moderator and she is have the moderator and she is amazing, but you have the studio audience put been quite rowdy. many of the audience watching him. there you have the media watching the whole _ you have the media watching the whole spectacle, because they were quite quickly make some sort of observation almost give a scorecard on it. _ observation almost give a scorecard on it. and _ observation almost give a scorecard on it, and that will impact on how tomorrow's — on it, and that will impact on how tomorrow's papers look. 50 on it, and that will impact on how tomorrow's papers look. so you've -ot tomorrow's papers look. so you've got that _ tomorrow's papers look. so you've got that i— tomorrow's papers look. so you've got that i mention as well because if people _ got that i mention as well because if people think, you know, if they see a _ if people think, you know, if they see a problem or they see a slight flicker_ see a problem or they see a slight flicker of— see a problem or they see a slight flicker of an eye or a bit of panic, that's— flicker of an eye or a bit of panic, that's what— flicker of an eye or a bit of panic, that's what it's like, "right, we smell_ that's what it's like, "right, we smell blood." that's what it's like, "right, we smell blood. "— that's what it's like, "right, we smell blood. " that means for the rinci - les smell blood. " that means for the principles come _ smell blood. " that means for the principles come as _ smell blood. " that means for the principles come as we _ smell blood. " that means for the | principles come as we sometimes smell blood. " that means for the - principles come as we sometimes call them, the cogs must be wearing i them, the cogs must be wearing 1 million miles an hour. a, them, the cogs must be wearing 1 million miles an hour.— million miles an hour. a lot of it is prepped. _ million miles an hour. a lot of it is prepped, actually, _ million miles an hour. a lot of it is prepped, actually, and - million miles an hour. a lot of it is prepped, actually, and the i million miles an hour. a lot of it - is prepped, actually, and the reason they put so much effort into it is so they know how these things are going to go. they game it out.

whether those multiparty debates and five leaders was we already knew that it five leaders was we already knew thatitis five leaders was we already knew that it is particularly hard for labour because, and i'm not trying to make excuses, it's not my labour lost that election, but, you know, the snp can just attack labour and call for scottish independence, which is completely reasonable, that's their position. lied, he could attack labour as their main opponent in wales, the more time spent talking about the snp or applied camry, the less time they are talked about david cameron, and more validating that big conservative argument at the time, look at these guys come it's going to be a coalition of chaos if they get in, and they are all bickering amongst themselves. —— plaid cymru. but he's being picked off from different angles from smaller parties. he didn't really care about the tories in the same way. something that might�*ve looked like a debate unfolding naturally and wasn't necessarily a big headline got you moment, ends up being really consequential. got you moment, ends up being really consequential-— consequential. that's right. and we knew what was _ consequential. that's right. and we knew what was coming. _ consequential. that's right. and we knew what was coming. so - consequential. that's right. and we knew what was coming. so much i consequential. that's right. and we

knew what was coming. so much of consequential. that's right. and we l knew what was coming. so much of it was script, you might remember, it miliband left some of his debate notes on the lectern. i’m miliband left some of his debate notes on the lectern.— notes on the lectern. i'm a heavy warrior. that _ notes on the lectern. i'm a heavy warrior. that were _ notes on the lectern. i'm a heavy warrior. that were leaked - notes on the lectern. i'm a heavy warrior. that were leaked in - warrior. that were leaked in the sun. warrior. that were leaked in the am that _ warrior. that were leaked in the sun. that was _ warrior. that were leaked in the sun. that was quite _ warrior. that were leaked in the sun. that was quite annoying. l warrior. that were leaked in the - sun. that was quite annoying. what was that phrase _ sun. that was quite annoying. what was that phrase about. _ sun. that was quite annoying. what was that phrase about. yellow might get a sheet of reminders of particular reminders he wanted to use and that was more about how the general sort of tone to approaching the debate don't get too angry, be relatively the debate don't get too angry, be relativel, ., the debate don't get too angry, be relativel, . ., relatively light-hearted about it. it's not bad _ relatively light-hearted about it. it's not bad advice, _ relatively light-hearted about it. it's not bad advice, but - relatively light-hearted about it. it's not bad advice, but you - relatively light-hearted about it. l it's not bad advice, but you should lit —— you should not leave your notes on the lectern. lit -- you should not leave your notes on the lectern.— lit -- you should not leave your notes on the lectern. don't leave our notes on the lectern. don't leave your notes _ notes on the lectern. don't leave your notes hanging _ notes on the lectern. don't leave your notes hanging around - your notes hanging around afterwards. what sort of politician is best suited to these debates? because i'm thinking you would've thought david cameron, mr smoothie, very unruffled, very good at delivering a line in quite a natural way, you think he would be the ideal candidate for these, but actually, he always struggled.— he always struggled. that's the thin. he always struggled. that's the thing- that's — he always struggled. that's the thing. that's where _ he always struggled. that's the thing. that's where nick - he always struggled. that's the thing. that's where nick cleggl thing. that's where nick clegg did so well, because nick clegg was sort of delivering lines but was quite

relaxed. so what he did was made david cameron look more rehearsed and much more stilted, may be a bit polished. so in a sense, depending on the environment that is how you can show up floors by sort of holding a mirror to them because of the way others behave. this one in particular i think what is going to be challenging is that we know that rishi sunak has had a sort of have it with the media getting quite ruffled to my getting a little bit tetchy. ruffled to my getting a little bit tetch . �* ., tetchy. and he did that with liz truss during — tetchy. and he did that with liz truss during their— tetchy. and he did that with liz truss during their leadership i truss during their leadership debate. ., �* , truss during their leadership debate. ., v truss during their leadership debate. . �*, ., , debate. that's part of the problem. i look back to _ debate. that's part of the problem. i look back to when _ debate. that's part of the problem. i look back to when i _ debate. that's part of the problem. i look back to when i first _ debate. that's part of the problem. i look back to when i first started i i look back to when i first started doing _ i look back to when i first started doing this — i look back to when i first started doing this stuff. we didn't have social_ doing this stuff. we didn't have social media to be able to look at endless _ social media to be able to look at endless clips and look at those sort of behavioural traits in a way that the team — of behavioural traits in a way that the team that are prepping for tonight— the team that are prepping for tonight are able to do. there are lots of— tonight are able to do. there are lots of little, "can we get them by doing _ lots of little, "can we get them by doing this? — lots of little, "can we get them by doing this? can we throw this allegation out because we know that always _ allegation out because we know that always whines him up? . " so both parties _ always whines him up? . " so both parties are — always whines him up? . " so both parties are going to look at where there _ parties are going to look at where there is— parties are going to look at where there is a — parties are going to look at where there is a weakness.— there is a weakness. what do you think keir starmer's _

