before night comes on, to cover the grieving and the dead. fergal keane, bbc news, jerusalem. this programme continues on bbc one.

the prime minister suspends seven of his mps for voting against the government on the tour child benefit cap. government on the tour child benefit ca, l l, government on the tour child benefit ca . _ l l, l, , , government on the tour child benefit cap. what does it tell us about how keir starmer _ cap. what does it tell us about how keir starmer will _ cap. what does it tell us about how keir starmer will govern? - cap. what does it tell us about how keir starmer will govern? and - cap. what does it tell us about how| keir starmer will govern? and male violence against women and girls is a national emergency, say police. is it an epidemic? good evening and welcome to newsnight — live each weeknight with interviews and insight. tonight, on the day that a new report says male violence against women and girls is a national emergency, we're going to talk live to two women who have experiences to share with you. natalie fleet is a

newly—elected labour mp. she was groomed and raped when she was 15 and became pregnant. she is waiving her right to anonymity to speak to you tonight. also with us — alison, who wishes to remain anonymous. she was deceived into a five—year relationship by an undercover met police officer. we will speak to both of them in a little while. your panel this evening — two mayors... the labour mayor of greater manchester, andy burnham, and the conservative mayor of tees valley, lord ben houchen. welcome all of you to newsnight. we will start with what happened in the commons tonight over the two child benefit cap. commons tonight over the two child benefit ca -. ,, commons tonight over the two child benefit ca. ,, ., commons tonight over the two child benefit cap-— commons tonight over the two child benefit cap. seven labour mps have had leaflets — benefit cap. seven labour mps have had leaflets suspended _ benefit cap. seven labour mps have had leaflets suspended from - benefit cap. seven labour mps have i had leaflets suspended from them for six months and let's have a look at those seven mps. so we have ian burns, we have imran hussain,

interestingly we havejohn mcdonald interestingly we have john mcdonald who was the shadow chancellor under jeremy corbyn, something of a father figure for the socialist campaign group, rebecca long bailey who was defeated in the leadership contest, richard burgin who was a prominent frontbencher underjeremy corbyn and frontbencher under jeremy corbyn and we frontbencher underjeremy corbyn and we have zarah sultana. within minutes of defying the labour whip they received a letter from the government chief whip saying i have suspended the work for six months. i'm going to look at your performance over the next six months but during that six months you are still bound by the labour whip, you still bound by the labour whip, you still need to vote with us and then we will decide what to do. what the rebels were saying afterwards as they are numbers were much higher than that because in all, in addition to the seven, there were 41 abstentions, labour mps not voting with the government. what government sources are saying is they were

perfectly good reasons why some labour mps were not voting, quite a high level of covid, but there was some humour among the rebels afterwards and they said the reason why they want is back after six months as all the indications from keir starmer are that he might move on this so he will need their votes but we vote this way when it is government policy.— but we vote this way when it is government policy. let's talk to andy burnham. _ government policy. let's talk to andy burnham. your _ government policy. let's talk to andy burnham. your reaction i government policy. let's talk to i andy burnham. your reaction to government policy. let's talk to - andy burnham. your reaction to the suspension of these seven labour mps? i suspension of these seven labour mps? ., ., . ., mps? i am on the record in the sa in: mps? i am on the record in the saying that _ mps? i am on the record in the saying that i strongly _ mps? i am on the record in the saying that i strongly support l mps? i am on the record in the l saying that i strongly support the removal— saying that i strongly support the removal of the two child cap. i see the evidence of the harm it does in greater_ the evidence of the harm it does in greater manchester. we have 5000 homeless _ greater manchester. we have 5000 homeless families, 6500 kids in temporary accommodation, so the evidence _ temporary accommodation, so the evidence is plain that it really does — evidence is plain that it really does cause great harm. that said and there _ does cause great harm. that said and there is— does cause great harm. that said and there is a _ does cause great harm. that said and there is a that said coming here, this government has less than three weeks _ this government has less than three weeks in _

