with a recent new york times—siena poll putting trump just four points ahead of biden among likely voters in the us. here in georgia, the candidates have a tough history, asjoe biden narrowly beat donald trump by about 12,000 votes in 2020 — that's less than a quarter of a percent of the roughly five million ballots cast. currently, donald trump has a five—point lead over biden, as georgians�* pick for president in the latest atlanta journal—constitution poll. this evening also marks a return to the debate stage for both men after nearly four years. trump notably declined to participate in the republican primary debates this cycle. donald trump and biden traded barbs twice during the 2020 presidential election, including this testy exchange. i'm not going to answer the question. why wouldn't you answer that question? you want to put a lot of new supreme court justices. radical left. will you shut up, man? listen, who is on your list, joe? who's on your list?

gentlemen, ithinkl we've ended this... this is so un—presidential. you're not going to give a list. we've ended this segment. we are going to move i on to another segment. that was really a productive segment, wasn't it? it's unclear if the candidates will be able to have an exchange like that tonight due to the rules. tonight's debate will be a break from tradition in the us, as it will be hosted and simulcast by cnn to other outlets like the bbc. it's the first time in more than three decades that a presidential election debate will be sponsored by an individual news organisation, rather than the non—partisan commission on presidential debates, due to disagreements between the commission and both campaigns.

and when the light turns solid red, their time is up. once this happens, the candidate's microphone will be muted and the other candidate's microphone will be turned on. biden and trump will have two minutes to respond to questions and one minute for responses and rebuttals. for the first time since john f kennedy debated richard nixon in 1960, there will be no audience in attendance. there will be no opening statements, but there will be closing ones,

with trump getting the last word of the debate, determined by that coin toss, as mentioned earlier. mr biden and mr trump last debated in 2020. since then, the world has seen significant conflicts emerge and alliances change. in the spotlight tonight could be the war in ukraine, israel's war in gaza, and the us's worsening relations with china. joining me live is our senior north america correspondent, gary 0'donoghue. to talk about all that lies ahead tonight. the stakes are really quite high, this is a significant moment this year. it is absolutely huge. these men are basically neck and neck in this race. we know that, the polls have not shifted for an awful long time so the stakes are incredibly high for both tonight. that's why we are seeing this debate so early because both of them want to move the needle, they don't

want to wait until after labour day in september, they don't want to leave it too late. they want to leave it too late. they want to leave it too late. they want to build up some kind of gap, some kind of difference in the minds of voters. this is the minds of voters. this is the kind of event that will have tens of millions of people tuning in. so the opportunities are huge, but the risks are also huge and that's why the pressure has been on these two for the last few weeks with the various forms of debate prep because they know an awful lot rides on tonight. find because they know an awful lot rides on tonight.— rides on tonight. and tort was a little bit _ rides on tonight. and tort was a little bit about _ rides on tonight. and tort was a little bit about that - rides on tonight. and tort was a little bit about that debate l a little bit about that debate prep. traditionally, candidates prepared for debates, but this year, the differences between both have become campaign talking points.— talking points. there is a lot of smoke — talking points. there is a lot of smoke and _ talking points. there is a lot of smoke and mirrors - talking points. there is a lot of smoke and mirrors over. of smoke and mirrors over debate prep, you are managing expectations, building up the other guy and knocking down the other guy and knocking down the other guy, building up your own quy' other guy, building up your own guy, knocking him down, trying to manage expectations. we have had a loss from the biden cam about him being out of camp david for the last week or so with various people playing donald trump and going through

the scenarios and talking to him about these complicated, ridiculously in some ways, rules to follow tonight that will change the dynamics of this kind of debate and know and has experience of that. even those veterans who have been through these debates have not had this kind of experience. donald trump on the one hand talking a few days ago that he thoughtjoe biden might be drugged up and we have heard this before from him, now suggesting he might be a better debater than before. so a mixed message on what they expect from biden. for both men tonight, there are different things they need to achieve. joe biden needs to dispel the idea he's too old to run for president, he is infirm and not really with it. donald trump for his part has to kind of raining those grievances, those things he bangs on about which we know the voters don't like hearing about from him and in sound a bit like a former president, future president —— to rein in. different challenges, but they are after

the same people in terms of the votes. ., ., , ., votes. for voters tuning in and it is still a _ votes. for voters tuning in and it is still a long _ votes. for voters tuning in and it is still a long way _ votes. for voters tuning in and it is still a long way from - it is still a long way from november and anything can happen between now and then, but are they looking more at the style and the character and the style and the character and the personality or the substance of the policies that will be discussed? i substance of the policies that will be discussed?— will be discussed? i think olitics will be discussed? i think politics is _ will be discussed? i think politics is always - will be discussed? i think politics is always both - politics is always both committed his party, it is personality, what are you going to do in the future? both things matter —— it is always both, it is party. voters make their minds up on today like their minds up on today like the guy or not? do they like what he's going to do all is he not being honest? these all matter. but there will be key messages particularly from donald trump who will focus on things like the economy and inflation. an issue that has really hurt americans in terms of cost of living over the last few years. he will focus on things like crime and focus of course on the border and the 3,500 people crossing the southern border every day. joe biden will focus on what he

calls democracy and donald trump is a threat to democracy. focusing on january trump is a threat to democracy. focusing onjanuary 6th and donald trump's part in that, the fact he is perhaps a convicted felon now which is a big thing in some swing states and swing voters don't like that very much. and also i want to that very much. and also get your first gut reaction i want to get your first gut

reaction and what you are looking forward to tonight, what you expect to see. stephanie. well, as you know, decided to move the debate this early and have the rules set was the biden campaign's idea and i think in large part it is because they want to remind the american people of whom donald trump is. and over the last few years, they haven't seen a tonne of donald trump committee he has mostly been on platforms like truth media —— donald trump and he has mostly. speaking to his base. he has been at rallies and not in front of the american people. this is an effort to put him in front of the american people and make a case regarding his character. people —— polling showed people were starting to remember those years a bit too fondly between the time he was last in office and where we are today and i think the biden campaign is really trying to remind the american people of exactly who donald trump is. so

expect president biden to try to dispel the myth he is not up to dispel the myth he is not up to the job because of his age. and to provoke trump to behave in ways that expose his character.— in ways that expose his character. ., , ., ., character. rodney, what are you exectin: character. rodney, what are you expecting to _ character. rodney, what are you expecting to see, _ character. rodney, what are you expecting to see, are _ character. rodney, what are you expecting to see, are you - expecting to see, are you excited about what is to come? 0h, absolutely. i mean, like stephanie and many of your viewers, _ stephanie and many of your viewers, i_ stephanie and many of your viewers, i have a political judgment. this is like superbowl politics and this is the first— superbowl politics and this is the first one of a feud that is going — the first one of a feud that is going to _ the first one of a feud that is going to happen this election cycle — going to happen this election cycle. stephanie is right that joe biden has got to do what he did in— joe biden has got to do what he did in 2020. that is instigate donald — did in 2020. that is instigate donald trump into showing anger, _ donald trump into showing anger, showing bad behaviour. i saw him — anger, showing bad behaviour. i saw him in— anger, showing bad behaviour. i saw him in 2020 empoli numbers after— saw him in 2020 empoli numbers after the — saw him in 2020 empoli numbers after the september debate and donald — after the september debate and donald trump's numbers precipitously dropped after that— precipitously dropped after that one debate. and frankly, i

