some angry exchanges between include some angry exchanges between angela rayner and the conservative leader of the house penny mordaunt. we will come to that shortly. of course, central to the beginning of the debate, the row over the prime minister's decision to leave the beachesin minister's decision to leave the beaches in normandy, decision he's apologise for. it was penny mordaunt, enable reserve 5, someone who has an honorary command in unable forces, who represents portsmouth, he was there for the conservatives to give their response. we will play that shortly, and will get to the clips and how the parties see it. what did you make of it?— the parties see it. what did you make of it? , . . ., , .,, make of it? very watchable. it was uuite make of it? very watchable. it was quite courteous, _ make of it? very watchable. it was quite courteous, quite _ make of it? very watchable. it was| quite courteous, quite satisfactory. we heard fairy from everybody. quite an interesting focus when you think of the flashpoints between angela rayner and penny mordaunt. one was

overtaxed, interesting to hear penny mordaunt repeat the £2000 burger that we spent a lot of time dissecting the credibility of —— 2000 figure. interesting to see penny mordaunt went there again. secondly, an interesting angry exchange between penny mordaunt and angela rayner on defence. i thought that was telling, penny mordaunt keen to talk about the nuclear deterrence. another thing which stood out is stephen flynn, the snp leader, the applause he got, the first to get rounds of applause. an interesting topic that got applause from the audience. specially selected to represent different voters, a carefully made of audience there. interestingly on brexit, he talked about the damage the economy, talked about the damage the economy, talked about the damage the economy, talked about an end to the demonisation of migration, which got around of applause and free tuition fees in scotland. i think the

strategies, it became a debate between labour and the tories, and the smaller party strategy was to pick holes in both of their arguments. an interesting dynamic, but really well and well presented. let's go some of the highlights, starting with out debate on defence in the armed forces and rishi sunak�*s early departure from the d—day commemorations. it was nigel farage who raised it first. let's listen to him and the response from penny mordaunt.— listen to him and the response from penny mordaunt. respect our veterans and those with — penny mordaunt. respect our veterans and those with the _ penny mordaunt. respect our veterans and those with the average _ penny mordaunt. respect our veterans and those with the average age - penny mordaunt. respect our veterans and those with the average age of- and those with the average age of 100 deserted by the prime minister in normandy which was a complete and utter disgrace and shows us we have a very— utter disgrace and shows us we have a very own _ utter disgrace and shows us we have a very own patriotic prime minister. it was _ a very own patriotic prime minister. it was dreadful. penny mordaunt, response about, leaving before the end of the day. response about, leaving before the end of the day-— response about, leaving before the end of the day. what happened was comletel end of the day. what happened was completely wrong —

end of the day. what happened was completely wrong and _ end of the day. what happened was completely wrong and the - end of the day. what happened was completely wrong and the prime . completely wrong and the prime minister— completely wrong and the prime minister has _ completely wrong and the prime minister has rightly— completely wrong and the prime minister has rightly apologise, l minister has rightly apologise, apologise _ minister has rightly apologise, apologise to _ minister has rightly apologise, apologise to veterans, - minister has rightly apologise, apologise to veterans, but - minister has rightly apologise, | apologise to veterans, but also minister has rightly apologise, . apologise to veterans, but also to all others — apologise to veterans, but also to all others because _ apologise to veterans, but also to all others because he _ apologise to veterans, but also to all others because he was- all others because he was representing _ all others because he was representing all— all others because he was representing all of- all others because he was representing all of us. - all others because he was| representing all of us. i'm all others because he was- representing all of us. i'm from portsmouth. _ representing all of us. i'm from portsmouth, i've _ representing all of us. i'm from portsmouth, i've been - representing all of us. i'm from portsmouth, i've been defence| portsmouth, i've been defence secretary. _ portsmouth, i've been defence secretary. and _ portsmouth, i've been defence secretary, and my— portsmouth, i've been defence secretary, and my wish - portsmouth, i've been defence secretary, and my wish at - portsmouth, i've been defence secretary, and my wish at the i portsmouth, i've been defence i secretary, and my wish at the end portsmouth, i've been defence - secretary, and my wish at the end of this week_ secretary, and my wish at the end of this week is — secretary, and my wish at the end of this week is all _ secretary, and my wish at the end of this week is all our _ secretary, and my wish at the end of this week is all our veterans - secretary, and my wish at the end of this week is all our veterans feel - this week is all our veterans feel completely— this week is all our veterans feel completely treasured. _ this week is all our veterans feel completely treasured. i'm - this week is all our veterans feell completely treasured. i'm hoping this week is all our veterans feel. completely treasured. i'm hoping to make _ completely treasured. i'm hoping to make to _ completely treasured. i'm hoping to make to convince _ completely treasured. i'm hoping to make to convince you _ completely treasured. i'm hoping to make to convince you of— completely treasured. i'm hoping to make to convince you of some - completely treasured. i'm hoping tol make to convince you of some things that are _ make to convince you of some things that are important _ make to convince you of some things that are important to _ make to convince you of some things that are important to them, - make to convince you of some things that are important to them, their. that are important to them, their legacy. _ that are important to them, their legacy. and — that are important to them, their legacy. and i— that are important to them, their legacy, and i couldn't _ that are important to them, their legacy, and i couldn't do - that are important to them, their legacy, and i couldn't do that- that are important to them, their legacy, and i couldn't do that if. that are important to them, their legacy, and i couldn't do that if ii legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't _ legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't straight _ legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't straight with _ legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't straight with you - legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't straight with you on - legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't straight with you on thati wasn't straight with you on that issue — wasn't straight with you on that issue. ~ ., ,, wasn't straight with you on that issue. ~ ., i. ., wasn't straight with you on that issue. ~ ., ., , issue. would you have left d-day earl ? i issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't— issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't go _ issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't go to _ issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't go to d-day. - issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't go to d-day. whati early? i didn't go to d-day. what ha--ened early? i didn't go to d-day. what happened was — early? i didn't go to d-day. what happened was very _ early? i didn't go to d-day. what happened was very wrong, - early? i didn't go to d-day. what happened was very wrong, the i early? i didn't go to d-day. what - happened was very wrong, the prime minister— happened was very wrong, the prime minister has — happened was very wrong, the prime minister has apologised _ happened was very wrong, the prime minister has apologised for _ happened was very wrong, the prime minister has apologised for that. - minister has apologised for that. let's _ minister has apologised for that. let's get — minister has apologised for that. let's get some _ minister has apologised for that. let's get some response - minister has apologised for that. let's get some response to - minister has apologised for that. let's get some response to it. i minister has apologised for that. . let's get some response to it. laura is with me. penny mordaunt said it was very wrong of the prime minister not to be there yesterday. has he let you down? it’s not to be there yesterday. has he let you down?— not to be there yesterday. has he let ou down? �*, , ., ., let you down? it's been a tough day, i think let you down? it's been a tough day, i think rishi — let you down? it's been a tough day, i think rishi sunak_ let you down? it's been a tough day, i think rishi sunak has _ let you down? it's been a tough day, i think rishi sunak has been - let you down? it's been a tough day, i think rishi sunak has been clear . i think rishi sunak has been clear he made a mistake. i respect about him, he fronts up things. it was a

big mistake. ithink him, he fronts up things. it was a big mistake. i think penny was clear that what is important is our record on veterans, we are proud as a country that they have provided and we have tried to rally that as much as we can. i we have tried to rally that as much as we can-— we have tried to rally that as much as we can. ., , ., as we can. i looked at the polls and it is one of — as we can. i looked at the polls and it is one of the _ as we can. i looked at the polls and it is one of the areas, _ as we can. i looked at the polls and it is one of the areas, defence, - it is one of the areas, defence, where you lead labour. the prime minister has driven, pardon the pun, a tank through it. you set out a policy on armed services, you had a prime minister who said he couldn't wait for the afternoon, i will go home for an interview with itv. taste home for an interview with itv. we talked home for an interview with itv. - talked about defence and it was illuminating. the most important thing set aside was what penny said to angela, you've lost all credibility on the nuclear deterrent because you have said you don't support it. the nuclear deterrent is fundamental to our security. if we are talking about defence, what is really important, what we know is the labour party have undermined it.

it is vital. you are chief said of the treasury. you are trying to put 30,000 young people into the armed forces. we are at 70 —— 72,000, the lowest before the napoleonic wars. money has gone up in terms of how much we have put on in real terms. what are we saying is we will put 2.5% in two defence by 2030. labour haven't committed, labour they would do it. it isn't clear how it is being funded. i'm sure they were clarified. it's a big dividing line, a clear choice at this election. in terms of defence and spending, and people at home need to think about it. ~ ., people at home need to think about it. ~ . ., , ., people at home need to think about it. what would you say to yourself servant in the _ it. what would you say to yourself servant in the treasury _ it. what would you say to yourself servant in the treasury this - it. what would you say to yourself servant in the treasury this weekl servant in the treasury this week who you effectively have thrown under a bus? they are not independent, are they? ida. under a bus? they are not

independent, are they? no, no. it is a loni independent, are they? no, no. it is a long established _ independent, are they? no, no. it is a long established process _ independent, are they? no, no. it is a long established process used - a long established process used frequently by opposition parties, going back to the 19805. there are 27 co5ting5 in the paper, 21 are done by the treasury civil servants, we have a couple where we have taken labour's claim5. experts say the energy plan will cost more money. we took labour�*s figures. we have put them together, it is right the civil servants aren't involved in how we present a paper. the costings involved are from the treasury. it was clear that was how it was drawn up. was clear that was how it was drawn u . _ ., , , ., was clear that was how it was drawn u n . ., , , ., ., , was clear that was how it was drawn up. fraser nelson has done the same thin for up. fraser nelson has done the same thing for the — up. fraser nelson has done the same thing for the spectator. _ up. fraser nelson has done the same thing for the spectator. he _ up. fraser nelson has done the same thing for the spectator. he said - up. fraser nelson has done the same thing for the spectator. he said it - thing for the spectator. he said it would be 3000.— thing for the spectator. he said it would be 3000. what is important is that the selection, _ would be 3000. what is important is that the selection, we've _ would be 3000. what is important is that the selection, we've got to - that the selection, we've got to have a clear choice about policies and how they are funded. what the labour party are talking about process rather than what they are putting forward. it is legitimate to state you will raise taxes in order

to do more breakfast clubs. that is an argument you could have. but they are trying to say they would do these policies are not pay for them. it's not ok. the way the government works is we have to show how things are paid for, the autumn statement and budgets. and we have been at the whole way. what we have been clear in where we've made commitments now, about how we fund them. thea;r in where we've made commitments now, about how we fund them.— about how we fund them. they say you haven't been — about how we fund them. they say you haven't been clear, _ about how we fund them. they say you haven't been clear, and _ about how we fund them. they say you haven't been clear, and that _ about how we fund them. they say you haven't been clear, and that you - about how we fund them. they say you haven't been clear, and that you can i haven't been clear, and that you can either cut public services or you can put taxes up. you won't find the growth in the short—term in order to do what you both are saying. growth in the short-term in order to do what you both are saying.- do what you both are saying. that's not about the _ do what you both are saying. that's not about the costing _ do what you both are saying. that's not about the costing of _ do what you both are saying. that's not about the costing of individual i not about the costing of individual policies, it's about the amount not being enough. on that, the amount of money we will spend will be higher in real terms by the end of next parliament. by about £80 billion. real terms spending will go up, we've been clear about it. haifa

real terms spending will go up, we've been clear about it. how can ou have we've been clear about it. how can you have a — we've been clear about it. how can you have a debate _ we've been clear about it. how can you have a debate about _ we've been clear about it. how can you have a debate about taxation l we've been clear about it. how can i you have a debate about taxation and put all this on labour when you are sitting on top of the highest tax hike in 70 years?— sitting on top of the highest tax hike in 70 ears? ~ �* ., ., ., ~ hike in 70 years? we've had to make difficult decisions. _ hike in 70 years? we've had to make difficult decisions. we _ hike in 70 years? we've had to make difficult decisions. we had _ hike in 70 years? we've had to make difficult decisions. we had to - hike in 70 years? we've had to make difficult decisions. we had to spend i difficult decisions. we had to spend a lot of money on covid and had the energy price spikes because of the war in ukraine. we had to make difficult decisions. everybody understands it. we have carefully, we are bringing the tax burden down. the national insurance cuts, worth £900 on average, a direction we would go in and further work. that is what you set out from us. in contrast to the £2000 the labour party will put on every family if they follow through. they may say they follow through. they may say they won't do the policies, but they help to have the conversations. you can't let them say it's a process. either they do the policies or down.

i look forward to that. did penny mordaunt look like a leader? she was fantastic, magnificent. _ mordaunt look like a leader? she was fantastic, magnificent. she _ mordaunt look like a leader? she was fantastic, magnificent. she did - mordaunt look like a leader? she was fantastic, magnificent. she did a - fantastic, magnificent. she did a brilliant job. _ fantastic, magnificent. she did a brilliant job. more _ fantastic, magnificent. she did a brilliant job. more prime - fantastic, magnificent. she did a | brilliant job. more prime minister brilliantjob. more prime minister real? brilliant “ob. more prime minister real? ., �* , brilliant “ob. more prime minister real? . �* , ., , ., real? that's not true. penny did an amazin: real? that's not true. penny did an amazing job. _ real? that's not true. penny did an amazingjob. i— real? that's not true. penny did an amazing job, i was _ real? that's not true. penny did an amazing job, i was very _ real? that's not true. penny did an amazing job, i was very proud. - amazing job, i was very proud. laura, thank you. let's focus on it while we invite labour into it for a response. we will focus on taxation, between labour and conservatives, most of it. ., ., between labour and conservatives, most of it. . ., ., . . between labour and conservatives, mostofit. . . . ., most of it. have a watch. we have not to most of it. have a watch. we have got to cut — most of it. have a watch. we have got to cut people's _ most of it. have a watch. we have got to cut people's taxes - most of it. have a watch. we have got to cut people's taxes and - got to cut people's taxes and alleviate burdens on business. angela rayner and the labour party, keir starmer confirmed that, they will put up your taxes by £2000. that is a lie. your government... the record level in 70 years. taste

the record level in 70 years. we have been _ the record level in 70 years. - have been cutting taxes, we will continue to cut taxes. £2000. penny mordaunt, continue to cut taxes. £2000. penny mordaunt. you — continue to cut taxes. £2000. penny mordaunt, you are _ continue to cut taxes. £2000. penny mordaunt, you are using _ continue to cut taxes. £2000. penny mordaunt, you are using a _ continue to cut taxes. £2000. penny mordaunt, you are using a figure - mordaunt, you are using a figure which has been criticised by the uk statistics watchdog. who; which has been criticised by the uk statistics watchdog.— statistics watchdog. why don't you stand by your _ statistics watchdog. why don't you stand by your record? _ statistics watchdog. why don't you stand by your record? record - statistics watchdog. why don't you | stand by your record? record levels of taxes _ stand by your record? record levels of taxes on — stand by your record? record levels of taxes on working people. 26 separate — of taxes on working people. 26 separate tax hikes in the last parliament. 12 new taxes... that is rubbish _ parliament. 12 new taxes... that is rubbish we — parliament. 12 new taxes... that is rubbish. we can guarantee we will not raise _ rubbish. we can guarantee we will not raise taxes for working people. £2000 _ not raise taxes for working people. £2000 per— not raise taxes for working people. £2000 per working household. which policies will you take out of your manifesto? it policies will you take out of your manifesto?— policies will you take out of your manifesto? , ., . ., manifesto? it is timethat micro it is time to hear— manifesto? it is timethat micro it is time to hear from _ manifesto? it is timethat micro it is time to hear from the - manifesto? it is timethat micro it is time to hear from the others. l is time to hear from the others. angela rayner. that was terribly dignified. not very, was it? and so

it went on. jonathan reynolds is with me. maybe you could respond to some of what we heard from laura trott, who is returning to return to the 2000 figure. she said you need to be clear where it is coming from. can you question it's a lie, it has been established to be alive. they've got to explain why they are lying, but it is a lie. their strategy tonight, which was to repeat the lie, was a mistake. it will bring into question their integrity. i was taken aback by how hard penny mordaunt went into the prime minister. our attack is on their chaos, and if they get through it, that chaos would continue. that is down to them. for us, angela rayner did exactly what we wanted, talk to the country, use the connections with people to tell them if you want change, it will be delivered, tangible difference. it

is labour who can do it. straightforward talking. this list of 20 policies you put forward, how will you spend the money and find the money? it's not all coming from growth, and the iff have said you can't find it in taxation unless you put taxes up. fin can't find it in taxation unless you put taxes up— can't find it in taxation unless you put taxes up. on the commitments that form our— put taxes up. on the commitments that form our sick _ put taxes up. on the commitments that form our sick steps, _ put taxes up. on the commitments that form our sick steps, those - put taxes up. on the commitments that form our sick steps, those are | that form our sick steps, those are laid out as to how they will be funded, —— six steps. whether it is taxation of private education, whether the changes to how private equity is taxed. this question about the report. i accept what they are saying, if you were to continue with an economy performed as it has for 14 an economy performed as it has for 1h years, why are taxes hybrid 1a years, why are taxes hybrid services poor question it is because growth is low. you should part of our agenda is correcting it. it is changes to the planning,

apprenticeship levy, to how brexit works. i recognised the case they are making which is more of the same will give you even worse outcomes than for 1h years. that is why we believe practical things we put forward can make that difference. so we aren't in a return to the austerity which is because so much damage. austerity which is because so much damaie. , a, ., ., damage. penny mordaunt pointed to the cut in spending _ damage. penny mordaunt pointed to the cut in spending in _ damage. penny mordaunt pointed to the cut in spending in wales, - damage. penny mordaunt pointed to the cut in spending in wales, where l the cut in spending in wales, where labour is in charge, four times the nhs budget has been cut. the waiting list are four times as big. this nhs budget has been cut. the waiting list are four times as big.— list are four times as big. this is a uk general — list are four times as big. this is a uk general election, _ list are four times as big. this is a uk general election, and - list are four times as big. this is a uk general election, and it. list are four times as big. this is| a uk general election, and it will be based on the record of the incumbent conservative government. them saying look over here, they've got to acknowledge their record. in wales it is a straightforward comparison. what the uk footprint is for any service will have an impression on the devolved governments. welsh college will defend in a welsh election there record. this is about the uk general

election. flan record. this is about the uk general election. ., record. this is about the uk general election. . , ., election. can we trust labour with the deterrent _ election. can we trust labour with the deterrent question _ election. can we trust labour with the deterrent question as - election. can we trust labour with the deterrent question as penny l the deterrent question as penny mordaunt said, half the shadow front bench voted to scrap trident, and angela rayner was one. i bench voted to scrap trident, and angela rayner was one.— angela rayner was one. i don't believe that _ angela rayner was one. i don't believe that is _ angela rayner was one. i don't believe that is true. _ angela rayner was one. i don't believe that is true. yes, - angela rayner was one. i don't believe that is true. yes, theyl angela rayner was one. i don't i believe that is true. yes, they can trust us because not only are we committed to the deterrent and nato, we were the political party in many ways the driving force for the creation of nato, for the nuclear deterrent at the end of world war ii was not its one of our legacies. our role in the conflicts in making sure we were protecting interest of british people are putting security first. that is why people can trust us. i first. that is why people can trust us. ., first. that is why people can trust us, ., ., ., " first. that is why people can trust us. . ., ., ~ ., first. that is why people can trust us. i am looking at your record, you set out a £28 _ us. i am looking at your record, you set out a £28 billion _ us. i am looking at your record, you set out a £28 billion green - us. i am looking at your record, you set out a £28 billion green fund - us. i am looking at your record, you set out a £28 billion green fund andi set out a £28 billion green fund and u—turn. liz set out a £28 billion green fund and u-turn. , , , , u-turn. liz truss blew up the economy. — u-turn. liz truss blew up the economy, interest _ u-turn. liz truss blew up the economy, interest rates - u-turn. liz truss blew up the i economy, interest rates went u-turn. liz truss blew up the - economy, interest rates went up. you have to change your plans. there's no point telling people you can see the devastation caused by a liz truss and so there is no impact. if

the cost of borrowing goes up, it is notjust more to borrow but to service the debt. we were clear but we still have the most ambitious programme on the green prosperity plan, on efficiency, energy... i5 programme on the green prosperity plan, on efficiency, energy... is it ambitious — plan, on efficiency, energy... is it ambitious because _ plan, on efficiency, energy... is it ambitious because you had your meeting today and you will have heard the response from unite and momentum, who say it is cautious and not ambition. it is momentum, who say it is cautious and not ambition-— not ambition. it is the biggest programme — not ambition. it is the biggest programme in _ not ambition. it is the biggest programme in british - not ambition. it is the biggest programme in british history. not ambition. it is the biggest| programme in british history if not ambition. it is the biggest - programme in british history if we get the chance. there are many things that i would know to be able to say we will be able to get rid of, but they all cost money. we can't say how we can paper it. if i was here pledging the money to get rid of the two child limit, you might ask about the benefit cap, housing allowance. there are so many problems. i acknowledge it, we do. that is why our steps answer the question of that is so much going wrong, why do you start question

thatis wrong, why do you start question that is where you start and the aspirations for the national renewal all come from it. it is aspirations for the national renewal all come from it.— all come from it. it is important i asked you _ all come from it. it is important i asked you because _ all come from it. it is important i asked you because one _ all come from it. it is important i asked you because one of - all come from it. it is important i asked you because one of the i asked you because one of the audience questions tonight was about the promises made in a campaign like this. that once the party gets into government, they aren't followed through. keir starmer set out a platform of policies when he ran for the leadership, which is almost entirely scrapped. i the leadership, which is almost entirely scrapped.— entirely scrapped. i don't think that is true _ entirely scrapped. i don't think that is true because _ entirely scrapped. i don't think that is true because if - entirely scrapped. i don't think that is true because if you - entirely scrapped. i don't think that is true because if you look entirely scrapped. i don't think i that is true because if you look at his ambitions on climate, housing, the economy, there is reflected. in the economy, there is reflected. in the leadership election he set out his principles that he wishes to be judged upon. it's not the same as a manifesto. you can look at keir starmer, his record, public servant. the fact he went into politics motivated by public service. look at what he's offering. if you becomes prime minister, that a consistent thread, decency, commitment to

public service, to change, so working people have better lives. just before i let you go, the line tonight from jonathan ashworth was that you will recognise palestinian statehood before the peace process is concluded. are you prepared to have a conversation with the israeli government about it? taste have a conversation with the israeli government about it?— have a conversation with the israeli government about it? we have had a commitment — government about it? we have had a commitment to _ government about it? we have had a commitment to recognising - government about it? we have had a commitment to recognising a - commitment to recognising a palestinian state. now. i think if you look at understandably how frustrated everybody is about the human suffering on each side of the conflict, you realise there's a generation of british people who have not seen a meaningful peace process. it's different to when i was young when you saw tangible steps going forward. we've got to make the conversation not about if there is peace in israel and palestine, but how we deliberate and what it looks like an recognising policy and statehood is a step to it. let's look at the peace settlement, not whether or not it

happens. i settlement, not whether or not it ha ens. ., settlement, not whether or not it ha ens. . ., settlement, not whether or not it ha ens. ., ., i. ., happens. i might have got your name wron: at happens. i might have got your name wrong at the — happens. i might have got your name wrong at the beginning. _ happens. i might have got your name wrong at the beginning. if— happens. i might have got your name wrong at the beginning. if i _ happens. i might have got your name wrong at the beginning. ifi did, - wrong at the beginning. if i did, i'm sorry. i was grasping at my notes for the questions, so my apologies. lovely to see you. right, let's focus on the spending on health, another big issue in the debate. let's get that and talk about it. ., _, , about it. there are countries daughters. _ about it. there are countries daughters, france, - about it. there are countries daughters, france, that - about it. there are countries daughters, france, that has| about it. there are countriesl daughters, france, that has a different way of funding the nhs. it is like those who can afford through their taxes pay into an insurance tax. those don't, so it is for the mutual benefit. it is managed as if it was a private company, and their returns on stroke, heart and cancer are better than ours for the same sum of money. we have a fully functioning nhs... we are not spending our money properly. dacey coo er, spending our money properly. dacey cooper. you — spending our money properly. dacey cooper. you have — spending our money properly. dacey

cooper, you have to _ spending our money properly. dacey cooper, you have to make _ spending our money properly. dacey cooper, you have to make it - spending our money properly. dacey cooper, you have to make it free. the kings fund have done an analysis of models _ the kings fund have done an analysis of models and they don't make a difference — of models and they don't make a difference to health outcomes. what makes _ difference to health outcomes. what makes a _ difference to health outcomes. what makes a difference is the amount of money— makes a difference is the amount of money you — makes a difference is the amount of money you put in. no, makes a difference is the amount of money you put in— makes a difference is the amount of money you put in._ in i money you put in. no, no, no. in france it— money you put in. no, no, no. in france it works. _ money you put in. no, no, no. in france it works. well, _ money you put in. no, no, no. in france it works. well, a - money you put in. no, no, no. in france it works. well, a lot - money you put in. no, no, no. in france it works. well, a lot of. money you put in. no, no, no. in| france it works. well, a lot of the debate was about how much money that is in the economy for our public services. only one appearance tonight about the big elephants in the room, brexit and how it affected the room, brexit and how it affected the uk economy, something stephen flynn turn to. the uk economy, something stephen flynn turn to-— flynn turn to. that is why at this election you _ flynn turn to. that is why at this election you need _ flynn turn to. that is why at this election you need to _ flynn turn to. that is why at this election you need to ignore - flynn turn to. that is why at this election you need to ignore the l election you need to ignore the snake oil salesperson who delivered brexit and challenge the labour party and the conservative party about why they aren't seeking to rejoin the single market, why they are seeking to double down on making sure we return to freedom of movement. our experts are at a record high. penny, you know brexit

has wiped a0 billions pounds worth of tax receipt out of the uk economy. you did it because you were terrified of nigel farage. the worrying thing for me is the silence of the labour party when it comes to the damage brexit, silence on £80 billion of cuts, on brexit. the public deserves better and the snp will provided. public deserves better and the snp will provided-— will provided. let's get the reaction from _ will provided. let's get the reaction from some - will provided. let's get the reaction from some of- will provided. let's get the l reaction from some of other will provided. let's get the - reaction from some of other parties. here in an independent capacity, not talking for the snp is. and the deputy leader of reform uk. thank you for coming. we were hearing from stephen flynn. on that specific issue, why do you think it's not part of the debate?— issue, why do you think it's not part of the debate? because there's a conspiracy — part of the debate? because there's a conspiracy of _ part of the debate? because there's a conspiracy of silence, _ part of the debate? because there's a conspiracy of silence, the - a conspiracy of silence, the language he used, around westminster parties and the way they operate,

meaning brexit has been accepted despite the harm. it's not in labour�*s aim to raise it. it's not in the tories's interest to raise it because it exposes how bad it was. stephen flynn was the only one saying this has done harm, don't damage and we shouldn't be accepting it. he will be pleased with the performance, as will be snp, because his goal was to position the others as being the same, arguing with each other. he did that really well. david, he said don't believe what this snake oil salesman, nigel farage, is offering you. brexit has been an unmitigated disaster. he is incorrect. been an unmitigated disaster. he is incorrect- we _ been an unmitigated disaster. he is incorrect. we haven't _ been an unmitigated disaster. he is incorrect. we haven't done brexit properly. — incorrect. we haven't done brexit properly, we have annexed northern ireland _

