand, but aside from that, i would saym _ will stand, but aside from that, i would say- - -_ would say... she is definitely standing- _ would say... she is definitely standing. yes, _ would say... she is definitely standing. yes, she _ would say... she is definitely standing. yes, she is - would say... she is definitely l standing. yes, she is definitely standinu . standing. yes, she is definitely standing. you _ standing. yes, she is definitely standing. you can _ standing. yes, she is definitely standing. you can see - standing. yes, she is definitely standing. you can see it - standing. yes, she is definitely standing. you can see it here l standing. yes, she is definitely| standing. you can see it here in standing. yes, she is definitely - standing. you can see it here in the independent- _

standing. you can see it here in the independent. but _ standing. you can see it here in the independent. but i _ standing. you can see it here in the independent. but i think— standing. you can see it here in the independent. but i think that - independent. but i think that basically. _ independent. but i think that basically. i— independent. but i think that basically, i wouldn't - independent. but i think that basically, i wouldn't want - independent. but i think that - basically, i wouldn't want people to think that _ basically, i wouldn't want people to think that micro i hope she will be standing _ think that micro i hope she will be standing and that the nec will prove her today, _ standing and that the nec will prove hertoday, hopefully. but there arem — hertoday, hopefully. but there arem she_ hertoday, hopefully. but there are... she has blazed a trail, there are... she has blazed a trail, there are more _ are... she has blazed a trail, there are more black and asian women mps. but actually, _ are more black and asian women mps. but actually, if you are in a party, ultimately. — but actually, if you are in a party, ultimately, you have to work to change — ultimately, you have to work to change that party. i want to change this party— change that party. i want to change this party and women and on black people _ this party and women and on black people and — this party and women and on black people and asian people... gk, this party and women and on black people and asian people... ok, but mo a, people and asian people... ok, but moya. she — people and asian people... ok, but moya. she is _ people and asian people... ok, but moya, she is standing _ people and asian people... ok, but moya, she is standing and - people and asian people... ok, but moya, she is standing and has - people and asian people... 0k, butj moya, she is standing and has been approved by the nec.— moya, she is standing and has been approved by the nec. there has been approved by the nec. there has been a massive story _ approved by the nec. there has been a massive story misty, _ approved by the nec. there has been a massive story misty, which - approved by the nec. there has been a massive story misty, which is - a massive story misty, which is about— a massive story misty, which is about the — a massive story misty, which is about the selections _ a massive story misty, which is about the selections process. i a massive story misty, which is i about the selections process. the guide _ about the selections process. the guide is— about the selections process. the guide is changing. _ about the selections process. the guide is changing, but— about the selections process. the guide is changing, but the - about the selections process. the i guide is changing, but the question is, guide is changing, but the question is. how— guide is changing, but the question is. how are — guide is changing, but the question is, how are people _ guide is changing, but the question is, how are people being _ guide is changing, but the question is, how are people being selected i is, how are people being selected coming _ is, how are people being selected coming through? _ is, how are people being selected coming through? both _ is, how are people being selected coming through? both on - is, how are people being selected coming through? both on the - coming through? both on the conservative _ coming through? both on the conservative and _ coming through? both on the conservative and labour - coming through? both on the i conservative and labour sites, coming through? both on the - conservative and labour sites, there are two— conservative and labour sites, there are two dominant _ conservative and labour sites, there are two dominant parties, _ conservative and labour sites, there are two dominant parties, there - conservative and labour sites, there are two dominant parties, there are| are two dominant parties, there are huge _ are two dominant parties, there are huge guestions _ are two dominant parties, there are huge questions about _ are two dominant parties, there are huge questions about how - are two dominant parties, there are huge questions about how fair - are two dominant parties, there are| huge questions about how fair these selection _ huge questions about how fair these selection processes— huge questions about how fair these selection processes are. _ huge questions about how fair these selection processes are. for- selection processes are. for instance. _ selection processes are. for instance. i_ selection processes are. for instance, iwas— selection processes are. for instance, i was talking - selection processes are. for instance, i was talking to i instance, i was talking to journalist _ instance, i was talking to journalist michael- instance, i was talking to journalist michael crick. instance, i was talking to - journalist michael crick yesterday, who is— journalist michael crick yesterday, who is closely— journalist michael crick yesterday, who is closely following _ journalist michael crick yesterday, who is closely following the - who is closely following the selection _ who is closely following the selection processes, - who is closely following the selection processes, and i who is closely following the | selection processes, and he who is closely following the - selection processes, and he actually called _ selection processes, and he actually called the _ selection processes, and he actually called the standing _ selection processes, and he actually called the standing down _ selection processes, and he actually called the standing down of - selection processes, and he actually called the standing down of severall called the standing down of several labour _ called the standing down of several labour mps — called the standing down of several labour mps corruption _ called the standing down of several labour mps corruption in _ called the standing down of several labour mps corruption in the - called the standing down of several i labour mps corruption in the manner in which _ labour mps corruption in the manner in which they— labour mps corruption in the manner in which they have _ labour mps corruption in the manner in which they have resigned, - labour mps corruption in the manner