blame — that one debate. and frankly, i blame that debate performance for him — blame that debate performance for him losing very close races in states— for him losing very close races in states that matter when it came — in states that matter when it came to _ in states that matter when it came to the electoral count. joe biden also needs to target abortion, an issue that can drive — abortion, an issue that can drive an— abortion, an issue that can drive an edge —— a wedge between _ drive an edge —— a wedge between young voters and donald trumn _ between young voters and donald trumn i— between young voters and donald trump. i imagine donald trump is picking — trump. i imagine donald trump is picking up more young voters than _ is picking up more young voters than democrats expected. donald trump _ than democrats expected. donald trump has a great opportunity. if trump has a great opportunity. if he _ trump has a great opportunity. if he stays _ trump has a great opportunity. if he stays disciplined and remains _ if he stays disciplined and remains the american people the economy— remains the american people the economy he brought them between 2017 and _ economy he brought them between 2017 and 2020 and reminds them the biden— 2017 and 2020 and reminds them the biden administration has failed — the biden administration has failed miserably on addressing the broader rise and the immigration crisis and if he remains _ immigration crisis and if he remains the american people that we — remains the american people that we have a criminal crisis in city— that we have a criminal crisis in city run _ that we have a criminal crisis in city run by liberals that sunport_ in city run by liberals that supportjoe biden, donald trump can come — supportjoe biden, donald trump can come out of this the effect -- come — can come out of this the effect —— come out of this the victor —— addressing the border crisis _ -- addressing the border crisis. ., . ., crisis. how much weight to voters put _ crisis. how much weight to voters put on _ crisis. how much weight to voters put on a _ crisis. how much weight to voters put on a debate - crisis. how much weight to voters put on a debate like

this? it is a massive television debate as well as between the candidates. stephanie. debates were always very nerve—racking because they seldom were opportunities to win big, they were often opportunities to have mistakes happen. so on my campaign, we always wanted our debates to be the most boring possible so there were not things that were clickable and that could be replayed and used by the other side on social media. and i am certain that will be the case in this. both campaigns will be watching this debate, looking for moments to clip and repost on social media in the days after this debate, to reinforce the narratives that hurt their opponent. especially narratives that are believable. so if you see biden stumble or display anything that makes him seem like he is not up to the job, expect the republican campaign to amplify that. if you see

donald trump do or say anything that makes him seem may be a little out of control or a little out of control or a little chaotic, expect the democratic campaigns to that and press those things. rodney, used to be _ and press those things. rodney, used to be the _ and press those things. rodney, used to be the case _ and press those things. rodney, used to be the case people - used to be the case people wanted viral moments to get attention for themselves, but it is true what stephanie is saying. it is the fear of the viral moments given so much of this year's campaign is being fought out on social media channels. fought out on social media channels-— fought out on social media channels. , . ., channels. very much so and stephanie — channels. very much so and stephanie is _ channels. very much so and stephanie is right. - channels. very much so and stephanie is right. debates| stephanie is right. debates have — stephanie is right. debates have changed. when i first ran for congress in the 2012 election cycle, i loved getting up election cycle, i loved getting up on — election cycle, i loved getting up on stage for an hour and an hour— up on stage for an hour and an hourand— up on stage for an hour and an hour and a _ up on stage for an hour and an hourand a half up on stage for an hour and an hour and a half and laying out my vision— hour and a half and laying out my vision versus my opponent's vision — my vision versus my opponent's vision but— my vision versus my opponent's vision. but because of the nuclear— vision. but because of the nuclear station of social media and those _ nuclear station of social media and those viral moments as stephanie talks about, the debate _ stephanie talks about, the debate stage has become more defensive. and at a presidential level, it is even more — presidential level, it is even more defensive. and both sides are going — more defensive. and both sides are going to put out their fat

checks _ are going to put out their fat checks. both sides are going to put checks. both sides are going to out out — checks. both sides are going to put out those moments where they— put out those moments where they believe their candidate will be _ they believe their candidate will be able to take advantage of a misstep by the opponent or a misspoke and thought, for example. and frankly, i think the american people expect these — the american people expect these two candidates to say something stupid. and as soon as they— something stupid. and as soon as they do, it is going to come from _ as they do, it is going to come from one — as they do, it is going to come from one side or the other to try and — from one side or the other to try and use it to a political advantage. unlike a lot of the debates— advantage. unlike a lot of the debates we had as candidates for congress, this debate could be the — for congress, this debate could be the difference in a race that— be the difference in a race that every american expects to be very— that every american expects to be very close in the states that — be very close in the states that matter. wisconsin, pennsylvania and in georgia and minnesota and others. this could — minnesota and others. this could matter and that's why they— could matter and that's why they have to be very careful. and — they have to be very careful. and we — they have to be very careful. and we will talk about all of that as the night progresses. stay with me, stephanie and rodney. we are in the spin room here, which will be filled with

campaign supporters of each candidate after the debate who will say how their guy has been the winner and why they are the best person to be president. i spoke to one of those earlier he was director of strategic communications for donald trump in the 2020 presidential campaign and was also press secretary for mike pence when he was vice—president. let's listen to what he had to say. thanks forjoining us on bbc news. we are minutes away from the debate now. you have been in situations like this before with the former president acra won, what is he going to be thinking of what goes through his mind at this point? he’s his mind at this point? he's anxious to _ his mind at this point? he's anxious to get _ his mind at this point? he's anxious to get out - his mind at this point? he's anxious to get out and - his mind at this point? he's anxious to get out and get l anxious to get out and get these things started. he does so many of these things whether it is interviews with media outlets, rallies to tens of thousands of people and he just likes to get out there and get going. the less minutes, he will make sure his tie is straight and he will have talking points down and his message he wants to communicate and then it is kind of like generally in these kinds of situations, may be with the

exception of really close family and friends, everyone else and the aids and the other people leave the room and give him a minute and let's go. == him a minute and let's go. -- his political— him a minute and let's go. —— his political aides. but there is a difference between this and raleigh, it is a controlled environment and he will have to be on message, two minutes and the microphone closes. that will be a _ the microphone closes. that will be a challenge - the microphone closes. that will be a challenge for- the microphone closes. trust will be a challenge for both candidates. he is used to doing that, all the time he spent doing interviews in the 0val doing interviews in the oval office or the rose garden. those are not raleigh scenes, people shouting questions and a rapid response. i don't think he has lost that touch. and he is a tv guy. so he has that internal clock that he will know where he is and when the yellow light goes on to say he has 15 seconds, he will be able to wrap it up. has 15 seconds, he will be able to wrap it up-— to wrap it up. how how are the stakes tonight? _ to wrap it up. how how are the stakes tonight? i _ to wrap it up. how how are the stakes tonight? i think - stakes tonight? i think immensely _ stakes tonight? i think immensely high - stakes tonight? i think immensely high for . stakes tonight? i think| immensely high forjoe stakes tonight? i think - immensely high forjoe biden. the fundamentals right now

favour of donald trump including the new york times poll and another showing donald trump leading by four points nationally which is a meaningless metric, but we all like to talk about it and leading in all the swing states. he doesn't need to win all of them, just a couple and this thing is over. when you look at the actual policy whether it is inflation, immigration, what is going on around the world and especially with the conflicts in the middle east and europe, those things played 21's favour so he just has to remind people things were more affordable, the border was secure just play it to donald trump's favour. joe biden has to make the case where he can change it when he has not so far. we where he can change it when he has not so far.— has not so far. we have seen the campaign _ has not so far. we have seen the campaign ads _ has not so far. we have seen the campaign ads from - has not so far. we have seen the campaign ads from both| the campaign ads from both sides take quite a dark and negative turn and get quite personal in their criticism, we see that tonight? i personal in their criticism, we see that tonight?— see that tonight? i am not really sure. _ see that tonight? i am not really sure. because - see that tonight? i am not really sure. because there see that tonight? i am not i really sure. because there is see that tonight? i am not - really sure. because there is a limited chance for them to interact directly with each other, it may not. i'm sure there will be subtle jabs and singers and there are in all