properly, we have annexed northern ireland it _ properly, we have annexed northern ireland it is— properly, we have annexed northern ireland. it is a travesty, it should no. ireland. it is a travesty, it should go the _ ireland. it is a travesty, it should go. the point is to bring back sovereignty to the uk, to make a great _ sovereignty to the uk, to make a great again. the whole deal was wrong — great again. the whole deal was wrong. theresa may let us down in the way— wrong. theresa may let us down in the way she — wrong. theresa may let us down in the way she bowed down to the eu. she did _ the way she bowed down to the eu. she did that to keep the northern ireland border open. but she did that to keep the northern ireland border open.— she did that to keep the northern ireland border open. but what they have done is _ ireland border open. but what they have done is a _ ireland border open. but what they have done is a mess _ ireland border open. but what they have done is a mess because - ireland border open. but what they - have done is a mess because northern ireland _ have done is a mess because northern ireland is— have done is a mess because northern ireland is no— have done is a mess because northern ireland is no longer part of the uk. we have _ ireland is no longer part of the uk. we have put a border in i received, which _ we have put a border in i received, which is _ we have put a border in i received, which is unacceptable. did we have put a border in i received, which is unacceptable.— which is unacceptable. did brexit net which is unacceptable. did brexit get enough _ which is unacceptable. did brexit get enough of — which is unacceptable. did brexit get enough of an _ which is unacceptable. did brexit get enough of an airing - which is unacceptable. did brexit get enough of an airing question | get enough of an airing question mark if only there had been some more. it mark if only there had been some more. ., ., ., ., more. it got more than it had in the rest. it is true _ more. it got more than it had in the rest. it is true of _ more. it got more than it had in the rest. it is true of the _ more. it got more than it had in the rest. it is true of the parties - rest. it is true of the parties don't — rest. it is true of the parties don't want _ rest. it is true of the parties don't want to _ rest. it is true of the parties don't want to discuss - rest. it is true of the parties don't want to discuss it. - rest. it is true of the parties. don't want to discuss it. partly because — don't want to discuss it. partly because of— don't want to discuss it. partly because of fatigue _ don't want to discuss it. partly because of fatigue of - don't want to discuss it. partly because of fatigue of voters i don't want to discuss it. partly l because of fatigue of voters who don't want to discuss it. partly - because of fatigue of voters who are sick of— because of fatigue of voters who are sick of it _ because of fatigue of voters who are sick of it. negotiating _ because of fatigue of voters who are sick of it. negotiating is _ because of fatigue of voters who are sick of it. negotiating is and - because of fatigue of voters who are sick of it. negotiating is and so - sick of it. negotiating is and so on. sick of it. negotiating is and so on i_ sick of it. negotiating is and so on iwas— sick of it. negotiating is and so on i was glad _ sick of it. negotiating is and so on. i was glad to _ sick of it. negotiating is and so on. i was glad to see _ sick of it. negotiating is and so on. i was glad to see it - sick of it. negotiating is and so on. i was glad to see it getting| on. i was glad to see it getting airing — on. i was glad to see it getting airing i— on. i was glad to see it getting airing i know— on. i was glad to see it getting airing. i know most _ on. i was glad to see it getting airing. i know most people - on. i was glad to see it getting airing. i know most people are on. i was glad to see it getting - airing. i know most people are fed up. airing. i know most people are fed up we _ airing. i know most people are fed up. we didn't— airing. i know most people are fed up. we didn't have _

airing. i know most people are fed up. we didn't have a _ airing. i know most people are fed up. we didn't have a discussion i up. we didn't have a discussion about— up. we didn't have a discussion about the — up. we didn't have a discussion about the right _ up. we didn't have a discussion about the right kind _ up. we didn't have a discussion about the right kind of- up. we didn't have a discussion about the right kind of brexit, i up. we didn't have a discussion l about the right kind of brexit, we haven't— about the right kind of brexit, we haven't discussed _ about the right kind of brexit, we haven't discussed it _ about the right kind of brexit, we haven't discussed it in _ about the right kind of brexit, we haven't discussed it in the - about the right kind of brexit, wei haven't discussed it in the general election— haven't discussed it in the general election campaign. _ haven't discussed it in the general election campaign. inihili— haven't discussed it in the general election campaign.— haven't discussed it in the general election campaign. why are the main arties so election campaign. why are the main parties so low _ election campaign. why are the main parties so low to _ election campaign. why are the main parties so low to talk _ election campaign. why are the main parties so low to talk about - election campaign. why are the main parties so low to talk about the - parties so low to talk about the benefits of migration? i parties so low to talk about the benefits of migration?- parties so low to talk about the benefits of migration? i think they know what they — benefits of migration? i think they know what they hear _ benefits of migration? i think they know what they hear that - benefits of migration? i think they know what they hear that people i benefits of migration? i think they i know what they hear that people do have concerns — know what they hear that people do have concerns about _ know what they hear that people do have concerns about the _ know what they hear that people do have concerns about the impact of. have concerns about the impact of migration — have concerns about the impact of migration in— have concerns about the impact of migration. in terms _ have concerns about the impact of migration. in terms of— have concerns about the impact of migration. in terms of housing - have concerns about the impact of| migration. in terms of housing and public— migration. in terms of housing and public services, _ migration. in terms of housing and public services, it _ migration. in terms of housing and public services, it has _ migration. in terms of housing and public services, it has become - migration. in terms of housing and public services, it has become a i public services, it has become a stick— public services, it has become a stick to— public services, it has become a stick to beat— public services, it has become a stick to beat them _ public services, it has become a stick to beat them with. - public services, it has become a stick to beat them with. they i public services, it has become a| stick to beat them with. they do sometimes _ stick to beat them with. they do sometimes talk— stick to beat them with. they do sometimes talk about _ stick to beat them with. they do sometimes talk about them. - stick to beat them with. they do sometimes talk about them. toi stick to beat them with. they do i sometimes talk about them. to be frank. _ sometimes talk about them. to be frank. there's— sometimes talk about them. to be frank. there's a _ sometimes talk about them. to be frank, there's a judgment - sometimes talk about them. to be frank, there's a judgment call- sometimes talk about them. to bei frank, there's a judgment call made that you _ frank, there's a judgment call made that you say— frank, there's a judgment call made that you say the _ frank, there's a judgment call made that you say the truth, _ frank, there's a judgment call made that you say the truth, which - frank, there's a judgment call made that you say the truth, which is - that you say the truth, which is businesses _ that you say the truth, which is businesses are _ that you say the truth, which is businesses are crying - that you say the truth, which is businesses are crying out - that you say the truth, which is businesses are crying out for. that you say the truth, which is . businesses are crying out for more immigration — businesses are crying out for more immigration because _ businesses are crying out for more immigration because there - businesses are crying out for more immigration because there is - businesses are crying out for more immigration because there is a - immigration because there is a skills— immigration because there is a skills gap. _ immigration because there is a skills gap. and _ immigration because there is a skills gap, and there _ immigration because there is a skills gap, and there needs- immigration because there is a skills gap, and there needs toi immigration because there is a i skills gap, and there needs to be immigration because there is a - skills gap, and there needs to be a bridge _ skills gap, and there needs to be a bridge for— skills gap, and there needs to be a bridge for people _ skills gap, and there needs to be a bridge for people to _ skills gap, and there needs to be a bridge for people to comment. - skills gap, and there needs to be a bridge for people to comment. it l bridge for people to comment. it doesn't~~ — bridge for people to comment. it doesn't~~ it— bridge for people to comment. it doesn't~~ it is— bridge for people to comment. it doesn't... it is not— bridge for people to comment. it doesn't... it is not playing - bridge for people to comment. it doesn't... it is not playing well. bridge for people to comment. it| doesn't... it is not playing well in the media — doesn't... it is not playing well in the media or— doesn't... it is not playing well in the media or doorstep. _ doesn't... it is not playing well in the media or doorstep. that - doesn't... it is not playing well in l the media or doorstep. that means they shy— the media or doorstep. that means they shy away — the media or doorstep. that means they shy away with _ the media or doorstep. that means they shy away with it. _ the media or doorstep. that means they shy away with it. but- the media or doorstep. that means they shy away with it.— they shy away with it. but the ublic they shy away with it. but the public doesn't _ they shy away with it. but the public doesn't say _ they shy away with it. but the public doesn't say the - they shy away with it. but the public doesn't say the same i they shy away with it. but the - public doesn't say the same thing. 2.5 million people coming here in two years. nigel was right. fine.

two years. nigelwas right. fine, let everyone _ two years. nigelwas right. fine, let everyone in. _ two years. nigelwas right. fine, let everyone in. when _ two years. nigelwas right. fine, let everyone in. when you - two years. nigelwas right. fine, let everyone in. when you talk i two years. nigelwas right. fine, let everyone in. when you talk about migration— let everyone in. when you talk about migration in— let everyone in. when you talk about migration in scotland, you have a demographic challenge. in scottish businesses, they want more people and more _ businesses, they want more people and more migration. that is what stephen — and more migration. that is what stephen flynn is talking about. there's— stephen flynn is talking about. there's a — stephen flynn is talking about. there's a shortage of working age people _ there's a shortage of working age --eole. .. there's a shortage of working age --eole. , ., , people. inactive people. you still have people _ people. inactive people. you still have people now... _ people. inactive people. you still have people now... what - people. inactive people. you still have people now... what you - people. inactive people. you still| have people now... what you saw people. inactive people. you still- have people now... what you saw from the audience — have people now... what you saw from the audience is _ have people now... what you saw from the audience is a _ have people now... what you saw from the audience is a warm _ have people now... what you saw from the audience is a warm reaction - have people now... what you saw from the audience is a warm reaction to - the audience is a warm reaction to someone — the audience is a warm reaction to someone who did speak positively about— someone who did speak positively about migration and was willing to take on— about migration and was willing to take on the rhetoric coming from labour— take on the rhetoric coming from labour and — take on the rhetoric coming from labour and the tories. are take on the rhetoric coming from labour and the tories.— labour and the tories. are you sa in: labour and the tories. are you saying to _ labour and the tories. are you saying to people _ labour and the tories. are you saying to people in _ labour and the tories. are you saying to people in scotland i labour and the tories. are you saying to people in scotland if| labour and the tories. are you i saying to people in scotland if you want open borders, though torres? it's about supporting your economy, bringing _ it's about supporting your economy, bringing in— it's about supporting your economy, bringing in the pupilyou need rather— bringing in the pupilyou need rather than artificially shutting the door~ _ rather than artificially shutting the door. scotland needs people to come _ the door. scotland needs people to come from — the door. scotland needs people to come from all sorts of place with their— come from all sorts of place with their skills — come from all sorts of place with their skills and talent. it is one of the — their skills and talent. it is one of the key— their skills and talent. it is one of the key business arcs. it is ridiculous— of the key business arcs. it is ridiculous labour, the tories all sign _ ridiculous labour, the tories all sign up — ridiculous labour, the tories all sign up to— ridiculous labour, the tories all sign up to the slow migration position— sign up to the slow migration position where there are parts in

the uk _ position where there are parts in the uk that are suffering from it. aren't _ the uk that are suffering from it. aren't you — the uk that are suffering from it. aren't you at risk of stigmatising a whole generation of very pay tragic young british muslims who do speak english and do speak urdu and there is language? that is what nigel farage is hinting to for some he is saying they'll street in the uk where people don't speak english. no, he said 25% of 18—25 muslims believed injihad. this is not what he said. 50% also don't believe what happened on october seven. there is a major problem. this shows multiculturalism doesn't work. we want unit cultures. bound by british values, teach them. why don't you actually make sure people come from england, from wales into scotland? more people have come from england and wales— more people have come from england and wales to work in scotland than before _ and wales to work in scotland than

before. that is happening because the snp _ before. that is happening because the snp is — before. that is happening because the snp is offering people a better quality— the snp is offering people a better quality of life. one the snp is offering people a better quality of life-— quality of life. one thing that worries parents _ quality of life. one thing that worries parents is _ quality of life. one thing that worries parents is knife - quality of life. one thing that i worries parents is knife crime. quality of life. one thing that. worries parents is knife crime. it was interesting that daisy cuba talked about community policing, which has disappeared, she said —— daisy cuba. there was discussion from the leader of plaid cymru that there isn't in this country a discussion about youth workers, about you centres where we can get hold of young people and educate them about the dangers of knife crime. it them about the dangers of knife crime. , , .., crime. it is true. it is indicative of a failed _ crime. it is true. it is indicative of a failed policy _ crime. it is true. it is indicative - of a failed policy across-the-board. of a failed policy across—the—board. you look— of a failed policy across—the—board. you look at — of a failed policy across—the—board. you look at public help where we focus _ you look at public help where we focus on — you look at public help where we focus on things that happen where things— focus on things that happen where things have gone wrong, whether prisons. — things have gone wrong, whether prisons, core policies. we don't think— prisons, core policies. we don't think about _ prisons, core policies. we don't think about prevention, early intervention. partly because they aren't— intervention. partly because they aren't the — intervention. partly because they aren't the sexy topics and cost a lot of— aren't the sexy topics and cost a lot of money. then we have debates

where _ lot of money. then we have debates where we _ lot of money. then we have debates where we realise it we spend more time worrying about those, we wouldn't — time worrying about those, we wouldn't have some of the problems we do _ wouldn't have some of the problems we do now — wouldn't have some of the problems we do now. just wouldn't have some of the problems we do now. , , ., wouldn't have some of the problems we do now-— we do now. just on stop and search, it's a controversial _ we do now. just on stop and search, it's a controversial issue. _ we do now. just on stop and search, it's a controversial issue. is - we do now. just on stop and search, it's a controversial issue. is it? - it's a controversial issue. is it? it is innovative without suspicion. nigel made a great point is we have allowed people to steal up to £200 and you get away with it.— allowed people to steal up to £200 and you get away with it. about this issue of stop _ and you get away with it. about this issue of stop and _ and you get away with it. about this issue of stop and search _ and you get away with it. about this issue of stop and search without - issue of stop and search without suspicion. you know how it has been donein suspicion. you know how it has been done in the us and what it leads to. what we believe is we need to have zero tolerance and start with what they did in new york, zero tolerance and the low—level crimes. that is what breeds this epidemic of crime was up i've seen it in shops, i'm sure you have, people going and take goods of the shop and just walk out and no one does anything. that bliihts and no one does anything. that blights communities. david, sean, liz, thank you. lots to get through and lots of people to talk to. thank

you for that. let's talk about immigration in more detail. here is plaid cymru and the greens talking about their view on immigration. nigel farage wants to make it an immigration election for its own self interest. that's changed the tone. applause that change the tone of the debate on immigration. tao that change the tone of the debate on immigration.— on immigration. too much of it is framed around _ on immigration. too much of it is framed around the _ on immigration. too much of it is framed around the bigotry - on immigration. too much of it is framed around the bigotry of - on immigration. too much of it is i framed around the bigotry of people like nigel farage. is framed around the bigotry of people like nigel farage._ like nigel farage. is that the best ou can like nigel farage. is that the best you can do? _ like nigel farage. is that the best you can do? honestly. _ like nigel farage. is that the best you can do? honestly. penny - like nigel farage. is that the best - you can do? honestly. penny mordaunt can't stand up — you can do? honestly. penny mordaunt can't stand up to _ you can do? honestly. penny mordaunt can't stand up to nigel _ you can do? honestly. penny mordaunt can't stand up to nigel farage - can't stand up to nigel farage because she wants her party to be like him. and arena can't stand up because of the shift in her party to the right. —— angela arena can't. of course we need rules on borders. i am clear the reason for the services

being _ am clear the reason for the services being run— am clear the reason for the services being run into the ground is not people — being run into the ground is not people coming here, whether coming fleeing _ people coming here, whether coming fleeing violence as asylum seekers or coming — fleeing violence as asylum seekers or coming here to work in many of our understaffed sectors like health and social— our understaffed sectors like health and social care. if you meet a migrant— and social care. if you meet a migrant in— and social care. if you meet a migrant in the nhs, they are more likely— migrant in the nhs, they are more likely to _ migrant in the nhs, they are more likely to be — migrant in the nhs, they are more likely to be treating you, as i was the last— likely to be treating you, as i was the last time i saw gp, dand being head _ the last time i saw gp, dand being head of— the last time i saw gp, dand being head of you in the queue. migration has been _ head of you in the queue. migration has been a — head of you in the queue. migration has been a good thing for this country. — has been a good thing for this country, and so in the green party, our immigration party is not about arbitrary— our immigration party is not about arbitrary numbers. that is why we aren't— arbitrary numbers. that is why we aren't talking about caps. instead, it is about — aren't talking about caps. instead, it is about making our immigration system _ it is about making our immigration system fairer and more it is about making our immigration system fairerand more humane. it is about making our immigration system fairer and more humane. carla daniel from — system fairer and more humane. carla daniel from the _ system fairer and more humane. carla daniel from the greens, _ system fairer and more humane. (iaia. daniel from the greens, the co—leader, and also plaid cymru. two representatives with me. daffodil leader of the green party and plaid cymru's member of

on immigration, has depleted our public services question no, i think she did brilliantly and saying what was needed and standing up to nigel farage and his divisive policies. it benefits the united kingdom and we need to change the narrative. but does it, but the point was made through the debate that four times, health has been cut in wales and the waiting list are four times as big. you were part of, you had an arrangement with the labour leadership in the senate so perhaps you are to blame? she leadership in the senate so perhaps you are to blame?— you are to blame? she made a very ve clear you are to blame? she made a very very clear that _ you are to blame? she made a very very clear that the _ you are to blame? she made a very very clear that the nhs _ you are to blame? she made a very very clear that the nhs was - you are to blame? she made a very very clear that the nhs was not - you are to blame? she made a very| very clear that the nhs was not part of the cooperation agreement because we do not agree with labour on this issue. if they had been, we would

see investment in public service, what we want to see is fair funding for wales so we can deliver for the people. he was very clear, he wasn't trying to play up politics, he was talking about policies that would impact people's lives and to the cooperation agreement we were able to ensure that every child in a primary school in wales receives ace free school meals. we need plaid cymru preventatives in westminster fighting for wales because labour simply won't. fighting for wales because labour simply won't-— simply won't. nigel farage says decarbonisation _ simply won't. nigel farage says decarbonisation won't _ simply won't. nigel farage says decarbonisation won't happen, i simply won't. nigel farage says i decarbonisation won't happen, it's unaffordable, unattainable. what we're doing is sacrificing manufacturing and growth and we are exporting carbon emissions. i think she ut it exporting carbon emissions. i think she put it very _ exporting carbon emissions. i think she put it very well _ exporting carbon emissions. i think she put it very well -- _ exporting carbon emissions. i think she put it very well -- carla - exporting carbon emissions. i thinkj she put it very well -- carla denyer she put it very well —— carla denyer put it _ she put it very well —— carla denyer put it very — she put it very well —— carla denyer put it very well. every word that came _ put it very well. every word that came out — put it very well. every word that came out of nigel farage's mouth on the climate _ came out of nigel farage's mouth on the climate crisis was not correct. tackling _ the climate crisis was not correct. tackling the climate crisis is a way

of tackling — tackling the climate crisis is a way of tackling the pay gaps, investing in green _ of tackling the pay gaps, investing in greenjobs to make sure we've got cleaner— in greenjobs to make sure we've got cleaner air, _ in greenjobs to make sure we've got cleanerair, more in greenjobs to make sure we've got cleaner air, more cohesive communities, i agree with every single _ communities, i agree with every single word. migration is not something we tolerate in the sky, we should _ something we tolerate in the sky, we should celebrate it. the audience uploading — should celebrate it. the audience uploading should told those two parties. — uploading should told those two parties, the labour party and the conservative party who are constantly reaching to the right on migration— constantly reaching to the right on migration is what they are doing is wrong _ migration is what they are doing is wrong the — migration is what they are doing is wrong, the people in this country are decent. — wrong, the people in this country are decent, they want to see communities brought together and celebrated, and we are stronger together~ — celebrated, and we are stronger together. i hope the labour party and the _ together. i hope the labour party and the conservative party heard that loud — and the conservative party heard that loud because the green party will always... that loud because the green party will always---_ that loud because the green party will always. . . will always... they also want places in gp surgeries, _ will always... they also want places in gp surgeries, in _ will always... they also want places in gp surgeries, in schools, - will always... they also want places in gp surgeries, in schools, and - in gp surgeries, in schools, and people who support nigel farage in many communities around the uk said the only reason is because they're too many people. this the only reason is because they're too many people-— too many people. as a lack of housing. _ too many people. as a lack of housing. it's _ too many people. as a lack of housing, it's hard _ too many people. as a lack of housing, it's hard to - too many people. as a lack of housing, it's hard to get - too many people. as a lack of housing, it's hard to get it. too many people. as a lack of housing, it's hard to get it in l too many people. as a lack of - housing, it's hard to get it in nhs appointment, these problems aren't the problems of... tell appointment, these problems aren't the problems of. . ._ the problems of... tell million extra people _

the problems of... tell million extra people he _ the problems of... tell million extra people he said _ the problems of. .. tell million extra people he said under- the problems of... tell million i extra people he said under tony blair. ~ ., ., , extra people he said under tony blair. ., , blair. we got so many vacancies, actually these — blair. we got so many vacancies, actually these are _ blair. we got so many vacancies, actually these are not _ blair. we got so many vacancies, actually these are not for - blair. we got so many vacancies, i actually these are not for migrants, these _ actually these are not for migrants, these are _ actually these are not for migrants, these are from the ia years of these are from the 1a years of underinvestment under conservative government and before that under the labour— government and before that under the labour party and the bfi initiatives that left— labour party and the bfi initiatives that left the nhs in huge amounts of debt, we _ that left the nhs in huge amounts of debt, we have to be investing in a public— debt, we have to be investing in a public service and if labour won't make _ public service and if labour won't make the — public service and if labour won't make the argument the green party will. make the argument the green party wilt 00— make the argument the green party will. y ., make the argument the green party will. , , will. do you support it? it was very ve clear will. do you support it? it was very very clear that _ will. do you support it? it was very very clear that there _ will. do you support it? it was very very clear that there was _ will. do you support it? it was very very clear that there was a - very clear that there was a progressive opportunity. plaid cymru, we offer solutions and the greene deal, we have in our manifesto, are things that'll deliver for our communities. the lower energy bills will ensure that wales it benefits from the richest of its national resources. the green pa did of its national resources. the green party did very _ of its national resources. the green party did very well— of its national resources. the green party did very well at _ of its national resources. the green party did very well at the _ party did very well at the last european parliamentary lectures and are going to get clobbered on sunday, losing a0% of their seats, and that's because they put the cost of the transition on the back of the

working people. of the transition on the back of the working people-— working people. let's have the election first _ working people. let's have the election first of _ working people. let's have the election first of all _ working people. let's have the election first of all and - working people. let's have the election first of all and see - working people. let's have the | election first of all and see how it goes _ election first of all and see how it toes. , election first of all and see how it roes, , ., , election first of all and see how it toes. , ., , , election first of all and see how it toes. , ., , goes. green party politicians are... there is a green _ goes. green party politicians are... there is a green lash _ goes. green party politicians are... there is a green lash in _ goes. green party politicians are... there is a green lash in europe. i there is a green lash in europe. people think green is about being working _ people think green is about being working class but it's about protecting working people's not an green _ protecting working people's not an green party politicians have a responsibility to point out that the green _ responsibility to point out that the green transition is protecting the marginalised communities of us, disabled — marginalised communities of us, disabled communities, all of these people _ disabled communities, all of these people need protecting and ultimately we need to make sure that the transition is being funded by multi _ the transition is being funded by multi millionaires and billionaires and ultimately everyone can benefit with this _ and ultimately everyone can benefit with this because we all benefit from _ with this because we all benefit from a — with this because we all benefit from a more equal society, and that's— from a more equal society, and that's what— from a more equal society, and that's what you get with the green party _ that's what you get with the green party a— that's what you get with the green pa . �* . ~' ., that's what you get with the green pa . �* . ~ ., , that's what you get with the green pa . �* . ~' ., , ~ , party. a quick word, first minister of wales seem — party. a quick word, first minister of wales seem to _ party. a quick word, first minister of wales seem to be _ party. a quick word, first minister of wales seem to be a _ party. a quick word, first minister of wales seem to be a reaction i party. a quick word, first minister. of wales seem to be a reaction from the audience. the of wales seem to be a reaction from the audience-— the audience. the labour party in wales are listening _ the audience. the labour party in wales are listening because - the audience. the labour party in wales are listening because we i the audience. the labour party in i wales are listening because we need to get... if we can't have a minister in wales, the government where the first minister can't fight for wales and ensure we get the

funding wait deserves, what commitment do we have, what we need a first measure that will work with wills,. ., ~' a first measure that will work with wills,. . ~ i. a first measure that will work with wills,. ., ~ ,, ., a first measure that will work with wills,. ., ~ i- ., ,, a first measure that will work with wills,. . ., , wills,. thank you for your company this evening. there _ wills,. thank you for your company this evening. there was _ wills,. thank you for your company this evening. there was an - wills,. thank you for your company this evening. there was an intense | this evening. there was an intense debate about tax and that £2000 that conservatives have thrown at labour. knitterrdly is with the very fighting. knitterrdly is with the very fi . htini. �* , , knitterrdly is with the very fiiihtin. h , ., knitterrdly is with the very fiiihtin. fl , . ., knitterrdly is with the very fichctin. h , ., ., .,~ , fighting. there's been a lot to keep our team affect _ fighting. there's been a lot to keep our team affect -- _ fighting. there's been a lot to keep our team affect -- team _ fighting. there's been a lot to keep our team affect -- team of- our team affect —— team of fact checkers busy. let's start with when you mentioned, this big row reigniting about whether labour will put up tax by £2000. it's around that has dominated the week, any times penny mordaunt said it. we have looked at this a lot in great detail, the figure that penny mordaunt is using is misleading, is not spread overfour

mordaunt is using is misleading, is not spread over four years and the figures are dubious. like the promise not to increase taxes or vat during next parliament, that row came again, that claim from penny mordaunt is misleading. let's look next at the row over cuts. you heard stephen flynn from the snp say several times but this was going to happen, there were going to be £18 billion of spending cuts after the general election. whether conservatives or labour are in power. —— labourare in conservatives or labour are in power. —— labour are in power. this is from an analysis of the institute for fiscal studies. because labour and the conservatives are saying they will not take taxes or borrow for spending, they will not take taxes or borrow forspending, because they will not take taxes or borrow for spending, because economic growth is low spending will be squeeze. look at this, this is where stephen flynn is getting that figure from it. although day—to—day spending is going up a small bit, their protected areas of spending,

nhs, defence, schools, aid, child care. and the unprotected areas like transport, like many other things, are going to see cuts. £18 billion worth of cuts is the figure the iff came up with. that's where he got that from but it's really important because he was using that in the context of the health debate, health is protected. so it isn't going to be part of those cuts. we talked a lot today about defence and there was a big debate on it at the start. two claims that i thought were worth just exploring from that debate. one was nigel farage's claim has defence spending fallen in real terms since labour were less than power? since the conservatives came in under 2010, the answer is yes. this is what the figure was in real terms in 2009 - 2010, have what the figure was in real terms in 2009 — 2010, have a look at it here. it's slightly below, so it is right to say that the defence budget is low or no in real terms that it was

when labour left power. secondly, there were is a claim the army has shrunk under conservatives. this is in coming up on the screen but we have gone through that claim and it does show that, it does show that the army has fallen to about 70,000 from a peak of about 100,000. so a couple of claims there that were true, some claims that were quite complicated, one that we think was misleading but there's a lot more of this stuff, christian, on the bbc news website on the live page, we've been backtracking everything. we're going to keep going through some of those numbers and will come up with more later. , ., ., _, ., more later. plenty more to come from nick and his — more later. plenty more to come from nick and his team, _ more later. plenty more to come from nick and his team, do _ more later. plenty more to come from nick and his team, do have _ more later. plenty more to come from nick and his team, do have a - more later. plenty more to come from nick and his team, do have a look- more later. plenty more to come from nick and his team, do have a look on i nick and his team, do have a look on the verify website on the website. we've got some new live questions from the audience tonight, some really good questions as well. let's listen to two of them, one from lucy hockaday and the other will from linda myers. hockaday and the other will from linda myers-—

hockaday and the other will from linda myers. what matters to you more, economic— linda myers. what matters to you more, economic growth _ linda myers. what matters to you more, economic growth or - linda myers. what matters to you i more, economic growth or successful climate _ more, economic growth or successful climate policy? — more, economic growth or successful climate policy? 1ichthy— more, economic growth or successful climate policy?— climate policy? why is it when iarties climate policy? why is it when parties want — climate policy? why is it when parties want your _ climate policy? why is it when parties want your vote, - climate policy? why is it when parties want your vote, they i parties want your vote, they promised _ parties want your vote, they promised things, but when they are elected _ promised things, but when they are elected nothing gets done? applause by the powers of television i've got lucy and linda standing right next to me. lovely to see you, well done tonight. lucy, let me start with you. what matters to you most, economic growth or, policy. did you cet an economic growth or, policy. did you get an answer? _ economic growth or, policy. did you get an answer? no, _ economic growth or, policy. did you get an answer? no, i— economic growth or, policy. did you get an answer? no, i definitely - get an answer? no, i definitely didn't. which i expected. the voter wants to have both so you would be shooting your party and the foot if you outright said one. so i understand that that's just politics but it felt frustrating to see everyone kind of talk around the subject. everyone kind of talk around the sub'ect. ., , ., , ., subject. there was one party that ou are subject. there was one party that you are leaning — subject. there was one party that you are leaning towards - subject. there was one party that you are leaning towards from - subject. there was one party that you are leaning towards from the | you are leaning towards from the answers you got, would it be... green. the greens, right. what was it about their policy that you like? i think not even just green policy,

