figures. a temperatures in double figures. a mile start to thursday. on thursday we will keep their showers for northern ireland into western scotland. a few showers across the north of england, cloudy here but across these irish sea coast, it will turn cloudy and murky with that humid air starting to feed in. best of the sunshine for eastern wales with much of england, as far north as yorkshire, here into the low to mid 20s, 27 celsius possible in london and the south—east, above the july average. on friday it will feel warmer still. july average. on friday it will feel warmerstill. rain july average. on friday it will feel warmer still. rain approaching the western isles, always cloudier towards the north and west particularly done western coasts with that warm, humid feeling ever. best of the sunshine across parts of england and east wales. the mid 20s, we could even get to 30 celsius in london or east anglia and it all leads on to a very muggy night. then it is all over by saturday because

we have weather fronts tracking eastwards bringing behind it some much fresher feeding conditions. watch out for some thundery showers on saturday, perhaps showers on sunday, two but look at the drop in temperature as this programme continues on bbc one.

it is my government's objective to see rising living standards in all nations and regions in the united kingdom. nations and regions in the united kinudom. . , nations and regions in the united kinadom. ., , kingdom. that is the government's aromise kingdom. that is the government's promise but — kingdom. that is the government's promise but when _ kingdom. that is the government's promise but when will— kingdom. that is the government's promise but when will it _ kingdom. that is the government's promise but when will it happen? l

welcome to newsnight. obviously big day of politics here — which we will come to — but first, significant developments in the states tonight around president biden. this evening, he told interviewer ed gordon he would consider dropping his reelection campaign if a doctor told him he had a medical condition. in is there anything - that you would look to, you personally, not anybody else, not other pundits, not even - perhaps family members, . thatyou would look to to say, if i see that, i will re—evaluate? if i had some medical condition that emerged, if somebody, if doctors came in and said, you got this problem, that problem. plenty of other stuff moving as well, isn't there?— plenty of other stuff moving as well, isn't there? that is from the almi a h well, isn't there? that is from the almighty to _ well, isn't there? that is from the almighty to a _ well, isn't there? that is from the almighty to a mortal— well, isn't there? that is from the almighty to a mortal physician - well, isn't there? that is from the almighty to a mortal physician in l almighty to a mortal physician in just 12 days because of course it was on the 5th ofjuly thatjoe biden said it would take an intervention from on high for him to

stand down and now he is saying, i would do it on doctor's orders. as far as we can see, joe biden is absolutely determined to stay in this race but the momentum is moving against him once again. obviously there was a lull over the weekend when all the focus was on the attempted assassination of donald trump but now it is back and joe biden. so in the first place, the democratic national committee has announced it is going to delay by one week the virtual roll call of joe biden as the nominee. that will now start to take place in the first week of august. that move was done after an intervention by the two most senior democrats in congress. that is senator chuck schumer, the senate majority leader and hakim jefferies. crucially also today, adam schiff, representative from california, he is standing, contesting one of the vacant senate seatin contesting one of the vacant senate seat in california, he led the trump

impeachment in the house. he said joe biden should stand aside. that is really significant because adam schiff is very close to nancy pelosi, the former house speaker who is seen as one of the elders who might have some influence overjoe biden. a yougov poll showed two thirds of registered democrats believe joe thirds of registered democrats believejoe biden should stand aside. believe joe biden should stand aside. ~ ., believe joe biden should stand aside. ~ . ., , aside. meanwhile, donald trump in wisconsin. we _ aside. meanwhile, donald trump in wisconsin. we have _ aside. meanwhile, donald trump in wisconsin. we have pictures - wisconsin. we have pictures hopefully of him here, as he walked across the stage tonight, just practising. right behind him, it looks rather like the white house on the stage? looks rather like the white house on the staae? ., , looks rather like the white house on the staae? . , ., the stage? that is right, it was a aractice the stage? that is right, it was a practice run _ the stage? that is right, it was a practice run for— the stage? that is right, it was a practice run for his _ the stage? that is right, it was a practice run for his speech - practice run for his speech tomorrow. you can't quite see it but it looks like in that speech, there is going to be a big virtual white house. him pretty much saying, i think i'm there. now, it's been a significant political day here too. and with us tonight — mick lynch, general secretary of the rmt union, and the former deputy speaker of the house of commons and conservative mp for 32 years until he lost by 856