there is a weakness. what do you think keir starmer's weakness i there is a weakness. what do you i think keir starmer's weakness might be presentational he? i think keir starmer's weakness might be presentational he?— be presentational he? i think there ma be be presentational he? i think there may be elements _ be presentational he? i think there may be elements where _ be presentational he? i think there may be elements where he - be presentational he? i think there may be elements where he will. may be elements where he will want to attack rishi sunak on a whole range of things and i think he will... it's quite important that he sticks to his lines. the most important thing that labour wants to get out of this debate is it's partly to introduce keir starmer, we haven't necessarily been watching them that closely, one of the interesting things, that nick clegg did so well in 2010, actually, was hejust did so well in 2010, actually, was he just wasn't anything like as well—known as the other leaders. so he is the fresh faced young man and people go, "that guy saying all these other parties have messed it up. maybe i can trust him." translated into loads of great media coverage. the pulls moved briefly. keir starmer, _ coverage. the pulls moved briefly. keir starmer, he's _ coverage. the pulls moved briefly. keir starmer, he's been _ coverage. the pulls moved briefly. keir starmer, he's been leader - coverage. the pulls moved briefly. keir starmer, he's been leader for| keir starmer, he's been leaderfor quite a long time now, one of the things that people say about him is they still don't know what to labour wants to do and what keir starmer stands for. one of the big things

that the tories day about labour �*s they have not got a plan. you think the main thing he will want to get out to say, we have got a plan, here is what it is. to be fair to labour, they spent quite a lot of time laying it out. so there's a risk for rishi sunak that he walks into a punch there and says they've told you nothing and keir starmer goes well, let me tell you all the things that i want to do.— that i want to do. how do you craft an answer— that i want to do. how do you craft an answer for— that i want to do. how do you craft an answer for the _ that i want to do. how do you craft an answer for the leaders - that i want to do. how do you craft an answer for the leaders to - that i want to do. how do you craft an answer for the leaders to give, | an answer for the leaders to give, as he said, it's all pre—scripted and planned, that somebody in the audience says, "what are you going to do about nhs waiting times? " 0r making sure kids can afford to buy a home. what's the structure of the answer that means you can do a bit of biography, attack the other guy and also lay out your policy but not giving a 12 minute lecture? i’zre giving a 12 minute lecture? i've not been involved _ giving a 12 minute lecture? i've not been involved in _ giving a 12 minute lecture? i've not been involved in this, _ giving a 12 minute lecture? i've not been involved in this, so _ giving a 12 minute lecture? i've not been involved in this, so i - giving a 12 minute lecture? i've not been involved in this, so i am - been involved in this, so i am making this up. fin been involved in this, so i am making this up.— been involved in this, so i am - making this up._ keir making this up. on the spot. keir starmer giving — making this up. on the spot. keir starmer giving that _ making this up. on the spot. keir starmer giving that question, - making this up. on the spot. keir| starmer giving that question, first of all, i understand the problems that you and your families have gone through in the nhs because many people around the country are facing

that as well. i care about the nhs because my mum was a nurse in the nhs can it's important to me. i think his wife works for the nhs as well. his family connections. the nhs is in trouble. here are some facts about the state of the nhs now and the fact that waiting lists have been going up and queuing outside of hospitals. not enough doctors and nurses. here is what we are going to do to change it. we've got policies to bring waiting lists down by having more appointments on evenings and weekends. ijust made that up, but you can fill two minutes with that. all of those are things he would want to hit. and it's covers a bit of personal, a bit of a tax, a bit of personal, a bit of a tax, a bit of plan, and then you get into the back and forth with rishi sunak later. ., , the back and forth with rishi sunak later. . , ., ., ., later. that is someone who has done a lot of debate _ later. that is someone who has done a lot of debate prep. _ later. that is someone who has done a lot of debate prep. give _ later. that is someone who has done a lot of debate prep. give us - a lot of debate prep. give us something else that goes on behind the scenes that kind of helps these guys get through this? thea;r the scenes that kind of helps these guys get through this?— the scenes that kind of helps these guys get through this? they will be throwin: guys get through this? they will be throwing out. _ guys get through this? they will be throwing out, well, _ guys get through this? they will be throwing out, well, there _ guys get through this? they will be throwing out, well, there will- guys get through this? they will be throwing out, well, there will be i throwing out, well, there will be the usual, — throwing out, well, there will be the usual, they've all got to eat pronertv. — the usual, they've all got to eat properly, rishi sunak will have been for a run _ properly, rishi sunak will have been for a run or— properly, rishi sunak will have been for a run or something.—