the whole part that they're dedicated, starting with climate change because i think it is what we are all should be looking to as the number one issue in the uk and for the future. so i think other parties trying to include as part of a kind of grand scheme of will give you everything, have your cake and eat it, ithink everything, have your cake and eat it, i think it's untrue. i think it's misleading to voters and it's a real threat to the uk going forward. do you not worry about this point that nigel farage made, but some of it is not tangible, we're fixing the figures, exporting some of our missions abroad and as penny mordaunt made the point, we're putting the cost of that on the backs of working people who are od dealing with a cost—of—living crisis. i dealing with a cost-of-living crisis. ., �* _ ., crisis. i never thought i'd say that but i did crisis. i never thought i'd say that but i did agree — crisis. i never thought i'd say that but i did agree with _ crisis. i never thought i'd say that but i did agree with nigel- crisis. i never thought i'd say that but i did agree with nigel faragel but i did agree with nigel farage when he was talking about exporting our missions and how it gives us a false sense of security, i think that was a good point. i think it's very convenient and a wealthy country to export our rubbish, and

to export production abroad and then not check the quality of the work thatis not check the quality of the work that is been done, not check the impact on the environment even though we are the ones that are finding it, we're not the ones that are growing and processing it. i think he was working people as a kind of get out when talking about climate policy is too expensive, i think it's wrong and it is unfair because it is the poorest people in society that will suffer the most when climate change becomes more and more evident in our daily lives, with houses flooded and you couldn't afford a home insurance, you couldn't afford it and then you're stuck with payments. i think it is a complete copout.— complete copout. that was a very --oular complete copout. that was a very popular question _ complete copout. that was a very popular question with _ complete copout. that was a very popular question with our - complete copout. that was a veryj popular question with our viewers but also this one from linda. why do politicians make promises and then do something completely different. when they're in office. did you feel satisfied with the response you got. not at all, they kept going off the subject— not at all, they kept going off the subject and fighting with each other, — subject and fighting with each other, it _ subject and fighting with each other, it was like children in a school— other, it was like children in a

school playground.— other, it was like children in a school playground. other, it was like children in a school-la cround. ., , school playground. what prompted you to ask that question? _ school playground. what prompted you to ask that question? because - school playground. what prompted you to ask that question? because so - to ask that question? because so many times _ to ask that question? because so many times before _ to ask that question? because so many times before elections - to ask that question? because soj many times before elections they promised — many times before elections they promised so much, but nothing ever comes— promised so much, but nothing ever comes of— promised so much, but nothing ever comes of it. — promised so much, but nothing ever comes of it, but nothing materialises. so comes of it, but nothing materialises.— comes of it, but nothing materialises. so you voted conservative, _ materialises. so you voted conservative, did - materialises. so you voted conservative, did you? - materialises. so you voted conservative, did you? i. materialises. so you voted l conservative, did you? i did materialises. so you voted - conservative, did you? i did up to two ears conservative, did you? i did up to two years ago. — conservative, did you? i did up to two years ago. i— conservative, did you? i did up to two years ago, i voted _ conservative, did you? i did up to i two years ago, i voted conservative, always _ two years ago, i voted conservative, always did — two years ago, i voted conservative, alwa sdid. ~ . ,., always did. which parts of the manifesto _ always did. which parts of the manifesto did _ always did. which parts of the manifesto did you _ always did. which parts of the manifesto did you think- always did. which parts of the manifesto did you think were | manifesto did you think were betrayal? manifesto did you think were betra al? �* . ., , manifesto did you think were betrayal?_ most i manifesto did you think were - betrayal?_ most things. betrayal? actually... most things. how did that _ betrayal? actually... most things. how did that make _ betrayal? actually... most things. how did that make you _ betrayal? actually... most things. how did that make you feel- betrayal? actually... most things. how did that make you feel ahead j betrayal? actually... most things. i how did that make you feel ahead of this campaign? did you look? it's manifesto week next week, the pledges and promises will be laid out before us. will you read them, will you put any trust in them? i find it very hard. i was listening to everyone tonight and the only one who seemed honest with actually the green _ who seemed honest with actually the green party who i had never even considered — green party who i had never even considered before. but she seemed very honest. she wasn't fighting to -et very honest. she wasn't fighting to get above — very honest. she wasn't fighting to get above everybody else. so i think she'll— get above everybody else. so i think she'll probably get my vote. yeah.

i'm interested _ she'll probably get my vote. yeah. i'm interested in _ she'll probably get my vote. yeah. i'm interested in what _ she'll probably get my vote. yeah. i'm interested in what you - she'll probably get my vote. yeah. i'm interested in what you both i she'll probably get my vote. ieéi i'm interested in what you both made of the general tenor of the debate. i don't know if you watch the debate on tuesday but this felt different to me. i on tuesday but this felt different to me. ~' to me. i think the debate felt very... picked _ to me. i think the debate felt very... picked me, _ to me. i think the debate felt very... picked me, pick- to me. i think the debate felt very... picked me, pick me. | to me. i think the debate felt| very... picked me, pick me. it to me. i think the debate felt - very... picked me, pick me. it kind of felt--- — very... picked me, pick me. it kind of felt. .. maybe _ very... picked me, pick me. it kind of felt. .. maybe that's _ very... picked me, pick me. it kind of felt. .. maybe that's natural - of felt... maybe that's natural given there were sudden people on stage and time was limited. perhaps. leaders speaking _ stage and time was limited. perhaps. leaders speaking straight _ stage and time was limited. perhaps. leaders speaking straight from - stage and time was limited. perhaps. leaders speaking straight from the i leaders speaking straight from the british public and british people and more focused onjabbing at british public and british people and more focused on jabbing at each other instead of really having a clear point they wanted to communicate.— clear point they wanted to communicate. ,., , , ,, communicate. the pollsters, i think the 'u is communicate. the pollsters, i think the jury is out _ communicate. the pollsters, i think the jury is out for— communicate. the pollsters, i think the jury is out for pollsters - the jury is out for pollsters whether debates make a difference. do they make a difference for you? it certainly has tonight, it's open my eyes— it certainly has tonight, it's open my eyes to — it certainly has tonight, it's open my eyes to a few things.- my eyes to a few things. you're sa inc a my eyes to a few things. you're saying a smaller— my eyes to a few things. you're saying a smaller party - my eyes to a few things. you're saying a smaller party for- my eyes to a few things. you're saying a smaller party for the i my eyes to a few things. you're i saying a smaller party for the first time, wasn't an introduction for you to the green party?— to the green party? yes, and it labour and _ to the green party? yes, and it labour and conservative, - to the green party? yes, and itj labour and conservative, those to the green party? yes, and it. labour and conservative, those of the main — labour and conservative, those of the main ones, they are just fighting _ the main ones, they are just fighting each other. will

the main ones, they are “ust fighting each other. will have to leave it there, _ fighting each other. will have to leave it there, lucy, _ fighting each other. will have to leave it there, lucy, linda, - fighting each other. will have to leave it there, lucy, linda, it'si leave it there, lucy, linda, it's lovely to meet you. thank you for your contributions tonight, really good questions as were all of them from our studio audience. at the end of the debate, after we'd had the row on stage and they were all fighting for the attention, they got a period of time for themselves, were able to give that they are closing thoughts and comments. so let's tune into some of those. here is a reminder of the closing thoughts that they gave to the audience. �* ' , ., , ., thoughts that they gave to the audience. �* ' , ., . audience. after 1a years of chaos, it's time audience. after 14 years of chaos, it's time for _ audience. after 14 years of chaos, it's time for change. _ audience. after 14 years of chaos, it's time for change. keir - audience. after 14 years of chaos, it's time for change. keir starmer| it's time for change. keir starmer has changed the labour party, are fully costed plan for britain will secure our economy but bring down nhs waiting times with a0,000 new appointments every week and will secure our borders, not with gimmicks but with a credible plan to smash the gangs. we'll create great british energy bringing down bills and creating thousands of well—paid jobs. we will boost neighbourhood police to tackle anti—social

behaviour and will hire 6500 new teachers. if you want change, vote labour. ,, , , ., , labour. stephen flynn. the tories are finished _ labour. stephen flynn. the tories are finished so _ labour. stephen flynn. the tories are finished so the _ labour. stephen flynn. the tories are finished so the choice - labour. stephen flynn. the tories are finished so the choice is - are finished so the choice is simple _ are finished so the choice is simple. trust voters to put cotton scotland's — simple. trust voters to put cotton scotland's interests first. investment in our nhs action on the cost of— investment in our nhs action on the cost of living crisis, rejoining the european — cost of living crisis, rejoining the european single market and creating economic— european single market and creating economic growth by delivering on net zero. economic growth by delivering on net zero unlike — economic growth by delivering on net zero. unlike the labour party, we will never— zero. unlike the labour party, we will never ever get comfortable with the westminster status quo and we will always fight for scotland's right _ will always fight for scotland's right to — will always fight for scotland's right to choose its own future, so on the _ right to choose its own future, so on the 4th — right to choose its own future, so on the ath ofjuly, vote to put scotland's interests first, vote snp~ — scotland's interests first, vote snp. ., ., , , . scotland's interests first, vote snp. . , . .,, snp. carla denyer. we can all see the tories — snp. carla denyer. we can all see the tories are _ snp. carla denyer. we can all see the tories are toast, _ snp. carla denyer. we can all see the tories are toast, thank- the tories are toast, thank goodness _ the tories are toast, thank goodness. we _ the tories are toast, thank goodness. we deserve - the tories are toast, thank- goodness. we deserve better than a labour— goodness. we deserve better than a labour party— goodness. we deserve better than a labour party that _ goodness. we deserve better than a labour party that is _ goodness. we deserve better than a labour party that is offering - goodness. we deserve better than a labour party that is offering more i labour party that is offering more of the _ labour party that is offering more of the same _ labour party that is offering more of the same. angela _ labour party that is offering more of the same. angela says - labour party that is offering more of the same. angela says that - labour party that is offering moral of the same. angela says that keir starmer—

of the same. angela says that keir starmer has — of the same. angela says that keir starmer has change _ of the same. angela says that keir starmer has change the _ of the same. angela says that keir starmer has change the labour- of the same. angela says that keir. starmer has change the labour party, and she's— starmer has change the labour party, and she's right, — starmer has change the labour party, and she's right, he's _ starmer has change the labour party, and she's right, he's change - starmer has change the labour party, and she's right, he's change them - and she's right, he's change them into the _ and she's right, he's change them into the conservatives. _ and she's right, he's change them into the conservatives. our- and she's right, he's change them i into the conservatives. our children deserve _ into the conservatives. our children deserve better. _ into the conservatives. our children deserve better. the _ into the conservatives. our children deserve better. the green - into the conservatives. our children deserve better. the green party- into the conservatives. our children deserve better. the green party is. deserve better. the green party is breaking _ deserve better. the green party is breaking through _ deserve better. the green party is breaking through seats _ deserve better. the green party is breaking through seats up - deserve better. the green party is breaking through seats up and - deserve better. the green party is. breaking through seats up and down the country. — breaking through seats up and down the country, never— breaking through seats up and down the country, never stop— breaking through seats up and down the country, never stop defending i the country, never stop defending our future — the country, never stop defending our future, protecting _ the country, never stop defending our future, protecting our- the country, never stop defending our future, protecting our nhs - the country, never stop defending i our future, protecting our nhs from privatisation — our future, protecting our nhs from privatisation and _ our future, protecting our nhs from privatisation and pushing _ our future, protecting our nhs from privatisation and pushing the - our future, protecting our nhs from privatisation and pushing the next i privatisation and pushing the next labour— privatisation and pushing the next labour government— privatisation and pushing the next labour government to _ privatisation and pushing the next labour government to do - privatisation and pushing the next labour government to do better. i privatisation and pushing the next i labour government to do better. we deserve _ labour government to do better. we deserve reat— labour government to do better. we deserve real hope _ labour government to do better. we deserve real hope and _ labour government to do better. we deserve real hope and real— labour government to do better. we deserve real hope and real change. i deserve real hope and real change. vote green — deserve real hope and real change. vote green-— deserve real hope and real change. vote green._ this vote green. rhun ap iorwerth. this eveninc i vote green. rhun ap iorwerth. this evening i have _ vote green. rhun ap iorwerth. this evening i have stood _ vote green. rhun ap iorwerth. this evening i have stood up _ vote green. rhun ap iorwerth. this evening i have stood up for - vote green. rhun ap iorwerth. this| evening i have stood up for whales, yes, but for a different type of politics that hopefully has felt relevant wherever you are. my vision is a positive one. this isn't as good as it gets. the conservatives are gone, they are finished. and it can't come quickly enough. but there's a real chance here to send labour a message, too. stop taking whales for granted. it is true that communities throughout the uk feel

as if they are being ignored. well, i won't let whales be, so vote played, and on the ath ofjuly. —— wales. played, and on the ath ofjuly. -- wales. ~ ., _, ., ., wales. we have come through tough times and know _ wales. we have come through tough times and know if _ wales. we have come through tough times and know if there _ wales. we have come through tough times and know if there is _ wales. we have come through tough times and know if there is a - wales. we have come through tough times and know if there is a choice i times and know if there is a choice to be _ times and know if there is a choice to be made — times and know if there is a choice to be made. you can choose angela rayner _ to be made. you can choose angela rayner and — to be made. you can choose angela rayner and keir starmer to be made. you can choose angela raynerand keir starmerand to be made. you can choose angela rayner and keir starmer and get higher— rayner and keir starmer and get higher taxes, rayner and keir starmer and get highertaxes, higher rayner and keir starmer and get higher taxes, higher bills and have your pension rated. or you can stick with us— your pension rated. or you can stick with us and — your pension rated. or you can stick with us and the plant that is working _ with us and the plant that is working. we will cut your taxes. we will protect — working. we will cut your taxes. we will protect your pension. and we will protect your pension. and we will defend this nation. for a more secure _ will defend this nation. for a more secure future, vote conservative. daisy _ secure future, vote conservative. daisy cooper. secure future, vote conservative. daisy cooper-— secure future, vote conservative. daisy cooper. our country is crying out for change. — daisy cooper. our country is crying out for change, and _ daisy cooper. our country is crying out for change, and it's _ daisy cooper. our country is crying out for change, and it's not - daisy cooper. our country is crying out for change, and it's not hard i daisy cooper. our country is crying | out for change, and it's not hard to see why _ out for change, and it's not hard to see why under— out for change, and it's not hard to see why. under this— out for change, and it's not hard to see why. under this conservative i see why. under this conservative government, _ see why. under this conservative government, everything- see why. under this conservative government, everything feels . see why. under this conservative - government, everything feels broken. nothing _ government, everything feels broken. nothing works —

government, everything feels broken. nothing works. under— government, everything feels broken. nothing works. under ed _ government, everything feels broken. nothing works. under ed davey's's- nothing works. under ed davey's's leadership, — nothing works. under ed davey's's leadership, liberal— nothing works. under ed davey's's leadership, liberal democrats - nothing works. under ed davey's's leadership, liberal democrats will| leadership, liberal democrats will fix our— leadership, liberal democrats will fix our nhs, — leadership, liberal democrats will fix our nhs, social— leadership, liberal democrats will fix our nhs, social care, - leadership, liberal democrats will fix our nhs, social care, tackle i leadership, liberal democrats willi fix our nhs, social care, tackle the cost of _ fix our nhs, social care, tackle the cost of living — fix our nhs, social care, tackle the cost of living crisis _ fix our nhs, social care, tackle the cost of living crisis and _ fix our nhs, social care, tackle the cost of living crisis and put - fix our nhs, social care, tackle the cost of living crisis and put an - fix our nhs, social care, tackle the cost of living crisis and put an endl cost of living crisis and put an end to the _ cost of living crisis and put an end to the scandal— cost of living crisis and put an end to the scandal of _ cost of living crisis and put an end to the scandal of filthy _ cost of living crisis and put an end to the scandal of filthy raw- cost of living crisis and put an endl to the scandal of filthy raw sewage being _ to the scandal of filthy raw sewage being dumped _ to the scandal of filthy raw sewage being dumped in _ to the scandal of filthy raw sewage being dumped in our— to the scandal of filthy raw sewage being dumped in our rivers - to the scandal of filthy raw sewage being dumped in our rivers and - being dumped in our rivers and streams — being dumped in our rivers and streams every— being dumped in our rivers and streams. every vote _ being dumped in our rivers and streams. every vote for- being dumped in our rivers and streams. every vote for the - being dumped in our rivers and - streams. every vote for the liberal democrats — streams. every vote for the liberal democrats is — streams. every vote for the liberal democrats is a _ streams. every vote for the liberal democrats is a vote _ streams. every vote for the liberal democrats is a vote for— streams. every vote for the liberal democrats is a vote for a - streams. every vote for the liberal democrats is a vote for a fair- streams. every vote for the liberal democrats is a vote for a fair deall democrats is a vote for a fair deal and a _ democrats is a vote for a fair deal and a vote — democrats is a vote for a fair deal and a vote to _ democrats is a vote for a fair deal and a vote to help _ democrats is a vote for a fair deal and a vote to help deliver - democrats is a vote for a fair deal and a vote to help deliver the - and a vote to help deliver the change — and a vote to help deliver the change that— and a vote to help deliver the change that we _ and a vote to help deliver the change that we also - and a vote to help deliver the i change that we also desperately want and need _ change that we also desperately want and need. ., ., change that we also desperately want and need._ unlike - change that we also desperately want and need._ unlike the i and need. nigel farage. unlike the other six i don't _ and need. nigel farage. unlike the other six i don't need _ and need. nigel farage. unlike the other six i don't need an _ and need. nigel farage. unlike the other six i don't need an older- other six i don't need an older queue. you've heard these pathetic arguments between the two big parties, really there isn't much different but electorally, labour are going to win. the debate is, who forms the opposition in the next parliament? who fights for the rights of ordinary british people? who fights to control our borders, who fights for men and women running small businesses? reform uk is about to become a political phenomenon, an historic one, so i urge you tojoin

the revolt. historic one, so i urge you to 'oin the revolt.— historic one, so i urge you to 'oin the even.— the revolt. unlike nigel pearl -- nicel the revolt. unlike nigel pearl -- nigel farage. — the revolt. unlike nigel pearl -- nigel farage. i _ the revolt. unlike nigel pearl -- nigel farage, i do _ the revolt. unlike nigel pearl -- nigel farage, i do need - the revolt. unlike nigel pearl -- nigel farage, i do need an - the revolt. unlike nigel pearl -- nigel farage, i do need an auto| nigel farage, i do need an auto queue. of course the people who would make most sense of it for us the journalist, would make most sense of it for us thejournalist, newspaper journalists, the headlines will be out shortly on the front pages and that's the sort of industry you can feel around us. it's a bit light though, last hour in the nightclub, the struggles are here and the hangers on, here are two stragglers. ijust said it's like the end of a night club night, isn't it? it’s night club night, isn't it? it's alwa s night club night, isn't it? it's always at — night club night, isn't it? it's always at the _ night club night, isn't it? it�*s always at the end of the night. one of us is going to start crying in a minute. laughter. labour, conservative, what did you make of it? it labour, conservative, what did you make of it?— make of it? it was interesting, i thoucht make of it? it was interesting, i thought the _ make of it? it was interesting, i thought the format _ make of it? it was interesting, i thought the format meant, - make of it? it was interesting, i i thought the format meant, there make of it? it was interesting, i - thought the format meant, there were so many people on stage nobody really got a chance to dominate. you should could see the strategies in play, penny mordaunt was clearly

directed to only attack angela rayner, not nigel farage. stephen flynn was trying to sock it to everybody. it was just interesting in terms of everybody had their game plan coming in. thea;t in terms of everybody had their game plan coming in— plan coming in. they sort of tiptoed into it until— plan coming in. they sort of tiptoed into it until nigel— plan coming in. they sort of tiptoed into it until nigel farage _ plan coming in. they sort of tiptoed into it until nigel farage just - into it until nigel farage just piled in on the d—day stuff. i thought that penny mordaunt was interesting in that she put the boot into rishi sunak as well, she said actually i'm really sorry about what happened, it was a big mistake and i thought it was quite an interesting moment for me. taste thought it was quite an interesting moment for me.— moment for me. we were talking earlier about _ moment for me. we were talking earlier about how _ moment for me. we were talking earlier about how you _ moment for me. we were talking earlier about how you position i earlier about how you position people around the stage and whether they draw lots. obviously, the energy and the route was at the right—hand side of the stage between penny mordaunt and angela rayner. and i think there's going to be sort of a sigh _ and i think there's going to be sort of a sigh of— and i think there's going to be sort of a sigh of relief _ and i think there's going to be sort of a sigh of relief at _ and i think there's going to be sort of a sigh of relief at conservative i of a sigh of relief at conservative headquarters— of a sigh of relief at conservative headquarters this _ of a sigh of relief at conservative headquarters this evening - of a sigh of relief at conservative i headquarters this evening because what they— headquarters this evening because what they expected _ headquarters this evening because what they expected was, - headquarters this evening because what they expected was, you - headquarters this evening because i what they expected was, you know, nigel— what they expected was, you know, nigel faragei — what they expected was, you know, nigel faragei big _ what they expected was, you know, nigel farage, big figure, _ what they expected was, you know, nigel farage, big figure, very- nigel farage, big figure, very popular. _ nigel farage, big figure, very popular, climbing _ nigel farage, big figure, very popular, climbing up- nigel farage, big figure, very popular, climbing up in- nigel farage, big figure, very popular, climbing up in the i nigel farage, big figure, very. popular, climbing up in the polls nigel farage, big figure, very- popular, climbing up in the polls to dominate _ popular, climbing up in the polls to dominate this — popular, climbing up in the polls to dominate this debate _ popular, climbing up in the polls to dominate this debate and - popular, climbing up in the polls to dominate this debate and he - popular, climbing up in the polls to| dominate this debate and he didn't. that's_ dominate this debate and he didn't. that's my—

dominate this debate and he didn't. that's my assessment _ dominate this debate and he didn't. that's my assessment of— dominate this debate and he didn't. that's my assessment of it - dominate this debate and he didn't. that's my assessment of it anyway. | that's my assessment of it anyway. it that's my assessment of it anyway. it fell _ that's my assessment of it anyway. it fella _ that's my assessment of it anyway. it fella little — that's my assessment of it anyway. it fell a little bit _ that's my assessment of it anyway. it fell a little bit flat— that's my assessment of it anyway. it fell a little bit flat and i _ it fell a little bit flat and i think— it fell a little bit flat and i think the _ it fell a little bit flat and i think the energy, - it fell a little bit flat and i think the energy, as - it fell a little bit flat and i think the energy, as you i it fell a little bit flat and i - think the energy, as you say, was very— think the energy, as you say, was very much— think the energy, as you say, was very much between _ think the energy, as you say, was very much between penny- think the energy, as you say, was very much between penny and - think the energy, as you say, was - very much between penny and angela. given what— very much between penny and angela. given what i_ very much between penny and angela. given what i said _ very much between penny and angela. given what i said previously— very much between penny and angela. given what i said previously of - given what i said previously of course — given what i said previously of course i — given what i said previously of course, i thought _ given what i said previously of course, i thought it _ given what i said previously of course, i thought it could - given what i said previously of course, i thought it could be i given what i said previously of - course, i thought it could be much more _ course, i thought it could be much more dynamic— course, i thought it could be much more dynamic but _ course, i thought it could be much more dynamic but there _ course, i thought it could be much more dynamic but there was - course, i thought it could be much more dynamic but there was this i more dynamic but there was this sense _ more dynamic but there was this sense that — more dynamic but there was this sense that no—one _ more dynamic but there was this sense that no—one was - more dynamic but there was this sense that no—one was coached i more dynamic but there was this i sense that no—one was coached into sort of— sense that no—one was coached into sort of being — sense that no—one was coached into sort of being a — sense that no—one was coached into sort of being a smaller— sense that no—one was coached into sort of being a smaller versions - sense that no—one was coached into sort of being a smaller versions of i sort of being a smaller versions of themselves — sort of being a smaller versions of themselves i— sort of being a smaller versions of themselves. i thought _ sort of being a smaller versions of themselves. i thought angela - sort of being a smaller versions of i themselves. i thought angela rayner was very— themselves. i thought angela rayner was very subdued _ themselves. i thought angela rayner was very subdued and _ themselves. i thought angela rayner was very subdued and not _ themselves. i thought angela rayner was very subdued and not quite - themselves. i thought angela rayner was very subdued and not quite whatj was very subdued and not quite what i had was very subdued and not quite what i had expected — was very subdued and not quite what i had expected her— was very subdued and not quite what i had expected her to _ was very subdued and not quite what i had expected her to be. _ was very subdued and not quite what i had expected her to be. so- was very subdued and not quite what i had expected her to be. so it- i had expected her to be. so it was... i had expected her to be. so it was- -- i— i had expected her to be. so it was... i wonder— i had expected her to be. so it was... i wonder what - i had expected her to be.- was... i wonder what instruction i had expected her to be— was... i wonder what instruction she was... i wonder what instruction she was sent out with chris and caution is being the name of the game, if you're 20 points ahead in the polls you're 20 points ahead in the polls you can afford to be cautious. with that maybe the instruction she was sent with? �* , , ., sent with? there's definitely a theme running _ sent with? there's definitely a theme running to _ sent with? there's definitely a theme running to the - sent with? there's definitely a theme running to the labour i sent with? there's definitely a - theme running to the labour party, it's like the main vase carried across the polished floor. yes the polls are looking good, but the labour party doesn't often win elections in the last hundred years this country is only ever elected for labour prime ministers. they know that history is sort of against them so there's definitely a sort of caution first. and i think angela rayner did not want to end up being

the story of the night, so i think she was also coming into, keir starmer is trying to show he is a prime minister in waiting, she is trying to show what she is a deputy prime minister and waiting. what was interesting as i thought nigel farage would really come in and have a big moment because he is a good communicator. i don't agree with his politics but he is a dynamic, punchy, it felt like he didn't quite have that knockout moment. and i thought this would be the sort of night that he would come to really bury the conservative party. i didn't quite feel that happen. these guys around us will be drawing their conclusions, conservative hq will be hoping it's a debate that takes the front pages, but it's unlikely to be. this story about the day is going to run, isn't it? i be. this story about the day is going to run, isn't it?- going to run, isn't it? i think penny dealt _ going to run, isn't it? i think penny dealt with _ going to run, isn't it? i think penny dealt with it - going to run, isn't it? i think penny dealt with it quite - penny dealt with it quite definitely. it's like what i should 'ust definitely. it's like what i should just said. — definitely. it's like what i should just said, she wasn't quite as supportive of it as she could be. that— supportive of it as she could be. that will— supportive of it as she could be. that will be the story, that will be the story. that will be the story, that will be the sto . ., �* , , that will be the story, that will be thesto . . �*, , ., the story. that's definitely going to run. ithink— the story. that's definitely going to run. i think the _ the story. that's definitely going to run. i think the debate - the story. that's definitely going to run. i think the debate itselfi to run. i think the debate itself nobody— to run. i think the debate itself nobody learned anything new from it.