votes onjuly 4th, nigel evans. and he is still somehow have a smile on yourface? and he is still somehow have a smile on your face?— on your face? well, why not? why not? you respect _ on your face? well, why not? why not? you respect the _ on your face? well, why not? why not? you respect the voters' - not? you respect the voters' decision? — not? you respect the voters' decision? i _ not? you respect the voters' decision? i had _ not? you respect the voters' decision? i had 32 _ not? you respect the voters' decision? i had 32 years - not? you respect the voters' decision? i had 32 years on | not? you respect the voters' i decision? i had 32 years on the buckina decision? i had 32 years on the bucking bronco _ decision? i had 32 years on the bucking bronco so _ decision? i had 32 years on the bucking bronco so it's - decision? i had 32 years on the bucking bronco so it's not - decision? i had 32 years on the bucking bronco so it's not bad. j decision? i had 32 years on the l bucking bronco so it's not bad. i think_ bucking bronco so it's not bad. i think the — bucking bronco so it's not bad. i think the average stay is eight years. — think the average stay is eight years. 32— think the average stay is eight years, 32 is not bad. i would have liked _ years, 32 is not bad. i would have liked longer— years, 32 is not bad. i would have liked longer but the customer is always— liked longer but the customer is always right. liked longer but the customer is always right-— liked longer but the customer is always right. mick lynch, are you after the king's _ always right. mick lynch, are you after the king's speech _ always right. mick lynch, are you after the king's speech today a l after the king's speech today a happy union leader?— after the king's speech today a happy union leader? happier than a cou-le of happy union leader? happier than a couple of weeks _ happy union leader? happier than a couple of weeks ago. _ happy union leader? happier than a couple of weeks ago. i _ happy union leader? happier than a couple of weeks ago. i think - happy union leader? happier than a couple of weeks ago. i think we - happy union leader? happier than a couple of weeks ago. i think we gotj couple of weeks ago. i think we got the country on the move again. there is a bit of dynamism in the leadership of the country and we hope they can get their programme of the stocks very quickly, get a bit of energy going on all the issues that they are looking at, especially theissues that they are looking at, especially the issues we are interested in, transports. good news on that today. what they told us in opposition in the run—up to the election will be delivered. there will be legislation

in september, repealing the railways act which means we can get on the road to public ownership and the stuff about the new deal is very encouraging. stuff about the new deal is very encouraging-— stuff about the new deal is very encouraaian. . ., , ., . encouraging. what else do you want? because as a — encouraging. what else do you want? because as a union _ encouraging. what else do you want? because as a union leader, _ encouraging. what else do you want? because as a union leader, you - encouraging. what else do you want? because as a union leader, you were | because as a union leader, you were telling me earlier you always want more? we telling me earlier you always want more? ~ ., , telling me earlier you always want more? ~ . , ., telling me earlier you always want more? ~ ., , ., ., telling me earlier you always want more? ~ . , ., ., ~ more? we always want more. like eve one more? we always want more. like everyone else. _ more? we always want more. like everyone else. we _ more? we always want more. like everyone else, we are _ more? we always want more. like| everyone else, we are interested in the housing crisis, the cost of living crisis. we want people to get a better dealfrom this living crisis. we want people to get a better deal from this society. there is plenty of wealth, we need to work out a way of everyone getting a fair share of that, through hard work and the education system. we want to better health service. that will need a brave economic strategy. we don't think the current economic strategy, the fiscal rules they are following will be sufficient to address the needs of the country. that would have been true if the tories came in and it is true if the tories came in and it is true now rachel reeves is in charge. so they have to be brave about that and they have to find a way to bring the country with them because we are going to need more public spending. that will only come from growth, rachel reeves says, tax revenues

from growth?— rachel reeves says, tax revenues from growth? growth is a part of it but a-eole from growth? growth is a part of it but people have — from growth? growth is a part of it but people have to _ from growth? growth is a part of it but people have to be _ from growth? growth is a part of it but people have to be taxed - but people have to be taxed properly. there is plenty of wealth in this economy and we have to work out a way where we can tax people efficiently. a lot of people are avoiding tax and a lot of bogus employment. if we got people back on paye, paying their national insurance and paid directly the people that have the work, then we get a country that are paying its way, people are working hard, get the good conditions the legislation is going to provide for, get trade union rights and are paying taxes efficiently so we can run the country. efficiently so we can run the count . �* ., ., ,, ., ., country. before we talk more about the kina's country. before we talk more about the king's speech _ country. before we talk more about the king's speech with _ country. before we talk more about the king's speech with you - country. before we talk more about the king's speech with you and - country. before we talk more about| the king's speech with you and from the king's speech with you and from the tories' point of view, you have hotfooted it here from a meeting with the defeated tory mps, about 120 of them, got together with rishi sunak. what was... what were mps saying to rishi sunak? the intention was... sorry, what were the former mps saying? was. .. sorry, what were the former mps saying?— was... sorry, what were the former mps saying? there were 120 people but also people _

mps saying? there were 120 people but also people charles _ mps saying? there were 120 people but also people charles walker - mps saying? there were 120 people but also people charles walker who | but also people charles walker who stood _ but also people charles walker who stood down who wanted to reassure people _ stood down who wanted to reassure people they would be looked after. coaching _ people they would be looked after. coaching advice for those looking for employment outside of politics. there _ for employment outside of politics. there was— for employment outside of politics. there was another reason for us meeting — there was another reason for us meeting their other than rishi having — meeting their other than rishi having the opportunity to look us in the eye _ having the opportunity to look us in the eye and — having the opportunity to look us in the eye and say, i am sorry, which is what _ the eye and say, i am sorry, which is what he — the eye and say, i am sorry, which is what he did. he did it several times — is what he did. he did it several times. do — is what he did. he did it several times. ., .. , , is what he did. he did it several times. , ., is what he did. he did it several times. , ,., ., we are times. do accept his apology? we are where we are- — times. do accept his apology? we are where we are. do you _ times. do accept his apology? we are where we are. do you accept - times. do accept his apology? we are where we are. do you accept his - where we are. do you accept his a aoalo , where we are. do you accept his apology. you _ where we are. do you accept his apology. you don't _ where we are. do you accept his apology, you don't think- where we are. do you accept his apology, you don't think he - where we are. do you accept his i apology, you don't think he called the election when he shed? he phoned me on the saturday _ the election when he shed? he phoned me on the saturday following - the election when he shed? he phoned me on the saturday following the - me on the saturday following the election— me on the saturday following the election result and i said, i am going — election result and i said, i am going to — election result and i said, i am going to say up front, the election should _ going to say up front, the election should have been november. it would have given _ should have been november. it would have given another few months of a growing _ have given another few months of a growing economy. and give him the opportunity to show himself as prime minister— opportunity to show himself as prime minister for another six months, opportunity to show himself as prime ministerforanother six months, he minister for another six months, he would _ ministerforanother six months, he would have — ministerforanother six months, he would have had the nato summit. he would _ would have had the nato summit. he would have _ would have had the nato summit. he would have had the nato summit. he would have had the nato summit. he would have had the blenheim conference coming up this weekend. busy in _ conference coming up this weekend. busy in the — conference coming up this weekend. busy in the united states! it conference coming up this weekend. busy in the united states!— busy in the united states! it was an im aortant busy in the united states! it was an important consideration. _ busy in the united states! it was an important consideration. he - busy in the united states! it was an important consideration. he was .