presidential debates. ultimately, the most important people will not be president biden, it will be the 100 plus million people watching at home. they are the ones struggling who don't like the results thatjoe biden has let our country down and if he focuses on those people, that is when he wins. share focuses on those people, that is when he wins.— focuses on those people, that is when he wins. are they going to be weak _ is when he wins. are they going to be weak points _ is when he wins. are they going to be weak points for _ is when he wins. are they going to be weak points for donald i to be weak points for donald trump? to be weak points for donald trum? , ., , , to be weak points for donald trum? , ., _ ., ., trump? obviously, you have to deal with january _ trump? obviously, you have to deal with january 6th _ trump? obviously, you have to deal with january 6th and - trump? obviously, you have to deal with january 6th and the i deal with january 6th and the abortion question, although i think the abortion question can play into donald trump's favour because this is the way democracy works. the american people now get to have their elected representatives making these decisions rather than unelected lifetime judges. these decisions rather than unelected lifetimejudges. so unelected lifetime judges. so if unelected lifetimejudges. so if they don't like it, they can either vote for a different change in a referendum, they can vote for different lawmakers, but their voice can be heard as opposed your voice being locked out of the process because a judge to get away from you. because a 'udge to get away from you._ because a 'udge to get away from ou. ., ,, from you. many voters perhaps would like _ from you. many voters perhaps would like to _ from you. many voters perhaps would like to hear— from you. many voters perhaps would like to hear from - from you. many voters perhaps would like to hear from a - would like to hear from a position on that coming from a presidential candidate which we

have not heard from donald trump what his firm position on abortion is. i trump what his firm position on abortion is-_ abortion is. i think he has made it— abortion is. i think he has made it very _ abortion is. i think he has made it very clear - abortion is. i think he has made it very clear he - abortion is. i think he has - made it very clear he supports the exceptions for rape, incest, life of the other, but he wants the voices of the americans to be heard. in california, you will get abortion tourism and other states will have different limits. he said he thought six weeks is too far in the state of florida. but we can argue about the number of weeks but in reality, neither side, the right or the left, will ever get something to congress and know when we'll get 60 votes and no—one can agree what the right number of weeks is. —— ann no—one will get. right number of weeks is. -- ann no-one will get.- ann no-one will get. you mentioned _ ann no-one will get. you mentioned abortion - ann no-one will get. you mentioned abortion and l ann no—one will get. you mentioned abortion and january 6th, the other weak point is he is a convicted felon as of today. i know he may look for an appeal, but he is a convicted criminal. how does he convince americans that still makes him good enough to be president? we makes him good enough to be president?— makes him good enough to be president? ~ . ., ,, ., president? we are talking about a paperwork _ president? we are talking about a paperwork issue _ president? we are talking about a paperwork issue and _ president? we are talking about a paperwork issue and a - president? we are talking about a paperwork issue and a crime l a paperwork issue and a crime that has never been charged before. they had to try to attach it to a federal crime that was not a crime. the

federal government investigated that and said, that is not actually a crime. it is a pretty weak case and that's why you saw the american people contribute record amounts of money to donald trump after that verdict. we have also seen his poll numbers increase after that verdict. a lot of people are shaking their heads and going, no, we don't seek judicial action against our political opponents. let's take care of this at the ballot box. when everything is done and dusted tonight at the debate in the spin room, what is next for donald trump? he the spin room, what is next for donald trump?— donald trump? he hits the campaign _ donald trump? he hits the campaign trail, _ donald trump? he hits the campaign trail, he - donald trump? he hits the campaign trail, he is - donald trump? he hits the l campaign trail, he is heading up campaign trail, he is heading up to virginia which is now suddenly in play. the map is growing right now and that is a good thing for donald trump. he will be up there tomorrow and then he will continue out on then he will continue out on the campaign trailand then he will continue out on the campaign trail and name his vice—president. and we will have 18 days and we are doing this in milwaukee. film; have 18 days and we are doing this in milwaukee. any insights as to who the _ this in milwaukee. any insights as to who the vice-president i as to who the vice—president might be? as to who the vice-president might be?— as to who the vice-president might be? no, not really, the one thing _ might be? no, not really, the one thing is— might be? no, not really, the one thing is always _ might be? no, not really, the one thing is always true - might be? no, not really, the one thing is always true of. one thing is always true of both parties. whatever candidate can bring something to the presidential campaign

that the campaign wants or wants more of. because nobody votes for the vice—president. and what you think that is in this yearfor donald and what you think that is in this year for donald trump? i think it is different because donald trump doesn't need policy support, he has already been president of the united states. so is he looking for something that can move the needle with a specific demographic? someone who has no presidential ambitions in 2028 and isjust going to presidential ambitions in 2028 and is just going to sit and be his partnerforfour and is just going to sit and be his partner for four years? there are a lot of things he could choose from and the question is, which one does he want? ~ ., ., ., ., want? we will have to wait to find out. _ want? we will have to wait to find out, won't _ want? we will have to wait to find out, won't we? - want? we will have to wait to find out, won't we? yes, - want? we will have to wait to find out, won't we? yes, wel find out, won't we? yes, we will! ., ~ find out, won't we? yes, we will! . ~ , ., , find out, won't we? yes, we will! . ~ i. , ., will! thank you. it is good to see ou will! thank you. it is good to see you again. _ will! thank you. it is good to see you again. i _ will! thank you. it is good to see you again. i am - will! thank you. it is good to see you again. i am joined i will! thank you. it is good to | see you again. i amjoined by see you again. i am 'oined by robert garcia _ see you again. i am 'oined by robert garcia who _ see you again. i amjoined by robert garcia who is - see you again. i amjoined by robert garcia who is a - see you again. i amjoined by robert garcia who is a joe - robert garcia who is a joe biden surrogate, thank you for being with us. not long to go until the start of the debate, what will go on for the president and what are his last—minute preparations? i president and what are his last-minute preparations? i saw the president _ last-minute preparations? i saw the president not _ last-minute preparations? i saw the president not too _ last-minute preparations? i saw the president not too long -

last-minute preparations? i saw the president not too long ago l the president not too long ago and he — the president not too long ago and he is — the president not too long ago and he is excited. the energy, he saw — and he is excited. the energy, he saw supporters earlier and is really— he saw supporters earlier and is really excited to meet a conscious, a good man, president who has a record of lowering _ president who has a record of lowering health care costs, the infrastructure bill and protecting a woman's right to choose — protecting a woman's right to choose versus quite frankly a convicted _ choose versus quite frankly a convicted criminal who also happens _ convicted criminal who also happens to be a conman. and in my opinion, _ happens to be a conman. and in my opinion, a traitor to our country— my opinion, a traitor to our country who incited an attack on our — country who incited an attack on our very capital. that contest _ on our very capital. that contest will be made clear tonight _ contest will be made clear tonight. we will see a president proud of his record and we — president proud of his record and we will ensure every single lie that— and we will ensure every single lie that donald trump makes on that stage, we push back on. | that stage, we push back on. know you that stage, we push back on. i know you could not hear mark, but he made the point donald trump will say tojoe biden, why didn't you do these things you plan to do and why have you not don them now? that affects the person in the oval office on the point of the debate night, isn't it? i on the point of the debate night, isn't it?— night, isn't it? i thinkjoe biden night, isn't it? i thinkjoe iaiden can _ night, isn't it? i thinkjoe biden can say, _ night, isn't it? i thinkjoe biden can say, look - night, isn't it? i thinkjoe biden can say, look at. night, isn't it? | think joe | biden can say, look at what night, isn't it? | think joe i biden can say, look at what i have — biden can say, look at what i have done. we have lowered the health _ have done. we have lowered the health care costs for people who — health care costs for people who take insulin to $35. expanded health care. we are