and that _ nobody learned anything new from it. and that is _ nobody learned anything new from it. and that is a sad sort of result of this critical— and that is a sad sort of result of this critical coaching that goes on behind _ this critical coaching that goes on behind the scenes where people actually — behind the scenes where people actually don't feel is free to be able _ actually don't feel is free to be able to— actually don't feel is free to be able to say what they want about policy, _ able to say what they want about policy, and nigel farage to try to make _ policy, and nigel farage to try to make that — policy, and nigel farage to try to make that a distinctive point about himself. _ make that a distinctive point about himself, not using the auto queue and all— himself, not using the auto queue and all that. anything actually, did anybody— and all that. anything actually, did anybody learn anything that different from the debate? the audience different from the debate? tie: audience members we just talked to, one of them wasn't really introduced to the greens, quite liked the greens. what you predicted stephen flynn would do well. those parties that don't get as much airtime do tend to benefit more from this format. i tend to benefit more from this format. ., . , . tend to benefit more from this format. ., ., , ., ., format. i totally agree with that and what's _ format. i totally agree with that and what's really _ format. i totally agree with that and what's really instructive - format. i totally agree with that i and what's really instructive about this format, it does give the smaller parties a chance to get into the spotlight and it gives voters another option on the table other than the big two parties and like i said as i predicted stephen flynn is coming in with quite a strong

message in terms of what he's once to deliver, but ultimately i don't think tonight will live massively change the polls, i don't think most people's voting intention will have shifted looking at this debate. a5 people's voting intention will have shifted looking at this debate. as a holding pattern until the manifestos come out, that that will be next week. it come out, that that will be next week. ., , , come out, that that will be next week. . , , ., , come out, that that will be next week. , ., , , week. it has been a very slick social media _ week. it has been a very slick social media campaign - week. it has been a very slick social media campaign from i week. it has been a very slick- social media campaign from labour at this time around. there've been a lot of videos posted by the central office. the debate format like this is a bit old hat, most of this battle is being waged on the internet? �* , ., ., ., ., internet? there's a lot of that, i think that's _ internet? there's a lot of that, i think that's happening - internet? there's a lot of that, i i think that's happening consistently since actually referendum debate around _ since actually referendum debate around brexit, certainly 2017 was a bil around brexit, certainly 2017 was a big lesson — around brexit, certainly 2017 was a big lesson in that. if the debate format — big lesson in that. if the debate format is — big lesson in that. if the debate format is going to change, i think people need to find a way to be more engaged _ people need to find a way to be more engaged a _ people need to find a way to be more engaged a bit and it was linda's question— engaged a bit and it was linda's question of who you spoke to earlier, — question of who you spoke to earlier, everybody says they're going — earlier, everybody says they're going to — earlier, everybody says they're going to change something but they don't _ going to change something but they don't and _ going to change something but they don't. and lots of the smaller parties — don't. and lots of the smaller parties are taking that, that trust issue _ parties are taking that, that trust issue and — parties are taking that, that trust issue and running with it. and

they're — issue and running with it. and they're getting to communicate with people _ they're getting to communicate with people the starting position has to be in _ people the starting position has to be in solid — people the starting position has to be in solid policy and a little bit of truth — be in solid policy and a little bit of truth behind what they're saying and not _ of truth behind what they're saying and notjust... if of truth behind what they're saying and notjust---_ and notjust... if that burning cuestion and notjust... if that burning question is — and notjust... if that burning question is trust _ and notjust... if that burning question is trust and - and notjust... if that burning question is trust and the - and notjust. .. if that burning i question is trust and the posters were saying nobody really believes we're getting to the need to know, to the nub of the services being paid for, there's real dangerfor labour that actually people just don't go and vote. i labour that actually people 'ust don't go and votei don't go and vote. i think the labour party _ don't go and vote. i think the labour party is _ don't go and vote. i think the labour party is aware - don't go and vote. i think the labour party is aware that i don't go and vote. i think the i labour party is aware that they cannot be complacent about this, and there's a huge feeling out there that people want a change, but labour absolutely has to streamline what that change is going to be. do you think they have to do more in the final three orfour you think they have to do more in the final three or four weeks? i think they will do more, and when the manifesto comes out it will be a really important today, the final bits of the manifesto being agreed, that will be a big moment for any party, particularly big for the labour party. with the link that they have come a people wanting change, people don't want to give any party a blank check, they want to know what labor's plan is. they

want to say to people, this is a confident, optimistic vision for the future, this is how we're going to fix britain after 1a years of tory mismanagement, and that's where the manifesto will be another really important point in the journey. but important point in the 'ourney. but thanks to important point in the journey. but thanks to fall apart when manifestos come out _ thanks to fall apart when manifestos come out. as we've both been veterans— come out. as we've both been veterans of election campaigns where that has— veterans of election campaigns where that has happened, the build up to the manifesto, what's going to be in there. _ the manifesto, what's going to be in there. how— the manifesto, what's going to be in there, how was accosted, that's going _ there, how was accosted, that's going to — there, how was accosted, that's going to be a lot scrutiny given labor's — going to be a lot scrutiny given labor's poll lead. was going to be a parent is— labor's poll lead. was going to be a parent is that's going to be that much _ parent is that's going to be that much difference between labour and the conservatives and what they're offering _ the conservatives and what they're offering and i think we'll really hone _ offering and i think we'll really hone in — offering and i think we'll really hone in on the details of that point — hone in on the details of that toint. , , ., hone in on the details of that oint, . , ., ., hone in on the details of that toint, , . ., ,., hone in on the details of that toint. , . ., ., point. just a final point on the manifestos, _ point. just a final point on the manifestos, there _ point. just a final point on the manifestos, there is - point. just a final point on the manifestos, there is been - point. just a final point on the i manifestos, there is been some speculation that the tories need something, inheritance tax is being dangled, do you think gensler might decide to scrap the inheritance taxi think if he does, i can see the logic for trying to win back some

core important but it is quite a difficult one, i think, there's a lot of attack territory there so they may not want to open themselves for that. �* ., ., . for that. another unfunded tax cut for that. another unfunded tax cut for some of— for that. another unfunded tax cut for some of the _ for that. another unfunded tax cut for some of the wealthiest - for that. another unfunded tax cut for some of the wealthiest estates in the country... massive crippling cost of living crisis, the other thing we should look out for in the conservative manifesto is leaving the european convention of human rights. that something reform is going to be pushing them hard, there will be a lot of division in the conservative party about doing that a lot of die—hard conservatives know that some of the right thing to do, that some of the right thing to do, that something... that some of the right thing to do, that something. . ._ that something... brexit only got one look into _ that something... brexit only got one look into night. _ that something... brexit only got one look into night. we - that something... brexit only got| one look into night. we discussed this earlier. _ one look into night. we discussed this earlier, it _ one look into night. we discussed this earlier, it was _ one look into night. we discussed this earlier, it was fascinating - this earlier, it was fascinating because — this earlier, it was fascinating because of this pivot between... and brexit. _ because of this pivot between... and brexit. the _ because of this pivot between... and brexit, the great thing approach is pushing _ brexit, the great thing approach is pushing during the brexit referendum was around _ pushing during the brexit referendum was around immigration and freedom of movement, and there didn't seem to be _ of movement, and there didn't seem to be any— of movement, and there didn't seem to be any kind of coherent thesis around _ to be any kind of coherent thesis around what reform was offering. 1 around what reform was offering. wonder around what reform was offering. i wonder about that because we had

reform over the table and there wasn't a lot of detail on how they were doing it differently.- were doing it differently. when nicel were doing it differently. when nigel farage — were doing it differently. when nigel farage looked _ were doing it differently. when nigel farage looked at - were doing it differently. when nigel farage looked at the - were doing it differently. la't�*ie�*i nigel farage looked at the camera and said we need a revolution, we need a revolution in this country, a lot of people went, brexit was about to be the revolution, that's what you pushed, that was the big panacea to all the problems. i think labour doesn't want to relitigate brexit. not this side of the election? absolutely not. there was a kind of renegotiation with the trading arrangements and they said we would like to have a closest relation with you. like to have a closest relation with ou. ~ ., , ., , . you. we need to be realistic here, nobody wants _ you. we need to be realistic here, nobody wants to _ you. we need to be realistic here, nobody wants to relitigate - you. we need to be realistic here, nobody wants to relitigate the - you. we need to be realistic here, i nobody wants to relitigate the whole thing with europe, and it's like labour it is like hey you're up, we're ready to go back. europe might have other plans right now. laughter were all going to get checked out. we're all going to get thrown out.

listen, as a group been a great pleasure from a thank you very much indeed. that's it from us here in the situation room, people are beginning to drift away, there's plenty of fact checking, the verify team are working through what we sing tonight and all the clips of the best bits of the debate is welcome and thank you for watching her but we'll hand you over to abby. having very good night. him. i returned home before the international leaders event later in the day. on reflection, that was a mistake and i apologise. there was a chorus of disapproval for his actions at tonight's bbc election debate. yes, good evening from the debate spin room. there was universal criticism — spin room. there was universal criticism of— spin room. there was universal criticism of the prime minister from the politicians on the programme tonight, — the politicians on the programme tonight, including from a member of

his own _ tonight, including from a member of his own cabinet. also tonight... cctv images emerge of the last sighting of missing tv presenter michael mosley. the search for him continues in greece. my one regret in terms of the tours that we've done is that i really, really should have come to play in scotland more. taylor swift delights fans, as she kicks off her uk tour in edinburgh. and iceland send a chill through england in theirfinal friendly before the euros. on bbc london — a man who fought back as a dog tried to maul him says stay with us on bbc news for continuing coverage and analysis from our team of correspondents in the uk and around the world. good evening. rishi sunak has apologised and said he made a mistake by leaving yesterday's d—day ceremonies

in france early. the prime minister attended a service commemorating british veterans — but then returned to london and recorded a television interview. tonight, during the second tv debate of the election campaign, the cabinet minster penny mordaunt said rishi sunak had been "completely wrong" to leave when he did. our political editor chris masonjoins me from the debate's spin room. yeah comedy evening, so a septet of politicians for 90 minutes on a friday night —— yeah, good evening. it's not usual entertainment but there is an election on. lots discussed and we will bring you the highlights and a keen reminder there is lots of focus in this campaign on the race to be prime minister, but there is a lot of options that voters will have in front of them depending on where you are around the uk and a cacophony of voices and

we got a real sense of that this evening here on bbc one. and all seven of them had rather a lot to say about the big story of the day. when this music gets an outing you know polling day is getting close. and within minutes of the night's debate beginning, today's row was centre stage. debate beginning, today's row was centre stage-— centre stage. what happened was com-letel centre stage. what happened was completely wrong _ centre stage. what happened was completely wrong and _ centre stage. what happened was completely wrong and the - centre stage. what happened was completely wrong and the prime i completely wrong and the prime minister has rightly apologised for that. ., ~ minister has rightly apologised for that. . ,, , ., ., ., minister has rightly apologised for that. . ,, ., ., ., that. thank you to all those that have served _ that. thank you to all those that have served in _ that. thank you to all those that have served in our _ that. thank you to all those that have served in our armed - that. thank you to all those that| have served in our armed forces that. thank you to all those that - have served in our armed forces and continue _ have served in our armed forces and continue to— have served in our armed forces and continue to do so, in what is a very insecure _ continue to do so, in what is a very insecure world at the moment. it insecure world at the moment. a prime minister who puts his own political— prime minister who puts his own political career _ prime minister who puts his own political career before _ prime minister who puts his own political career before public- political career before public service — political career before public service is _ political career before public service is no— political career before public service is no prime - political career before public service is no prime ministerl political career before public. service is no prime minister at political career before public- service is no prime minister at all. it service is no prime minister at all. it was _ service is no prime minister at all. it was not — service is no prime minister at all. it was not only— service is no prime minister at all. it was not only politically - it was not only politically shameful, but i think many others feel quite insulted.— feel quite insulted. we all owe a huce debt feel quite insulted. we all owe a huge debt to _ feel quite insulted. we all owe a huge debt to our _ feel quite insulted. we all owe a huge debt to our veterans, - feel quite insulted. we all owe a| huge debt to our veterans, those

from _ huge debt to our veterans, those from d—day and from conflict since. ithink— from d—day and from conflict since. i think it _ from d—day and from conflict since. i think it was — from d—day and from conflict since. i think it was a complete and utter disgrace and — i think it was a complete and utter disgrace and shows _ i think it was a complete and utter disgrace and shows us _ i think it was a complete and utter disgrace and shows us we - i think it was a complete and utter disgrace and shows us we actually| disgrace and shows us we actually have a _ disgrace and shows us we actually have a very— disgrace and shows us we actually have a very unpatriotic _ disgrace and shows us we actually have a very unpatriotic prime - have a very unpatriotic prime minister. _ have a very unpatriotic prime minister. it— have a very unpatriotic prime minister, it was _ have a very unpatriotic prime minister, it was dreadful. - have a very unpatriotic prime minister, it was dreadful. [i have a very unpatriotic prime minister, it was dreadful. i think what we saw _ minister, it was dreadful. i think what we saw from _ minister, it was dreadful. i think what we saw from the _ minister, it was dreadful. i think what we saw from the prime - minister, it was dreadful. i think - what we saw from the prime minister was panic and it's the same pre—election panic that gave us that back of a fag packet plan for a new national service.— national service. from this evening, to this morning, and _ national service. from this evening, to this morning, and rishi _ national service. from this evening, to this morning, and rishi sunak- to this morning, and rishi sunak arrives at a nursery in swindon. is it a new low point for you, prime minister, apologising to the veterans? i thought i'd turn up too. who is advising you, prime minister? inside, the sandpit and gentle chap with the nippers. what is your favourite ice cream flavour? sharp questions from the reporters. you left early. what were you thinking? over the past two days i've participated in a number of events in portsmouth and france to honour those who risked their lives to defend ourfreedom and our values 80 years ago. the itinerary for these events was set weeks ago,

before the start of the general election campaign, and having participated in all the british events, with british veterans, i returned home before the international leaders event later in the day. on reflection, that was a mistake and i apologise. but i am someone who will always admit when i've made a mistake, that's what you'll always get from me. i have to say, prime minister, you sound more exasperated than apologetic. these men made the ultimate sacrifice and you couldn't even sacrifice a whole afternoon. ken hay, a 98—year—old d—day veteran, told us that you let the country down. is he right? i participated in events both in portsmouth and in france over two days, because this is an incredibly important moment for our country, to commemorate the sacrifice of all of those and their service. leaders on the campaign trail hate having to spend time trying to explain away what happened yesterday. that is precisely what the prime minister is having to do today. the prime minister did attend plenty of d—day events,

but he missed a big gathering of world leaders. look at this — three leaders gather, and who's there for the uk? the bloke who was our prime minister eight years ago, lord cameron. the prime minister's apology is making headlines everywhere, and it's one of those days when my phone never stops ringing and i'm on the radio again. the danger, the potency of a moment like this, is that it has the capacity, and let's see, but it has the capacity to be noticed. by lunchtime we're in gloucestershire for rishi sunak�*s next campaign stop. and when you're having a bad day, nothing seems to go right. just look at the street in stonehouse he was visiting, as his own veterans' minister, himself a veteran, said this. undoubtedly veterans will feel pretty raw over this and i don't dispute that and i totally understand and personally it's a bit crushing, yes. but it is what it is and it's happened and he has apologised and he has made a mistake and it's not reflective of his

wider work on veterans. the labour leader was at the event yesterday that rishi sunak missed and you will not be surprised, he is quite keen to tell you about it. it was really important to me, it was a privilege to be there, and rishi sunak will have to answer for his choice. for me, there was only one choice, which was to be there to pay my respects, to say thank you. this evening the prime minister was in wiltshire, the questions and answers are still flowing. which shows we are _ answers are still flowing. which shows we are on _ answers are still flowing. which shows we are on the _ answers are still flowing. which shows we are on the right - answers are still flowing. which | shows we are on the right track. answers are still flowing. which - shows we are on the right track. but the nhs is disintegrating. 2500 gps in this— the nhs is disintegrating. 2500 gps in this country are currently unemployed due to your policy is. and a _ unemployed due to your policy is. and a fingerjabbing and angry gp wanting to diagnose a piece of her mind. a bumpy old day for rishi sunak that he will be glad he is very nearly over. chris mason, bbc

news. as we've seen, tonight saw the bbc�*s first televised debate of the election campaign, with representatives from seven political parties answering questions on issues including immigration, the health service and defence. our deputy political editor vicki young was watching. seven pa rty�*s seven party's with seven agendas, all hoping to persuade you that they have the answers. the questions came from the audience, reflecting concern about the economy, public services and high numbers of people coming to the uk. itihfhczit services and high numbers of people coming to the uk.— services and high numbers of people coming to the uk. what are the party is cocin to coming to the uk. what are the party is going to do — coming to the uk. what are the party is going to do about _ coming to the uk. what are the party is going to do about immigration? i is going to do about immigration? migration is absolutely essential to our public— migration is absolutely essential to our public services, it's absolutely essential— our public services, it's absolutely essential to our businesses and it's absolutely— essential to our businesses and it's absolutely essential to our economic... absolutely essential to our economic. . ._ absolutely essential to our economic... ~ ., ., ., economic... migration has been a cood economic... migration has been a good thing _ economic... migration has been a good thing for _ economic... migration has been a good thing for this _ economic... migration has been a good thing for this country - economic... migration has been a good thing for this country so - economic... migration has been a good thing for this country so in i good thing for this country so in the green — good thing for this country so in the green party— good thing for this country so in| the green party our immigration policy— the green party our immigration policy is — the green party our immigration policy is not _ the green party our immigration policy is not about _ the green party our immigration policy is not about arbitrary - policy is not about arbitrary numbers. _ policy is not about arbitrary numbers, that's _ policy is not about arbitrary numbers, that's why- policy is not about arbitrary numbers, that's why not i policy is not about arbitrary - numbers, that's why not talking about _ numbers, that's why not talking about caps _ numbers, that's why not talking about caps. instead, _ numbers, that's why not talking about caps. instead, it's- numbers, that's why not talking about caps. instead, it's about. about caps. instead, it's about making — about caps. instead, it's about making our— about caps. instead, it's about making our immigration- about caps. instead, it's abouti making our immigration system about caps. instead, it's about - making our immigration system fairer and more _ making our immigration system fairer and more humane _ and more humane but i unsurprisingly

the former— and more humane but i unsurprisingly the former leader— and more humane but i unsurprisingly the former leader of— and more humane but i unsurprisingly the former leader of the _ and more humane but i unsurprisingly the former leader of the brexit - the former leader of the brexit party— the former leader of the brexit party had — the former leader of the brexit party had a _ the former leader of the brexit party had a different _ the former leader of the brexit party had a different view. - the former leader of the brexit party had a different view. frankly, it's making — party had a different view. frankly, it's making us _ party had a different view. frankly, it's making us poorer, _ party had a different view. frankly, it's making us poorer, it's - it's making us poorer, it's diminishing our quality of life and it's nothing to do with race or any of those issues, it's to do with actually putting the interests of our communities first.— actually putting the interests of our communities first. let's change the tone of— our communities first. let's change the tone of the _ our communities first. let's change the tone of the debate _ our communities first. let's change the tone of the debate on - the tone of the debate on immigration. too much of it is framed — immigration. too much of it is framed around frankly the bigotry of people _ framed around frankly the bigotry of people like nigel farage. is framed around frankly the bigotry of people like nigel farage._ people like nigel farage. is that the best you _ people like nigel farage. is that the best you can _ people like nigel farage. is that the best you can do? _ people like nigel farage. is that the best you can do? plaid - people like nigel farage. is that l the best you can do? plaid cymru will stand up _ the best you can do? plaid cymru will stand up to _ the best you can do? plaid cymru will stand up to nigel— the best you can do? plaid cymru will stand up to nigel farage. - the best you can do? plaid cymru i will stand up to nigel farage. open the doors! benefits _ will stand up to nigel farage. open the doors! benefits for _ will stand up to nigel farage. onei the doors! benefits for everybody, lovely screen the best way to do this is to get parliament, go parliament, elected by you, to have an annual cap. what that will do is take into account the economic needs of the workforce but also the pressures that immigration puts on communities. pressures that immigration puts on communities-— pressures that immigration puts on communities. ., ., , , , communities. labour and the lib dems sa the communities. labour and the lib dems say the answer — communities. labour and the lib dems say the answer is _ communities. labour and the lib dems say the answer is to _ communities. labour and the lib dems say the answer is to boost _ say the answer is to boost training and wages for those already here. people come to this country and they

are propping up many of our services because we haven't trained the people to do that. this because we haven't trained the people to do that. this is how... we could cive people to do that. this is how... we could give care _ people to do that. this is how... we could give care workers _ people to do that. this is how... we could give care workers a higher- could give care workers a higher minimum — could give care workers a higher minimum wage, £2 higher, invest in ourcare— minimum wage, £2 higher, invest in our care workers, give them status, -ive our care workers, give them status, give them _ our care workers, give them status, give them profession in the —— progression in the workforce and when _ progression in the workforce and when we — progression in the workforce and when we have skill gaps invite people — when we have skill gaps invite people in _ when we have skill gaps invite people in from other countries and welcome _ people in from other countries and welcome them when they come. how much the countries _ welcome them when they come. how much the countries want to tax and spend is causing realfriction in this campaign. 26 spend is causing realfriction in this campaign-— spend is causing realfriction in thiscam-acin. m . ., , , this campaign. 26 separate tax sites in this last parliament. _ this campaign. 26 separate tax sites in this last parliament. about - this campaign. 26 separate tax sites in this last parliament. about 12 - in this last parliament. about 12 new taxes _ in this last parliament. about 12 new taxes and _ in this last parliament. about 12 new taxes and labour _ in this last parliament. about 12 new taxes and labour are - in this last parliament. about 12 new taxes and labour are going | in this last parliament. about 12 i new taxes and labour are going to bring _ new taxes and labour are going to bring in — new taxes and labour are going to brinc in... a new taxes and labour are going to brincin... ,,, new taxes and labour are going to bring in- - -— bring in... absolute rubbish, we absolutely _ bring in... absolute rubbish, we absolutely guarantee _ bring in... absolute rubbish, we absolutely guarantee we - bring in... absolute rubbish, we absolutely guarantee we will. absolutely guarantee we will not raise taxes for working people. you hear penny — raise taxes for working people. you hear penny mordaunt, whose government— hear penny mordaunt, whose government have _ hear penny mordaunt, whose government have put - hear penny mordaunt, whose government have put the - hear penny mordaunt, whose government have put the tax| hear penny mordaunt, whose - government have put the tax burden to the _ government have put the tax burden to the highest— government have put the tax burden to the highest in— government have put the tax burden to the highest in this _ government have put the tax burden to the highest in this country - government have put the tax burden to the highest in this country since i to the highest in this country since 19a8 to the highest in this country since 1948 pretending _ to the highest in this country since 19a8 pretending they _ to the highest in this country since 19a8 pretending they are - to the highest in this country since 19a8 pretending they are a - 19a8 pretending they are a tax-cutting _ 19a8 pretending they are a tax—cutting party, - 19a8 pretending they are a tax—cutting party, franklyi 19a8 pretending they are a i tax—cutting party, frankly it's dishonesty— tax—cutting party, frankly it's dishonesty on— tax—cutting party, frankly it's dishonesty on a _ tax—cutting party, frankly it's dishonesty on a breathtakingj tax—cutting party, frankly it's- dishonesty on a breathtaking scale. miss morden— dishonesty on a breathtaking scale. miss morden said _ dishonesty on a breathtaking scale.

miss morden said cutting _ dishonesty on a breathtaking scale. miss morden said cutting taxes - dishonesty on a breathtaking scale. miss morden said cutting taxes was in the party's dna. the snp called for more honesty.— for more honesty. there's £18 billion worth _ for more honesty. there's £18 billion worth of _ for more honesty. there's £18 billion worth of cuts _ for more honesty. there's £18 billion worth of cuts baked - for more honesty. there's £18 billion worth of cuts baked in l for more honesty. there's £18 - billion worth of cuts baked in which neither the labour party nor the conservative party are being honest about. instead, they are having the worst of westminster argument between them tonight instead of being honest with you. the between them tonight instead of being honest with you.— between them tonight instead of being honest with you. the lib dems called for fairer _ being honest with you. the lib dems called for fairer taxation. _ being honest with you. the lib dems called for fairer taxation. the - called for fairer taxation. the liberal democrats _ called for fairer taxation. the liberal democrats were the first party _ liberal democrats were the first party to — liberal democrats were the first party to call for a windfall tax on the big _ party to call for a windfall tax on the big oil— party to call for a windfall tax on the big oil and gas companies because — the big oil and gas companies because we saw the raw injustice of these _ because we saw the raw injustice of these big _ because we saw the raw injustice of these big companies raking in billions — these big companies raking in billions of pounds of profits when ordinary— billions of pounds of profits when ordinary folk couldn't afford to pay their energy bills. a ordinary folk couldn't afford to pay their energy bills.— ordinary folk couldn't afford to pay their energy bills. a green economy would create _ their energy bills. a green economy would create jobs, _ their energy bills. a green economy would create jobs, well-paid - their energy bills. a green economy would create jobs, well-paid jobs i would create jobs, well— paid jobs distributed — would create jobs, well—paid jobs distributed all— would create jobs, well—paid jobs distributed all over— would create jobs, well—paid jobs distributed all over the _ would create jobs, well—paid jobs distributed all over the country, i distributed all over the country, for example _ distributed all over the country, for example on— distributed all over the country, for example on a _ distributed all over the country, for example on a nationwide - distributed all over the country, i for example on a nationwide home insulation— for example on a nationwide home insulation programme. _ for example on a nationwide home insulation programme.— for example on a nationwide home insulation programme. when you have two tarties insulation programme. when you have two parties converging _ insulation programme. when you have two parties converging on _ insulation programme. when you have two parties converging on public - two parties converging on public spending, converging on taxation, who is going to make sure that you are able to see the investment in housing for your children? smiles and handshakes _ housing for your children? smiles and handshakes at _ housing for your children? smiles and handshakes at the _ housing for your children? smiles and handshakes at the end - housing for your children? smiles and handshakes at the end but i housing for your children? smilesl and handshakes at the end but the arguments will rage on. vicki young,

bbc news. as the political row around rishi sunak intensified, raf veteranjack hemmings was one of those making his way home from the d—day commemorations. jack attended the service at bayeux war cemetery with his grandson. he's been speaking to my colleague, sophie raworth. jack hemmings, you served with the raf during world war ii. you didn't take part in the d—day landings, but you were determined to be there. yeah. why? because after the war, i met a chap called stuart king, who had been an engineering officer, with a typhoon squadron, who had landed on the beach, on d—day, the very beaches that we have just seen. the prime minister was there, he was there at bayeux, where you were as well, the ceremony at bayeux. yeah. but he didn't stay for the international service. do you think that matters to the veterans?

oh, some will want to take issue at it, yes. i can understand the division of what he would call his duty. and he opted to... ..put the election before the thousands who were killed. but it seems it was the wrong decision. i guess i would go along with it. and do you think the veterans who were out there in normandy, people like you, you're 102... yeah. ..do you think that they will be upset that the prime minister didn't stay? quite a lot will be, yes. i think the prime minister is upset, isn't he? hasn't he made an apology?