important consideration. he was going _ important consideration. he was going to — important consideration. he was going to swan off to cover the elections _ going to swan off to cover the elections with his mate trump, instead — elections with his mate trump, instead of— elections with his mate trump, instead of which... elections with his mate trump, instead of which... are elections with his mate trump, instead of which. . ._ elections with his mate trump, instead of which. .. are the mps sor for instead of which. .. are the mps sorry for the — instead of which. .. are the mps sorry for the last _ instead of which. .. are the mps sorry for the last three - instead of which. .. are the mps sorry for the last three or - instead of which. .. are the mps sorry for the last three or four l sorry for the last three or four years— sorry for the last three or four years for— sorry for the last three or four years for lil— sorry for the last three or four years for liz truss _ sorry for the last three or four years for liz truss and - sorry for the last three or four years for liz truss and all - sorry for the last three or fourl years for liz truss and all that, the way— years for liz truss and all that, the way they— years for liz truss and all that, the way they got _ years for liz truss and all that, the way they got behind - years for liz truss and all that, the way they got behind some i years for liz truss and all that, i the way they got behind some of years for liz truss and all that, - the way they got behind some of the most reactionary— the way they got behind some of the most reactionary right—wing - most reactionary right—wing politics? _ most reactionary right—wing politics? l— most reactionary right-wing aolitics? , ., politics? i spoke with some of them and they said. _ politics? i spoke with some of them and they said, we _ politics? i spoke with some of them and they said, we didn't _ politics? i spoke with some of them and they said, we didn't help - and they said, we didn't help ourselves. i knew on the doorstep when _ ourselves. i knew on the doorstep when i _ ourselves. i knew on the doorstep when i was — ourselves. i knew on the doorstep when i was knocking on doorsteps talking _ when i was knocking on doorsteps talking to — when i was knocking on doorsteps talking to people, they said, hold on, talking to people, they said, hold on. you _ talking to people, they said, hold on, you said you are going to stop the boats— on, you said you are going to stop the boats and you haven't done that. you haven't— the boats and you haven't done that. you haven't sent anybody to rwanda. it you haven't sent anybody to rwanda. it was _ you haven't sent anybody to rwanda. it was a _ you haven't sent anybody to rwanda. it was a punishment election. the electorate — it was a punishment election. the electorate were _ it was a punishment election. the electorate were out _ it was a punishment election. the electorate were out to _ it was a punishment election. the electorate were out to punish - it was a punishment election. the | electorate were out to punish tory mps _ electorate were out to punish tory mps iti— electorate were out to punish tory mps. , ., electorate were out to punish tory mps. i. ., ., ~' electorate were out to punish tory mps. i. ., ., mps. if you look at the turnout, it was down — mps. if you look at the turnout, it was down 5% _ mps. if you look at the turnout, it was down 596 in _ mps. if you look at the turnout, it was down 596 in my _ mps. if you look at the turnout, it was down 596 in my patch. - mps. if you look at the turnout, it was down 596 in my patch. if- mps. if you look at the turnout, it was down 596 in my patch. if you i mps. if you look at the turnout, it. was down 596 in my patch. if you look was down 5% in my patch. if you look at the _ was down 5% in my patch. if you look at the share — was down 5% in my patch. if you look at the share of the vote for labour, 34%. _ at the share of the vote for labour, 34%. one _ at the share of the vote for labour, 34%. one of— at the share of the vote for labour, 34%, one of the lowest any party has ever had _ 34%, one of the lowest any party has ever had it— 3496, one of the lowest any party has ever had. , ., ., , ,., ever had. if they had not been so certain of winning, _ ever had. if they had not been so certain of winning, labour - ever had. if they had not been so certain of winning, labour would | certain of winning, labour would have _ certain of winning, labour would have got— certain of winning, labour would have got more _ certain of winning, labour would have got more. people - certain of winning, labour would have got more. people wanted l certain of winning, labour would i have got more. people wanted to punish _ have got more. people wanted to punish individual— have got more. people wanted to punish individual tory— have got more. people wanted to punish individual tory mps. - have got more. people wanted to punish individual tory mps. you i have got more. people wanted to punish individual tory mps. punish individualtory mps. you are riaht, punish individualtory mps. you are ri a ht, that punish individualtory mps. you are right. that is _ punish individualtory mps. you are right. that is why — punish individualtory mps. you are right, that is why 70 _ punish individualtory mps. you are right, that is why 70 odd _ punish individualtory mps. you are right, that is why 70 odd lib - punish individualtory mps. you are right, that is why 70 odd lib demsl right, that is why 70 odd lib dems won because they worked out who would _ won because they worked out who would he — won because they worked out who would be more likely to beat the tory and — would be more likely to beat the tory and they didn't care if it was labour— tory and they didn't care if it was labour or— tory and they didn't care if it was labour or lib dems, they went with them _ labour or lib dems, they went with