in which they have resigned, which i in which they have resigned, which is a big _ in which they have resigned, which is a big claim — in which they have resigned, which is a big claim to— in which they have resigned, which is a big claim to make, _ in which they have resigned, which is a big claim to make, and - in which they have resigned, which is a big claim to make, and he - in which they have resigned, which is a big claim to make, and he is. is a big claim to make, and he is someone — is a big claim to make, and he is someone who— is a big claim to make, and he is someone who identifies - is a big claim to make, and he is someone who identifies as - is a big claim to make, and he isj someone who identifies as being is a big claim to make, and he is. someone who identifies as being on the labour— someone who identifies as being on the labour right _ someone who identifies as being on the labour right of— someone who identifies as being on the labour right of the _ someone who identifies as being on the labour right of the party. - someone who identifies as being on the labour right of the party. what i the labour right of the party. what has happened _ the labour right of the party. what has happened in— the labour right of the party. what has happened in these _ the labour right of the party. what has happened in these selection. has happened in these selection processes— has happened in these selection processes is. _ has happened in these selection processes is, people _ has happened in these selection processes is, people have - has happened in these selection. processes is, people have resigned at the _ processes is, people have resigned at the last— processes is, people have resigned at the last minute. _ processes is, people have resigned at the last minute. in— processes is, people have resigned at the last minute. in blair's- processes is, people have resigned at the last minute. in blair's day. at the last minute. in blair's day they— at the last minute. in blair's day they did — at the last minute. in blair's day they did this _ at the last minute. in blair's day they did this time _ at the last minute. in blair's day they did this time the _ at the last minute. in blair's day they did this time the end - at the last minute. in blair's day they did this time the end and i they did this time the end and sometimes _ they did this time the end and sometimes later— they did this time the end and sometimes later received - they did this time the end and - sometimes later received peerages. but happening — sometimes later received peerages. but happening is. _ sometimes later received peerages. but happening is, the _ sometimes later received peerages. but happening is, the labour- sometimes later received peerages. but happening is, the labour head l but happening is, the labour head office _ but happening is, the labour head office and — but happening is, the labour head office and nec— but happening is, the labour head office and nec change _ but happening is, the labour head office and nec change the - but happening is, the labour head office and nec change the rules i but happening is, the labour head. office and nec change the rules last year so _ office and nec change the rules last year so that— office and nec change the rules last year so that they _ office and nec change the rules last year so that they could _ office and nec change the rules last year so that they could parachute i year so that they could parachute people _ year so that they could parachute people into — year so that they could parachute people into seats _ year so that they could parachute people into seats as _ year so that they could parachute people into seats as candidates l people into seats as candidates without — people into seats as candidates without consulting _ people into seats as candidates without consulting the - people into seats as candidates without consulting the local- without consulting the local constituency _ without consulting the local constituency parties, - without consulting the local constituency parties, so - without consulting the local| constituency parties, so you without consulting the local- constituency parties, so you now have _ constituency parties, so you now have some — constituency parties, so you now have some of _ constituency parties, so you now have some of the _ constituency parties, so you now have some of the leaders - constituency parties, so you now have some of the leaders of- constituency parties, so you now. have some of the leaders of some constituency parties, so you now - have some of the leaders of some of the most _ have some of the leaders of some of the most secretive _ have some of the leaders of some of the most secretive think— have some of the leaders of some of the most secretive think tanks - have some of the leaders of some of the most secretive think tanks and i the most secretive think tanks and labour— the most secretive think tanks and labour parachuted _ the most secretive think tanks and labour parachuted into _ the most secretive think tanks and labour parachuted into the - the most secretive think tanks and labour parachuted into the safestl labour parachuted into the safest labour _ labour parachuted into the safest labour seats _ labour parachuted into the safest labour seats in _ labour parachuted into the safest labour seats in the _ labour parachuted into the safest labour seats in the country. - labour parachuted into the safestj labour seats in the country. what labour parachuted into the safest labour seats in the country. what do ou make labour seats in the country. what do you make of — labour seats in the country. what do you make of that? _ you make of that? i would say keir starmer and the nec have a responsibility to make sure every single constituency there is somebody who is right for public service... ~ , . , . . service... why are they standing in laces service... why are they standing in places they — service... why are they standing in places they have — service... why are they standing in places they have never _ service... why are they standing in places they have never been - service... why are they standing in places they have never been to? i service... why are they standing in l places they have never been to? you could say--- — places they have never been to? could say... hang on... places they have never been to? you could say... hang on... people - could say... hang on... people sittin: could say... hang on... people sitting on _ could say... hang on... people sitting on the _ could say... hang on... people sitting on the nec— could say... hang on... people sitting on the nec being - could say... hang on... people i sitting on the nec being approved could say... hang on... people - sitting on the nec being approved as candidates _ sitting on the nec being approved as candidates without— sitting on the nec being approved as candidates without any— sitting on the nec being approved as candidates without any consultation i candidates without any consultation from local _ candidates without any consultation from local parties. _ candidates without any consultation