jack hemmings there, on his way home from the d—day commemorations. our political editor chris mason is with me. what a day, chris. what a day, when ou hear what a day, chris. what a day, when you hear the — what a day, chris. what a day, when you hear the words _ what a day, chris. what a day, when you hear the words from _ what a day, chris. what a day, when you hear the words from mr - what a day, chris. what a day, when i you hear the words from mr hemmings, the gravity, the authority that comes with his experience, you don't need me to tell you just how awkward this has been for the prime minister. it's interesting that he chose to apologise and will try and make a virtue of at least being able to say i'm the kind of guy who is willing to apologise when i make a mistake. there's also a brutal truth in doing so in a general election campaign which is that it puts rocket boosters up the whole story. it makes a bigger story out of all of it. i've been trying to get to the anatomy of this clock up, to put it bluntly, and part of it is the of statecraft, when a prime minister as head of government is at an international event like that, the king is there and plenty of others,

loads and loads of conversations have gone on for weeks about this prior to the general election campaign, although the prime minister of all people had an idea of what was coming even if the rest of what was coming even if the rest of us didn't, and he says as we heard there that he would have come back early anyway irrespective of the election campaign and the interview he did on itv which does raise the question, wouldn't there have been questions around your judgment irrespective of the election if that's precisely what you would have done? bluntly what happened here is he and his team did not realise until this was too late that it would look terrible and when they realised it looked terrible, they realised it looked terrible, they said sorry. next week the prime minister will hope to put this behind him although 20 of conservatives are livid because they fear people will remember it. we will get to the manifestos and i expect the conservatives will cut stamp duty for first—time buyers, it doesn't look as though there will be a pledge on inheritance tax, but they'll try to get back to their big ticket items in the hope they can put a terrible day behind them. chris, thank you, chris mason, and

for more reaction to that decision on the part of rishi sunak to leave the d—day commemorations early, you canjoin faisal islam a little can join faisal islam a little later on newsnight. an apology for leaving normandy before the national commendation. more on newsnight with a top political panel on newsnight on bbc two at 10.30. now we will look at the rest of the news. new cctv images have emerged in greece which appear to show the missing tv presenter dr michael mosley less than half an hour after he left a beach to go on a walk. the 67—year—old was on holiday on the island of symi, which is between kos and rhodes. he set off from the beach at st nikolas at lunchtime on wednesday. the cctv images show

he appears to have made it to the nearby village of pedi. he was staying in gyalos with his wife, but failed to arrive there. joe inwood has the latest from the island. this appears to be michael mosley more than 20 minutes after setting off from the beach where he'd been relaxing with his wife. now, the cctv images were taken from a camera here in the village of pedi. crucially, that's at the end of the coastal road, which had been the source of so much concern. and it's led to the local mayor saying they're confident he did make it this far. for his handling of the dd celebrations including penny mordaunt representative in the debate saying that it was completely wrong and talking about how she wanted veterans to feel treasured. the, wanted veterans to feel treasured. real distancing herself as the representative of the leader of the commons, herself with the military background representing portsmouth seat or standing to be a candidate for the portsmouth seat so that was

really striking so the continuing fallout of that will be the story for the weekend. in terms of how it damages or not morale in the territory campaign, how does it affect tory candidates when he goes on the doorstep, knocking on doors. is it something that has resonated with people, something they have registered. how damaging would it be for morale, would it hurt morale, some of them were saying they were crestfallen. so i think the headlines if you like from the debate will certainly be about that. in terms of the bigger picture, quite interesting to see the areas where there was a real argument between labour and the tories particularly won over defence, angela rayner, labour deputy leader and penny mordaunt really crashing over security in the armed forces. also on tax. angela rayner defending labour�*s record again from penny mordaunt using this figure that has been quite discredited so far, this

figure of £2000 first brought up by rishi sunak that he allegedly bracelets but it taxes by £2000, despite much dissection of that claim in recent days, the independent subsistence regulator taking issue with it. but most the senior civil servant in the treasury distancing himself from the claim. again doubling down the chief secretary not back down. fiend again doubling down the chief secretary not back down. and rishi sunak himself _ secretary not back down. and rishi sunak himself with _ secretary not back down. and rishi sunak himself with the _ secretary not back down. and rishi sunak himself with the interview i secretary not back down. and rishi sunak himself with the interview in the interview where he came back from but sticking to that line but interesting that they can go with it despite being really for them back at them. but i think interesting as well to hear the lines of attacks from smaller parties. in some senses we have a lot of mention of the fact that labour are going to win the election. a lot of mentioning that the tories are finished from various smaller parties, plaid cymru, the snp, nigel farage even said in his closing statements so that is also an interesting dynamic that they are basically focusing on trying to influence labour policy and assume

they will form the next government. the one area that you do get a policy choice is on migration. nigel farage wants it to be a migration election saying reformer going to pledge zero net migration policy. labour par missing a labour force and the placement plan and a cap on net migration. yet, this seems like only the smaller part —— parties are able to talk up the benefits. interesting dynamics some interesting moments are when the audience claps it the audience was selected to be balanced to represent different viewpoints and supporters of each parties so it was a balanced audience and stephen flynn got one of the pigs rounds of applause from the snp leader in westminster when he said to be the monetisation of

trying to define this in his every party saying this is the cost of living election because of the migration election, obviously disruptive to voters to decide what they are voting on. i thought that was quite striking that actually that seems to resonate with the audience, that they did not want to talk up or talk down immigration and wanted something practical from the main parties. i think again, if you think about broader themes from the smaller parties trying to make the point that there is no difference between the labour in the tories on certain things. taxes, spending, defence. on migration. trying to make this point that, look, there needs to be some opposition to hold the two parties in check because in their eyes we are not offering enough to us. their eyes we are not offering enough to us— their eyes we are not offering enough to us. good to have you alongside _ enough to us. good to have you alongside and _ enough to us. good to have you alongside and thank— enough to us. good to have you alongside and thank you - enough to us. good to have you alongside and thank you for - enough to us. good to have you| alongside and thank you for your thoughts. it is interesting this policy on migration, i'm going from here tomorrow to brussels to cover the european parliamentary elections and what you will probably see if polls are correct is the fleeing to the right almost toward some of the

nationalist parties. maybe not as defined to some of the reports have said, but still, a migration identity politics kind of election. think on what has just happened in the united states, before he flew to normandy, president bite passing this executive authority, this executive order of some description that has closed down the border. and of course migration in the american election one of the top hole issues. if you look at gallup polls. so migration certainly an issue well beyond the uk election. here we have alysia from the times radio team. i see you scribbling. have you got a programme on tonight? taste see you scribbling. have you got a programme on tonight?— see you scribbling. have you got a programme on tonight? we have so man hits, programme on tonight? we have so many hits. it's _ programme on tonight? we have so many hits, it's been _ programme on tonight? we have so many hits, it's been a _ programme on tonight? we have so many hits, it's been a very - programme on tonight? we have so many hits, it's been a very busy - many hits, it's been a very busy evening. many hits, it's been a very busy eveninc. ~ . ., ,~. , evening. what have you been telling her listeners. _ evening. what have you been telling her listeners, what _ evening. what have you been telling her listeners, what have _ evening. what have you been telling her listeners, what have your - her listeners, what have your confucian spin? ii her listeners, what have your confucian spin?— her listeners, what have your confucian sin? ~ , . ~ ., , confucian spin? if few key takeaways firstl , confucian spin? if few key takeaways firstly. despite _ confucian spin? if few key takeaways firstly, despite their— confucian spin? if few key takeaways firstly, despite their been _ confucian spin? if few key takeaways firstly, despite their been seven - firstly, despite their been seven participants at this debate it was centred between penny mordaunt and angela rayner in a way you would

expect because realistically come the ath ofjuly, it will be the leader of either of those parties who aren't in number ten. i also think was that penny mordaunt was doubling down on that £2000 tax figure for the labour party. in the past few days since the first debate there has been so much fallout and querying about what the truth was in that figure, but conservative soaking to double down on that. i think the big question on that is why are they so keen to double down when there is evidence that it is slightly mischievous. is it somewhat similar to the _ slightly mischievous. is it somewhat similar to the brexit _ slightly mischievous. is it somewhat similar to the brexit campaign - slightly mischievous. is it somewhat similar to the brexit campaign in - similar to the brexit campaign in the figure on the side of the bus? very much so. they want to talk about the fact that the day may or may not increase taxes, the labour party and that is what is happening we are all talking about it. so whether does happens or not they will feel a small been there because everyone is talking about it. interesting say it will all be about

labour and their concerts in the end because they will form some government or flavour of it and i'm sure talking to audience members they like the introduction to the smaller parties. we talked want to think who was not very familiar with the greens but liked what she heard. do we as the media focus too much on the main parties to the exclusion of some of the other policy that comes from the smaller parties? absolutely and today was _ from the smaller parties? absolutely and today was a _ from the smaller parties? absolutely and today was a good _ from the smaller parties? absolutely and today was a good opportunity i from the smaller parties? absolutely and today was a good opportunity for the public to hear some of the ideas of the smaller parties. because the smaller parties, even though they will not end up in number ten, they have a huge impact in shaping, who will end up in number ten, the liberal democrats for example. they are predicted to sweep up sweets in the south west of england —— seats held by conservatives for some time that that may see them see a lot of seats. reform uk, nigel farage has seen a huge boost in reform uk's pulling. while that may not translate directly into seats for reform, it will have a damaging effect for the conservative party.

50 it shapes and influences our so it shapes and influences our political landscape.— so it shapes and influences our political landscape. what about niel political landscape. what about nigel farage — political landscape. what about nigel farage because _ political landscape. what about nigel farage because he - political landscape. what about i nigel farage because he exploded political landscape. what about - nigel farage because he exploded on the scene on monday with his announcement, did he have a good night? i announcement, did he have a good niuht? ~' , night? i think the most interesting thin about night? i think the most interesting thing about nigel— night? i think the most interesting thing about nigel farage _ night? i think the most interesting thing about nigel farage tonight i night? i think the most interesting i thing about nigel farage tonight was less about nigel farage and more about his interactions with penny mordaunt the conservative leader. i think given their situation in the polls, reform uk creeping up behind the conservative party people were surprised to see penny mordaunt lot of what he said unchallenged. it seemed to be angela rayner sleeping in and arguing, stephen flynn all of the other leaders. penny mordaunt seemed nervous and asked about things about migration which is odd considering just how big the threat of reform uk is in taking some of those traditional conservative voters. �* , ., those traditional conservative voters. , ., voters. best of luck with your progress _ voters. best of luck with your progress tonight. _ voters. best of luck with your progress tonight. alysia - voters. best of luck with your| progress tonight. alysia there voters. best of luck with your - progress tonight. alysia there from times radio. you can see some of the crews are packing up. just from the corner here, yes, here isjoe from delta poll. let's get an idea, come

up delta poll. let's get an idea, come up to any game changer views? i up to any game changer views? i don't think so. we talked before about how they have a potential to make a difference but in actual fact i think everyone played it defensively. it did not hear much outrageous comments or crazy behaviours i expect it will be as you were with bowling. haw behaviours i expect it will be as you were with bowling. how will smaller parties _ you were with bowling. how will smaller parties react _ you were with bowling. how will smaller parties react with - you were with bowling. how will smaller parties react with the i smaller parties react with the airtime that they got because we were staying around the corner there that they seem to benefit a lot from it tonight? that they seem to benefit a lot from it toniaht? ~ , that they seem to benefit a lot from ittoniuht? ~ , , that they seem to benefit a lot from ittoniht? , , , it tonight? absolutely. many people will have not — it tonight? absolutely. many people will have not heard _ it tonight? absolutely. many people will have not heard of _ it tonight? absolutely. many people will have not heard of many - it tonight? absolutely. many people will have not heard of many people| will have not heard of many people speaking there tonight. so even for a party like the lib dems, having daisy cooper front and centre will be a benefit to them. will it actually make a difference, particularly for regional parties, which of course you cannot vote for the rest of the country, it is difficult to see how their numbers would increase significantly. but it is definitely a benefit to everyone who took part itjust won't make a huge difference. fine who took part it 'ust won't make a huge difference.— who took part it 'ust won't make a huge difference. one think hamming u . huge difference. one think hamming u- time huge difference. one think hamming up time and — huge difference. one think hamming up time and again _ huge difference. one think hamming up time and again underneath - huge difference. one think hamming up time and again underneath all - huge difference. one think hamming up time and again underneath all of| up time and again underneath all of the impressions we got was trust and who they could leave and whether we were getting enough information. are

you picking up apathy out there among voters or do you think voters will come out in big numbers? the lowest turnout _ will come out in big numbers? iie lowest turnout we have will come out in big numbers? ’iie lowest turnout we have had will come out in big numbers? "iie lowest turnout we have had in will come out in big numbers? iie lowest turnout we have had in any general election was back in 2001 when we tipped blows 60% for the first time. i think there is the potential for the first time. i think there is the potentialfor the same first time. i think there is the potential for the same thing to happen this time around. it is quite difficult to tell. _ happen this time around. it is quite difficult to tell. why _ happen this time around. it is quite difficult to tell. why is _ difficult to tell. why is that? labour are a long way ahead in the polls, but looking beneath that, is that where you suggest may be it does not excite the electorate enough? does not excite the electorate enouuh? ,, ., , ., ., enough? keir starmer is around net zero many peeple — enough? keir starmer is around net zero many people think _ enough? keir starmer is around net zero many people think he - enough? keir starmer is around net zero many people think he is - enough? keir starmer is around net zero many people think he is doing| enough? keir starmer is around net | zero many people think he is doing a good job many people think he is doing a bad job it may not sound great but in historical terms it is close to david cameron or gordon brown, behind tony blair, but lots of people are behind tony on that. the key point here is as you say not the absolute force of prevalent but the relative performance he is more than 30 points ahead of her she so thatis

than 30 points ahead of her she so that is a big difference. a lot of what you talk about in terms of this is actually the continuation of a long—term trend of decline and trust, notjust politicians, trust, not just politicians, political trust, notjust politicians, political parties or political process in general, but british institutions. one thing actually that was particularly pleased about tonight was that everyone behave themselves. and though way that the whole event was conducted was quite positive generally speaking for the sorts of things if i positive generally speaking for the sorts of thing— sorts of things if i was to go down the stare sorts of things if i was to go down the stage i _ sorts of things if i was to go down the stage i know _ sorts of things if i was to go down the stage i know that _ sorts of things if i was to go down the stage i know that nigel- sorts of things if i was to go down | the stage i know that nigel farage once a migration election, i know the snp and stephen flynn want to talk about public services and how scotland has been left behind and what it receives. i know that labour want to make it about change and i know that the conservatives want to make it about tax and spend. what do the public want? the make it about tax and spend. what do the public want?— the public want? the most important issue for the — the public want? the most important issue for the public _ the public want? the most important issue for the public whether - the public want? the most important issue for the public whether you - the public want? the most important issue for the public whether you ask l issue for the public whether you ask them about as she is facing themselves or their families or the country as a whole is the cost of living, by some distance. the next

level down you get is the nhs, third tier, again, by some distance, immigration at the top of that. but it is one of the number of things along with climate change, taxation and other things. so the cost of living really is the most important game in town. historically speaking, if you win on economic management and you've been on leadership, you win the most seats in the general election. that has happened in any election. that has happened in any election since polling has began so those of the most important thing. i was making the point earlier i will be in brussels this weekend and it will be identity politics migration file election, it is in the united states, yes, cost of living is up there, are they actually entwined, those two things, if there is a cost—of—living crisis, to people look for someone to blame? inevitably, all of these things are interconnected in different ways to a degree to which people understand and appreciate that varies from person to person. ultimately, everyone is looking for a solution on the cost of living, first and foremost. so yes, there are stories you can tell about immigration, but

unless you can sell that in a way that resonates with people with regards to the cost of living, you're probably not want to make as he would like. b, you're probably not want to make as he would like-— he would like. a big week of manifestos _ he would like. a big week of manifestos coming - he would like. a big week of manifestos coming up, - he would like. a big week of manifestos coming up, do . he would like. a big week of i manifestos coming up, do they he would like. a big week of - manifestos coming up, do they make he would like. a big week of _ manifestos coming up, do they make a difference to polls? in manifestos coming up, do they make a difference to polls?— difference to polls? in the sense that they provide _ difference to polls? in the sense that they provide is _ difference to polls? in the sense that they provide is sought - that they provide is sought spotlight of attention for each of the parties and turned so that will have an impact but ultimately it will not consent to the manifest is because very few people out there are reading each manifesto from cover to cover and think coming to an informed decision about which party they are going to vote for. instead, the manifesto launch and the manifestos themselves are about the manifestos themselves are about the party's telling a story about themselves that they want the public to buy into. the degree to which they can do that will determine their success. aha, they can do that will determine their success.— they can do that will determine their success. a quick final word, and pulled _ their success. a quick final word, and pulled terms _ their success. a quick final word, and pulled terms which - their success. a quick final word, and pulled terms which is - their success. a quick final word, and pulled terms which is what i their success. a quick final word, | and pulled terms which is what we should be focusing on, any movement? nothing significant so far with the exception of the indication that there may be a small uptick for reform uk post nigel farage's announcement. this really, over the next few days, and our poll on

sunday... next few days, and our poll on sunday- - -_ sunday... on that issue what voucher do ou sunday... on that issue what voucher do you think — sunday... on that issue what voucher do you think you _ sunday... on that issue what voucher do you think you would _ sunday... on that issue what voucher do you think you would have - sunday... on that issue what voucher do you think you would have to - sunday... on that issue what voucher do you think you would have to get i do you think you would have to get two to really eat into seats, seats is the key thing. two to really eat into seats, seats is the key thing-— is the key thing. that is the difficult question. - is the key thing. that is the difficult question. i - is the key thing. that is the difficult question. i think. is the key thing. that is the | difficult question. i think 1-3 difficult question. i think 1—3 seats is reasonable as an expectation. beyond that it is difficult to see where there geographical strength lies because looking at somewhere like blackpool south they did well against conservatives, but conservatives plus reform uk did not come close to labour and that is where they need to be. . , labour and that is where they need to be. ., , ., ., labour and that is where they need tobe. ., ., ., to be. really good to have you on the programme- _ to be. really good to have you on the programme. joe _ to be. really good to have you on the programme. joe twyman - to be. really good to have you on the programme. joe twyman in i to be. really good to have you on - the programme. joe twyman in there for delta poll. that is it for me. i have come back from the extra flurry but that really is it. if i could just encourage you to take a look at us on sunday because we will be covering european parliamentary elections from brussel. really important i know that the uk is no longer in the european union, but a lot of the policy is decided by the european parliamentary elections so dojoin us for european parliamentary elections so do join us for that. european parliamentary elections so dojoin us for that. on european parliamentary elections so do join us for that. on sunday at seven o'clock ut time —— uk time.

debate date dominated by the pm's d—day departure. penny mordaunt says the decision to skip the main international commemoration in normandy was very wrong. where does it leave the campaign now? welcome to newnsight, live each weeknight with interviews and insight, on another big political night. with us tonight... cleo watson, the author and former downing street deputy chief of staff under boris johnson. luke tryl, pollster and director of more in common. and john ryley, the former head of sky news who brought leaders' debates to our screens. we'll also speak live to the northern ireland secretary and labour's deputy campaign coordinator. first, a taste of how the d—day row made its way into tonight's debate.

respect our veterans, including those, with the average age of 100, who were deserted by the prime minister in normandy yesterday, which i think was a complete and utter disgrace, and shows us we actually have a very un—patriotic prime minister. it was dreadful. penny morduant, can you respond to that, rishi sunak leaving the d—day commemorations before the end of the day? what happened was completely wrong, and the prime minister has rightly apologised for that. apologised to veterans, but also to all of us, because he was representing all of us _ i'm from portsmouth. i've also been defence secretary. and my wish at the end of this week is that all of our veterans feel completely treasured. nick joins nickjoins us. there is a lot moving, on d—day, on the manifestos, as we go on air tonight. let's just deal with that issue. can you make this make sense?

from what you heard today from the prime minister, what happened and where is this going? the prime minister, what happened and where is this going?— where is this going? the facts are that rishi sunak _ where is this going? the facts are that rishi sunak was _ where is this going? the facts are that rishi sunak was not - where is this going? the facts are that rishi sunak was not there i where is this going? the facts are j that rishi sunak was not there for the whole d—day commemorations. he was there for what he called the british bit, but he wasn't there for the international bit, the famous picture when david cameron was with the president of the united states, the president of the united states, the french president and the german chancellor. the prime minister came home for an interview with itv in which he denied that he was a liar over that £2000 figure. downing street's response to that was at the itinerary was fixed some time ago, so it is not quite as it appears, to which many in the conservative party say, your point is precisely what? your point is that you decided that you didn't need to be there for every nanosecond of this hugely significant and emotional event that every prime minister has been. bhd

every prime minister has been. and ou allude every prime minister has been. and you allude to _ every prime minister has been. and you allude to it. _ every prime minister has been. and you allude to it. does that make sense, that argument? is it any better that he didn't mean to do that before the general election? i suppose the thinking in downing street is that deals with the idea that he hurried back to make a political interview, but the bottom line is it is confirming that rishi sunak did not think that it was necessary for him to be there all the way through, and what did we have from tonight? we had penny morduant disowning rishi sunak. she said as we saw in that clip, it was completely wrong, and just in case we didn't quite hear that, she said it was very wrong. and interestingly tonight, matthew parris in the times who has always defended rishi sunak, described his column is the last safe haven for rishi sunak, headline, is it too late for a surname rishi sunak to fall on his sword? saying the prime minister has blown it, how people in the conservative party will be thinking,

can we get rid of him before the general election? matthew parris strongly doubts that will happen, rishi sunak will lead the party into the general election, but the fact that that is even being talked about ljy that that is even being talked about by matthew parris. iellie. that that is even being talked about by matthew parris.— by matthew parris. clio, can you make sense _ by matthew parris. clio, can you make sense of _ by matthew parris. clio, can you make sense of this? _ by matthew parris. clio, can you make sense of this? downing i by matthew parris. clio, can you - make sense of this? downing street will have been _ make sense of this? downing street will have been planning _ make sense of this? downing street will have been planning this - make sense of this? downing street will have been planning this for - will have been planning this for months. — will have been planning this for months, and you do have plenty of lime _ months, and you do have plenty of time to— months, and you do have plenty of time to work these things out. i can understand — time to work these things out. i can understand how in the thick of the campaign, — understand how in the thick of the campaign, you can't see the wood for the trees _ campaign, you can't see the wood for the trees. we will do this itv interview— the trees. we will do this itv interview with paul brand, and you won't _ interview with paul brand, and you won't necessarily think that that is on the _ won't necessarily think that that is on the same day as d—day. but from 'ust on the same day as d—day. but from just a _ on the same day as d—day. but from just a campaigning point of view, taking _ just a campaigning point of view, taking out— just a campaigning point of view, taking out what you morally should be taking out what you morally should he doing. _ taking out what you morally should be doing, you want conservative voters _ be doing, you want conservative voters to — be doing, you want conservative voters to see you with the royal family— voters to see you with the royal family in— voters to see you with the royal family in the armed forces, those of the two _ family in the armed forces, those of the two things they mind about, and the two things they mind about, and the one _ the two things they mind about, and the one advantage rishi sunak has over keir_ the one advantage rishi sunak has over keir starmerat the one advantage rishi sunak has

over keir starmer at the moment is that he _ over keir starmer at the moment is that he looks prime ministerial because — that he looks prime ministerial because he has the prime minister, so he _ because he has the prime minister, so he can— because he has the prime minister, so he can he — because he has the prime minister, so he can be there in the frame with joe biden— so he can be there in the frame with joe biden and emmanuel macron, and he wasn't _ joe biden and emmanuel macron, and he wasn't it— joe biden and emmanuel macron, and he wasn't. it is hard to make sense of, he wasn't. it is hard to make sense of. and _ he wasn't. it is hard to make sense of. and i_ he wasn't. it is hard to make sense of. and ijust— he wasn't. it is hard to make sense of, and ijust wonder if, it is not going _ of, and ijust wonder if, it is not going brittany, the conservative campaign, and i wonderwhetherthis isiust_ campaign, and i wonderwhetherthis isiust an _ campaign, and i wonderwhetherthis isjust an opportunity campaign, and i wonderwhetherthis is just an opportunity to try to fix something — is just an opportunity to try to fix something and slightly losing sight of what _ something and slightly losing sight of what they are trying to achieve. let's _ of what they are trying to achieve. let's remind ourselves of some of the things that have happened on this issue over the last 24—hour is. can't believe the enormity of such a huge gaffe. he's proved to me that he basically is not a patriotic leader of the conservative party. i think people willjust be i incredulous, and he's not fit to be prime minister. i think it's a tribute to the way he is that, you know, he thought on reflection he wished he'd stayed in france. # don't say a prayerfor me now... he just went home. he's completely misread it. # no, don't say a prayerfor me now...

i thought it was very- important for me to be there. i think it's political malpractice of the highest order. now rishi sunak will have to answer for his own actions. _ doesn't believe in the country, its people, its history. and he had a long—standing plan to return after... your actions freed a continent and built a better world. i not interested. he didn't need to apologise. it's just people making a mountain out of a molehill. you risked everything, i and we owe you everything. # save it till the morning after... over the past few days, i've participated in a number of events in portsmouth and france to honour those who risked their lives to defend our freedom and our values 80 years ago. and having participated in all the british events with british veterans, i returned home before the international leaders' event later in the day. on reflection that was

a mistake, and i apologise. big apology there. might we have had the seminal moment of this campaign already? i the seminal moment of this campaign alread ? ~ . already? i think we might have. neil kinnock blew— already? i think we might have. neil kinnock blew at _ already? i think we might have. neil kinnock blew at that _ already? i think we might have. neil kinnock blew at that rally _ already? i think we might have. neil kinnock blew at that rally his - kinnock blew at that rally his chances. _ kinnock blew at that rally his chances, gordon— kinnock blew at that rally his chances, gordon brown- kinnock blew at that rally his chances, gordon brown hadl kinnock blew at that rally his i chances, gordon brown had the difficulty— chances, gordon brown had the difficulty with _ chances, gordon brown had the difficulty with gillian _ chances, gordon brown had the difficulty with gillian duffy. it i chances, gordon brown had the difficulty with gillian duffy. it isj difficulty with gillian duffy. it is these _ difficulty with gillian duffy. it is these moments. _ difficulty with gillian duffy. it is these moments. what- difficulty with gillian duffy. it is these moments. what it - difficulty with gillian duffy. it is these moments. what it says. difficulty with gillian duffy. it is| these moments. what it says to difficulty with gillian duffy. it is i these moments. what it says to me difficulty with gillian duffy. it is - these moments. what it says to me is that the _ these moments. what it says to me is that the people — these moments. what it says to me is that the people around _ these moments. what it says to me is that the people around him _ these moments. what it says to me is that the people around him at - these moments. what it says to me is| that the people around him at number 10 are _ that the people around him at number 10 are not _ that the people around him at number 10 are not thinking _ that the people around him at number 10 are not thinking hard _ that the people around him at number 10 are not thinking hard enough - 10 are not thinking hard enough about— 10 are not thinking hard enough about the — 10 are not thinking hard enough about the pictures _ 10 are not thinking hard enough about the pictures of _ 10 are not thinking hard enough about the pictures of the - 10 are not thinking hard enough i about the pictures of the campaign, or as _ about the pictures of the campaign, or as well, — about the pictures of the campaign, or as well, what's _ about the pictures of the campaign, or as well, what's the _ about the pictures of the campaign, or as well, what's the conversationl or as well, what's the conversation that went — or as well, what's the conversation that went on — or as well, what's the conversation that went on between _ or as well, what's the conversation that went on between the - or as well, what's the conversation that went on between the current i that went on between the current foreign— that went on between the current foreign secretary— that went on between the current foreign secretary and _ that went on between the current foreign secretary and the - that went on between the current foreign secretary and the prime. foreign secretary and the prime minister. — foreign secretary and the prime minister, where _ foreign secretary and the prime minister, where mr— foreign secretary and the prime minister, where mr cameron i foreign secretary and the prime i minister, where mr cameron ended foreign secretary and the prime - minister, where mr cameron ended up standing _ minister, where mr cameron ended up standing next — minister, where mr cameron ended up standing next to — minister, where mr cameron ended up

standing next to those _ minister, where mr cameron ended up standing next to those presidents? i. standing next to those presidents? i would _ standing next to those presidents? i would like _ standing next to those presidents? i would like to — standing next to those presidents? i would like to know _ standing next to those presidents? i would like to know what _ standing next to those presidents? i would like to know what that - would like to know what that exchange _ would like to know what that exchange was, _ would like to know what that exchange was, because i would like to know what that i exchange was, because cameron would like to know what that - exchange was, because cameron is an astute _ exchange was, because cameron is an astute politician — exchange was, because cameron is an astute politician. he _ exchange was, because cameron is an astute politician. he should _ exchange was, because cameron is an astute politician. he should have i astute politician. he should have known _ astute politician. he should have known. ., ., , , g; , known. you would see this in 3d, exactly how _ known. you would see this in 3d, exactly how this _ known. you would see this in 3d, exactly how this would _ known. you would see this in 3d, exactly how this would play i known. you would see this in 3d, exactly how this would play out. | known. you would see this in 3d, i exactly how this would play out. so i don't think the full story has yet to come — i don't think the full story has yet to come out _ i don't think the full story has yet to come out-— to come out. john makes a really interesting _ to come out. john makes a really interesting point, _ to come out. john makes a really interesting point, talking - to come out. john makes a really interesting point, talking about i interesting point, talking about gillian duffy and the sheffield rally with gordon brown. those were not calculated. that awful moment for neil kinnock, that was him getting carried away. gillian duffy was a hot microphone moment. this by rishi sunak was planned. it was planned that he wouldn't be there, it was planned that david cameron will take his place. you can'tjust randomly walk up and stand next to the president of the united states. there is a huge amount of protocol. this was absolutely planned. but there is a huge amount of protocol. this was absolutely planned.- this was absolutely planned. but in an event this was absolutely planned. but in any event if — this was absolutely planned. but in any event if you _ this was absolutely planned. but in any event if you want _ this was absolutely planned. but in any event if you want to _ this was absolutely planned. but in any event if you want to be - this was absolutely planned. but in any event if you want to be prime l any event if you want to be prime minister, you surely want the face time on camera that macron and biden

had. , ., ., ., ., ., had. there is a war going on on european _ had. there is a war going on on european soil, _ had. there is a war going on on european soil, and _ had. there is a war going on on european soil, and the - had. there is a war going on on european soil, and the prime i european soil, and the prime minister— european soil, and the prime minister of— european soil, and the prime minister of the _ european soil, and the prime minister of the uk _ european soil, and the prime minister of the uk doesn't i european soil, and the prime i minister of the uk doesn't stay, he makes _ minister of the uk doesn't stay, he makes excuses _ minister of the uk doesn't stay, he makes excuses and _ minister of the uk doesn't stay, he makes excuses and leaves. - minister of the uk doesn't stay, he makes excuses and leaves. in i minister of the uk doesn't stay, he makes excuses and leaves. in terms of something _ makes excuses and leaves. in terms of something laser-guided - makes excuses and leaves. in terms of something laser-guided egg i of something laser—guided egg accentuating some of the appalling pain the conservatives have faced, i can't imagine anything you could conjure if you are trying to prise open that kind of reformed conservative access then d—day veterans, upsetting them? veterans, upsetting them ? absolutely. veterans, upsetting them? absolutely. in public opinion terms, this is nothing short of catastrophic for rishi sunak. we know the conservatives are already 20 points behind in the polls. they can't afford any mistakes, let alone a mistake like this, and the reason it is so catastrophic is because for lots of voters, it reinforces what they already thought about the prime minister, that he is out of touch, that he doesn't get it. and having spent the first two weeks of the campaign trying to woo back