them and _ labour or lib dems, they went with them and that is why we suffered a colossal _ them and that is why we suffered a colossal defeat. people were bewildered as to why we went in july when _ bewildered as to why we went in july when they— bewildered as to why we went in july when they thought that november would _ when they thought that november would have been a much better date. you know. _ would have been a much better date. you know, some people... the would have been a much better date. you know, some people...— you know, some people... the date would not have _ you know, some people... the date would not have saved _ you know, some people... the date would not have saved you, - you know, some people... the date would not have saved you, it - you know, some people... the date would not have saved you, it might| would not have saved you, it might have saved — would not have saved you, it might have saved some _ would not have saved you, it might have saved some of— would not have saved you, it might have saved some of them - would not have saved you, it might have saved some of them but - would not have saved you, it might have saved some of them but not i would not have saved you, it might . have saved some of them but not the tory government _ have saved some of them but not the tory government l _ have saved some of them but not the tory government-— tory government. i think you're absolutely _ tory government. i think you're absolutely right _ tory government. i think you're absolutely right that _ tory government. i think you're absolutely right that my - tory government. i think you're absolutely right that my own i tory government. i think you're l absolutely right that my own view tory government. i think you're - absolutely right that my own view is at least _ absolutely right that my own view is at least 100 people would not have been in _ at least 100 people would not have been in that room tonight, wouldn't have lost— been in that room tonight, wouldn't have lost their seats. i do think that when— have lost their seats. i do think that when you argue for change, it was a _ that when you argue for change, it was a powerful argument. that when you argue for change, it was a powerfulargument. in that when you argue for change, it was a powerful argument. in the end, this is— was a powerful argument. in the end, this is what— was a powerful argument. in the end, this is what we got today.— this is what we got today. after the 14 new bills — this is what we got today. after the 14 new bills were _ this is what we got today. after the 14 new bills were read _ this is what we got today. after the 14 new bills were read out - this is what we got today. after the 14 new bills were read out by the i 14 new bills were read out by the king today, what is the mood in the labour party? king today, what is the mood in the labour party?— labour party? well, this was the first time in _ labour party? well, this was the first time in around _ labour party? well, this was the first time in around about - labour party? well, this was the first time in around about 20 - labour party? well, this was the i first time in around about 20 years you have seen a prime minister in such command of their party. —— 40 bills. you could literally see that, all those new labour mps crammed onto the government benches. on the conservative side, thinner spread of

mps because as nigel said, so many have lost their seats. the crucial thing is keir starmer is not all—powerful. so this king's speech was about what he can do, which is state intervention, and that is designed to help him in the areas where he can't do or he won't do things and that to have big spending, that is not going to happen now. so what does he need? he needs economic growth. the way he is doing that is through some pretty big state intervention, the national wealth fund build, around 7 billion of public money to help decarbonise industry, creating great british energy, that is a publicly owned company to create clean power by 2030 and then mick will know this off by heart, the passenger railway service bill. so that is going to put, as we said last night, rail companies into public ownership as the franchise ends or if they fail.

now, the reason he is having to do all of this is because he needs economic growth. why is the situation difficult? he has a very difficult fiscal inheritance from the conservatives, he would say, but also he has made two big decisions. keir starmer is not going to put up the main rates of income tax, vat or national insurance and he has decided effectively to inherit rachel reeves' debt plan, which is debt has to be falling as a share of gdp over the five year forecast period. if you have that, then the only way you can try and rebuild the public realm is through economic growth. public realm is through economic arowth. , , . public realm is through economic rowth.�* , ., public realm is through economic arowth. , ., ., growth. just a look at the spending--- _ growth. just a look at the spending... there - growth. just a look at the spending... there has . growth. just a look at the spending... there has to | growth. just a look at the i spending... there has to be growth. just a look at the - spending... there has to be a lot growth. just a look at the _ spending... there has to be a lot of growth _ spending... there has to be a lot of arowth. ~ , , spending... there has to be a lot of arowth. ~ , ., spending... there has to be a lot of arowth. ~ , , ., ., ., ., growth. absolutely to get an idea of the spending _ growth. absolutely to get an idea of the spending challenge, _ growth. absolutely to get an idea of the spending challenge, let's - growth. absolutely to get an idea of the spending challenge, let's look i the spending challenge, let's look at this graphic from institute for fiscal studies. this is the government plan rachel reeves is inheriting. doing a little more spending. tightening down on

non—doms, getting rid of the vat exemption on private school fees, that will raise a few billion but fundamentally the plan means, look at the first one in yellow. that is staying in the period 2024—25— 28-29. staying in the period 2024—25— 28—29. day—to—day public spending will rise by 1%. in the protected areas, that is nhs, defence, schools, aid and childcare, that will rise by 2%, although the iss reckons it will be about 2.9. but look at the final one in blue, the unprotected areas, brackets, everything else, that is due to go down by one in blue, the unprotected areas, brackets, everything else, thatis areas, brackets, everything else, that is due to go down by 1.9%. the ifa says it will be down by 3.5%. that is not great for a labour government and the only way they can get out of that is by growing the economy. get out of that is by growing the econom . , , get out of that is by growing the econom ., , , ., .., ., get out of that is by growing the econom ., , , ., ., ., economy. just before we came on air i s-oke to economy. just before we came on air i spoke to the _ economy. just before we came on air i spoke to the minister _ economy. just before we came on air i spoke to the minister responsible i i spoke to the minister responsible for getting the 40 bills into law, lucy powell and i asked her about public sector pay, including teachers' pay because a decision on pay as do at the end of the month.