rebuilding the country because my infrastructure bill. we pass the first— my infrastructure bill. we pass the first gun reform legislation in decades. we are working — legislation in decades. we are working to ensure that abortion is protected. joe biden has a record — is protected. joe biden has a record to _ is protected. joe biden has a record to run on and it is also about— record to run on and it is also about what— record to run on and it is also about what he's going to do in the future. we know at the centre _ the future. we know at the centre of— the future. we know at the centre of that is protecting people's rights, protecting our democracy and making sure donald _ democracy and making sure donald trump doesn't work to destroy— donald trump doesn't work to destroy the very fabric of our election— destroy the very fabric of our election system and democracy. we expect tens of millions of american voters to tune into this event tonight. how many are persuadable by what they will see? i are persuadable by what they will see? ~ are persuadable by what they will see? ,, , ., ., will see? i think you will have persuadable _ will see? i think you will have persuadable voters _ will see? i think you will have persuadable voters and - will see? i think you will have persuadable voters and a - will see? i think you will have persuadable voters and a lot l will see? i think you will have l persuadable voters and a lot of people — persuadable voters and a lot of people in — persuadable voters and a lot of people in states like michigan and pennsylvania and wisconsin watching — and pennsylvania and wisconsin watching the debate tonight. it is really— watching the debate tonight. it is really important folks get engaged and understand the stakes _ engaged and understand the stakes. there is a binary choice _ stakes. there is a binary choice. we have to remember what — choice. we have to remember what donald trump did when he was president. he attacked our institutions, he let a mob —— he led — institutions, he let a mob —— he led a _ institutions, he let a mob —— he led a mob against the capitol— he led a mob against the capitol and rolled back a woman's right to choose. he's

working — woman's right to choose. he's working on— woman's right to choose. he's working on doing everything he can to — working on doing everything he can to get huge tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires in this— millionaires and billionaires in this country. that is conscious tonight and joe biden 'ust conscious tonight and joe biden just has— conscious tonight and joe biden just has to stick to the record in making _ just has to stick to the record in making sure donald trump hazmat — in making sure donald trump hazmat lies don't go unchecked. nevertheless, joe biden is trailing in many of the polls, not by a lot, but he is trailing and we will throw a lot of salt with the polls this far from lot of salt with the polls this farfrom election day. what can he do to win back the base of the democratic party, some of whom say they are moving to joe whom say they are moving tojoe biden, ethnic groupings in particular?— biden, ethnic groupings in articular? ., particular? the most important olls are particular? the most important polls are on — particular? the most important polls are on election _ particular? the most important polls are on election day - particular? the most important polls are on election day and i polls are on election day and overall. _ polls are on election day and overall, the president is doing great — overall, the president is doing great and _ overall, the president is doing great and has been improving for the — great and has been improving for the last few weeks and months _ for the last few weeks and months and that is really important. i believe the president is in the driver's seat _ president is in the driver's seat he _ president is in the driver's seat. he is defending a strong record — seat. he is defending a strong record. making sure people know is what _ record. making sure people know is what he — record. making sure people know is what he wants to do in the future — is what he wants to do in the future. this election will be about— future. this election will be about a _ future. this election will be about a number of important things — about a number of important things. number one, two women have _ things. number one, two women have the — things. number one, two women have the right to an abortion and — have the right to an abortion and over— have the right to an abortion and overtheir own have the right to an abortion and over their own bodies? if

you support that, you vote for joe biden _ you support that, you vote for joe biden. if you think you should _ joe biden. if you think you should roll back the rights of women, _ should roll back the rights of women, macro one is your candidate. they want someone who gives _ candidate. they want someone who gives tax cuts to middle—class families are not billionaires —— donald trump is your— billionaires —— donald trump is your candidate. protect lgbtq rights — your candidate. protect lgbtq rights and not roll them back. and _ rights and not roll them back. and we — rights and not roll them back. and we do not want to have a donald — and we do not want to have a donald trump that will try to stay — donald trump that will try to stay in — donald trump that will try to stay in office and destroy the election— stay in office and destroy the election system and become a dictator— election system and become a dictator on day one, that is the — dictator on day one, that is the choice voters will have. and — the choice voters will have. and he _ the choice voters will have. and he has said that. why do you thinkjoe biden is in this position and why is that message you have outlined not landing with voters? i message you have outlined not landing with voters?— landing with voters? i think it is landing. — landing with voters? i think it is landing, the _ landing with voters? i think it is landing, the campaign - landing with voters? i think it is landing, the campaign has| landing with voters? i think it | is landing, the campaign has a robust — is landing, the campaign has a robust operation being rolled out every single day. we are seeing — out every single day. we are seeing joe biden do better in polling _ seeing joe biden do better in polling. if you look at most polling. _ polling. if you look at most polling, joe biden is inching ahead — polling, joe biden is inching ahead of donald trump, that is the position we will continue to see — the position we will continue to see through the election, but polls— to see through the election, but polls are a snapshot in time _ but polls are a snapshot in time, the most important thing is we _ time, the most important thing is we defend the biden record, which —

is we defend the biden record, which i — is we defend the biden record, which i think is an incredible record. _ which i think is an incredible record, especially for progressives like myself. i will— progressives like myself. i will make sure the president does — will make sure the president does everything he can to reach out to— does everything he can to reach out to voters and he is doing that — out to voters and he is doing that. ~ ., ., , ., that. we will wait to see what ha--ens that. we will wait to see what happens later— that. we will wait to see what happens later on. _ that. we will wait to see what i happens later on. congressman bob garcia from california, thank you forjoining us. around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. stay here for more coverage of the cnn presidential debate. let's go back to our panel, stephanie murphy, a former democratic congresswoman from florida and roddy davis, a former republican congressman from illinois. your thoughts on what you have heard from both mark and congressman robert garcia. what you make of how things are set up for the night, stephanie?- set up for the night, stephanie? set up for the night, stehanie? , ,., ., stephanie? they were both on messaue stephanie? they were both on message for— stephanie? they were both on message for their _ stephanie? they were both on message for their respective l message for their respective campaigns and they are hoping their candidate will be able to

land those points. but when you are on that stage and under those lights and there is an adversarial almost relationship between the two men, it will be interesting to see whether or not you can land the points you are able to lay out, laid out by your campaign that you practised in settings that had people playing the part as opposed to somebody who is the actual opponent.— actual opponent. rodney, what do ou actual opponent. rodney, what do you think? _ actual opponent. rodney, what do you think? do _ actual opponent. rodney, what do you think? do we _ actual opponent. rodney, what do you think? do we still - actual opponent. rodney, what do you think? do we still havel do you think? do we still have rodney? do you think? do we still have rodne ? ., ,, ., ., , rodney? you know, after this many years — rodney? you know, after this many years on _ rodney? you know, after this many years on zoom, - rodney? you know, after this many years on zoom, i - rodney? you know, after this many years on zoom, i don'tl many years on zoom, idon't know— many years on zoom, idon't know how— many years on zoom, i don't know how to work the mute button, _ know how to work the mute button, i _ know how to work the mute button, i apologise! know how to work the mute button, iapologise! you know how to work the mute button, i apologise! you are with us, _ button, i apologise! you are with us, that _ button, i apologise! you are with us, that is _ button, i apologise! you are with us, that is the - button, i apologise! you are with us, that is the main - with us, that is the main thing! with us, that is the main thin! ., , , ., with us, that is the main thin! ., ,, ., . ., , thing! congressman garcia, they are doinu thing! congressman garcia, they are doing what _ thing! congressman garcia, they are doing what they _ thing! congressman garcia, they are doing what they should - thing! congressman garcia, they are doing what they should do, i are doing what they should do, they— are doing what they should do, they are — are doing what they should do, they are laying on expectations

so their— they are laying on expectations so their candidates can come out the — so their candidates can come out the winner. and frankly, i think— out the winner. and frankly, i think many of their comments echo— think many of their comments echo what stephanie and i have been _ echo what stephanie and i have been saying already. there are opportunities for both candidates to come out of here the victor. _ candidates to come out of here the victor, but also opportunities for both candidates to settle into the perceptions that their opponent once _ perceptions that their opponent once the — perceptions that their opponent once the american people to think— once the american people to think about them. joe biden and his team — think about them. joe biden and his team and congressman garcia mentioned — his team and congressman garcia mentioned this, they want to show— mentioned this, they want to show donald trump is unhinged. they— show donald trump is unhinged. they need — show donald trump is unhinged. they need to get him angry and show— they need to get him angry and show the — they need to get him angry and show the american people he doesn't — show the american people he doesn't have the self—control to be — doesn't have the self—control to be president once again and forget — to be president once again and forget about it. they want the american _ forget about it. they want the american people to forget about the good — american people to forget about the good things donald trump did when president. and the former— did when president. and the former president trump team, they— former president trump team, they want— former president trump team, they want to showjoe biden as somebody who is too old to be president _ somebody who is too old to be president and he has got to have — president and he has got to have a _ president and he has got to have a senior moment. but in the end. _ have a senior moment. but in the end. i_ have a senior moment. but in the end, i think both of them are willing to come out afterwards and talk about how great — afterwards and talk about how