this government has less than three weeks in and it has a pretty terrible _ weeks in and it has a pretty terrible economic inheritance and i do think— terrible economic inheritance and i do think they need to be given time and space _ do think they need to be given time and space to be able to look at things— and space to be able to look at things in— and space to be able to look at things in the round and come up with their plan— things in the round and come up with their plan to — things in the round and come up with their plan to reduce child poverty as they— their plan to reduce child poverty as they said they will do. i would say at _ as they said they will do. i would say at this— as they said they will do. i would say at this stage of the emphasis should _ say at this stage of the emphasis should he — say at this stage of the emphasis should be on unity and giving the government that space to bring forward — government that space to bring forward their thinking. interesting that ou forward their thinking. interesting that you say _ forward their thinking. interesting that you say unity _ forward their thinking. interesting that you say unity when _ forward their thinking. interesting that you say unity when sir - forward their thinking. interesting that you say unity when sir keir i that you say unity when sir keir starmer has suspended those mps but must have known what they were doing. suella braverman wants to lift the two child benefit cap, do you? i lift the two child benefit cap, do ou? ., �* ~' lift the two child benefit cap, do ou? ., �* ,, ., you? i don't think so and if you look at the _ you? i don't think so and if you look at the polling _ you? i don't think so and if you look at the polling in _ you? i don't think so and if you look at the polling in the - you? i don't think so and if you look at the polling in the data | you? i don't think so and if you i look at the polling in the data on this the — look at the polling in the data on this the public generally support keeping — this the public generally support keeping the child benefit cap because if you look at places like deeside — because if you look at places like deeside and other parts of the north of england _ deeside and other parts of the north of england it is about fairness. lots— of england it is about fairness. lots of— of england it is about fairness. lots of families on my part of the world _ lots of families on my part of the world think— lots of families on my part of the world think long and hard about having — world think long and hard about having a — world think long and hard about having a single child and we all know— having a single child and we all know it — having a single child and we all know it is — having a single child and we all know it is difficult, i have just had my— know it is difficult, i have just had my first and it is not cheap and something — had my first and it is not cheap and something people think about really

carefully. _ something people think about really carefully, and the fairness issue as there _ carefully, and the fairness issue as there are _ carefully, and the fairness issue as there are those families with one or sometimes — there are those families with one or sometimes none or maybe two who were previously _ sometimes none or maybe two who were previously subsidising those with more _ previously subsidising those with more children and ultimately it is a financial— more children and ultimately it is a financial issue but it is one of fairness — financial issue but it is one of fairness and one that seems to be supported — fairness and one that seems to be supported by the nation. it is an issue of fairness, _ supported by the nation. it is an issue of fairness, what - supported by the nation. it is an issue of fairness, what do - supported by the nation. it is an issue of fairness, what do you i supported by the nation. it is an . issue of fairness, what do you see? i don't think it is ever good policy to take _ i don't think it is ever good policy to take things _ i don't think it is ever good policy to take things out _ i don't think it is ever good policy to take things out on _ i don't think it is ever good policy to take things out on children - i don't think it is ever good policy| to take things out on children and to take things out on children and to put— to take things out on children and to put them — to take things out on children and to put them into _ to take things out on children and to put them into poverty. - to take things out on children and to put them into poverty. the - to take things out on children and j to put them into poverty. the one thing _ to put them into poverty. the one thing we — to put them into poverty. the one thing we do — to put them into poverty. the one thing we do know— to put them into poverty. the one thing we do know is— to put them into poverty. the one thing we do know is that - to put them into poverty. the one thing we do know is that it- to put them into poverty. the one thing we do know is that it is- to put them into poverty. the one thing we do know is that it is not. thing we do know is that it is not their— thing we do know is that it is not their fault — thing we do know is that it is not their fault. we _ thing we do know is that it is not their fault. we should _ thing we do know is that it is not their fault. we should support. thing we do know is that it is not| their fault. we should support all children — their fault. we should support all children i— their fault. we should support all children. i remember— their fault. we should support all children. i remember going- their fault. we should support all children. i remember going back| their fault. we should support all. children. i remember going back to the 70s _ children. i remember going back to the 70s when — children. i remember going back to the 70s when i _ children. i remember going back to the 70s when i was _ children. i remember going back to the 70s when i was growing - children. i remember going back to the 70s when i was growing up - children. i remember going back to the 70s when i was growing up and j children. i remember going back to. the 70s when i was growing up and my mum got— the 70s when i was growing up and my mum got child — the 70s when i was growing up and my mum got child benefit _ the 70s when i was growing up and my mum got child benefit in _ the 70s when i was growing up and my mum got child benefit in respect - the 70s when i was growing up and my mum got child benefit in respect of. mum got child benefit in respect of every— mum got child benefit in respect of every child — mum got child benefit in respect of every child because _ mum got child benefit in respect of every child because that _ mum got child benefit in respect of every child because that was - mum got child benefit in respect of every child because that was an - every child because that was an important — every child because that was an important principle, _ every child because that was an important principle, that- important principle, that every child _ important principle, that every child needs _ important principle, that every child needs a _ important principle, that every child needs a basic— important principle, that every child needs a basic level- important principle, that every child needs a basic level of - important principle, that every- child needs a basic level of support when _ child needs a basic level of support when growing _ child needs a basic level of support when growing up _ child needs a basic level of support when growing up i_ child needs a basic level of support when growing up. i think— child needs a basic level of support when growing up. i think this- child needs a basic level of support| when growing up. i think this policy was brought— when growing up. i think this policy was brought into _ when growing up. i think this policy was brought into posture in- when growing up. i think this policy was brought into posture in front. when growing up. i think this policyj was brought into posture in front of certain— was brought into posture in front of certain newspapers. _ was brought into posture in front of certain newspapers. the _ was brought into posture in front ofl certain newspapers. the bottom line is it does— certain newspapers. the bottom line is it does cause _ certain newspapers. the bottom line is it does cause huge _ certain newspapers. the bottom line is it does cause huge hardship, - certain newspapers. the bottom line is it does cause huge hardship, as i. is it does cause huge hardship, as i said _ is it does cause huge hardship, as i said 6500 — is it does cause huge hardship, as i said. 6500 children _ is it does cause huge hardship, as i