after adjusting for inflation, pay for teachers is 9% lower than it was in 2010. that's 9% lower. i asked lucy powell if she would want to become a teacher if the government didn't restore pay to at least what it was 14 years ago. public sector pay has been a big issue over recent years, and that's why we've seen such high levels of industrial action for teachers and in the health service. it's been a big part of the problem that's facing our public services. they're not legislative matters, so they're not, wouldn't be in a king's speech today. but there obviously are public pay bodies that look into these things. they make recommendations to the government. and we will look at those as they come about. but i mean, obviously, retention of teachers, we're looking to recruit more teachers, that's a clear manifesto commitment. and as the king's speech set out today, we will be adding vat on private school fees to recruit more teachers. but there's no point recruiting more teachers, as you say, if there are still many more

than you're recruiting leaving the profession. so it's a really simple question. it's actually about you. would you want to work as a teacher on pay that is 9% lower than it was in 2010? well, i'm not a teacher. i probably wouldn't. but, you know, my husband's a doctor. obviously, he'sjust had a pay settlement. and, you know, he had been working longer for less for a long time as a doctor. and it is a challenge. that is why people are leaving these professions. and it's one of the many crises and many big difficulties that we're inheriting in the country, in the economy, in our public services, that we face at the moment. the planning and infrastructure bill was announced today. it's what you hope will get the country building and you hope will lead to better than forecast growth. have you ever objected to the building of housing in your own constituency? well, actually, i haven't, but that's not the point. um, and in my, and in my...

i think you have. i don't think i have. you've objected to a student development in your constituency. that one, i did, yeah, the student development. yes, idid. for three years. yeah. including, and you backed a local residents group called block the block. yes, so that student development i did, butjust to put that into context, in my constituency, i mean, the boundaries have changed slightly, we've had about 40,000 new homes built over the course of my time of being an mp, and then another 40—50,000 due to be built, and they're part of a strategic local plan in general. and that's the sort of planning that we want to see speeded up, where you've got strategic local plans that have that local consent, that build in areas where people want to see them. where there are inappropriate, where there are inappropriate and poorly devised plans, of course, there will be some... well, that word inappropriate is going to be doing a lot of heavy lifting, isn't it? because the point of me pointing that out to you, which you'd forgotten about, and... only because in the context

of there being 40,000 new homes... sure, fair enough, i hearyou. more than any other constituency, which i've been thrilled to see. i hear you, but the point is, why should voters trust what you're saying now about building homes when, at a local level, you and many of your colleagues who are constituency mps, have objected to developments locally when you consider them to be, quote, inappropriate? yeah, because we are, look, first of all we are unashamedly pro house—building. we need to build... except not when it's inappropriate. hang on a minute, let me finish the point. we need to build 1.5 million new homes of all different types, affordable council and others over the course of this parliament. what we are not calling for is a developer free for all, where there are speculative developments that are taking place in the wrong place at the wrong time. we want strategic local plans where local people have designed them. local communities come together and they're building these big plans, meeting the targets that we've

already changed in government. and that's how we can see this house building regime that we want to see. and just for our audience to say that, that, the thing that you objected to was turning a disused pub into student accommodation. well, it was very high. it was, not just a, it was a huge high rise. so it was more about the height really than the overall plan. you announced a task force today on child poverty. the work and pensions secretary, liz kendall, tweeted that she was holding a meeting with experts and campaigners on child poverty to start work immediately on a new, ambitious child poverty strategy, and the prime minister said it would leave no stone unturned. starting work immediately, leaving no stone unturned. surely that means lifting the two—child benefit cap? well, we're going to look at everything in a child poverty strategy. we are a labour government. we are committed to reducing child poverty. that's core to what we are about. and there are a whole range of issues that

impact on child poverty, from housing to sure start centres. early years support, education, costs of energy bills, uniform, parents being in work, in decent—paid, secure work. there are a whole range of issues that impact on child poverty. all the seven organisations that liz kendall convened at that meeting, all of them, they all say, lift the cap. save the children, for example, "the most cost effective way to reduce child poverty, lift the two child benefit cap." well, look, one of the reasons we didn't have that commitment in our manifesto and we didn't, so people were clear about what our position was on that, was because we've got to actually make sure that the fiscal position is a solid one, and that the sums add up. because i tell you now that the single biggest factor on child poverty in this country is when the economy crashes. we saw it after the economy crashed, the global crash and the austerity that followed. we saw it after the liz truss mini budget.