great their candidate did, but time — great their candidate did, but time will— great their candidate did, but time will tell. 0n whether or not enough people in enough small— not enough people in enough small states are going to decide _ small states are going to decide this election are going to be — decide this election are going to be watching this debate and thinking — to be watching this debate and thinking that that is going to change — thinking that that is going to change their mind.— thinking that that is going to change their mind. rodney, what do ou change their mind. rodney, what do you think _ change their mind. rodney, what do you think the _ change their mind. rodney, what do you think the difference - change their mind. rodney, what do you think the difference is - do you think the difference is going to make to this in terms of not having that live studio audience for the reaction, having the mute button and all of that, will that change the tone and pace of things? well, durin: tone and pace of things? well, during covid. _ tone and pace of things? well, during covid, i— tone and pace of things? well, during covid, i did _ tone and pace of things? well, during covid, i did a _ tone and pace of things? well, during covid, i did a few- during covid, i did a few debates— during covid, i did a few debates in an empty studio with two cameras and ironically, the host— two cameras and ironically, the host was— two cameras and ironically, the host was zooming in to ask us questions _ host was zooming in to ask us questions. and in the end, i am a little — questions. and in the end, i am a little concerned. how are they— a little concerned. how are they going to keep, mute the studio— they going to keep, mute the studio enough so if donald trump _ studio enough so if donald trump orjoe biden wants to scream _ trump orjoe biden wants to scream at _ trump orjoe biden wants to scream at the other, the other microphone doesn't pick it up? this— microphone doesn't pick it up? this is— microphone doesn't pick it up? this is new— microphone doesn't pick it up? this is new territory for all of us _ this is new territory for all

of us we _ this is new territory for all of us. we really don't know what — of us. we really don't know what this— of us. we really don't know what this is going to bring until— what this is going to bring until we _ what this is going to bring until we see it.— what this is going to bring until we see it. and isn't that what makes _ until we see it. and isn't that what makes politics - until we see it. and isn't that what makes politics and - what makes politics and political television and political television and political theatre is so exciting for all of us? we will of course see what happens when that starts just over a little over half an hour from that starts just over a little over half an hourfrom now that starts just over a little over half an hour from now at 9pm eastern time. you are joining us here live on bbc news, where we are awaiting the beginning of the cnn presidential debate which we will be broadcasting live. i am joint to discuss what lies ahead by the former 2024 republican presidential candidate, thank you for joining on bbc news. you know all about standing on the debate stage like this half an hour until countdown, what is going on at this point? i hour until countdown, what is going on at this point?- going on at this point? i hope what is going _ going on at this point? i hope what is going on _ going on at this point? i hope what is going on is _ going on at this point? i hope what is going on is the - what is going on is the moderators who i worry most about, not trump and biden. look themselves in the mirror

and ask themselves, what is their role in this process? to be an ideologue and advance and outcome mostly step out of the way? the less work the moderators are doing tonight, the betterfor the moderators are doing tonight, the better for the american people. in the context of president trump or the biden camp, just figure out why you are in this in the first place. they will have gotten advice from a lot of people and i have given my advice to president trump. there are a lot of policy suggestions on where to focus, but my number one advice, be yourself, that's what the american people voted for. somebody who is not a traditional politician, not a politician at all, someone who spoke from the gut, it got him in trouble with the media but that's ok, that's the price of being truly authentic. and unscented and unfiltered rather

than scripted like so many politicians. i know he is feeling great. i think you're going to be successful. ii feeling great. i think you're going to be successful. if he ist in: going to be successful. if he is trying to _ going to be successful. if he is trying to win _ going to be successful. if he is trying to win over- going to be successful. if he is trying to win over the - is trying to win over the voters who are undecided, may be middle of the road, in some of the battleground states, maybe they don't like the real donald trump, what does he need to do to win them over?— to do to win them over? look, i think the _ to do to win them over? look, i think the version _ to do to win them over? look, i think the version of _ to do to win them over? look, i think the version of donald - think the version of donald trump presented to the public is a little different than the donald trump i've got to know in the last six months. there is more to him, he cares deeply about national unity. as i have got to know him, one of the things i have encouraged him to do, and i think he's doing it on the campaign trail now, is to share how much he cares about this country. it doesn't come across in the media reports. when i say be yourself, i think that the right strategy. a lot of people saying biden's strategy is to get under trump's skin and trigger him. if you told the

american people who they really are, i think donald trump wins. yes, they care about the economy and immigration, those are the top issues, but there is a sickness in this country right now. we are in the middle of the largest national crisis of the largest national crisis of self—confidence that i think we have faced in the history of this country. the reality is if people at home tonight look on the screen and say, who is going to make me proud of being a citizen of this country? who themselves is more proud of being an american, vote for that candidate, who is, and i believe it's going to be donald trump. believe it's going to be donald trum -. ~ , ., believe it's going to be donald trum. ~ ., ,, believe it's going to be donald trum.~ ., ,, ., trump. when you talk about national unity _ trump. when you talk about national unity and _ trump. when you talk about national unity and being - trump. when you talk about i national unity and being proud, many people would say donald trump has done more than his fair share to damage national unity, and a lot of his commentary is quite divisive and negative. he talks about american decline and carnage. look, i think we are a nation in decline, no doubt, but we don't have to stay that way. donald trump says things which the media edits out. he says

success... the media edits out. he says success- - -— success... even referring to vengeance. _ success... even referring to vengeance, that _ success... even referring to vengeance, that is - success... even referring to vengeance, that is negative language. vengeance, that is negative language-— vengeance, that is negative lanaauae. language. look, ithink people don'twant_ language. look, ithink people don't want to _ language. look, ithink people don't want to surface - language. look, ithink people don't want to surface cosmeticj don't want to surface cosmetic language, they want the truth. as ronald reagan did, saying it's morning in america right now... well, it's not morning in america, people understand that, with flat wages and prices going up. we have suffered the scourge of crime in the inner cities, the largest infiltration to the southern water. if you'd tell people it's all hunky—dory, it's a lie. but if we deliver the message... —— the southern border. it's not morning in america, but it can be. the american dream is alive and hanging on for life support, but it can be. we don't have to be a nation in decline, it doesn't have to stay that way, we can be a nation in assent. that is what i know donald trump believes. i have got to

know him. the betterjob he does imparting that the country, the more he will win over independents. ii country, the more he will win over independents.— country, the more he will win over independents. if you are talkin: over independents. if you are talking about _ over independents. if you are talking about a _ over independents. if you are talking about a new— over independents. if you are talking about a new vision - over independents. if you are talking about a new vision of| talking about a new vision of america, america's new plays, how much do you think foreign policy will feature in the debate tonight? i policy will feature in the debate tonight?- policy will feature in the debate tonight? i think it should come _ debate tonight? i think it should come up - debate tonight? i think it should come up tonight. | debate tonight? i think it - should come up tonight. there are major— should come up tonight. there are major issues _ should come up tonight. there are major issues in _ should come up tonight. there are major issues in terms - should come up tonight. there are major issues in terms of. are major issues in terms of ukraine, what has gone on in congress in agreeing funding... what i find interesting, this is not particularly republican versus democrat, there are deep debates and divides... particularly in the republican party. particularly in the republican -a . particularly in the republican party. both parties. more broadly. _ party. both parties. more broadly. i— party. both parties. more broadly, ithink— party. both parties. more broadly, i think it's - party. both parties. more broadly, i think it's not i party. both parties. more i broadly, i think it's notjust a red versus blue issue, it about first principles. let's talk about records. in four years of trump, greater stretch in the 21st century of stability, peace and prosperity in the western world and around the world. in four years of