for a run or something. televised. the will for a run or something. televised. they will probably _ for a run or something. televised. they will probably have _ for a run or something. televised. they will probably have tried - for a run or something. televised. they will probably have tried to i for a run or something. televised. j they will probably have tried to be carefut— they will probably have tried to be careful about the outfits because we know there's a lot of scrutiny about what _ know there's a lot of scrutiny about what they _ know there's a lot of scrutiny about what they are wearing. they will have _ what they are wearing. they will have done — what they are wearing. they will have done those sort of what do the notes _ have done those sort of what do the notes took _ have done those sort of what do the notes look like that they actually need. _ notes look like that they actually need. so — notes look like that they actually need, so they will have gone through the key— need, so they will have gone through the key message stuff. keir starmer will go _ the key message stuff. keir starmer will go through his pledges, it will be how— will go through his pledges, it will be how do— will go through his pledges, it will be how do i get those down? rishi sunak— be how do i get those down? rishi sunak i'm — be how do i get those down? rishi sunak i'm sure hasjust rehearsed how to _ sunak i'm sure hasjust rehearsed how to say— sunak i'm sure hasjust rehearsed how to say the word planet several times— how to say the word planet several times over— how to say the word planet several times over and lots of different ways — times over and lots of different ways. they probably, i would've thought — ways. they probably, i would've thought with rishi sunak, if he has -ot thought with rishi sunak, if he has got to— thought with rishi sunak, if he has got to the — thought with rishi sunak, if he has got to the team he should have around — got to the team he should have around him during the prep, they shoutd've — around him during the prep, they should've literally poked him so hard _ should've literally poked him so hard that's, you know, to the point where _ hard that's, you know, to the point where he _ hard that's, you know, to the point where he really wants to swear at all of _ where he really wants to swear at all of them, but won't. and i think with keir— all of them, but won't. and i think with keir starmer, it will be about keeping _ with keir starmer, it will be about keeping him, i can almost picture a sort of— keeping him, i can almost picture a sort of rocky — keeping him, i can almost picture a sort of rocky set up where they are trying _ sort of rocky set up where they are trying to _ sort of rocky set up where they are trying to get keir starmer to be quiet. — trying to get keir starmer to be quiet, flexible, loose. they both -ot quiet, flexible, loose. they both got to— quiet, flexible, loose. they both got to loosen up, these guys. they are both _ got to loosen up, these guys. they are both very, very structured and quite _ are both very, very structured and quite frankly, at times, relatively uninspiring in terms of their ability— uninspiring in terms of their ability to—

uninspiring in terms of their ability tojust talk, uninspiring in terms of their ability to just talk, but instead it's very— ability to just talk, but instead it's very controlled. they both need to loosen _ it's very controlled. they both need to loosen up if they are going to have _ to loosen up if they are going to have any— to loosen up if they are going to have any connection with the public and that— have any connection with the public and that is— have any connection with the public and that is probably not easy for either— and that is probably not easy for either of— and that is probably not easy for either of them.— either of them. every time you come on newscast. — either of them. every time you come on newscast. we _ either of them. every time you come on newscast, we get _ either of them. every time you come on newscast, we get a _ either of them. every time you come on newscast, we get a boris - either of them. every time you come on newscast, we get a boris johnson on newscast, we get a borisjohnson horror story come i don't want to dry horror story come i don't want to pry that's cliche as well, but that comes back to my point. my clinic there so many of them! multiple podcasts. you been in business for years. but back to my point about how the character of the person doesn't always play out to the way you think it would because you think borisjohnson, a person who rips up the rules, whose very entertaining, who is prepared to be quite aggressive but can do it in a way that looks quite funny, actually even he didn't have that many great debate moments either. he even he didn't have that many great debate moments either.— debate moments either. he had a really mixed _ debate moments either. he had a really mixed run. _ debate moments either. he had a really mixed run. i _ debate moments either. he had a really mixed run. i mean, - debate moments either. he had a really mixed run. i mean, the - debate moments either. he had a| really mixed run. i mean, the first one was— really mixed run. i mean, the first one was back in 2008 for the may oral election. and we haven't had this in_ oral election. and we haven't had this in the — oral election. and we haven't had this in the uk before so we were planning — this in the uk before so we were planning for something we didn't even _ planning for something we didn't even really understand. it was difficult — even really understand. it was difficult. what happened, if you look difficult. what happened, if you took at — difficult. what happened, if you

look at borisjohnson's difficult. what happened, if you look at boris johnson's career, difficult. what happened, if you look at borisjohnson's career, what gradually— look at borisjohnson's career, what gradually happened was it went from "you are _ gradually happened was it went from "you are the clown and you cannot be taken _ "you are the clown and you cannot be taken seriously will stop" towards the latter— taken seriously will stop" towards the latter part of his political career. — the latter part of his political career. it— the latter part of his political career, it became all the things that he — career, it became all the things that he was bad about or had to sort of defend _ that he was bad about or had to sort of defend. and what actually happened at ll of defend. and what actually happened at i! think during the happened at1.i think during the debates— happened at i! think during the debates with him was that it became a bit of— debates with him was that it became a bit of a _ debates with him was that it became a bit of a pylon and i think some people felt a bit sorry for him, which — people felt a bit sorry for him, which was _ people felt a bit sorry for him, which was probably the last thing anybody— which was probably the last thing anybody expected the reaction to boris _ anybody expected the reaction to boris to— anybody expected the reaction to boris to be, but he sort of looked like it— boris to be, but he sort of looked like it was— boris to be, but he sort of looked like it was a — boris to be, but he sort of looked like it was a big gang of people 'ust like it was a big gang of people just kind — like it was a big gang of people just kind of one after the other sort _ just kind of one after the other sort of— just kind of one after the other sort of playground bullies. but his ability, _ sort of playground bullies. but his ability, one thing he did have was he just— ability, one thing he did have was he just had — ability, one thing he did have was he just had a sort of vault of clever— he just had a sort of vault of clever responses. having done all those _ clever responses. having done all those after dinner speeches and off—the—cuff remarks that he was quite _ off—the—cuff remarks that he was quite good at, he had sort of a stock— quite good at, he had sort of a stock of— quite good at, he had sort of a stock of those that even if you are rehearsing — stock of those that even if you are rehearsing with him you would say where _ rehearsing with him you would say where did — rehearsing with him you would say where did that when come from? i have _ where did that when come from? i have not— where did that when come from? i have not heard that one before. he would _ have not heard that one before. he would just— have not heard that one before. he would just come out with something. ithink— would just come out with something. i think the _ would just come out with something. i think the interactions with the public— i think the interactions with the public and all of those interactions with business leaders, just his

