there is poverty here, racial tension and, among some, a deep distrust of the police. my guest today, the internationally acclaimed director and actor mathieu kassovitz, addressed all of those issues in his ground—breaking film la haine — hate — some three decades ago. he is still an influential figure inside french culture. so is his country still disfigured by hate? mathieu kassovitz, welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. it is three decades since you made la haine — hate.

i'm sure you would love to believe that that film is like a museum piece. like it's no longer relevant. but does it feel that way to you? no. i would love to... ..to think the opposite. i would love to think that each of my movies are relevant forever and will be remembered forever... but i guess what i meant was, wouldn't it be great if some of the issues... were not... yes. ..you had exposed were no longer issues? the problem is that i make political movies. and i did a movie like ten years ago, 15 years ago that's back on the news today because we have a revolt in new caledonia. that's a film called rebellion. rebellion, yeah. so, you know, that's, when you do political movies, either you're totally wrong and you're not relevant or you're right and nobody�*s listening. so, so that's, erm, that's... that was the case with rebellion, that was the case with la haine. but here we sit talking in

paris. you live in paris. does it feel like paris still has a profound problem with, for example, police brutality? because at the time, you said something pretty extraordinary. you said this movie is clearly against the cops. are you still against the cops? no. uh... ..the movie is against the cops. i'm not against the cops. the movie is against police brutality. and the problem with police brutality is why we say "the cops" is that police brutality happens because police don't police themselves. the movie is, of course, about obviously much more than just police violence and brutality — it's about inequality, poverty- - -_ ..racial tensions. and that word that you chose

to label the movie — hate — is a word that people are using a lot in france today to talk about a country that is filled with anger and, yes, hate. do you feel that? are you trying to make me say that france is filled with hate? i'm asking you... i don't think so. ..whether that word seems relevant to you. no, no, i—i don't think the... i don't think the word is relevant in france. i think the word is relevant as a title for the movie. but the movie is about love, the movie is about respect. and that's what, honestly, that's what we are about. we're not, we're not a hateful country. we're not like that. we're fighters — that's a big part of it. but there's. . .there�*s good in it. i'm very conscious that we're talking to each other at a time of pretty amazing political turmoil in france. yeah. you know, you had the euro elections, _ then you had macron make this extraordinary decision to call national assembly elections. there's turmoil in different political parties. do you feel a sort of desire to open your mouth,

to use your platform right now in a political sense? no, less. less than before. because when i was young, when you're 20, 30 years old, you revolt against things that seems unfair to you, you know? after a while you start not to settle, but you start to understand the process, and what's going on right now in france has been there forever. we've been doing that forever. like, 30 years ago we had an election between jacques chirac and jean—marie le pen. it's nothing new to us. we're always in, you know, that dance in between, between dark and light, in between good and evil. and there's nothing... i'm not shocked by what's going on, and i don't think it will change what we are.

it won't change us. i'm just| thinking about comparisons with the united states of america, where there is also deep political polarisation, and you have big hollywood actor, celebrities like robert de niro, who wade into the debate and rail against donald trump. would that work in france? if we had something as marked as what they go through. because america is so binary, you know — it's like there is good and bad and they act like that. we're way more subtle. i don't think i can go — me as a person, as a public figure — i can go against anybody politically, especially to... ..to support another one. i think they're all the same. do ou? , ., despite macron�*s message to the nation just the other night where he said, essentially, i am giving you, the french people, a choice. yeah. and he characterised it as

a choice between extremism and chaos on one side and his defence of republican values on the other side. you're saying you don't believe that? no, he's doing politics. they're all doing politics. that's their jobs. they wake up in the morning, that's what they have to do. we don't have problems in the streets. if you go out in the streets, you will not see any problems. you will not see fights. you will not see people insulting each other. it's not us. and i don't understand what i see on the tv. i don't understand what i hear from these political people. i'm interested in your relationship with france. would it be fair to say that you've had a complicated relationship with your own country? and there have been times... no. i'm french. it's a very natural relationship with my country as a french person, to be conflicted with my own country, because that's what we are. you kind of left it for a time. i mean, you mentioned that film | rebellion. . .— ..which you made, and it didn't do very well in france. no, it's not that i... i tried something else and i went to america. and i discovered that i was not

so bad in france. it was not so bad. did you miss it? i missed it terribly. i missed the french connection with people, like you have in england. if you go to america, you wouldn't have that euro feeling that we can bump into each other without creating a drama or that even we need to bump into each other because that's how we are. that's what we are. in america, you don't do that. you cannot do that. people hug you. we don't hug each other when we see... we shake hands. they hug. i don't hug people i never met. that's what they are. and yet, in terms of the art and the creativity in your life, you did... for a time, you were very frustrated with france because you felt france was snobby about american movies. yeah. just take one example - you love spielberg movies... yeah. . ., that the greats like jean—luc godard