said. 6500 children in _ is it does cause huge hardship, as i said. 6500 children in temporary. said. 6500 children in temporary accommodation. _ said. 6500 children in temporary accommodation. i— said. 6500 children in temporary accommodation. i bet— said. 6500 children in temporary accommodation. i bet the - said. 6500 children in temporaryj accommodation. i bet the figures said. 6500 children in temporary. accommodation. i bet the figures in tees valley— accommodation. i bet the figures in tees valley are _ accommodation. i bet the figures in tees valley are similar _ accommodation. i bet the figures in tees valley are similar given - accommodation. i bet the figures in tees valley are similar given the i tees valley are similar given the scale _ tees valley are similar given the scale of— tees valley are similar given the scale of the _ tees valley are similar given the scale of the population. - tees valley are similar given the scale of the population. that- tees valley are similar given the scale of the population. that is. tees valley are similar given the . scale of the population. that is not a good _ scale of the population. that is not a good situation _ scale of the population. that is not a good situation and _ scale of the population. that is not a good situation and that _ scale of the population. that is not a good situation and that is- a good situation and that is something _ a good situation and that is something i_ a good situation and that is something i don't- a good situation and that is something i don't think - a good situation and that is something i don't think we | a good situation and that is- something i don't think we have seen in this— something i don't think we have seen in this country— something i don't think we have seen in this country before, _ something i don't think we have seen in this country before, that _ something i don't think we have seen in this country before, that level - in this country before, that level of children— in this country before, that level of children homeless _ in this country before, that level of children homeless in - in this country before, that level of children homeless in pretty. of children homeless in pretty appalling _ of children homeless in pretty appalling living _ of children homeless in pretty appalling living conditions. . of children homeless in pretty| appalling living conditions. we of children homeless in pretty- appalling living conditions. we have -ot appalling living conditions. we have got to— appalling living conditions. we have got to do— appalling living conditions. we have got to do something _ appalling living conditions. we have got to do something to _ appalling living conditions. we have got to do something to lift - appalling living conditions. we have got to do something to lift them - appalling living conditions. we have| got to do something to lift them out of that _ got to do something to lift them out of that. ., , got to do something to lift them out of that. . , , ., of that. that is the message to the current prime _ of that. that is the message to the current prime minister. _ of that. that is the message to the current prime minister. the - of that. that is the message to the current prime minister. the i - of that. that is the message to the current prime minister. the i fs i current prime minister. the i fs say if you lifted this cap it would lift immediately something like 11% of kids out of poverty overnight. it feels like we are walking into the twilight— feels like we are walking into the twilight zone because i am not here to defend _ twilight zone because i am not here to defend the labour party. | twilight zone because i am not here to defend the labour party. itold to defend the labour party. i told ou about to defend the labour party. i told you about the _ to defend the labour party. i told you about the principle. - to defend the labour party. i told you about the principle. it - to defend the labour party. i told you about the principle. it is - you about the principle. it is obvious to your government that brought a ten and 2017. it is interesting _ brought a ten and 2017. it is interesting we _ brought a ten and 2017. it is interesting we have - brought a ten and 2017. it is interesting we have a - brought a ten and 2017. it is interesting we have a labour party that have — interesting we have a labour party that have suspended seven of its mps and keeping that cap and it is a really— and keeping that cap and it is a really interesting dynamic for the labour— really interesting dynamic for the labour party because keir starmer has come — labour party because keir starmer has come in — labour party because keir starmer has come in and i think has got himself— has come in and i think has got himself into a very strong position in the _ himself into a very strong position in the short— himself into a very strong position in the short term with the labour party— in the short term with the labour party and — in the short term with the labour party and now we have andy burnham