disaffected conservatives who are threatening to go to reform or threatening to go to reform or threatening to go to reform or threatening to stay home, to do something to that group of voters who tend to be older and more invested in the military and our institutions, to skip the second half of that event and have this route running i'd genuinely think is serious political trouble. there are very few things i can imagine in this campaign that could have a similar impact.— this campaign that could have a similar impact. similar to losing paddington _ similar impact. similar to losing paddington bear— similar impact. similar to losing paddington bear on _ similar impact. similar to losing paddington bear on a _ similar impact. similar to losing paddington bear on a flight i similar impact. similar to losing paddington bear on a flight to i paddington bear on a flight to rwanda or something! if you are actually trying to come up with a development or a headline... {line development or a headline... one caveat. development or a headline... one caveat- how— development or a headline... one caveat. how do _ development ora headline... one caveat. how do young voters view d-dav _ caveat. how do young voters view d—day. does it have the impact, him not being _ d—day. does it have the impact, him not being there with the young voters? — not being there with the young voters? he has already lost them. he has lost _ voters? he has already lost them. he has lost young voters. this is his base, _ has lost young voters. this is his base, that — has lost young voters. this is his base, that is _ has lost young voters. this is his base, that is the problem. and obviously— base, that is the problem. and obviously we will get onto the

others — obviously we will get onto the others later, but if you lose your base, _ others later, but if you lose your base, that — others later, but if you lose your base, that is not good for sue nack, and if_ base, that is not good for sue nack, and if he _ base, that is not good for sue nack, and if he can't hold the people he can generally depend on. he and if he can't hold the people he can generally depend on. he came out re can generally depend on. he came out pretty quickly — can generally depend on. he came out pretty quickly this _ can generally depend on. he came out pretty quickly this morning _ can generally depend on. he came out pretty quickly this morning with - can generally depend on. he came out pretty quickly this morning with the i pretty quickly this morning with the apology. would that have been painful for him, apology. would that have been painfulfor him, or was it obvious to do it in the first place? i painful for him, or was it obvious to do it in the first place?- to do it in the first place? i think it will hurt _ to do it in the first place? i think it will hurt him, _ to do it in the first place? i think it will hurt him, because - to do it in the first place? i think it will hurt him, because you i to do it in the first place? i think it will hurt him, because you are j it will hurt him, because you are johnny— it will hurt him, because you are johnny mercer talking about this earlier~ — johnny mercer talking about this earlier. he does care about veterans, _ earlier. he does care about veterans, and his family has spent a lot of— veterans, and his family has spent a lot of time _ veterans, and his family has spent a lot of time doing charitable work with veterans and their families, so i think— with veterans and their families, so i think that — with veterans and their families, so i think that is why is such a painful— i think that is why is such a painful misstep for him personally, because _ painful misstep for him personally, because it — painful misstep for him personally, because it is one of those where he generally— because it is one of those where he generally doesn't feel out of touch, so it genuinely hurts even more. and you are _ so it genuinely hurts even more. and you are right, — so it genuinely hurts even more. and you are right, i think it was a very quick— you are right, i think it was a very quick and — you are right, i think it was a very quick and quite heartfelt apology, and i_ quick and quite heartfelt apology, and i can— quick and quite heartfelt apology, and i can see exactly why they've

done _ and i can see exactly why they've done that, — and i can see exactly why they've done that, but it came straightaway with the _ done that, but it came straightaway with the gaffe of being on the veterans _ with the gaffe of being on the veterans road or whatever it was, i 'ust veterans road or whatever it was, i just feel_ veterans road or whatever it was, i just feel like these things keep happening to him, and every time they try— happening to him, and every time they try to— happening to him, and every time they try to fix something, it is like a — they try to fix something, it is like a butterfly effect. there are ripples — like a butterfly effect. there are ripples into something else, and it isjust— ripples into something else, and it isjust so— ripples into something else, and it isjust so hard for them to be able to pause — isjust so hard for them to be able to pause. you are talking about this on newsnight for the second night in a row, _ on newsnight for the second night in a row, and _ on newsnight for the second night in a row, and it— on newsnight for the second night in a row, and it is an important ceremony— a row, and it is an important ceremony but it is a ceremony, in many— ceremony but it is a ceremony, in many ways— ceremony but it is a ceremony, in many ways completely unconnected to the general election, but these things— the general election, but these thingsjust keep happening but it 'ust thingsjust keep happening but it just seems to be very difficult to kind of— just seems to be very difficult to kind of hold on to.— kind of hold on to. what did you make of how — kind of hold on to. what did you make of how it _ kind of hold on to. what did you make of how it played _ kind of hold on to. what did you make of how it played out i kind of hold on to. what did you make of how it played out in - kind of hold on to. what did you i make of how it played out in the debate? i noticed that labour were a little bit reluctant to tackle this, whereas all the other parties did. i think there is a danger for labour if they— think there is a danger for labour if they were — think there is a danger for labour if they were seen _ think there is a danger for labour if they were seen to _ think there is a danger for labour if they were seen to be _ think there is a danger for labourl if they were seen to be politicising this directly — if they were seen to be politicising this directly. far— if they were seen to be politicising this directly. far better— if they were seen to be politicising this directly. far better from - if they were seen to be politicising this directly. far better from a - this directly. far better from a labour— this directly. far better from a labour strategy— this directly. far better from a labour strategy point - this directly. far better from a labour strategy point of - this directly. far better from a labour strategy point of view. this directly. far better from a. labour strategy point of view to this directly. far better from a - labour strategy point of view to let this play— labour strategy point of view to let this play out — labour strategy point of view to let this play out. you _ labour strategy point of view to let this play out. you don't _ labour strategy point of view to let this play out. you don't need - labour strategy point of view to let this play out. you don't need the l this play out. you don't need the attack— this play out. you don't need the attack tihe — this play out. you don't need the attack line as _ this play out. you don't need the attack line as an _ this play out. you don't need the attack line as an opposition - attack line as an opposition politiciah _ attack line as an opposition

politician. more _ attack line as an opposition politician. more interestingi attack line as an opposition - politician. more interesting was penny— politician. more interesting was penny mordaunt, _ politician. more interesting was penny mordaunt, of course, - politician. more interesting was| penny mordaunt, of course, who really _ penny mordaunt, of course, who really was — penny mordaunt, of course, who really was very _ penny mordaunt, of course, who really was very clear _ penny mordaunt, of course, who really was very clear as - penny mordaunt, of course, who really was very clear as nick- penny mordaunt, of course, who really was very clear as nick was| really was very clear as nick was saying. — really was very clear as nick was saying. that _ really was very clear as nick was saying, that this _ really was very clear as nick was saying, that this was _ really was very clear as nick was saying, that this was not - really was very clear as nick was saying, that this was not just - really was very clear as nick was saying, that this was not just a i saying, that this was not just a mistake. — saying, that this was not just a mistake. it _ saying, that this was not just a mistake, it was _ saying, that this was not just a mistake, it was wrong - saying, that this was not just a mistake, it was wrong that - saying, that this was not just a | mistake, it was wrong that this happened~ _ mistake, it was wrong that this happened-— mistake, it was wrong that this happened._ and . mistake, it was wrong that this | happened._ and that mistake, it was wrong that this - happened._ and that was happened. very wrong. and that was lookin: at happened. very wrong. and that was looking at her— happened. very wrong. and that was looking at her own _ happened. very wrong. and that was looking at her own future _ happened. very wrong. and that was looking at her own future in - looking at her own future in portsmouth, _ looking at her own future in portsmouth, she _ looking at her own future in portsmouth, she might- looking at her own future in| portsmouth, she might hold looking at her own future in - portsmouth, she might hold her looking at her own future in _ portsmouth, she might hold her seat, but also _ portsmouth, she might hold her seat, but also looking — portsmouth, she might hold her seat, but also looking at _ portsmouth, she might hold her seat, but also looking at the _ portsmouth, she might hold her seat, but also looking at the future - but also looking at the future because _ but also looking at the future because we _ but also looking at the future because we expect _ but also looking at the future because we expect that - but also looking at the future because we expect that if- but also looking at the future| because we expect that if she but also looking at the future - because we expect that if she does hold that _ because we expect that if she does hold that seat. _ because we expect that if she does hold that seat, she _ because we expect that if she does hold that seat, she is _ because we expect that if she does hold that seat, she is likely - because we expect that if she does hold that seat, she is likely to - because we expect that if she does hold that seat, she is likely to be l hold that seat, she is likely to be one of— hold that seat, she is likely to be one of the — hold that seat, she is likely to be one of the candidates _ hold that seat, she is likely to be one of the candidates to - hold that seat, she is likely to be one of the candidates to succeedj one of the candidates to succeed rishi _ one of the candidates to succeed rishi suhak_ one of the candidates to succeed rishi sunak of _ one of the candidates to succeed rishi sunak of the _ one of the candidates to succeed rishi sunak of the conservatives| rishi sunak of the conservatives lose the — rishi sunak of the conservatives lose the election. _ rishi sunak of the conservatives lose the election. find _ rishi sunak of the conservatives lose the election.— lose the election. and penny mordaunt — lose the election. and penny mordaunt did _ lose the election. and penny mordaunt did not _ lose the election. and penny mordaunt did not confront i lose the election. and penny i mordaunt did not confront nigel farage in that debate at all. it was like he wasn't _ farage in that debate at all. it was like he wasn't there. _ farage in that debate at all. it was like he wasn't there. he _ farage in that debate at all. it was like he wasn't there. he knew - like he wasn't there. he knew exactly what _ like he wasn't there. he knew exactly what he _ like he wasn't there. he knew exactly what he would - like he wasn't there. he knew exactly what he would be - like he wasn't there. he knew i exactly what he would be doing, tucking on this, so she held back. and do you think farage was surprised, do you think he will be successful in that? i surprised, do you think he will be successful in that?— surprised, do you think he will be successful in that? i think he will. i thou . ht successful in that? i think he will. i thought he _ successful in that? i think he will. i thought he was _ successful in that? i think he will. i thought he was quite _ successful in that? i think he will. i thought he was quite clever - i thought he was quite clever tonight _ i thought he was quite clever tonight he _ i thought he was quite clever tonight. he was— i thought he was quite clever tonight. he was impish, - i thought he was quite clever tonight. he was impish, he l i thought he was quite clever- tonight. he was impish, he didn't really— tonight. he was impish, he didn't really play— tonight. he was impish, he didn't really play the _ tonight. he was impish, he didn't really play the part _ tonight. he was impish, he didn't really play the part that - tonight. he was impish, he didn't really play the part that everyonej really play the part that everyone else played _ really play the part that everyone else played. he _ really play the part that everyone else played. he sort— really play the part that everyone else played. he sort of— really play the part that everyone else played. he sort of stood - really play the part that everyone i else played. he sort of stood aside and let— else played. he sort of stood aside and let them — else played. he sort of stood aside and let them talk— else played. he sort of stood aside and let them talk about _ else played. he sort of stood aside and let them talk about the - and let them talk about the election _

and let them talk about the election i_ and let them talk about the election. i thought - and let them talk about the election. i thought angela i and let them talk about the - election. i thought angela rayner was surprisingly— election. i thought angela rayner was surprisingly subdued - election. i thought angela rayner. was surprisingly subdued throughout the whole _ was surprisingly subdued throughout the whole debate, _ was surprisingly subdued throughout the whole debate, and _ was surprisingly subdued throughout the whole debate, and yet _ was surprisingly subdued throughout the whole debate, and yet again, - the whole debate, and yet again, labour— the whole debate, and yet again, labour hasn't _ the whole debate, and yet again, labour hasn't come _ the whole debate, and yet again, labour hasn't come up _ the whole debate, and yet again, labour hasn't come up with - the whole debate, and yet again, labour hasn't come up with a - labour hasn't come up with a definitive _ labour hasn't come up with a definitive response _ labour hasn't come up with a definitive response to - labour hasn't come up with a definitive response to the - labour hasn't come up with a - definitive response to the £2000 claim _ definitive response to the £2000 claim they— definitive response to the £2000 claim. they haven't _ definitive response to the £2000 claim. they haven't got - definitive response to the £2000 claim. they haven't got a - definitive response to the £2000 claim. they haven't got a form i definitive response to the £2000j claim. they haven't got a form of words _ claim. they haven't got a form of words that— claim. they haven't got a form of words that they _ claim. they haven't got a form of words that they should _ claim. they haven't got a form of words that they should have - claim. they haven't got a form of i words that they should have worked out since _ words that they should have worked out since tuesday— words that they should have worked out since tuesday night _ words that they should have worked out since tuesday night that - words that they should have worked out since tuesday night that will i out since tuesday night that will kill this — out since tuesday night that will kill this as— out since tuesday night that will kill this as a _ out since tuesday night that will kill this as a lie. _ out since tuesday night that will kill this as a lie. it _ out since tuesday night that will kill this as a lie. it hasn't - kill this as a lie. it hasn't happened _ kill this as a lie. it hasn't happened yet _ kill this as a lie. it hasn't happened yet in- kill this as a lie. it hasn't happened yet in this i kill this as a lie. it hasn't i happened yet in this election. kill this as a lie. it hasn't happened yet in this election. there was a very interesting _ happened yet in this election. was a very interesting strategic decision taken by labour on how angela rayner would handle that. she didn't knock it on the head, and you 90, didn't knock it on the head, and you go, why not? the decision they made was to let bbc verify make that point, let mishal husain make that point. step back, because they believe that will be much more effective than having angela rayner saying it was outrageous. we will pick up the general debate issues in a moment but we can now speak to chris heaton—harris northern ireland secretary and ellie reeves, labour's deputy national campaign director.

chris, can you imagine anything more toxic than disrespecting d—day veterans, whether or not it is in the middle of an election campaign? i agree with penny, he got it wrong, made a mistake, i'm very pleased he apologised very quickly for that. penny this evening did go on to make the point, the question i was asking about defence spending, the reaction about defence spending, the reaction about d—day actually came from the panellists that we saw. you about d-day actually came from the panellists that we saw.— panellists that we saw. you can't be -la in: panellists that we saw. you can't be playing this — panellists that we saw. you can't be playing this down... _ panellists that we saw. you can't be playing this down... not _ panellists that we saw. you can't be playing this down... not in the i playing this down... not in the slightest- _ playing this down... not in the slightest. what _ playing this down... not in the slightest. what i'm _ playing this down... not in the slightest. what i'm saying i playing this down... not in the slightest. what i'm saying is l playing this down... not in the i slightest. what i'm saying is there was another question in there that was another question in there that was equally fundamentally important about the credibility of national security under labour. you about the credibility of national security under labour. you have been a chief whip. — security under labour. you have been a chief whip. you _ security under labour. you have been a chief whip, you know _ security under labour. you have been a chief whip, you know how- security under labour. you have been a chief whip, you know how the i security under labour. you have been a chief whip, you know how the innerj a chief whip, you know how the inner workings of a party function, it doesn't sound like something is working? something is not going right there? it working? something is not going right there?— working? something is not going i right there?_ whose right there? it was a mistake. whose mistake? i listened _ right there? it was a mistake. whose mistake? i listened very _

right there? it was a mistake. whose mistake? i listened very carefully i mistake? i listened very carefully to what the prime minister said and he seemed to be sort of blaming some sort of google calendar, official got something wrong, that seemed to be what he was saying but that was actually a conscious decision not to attend the international part of this commemoration? i attend the international part of this commemoration?- attend the international part of this commemoration? i think the prime minister _ this commemoration? i think the prime minister said _ this commemoration? i think the prime minister said he _ this commemoration? i think the prime minister said he made i this commemoration? i think the prime minister said he made a i prime minister said he made a mistake and he apologised for it. what was the mistake? it was according importance to the most amazing piece of international coordination... amazing piece of international coordination. . .— amazing piece of international coordination... , . , coordination... they were incredible -ictures coordination... they were incredible pictures and — coordination... they were incredible pictures and it _ coordination... they were incredible pictures and it was _ coordination... they were incredible pictures and it was an _ coordination... they were incredible pictures and it was an incredible i pictures and it was an incredible ceremony. pictures and it was an incredible ceremony-— pictures and it was an incredible ceremon. , ., ., ., ,, ceremony. why would you want to miss that, i don't— ceremony. why would you want to miss that, i don't get — ceremony. why would you want to miss that, l don't get that, _ ceremony. why would you want to miss that, i don't get that, help _ ceremony. why would you want to miss that, i don't get that, help me - ceremony. why would you want to miss that, i don't get that, help me and i that, i don't get that, help me and us all here? i that, i don't get that, help me and us all here?— us all here? i don't thinki can, he made a mistake, _ us all here? i don't thinki can, he made a mistake, he _ us all here? i don't thinki can, he made a mistake, he admitted i us all here? i don't thinki can, he made a mistake, he admitted it . us all here? i don't think i can, he l made a mistake, he admitted it and there is much more to say about it because i don't know, i'm not in charge of anybody�*s google calendar, can't even get mine under control so... what might hang on, he is saying don't politicise it but i so... what might hang on, he is saying don't politicise it buti put saying don't politicise it but i put it to ou saying don't politicise it but i put it to you that _ saying don't politicise it but i put it to you that voters _ saying don't politicise it but i put it to you that voters have - saying don't politicise it but i put it to you that voters have the right to judge the promise and your party on what he does. the

to judge the promise and your party on what he does.— on what he does. the voters have every right _ on what he does. the voters have every right to _ on what he does. the voters have every right to choose _ on what he does. the voters have every right to choose on - on what he does. the voters have j every right to choose on whatever issue they choose and as a number of people would have told you already, not a single vote has been cast yet but this was a mistake, he got it wrong and he has apologised and there is really not much more i can say about it. if there is really not much more i can say about it— say about it. if you are an under 18 that has been _ say about it. if you are an under 18 that has been lectured _ say about it. if you are an under 18 that has been lectured by - say about it. if you are an under 18 that has been lectured by the i say about it. if you are an under 18 that has been lectured by the pm i say about it. if you are an under 18 i that has been lectured by the pm on dutyjust that has been lectured by the pm on duty just a that has been lectured by the pm on dutyjust a week ago and now he does this, how do you persuade an under 18 to perform national duty when the prime minister goes missing? firstly, a general election is about a whole host of moments and this was a whole host of moments and this was a bad one for us and for the prime minister. but there are a whole host of other moments... minister. but there are a whole host of other moments. . .— minister. but there are a whole host of other moments... there are some other moments. _ of other moments... there are some other moments, you _ of other moments... there are some other moments, you were _ of other moments... there are some other moments, you were with i of other moments... there are some other moments, you were with him l of other moments... there are some | other moments, you were with him by the titanic, there was the reigning lack of umbrella outside number 10. please go careful on the rejuvenation of the titanic in northern ireland which has created thousands ofjobs and demonstrates how far a place can come. {lilia thousands of jobs and demonstrates how far a place can come.— how far a place can come. ok, you can have that _ how far a place can come. ok, you can have that one. _ how far a place can come. ok, you can have that one. let's _ how far a place can come. ok, you can have that one. let's talk-

how far a place can come. ok, you can have that one. let's talk about downing street. this is not the only event like this, let's put it like that. do you sense the grip on your campaign, is it going well? the cam -aain campaign, is it going well? tue: campaign could go campaign, is it going well? tt9 campaign could go better campaign, is it going well? tt9: campaign could go better and campaign, is it going well? tt9 campaign could go better and i'm hoping it will do in the future but as a humble secretary of state just trying to do hisjob and go around the country and support our candidates, getting on the doors and talking to people is how you actually win votes and that is exactly what we are doing. have you soken to exactly what we are doing. have you spoken to the _ exactly what we are doing. have you spoken to the prime _ exactly what we are doing. have you spoken to the prime minister? i i spoken to the prime minister? i haven't, we have exchanged spoken to the prime minister? t haven't, we have exchanged messages actually. haven't, we have exchanged messages actuall . : :, :, haven't, we have exchanged messages actuall . : ., :, , , haven't, we have exchanged messages actuall . : :, :, , , , actually. and how do you sense he is reactin: to actually. and how do you sense he is reacting to what _ actually. and how do you sense he is reacting to what is _ actually. and how do you sense he is reacting to what is happening? i actually. and how do you sense he is reacting to what is happening? he i reacting to what is happening? h9: knows he made a mistake. it is obviously a factor in the general election campaign that he didn't want to have. i election campaign that he didn't want to have.— want to have. i mean, it is the most--- _ want to have. i mean, it is the most--- if— want to have. i mean, it is the most... if you _ want to have. i mean, it is the most... if you could _ want to have. i mean, it is the most... if you could pick i want to have. i mean, it is the most... if you could pick a i want to have. i mean, it is the | most... if you could pick a topic that would most damage a campaign, it would surely be d—day veterans being disrespected in some way? obviously didn't mean to

disrespected d—day veterans in the slightest, he attended a vast part of this ceremony, he missed the international part, that was a mistake, he has apologised for it. but in a campaign, you can only move forward. , :, ., , forward. there is one last substantive _ forward. there is one last substantive point - forward. there is one last substantive point here i forward. there is one last i substantive point here which is forward. there is one last - substantive point here which is he seemed to say i attended the british part and that is all we need to do, but the international part we can just let that go. what does he even mean by that? d—day was the most extraordinary international moment... t extraordinary international moment- - -_ extraordinary international moment. . . extraordinary international moment... ,, :, ., moment... i think that is a factual statement- _ moment... i think that is a factual statement. that _ moment... i think that is a factual statement. that seemed - moment... i think that is a factual statement. that seemed to i moment... i think that is a factual statement. that seemed to be i moment... i think that is a factual| statement. that seemed to be the hint. i'm statement. that seemed to be the hint- i'm trying _ statement. that seemed to be the hint. i'm trying to _ statement. that seemed to be the hint. i'm trying to understand i statement. that seemed to be the | hint. i'm trying to understand what he said. :, :, hint. i'm trying to understand what he said. :, ., :, ., he said. you have to ask him, faisal. he said. you have to ask him, faisal- you — he said. you have to ask him, faisal. you are _ he said. you have to ask him, faisal. you are his _ he said. you have to ask him, i faisal. you are his representative toniuht faisal. you are his representative toni . ht on faisal. you are his representative tonight on faisal. _ faisal. you are his representative tonight on faisal. he _ faisal. you are his representative tonight on faisal. he has- faisal. you are his representative i tonight on faisal. he has apologised toniuht and tonight on faisal. he has apologised tonight and we _ tonight on faisal. he has apologised tonight and we would _ tonight on faisal. he has apologised tonight and we would like _ tonight on faisal. he has apologised tonight and we would like obviouslyl tonight and we would like obviously tonight and we would like obviously to on other topics on the campaign. it hasn't been the smoothest campaign, you are the deputy leader, of the campaign, deselection rows,

you failed to deselect, you have the mps now but but it hasn't gone super smoothly for your party either? well, we have our candidates in place _ well, we have our candidates in place for— well, we have our candidates in place for the election. i think a number— place for the election. i think a number of— place for the election. i think a number of conservative candidates had to _ number of conservative candidates had to be — number of conservative candidates had to be replaced at the very last minute _ had to be replaced at the very last minute before close of nominations today _ minute before close of nominations today we — minute before close of nominations today. we have a fantastic set of candidates going forward into the general— candidates going forward into the general election, i'm very proud of each _ general election, i'm very proud of each and _ general election, i'm very proud of each and every one of them. what does it say — each and every one of them. what does it say about _ each and every one of them. what does it say about your— each and every one of them. wuat does it say about your party each and every one of them. writ does it say about your party that there were some deselection is at there were some deselection is at the end, some of the people of that deselect ended up having their own cushy safe seats, what does that say about how your party is run? we alwa s about how your party is run? we always go _ about how your party is run? we always go through a process of endorsing candidates to go forward for the _ endorsing candidates to go forward for the general election and we do it to the _ for the general election and we do it to the highest of standards from our candidates and it is right that people _ our candidates and it is right that people that stand for office on the labour_ people that stand for office on the labour platform have the highest standards and we endorsed our list earlier_ standards and we endorsed our list earlier this — standards and we endorsed our list earlier this week to go forward. is earlier this week to go forward. is it not earlier this week to go forward. it not a bit earlier this week to go forward. is it not a bit strange that members of your nec that decide these seats end