career— with business leaders, just his career to— with business leaders, just his career to date meant that he had a sort of. _ career to date meant that he had a sort of. he — career to date meant that he had a sort of, he just had a bank of stuff he could _ sort of, he just had a bank of stuff he could go— sort of, he just had a bank of stuff he could go back to. | sort of, he just had a bank of stuff he could go back to.— sort of, he just had a bank of stuff he could go back to. i will bring up the brexit debate _ he could go back to. i will bring up the brexit debate again, _ he could go back to. i will bring up the brexit debate again, and - he could go back to. i will bring up the brexit debate again, and i - the brexit debate again, and i remember independence two was coming out and i saw an advert for it on a bus on the way to the debate at wembley and i was like i bet boris johnson will use that. and he did! and that was his ability to connect with you _ and that was his ability to connect with you could almost come a part of working _ with you could almost come a part of working with boris johnson was you would _ working with boris johnson was you would meet people who didn't like him or— would meet people who didn't like him or didn't think they would like him or didn't think they would like him or— him or didn't think they would like him or didn't think they would like him or didn't want to like and because _ him or didn't want to like and because of his politics and then would _ because of his politics and then would meet him and go, well, he was quite _ would meet him and go, well, he was quite a _ would meet him and go, well, he was quite a good — would meet him and go, well, he was quite a good bloke. he was funny, he wasn't _ quite a good bloke. he was funny, he wasn't what _ quite a good bloke. he was funny, he wasn't what i — quite a good bloke. he was funny, he wasn't what i was expecting. that is where _ wasn't what i was expecting. that is where even — wasn't what i was expecting. that is where even the difficult debates, he sort of— where even the difficult debates, he sort of left _ where even the difficult debates, he sort of left people often thinking, "0h. _ sort of left people often thinking, "oh. yeah. — sort of left people often thinking, "oh, yeah, that was quite entertaining." which may be wasn't always— entertaining." which may be wasn't always the — entertaining." which may be wasn't always the plan but it perhaps took away from — always the plan but it perhaps took away from some of the answers. what about practical— away from some of the answers. what about practical things, _ away from some of the answers. transit about practical things, like away from some of the answers. wisgt about practical things, like making sure your leader doesn't trip off the stage, as in it miliband did

right of the campaign. what the stage, as in it miliband did right of the campaign.- the stage, as in it miliband did right of the campaign. what i will sa in m right of the campaign. what i will say in my defences _ right of the campaign. what i will say in my defences i _ right of the campaign. what i will say in my defences i specifically l say in my defences i specifically said don't fall off the stage before he went but that shows... how clearly my advice was taken. i thought his problem was he let down his garden butjob done in thejob is not done until you are back in the room. is not done until you are back in the room-— the room. it's on was mistake walkin: the room. it's on was mistake walking up — the room. it's on was mistake walking up with _ the room. it's on was mistake walking up with the _ the room. it's on was mistake walking up with the mic. - the room. it's on was mistake walking up with the mic. i- the room. it's on was mistake l walking up with the mic. i think that is probably _ walking up with the mic. i think that is probably right. - walking up with the mic. i think that is probably right. it - walking up with the mic. i think that is probably right. it was i walking up with the mic. i thinkl that is probably right. it was one of those... you know, anyone can trip up. but he got clipped and it fed him to a narrative that people wanted to push, particularly people who were opposed to him, but it never helps to trip over like that. that ended up being relatively memorable. but that ended up being relatively memorable.— that ended up being relatively memorable. �* . memorable. but theresa may's closing line in 2017 when _ memorable. but theresa may's closing line in 2017 when she _ memorable. but theresa may's closing line in 2017 when she was _ memorable. but theresa may's closing line in 2017 when she was in _ memorable. but theresa may's closing line in 2017 when she was in a - line in 2017 when she was in a similarformat, because i think that was a sort of question time audience form, her last line of the campaign was, i'm afraid there's no magic money tree to give you what you want. and she said that to a nurse who was asking for a pay rise, so actually her closing image, closing

sound bite wasn't great either. know, and that is where, i think, to have _ know, and that is where, i think, to have a _ know, and that is where, i think, to have a little — know, and that is where, i think, to have a little bit of sympathy for these _ have a little bit of sympathy for these folks that do these, they are completely foreign environments to what they— completely foreign environments to what they are used to. they are use to like _ what they are used to. they are use to like if— what they are used to. they are use to like if they were coming in to do this, _ to like if they were coming in to do this, they— to like if they were coming in to do this, they would see how it looks, they would — this, they would see how it looks, they would know. each debate format changes _ they would know. each debate format changes. the set changes. do you know _ changes. the set changes. do you know where the step is? etc. but if they do _ know where the step is? etc. but if they do standard interviews, they know _ they do standard interviews, they know roughly where they are headed and what _ know roughly where they are headed and what it _ know roughly where they are headed and what it looks like. i think the thing _ and what it looks like. i think the thing with— and what it looks like. i think the thing with that is they sort of lose a sense _ thing with that is they sort of lose a sense of— thing with that is they sort of lose a sense of how long they are even in the studio _ a sense of how long they are even in the studio. they have a sense, they lose sense — the studio. they have a sense, they lose sense of time, you know, the adrenaline — lose sense of time, you know, the adrenaline is rushing, they cannot remember— adrenaline is rushing, they cannot remember what they said ten minutes a-o. remember what they said ten minutes ago and _ remember what they said ten minutes ago and i_ remember what they said ten minutes ago. and i think on that point, you know, _ ago. and i think on that point, you know, teresa was obviously being honest. _ know, teresa was obviously being honest, but it didn't look great, that is— honest, but it didn't look great, that is the — honest, but it didn't look great, that is the reality is you can't always — that is the reality is you can't always perhaps say what you really want to _ always perhaps say what you really want to say and you have got to think— want to say and you have got to think about the framing, because it is postop— think about the framing, because it is postop you are essentially being pitted _ is postop you are essentially being pitted against him but he who is in a very— pitted against him but he who is in a very different role. and it therefore landed badly. in 2017,