and when the economy crashes, it's not people like you and me more comfortable that pay the price because we can withstand it. evidence is really clear that pushes up hundreds of thousands into child poverty. and that's why we won't play fast and loose with the economy and with the fiscal position. you could choose, with your fiscal rules, you could choose to fund this now. it's incredibly expensive. yeah, but, you could choose to fund it if you wanted to. it's clearly not a priority because you haven't chosen to fund it. if you lifted it now, you would take half a million kids out of poverty now, today. everything we do has got to be fully costed. so if you are going to find... you could have fully costed that. well, we would have to raise the money elsewhere if we were doing that. and that's why we said before the election that we wouldn't be doing it. but we will, over time, reduce child poverty. that will be a key part of what a labour government and this labour government is all about. over time.

now, in the election campaign, you offered change to voters. you promised change. when will kids in poverty actually experience that change? well, over time. there's a whole range of things. that's what this task force will be looking at. and there are a whole... so you're going to make them wait. there are a whole range of, look, we're inheriting a really dire economic situation here. we're inheriting huge crises. as you said... you could have chosen to put less in the national wealth fund. as you were saying earlier, we are inheriting a crisis of teacher retention and recruitment. we're inheriting a huge crisis in the health service, which will be keeping some of these children's parents out of work because they'll be sick from work, because they can't get the treatment on the nhs they need. you know, there are a huge number of things that are incredibly costly that we are inheriting, and we've got to make those sums add up. you can't compare it to the national wealth fund because that's

an investment programme. so that's about, you know, putting money into invest that, over time, you then get back. it's not the same as day—to—day spending. so that wouldn't, that fits on our fiscal rules in a way that this wouldn't. thank you very much for talking to newsnight. thank you, lucy powell. nigel evans, more than 4 million children in poverty. or 30% of all children in the uk. at the end of 14 years of tory government, you can't be proud of that. �* ., , ., ., government, you can't be proud of that. �* ., ., ., , that. i'm not proud of any youngsters _ that. i'm not proud of any youngsters who _ that. i'm not proud of any youngsters who are - that. i'm not proud of any youngsters who are living | that. i'm not proud of any l youngsters who are living in that. i'm not proud of any _ youngsters who are living in poverty whatsoever. i think it all comes down to the fact that extra money has been provided in different ways to support families. this pay cap on the two youngsters it's fascinating the two youngsters it's fascinating the labour party did not put it in their manifesto and the fact is lucy powell has just said they are not going to lift that either. lasting

going to lift that either. why is that fascinating? _ going to lift that either. why is that fascinating? it's _ going to lift that either. why is| that fascinating? it's fascinating because it's _ that fascinating? it's fascinating because it's basically _ that fascinating? it's fascinating because it's basically consistentj because it's basically consistent with the line my government took, they're not moving away from that and it's only if you get a growing economy, and with it to see, with all the legislative changes and telecom i would say this, we lost the election, the government has been punished and chucked out and i wish this new labour government well in its ambition for the country and want to see my country doing well. i know most people say, let's see what they do in the first hundred days and governments are judged in 100 days but let'sjust days and governments are judged in 100 days but let's just see what they can do with this legislative programme for the i know the intention is right that the devil is intention is right that the devil is in the detail in a lot of this. we will see if the economy grows. i5 in the detail in a lot of this. we will see if the economy grows. is a will see if the economy grows. is a u-turn coming _ will see if the economy grows. is a u-turn coming on _ will see if the economy grows. is a u—turn coming on the to benefit cap? i don't have a make it work because two thirds _ i don't have a make it work because two thirds of — i don't have a make it work because two thirds of these people are in work— two thirds of these people are in work and — two thirds of these people are in work and what that means is that people _ work and what that means is that people are — work and what that means is that people are not being paid the full rate for— people are not being paid the full rate for the work they're doing.

what _ rate for the work they're doing. what we're doing is subsidising employers who are pushing forward low pay~ _ employers who are pushing forward low pay. employers have to pay the ti l ht low pay. employers have to pay the right amount of money, you get a growing _ right amount of money, you get a growing economy by paying the workers — growing economy by paying the workers the right amount so they are not on _ workers the right amount so they are not on benefits and not having to get free — not on benefits and not having to get free school meals and having to use food _ get free school meals and having to use food banks. that's what it's about — use food banks. that's what it's about. ~ . , ., about. wasting that with the living wa a e. about. wasting that with the living wage. the employers _ about. wasting that with the living wage. the employers tell - about. wasting that with the living wage. the employers tell us - about. wasting that with the living wage. the employers tell us that i wage. the employers tell us that will make them _ wage. the employers tell us that will make them go _ wage. the employers tell us that will make them go bust, that - wage. the employers tell us that i will make them go bust, that equal rights _ will make them go bust, that equal rights from day one or make them go bust _ rights from day one or make them go bust. that _ rights from day one or make them go bust. that i _ rights from day one or make them go bust, that i can't afford to live in this economy point of the rich said that as _ this economy point of the rich said that as soon as they get taxed, they will leave _ that as soon as they get taxed, they will leave the country and take all their wealth away and then tell us they are _ their wealth away and then tell us they are patriots. people have to pay their— they are patriots. people have to pay their taxes on good wages. good wages _ pay their taxes on good wages. good wages will— pay their taxes on good wages. good wages will lift people out of property and we won't have the benefits — property and we won't have the benefits bill we have now. that has been _ benefits bill we have now. that has been a _ benefits bill we have now. that has been a 40—year problem since thatcher— been a 40—year problem since thatcher first got elected, that we put people out of work and then we pay them _ put people out of work and then we pay them benefits and then within the benefit bill is to break point of the _ the benefit bill is to break point of the employers have to play their part. _ of the employers have to play their part. they — of the employers have to play their part, they have to pay people