“p your nec that decide these seats end up with cushy, safe seats? is that a well functioning democratically run party? well functioning democratically run .a 2 . well functioning democratically run .a ? . ., ., well functioning democratically run party? well we have a long tradition of havin: party? well we have a long tradition of having fantastic _ party? well we have a long tradition of having fantastic members - party? well we have a long tradition of having fantastic members of- party? well we have a long tradition of having fantastic members of our. of having fantastic members of our party— of having fantastic members of our party on _ of having fantastic members of our party on the national executive committee but also where there are vacancies_ committee but also where there are vacancies that arise days out from the general election, we have to have _ the general election, we have to have a _ the general election, we have to have a process for selecting candidates and that process is that the nec_ candidates and that process is that the nec interview candidates and decide _ the nec interview candidates and decide on— the nec interview candidates and decide on them. find the nec interview candidates and decide on them.— the nec interview candidates and decide on them. and you are happy that diane abbott _ decide on them. and you are happy that diane abbott is _ decide on them. and you are happy that diane abbott is now _ decide on them. and you are happy that diane abbott is now a - decide on them. and you are happy that diane abbott is now a labour l that diane abbott is now a labour candidate, you will be fully backing her? , ., , , both candidate, you will be fully backing her?_ both of - candidate, you will be fully backing her?_ both of you, i her? yes, absolutely. both of you, ou saw her? yes, absolutely. both of you, you saw the _ her? yes, absolutely. both of you, you saw the debate _ her? yes, absolutely. both of you, you saw the debate tonight, - her? yes, absolutely. both of you, you saw the debate tonight, and i her? yes, absolutely. both of you, | you saw the debate tonight, and the smaller parties landed some blows on you in terms of honesty about taxation? i put it to you, whichever of you end up in cabinet in one month's time, you will be raising taxes as pointed out by the autumn? i think as night follows day, if labour get into government you will get a galore. today we had an

unfunded tax commitment in angela rayner�*s saying about the 2.5% spent on defence. now, that is not labour's position up until now, they have always said when money allows. there is another unfunded commitment that has been made which is a huge one. you look at the great british energy, that is going to be piling money onto people's bills going forward and not produce one vault of energy. there is a whole host of things here that the imf have pointed out our economy is set to grow, as you know, a good economics man, faster than most in the g7 in the coming five years. we man, faster than most in the g7 in the coming five years.— man, faster than most in the g7 in the coming five years. we have been clear that we — the coming five years. we have been clear that we won't _ the coming five years. we have been clear that we won't raise _ the coming five years. we have been clear that we won't raise national- clear that we won't raise national insurance. — clear that we won't raise national insurance, we won't raise income tax and we _ insurance, we won't raise income tax and we won't — insurance, we won't raise income tax and we won't raise vat. all of our plans _ and we won't raise vat. all of our plans are — and we won't raise vat. all of our plans are fully costed and funded. you gave — plans are fully costed and funded. you gave the example of great

british — you gave the example of great british energy, paid for by a proper windfall— british energy, paid for by a proper windfall tax on the gas and oil companies who have been making record _ companies who have been making record profits.— record profits. but isn't going to be due to any — record profits. but isn't going to be due to any energy? - record profits. but isn't going to be due to any energy? it - record profits. but isn't going to be due to any energy? it will. record profits. but isn't going to i be due to any energy? it will invest in the energy _ be due to any energy? it will invest in the energy of— be due to any energy? it will invest in the energy of the _ be due to any energy? it will invest in the energy of the future, - be due to any energy? it will invest in the energy of the future, helping us to— in the energy of the future, helping us to achieve net zero by 2030. gf us to achieve net zero by 2030. ©er the us to achieve net zero by 2030. the covenant us to achieve net zero by 2030. of the covenant will invest in this? yes and it will crowd in private investors _ yes and it will crowd in private investors i _ yes and it will crowd in private investors— yes and it will crowd in private investors. ~' , ., investors. i think you find it will crowd out _ investors. i think you find it will crowd out private _ investors. i think you find it will crowd out private investors. - investors. i think you find it will. crowd out private investors. there is some claims — crowd out private investors. there is some claims and _ crowd out private investors. there is some claims and counter- crowd out private investors. there is some claims and counter claims over what is actually going to be in the manifestos or not and all will be revealed this week, we hope. but you are both signed up to what viewers may be don't expect or know about which is an £11 billion tax rise through the freezes in the income tax thresholds for three years, that is £11 billion, more than 1p and you are both signed up to that. from now until after the election, the truth is both of you are going to raise taxes. we believe

the economy _ are going to raise taxes. we believe the economy is _ are going to raise taxes. we believe the economy is growing _ are going to raise taxes. we believe the economy is growing and - are going to raise taxes. we believe| the economy is growing and inflation is dropping, interest rates will start to going the right direction and they will be an opportunity to cut more and we also have chosen to do it through national insurance because it is the quickest way to get money into people's pockets. now at £900 in this current year. we believe there is a strong fiscal plan there. do believe there is a strong fiscal plan there-— believe there is a strong fiscal plan there. believe there is a strong fiscal lan there. i. ., , ~ plan there. do you really think the ublic's plan there. do you really think the public's listening? _ plan there. do you really think the public's listening? you _ plan there. do you really think the public's listening? you made - plan there. do you really think the public's listening? you made a - public's listening? you made a series of pledges in 2019 which were quite similarand series of pledges in 2019 which were quite similar and you don't say you have broken those pledges and yet taxes have spiralled higher and higher li% or 5% of gdp? irate taxes have spiralled higher and higher 496 or 596 of gdp? we are facin: the higher 496 or 596 of gdp? we are facing the highest _ higher 496 or 596 of gdp? we are facing the highest tax _ higher 496 or 596 of gdp? we are facing the highest tax burden - higher 496 or 596 of gdp? we are facing the highest tax burden in | higher 496 or 596 of gdp? we are i facing the highest tax burden in 70 years. _ facing the highest tax burden in 70 years, people are paying more in their— years, people are paying more in their mortgages.— their mortgages. there was a pandemic _ their mortgages. there was a pandemic in _ their mortgages. there was a pandemic in which _ their mortgages. there was a pandemic in which hundreds l their mortgages. there was a l pandemic in which hundreds of billions of pounds were spent to support this country and the tens of millions pounds that supported people's energy bills. there have been, i think it is fair to say, some otherfactors that been, i think it is fair to say, some other factors that have come and knocked what we... mr;

some other factors that have come and knocked what we. . .— some other factors that have come and knocked what we... my point is when ou and knocked what we... my point is when you make _ and knocked what we... my point is when you make these _ and knocked what we... my point is when you make these pledges - and knocked what we... my point is when you make these pledges to i and knocked what we... my point is. when you make these pledges to the public, both of your making his pledges, the public will see that you made some pledges and so you have stuck to those pledges and yet the tax burden has gone higher and higherfor the tax burden has gone higher and higher for whatever reason. why do you think they are going to listen to these pledges, do you think they are? i to these pledges, do you think they are? ~ to these pledges, do you think they are? ,, , ., ., to these pledges, do you think they are? ,, i. ., ., are? i think you are not giving the ublic are? i think you are not giving the public enough _ are? i think you are not giving the public enough credit _ are? i think you are not giving the public enough credit because - are? i think you are not giving the public enough credit because i - public enough credit because i believe they truly do, the ones that vote certainly do. and they will question us and labour and the other parties, the green party candidate tonightjust in the health bit committed an extra £70 billion to the nhs. these are meaty chunks that mean spending elsewhere doesn't... there's only so much pie. you mortgage _ there's only so much pie. you mortgage rates, _ there's only so much pie. you mortgage rates, liz _ there's only so much pie. you mortgage rates, liz truss bingo i could hearfrom mortgage rates, liz truss bingo i could hear from angela mortgage rates, liz truss bingo i could hearfrom angela rayner tonight. are you saying that if labour had been in power over the past two or three years, the bank of england wouldn't have raised interest rates, surely it would have been the same? we interest rates, surely it would have been the same?— been the same? we wouldn't have crashed the _ been the same? we wouldn't have crashed the economy _ been the same? we wouldn't have crashed the economy with - been the same? we wouldn't have crashed the economy with the - been the same? we wouldn't have| crashed the economy with the mini budget _ crashed the economy with the mini buduet. . , crashed the economy with the mini buduet. .,, i. .,

budget. last time you are in government _ budget. last time you are in government you _ budget. last time you are in government you are - budget. last time you are in i government you are absolutely crushed the economy.- government you are absolutely crushed the economy. there was a clobal crushed the economy. there was a global economic _ crushed the economy. there was a global economic crash, _ crushed the economy. there was a global economic crash, this - crushed the economy. there was a global economic crash, this was i crushed the economy. there was a global economic crash, this was a l global economic crash, this was a mini _ global economic crash, this was a mini budget that had unfunded tax cuts and _ mini budget that had unfunded tax cuts and spending commitments in it and it— cuts and spending commitments in it and it sent _ cuts and spending commitments in it and it sent the markets spiralling. that is— and it sent the markets spiralling. that is what sent interest rates rocketing _ that is what sent interest rates rocketinu. , , ., ., , ., rocketing. one must question to you, ellie, are rocketing. one must question to you, ellie. are you — rocketing. one must question to you, ellie, are you worried _ rocketing. one must question to you, ellie, are you worried about _ rocketing. one must question to you, ellie, are you worried about the i ellie, are you worried about the question to your left wing, progressive wing, the greens, people are more concerned about what is going on in the middle east, people who are concerned about brexit, what is your offer for them? they were chipping away at you in that debate today. chipping away at you in that debate toda . , , ., . ., chipping away at you in that debate toda. , .., ., today. this is an election about a chance. today. this is an election about a change- we _ today. this is an election about a change. we have _ today. this is an election about a change. we have had _ today. this is an election about a change. we have had 14 - today. this is an election about a change. we have had 14 years i today. this is an election about a change. we have had 14 years of| today. this is an election about a i change. we have had 14 years of the conservatives mismanaging the economy, — conservatives mismanaging the economy, failing our public services, _ economy, failing our public services, that is why in our first steps. — services, that is why in our first steps. we — services, that is why in our first steps, we have talked about the 6500 specialist _ steps, we have talked about the 6500 specialist teachers we will recruit~ ~~ _ specialist teachers we will recruit. . .— specialist teachers we will recruit... ~ ., ., ., ,~' recruit... we have done them, asking about our recruit... we have done them, asking about your left-wing. _ recruit... we have done them, asking about your left-wing. basically, i recruit... we have done them, asking about your left-wing. basically, are i about your left—wing. basically, are the green party going to end up doing what nigel farage has done to the conservative party? ihla. doing what nigel farage has done to the conservative party? ihlo. i doing what nigel farage has done to the conservative party?— the conservative party? no, i don't think so.

the conservative party? no, i don't think so- i— the conservative party? no, i don't think so- i am _ the conservative party? no, i don't think so. i am on _ the conservative party? no, i don't think so. i am on doorsteps - the conservative party? no, i don't think so. i am on doorsteps across| think so. i am on doorsteps across the country— think so. i am on doorsteps across the country and the response is positive — the country and the response is positive but not a single vote has been _ positive but not a single vote has been cast — positive but not a single vote has been cast yet and we are working hard _ been cast yet and we are working hard and — been cast yet and we are working hard and we are not complacent at all. �* , , . hard and we are not complacent at all. r , , ., ., hard and we are not complacent at all. . ,, ., ., ., all. and less than four weeks now till that day _ all. and less than four weeks now till that day for _ all. and less than four weeks now till that day for top _ all. and less than four weeks now till that day for top thanks - all. and less than four weeks now till that day for top thanks so i all. and less than four weeks now. till that day for top thanks so much forjoining us, chris heaton—harris and ellie reeves. the debate tonight was a big moment notjust for the tories and labour but 5 other parties too. and often their leaders aimed theirfire not at rishi sunak but at labour — here's a flavour of what angela rayner faced. you've just said that we | need a strong economy. you backed liz truss i and crashed our economy. you made people like me i redundant when we were in the home care service. applause. even liz truss on her worst day still recognised that we need a nuclear deterrent in this country, angela... and so do i. ..and so she still has the edge on you. and so do i. you need to ignore the snake oil salesman who delivered brexit and you need to challenge the labour party and the conservative party about why they aren't seeking to rejoin the single market, why they aren't seeking to double down on making

sure that we return to freedom of movement and why we aren't investing in renewables future. and yet here we are outperforming the euro and our exports are at a record high. the nhs has been chronically underfunded for decades, i it is on its knees, this cannot be allowed to continue. _ most of us agree about that but the answer is not, i as the conservatives - and surprisingly labour think, to invite big multinationall companies further into our national health service. when tony blair came in, at least there was a feeling of something different happening. i'm just not sensing that which is why we in plaid cymru say the tories are gone, labour are going to come into power but let's for goodness' sake make sure that people who feel ignored, as you do, are heard by that labour party when they came in. this parliament has been characterised by lawbreaking, by lying and by the economic illiteracy of the mini budget. and of all the things that the conservatives have broken, the worst thing that i think they have broken is people's hope.

do you remember going back on the tuition's fee pledge? i applause. that is a sore subject for us for sure. so, 50, nick, there were a few different sports going on on one stage. there were indeed. _ sports going on on one stage. there were indeed, seven _ sports going on on one stage. there were indeed, seven parties - sports going on on one stage. tue- were indeed, seven parties and now were indeed, seven parties and now we are focusing on the five. plaid, green and the snp, and nigel farage had everyone in his sights, because he wants to bring a revolt against the establishment, as he calls it, but obviously he is particularly keen to do as much damage as he can do to the conservative party in this election. 50, five floors below where we are now, i was in the bbc spin room, and i caught up with some of the luminaries from some of those five parties. we have seen 14 years of

conservative austerity and underinvestment. i think that is exactly what we saw on stage. angela rayner and penny mordaunt bickering over what felt unimportant. it was just undignified, but then you had the green party who were there with a real hope and change, offering genuine solutions for problems people are facing right now. he did ve well, people are facing right now. he did very well. his _ people are facing right now. he did very well, his aim _ people are facing right now. he did very well, his aim was _ people are facing right now. he did very well, his aim was to _ people are facing right now. he did very well, his aim was to get i people are facing right now. he did| very well, his aim was to get across the difference between the liberal democrats and the labour party, and paint the _ democrats and the labour party, and paint the labour party is the same as the _ paint the labour party is the same as the tories, and he did that well tonight, _ as the tories, and he did that well tonight, pushing the points that are not being _ tonight, pushing the points that are not being talked about by the other parties. _ not being talked about by the other parties, like trident and so on. he was getting — parties, like trident and so on. he was getting a lot of support. it was getting a lot of support. showed was getting a lot of support. it showed why we need plaid cymru mbs in westminster. — showed why we need plaid cymru mbs in westminster, that _ showed why we need plaid cymru mbs in westminster, that we _ showed why we need plaid cymru mbs in westminster, that we have - showed why we need plaid cymru mbs in westminster, that we have a - in westminster, that we have a positive — in westminster, that we have a positive vision— in westminster, that we have a positive vision for— in westminster, that we have a positive vision for our- in westminster, that we have a i positive vision for our communities and also _ positive vision for our communities and also the — positive vision for our communities and also the start _ positive vision for our communities and also the start contrast - positive vision for our communities and also the start contrast to i positive vision for our communities and also the start contrast to the i and also the start contrast to the westminster— and also the start contrast to the westminster politics _ and also the start contrast to the westminster politics of - and also the start contrast to the westminster politics of two i and also the start contrast to the i westminster politics of two parties, and it— westminster politics of two parties, and it shows — westminster politics of two parties, and it shows people _ westminster politics of two parties, and it shows people they _ westminster politics of two parties, and it shows people they have i westminster politics of two parties, and it shows people they have a i and it shows people they have a choice. — and it shows people they have a choice. it — and it shows people they have a choice. it is— and it shows people they have a choice, it is not— and it shows people they have a choice, it is not a _ and it shows people they have a choice, it is not a binary- and it shows people they have a

choice, it is not a binary choicel choice, it is not a binary choice between — choice, it is not a binary choice between conservative - choice, it is not a binary choice between conservative and i choice, it is not a binary choice i between conservative and labour, choice, it is not a binary choice - between conservative and labour, so that people _ between conservative and labour, so that people can— between conservative and labour, so that people can vote _ between conservative and labour, so that people can vote and _ between conservative and labour, so that people can vote and know- between conservative and labour, so that people can vote and know they i that people can vote and know they will have _ that people can vote and know they will have strong _ that people can vote and know they will have strong representatives i will have strong representatives in westminster— will have strong representatives in westminster fighting _ will have strong representatives in westminster fighting for _ will have strong representatives in westminster fighting for fairness, | westminster fighting for fairness, fighting _ westminster fighting for fairness, fighting for— westminster fighting for fairness, fighting for equality, _ westminster fighting for fairness, fighting for equality, and - westminster fighting for fairness, fighting for equality, and i'm i westminster fighting for fairness, fighting for equality, and i'm gladj fighting for equality, and i'm glad he also _ fighting for equality, and i'm glad he also put — fighting for equality, and i'm glad he also put nigel— fighting for equality, and i'm glad he also put nigel farage - fighting for equality, and i'm glad he also put nigel farage in - fighting for equality, and i'm glad he also put nigel farage in his. he also put nigel farage in his place. — he also put nigel farage in his place, because _ he also put nigel farage in his place, because that _ he also put nigel farage in his place, because that needed i he also put nigel farage in his- place, because that needed doing. [it place, because that needed doing. it went place, because that needed doing. went very well, she was right to keep out of the slanging match and she used her time to put forward our policies on the nhs in a real way as opposed to some of the more political people around the table. nigel is the only one who isn't a robot _ nigel is the only one who isn't a robot he — nigel is the only one who isn't a robot. he talks a language that people — robot. he talks a language that people understand that he connects with the _ people understand that he connects with the public, and i said this earlier, — with the public, and i said this earlier, when he is in clacton, people — earlier, when he is in clacton, people treat him like he is a hero. you saw— people treat him like he is a hero. you saw it— people treat him like he is a hero. you saw it yourself. so there is something _ you saw it yourself. so there is something deeply strange happening in the _ something deeply strange happening in the political world at the moment, and i think nigel made some .reat moment, and i think nigel made some great points. the moment, and i think nigel made some great points-— great points. the reform party there. great points. the reform party there- we _ great points. the reform party there. we have _ great points. the reform party there. we have some - breaking news from your polling organisation. hate breaking news from your polling organisation.— breaking news from your polling organisation. we have in the past few minutes _ organisation. we have in the past

few minutes just _ organisation. we have in the past few minutesjust close _ organisation. we have in the past few minutesjust close a - organisation. we have in the past few minutesjust close a poll i organisation. we have in the past few minutesjust close a poll of i few minutes just close a poll of debate watchers which finds that the winner of the debate according to viewers was nigel farage, with 25%, followed by angela rayner on 19%, followed by angela rayner on 19%, followed by angela rayner on 19%, followed by none of the above on 14%, with the others bringing up the rear. we also asked in that poll who out of rishi sunak and penny morduant would make the best conservative leader, and we found that amongst conservative 2019 voters, they were more than twice as likely to say that penny morduant would do a betterjob as prime minister than rishi sunak. find would do a betterjob as prime minister than rishi sunak. and when ou sa minister than rishi sunak. and when you say won — minister than rishi sunak. and when you say won the _ minister than rishi sunak. and when you say won the debate, _ minister than rishi sunak. and when you say won the debate, what i minister than rishi sunak. and when you say won the debate, what does l you say won the debate, what does that mean? will there be traffic and who people want to vote for, or is it just a who people want to vote for, or is itjust a hat who people want to vote for, or is it just a hat tip who people want to vote for, or is itjust a hat tip to your performance on the box today? you have to performance on the box today? you. have to remember that the people who will be watching the debate on a friday night are probably fairly engaged, they will probably have made their mind and up. going out clubbin: made their mind and up. going out clubbing later! _ clubbing later! i think nigel farage will be happy

with that 25% because it will keep up with that 25% because it will keep up some of the momentum he has been building since his announcement earlier this week.— building since his announcement earlier this week. john, you are the doneer earlier this week. john, you are the ioneer of earlier this week. john, you are the pioneer of these _ earlier this week. john, you are the pioneer of these debates _ earlier this week. john, you are the pioneer of these debates in - earlier this week. john, you are the pioneer of these debates in 2010. l earlier this week. john, you are the | pioneer of these debates in 2010. is it still adding to the democratic process? i it still adding to the democratic rocess? ~ , process? ithink it is. on prime-time _ process? ithink it is. on prime-time tv _ process? ithink it is. on prime-time tv on i process? ithink it is. on i prime-time tv on tuesday and process? ithink it is. on _ prime-time tv on tuesday and friday prime—time tv on tuesday and friday this week_ prime—time tv on tuesday and friday this week that has been an hour and a half. _ this week that has been an hour and a half. on _ this week that has been an hour and a half, on tuesday it was an hour, too short. — a half, on tuesday it was an hour, too short, and a discussion about the key— too short, and a discussion about the key issues facing the having said that, — the key issues facing the having said that, since we ran the campaign in2010, _ said that, since we ran the campaign in2010, i_ said that, since we ran the campaign in 2010, i think there has been mission — in 2010, i think there has been mission creep. in 2010 there were three _ mission creep. in 2010 there were three debates, and the key thing about— three debates, and the key thing about it — three debates, and the key thing about it was all the parties came together— about it was all the parties came together in the room, the broadcasters and the politicians together, and agreed to the format for all— together, and agreed to the format for all three debates, and critically, those three debates had a single _ critically, those three debates had a single theme. home affairs, foreign — a single theme. home affairs, foreign affairs and the economy. and

i think— foreign affairs and the economy. and i think that _ foreign affairs and the economy. and i think that lead to a better series of debates. what i still think needs to happen — of debates. what i still think needs to happen is a commission needs to be set _ to happen is a commission needs to be set up _ to happen is a commission needs to be set up that runs the debates, takes _ be set up that runs the debates, takes them out of the squabbling broadcasters, takes them out of the rival parties, and they set it up in advance — rival parties, and they set it up in advance of— rival parties, and they set it up in advance of the campaign, agree the format _ advance of the campaign, agree the format and — advance of the campaign, agree the format and get on with it. because _ format and get on with it. because they are part of the furniture now for our elections. ironically in 2010 they may have helped bring about the coalition, which has made the more complicated to try and organise, you might say. cleo, what did you make of what you saw in tonight's debates? who would have been most pleased with their performance? i have been most pleased with their performance?— performance? i think that after tuesda , performance? i think that after tuesday. people _ performance? i think that after tuesday, people have - performance? i think that after tuesday, people have sort i performance? i think that after tuesday, people have sort of. performance? i think that after i tuesday, people have sort of forgot that this _ tuesday, people have sort of forgot that this isn't — tuesday, people have sort of forgot that this isn't a _ tuesday, people have sort of forgot that this isn't a two—way— tuesday, people have sort of forgot that this isn't a two—way contest, i that this isn't a two—way contest, and it— that this isn't a two—way contest, and it was— that this isn't a two—way contest, and it was quite _ that this isn't a two—way contest, and it was quite refreshing. - that this isn't a two—way contest, and it was quite refreshing. if- that this isn't a two—way contest, | and it was quite refreshing. if you did watch— and it was quite refreshing. if you did watch the _ and it was quite refreshing. if you did watch the full— and it was quite refreshing. if you did watch the full hour _ and it was quite refreshing. if you did watch the full hour and - and it was quite refreshing. if you did watch the full hour and a - and it was quite refreshing. if you} did watch the full hour and a half, it was— did watch the full hour and a half, it was refreshing _ did watch the full hour and a half, it was refreshing to _ did watch the full hour and a half, it was refreshing to hear- did watch the full hour and a half, it was refreshing to hear some - it was refreshing to hear some differeht— it was refreshing to hear some different voices _ it was refreshing to hear some different voices in _ it was refreshing to hear some different voices in the - it was refreshing to hear some different voices in the mix, - it was refreshing to hear some different voices in the mix, so| it was refreshing to hear some - different voices in the mix, so you dhint— different voices in the mix, so you didn't fall— different voices in the mix, so you didn't fall asleep _ different voices in the mix, so you didn't fall asleep quite _ different voices in the mix, so you didn't fall asleep quite so - different voices in the mix, so you didn't fall asleep quite so much. l didn't fall asleep quite so much. they— didn't fall asleep quite so much. they are — didn't fall asleep quite so much. they are complicated, _ didn't fall asleep quite so much. they are complicated, and - didn't fall asleep quite so much. they are complicated, and it - didn't fall asleep quite so much. they are complicated, and it is i didn't fall asleep quite so much. - they are complicated, and it is hard to get— they are complicated, and it is hard to get all— they are complicated, and it is hard

to get all the — they are complicated, and it is hard to get all the issues _ they are complicated, and it is hard to get all the issues out _ they are complicated, and it is hard to get all the issues out there - they are complicated, and it is hard to get all the issues out there at - to get all the issues out there at once _ to get all the issues out there at once but — to get all the issues out there at once but it— to get all the issues out there at once. but it was _ to get all the issues out there at once. but it was interesting - to get all the issues out there at once. but it was interesting to l to get all the issues out there at l once. but it was interesting to see labour— once. but it was interesting to see labour under— once. but it was interesting to see labour under some _ once. but it was interesting to see labour under some strain - once. but it was interesting to see labour under some strain for- once. but it was interesting to see labour under some strain for the i labour under some strain for the first time — labour under some strain for the first time just _ labour under some strain for the first time just because _ labour under some strain for the first time just because they - labour under some strain for the first time just because they have| first time just because they have been _ first time just because they have been able — first time just because they have been able to— first time just because they have been able to sit _ first time just because they have been able to sit quite _ first time just because they have been able to sit quite tight - first time just because they have been able to sit quite tight so i first time just because they have| been able to sit quite tight so far and they— been able to sit quite tight so far and they haven't _ been able to sit quite tight so far and they haven't had _ been able to sit quite tight so far and they haven't had to - been able to sit quite tight so far and they haven't had to answer. been able to sit quite tight so farl and they haven't had to answer to marry— and they haven't had to answer to marry demanding _ and they haven't had to answer to many demanding questions - and they haven't had to answer to many demanding questions on - and they haven't had to answer to| many demanding questions on any and they haven't had to answer to i many demanding questions on any of the policies _ many demanding questions on any of the policies they— many demanding questions on any of the policies they are _ many demanding questions on any of the policies they are putting - the policies they are putting forward _ the policies they are putting forward so _ the policies they are putting forward so far. _ the policies they are putting forward so far. i— the policies they are putting forward so far. i do - the policies they are putting forward so far. i do think. the policies they are putting i forward so far. i do think that the policies they are putting - forward so far. i do think that the stars, _ forward so far. i do think that the stars, shatt— forward so far. i do think that the stars, shall we _ forward so far. i do think that the stars, shall we say, _ forward so far. i do think that the stars, shall we say, with- forward so far. i do think that the stars, shall we say, with the - forward so far. i do think that the stars, shall we say, with the best puhches' — stars, shall we say, with the best punches, were _ stars, shall we say, with the best punches, were people _ stars, shall we say, with the best punches, were people like - stars, shall we say, with the best punches, were people like nigell punches, were people like nigel farage _ punches, were people like nigel farage and _ punches, were people like nigel farage and the _ punches, were people like nigel farage and the green _ punches, were people like nigel farage and the green leader, i punches, were people like nigel- farage and the green leader, because they were _ farage and the green leader, because they were able — farage and the green leader, because they were able to _ farage and the green leader, because they were able to say, _ farage and the green leader, because they were able to say, you _ farage and the green leader, because they were able to say, you are - farage and the green leader, because they were able to say, you are not - they were able to say, you are not getting _ they were able to say, you are not getting the — they were able to say, you are not getting the change _ they were able to say, you are not getting the change that _ they were able to say, you are not getting the change that you - they were able to say, you are not getting the change that you want. | getting the change that you want. yes, getting the change that you want. yes. this— getting the change that you want. yes. this is— getting the change that you want. yes. this is a _ getting the change that you want. yes, this is a change _ getting the change that you want. yes, this is a change general- yes, this is a change general election. _ yes, this is a change general election, but— yes, this is a change general election, but if— yes, this is a change general election, but if you - yes, this is a change general election, but if you want - yes, this is a change general election, but if you want real change — election, but if you want real change you _ election, but if you want real change you need _ election, but if you want real change you need to - election, but if you want real change you need to be - election, but if you want real. change you need to be looking election, but if you want real- change you need to be looking at the fringe _ change you need to be looking at the fringe third _ change you need to be looking at the fringe third parties _ change you need to be looking at the fringe third parties that _ change you need to be looking at the fringe third parties that don't - fringe third parties that don't normally— fringe third parties that don't normally get _ fringe third parties that don't normally get a _ fringe third parties that don't normally get a look- fringe third parties that don't normally get a look in, - fringe third parties that don't normally get a look in, which fringe third parties that don't. normally get a look in, which i actually— normally get a look in, which i actually think— normally get a look in, which i actually think it's _ normally get a look in, which i actually think it's fair. - normally get a look in, which i actually think it's fair. she - normally get a look in, which i actually think it's fair. she made a wry comment _ actually think it's fair. she made a wry comment when _ actually think it's fair. she made a wry comment when penny - actually think it's fair. she made a l wry comment when penny morduant actually think it's fair. she made a - wry comment when penny morduant was arguing with angela rayner. she said, ou arguing with angela rayner. she said. you are _ arguing with angela rayner. she said, you are not very edifying. and it is sort— said, you are not very edifying. and it is sort of— said, you are not very edifying. and it is sort of true, _ said, you are not very edifying. and it is sort of true, and _ said, you are not very edifying. and it is sort of true, and it _ said, you are not very edifying. and it is sort of true, and it is _ said, you are not very edifying. and it is sort of true, and it is what - it is sort of true, and it is what we see — it is sort of true, and it is what we see in— it is sort of true, and it is what we see in the _ it is sort of true, and it is what we see in the house _ it is sort of true, and it is what we see in the house of- it is sort of true, and it is what i we see in the house of commons chamber— we see in the house of commons chamber is— we see in the house of commons chamber is all— we see in the house of commons chamber is all the _ we see in the house of commons chamber is all the time, - we see in the house of commons chamber is all the time, the - we see in the house of commons chamber is all the time, the big i chamber is all the time, the big prime _ chamber is all the time, the big prime minister's _ chamber is all the time, the big prime minister's questions, - chamber is all the time, the big| prime minister's questions, and chamber is all the time, the big - prime minister's questions, and any other— prime minister's questions, and any other parties — prime minister's questions, and any other parties get _ prime minister's questions, and any other parties get a _ prime minister's questions, and any

other parties get a little _ prime minister's questions, and any other parties get a little bit - prime minister's questions, and any other parties get a little bit of- prime minister's questions, and any other parties get a little bit of a - other parties get a little bit of a looking — other parties get a little bit of a looking at— other parties get a little bit of a looking at the _ other parties get a little bit of a looking at the end, _ other parties get a little bit of a looking at the end, and - other parties get a little bit of a looking at the end, and i- other parties get a little bit of a . looking at the end, and i suspect, other parties get a little bit of a - looking at the end, and i suspect, i don't _ looking at the end, and i suspect, i don't think— looking at the end, and i suspect, i don't thinkiust _ looking at the end, and i suspect, i don't thinkjust off— looking at the end, and i suspect, i don't thinkjust off tonight's - don't thinkjust off tonight's debate, _ don't thinkjust off tonight's debate, but _ don't thinkjust off tonight's debate, but i _ don't thinkjust off tonight's debate, but i think- don't thinkjust off tonight's debate, but i think the - don't thinkjust off tonight's - debate, but i think the eventual kind of— debate, but i think the eventual kind of overall— debate, but i think the eventual kind of overall vote _ debate, but i think the eventual kind of overall vote share - debate, but i think the eventual kind of overall vote share we i debate, but i think the eventuall kind of overall vote share we will see at _ kind of overall vote share we will see at the — kind of overall vote share we will see at the end _ kind of overall vote share we will see at the end of— kind of overall vote share we will see at the end of this _ kind of overall vote share we will see at the end of this general- see at the end of this general election— see at the end of this general election will— see at the end of this general election will see _ see at the end of this general election will see some - see at the end of this general election will see some of- see at the end of this general. election will see some of these third _ election will see some of these third parties— election will see some of these third parties picking _ election will see some of these third parties picking up - election will see some of these third parties picking up far- election will see some of these l third parties picking up far more votes _ third parties picking up far more votes than — third parties picking up far more votes than they— third parties picking up far more votes than they have _ third parties picking up far more votes than they have in - third parties picking up far morej votes than they have in previous years _ votes than they have in previous years~ [— votes than they have in previous ears. . ., ., , votes than they have in previous ears. ., ., ., , , years. i have to say on my entirely im artial years. i have to say on my entirely impartial bbc— years. i have to say on my entirely impartial bbc manner, _ years. i have to say on my entirely impartial bbc manner, the - years. i have to say on my entirely| impartial bbc manner, the moment years. i have to say on my entirely - impartial bbc manner, the moment of the debate was mishal husain mentioning tuition fees to daisy cooper, and she was really embarrassed. it is seared into their memory, because they had a devastating result at the 2015 election at the end of the coalition. but we journalists, election at the end of the coalition. but wejournalists, we love these debates, because they are very dramatic. there is a great theatre, we are in the spin room, we are trying to be like the americans, and in many ways they're quite telling. what do we learn about rishi sunak the other day? we learned about him in that liz truss debate. lots of facts. is he too