when theresa _ therefore landed badly. in 2017, when theresa may _ therefore landed badly. in 2017, when theresa may did _ therefore landed badly. in 2017, when theresa may did that i therefore landed badly. in 2017, when theresa may did that a i therefore landed badly. in 2017, i when theresa may did that a question time, which was a series of one on ones, but she didn't do the main tv debate. she pulled out of it. and debate. she pulled out of it. and jerem debate. she pulled out of it. and jeremy corbvn — debate. she pulled out of it. and jeremy corbyn turned up at the last minute. jeremy corbyn turned up at the last minute. �* , , ., jeremy corbyn turned up at the last minute. �* ,, ., .,, , minute. and i guess that was partly out i am ahead _ minute. and i guess that was partly out i am ahead in _ minute. and i guess that was partly out i am ahead in the _ minute. and i guess that was partly out i am ahead in the polls, - minute. and i guess that was partly out i am ahead in the polls, there l out i am ahead in the polls, there is no win for me in this. i might as well not bother, but not turning up just made her look incredibly weak and was probably a really bad move. evenif and was probably a really bad move. even if the best you can hope to get out of these debates come into think it normally is the best you can hope to get out of these debates is to score a draw, you'vejust to get out of these debates is to score a draw, you've just got to go and get it. otherwise you lose it. what i think about in these moments is that even if somebody is doing badly in the polls or they made loads of gaffes, you realise to get to that level in politics you've got to that level in politics you've got to have something in the thing that i always think in these debates is if that was me up there, i would be sweating buckets, no matter how much make up i've got on. nobody is ever sweating buckets on their because they have made it to the top. because they've got something. one of the things about politicians

that people forget is that any of them who any good have spent years giving short but decent answers to difficult questions. but in these debates they are usually not even that difficult of questions. they are what are you going to do about the nhs? ready when you do about immigration? what are you going to do about the economy? they are difficult questions but they are not questions that these people haven't thought about. this is the first chance for the public to hear some of these frankly unscripted answers, which may sound as unscripted as possible, but nothing —— but they all have been prepped. it is a skill but it's also something that people pwn over years and years and to get to the point to being leader of the party, no one starts off as the leader of the party. it party, no one starts off as the leader of the party.— leader of the party. it didn't ha en leader of the party. it didn't happen by _ leader of the party. it didn't happen by accident. - leader of the party. it didn't happen by accident. right. | leader of the party. it didn't i happen by accident. right. what cliches are almost guaranteed to be trotted out tonight? i cliches are almost guaranteed to be trotted out tonight?— trotted out tonight? i think we will have the standard _ trotted out tonight? i think we will have the standard attacks - trotted out tonight? i think we will have the standard attacks about, | have the standard attacks about, what _ have the standard attacks about, what is _ have the standard attacks about, what is it. — have the standard attacks about, what is it, sir softly come i think they— what is it, sir softly come i think they have — what is it, sir softly come i think they have been using on keir starmer~ _ they have been using on keir starmer. it they have been using on keir starmer. , ~ ., . starmer. it sounds like an ice cream. what's _

starmer. it sounds like an ice cream. what's a _ starmer. it sounds like an ice cream. what's a softy? it i starmer. it sounds like an ice i cream. what's a softy? it might be starmer. it sounds like an ice - cream. what's a softy? it might be a bit of people — cream. what's a softy? it might be a bit of people thinking _ cream. what's a softy? it might be a bit of people thinking nice _ cream. what's a softy? it might be a bit of people thinking nice thoughts l bit of people thinking nice thoughts about— bit of people thinking nice thoughts about the _ bit of people thinking nice thoughts about the seaside. i'm not sure. but ithink— about the seaside. i'm not sure. but i think there — about the seaside. i'm not sure. but i think there will be the attacks on keir starmer's background, who has he defended. jeremy corbyn support. all of that _ he defended. jeremy corbyn support. all of that standard stop. i think there _ all of that standard stop. i think there will— all of that standard stop. i think there will be the attacks on rishi sunak. _ there will be the attacks on rishi sunak. his — there will be the attacks on rishi sunak, his wealth and what does he really— sunak, his wealth and what does he really stand for. i think the bit that— really stand for. i think the bit that i— really stand for. i think the bit that i would love it if i think it is time — that i would love it if i think it is time that rishi sunak actually surprised — is time that rishi sunak actually surprised everybody and i thank you should _ surprised everybody and i thank you should address the liz truss era. he still hasn't _ should address the liz truss era. he still hasn't drawn a line under that and sort _ still hasn't drawn a line under that and sort of— still hasn't drawn a line under that and sort of set, you know, i didn't want _ and sort of set, you know, ididn't want her— and sort of set, you know, ididn't want her to— and sort of set, you know, i didn't want her to be leader either come i was standing against her, and actually, _ was standing against her, and actually, you know, i have been on her mess— actually, you know, i have been on her mess since i got in. and i think if you _ her mess since i got in. and i think if you put a — her mess since i got in. and i think if you put a bit of clearwater between _ if you put a bit of clearwater between him and her, i think it would — between him and her, i think it would be — between him and her, i think it would be really helpful. i'm not convinced — would be really helpful. i'm not convinced they will because i think they should've done it by now if they— they should've done it by now if they were — they should've done it by now if they were going to do it, but that would _ they were going to do it, but that would be — they were going to do it, but that would be the kind of thing i think he could — would be the kind of thing i think he could use the opportunity for. | he could use the opportunity for. i think he could use the opportunity for. think that he could use the opportunity for. i think that is right and that would be quite a smart thing to do. they have done a bit of that already. we have done a bit of that already. we have heard him say a few times that