biden, we are closer to world war iii than we have been in our lifetimes. so i hope they do talk about that. when trump took office, we had great instability, potentially on the verge of war with north korea, then we had total stability for four years. conflict in the middle east and the ukraine, and what's going on in azerbaijan, with the incursion on nagorno—karabakh. things you don't hear about... on nagorno-karabakh. things you don't hear about. . ._ don't hear about... there is [en don't hear about... there is plenty going _ don't hear about... there is plenty going on _ don't hear about... there is plenty going on in - don't hear about... there is plenty going on in the - don't hear about... there is. plenty going on in the world, and people are looking to the us for leadership, what is donald trump going to deliver there? ., , there? the way he did in the first term. — there? the way he did in the first term, with _ there? the way he did in the first term, with honesty - there? the way he did in the first term, with honesty and| first term, with honesty and candour. ~ first term, with honesty and candour-_ first term, with honesty and candour. ~ . ., candour. when he talks about withdrawing _ candour. when he talks about withdrawing and _ candour. when he talks about withdrawing and stepping - candour. when he talks about| withdrawing and stepping back from international organisations like nato and the united nations...— united nations... what donald trum - united nations... what donald trump brings. _ united nations... what donald trump brings, which _ united nations. .. what donald trump brings, which i - united nations... what donald trump brings, which i think - united nations... what donald trump brings, which i think is| trump brings, which i think is good for: policy —— which is good for: policy —— which is good for: policy —— which is good forforeign policy good for: policy —— which is good for foreign policy is candour. amongst allies, it is radical honesty, true friends

are honest with each other. with nato, yeah, a majority of member countries not paying the minimum 2% of gdp on military expenditure. i agree with donald trump a's position that every country that is a member of an alliance needs to pay its fair preagreed share of the burden, that is honesty and candour. the world and the us is safer when we can be candid with our allies. donald trump brought it the first time around, and i think you will notjust back from the brink of world war iii. the area of stability that we need on the global stage. stability that we need on the global stage-— global stage. let's see what ha--ens global stage. let's see what happens on _ global stage. let's see what happens on this _ global stage. let's see what happens on this stage - global stage. let's see what happens on this stage later. thanks forjoining us. debates can set a tone for the campaign, and they are a big opportunity to change the minds of voters, as we have just heard, especially this debate tonight. the earliest debate ever held in a presidential campaign, injune.

joining me now is terry szuplat, he was one of former president barack 0bama's longest—serving speechwriters. what would be going through what would be going throuthoe biden's mine? we have heard what's going on with donald trump, but with minutes on the clock before this debate, what aboutjoe biden? clock before this debate, what about joe biden?— about joe biden? sure, ithink with any incumbent _ about joe biden? sure, ithinkj with any incumbent president, there are opportunities and challenges in the first debate. president biden has a strong record to run on. he knows his message. he gives speeches all the time. both candidates know their message. the challenge tonight with the debate is the format, the fact they have to give answers in two minutes, and 62nd rebuttals. we don't talk like that with our families, with our colleagues. -- 60-2nd families, with our colleagues. —— 60—2nd rebuttals. having the

discipline to borrow your message and put it in digestible sound bites to resonate with the american people, many of whom are still making up their mind. itruiith making up their mind. with preparation _ making up their mind. with preparation for _ making up their mind. with preparation for something like this, does it involve not trying to learn but to familiarise yourself with answers that are less than two minutes long, to get your message across in a short amount of time?- message across in a short amount of time? sure, i mean, that is what _ amount of time? sure, i mean, that is what debate _ amount of time? sure, i mean, that is what debate prep - amount of time? sure, i mean, that is what debate prep is - amount of time? sure, i mean, that is what debate prep is all l that is what debate prep is all about. again, every candidate, they know their policies inside out, that is not what this is, it is not a rambling free—flowing conversation with a journalist. you are given this absurd task of boiling down the us economy or reproductive rights or immigration down to two minutes. that's why i think so much of the commentary around this, unfortunately, is about the performance aspect of it.

there well known, their messages are well known at this point. so much of what the american people will decide on is what they see. whether they want this person to be the president for anotherfour president for another four years. this election's president for anotherfour years. this election's probably going to come down to about six states, one of which is wisconsin, where i am tonight. within each of these states, there are only about 15, maybe 20% of the people who are undecided. most people have made up their minds. sol undecided. most people have made up their minds. so i am watching the debate tonight with several hundred republicans, democrats, independents, all in the same room. let's see if that's a good idea, who knows what can happen! particularly watching what the independent tonight and the undecideds think tonight. and the undecideds think toniaht. ., . ~' and the undecideds think toniaht. ., .~ ., and the undecideds think toniaht. ., ., tonight. you make a 'oke about them all being _ tonight. you make a 'oke about them all being in _ tonight. you make a joke about them all being in the _ tonight. you make a joke about them all being in the same - tonight. you make a joke about. them all being in the same room together, but this country is quite polarised at the moment. in those states, there are

family members, some are trump supporters and some are biden supporters, and they can't talk to each other.— to each other. yeah, it's hard, it's been _ to each other. yeah, it's hard, it's been very _ to each other. yeah, it's hard, it's been very unfortunate - to each other. yeah, it's hard, it's been very unfortunate the | it's been very unfortunate the last few election cycles in the united states. a lot of divisions within families and communities, companies. the group that is bringing these americans together tonight is called braver angels. they don't ask people to change their views but they asked people to find a better more constructive way of communicating. a lot of people to tune into a presidential debate for the theatrics and the performances and the zingers. if they land a body blow, it will land over and over again. blow, it will land over and overagain. politics blow, it will land over and over again. politics is like that. our lives don't have to be like that. we make a choice of citizens, neighbours and friends how to conduct ourselves. that is what this group will be working on. one of the things a lot of americans are looking for is

which candidate tonight can conduct themselves with the decency, the decorum that a president should have. 0ne decency, the decorum that a president should have. one of the big questions will be, when this is all over, which candidate did comport themselves? we are choosing a president, we are choosing a person to represent our country to the world. the american people will see tonight and really in stark contrast, two very different leaders and very different styles. they will make their choice. i don't think this rate is going to fundamentally change with this debate. debate rarely do. —— this race. will it have an effect? debates and big speeches rarely fundamentally change a race. i predict a week or eight months from now, the race will still largely be very tight, probably very tight all the way to the very end. —— a

week or a month from now. you talk about _ week or a month from now. you talk about the _ week or a month from now. you talk about the race _ week or a month from now. you talk about the race not having shifted since the state of the union, which it hasn't. it is as tight as it was. donald trump still has a few points of an edge overjoe biden in some of the polls, so what doesjoe biden need to do tonight to make a change in the race? i would agree with you, the race remains very tight. 0ne would agree with you, the race remains very tight. one thing we have seen in the last few weeks is there has been a small but noticeable shift since former president trump was convicted of 34 felonies. he is now a convicted felon. there has been a tightening in the race. it hasn't fundamentally change the dynamics of the race. i spent today talking with a lot of independent voters and undecideds in wisconsin. i kept hearing the same thing over and overfrom men, women, people of different

races and backgrounds, young and old. they are looking to see for president biden to deliver a very vigorous performance, a very vigorous defence of his record, like he did at the state of the union. and they are looking for donald trump, to say whether or not he is the donald trump of 2020, where he was constantly interrupting and didn't have the discipline or the self—control that the presidency demands, and he lost the debate and lost the election. 0r whether he can conduct himself in a way that is more the coming of a president. it's something i have heard over and over again, i was struck by the consistency of it. ~ ., ., , of it. we will wait to see which versions _ of it. we will wait to see which versions of- of it. we will wait to see which versions of the - which versions of the candidates we see on the debate stage a little later and we will chat to you later on, terry. thanks so much for joining us from wisconsin. 0ne joining us from wisconsin. one major topic that could show a divide between the candidates