were slagging spielberg off. yeah. . . , ., ., and you said — at one point — you said that you felt constrained by being french and... artistically, yes. "quote. _ "it doesn't interest me to be successful in france," you said. "what i want to do "is make films that are successful in the us �*and then become successful in france-"— because the thing is that we have a problem in france is that we speak french. so when we make movies, they are limited to our, you know, to our audience, to our french—speaking audience in the world. so that's a problem. but also we have... ..an artistic problem in france. it's gone now. it's gone. for the past 15, ten years, it's changed a lot. well, i wanted to ask you about change because it seems to me something really important has changed. and maybe one symbol of that is the bureau, this amazing series you were the star of, which was a french—made thriller series about france's intelligence agency, and it did hugely well across international markets, including the united states. so something has changed. it was all, of course, in french...

yeah. no, no, no, no, it's not... i have two lives, i have three lives — i have my family life, i have my actor's life and i have my director's life. my artistic life is as a director. as an actor, i'm, you know, hire me. you know, just give me a cheque, give me a line... you once said that comes easy, it's hardly a properjob. it's the easiest job in the world, 0k? it's very well paid. it's not really... it's not really challenging unless you are working on very specific roles in very specific movies, and that happens very rarely. so it's a very comfortable job. as a director, i have a problem with french movies because they are not, i don't think they are creative enough. now, they are, they are becoming... there is an all—new brand of new, young director, male and female, that are doing some really crazy movies now. but we enjoyed the fact that godard took

over and that french, you know, nouvelle vague, uh, but we slept on it. so what do you think the makers of the bureau — and one could also say spiral or call my agent — what did they understand about making french material that had a bigger appeal, a wider international appeal? we have a... we have platforms now, so it's different. now all of a sudden because of cgi, because now you can have an amazing, you know, car chase in cgi with the same price of, you know, what they do everywhere. so it levels a little bit the... ..competitiveness of what makes a movie sexy. and now we have access to that and we have new, you know, 35—year—old young directors who are coming with a different kind of background and they don't care about... they've been fed

with american movies, with international movies. they are a generation of the platform. i want to drill down into one particular challenge facing the french film industry right now, and that arises out of allegations which have come to the fore in recent months, going back a few years, of abuse, sexual abuse practised by powerful men against vulnerable women, and, in some cases, girls. what are you making of what is happening right now in your business? i'm, first of all, i'm shocked because i've... it's not what i do. and i never thought that people could do things like that. i heard things, but it's been there forever, you know, it's been part of the, uh, since the �*50s. since the �*30s. you know, sexual scandals in a

movie industry is nothing new. but if it's nothing new, why were you shocked, in a way? i'm shocked because i didn't know that these people could do things like that. i—i didn't expect... me, as a director, i'm so careful not to... i'm not even talking about girls. i'm talking about actors — not to play with their head too much. when i was an assistant, i saw directors torture actors. torture them. uh, i saw actors having to get drunk just to get through a scene and going home crying. and there was not... they were not female or male. there was just actors being abused by powerful directors. that's abusive behaviour, what we're learning about. and of course, the testimony ofjudith godreche is crucial to this. she has made allegations against two very well—known french film directors, benoitjacquot and jacques doyon. now, they're very serious allegations. yeah.

they... the two men involved have absolutely denied them. but there is now... ..a national debate about what this means. and, also, it's reached politics. i mean, the national assembly has set up a commission of inquiry which is suspended because of the election, but, nonetheless, probably will be picked up again. it's very damaging, isn't it? i think it happens in every field of work, that kind of abuse. i think it happens more in the cinema, in the movie industry, because people have a lot of powers and there's a lot of young, and, you know, pretty girls, uh, i'm... you know, it's so far off what i do. it's... you say that, but you also have been very candid. you have said that, in the past, "as i think about it, i acted like a jerk, an idiot." yeah! we all did. so what did you mean by that?

because, you know, you act like a jerk because you're not... did you take advantage of women? no. never. never! never. me? no, no. about what? ofa girl? no. never. never. are you crazy? well, ijust wondered, when you said, you know, "you have to think about it. "and, yes, i did act like a jerk and an idiot." no, no, it's acting like a jerk when you, uh... you know, more in a relationship with a woman. sometimes you, when you're young, you say things, you do things that you don't understand. and if that woman doesn't tell you "this is not... you can't do that!" then you don't learn. i was lucky enough to have women to say, "hey, what the...? what is this?" "oh. i'm sorry." that's how you learn. but you cannot learn as a young man without being slapped in the face. that's what i'm telling all these women. "slap them in the face. "we'll back you up."