you shouldn't reduce the last 1a years to just 49 days. while coming in all, people's mortgages are what they are because of the bad things that happen. almost any government may only have a small number of short bad. it's but those are the ones that people remember and it's not unreasonable for them to vote on that. i would expect both leaders to talk about background, expect to hear about rishi sunak because my parents and coming in doing the books in the back room of the pharmacy when he was a kid. i expect to hear about keir starmer's house and his father being a toolmaker and his mother working in the nhs, all of this stuff. and some of that feels like a cliche, and some of thatis feels like a cliche, and some of that is stuff that all of us as political junkies who that is stuff that all of us as politicaljunkies who pay attention to this stuff have heard, but to be fair, the watching public, there will be millions of people watching this need to have haven't necessarily turned in and are just starting to think about the election. they may think they know how they are going to vote, but they could be persuaded to change. and they are still asking, who is rishi sunak really? who is keir starmer

really? and a big part of this isn't just a roll—out policy, but to tell that story and to try to make that human connection, which both of them may be lesser decked out then some of the politicians they've seen in the past. of the politicians they've seen in the ast. ., ., ~ , ., of the politicians they've seen in the ast. ., . ~' , ., , of the politicians they've seen in the ast. ., . ~' , . the past. tom, thank you very much, and joe, i the past. tom, thank you very much, and joe. i suppose — the past. tom, thank you very much, and joe, i suppose he _ the past. tom, thank you very much, and joe, i suppose he will— the past. tom, thank you very much, and joe, i suppose he will be - and joe, i suppose he will be watching tv rather than going out for a birthday dinner. watching tv rather than going out fora birthday dinner. i’m watching tv rather than going out for a birthday dinner.— watching tv rather than going out for a birthday dinner. i'm going to maximise my _ for a birthday dinner. i'm going to maximise my day _ for a birthday dinner. i'm going to maximise my day and _ for a birthday dinner. i'm going to maximise my day and then i'm i maximise my day and then i'm going to do that today and then i will be set enough to tune in on my birthday. this is the second election that has been over my birthday. in election that has been over my birthda . :: ii' election that has been over my birthda . :: ::' ., , , .,f birthday. in 2001 it was put off her foot and mouth. _ birthday. in 2001 it was put off her foot and mouth. i— birthday. in 2001 it was put off her foot and mouth. i met _ birthday. in 2001 it was put off her foot and mouth. i met john - birthday. in 2001 it was put off her foot and mouth. i met john majorl birthday. in 2001 it was put off her i foot and mouth. i met john major and foot and mouth. i metjohn major and my birthday— foot and mouth. i metjohn major and my birthday last time. what foot and mouth. i met john ma'or and my birthday last time.i my birthday last time. what a treat! who arranged _ my birthday last time. what a treat! who arranged that? _ my birthday last time. what a treat! who arranged that? laughter - who arranged that? laughter that's all for this episode of newscast. we will be back with another one except it is going to be another one except it is going to be a late one because we have to watch the debate, then i have to somehow manage to get chris made chris mason, alex for and orsini david in the same place at the same time so we can talk about it and then tell

you about it. that will probably be hitting your feed i you about it. that will probably be hitting yourfeed i reckon before midnight on tuesday night, but i hope you don't mind staying up late and getting up early. goodbye. newscast from the bbc. of course, you can watch newscast every day of this election campaign. i am joining every day of this election campaign. iamjoining you every day of this election campaign. i am joining you live, speaking of newscast, somewhere over there is henry you can see, he is on tv. give us away. there he is. he was on newscast just us away. there he is. he was on newscastjust now. there he isjust now. of course, this is the spin room. this is where representatives from both labour and the conservatives are here already before the debate trying to put their party's message out. they want us to think after that debate tonight that their candidate has come out best. it's filling up with lots ofjournalists around the uk, all the political pack are here gearing up for that debate which is taking placejust over an hourfrom

now. well, i have a politician with me right now. siobhan, for keir starmer, the challenge is that he is riding high in the polls. he has more to lose if he puts a foot wrong, this could be damaging for him. ~ ., wrong, this could be damaging for him. ~ . , ., wrong, this could be damaging for him. ~ ., , ., , wrong, this could be damaging for him. ~ ., , ., , him. what you will see tonight is the choice _ him. what you will see tonight is the choice the _ him. what you will see tonight is the choice the country _ him. what you will see tonight is the choice the country is - him. what you will see tonight is the choice the country is facing l him. what you will see tonight is l the choice the country is facing on july the 4th, the clear choice of more of the same from a more of this cast that we've seen over 1a years with the tory party or a change with the labour party. a credible plan, something we know we can deliver if we were to win the next general election that would transform our country. we can stop the chaos, we can turn the page and we can start to rebuild our country, that is a choice that keir starmer will be making this evening in the case without this evening. that is what you will see in this debate. i will! you will see in this debate. i will ask one of _ you will see in this debate. i will ask one of your _ you will see in this debate. i will ask one of your colleagues i you will see in this debate. i will ask one of your colleagues at i you will see in this debate. i will ask one of your colleagues at one of this earlier as well, the country is much more familiar with rishi sunak,

there will be people tonight who will be watching this debate and won't really know much about keir starmer beyond the fact that he is leader of the opposition of the labour party. what do you think the world needs to know about sir keir starmer? you know him well. what do you think he needs to convey tonight? you think he needs to convey toniaht? ., ., , tonight? for voters across the country who — tonight? for voters across the country who don't _ tonight? for voters across the country who don't know i tonight? for voters across the country who don't know keir l tonight? for voters across the i country who don't know keir starmer so well, they are going to see a man who is passionate about our country, who is passionate about our country, who knows that cass and klein are not our future. they don't have to be our future, that is the result of political choices and he is somebody who will always, always put the country first. he is a country first party second kind of man. and he will be making about his case as a patriot for why he believes our country can be better than the chaos that we have seen with the conservative party and he will show that credible plan to get change in our country. he is not somebody that makes promises that he can't keep. so he is going to set up our proposals and some people will think they don't go far enough, but he has always said that we are never going to play fast and loose with the