from local parties. [5— candidates without any consultation from local parties. [5 it— candidates without any consultation from local parties.— from local parties. is it a good look? i'll— from local parties. is it a good look? i'lltell_ from local parties. is it a good look? i'll tell you _ from local parties. is it a good look? i'll tell you what - from local parties. is it a good look? i'll tell you what is - from local parties. is it a good look? i'll tell you what is a - from local parties. is it a good i look? i'll tell you what is a good look, we have _ look? i'll tell you what is a good look, we have a _ look? i'll tell you what is a good look, we have a fantastic- look? i'll tell you what is a good look, we have a fantastic team i look? i'll tell you what is a good. look, we have a fantastic team of candidates, and you will be really pleased with all of our... not all of them, but most of our candidates! let me asked him about this. you have tweeted this. what impact will it have? we are sat here with one of the most influential— we are sat here with one of the most influential parliamentarians of the modern _ influential parliamentarians of the modern era that would era, harriet harman _ modern era that would era, harriet harman. what she did with the equalities act, i didn't agree with it _ equalities act, i didn't agree with it not — equalities act, ididn't agree with it not all— equalities act, i didn't agree with it... not all of it, anyway, but you left your— it... not all of it, anyway, but you left your mark on politics to a huge extent _ left your mark on politics to a huge extent i_ left your mark on politics to a huge extent. i reckon if you are part of the labour— extent. i reckon if you are part of the labour team now, you would be more _ the labour team now, you would be more effective minister than you were _ more effective minister than you were a _ more effective minister than you were a few years ago, and what the conservatives and labour are going to experience, i think about the next _ to experience, i think about the next election, is such a parliament of novices — next election, is such a parliament of novices. people who haven't been