another star who has been in the spotlight faces serious charges again, has issued flat—out denials of wrongdoing, is gerard depardieu. yeah. now, that's caused a debate in france because the president, no less, emmanuel macron, waded into this and he said that there was a quote, unquote, "manhunt that was targeting depardieu." and macron said, "look, he's an immense actor, "a genius of his art. "and i say, as a president and as a citizen, "he still makes france proud." yes, he does. he's an amazing person. you know, he's coming from an era, where, you know, he made movies about, about... you know, les valseuses is a crazy movie and that's what they all... they were raised on that. and we did things. they did things that is not acceptable any more today. but what can we do? can you cancel the past? no. you have to live with the past. not hiring depardieu again because you think he's a pig, that's your prerogative.

putting it, putting him, you know, on the cover of all the magazines in france saying that he's a rapist when apparently he's not, because it was not proved. and it was... i have a friend who lost everything. luc besson lost everything. from a woman who said something that was fake. he lost everything. he almost lost his family. he lost his studio. he lost movies. he lost his friends. he lost money. so you, do you think... you saw kevin spacey yesterday. ..the fallout from, call it the metoo movement has now gone too far? are you suggesting... no, i think that... ..people like you are now at risk of false allegations? i'm... we're all at risk of false allegation. you are also. we all are. but the thing is, i don't think it went too far. i think that... i think it was... and i think it is very important

that it happened, that it exists, because even for somebody like me, i didn't know. so now i know and everybody else knows. so it's very important that it exists. and do you think the industry has now fundamentally changed? i have no idea. honestly, i'll tell you in a yearfrom now if we see another case and that somebody who didn't learn. but i don't... i hope people will change. yes, i hope they will. i hope. one other issue i wanted to just quickly address with you is drugs, and, in particular, your advocacy recently of the legalisation of cannabis. yeah. not advocacy. i'm raising a lantern because we're not talking about it in france, even though we are one of the most, uh, smokeable country in the world.

and, uh, it's not... are you one of them? it's not legal. yeah, ismoke, yeah, of course. and you say you're not an advocate of legalisation, but i'm guessing, if you're one of them, and you think it's so pervasive, you've concluded, what? that the only sensible thing to do is at least debate, if not push on quickly with legalisation? we went all over the world to see all the countries that legalised to see if, is there any problem? what happened since they, since they legalised? uh, and is there a good model for us as french, if we ever want to legalise, what can we follow? so i'm not... you've, of- course, got kids of your own. does it not worry you that the idea of legalising one currently illegal substance could be a gateway to other substances becoming more pervasive? yes. i was very worried about that. but then we made our studies and we saw that not, it's not the fact. the real fact is that when you go

and buy some weed in the street from a dealer that you don't know, he will probably offer you something else. but the people who smoke weed, that's all they want to do. they smoke weed, they don't want to drink alcohol. they don't want to take, uh, cocaine oranything. they just want to smoke weed. but i have kids. they will do whatever they want. i don't want them to have access to easy drug that is not controlled and to give money to people they don't know to do they don't know what with it. yeah. you had a catastrophic accident last year on your motorbike. you fell off your bike? yeah. you almost lost your leg. yeah. how are you now? i'm good, i'm good, i'm good. after the accident, you said, "i'm 56 years old. "perhaps it's time i stop being an idiot "and realise that there are people out there who love me." is this a different mathieu kassovitz? a tamer, a tamer version? it was like that for ten minutes. then i realised that i can just have fun. no, the problem is that i cannot... i have a big problem and that's

why i make these movies, is that i cannot be happy. because i have too much empathy for people that are in pain. and it ruins my life. so, um, when something bad happens to me and i see that things, people are gathering around me. and ifelt good. but that doesn't stop my inner revolt against, uh, the injustice that i see. it's a pretty profound thing to say. you struggle to be happy because you're so... i think you, in the recent past, you took in a bunch of homeless people into your home. yeah. maybe up to three, you had in the house all at one time... and a dog. which is a pretty extraordinary... _ are you still doing that? no. no, no, i can't do that any more. it took a... i did that for ten years, and, uh, it took a... uh, it took a toll because you cannot help people halfway. you know, if you take somebody out of the street, you cannot put it back in the street. you have to find solutions.