properly— part, they have to pay people properly and get people off benefits, paying their own way pond that is _ benefits, paying their own way pond that is what the living weight is all about— that is what the living weight is all about and it's been a great success — all about and it's been a great success. it was resisted by employers all the way. it success. it was resisted by employers all the way. it may well have been by _ employers all the way. it may well have been by the _ employers all the way. it may well have been by the government - employers all the way. it may well. have been by the government didn't listen because they kept putting it up. listen because they kept putting it u ._ �* listen because they kept putting it u . _ . . ., , listen because they kept putting it u-.�* the listen because they kept putting it up-_ the cap - listen because they kept putting it up-_ the cap is - listen because they kept putting it up-_ the cap is to - listen because they kept putting it| up._ the cap is to go, up. and the cap? the cap is to go, as soon as — up. and the cap? the cap is to go, as soon as possible, _ up. and the cap? the cap is to go, as soon as possible, they - up. and the cap? the cap is to go, as soon as possible, they have - up. and the cap? the cap is to go, as soon as possible, they have to l as soon as possible, they have to find a _ as soon as possible, they have to find a way— as soon as possible, they have to find a way to do it. because they are condemning people to a cycle of poverty _ are condemning people to a cycle of poverty it _ are condemning people to a cycle of poverty. it also means people can go to work— poverty. it also means people can go to work properly. what we need to do is enable _ to work properly. what we need to do is enable people to go to work to a good _ is enable people to go to work to a good living — is enable people to go to work to a good living wage so they can pay their— good living wage so they can pay their rent— good living wage so they can pay their rent and mortgages, get their kids shoes — their rent and mortgages, get their kids shoes and buy a loaf of bread. because _ kids shoes and buy a loaf of bread. because the best way of a property... because the best way of a property- - -_ because the best way of a aro ae �* , ., property... i'm 'ust wondering whethera— property... i'm 'ust wondering whether a big — property... i'mjust wondering whether a big majority, - property... i'mjust wondering whether a big majority, when| property... i'm just wondering | whether a big majority, when it comes to budget, maybe this is the opportunity when some labour mps may start to rebel, so having a huge majority... start to rebel, so having a huge majority- - -_ start to rebel, so having a huge ma'ori ,, ., ., ., majority... starmer may want that rebellion early _ majority... starmer may want that rebellion early so _ majority... starmer may want that rebellion early so we _ majority... starmer may want that rebellion early so we can - majority... starmer may want that rebellion early so we can defend i majority... starmer may want that| rebellion early so we can defend it. they will— rebellion early so we can defend it. they will be interesting to see what they do. they will be interesting to see what the do. , ., ., , they will be interesting to see what

the do. , ., .,' ., they do. they have offered a commission _ they do. they have offered a commission or _ they do. they have offered a commission or a _ they do. they have offered a commission or a working - they do. they have offered a i commission or a working group, that's— commission or a working group, that's not— commission or a working group, that's not going to get anybody a loaf of— that's not going to get anybody a loaf of bread on friday. they need the benefits to be sorted out. when you do _ the benefits to be sorted out. when you do the — the benefits to be sorted out. when you do the benefits you can sort out for a _ you do the benefits you can sort out for a commission how you get people in from _ for a commission how you get people in from low—paid workers to for a commission how you get people in from low— paid workers to better paid work— in from low— paid workers to better paid work and move them on. rishi sunak, as leader of the opposition, had to respond to the king's speech, and he also demonstrated he can make the commons laugh. on the government benches, life comes at you fast. soon, you might be fortunate enough to be tapped on the shoulder and offered a junior ministerial role. then you'll find yourself attending cabinet. then, in the cabinet. and then, when the prime minister's position becomes untenable, you might... laughter. ..you might end up being called to the highest office. mick lynch laughed at that, nigel evans, where you laughing with rishi sunak? blot evans, where you laughing with rishi sunak? ., . ., , , , sunak? not particularly because it is still raw for _ sunak? not particularly because it is still raw for people _ sunak? not particularly because it is still raw for people like -

sunak? not particularly because it is still raw for people like myself i is still raw for people like myself after 32 years but i also felt sorry for a number of my colleagues who only after four and for a number of my colleagues who only afterfour and a for a number of my colleagues who only after four and a half years have been chucked out, and listen, i'm on a pension, i'm 66, victoria! i'm on a pension, i'm 66, victoria! i know you're thinking surely not that it's all the make—up you do downstairs! but the fact is i'm ok. are not asking this flippantly, you met with these 120 or so, some stood down or lost their seats, did people shed tears? blot down or lost their seats, did people shed tears?— shed tears? not tonight, no, buti remember— shed tears? not tonight, no, buti remember talking _ shed tears? not tonight, no, buti remember talking to _ shed tears? not tonight, no, buti remember talking to one - shed tears? not tonight, no, buti remember talking to one shortly i remember talking to one shortly after the election and he said, could be by christmas. and i know people will not get violins out... but i tell you what, people were making plans. and i suspect when you're on a majority of 20,000, the last thing you thought was up and you would lose yourjob.— you would lose your 'ob. and the atmosphere h you would lose your 'ob. and the atmosphere among _ you would lose yourjob. and the atmosphere among some - you would lose yourjob. and the atmosphere among some of - you would lose yourjob. and the atmosphere among some of the | atmosphere among some of the remaining — atmosphere among some of the remaining conservative - atmosphere among some of the remaining conservative mps - atmosphere among some of the remaining conservative mps is i atmosphere among some of the - remaining conservative mps is pretty gloomy. _ remaining conservative mps is pretty gloomy. one — remaining conservative mps is pretty gloomy, one former— remaining conservative mps is pretty gloomy, one former minister- remaining conservative mps is pretty gloomy, one former minister said, i gloomy, one former minister said, guoting _ gloomy, one former minister said, quoting the — gloomy, one former minister said, quoting the bible, _ gloomy, one former minister said, quoting the bible, the _ gloomy, one former minister said, quoting the bible, the living - gloomy, one former minister said, quoting the bible, the living are i