nation 's money. we are never going to promise that we can do things that we know we can't. he will set out our first steps, that will put us on a trajectory to start changing our position stop and let me ask you this, because the campaign is all about the politicians putting forward what they want to be on the agenda. at something that has come up agenda. at something that has come up on the agenda in the last week or so is the way that sir keir starmer has handled the diane abbott issue. what lessons can be learned from that? firstly to be very clear, that's not something that keir starmer has directly handled. we have independent complaints processes. he have independent complaints processes-— have independent complaints processes. have independent complaints rocesses. , ., ., processes. he is the leader of the labour party- _ processes. he is the leader of the labour party. for— processes. he is the leader of the labour party. for this _ processes. he is the leader of the labour party. for this very - processes. he is the leader of the | labour party. for this very reason, there was tension _ labour party. for this very reason, there was tension because - labour party. for this very reason, there was tension because people | there was tension because people expect their leaders to be deciding what is happening in individual complaints processes, that is not how it works. he complaints processes, that is not how it works-— complaints processes, that is not how it works. ., ., , how it works. he did come out early and said that _ how it works. he did come out early and said that diane _ how it works. he did come out early and said that diane abbott... it's i and said that diane abbott... it's not how the _ and said that diane abbott... it�*s not how the labour party works any more, we adopted an independent complaints process a couple of years ago to deal with all complaints and mps, when complaints are made about them, are part of the same process. to think my point is... you will

make you think it's important because people are expecting regularly commentary for the leader of the party... my question wasn't that. i willjust come back and on that. i willjust come back and on that because my question was the perception has been that this hasn't worked out too well for the labour party and the way it was handled. i understand you have rules and regulations and processes, my question is what can you learn from that? i question is what can you learn from that? “ question is what can you learn from that? 4' ., , question is what can you learn from that? 4' .,, ,., ., that? i think the most important thing is--- _ that? i think the most important thing is... diane _ that? i think the most important thing is... diane is _ that? i think the most important thing is... diane is a _ that? i think the most important thing is... diane is a candidate l that? i think the most important l thing is... diane is a candidate for the labour party. i am sure she will be returned as a member of parliament. we enjoyed a lot of support as a party in her constituency and she is personally also very popular in parliament and has been. i expect her in due course to take her position as the next mother of the house of parliament, and diane is a labour candidate. i'm very pleased that all of those issues have been resolved. if there are lessons to learn about our processes and whether they work the way they should've done, this time around, that is something that the national executive will review as we always do after the general election. ., ~ �* always do after the general election. . ~ �* ., election. ok, and i think we've got ictures election. ok, and i think we've got pictures just _ election. ok, and i think we've got picturesjust now, _ election. ok, and i think we've got picturesjust now, to _ election. ok, and i think we've got picturesjust now, to pause - election. ok, and i think we've got picturesjust now, to pause to i election. ok, and i think we've got picturesjust now, to pause to you | pictures just now, to pause to you for a second of sir keir starmer

arriving here in salford for that debate. one more question why we see those pictures on the screen beside us, i have been speaking to voters in this part of the world, some of whom say they are concerned about labour's position on gaza and how it was handled. obviously counsellors quit over this, some on the front bench also stepped down. are you worried that that is going to take away some of your core voters who say they are just not going to vote? let me be very clear. we take no community or group of voters or indeed anyone in this country for granted. we are not complacent about the support we enjoy from different communities across our country and we know voters have been concerned and it is an issue of deep concern, it's an issue of deep concern for me personally as well. i can relate to the sense of despair people are feeling about what's been unfolding in gaza over the last few months. but what i would say is that the labour party has now been calling for some months for an immediate cease—fire to all fighting in israel, gaza and for us to move as quickly as we can to a peace process that finally delivers a two state

solution. that will be a top foreign policy priority for an incoming labour government.— policy priority for an incoming labour government. let's see if that's one _ labour government. let's see if that's one of — labour government. let's see if that's one of the _ labour government. let's see if that's one of the questions i labour government. let's see if that's one of the questions of l labour government. let's see if i that's one of the questions of the debate tonight. thank you very much for sharing that viewpoint there. as we say, we've just been showing you the pictures that sir keir starmer has now arrived at the debate venue. of course, things are getting closer to that nine o'clock kick—off. i'm also joined to that nine o'clock kick—off. i'm alsojoined by to that nine o'clock kick—off. i'm also joined by our deputy political editor. you are here to give me some of your own spin. your analysis on how you think the end party is handling this in the run—up and of course we will be talking to you afterwards. if you listen into that interview, what is your take on how labour are seeing all of this? i think it's really interesting the first thing that all labour politicians talk about this change. they know — politicians talk about this change. they know that that is a very powerful _ they know that that is a very powerful message for them after 14 years— powerful message for them after 14 years of— powerful message for them after 14 years of the conservatives being in power~ _ years of the conservatives being in power. people wanting a bit of a change. — power. people wanting a bit of a change, that they know that that is the word _ change, that they know that that is the word they are going to say most, i would _ the word they are going to say most, i would imagine. the word they are going to say most, iwould imagine. i the word they are going to say most, i would imagine. i think they are worried — i would imagine. i think they are worried about complacency. when the