and sometimes you have to find solutions against people that are so disconnected. that you're fighting for them more than they're fighting for themselves. so it's the only way you can help people is by being rich yourself or sacrificing yourself for the others, which is the most beautiful thing. but if you can bring wealth to others by sharing your own, that's the way to do it, i think. or what about making movies? is that, in any way, in your mind, a way to do good? i don't think it's relevant any more. i thought it was. i don't think it's relevant any more because tiktok can teach you anything about any subject in one minute. so movies as an agent of social change... you don't need it any more. you've moved on from that. yeah, yeah. really? i haven't moved on from that because my next movie is a world war ii movie with animals, and we're explaining the war

through the eyes of animals. so i'm still into this, into it. but this movie is so universal about politics and about human... about what we are as humans, that i think it will be my last one. i don't think it's relevant to make political movies any more. this could be your last movie. uh, yeah, i hope so. yeah. yeah, i would love to. yeah. but you say you hope so. there are going to be many people around the world watching and listening to this who hope it's absolutely not. yeah, guys. i'm sorry. i have a life. i love science and i don't think movies are relevant any more. i don't think so. i don't think... i think cinema is dying and it's not going to be there for long. the theatres won't be there for long. so, so cinema, as going to the cinema will disappear. you know, i mean, for a guy who's given his, most of his working life... my father's life. and your father's life, to the movie—making business — what a depressing way to end!

yeah, it is depressing, but i think there's more, way more important things in the world right now that, than movies. and when you look at what's going on with al, i have a friend who's working on superman. he's a two—year... it's a, you know, two—year period movie. uh, and i tell him, you know, "in two years, when you're going to finish this, "and ai will be able to make the same movie in 20 minutes." so we're losing. we're losing the fight of creativity against our own creation. the last tool that we create was ai, and that ai will create way better than what we can for the future. we did everything we could do with a pencil, with a pen, with a, you know, sculpting, singing, filming. we did everything. that's quite an ending. mathieu kassovitz, thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you very much for having me. it's been a real pleasure, mathiem—

hello there. let's take a brief look at the weather for the week ahead. well, it's been warm and humid today right across the uk with temperatures well above the seasonal average for many. it will be feeling fresher to the seasonal average, by then, sunshine and showers and forecasts and the sunshine is still strong, still warm at this time of year. some of the best of the sunshine on monday was across eastern areas of scotland and high temperatures here, too, but already, we have seen the warmest day of the week with scotland and northern ireland. it will turning qualified on tuesday with a chillier feeling air out north and the west gradually sinking

for the south and eastwards so still wild, still humid across much of the southern half of the uk. general murk out towards the western coast, lifting and clearing. cloudier conditions cooler for northern ireland and for scotland. some showers for eastern scotland, stretching down to northern england. the rest of england and wales we'll keep the sunshine and temperatures. it could get close to 30 degrees celsius. a sea breeze towards the coast will give some refreshment. 0n will give some refreshment. on wednesday, we're tracking this area of low pressure that bring about the change later on in the week, but more cloudy skies for many northern and eastern areas of the uk, probably a bright day but feeling cooler for northern ireland and western scotland. again, it's warm and humid, a lot of strong sunshine across the south and the east. it's here again where we could see temperatures get perhaps a little past 30

degrees celsius for some, otherwise the mid—to—high 20s. this area of low pressure will send the cold front sweeping eastwards. we're going to see some cloud, possibly some outbreaks of rain on this, some showers and rather windy areas across in western aisles and parts of northern ireland. it's still warm and probably still some sunshine ahead of that cloud across parts of east anglia, temperatures up to 36 celsius, a lot coolerfurther west. we're all coming into that fresher feeling air by the time we get to friday. probably still quite a warm night across parts of east angury —— anglia. some cloud and showers, also some sunny spells and the sunshine will help to lift the temperature. generally 14 to 23 degrees celsius north to south. it's more of the same as we head towards the weekend. high pressure starts to build in. a few showers around, some areas

of cloud, but a lot of sunshine too. and the sunshine of course will help to lift the temperature where it does appear. so, temperatures again probably the high teens, the low 20s, and much closer to where we would expect them to bed at this time of year —— be at this time of year. it's the same on sunday. a ridge of high pressure not too far away, and that will build in towards the south as we head through the course of the following week. so always the chance of a lot of dry weather, low pressure out towards the north and west, some wet weather at times here. some showers, possibly some longer spells of rain. here's the long—term outlook for our capital cities. the heat wave ends and temperatures will be much closer to the average. some sunny spells at times. bye—bye.

live from london. this is bbc news. wikileaks founderjulian assange is freed on bail from a british prison, after reaching a plea deal against his extradition to the us. in washington, us secretary of state antony blinken tells israel's defence minister the us wants to avoid the gaza war escalating further into lebanon. a former fujitsu engineer is to face questioning at the post office inquiry later about his role designing the faulty horizon it system.

and, china's pioneering chang'e—6 lunar probe is to touchdown on earth injust over an hour, carrying the first soil and rock samples ever gathered from the far side of the moon. hello. warm welcome to the programme. we start this hour with the news that the wikileaks founderjulian assange has left the uk after being released on bailfrom prison after accepting a plea deal with us prosecutors. it follows a near six—year legal battle. court documents show that mr assange has agreed to plead guilty to one charge of conspiracy to obtain and disclose national defence information. 0vernight, wikileaks posted this video on x, showing mr assange after

he left belmarsh prison in london on monday.