quoting the bible, the living are ending — quoting the bible, the living are ending the _ quoting the bible, the living are ending the dead. _ quoting the bible, the living are ending the dead. fire _ quoting the bible, the living are ending the dead.— quoting the bible, the living are ending the dead. are they going to ao to the ending the dead. are they going to go to the right? — ending the dead. are they going to go to the right? is _ ending the dead. are they going to go to the right? is the _ ending the dead. are they going to go to the right? is the danger for. go to the right? is the danger for the tories — go to the right? is the danger for the tories-— go to the right? is the danger for the tories. ~ . ., ., ., the tories. where are about to go throuah the tories. where are about to go through this _ the tories. where are about to go through this beauty _ the tories. where are about to go through this beauty contest, - the tories. where are about to go through this beauty contest, and l through this beauty contest, and they got to get it right. that got to get it right and establish trust again with the electorate. we certainly didn't do that at the general election and anybody who thinks, we have won a 21 mp5, as low as you can get, forget it, there is as you can get, forget it, there is a basement and if we don't get this beauty contest right, they'll soon discover... beauty contest right, they'll soon discover---_ beauty contest right, they'll soon discover---— beauty contest right, they'll soon discover. . . discover... they won't get it right with the people — discover... they won't get it right with the people you _ discover... they won't get it right with the people you have - discover... they won't get it right i with the people you have standing. they will— with the people you have standing. they will all be ultra—right. they will all be ultra-right. keir starmer said _ they will all be ultra-right. keir starmer said the _ they will all be ultra—right. ila: " starmer said the outcome of they will all be ultra—right. ii2 " starmer said the outcome of the snake oil charm of populism may sound similar to botrytis into the dead and a further division and greater disappointment. as mick lynch said, one of the debates in the tory party is whether to embrace some of that populism so would be that the way to go in your view? i always used to say underjohn major, we tried unpopular and then popular on the whole i preferred popular. don't think you end up having to upset the electorate necessarily. i

hear what mick is saying as far as the new leader, they will from the right, priti patel, isaw her today and it looks like she is on... right, priti patel, i saw her today and it looks like she is on... brava man tom — and it looks like she is on... brava man tom to _ and it looks like she is on... brava man tom to grant, _ and it looks like she is on. .. brava man tom to grant, you'll- and it looks like she is on... brava man tom to grant, you'll get - man tom to grant, you'll get crushed _ man tom to grant, you'll get crushed |_ man tom to grant, you'll get crushed. ., ., man tom to grant, you'll get crushed-— man tom to grant, you'll get crushed. ., ., ., , ., crushed. i want to hear the vision of whoever _ crushed. i want to hear the vision of whoever they _ crushed. i want to hear the vision of whoever they happen - crushed. i want to hear the vision of whoever they happen to - crushed. i want to hear the vision of whoever they happen to be, i i crushed. i want to hear the vision - of whoever they happen to be, i want to hear how they will establish the trust. i don't want to see them lurching into the territory already occupied by the reform party and to the left eye the point i want to see them going to the very centre and offering the public what they need but also, when you promise it you deliver it. ~ ., ., , ., but also, when you promise it you deliver it. ~ ., ., ~' �* deliver it. who do you like? don't the are deliver it. who do you like? don't they are going — deliver it. who do you like? don't they are going to _ deliver it. who do you like? don't they are going to give _ deliver it. who do you like? don't they are going to give you - deliver it. who do you like? don't| they are going to give you names. i'm not going to give you names, victoria! ~ ., ., , ., i'm not going to give you names, victoria! ~ ., ., i. ~' i'm not going to give you names, victoria! ~ ., ., i. ~ victoria! who do you like the look of? i 'ust victoria! who do you like the look of? i just want — victoria! who do you like the look of? i just want to _ victoria! who do you like the look of? i just want to see _ victoria! who do you like the look of? i just want to see what - victoria! who do you like the look of? i just want to see what the i of? i just want to see what the vision is. _ of? i just want to see what the vision is. i _ of? i just want to see what the vision is, i want _ of? i just want to see what the vision is, i want to _ of? i just want to see what the vision is, i want to hear- of? i just want to see what the vision is, i want to hear what i of? i just want to see what the i vision is, i want to hear what they say. i want to hear what they say i will listening very carefully. flan will listening very carefully. can

be b the will listening very carefully. can be by the mud. _ will listening very carefully. can be by the mud, tom tugendhat... you