round _ of novices. people who haven't been round the _ of novices. people who haven't been round the block once or twice or haven't — round the block once or twice or haven't learned how to run a department. of course, you need new blood. _ department. of course, you need new blood, people with new ideas, but you need — blood, people with new ideas, but you need to balance that with people who know _ you need to balance that with people who know how to run a very complex whitehall— who know how to run a very complex whitehall departments. and _ whitehall departments. and the conservatives, what impact were losing this experience have? it were losing this experience have? it will mean young mps will make mistakes — will mean young mps will make mistakes more often. they won't have those _ mistakes more often. they won't have those conversations in the tea room and on _ those conversations in the tea room and on the — those conversations in the tea room and on the back benches with colleagues who have made those mistakes — colleagues who have made those mistakes before. of course, everyone has to— mistakes before. of course, everyone has to make _ mistakes before. of course, everyone has to make their own mistakes, and different— has to make their own mistakes, and different generations make their own different— different generations make their own different ones. but that lack of knowledge and experience, i think, will mean _ knowledge and experience, i think, will mean the next parliament will be much _ will mean the next parliament will be much more dangerous than the recent— be much more dangerous than the recent parliaments, simply because there _ recent parliaments, simply because there is— recent parliaments, simply because there is in— recent parliaments, simply because there is in the bedrock of knowledge. i think it will be more dangerous, but the _ i think it will be more dangerous, but the people _ i think it will be more dangerous, but the people being _ i think it will be more dangerous, but the people being parachutedl i think it will be more dangerous, i but the people being parachuted in a not you _ but the people being parachuted in a not you new — but the people being parachuted in a not you new young _ but the people being parachuted in a not you new young mps. _ but the people being parachuted in a not you new young mps. a _ but the people being parachuted in a not you new young mps. a lot - but the people being parachuted in a not you new young mps. a lot of - but the people being parachuted in a i not you new young mps. a lot of them are people _ not you new young mps. a lot of them are people you've _ not you new young mps. a lot of them are people you've surrounded - not you new young mps. a lot of them are people you've surrounded this - are people you've surrounded this there _ are people you've surrounded this there were — are people you've surrounded this there were these _ are people you've surrounded this there were these parties - are people you've surrounded this there were these parties for - are people you've surrounded this there were these parties for years as lobbyist. — there were these parties for years as lobbyist, think— there were these parties for years as lobbyist, think tank— there were these parties for years as lobbyist, think tank directors i as lobbyist, think tank directors and special— as lobbyist, think tank directors and special advisers. _ and special advisers. you _ and special advisers. you don't _ and special advisers. you don't think- and special advisers. you don't think that i and special advisers. i you don't think that will be productive?— you don't think that will be productive? you don't think that will be roductive? ., , ., ., ., productive? not when it is a lot of eo - le productive? not when it is a lot of people who _

productive? not when it is a lot of people who have _ productive? not when it is a lot of people who have not _ productive? not when it is a lot of people who have not shown i productive? not when it is a lot of people who have not shown any i productive? not when it is a lot of. people who have not shown any great genius _ people who have not shown any great genius of— people who have not shown any great genius of politics _ people who have not shown any great genius of politics so _ people who have not shown any great genius of politics so much _ people who have not shown any great genius of politics so much as - people who have not shown any great genius of politics so much as for i genius of politics so much as for networking _ genius of politics so much as for networking and _ genius of politics so much as for networking and changing - genius of politics so much as for i networking and changing amounts genius of politics so much as for - networking and changing amounts of money _ money. we - money. i we have money. - we have only got money. — we have only got a few more money. _ we have only got a few more seconds. i think it will be absolutely fine. rachel reeves has been almost heading for the chancellorship since she was about 1k. keir starmer is a serious person, and i can tell you you don't need to lie awake at night in your bed. they will be a cracking team. would you accept a peerage if they getin? ihave getin? i have said i would if i was lucky enough to be offered one. so you are going to the house of lords! goodbye from all of us here!

today at one: the countdown is on to the first tv debate between the two main party leaders in this general election. rishi sunak and sir keir starmer will go head—to—head tonight for the first time in this campaign. also on the programme... the conservatives pledge to cut the number of visas available to migrants if they win the election. labour say the tories have lost control of migration.

tests have revealed a newborn baby discovered in an east london park earlier this year is the sister of two other children abandoned by the same parents. and veterans set sail for northern france to mark the anniversary of d—day. for many, it's likely to be the last time they make the journey. i never thought i would have 80 years of freedom when i came back. but when i think of it, it's wonderful. and coming up on bbc news: who will be in and who will miss out? just a couple of days remain for scotland and england before their squads for the euros must be confirmed.

hello and welcome to the bbc news at one.