is china, and how they want to manage the us relationship with one of the world's largest economies. both candidates are vying to be tough on beijing and have similar economic policies to combat china's lies, including raising tariffs on cheap chinese goods. but the biggest difference between the two is taiwan. —— to combat the rise of china. joining me now is jennifer welch, the chief geoeconomics analyst for bloomberg and former national security council director for china and taiwan. how big will china loom large over the debate tonight? when it comes to _ over the debate tonight? when it comes to foreign _ over the debate tonight? when it comes to foreign policy, - it comes to foreign policy, china is likely to be one of the big three topics along with the big three topics along with the russia ukraine war, and the war in the middle east. as you noted, both candidates are pitching themselves as hawkish on china. their records stand by that. former president trump launched a trade war against china and a number of other actions, especially when the pandemic began. president biden has continued and maintained

many of those policies especially in trade. it's going to be about who is tougher in the debate, and the reality from the beijing perspective is both of them have been quite tart, and regardless of what happens in november, the direction of travel in the us china relationship isn't likely to change all that much. [30 china relationship isn't likely to change all that much. do you think we will— to change all that much. do you think we will hear _ to change all that much. do you think we will hear something i to change all that much. do you think we will hear something on taiwan as well, and how that will be handled? i taiwan as well, and how that will be handled?— will be handled? i would be surprised — will be handled? i would be surprised if _ will be handled? i would be surprised if the _ will be handled? i would be surprised if the question i surprised if the question didn't come up. we also know what both candidates would say in response to that. former president trump has been very careful not to lay out clearly his position on taiwan, although he has at times implicitly linked us support to taiwan to the island's chip industry and the advantages of advanced chips in particular. president biden on a number of occasions has stood by the idea of us support for taiwan and defence commitment to the island. if it comes up, i would

expect you would hear similar refrains from both candidates that we have heard in the past. of course, the relationship of course, the relationship with china is somewhat overlapping with the relationship with russia, in terms of the interaction between vladimir putin and resident xi, and a recent trip to north korea as well. how do you think those wider foreign—policy issues, against the counterbalancing, how it will feature in the debate? absolutely. for example, president biden will talk about the challenge across all fronts, starting to see the axis between beijing, moscow, pyongyang and tehran. the need to support ukraine and partners all around the world, because you can't differentiate between these different conflicts and these different conflicts and these different conflicts and these different theatres, because our rivals are not doing so. whereas president trump will refer to the russia ukraine war and a failure of

biden's foreign policy and say things like it would have never happened on his watch. and as soon as he gets into office, he will be able to resolve it rather quickly. the extent to which we will get details on how he plans to do that, i don't know if this will be the platform in which we will get those sort of details from him. and then of course the other large internationalforeign relations issue is the situation in the middle east, which again one would anticipate... we haven't seen any questions from cnn but you would anticipate that would be on the slate as well. absolutely, and there president biden faces a tough challenge both trying not to distance himself from the left wing of his party, which would like to see a different approach in particular towards israel and the ongoing campaign in gaza, and other parts of the electorate who are traditionally more supportive of israel, to the extent to which they are paying attention to this. former president trump

will play right into that and he will attack president biden's record on it, and in particular attacked the president for not delaying shipments of arms to israel and being publicly critical of the approach at times. at the same time, hedging there.— time, hedging there. when you are speaking — time, hedging there. when you are speaking to _ time, hedging there. when you are speaking to your— are speaking to your counterpart around the world, how are other countries looking to this debate, this contest, as to what it means for the next four years of american foreign policy? is whether america will lean into the world or lean back? absolutely, this is a debate _ world or lean back? absolutely, this is a debate watched - this is a debate watched closely by audiences not only in american partner states but also in rivals. in particular, signals of how former president trump especially is talking about issues like ukraine, naco, us forces in south korea and japan. and rivals, in particular china, looking at where both candidates... we

know they will be harsh no matter what, know they will be harsh no matterwhat, but know they will be harsh no matter what, but what specific policy proposals are they going to stand by in this? we policy proposals are they going to stand by in this?— to stand by in this? we will wait to see, _ to stand by in this? we will wait to see, we _ to stand by in this? we will wait to see, we don't i to stand by in this? we will wait to see, we don't have| wait to see, we don't have long. slightly over ten minutes before the candidates take to the debate stage and lay out their policies and plans. jennifer, thanks so much for speaking to us on bbc news. let's return to our panel, former representives stephanie murphy, democrat from florida — and rodney smith, republican from illinois. we had a lot in the last whilst on both campaigns as to how they might be approaching this. —— in the last while. i think we can deduce it will be sparky. we can deduce it will be sparky-— we can deduce it will be sar . ~ ., , we can deduce it will be sar .~ ., sparky. with donald trump and joe biden on — sparky. with donald trump and joe biden on stage, _ sparky. with donald trump and joe biden on stage, it's - sparky. with donald trump and joe biden on stage, it's going i joe biden on stage, it's going to be interesting, it's going

to be interesting, it's going to be interesting, it's going to be feisty. it plays to the advantage and disadvantage of both candidates if they lose their discipline. if it becomes a knockdown drag out, i think joe biden winds, because he would be successful in reminding the american people that donald trump may not have the temperament to return to the temperament to return to the white house.— the temperament to return to the white house. stephanie, we have heard _ the white house. stephanie, we have heard a _ the white house. stephanie, we have heard a lot _ the white house. stephanie, we have heard a lot about _ the white house. stephanie, we have heard a lot about joe i have heard a lot aboutjoe biden's capabilities, not so much his suitability, for the office. the trump campaign making a lot of his age and what they call his frailty. how is he going to handle that? he needs to come with the same energy— needs to come with the same energy and vigour as he did at the state _ energy and vigour as he did at the state of the union. because the state of the union. because the other— the state of the union. because the other side has set the bar so low, — the other side has set the bar so low, just as they did for the — so low, just as they did for the state _ so low, just as they did for the state of the union, if he is able _ the state of the union, if he is able to— the state of the union, if he is able to perform at a level like —

is able to perform at a level like he _ is able to perform at a level like he did at the state of the union. — like he did at the state of the union. he _ like he did at the state of the union, he will be able to say that— union, he will be able to say that he _ union, he will be able to say that he won. he exceeded expectations, that he is capable, and he can quell some of the _ capable, and he can quell some of the concerns that exist, not 'ust of the concerns that exist, not just with — of the concerns that exist, not just with republicans, the criticism, but also the quiet concerns— criticism, but also the quiet concerns within his own party regarding _ concerns within his own party regarding his age and his ability _ regarding his age and his abili . ., y regarding his age and his abili . ., , ., ., ~ ability. rodney, we heard talk about donald _ ability. rodney, we heard talk about donald trump _ ability. rodney, we heard talk about donald trump wanting i ability. rodney, we heard talkl about donald trump wanting to put forward this view of national unity. unity has to start within the republican party as well, doesn't it? taste party as well, doesn't it? we will see if— party as well, doesn't it? we will see if he _ party as well, doesn't it? - will see if he gets there tonight. i would will see if he gets there tonight. iwould be will see if he gets there tonight. i would be shocked if he is talking about national unity. we are a divided nation right now. i'm in washington, dc. i talked to many of my former colleagues today, and they told me it's never been more polarised. 0ne they told me it's never been more polarised. one of my colleagues who has been in office since 1981. he cannot remember our nation more divided. i don't think both

candidates are going to play towards unification. they will convert to their base that they will come out of this and say they are the winner. brute will come out of this and say they are the winner. we spoke earlier in the _ they are the winner. we spoke earlier in the season, - they are the winner. we spoke earlier in the season, various i earlier in the season, various primaries and so on, about the couch factor, those who like neither candidate under and who might stay at home. they will be on the couch the night to watch this debate. if they are going to appeal to their base, what does that do for trying to bring out those middle—of—the—road voters? i don't think it does much, which is why i said earlier this debate could have consequences for president trump or president biden. because this election is going to be decided by such a small margin. just like it was in the similar