aggressive? what did we learn about keir starmer? the deliberative lawyer was very slow to come back on that 2000. perhaps he didn't know what it was, or in his lawyer where he is cautious, so we love them their theatre, he is cautious, so we love them theirtheatre, but he is cautious, so we love them their theatre, but you do have to wonder, are they actually going to make any difference to the result of this general election, or indeed any general election? nick clegg was more popular than winston churchill after the 2010 debates, and what happened? they do say that the debates meant they had a better result than they might otherwise have had. flan result than they might otherwise have had. . . r' result than they might otherwise have had. . . ,, result than they might otherwise have had. . . i. ., have had. can i ask you, though, we have had. can i ask you, though, we have obviously _ have had. can i ask you, though, we have obviously been _ have had. can i ask you, though, we have obviously been living _ have had. can i ask you, though, we have obviously been living in - have had. can i ask you, though, we have obviously been living in this - have obviously been living in this window where the revolt on the right, partly because of cleo's work on the vote to leave campaign and everything that has transpired after that, could there be a mirror image of this, luke, on the left, if the polls are right? you see this argument from the smaller parties, labour is going to win a massive majority, why don't you [end your

vote now to someone you believe in more, which is marrying together with labour's caution. irate more, which is marrying together with labour's caution.— with labour's caution. we have certainly been _ with labour's caution. we have certainly been seeing - with labour's caution. we have certainly been seeing splinteri certainly been seeing splinter parties — certainly been seeing splinter parties on _ certainly been seeing splinter parties on the _ certainly been seeing splinter parties on the left, _ certainly been seeing splinter. parties on the left, particularly the greens, _ parties on the left, particularly the greens, but— parties on the left, particularly the greens, but some - parties on the left, particularly the greens, but some of- parties on the left, particularly the greens, but some of the l the greens, but some of the independents— the greens, but some of the independents showing - the greens, but some of the independents showing theirl the greens, but some of the - independents showing their teeth. we saw that— independents showing their teeth. we saw that in— independents showing their teeth. we saw that in the — independents showing their teeth. we saw that in the local _ independents showing their teeth. we saw that in the local elections. - independents showing their teeth. we saw that in the local elections. it - saw that in the local elections. it looks— saw that in the local elections. it looks like — saw that in the local elections. it looks like it _ saw that in the local elections. it looks like it is _ saw that in the local elections. it looks like it is not _ saw that in the local elections. it looks like it is not going - saw that in the local elections. it looks like it is not going to - saw that in the local elections. itj looks like it is not going to cause labour— looks like it is not going to cause labour maior _ looks like it is not going to cause labour major problems - looks like it is not going to cause labour major problems in- looks like it is not going to cause labour major problems in this i labour major problems in this election. _ labour major problems in this election, not— labour major problems in this election, not least _ labour major problems in this election, not least because i labour major problems in this . election, not least because those voters _ election, not least because those voters tend — election, not least because those voters tend to _ election, not least because those voters tend to be _ election, not least because those voters tend to be concentrated i election, not least because those voters tend to be concentrated ini voters tend to be concentrated in safest _ voters tend to be concentrated in safest labour _ voters tend to be concentrated in safest labour seats _ voters tend to be concentrated in safest labour seats in— voters tend to be concentrated in safest labour seats in the - voters tend to be concentrated in safest labour seats in the cities, | safest labour seats in the cities, places— safest labour seats in the cities, places with — safest labour seats in the cities, places with lots _ safest labour seats in the cities, places with lots of _ safest labour seats in the cities, places with lots of students. - safest labour seats in the cities, places with lots of students. buti safest labour seats in the cities, - places with lots of students. but my concern _ places with lots of students. but my concern if _ places with lots of students. but my concern if i — places with lots of students. but my concern if i were _ places with lots of students. but my concern if i were labour— places with lots of students. but my concern if i were labour would - places with lots of students. but my concern if i were labour would be, l concern if i were labour would be, what _ concern if i were labour would be, what happens _ concern if i were labour would be, what happens when _ concern if i were labour would be, what happens when they- concern if i were labour would be, what happens when they win - what happens when they win government? _ what happens when they win government? with _ what happens when they win government? with the - what happens when they win i government? with the greens what happens when they win - government? with the greens start to play that— government? with the greens start to play that rote — government? with the greens start to play that rote the _ government? with the greens start to play that role the liberal— government? with the greens start to play that role the liberal democrats . play that role the liberal democrats used to _ play that role the liberal democrats used to play— play that role the liberal democrats used to play under— play that role the liberal democrats used to play under tony _ play that role the liberal democrats used to play under tony blair- play that role the liberal democrats used to play under tony blair in - used to play under tony blair in becoming — used to play under tony blair in becoming a _ used to play under tony blair in becoming a repository- used to play under tony blair in becoming a repository of- becoming a repository of disillusioned _ becoming a repository of disillusioned left- becoming a repository of disillusioned left wing i becoming a repository of- disillusioned left wing voices? find disillusioned left wing voices? and 'ust disillusioned left wing voices? and just quickly. _ disillusioned left wing voices? just quickly, if some of disillusioned left wing voices? bird just quickly, if some of these disillusioned left wing voices?- just quickly, if some of these polls are right, the headline polls, and those fancy mrp polls if they are right, is this being borne out by what all of you are hearing on the ground? are there very strange true blue seats where we are seeing them

and thinking, i like his antics, in totally bizarre, unexpected quarters? are we seeing any of that? it is not that they like ed davey or keir starmer, it is because they have fallen so out of love with the conservatives. we were in worthing west which should be a safe conservative seat, and you just think the tories have blown it, and thatis think the tories have blown it, and that is what his driving it rather than the other parties. is that is what his driving it rather than the other parties. is anyone takin: the than the other parties. is anyone taking the below— than the other parties. is anyone taking the below 100 _ than the other parties. is anyone taking the below 100 events - taking the below 100 events seriously?— taking the below 100 events seriously?- tell - taking the below 100 events seriously?- tell us. | taking the below 100 events| seriously?- tell us. i taking the below 100 events - seriously?- tell us. i think seriously? oh, yes. tell us. ithink it is worth — seriously? oh, yes. tell us. ithink it is worth bearing _ seriously? oh, yes. tell us. ithink it is worth bearing in _ seriously? oh, yes. tell us. ithink it is worth bearing in mind, - seriously? oh, yes. tell us. ithink it is worth bearing in mind, taking | it is worth bearing in mind, taking a step— it is worth bearing in mind, taking a step back— it is worth bearing in mind, taking a step back from _ it is worth bearing in mind, taking a step back from the _ it is worth bearing in mind, taking a step back from the campaign i a step back from the campaign itsetf, — a step back from the campaign itself, that— a step back from the campaign itself, that a _ a step back from the campaign itself, that a fifth _ a step back from the campaign itself, that a fifth term - a step back from the campaign itself, that a fifth term is - itself, that a fifth term is genuinely— itself, that a fifth term is| genuinely unprecedented, itself, that a fifth term is - genuinely unprecedented, and i remember— genuinely unprecedented, and i rememberwhen_ genuinely unprecedented, and i rememberwhen we _ genuinely unprecedented, and i remember when we won - genuinely unprecedented, and i remember when we won in- genuinely unprecedented, and i. remember when we won in 2019, genuinely unprecedented, and i- remember when we won in 2019, big majority, _ remember when we won in 2019, big majority, the — remember when we won in 2019, big manritv, the next _ remember when we won in 2019, big majority, the next day _ remember when we won in 2019, big majority, the next day being - remember when we won in 2019, big majority, the next day being called l majority, the next day being called into a _ majority, the next day being called into a room — majority, the next day being called into a room by— majority, the next day being called into a room by dominic— majority, the next day being calledj into a room by dominic cummings, majority, the next day being called - into a room by dominic cummings, and a group— into a room by dominic cummings, and a group of— into a room by dominic cummings, and a group of us— into a room by dominic cummings, and a group of us were _ into a room by dominic cummings, and a group of us were told, _ into a room by dominic cummings, and a group of us were told, to _ into a room by dominic cummings, and a group of us were told, to win- a group of us were told, to win again— a group of us were told, to win again in— a group of us were told, to win again in2024— a group of us were told, to win again in 2024 is— a group of us were told, to win again in 2024 is going - a group of us were told, to win again in 2024 is going to- a group of us were told, to win again in 2024 is going to take i a group of us were told, to win| again in 2024 is going to take a hell of— again in 2024 is going to take a hell of a — again in 2024 is going to take a hell of a tot— again in 2024 is going to take a hell of a lot of— again in 2024 is going to take a hell of a lot of work. _ again in 2024 is going to take a hell of a lot of work. the - again in 2024 is going to take a | hell of a lot of work. the people again in 2024 is going to take a i hell of a lot of work. the people of lent hell of a lot of work. the people of tent us _ hell of a lot of work. the people of tent us their— hell of a lot of work. the people of lent us their votes. _ hell of a lot of work. the people of lent us their votes. we _ hell of a lot of work. the people of lent us their votes. we need - hell of a lot of work. the people of lent us their votes. we need to- hell of a lot of work. the people of| lent us their votes. we need to get the bulldozers _

lent us their votes. we need to get the bulldozers in _ lent us their votes. we need to get the bulldozers in these _ lent us their votes. we need to get the bulldozers in these 40 - lent us their votes. we need to getl the bulldozers in these 40 hospitals now. the bulldozers in these 40 hospitals now you _ the bulldozers in these 40 hospitals now you won't _ the bulldozers in these 40 hospitals now. you won't get _ the bulldozers in these 40 hospitals now. you won't get them _ the bulldozers in these 40 hospitals now. you won't get them built - the bulldozers in these 40 hospitals now. you won't get them built in. now. you won't get them built in time, _ now. you won't get them built in time, but — now. you won't get them built in time, but in _ now. you won't get them built in time, but in 2024 _ now. you won't get them built in time, but in 2024 might- now. you won't get them built in time, but in 2024 might have . now. you won't get them built in time, but in 2024 might have a i now. you won't get them built in. time, but in 2024 might have a shot of saving. _ time, but in 2024 might have a shot of saving. we've _ time, but in 2024 might have a shot of saying, we've started _ time, but in 2024 might have a shot of saying, we've started the - time, but in 2024 might have a shot of saying, we've started the work, l of saying, we've started the work, .ive of saying, we've started the work, give us _ of saying, we've started the work, give us five — of saying, we've started the work, give us five more _ of saying, we've started the work, give us five more years _ of saying, we've started the work, give us five more years to - of saying, we've started the work, give us five more years to finish . give us five more years to finish the job — give us five more years to finish the job and _ give us five more years to finish the job and as _ give us five more years to finish the job. and as chris— give us five more years to finish the job. and as chris said - give us five more years to finish. the job. and as chris said earlier, covid _ the job. and as chris said earlier, covid came — the job. and as chris said earlier, covid came along, _ the job. and as chris said earlier, covid came along, various- the job. and as chris said earlier, covid came along, various other. covid came along, various other problems. — covid came along, various other problems. but— covid came along, various other problems, but it _ covid came along, various other problems, but it is _ covid came along, various other problems, but it is hard - covid came along, various other problems, but it is hard to- covid came along, various other. problems, but it is hard to believe that the _ problems, but it is hard to believe that the conservative _ problems, but it is hard to believe that the conservative party - problems, but it is hard to believe that the conservative party en - that the conservative party en masse, — that the conservative party en masse, and _ that the conservative party en masse, and i— that the conservative party en masse, and i think— that the conservative party en masse, and i think rishi - that the conservative party en| masse, and i think rishi sunak that the conservative party en i masse, and i think rishi sunak is the fatt— masse, and i think rishi sunak is the fall guv— masse, and i think rishi sunak is the fall guy for _ masse, and i think rishi sunak is the fall guy for this, _ masse, and i think rishi sunak is the fall guy for this, and - masse, and i think rishi sunak is the fall guy for this, and there i masse, and i think rishi sunak is| the fall guy for this, and there are a tot— the fall guy for this, and there are a tot of— the fall guy for this, and there are a lot of people _ the fall guy for this, and there are a lot of people behind _ the fall guy for this, and there are a lot of people behind him - the fall guy for this, and there are a lot of people behind him who. the fall guy for this, and there are i a lot of people behind him who made this happen, — a lot of people behind him who made this happen. have _ a lot of people behind him who made this happen, have fretted _ a lot of people behind him who made this happen, have fretted that - this happen, have fretted that manritv — this happen, have fretted that majoritv awav _ this happen, have fretted that majority away-— this happen, have fretted that majority away. this happen, have fretted that ma'ori awa . ~ . , . majority away. what you started with vote to leave — majority away. what you started with vote to leave might _ majority away. what you started with vote to leave might have _ majority away. what you started with vote to leave might have ended - majority away. what you started with vote to leave might have ended up i vote to leave might have ended up with the _ vote to leave might have ended up with the conservatives, i don't know — with the conservatives, i don't know. what you think about that? it know. what you think about that? [it is know. what you think about that? is going to know. what you think about that? it is going to be a bizarre leadership contest _ is going to be a bizarre leadership contest this — is going to be a bizarre leadership contest this summer— is going to be a bizarre leadership contest this summer where - is going to be a bizarre leadership contest this summer where we i contest this summer where we potentiatty _ contest this summer where we potentially saw— contest this summer where we potentially saw it _ contest this summer where we potentially saw it tonight. - contest this summer where we i potentially saw it tonight. there were _ potentially saw it tonight. there were conservative _ potentially saw it tonight. there were conservative party - potentially saw it tonight. there were conservative party voters i potentially saw it tonight. there i were conservative party voters who will perhaps — were conservative party voters who will perhaps be _ were conservative party voters who will perhaps be thinking, _ were conservative party voters who will perhaps be thinking, where - were conservative party voters who will perhaps be thinking, where do| were conservative party voters who| will perhaps be thinking, where do i want the _ will perhaps be thinking, where do i want the conservative _ will perhaps be thinking, where do i want the conservative party- will perhaps be thinking, where do i want the conservative party to - will perhaps be thinking, where do i want the conservative party to go? i want the conservative party to go? is in want the conservative party to go? is in the _ want the conservative party to go? is in the penny— want the conservative party to go? is in the penny mordaunt _ want the conservative party to go? is in the penny mordaunt direction| is in the penny mordaunt direction of the _ is in the penny mordaunt direction of the niget— is in the penny mordaunt direction of the nigel farage _ is in the penny mordaunt direction of the nigel farage direction? - is in the penny mordaunt direction of the nigel farage direction? and that could — of the nigel farage direction? and that could be _ of the nigel farage direction? and that could be happening _ of the nigel farage direction? and that could be happening in - of the nigel farage direction? and that could be happening in a - of the nigel farage direction? and. that could be happening in a matter of months — that could be happening in a matter of months. , . ., of months. there is much more i wanted to _ of months. there is much more i wanted to ask _ of months. there is much more i wanted to ask you, _ of months. there is much more i wanted to ask you, loads - of months. there is much more i wanted to ask you, loads of - wanted to ask you, loads of interesting papers, but we have run out of time for them. and that is all from

us for tonight on a big political day. more of them over the weekend. manifestos are coming next week. kirsty�*s here on monday. till then, goodnight. hello this is bbc news. rishi sunak is apologising he made a mistake saying —— leaving the d—day

service early. he recorded a root television interview interview. tonight the rishi sunak has apologised and said he made a mistake by leaving yesterday's d day ceremonies in france early. the prime minister attended a service commemorating british veterans but then returned to london and recorded a television interview. tonight, during the second tv debate of the election campaign, the cabinet minster penny mordaunt said rishi sunak had been 'completely wrong' to leave when he did. our political editor chris mason reports. when this music gets an outing you know polling day is getting close. and within minutes of the night's debate beginning, today's row was centre stage. what happened was completely wrong and the prime minister has rightly apologised for that. thank you to all those that have served in our armed forces and continue to do so, in what is a very insecure world at the moment. a prime minister who puts his own political career before public- service is no prime minister at all. it was not only politically shameful, but i think many others feel quite insulted. we all owe a huge debt to our veterans, those from d—day

and from conflict since. i think it was a complete and utter disgrace and shows us we actually| have a very unpatriotic - prime minister, it was dreadful. i think what we saw from the prime minister was panic and it's the same pre—election panic that gave us that back of a fag packet plan for a new national service. from this evening, to this morning, and rishi sunak arrives at a nursery in swindon. is it a new low point for you, prime minister, apologising to the veterans? i thought i'd turn up too. who is advising you, prime minister? inside, the sandpit and gentle chap with the nippers. gentle chat with the nippers... what is your favourite ice cream flavour? but sharp questions from the reporters. you left early. what were you thinking? over the past two days i've participated in a number of events in portsmouth and france to honour those who risked their lives to defend ourfreedom and our values 80 years ago.

the itinerary for these events was set weeks ago, before the start of the general election campaign, and having participated in all the british events, with british veterans, i returned home before the international leaders event later in the day. on reflection, that was a mistake and i apologise. but i am someone who will always admit when i've made a mistake, that's what you'll always get from me. i have to say, prime minister, you sound more exasperated than apologetic. these men made the ultimate sacrifice and you couldn't even sacrifice a whole afternoon. ken hay, a 98—year—old d—day veteran, told us that you let the country down. is he right? i participated in events both in portsmouth and in france over two days, because this is an incredibly important moment for our country, to commemorate the sacrifice of all of those and their service. leaders on the campaign trail hate having to spend time trying to explain away what happened yesterday. that is precisely what the prime

minister is having to do today. the prime minister did attend plenty of d—day events, but he missed a big gathering of world leaders. look at this — three leaders gather, and who's there for the uk? the bloke who was our prime minister eight years ago, lord cameron. the prime minister's apology is making headlines everywhere, and it's one of those days when my phone never stops ringing and i'm on the radio again. the danger, the potency of a moment like this, is that it has the capacity, and let's see, but it has the capacity to be noticed. by lunchtime we're in gloucestershire for rishi sunak�*s next campaign stop. and when you're having a bad day, nothing seems to go right. just look at the street in stonehouse he was visiting, as his own veterans' minister, himself a veteran, said this. undoubtedly veterans will feel pretty raw over this and i don't dispute that and i totally understand and personally it's a bit crushing, yes. but it is what it is and it's

happened and he has apologised and he has made a mistake and it's not reflective of his wider work on veterans. the labour leader was at the event yesterday that rishi sunak missed and you will not be surprised, he is quite keen to tell you about it. it was really important to me, it was a privilege to be there, and rishi sunak will have to answer for his choice. for me, there was only one choice, which was to be there to pay my respects, to say thank you. this evening the prime minister was in wiltshire, the questions and answers are still flowing. which shows we are on the right track. but the nhs is disintegrating. 2500 gps in this country are currently unemployed due to your policy is. and a fingerjabbing and angry gp wanting to diagnose a piece of her mind. a bumpy old day for rishi sunak that he will be glad he is very nearly over.

chris mason, bbc news. let's speak to our political correspondent, helen catt. let's ta ke let's take a look at the debates had happened earlier what were the main takeaways? happened earlier what were the main takeawa s? , . takeaways? these were wide-ranging debates over — takeaways? these were wide-ranging debates over 90 _ takeaways? these were wide-ranging debates over 90 minutes _ takeaways? these were wide-ranging debates over 90 minutes we - takeaways? these were wide-ranging debates over 90 minutes we had - takeaways? these were wide-ranging i debates over 90 minutes we had seven representatives of the seven biggest parties in great britain. the thing that was immediately obvious as soon as the camera cut to the stage was that the two people who were not on it with the two men who are vying to be prime minister. so some takeaways, there was of course at the speed which which penny mordaunt who was there for the conservatives was challenged over that d—day issue and you saw in the piece there and saying it was completely wrong that the prime minister had apologise. i think was interesting to watch some of the dynamics going on there. angela raynerfor labour of the dynamics going on there. angela rayner for labour and penny mordaunt for the conservatives. for the most part, debating with each other. we saw some quite heated

exchanges there. any more did raising that textbook with the conservatives have been using which has been disputed. angela rayner telling her that was a lie. very much trying to keep it between the two of them rather than throwing any fire at the other parties on the stage. i think was also quite interesting was that we saw some of those other parties like plaid cymru, like the snp, directing their fire, notjust at penny mordaunt and angela rayner but at nigel farage for some the policies of his. 50 a much wider ranging debate then perhaps we may have been thinking we make it. . ~ perhaps we may have been thinking we make it. . ,, , ., perhaps we may have been thinking we make it. . ,, i. ., perhaps we may have been thinking we make it. ., ~' , ., ., ., well a lot was said during the debate this evening. nick eardley and our bbc verify team have been fact checking. there was a lot in there tonight. i like to keep the fact checkers busy.

we have been going through statistics and figures to figure out what is right and what does not. let's start with this. the big claim that has dominated the week. let's just start with that one. you mentioned this big row reigniting over whether labor would put up tax by £2,000. it's a row that's dominated the week several times. penny mordaunt said it again, but we've looked at this a lot in great detail. the figure that penny martin's using is misleading. it's not clear it's over four years and the figures behind it are dubious. like the conservatives, labour's promise not to increase income tax, national insurance or vat during the next parliament. so although the conservatives are keen to keep it going, that row, it thatis keen to keep it going, that row, it that is worth bearing in mind. let's look next at the row over cuts. you heard stephen flynn from the snp say several times that

there were going to be £18 billion of spending cuts after the general election, whether conservatives or labour are in power. let me explain quickly where he got this from. this is based on an analysis from the institute for fiscal studies. they say that because labour and the conservatives are promising not to put key taxes up or to borrow for everyday spending, and because economic growth is weak, spending will be squeezed. this is the plan at the moment that spending would go up in real terms i%, but spending would go up in real terms 1%, but there are protected areas like nhs, defence, schools and childcare, they get most of that money. because it is only 1%, the iss reckon that this will happen in unprotected areas like transport, justice and things like that. —— ifs. overall 18 billion of cuts is what they reckon. so there has been a lot of discussion with chris about defence today. there was a big

debate at the start. two claims we are looking through. defence spending. has it been falling since 2010 as nigel farage claimed. the answer, in real terms, yes. that was the figure when labour were last in power with and this is the figure now, this is a bit lower. secondly, there is a claim from daisy cooper from the lib dems, has the army shrunk under the conservatives? you can see the graph there. it is pretty clear, it has gone down. that is the 2019 election. it has gone up hope he didn't but has gone down from between 70—80,000 there. so that claim was correct. there was so much tonight that we could stand and look at fact checks all night, people do that but there is a lot more of this on the bbc news website in the bbc verify team are, for the next four weeks of the campaign, going to be looking at this and doing as much fact checking of the

big parties as possible. let's take a quick look at some of tomorrow's front pages. starting with the times, leading with the conservative's penny mordaunt, who criticised the prime minister after he returned early from d—day commemorations. the guardian saying the conservatives are 'furious' with rishi sunak after he skipped a key part of the commemorations. the telegraph mentions the pm's pledge to axe stamp duty for first time buyers. and the top of the mirror describes disappointment in rishi sunak skipping a d—day event. the daily mail leads on the news, developments in the search for the missing tv presenter michael mostly seen on cctv on the greek island. more about what we learned from the debates, just a little earlier. letting more detail on bbc news

website. new cctv images have emerged in greece which appear to show the missing tv presenter dr michael mosley less than half an hour after he left a beach to go on a walk. the 67—year—old was on holiday on the island of symi, which is between kos and rhodes. he set off from the beach at st nikolas at lunchtime on wednesday the cctv images show he appears to have made it to the nearby village of pedi. he was staying in gyalos with his wife but failed to arrive there. joe inwood has the latest from the island. this appears to be michael mosley more than 20 minutes after setting off from the beach where he'd been relaxing with his wife. now, the cctv images were taken from a camera here in the village of pedi. crucially, that's at the end of the coastal road, which had been the source of so much concern. and it's led to the local mayor saying they're confident he did make it this far.

translation: we have eliminated the possibility he had _ an accident along the footpath because there are people who saw him with an umbrella and a hat walking through town. but we've lost him from here onwards because there are no more cameras. the initial fear was that something might have happened to him as he passed along this beautiful, rugged but unforgiving coastline in the heat of the midday sun. greek authorities had brought in search and rescue teams from the surrounding islands. this policeman and sniffer dog have come all the way from athens. lee and vicky were at the exact spot where he would have entered the village all day on wednesday. it's a fairly quiet village and then obviously you all turn up and you've got the helicopters flying round, search and rescue everywhere. so, yeah, obviously the moods changed, yeah. since we realised he'd gone missing... it's quite shocking. it's sort of. . .yeah, we've been worried.

i like to cycle around. it beats the traffic... michael mosley is well known to audiences in the uk as a science and medical broadcaster. he's a regular face on the bbc. now i'm about to do something that many years ago _ i swore i would never do. a presenter known for getting stuck in. it's disgusting. the milk i'm going to keep, it's on the banned list... . he would often focus on diet and exercise. so i'm left with a decent. amount of food, including, i'm pleased to say, a bottle of red wine _ one show theme tune. and he's a regular on the one show. last night's programme opened with a message sharing the feelings of many viewers. now as you will have heard on the news, lots of us concerned to hear that our friend michael mosley has gone missing whilst on holiday in greece. the fact that michael mosley appears to have made it at least to this idyllic village is the first positive news in more than two days. but where did he go after that?

we understand the search operation will be opening new areas tomorrow away from the direction of the house he was staying in. it's been a long time coming for taylor swift fans. it's been a long time coming for taylor swift fans but tonight the us superstar played the first uk gig of her eras tour. some fans had been queueing since 5.30 this morning in edinburgh to be the first through the doors of murrayfield stadium. our music correspondent mark savage was at the concert. the gates at murrayfield opened at four o'clock for the biggest stadium show in scottish history. almost 73,000 people all here to see the current queen of pop. before now, no tour in history had made $1 billion at the box office, but the time taylor swift wraps up these concerts in december, she will have made 2 billion in ticket sales alone. fans like these paid an average of £208 a

ticket and they say it is worth every penny. ours were not that expensive, we are at the back. presales were not too bad but the atmosphere, the production, it's notjust her singing, it's the whole experience. there is a lot of connection between fans, mothers and daughters and boyfriends and girlfriends, why do you think that is? through her songs, she really speaks to a lot of people. taylor swift playing the first of 17 gigs on the uk leg of her eras tour. and, there was a nod to scotland during the show. so amazing. the uk tour culminates with eight nights at wembley stadium. beating a record set

by michaeljackson in the 19805. in the words of her own song, taylor swift will never go out of style. mark savage, bbc news. that's it for me. now it is time for newscast. newscast from the bbc. hello, it's adam in the studio. and laura in the studio. and we've just watched 90 minutes of seven top flight frontline politicians and our colleague michelle hussein. we have. do you know what i've learnt, though? what? don't woof down in a giant chicken souvlaki before intensely watching 90 minutes of television. why not? i don't know if it's like just listening really hard can give you indigestion. i think it can. listening specifically to seven politicians orjust listening to something very hard? yeah, if it was an episode of friends. but anyway. right.

so we've just seen the debate actually before we dive into it, we should just explain what the actual format was. so this was known as the seven way? yes. so this was a big important debate in the general election. it was the first one of its kind where notjust the tories and the labour party were represented. so the labour party and the conservatives sent along two of their prominent politicians, but not the leaders. the other parties then had either their westminster leader, like stephen flynn for the scottish national party or their deputy leader, daisy cooper, prominent. but then we had the leader of plaid cymru, we had nigel farage, who of course recently has now miraculously become the leader of reform after a very short and intensely democratic process — not. and then also we had carla denyer, who's the co—leader of the greens, and she's standing for a seat in bristol. and have i got to seven already oram i mis...

no, that was up to seven. i think that was seven.