polls show _ worried about complacency. when the polls show such a massive lead, what some _ polls show such a massive lead, what some other _ polls show such a massive lead, what some other politicians here have said you — some other politicians here have said you knock on the door and some people _ said you knock on the door and some people will— said you knock on the door and some people will be saying, labour is going _ people will be saying, labour is going to — people will be saying, labour is going to in any way you don't need my vote _ going to in any way you don't need my vote. they are worried about people _ my vote. they are worried about people who haven't made up their mind _ people who haven't made up their mind they— people who haven't made up their mind. they need them to get out there _ mind. they need them to get out there and — mind. they need them to get out there and vote. of course they do. not overpromising. saying we are not going _ not overpromising. saying we are not going to _ not overpromising. saying we are not going to promise all these things because — going to promise all these things because i— going to promise all these things because i think they feel that that is what _ because i think they feel that that is what happened under conservative governments. they also know that the economic— governments. they also know that the economic situation means there's going _ economic situation means there's going to — economic situation means there's going to be some very difficult decisions, a lot of the problems that there — decisions, a lot of the problems that there are will take a very long time to— that there are will take a very long time to fix — that there are will take a very long time to fix. but they've got to be careful— time to fix. but they've got to be careful because they need to inspire people _ careful because they need to inspire people to _ careful because they need to inspire people to come out and vote as well, so big _ people to come out and vote as well, so big balance between saying trust us but _ so big balance between saying trust us but also — so big balance between saying trust us but also we are going to change things so— us but also we are going to change things so much that they want you to come _ things so much that they want you to come out _ things so much that they want you to come out and vote. xlit'icki things so much that they want you to come out and vote.— come out and vote. vicki young, thank you _ come out and vote. vicki young, thank you so _ come out and vote. vicki young, thank you so much _ come out and vote. vicki young, thank you so much for— come out and vote. vicki young, thank you so much for the i come out and vote. vicki young, i thank you so much for the moment and of course, we will be speaking to a conservative person in the spin room shortly as well to get that party's take. so, keir starmer has now arrived at the debate venue, expect rishi sunak will be arriving shortly

as well. we will have full coverage, of course, here on the bbc news channel from us or to stay with us as that build—up and excitement continues as we get ever closer to that televised debate between keir starmer and rishi sunak. now it's time to take a look at the weather. hello. some decidedly cool air has been sinking southwards across the uk during today. tonight is certainly going to be quite a lot chillier than last night was, and over the next few days, it remains cool and breezy, a mix of sunshine and showers, cold enough over the very highest ground in scotland for some of those showers to be wintry. so during today, we've seen these frontal systems pushing southwards and eastwards. still a little bit of rain lingering for a time in the far south east. but behind those weather fronts, we are getting into this feed of cool air from the northwest. pretty brisk winds actually across the northern half of the uk. there's the last of that weather front clearing the southeast corner. and then overnight, yes, some showers, particularly up towards the northwest, but some lengthy, clear spells allowing temperatures to drop widely down into single digits, maybe very close to freezing across parts of northern scotland. so certainly a chillier start to tomorrow morning than we had this morning.

but it should be a bright start for many with some spells of sunshine. further south, not too many showers. further north, particularly northern england, northern ireland and scotland, there will be frequent showers, which, as i've mentioned, could be wintry over the very highest ground in scotland, say above 800 metres elevation. it's going to be windy across the northern half of the uk. breezy further south. but in the sunshine in the south, not feeling too bad, 17 degrees celsius, just 11 celsius for stornoway. average temperatures at this time of year should be around 15—20 celsius, so, actually, these values are touch below the average for the time of year. now, as we move into thursday, this area of low pressure will still be to the north of us. where you're closest to the center of the low across northern england, northern ireland and more especially scotland, you will continue to see frequent showers, again, wintry over the highest scottish mountains. further south, not as many showers, more spells of sunshine. temperatures, again, 11—17 celsius, maybe getting up to 18 celsiusby this stage.

now for friday, it looks like we'll see the showers joining together into a longer spell of rain for a time across parts of scotland. more cloud further south as well, a cloudier day likely on friday with the odd shower. temperatures maybe getting up to 18—19 celsius, but still really struggling across the north and the northwest of scotland. into the weekend, it turns a little bit less cool. temperatures climbing a touch. mostly dry in the south, some showers further north.

hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. it's far too high, this government has lost control. it is now twice as high as it was when we were in the eu - high as it was when we were in the eu — that's the irony of it. we recognise that companies like this will— we recognise that companies like

this will of course need some levels of net _ this will of course need some levels of net migration. but we also recognise _ of net migration. but we also recognise that migration puts pressure _ recognise that migration puts pressure on public services. getting the bounce — pressure on public services. getting the bounce rate is something that's long—overdue. we should deport people coming to britain _ we should deport people coming to britain illegally, _ we should deport people coming to britain illegally, and _ we should deport people coming to britain illegally, and we _ we should deport people coming to britain illegally, and we use - we should deport people coming to britain illegally, and we use to. i britain illegally, and we use to. under— britain illegally, and we use to. under the — britain illegally, and we use to. under the last _ britain illegally, and we use to. under the last labour- britain illegally, and we use to. i under the last labour government, britain illegally, and we use to. - under the last labour government, we afforded _ under the last labour government, we afforded to— under the last labour government, we afforded to 44,000 _ under the last labour government, we afforded to 44,000 people. _ under the last labour government, we afforded to 44,000 people. now i under the last labour government, we afforded to 44,000 people. now we i afforded to 44,000 people. now we are lucky— afforded to 44,000 people. now we are lucky if— afforded to 44,000 people. now we are lucky if we — afforded to 44,000 people. now we are lucky if we deport _ afforded to 44,000 people. now we are lucky if we deport more - afforded to 44,000 people. now we are lucky if we deport more than- are lucky if we deport more than five _ standing behind me at the podiums will be two men, one of whom will become the next trimester of the uk. —— the next prime minister of the uk. on the panel is charlotte wright, the bbc�*s political editor for the south east, and mike stevens, bbc lancashire's political reporter. tonight — the first televised debate of the campaign. with labour in a commanding position in the polls, can rishi sunakfind some momentum? or will sir keir starmer cement his position as the odds on favourite to become the next prime minister?

the new leaderfor reform uk, nigel farage, has called