states in 2016, 2020. it behoves both candidates right now... president biden has to remind the american people, as he did at the state of the union, that he is a stable and energetic leader. president trump has got to stay disciplined, get those couch voters, those double haters, to come back to him for the reason people like him. the best years economically our nation has ever had, he said. immigration—wise, crime—wise, thatis immigration—wise, crime—wise, that is what donald trump did well. he has to focus on these issues, ijust don't know if you will have the discipline to do it. ,, , ., ., ., do it. stephanie, what do you think? i do it. stephanie, what do you think? | think _ do it. stephanie, what do you think? i think you _ do it. stephanie, what do you think? i think you are - do it. stephanie, what do you think? i think you are right i think? i think you are right regarding the couch. biden's

bi est regarding the couch. biden's biggest threat _ regarding the couch. biden's biggest threat isn't - biggest threat isn't necessarily trump, it's the couch _ necessarily trump, it's the couch. notjust for the independent voters but also for members of his own party who might— members of his own party who might be — members of his own party who might be upset with him for one reason — might be upset with him for one reason or— might be upset with him for one reason or another. democrats are a _ reason or another. democrats are a block— reason or another. democrats are a block of voters, it takes effort — are a block of voters, it takes effort to _ are a block of voters, it takes effort to get them to the polling booths. from experience, you have to have a robust. — experience, you have to have a robust. get _ experience, you have to have a robust, get out the vote effort _ robust, get out the vote effort. you have to knock on their— effort. you have to knock on their doors, really engage with them _ their doors, really engage with them to— their doors, really engage with them to get them to show up at them to get them to show up at the polls — them to get them to show up at the polls. they are not the kind — the polls. they are not the kind of— the polls. they are not the kind of reliable voters that some _ kind of reliable voters that some of— kind of reliable voters that some of the older, more conservative american voters tend to be. so it takes some effort — tend to be. so it takes some effort i_ tend to be. so it takes some effort. i think if there are young _ effort. i think if there are young voters or democrats who are concerned or upset with the president. _ are concerned or upset with the president, it will take a little _ president, it will take a little more effort this year to -et little more effort this year to get them to the polls as opposed to having them just sit out. opposed to having them just sit out as— opposed to having them just sit out as for— opposed to having them just sit out. as for the independents, they— out. as for the independents,

they are — out. as for the independents, they are not going to pick their— they are not going to pick their heads up and focus on the election— their heads up and focus on the election until much closer in. at that — election until much closer in. at that point, can be biden campaign get them to show up and cast— campaign get them to show up and casta— campaign get them to show up and cast a vote in his favour? just _ and cast a vote in his favour? just five _ and cast a vote in his favour? just five minutes out from the debate. we have been talking earlier about what both of you have experienced in your electoral careers with debates. five minutes out, what is going through your mind on a human level? are you nervous at this point? any time you do public speaking and you know the stakes are this high, it is very human to be nervous. i think the way to handle being nervous — think the way to handle being nervous is to be prepared. president biden has been preparing. his team have taken him to— preparing. his team have taken him to a — preparing. his team have taken him to a location where that's all he — him to a location where that's all he really focused on. he has — all he really focused on. he has done _ all he really focused on. he has done this before, he is a seasoned _ has done this before, he is a seasoned politician, 40 something years in politics. this— something years in politics. this isn't— something years in politics. this isn't his first rodeo. i'm sure —

this isn't his first rodeo. i'm sure he _ this isn't his first rodeo. i'm sure he can _ this isn't his first rodeo. i'm sure he can lean on his experience, and the fact he has prepared, — experience, and the fact he has prepared, to settle the nerves. he just — prepared, to settle the nerves. he just needs to make sure there — he just needs to make sure there aren't any physical stumbles or verbal stumbles during — stumbles or verbal stumbles during the debate that the other— during the debate that the other side can attack and criticise _ other side can attack and criticise him for. for president trump, in all the interviews i've heard of him this— interviews i've heard of him this week, he doesn't seem much concerned — this week, he doesn't seem much concerned about the debate. he 'ust concerned about the debate. he iust feels— concerned about the debate. he just feels like he's going to -et just feels like he's going to get out _ just feels like he's going to get out there and be himself. let's — get out there and be himself. let's see _ get out there and be himself. let's see whether or not that is to— let's see whether or not that is to his _ let's see whether or not that is to his detriment or his advantage.— is to his detriment or his advantaae. ., , , advantage. you can see behind me, it is advantage. you can see behind me. it is very _ advantage. you can see behind me, it is very empty _ advantage. you can see behind me, it is very empty now, i me, it is very empty now, because all of the supporters have gone off to their various watch parties. all of the potential vice presidential candidates are in and around here, we have seen many on the floor behind me. donald trump saying that his bp pick is at the debate, but nothing more

than that. we would have to wait until the convention to find out. —— his v p pic. at this point, when the clock is ticking, you are probably waiting in the wings, what is going through your mind? it’s going through your mind? it's like in any _ going through your mind? it�*s like in any competitive... playing american football. politics is football without the violence and the tackles. you are thinking the exact same thing... inaudible. inaudible. i am saying one last try and making sure i go out with an attitude of confidence. that is exactly what these candidates are doing right now, confidence among their team and their supporters, and theirfamily. supporters, and their family. when supporters, and theirfamily. when they walk out on the stage, it'sjust like when they walk out on the stage, it's just like walking out to have that first kick—off in american football. it is

gametime. when gametime happens, you had be prepared. and of course, with both individuals, they are well used to the spotlight, having been president of the united states forfour president of the united states for four years and almost four years, there is arguably no high—profile role. years, there is arguably no high-profile role.— years, there is arguably no high-profile role. no, there is not. high-profile role. no, there is not- people — high-profile role. no, there is not. people watching - high-profile role. no, there is not. people watching this i not. people watching this debate, the most they have ever had watching them in their entire lives. they are used to it. it is something we got used to in congress. i hope we see a differentjoe biden than republicans expect and i hope we see a different donald trump... we see a different donald trump- - -_ we see a different donald trump- - -— we see a different donald trum...�* ., ., ,, ., trump... before talking over ou, trump... before talking over you. rodney. _ trump... before talking over you, rodney, the _ trump. .. before talking over you, rodney, the hour- trump... before talking over you, rodney, the hour is i trump... before talking over i you, rodney, the hour is nearly upon us. we will hear plenty more from you both later. for

more from you both later. for more coverage and analysis of the debate, you can visit our live blog. the bbc will not be permitted to interrupt this broadcast we are about to share with cnn, but we will continue updating our live page throughout the night with analysis and fact checking. stay with us on bbc news as we go to the cnn presidential debate. we're live from georgia, the battleground state in the race for the white house. injust moments, the current us president will debate the former president as their parties presumptive nominees. a first in american history. we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the united states and around the world to our studios in atlanta. this is the cnn presidential debate. this

debate is _ presidential debate. this debate is being - presidential debate. try 3 debate is being produced by 90 al -- debate is being produced by 90 al —— by cnn as it is coming ai —— by cnn as it is coming live on cnn, cnn international, cnn dot—com and cnn spaniel. a pivotal moment between presidentjoe biden and former presidentjoe biden and former president donald trump in their rematch for the nation's highest office. each will make his case to the american people were just over four months until election day. good evening, i am until election day. good evening, iam dana bash, from cnn's inside politics and co—anchor of the state of the eugene. i co-anchor of the state of the eu . ene. ., co-anchor of the state of the eu~ene. ., , ~ co-anchor of the state of the eu~ene. . .~ ~ ., ,, co-anchor of the state of the eu~ene. . a ., ,, . eugene. i am jake tapper. we will co-moderate _ eugene. i am jake tapper. we will co-moderate this - eugene. i am jake tapper. we | will co-moderate this evening, will co—moderate this evening, ourjobis will co—moderate this evening, ourjob is to facilitate a debate between the two candidates tonight —— state of the union. we want to share the rules of the debate with the audience at home. former president trump will be on the left side of the screen, president biden will appear on the right. a coin toss determined their positions. each candidate will have two minutes to answer a question

and one minute each