who i_ party and now we have andy burnham who i respect greatly and other mps who i respect greatly and other mps who are openly saying the prime minister— who are openly saying the prime minister has got this wrong, but are somehow— minister has got this wrong, but are somehow trying to square a circle by saying _ somehow trying to square a circle by saying it _ somehow trying to square a circle by saying it is _ somehow trying to square a circle by saying it isjustified in terms of unity — saying it isjustified in terms of unity. eitherthey saying it isjustified in terms of unity. either they got elected on a massive _ unity. either they got elected on a massive majority for change and at the moment we haven't changed anything — the moment we haven't changed anything but don't worry we will change — anything but don't worry we will change it— anything but don't worry we will change it at some point in the future, — change it at some point in the future, i— change it at some point in the future, i am change it at some point in the future, lam not change it at some point in the future, i am not sure if that's what people _ future, i am not sure if that's what people expect. i future, i am not sure if that's what people “pect— future, i am not sure if that's what people expect. i didn't actually say that, did i? — people expect. i didn't actually say that, did i? the _ people expect. i didn't actually say that, did i? the government has . people expect. i didn't actually say i that, did i? the government has got a commitment — that, did i? the government has got a commitment to _ that, did i? the government has got a commitment to bring _ that, did i? the government has got a commitment to bring forward - that, did i? the government has got a commitment to bring forward a - a commitment to bring forward a child _ a commitment to bring forward a child poverty— a commitment to bring forward a child poverty strategy, _ a commitment to bring forward a child poverty strategy, that - a commitment to bring forward a child poverty strategy, that was. child poverty strategy, that was made _ child poverty strategy, that was made very— child poverty strategy, that was made very early— child poverty strategy, that was made very early on. _ child poverty strategy, that was made very early on. i _ child poverty strategy, that was made very early on. i said - made very early on. i said they should — made very early on. i said they should be _ made very early on. i said they should be given _ made very early on. i said they should be given time _ made very early on. i said they should be given time and - made very early on. i said they i should be given time and space to bring _ should be given time and space to bring forward _ should be given time and space to bring forward their— should be given time and space to bring forward their plan. - should be given time and space to bring forward their plan. they- should be given time and space toi bring forward their plan. they have a very— bring forward their plan. they have a very difficult _ bring forward their plan. they have a very difficult economic _ a very difficult economic inheritance _ a very difficult economic inheritance from - a very difficult economic inheritance from the - a very difficult economic - inheritance from the previous government— inheritance from the previous government so— inheritance from the previous government so that - inheritance from the previous government so that is - inheritance from the previous government so that is what l inheritance from the previous government so that is what i | government so that is what i actually— government so that is what i actually said _ government so that is what i actually said and _ government so that is what i actually said and it _ government so that is what i actually said and it is - government so that is what i actually said and it is really. actually said and it is really important _ actually said and it is really important that— actually said and it is really important that they - actually said and it is really important that they do - actually said and it is really| important that they do look actually said and it is really. important that they do look at things— important that they do look at things in— important that they do look at things in the _ important that they do look at things in the round _ important that they do look at things in the round and - important that they do look at things in the round and then l important that they do look at - things in the round and then respond to the _ things in the round and then respond to the issues — things in the round and then respond to the issues later _ things in the round and then respond to the issues later in _ things in the round and then respond to the issues later in the _ things in the round and then respond to the issues later in the year. - things in the round and then respond to the issues later in the year. i'm i to the issues later in the year. i'm 'ust to the issues later in the year. i'm just being — to the issues later in the year. i'm just being honest— to the issues later in the year. i'm just being honest about _ to the issues later in the year. i'm just being honest about my- to the issues later in the year. i'm just being honest about my own . just being honest about my own personal— just being honest about my own personal position _ just being honest about my own personal position which - just being honest about my own personal position which i - just being honest about my own personal position which i have l just being honest about my own - personal position which i have been on the _ personal position which i have been on the record — personal position which i have been on the record about _ personal position which i have been on the record about for _ personal position which i have been on the record about for some - personal position which i have been on the record about for some time, j on the record about for some time, because _ on the record about for some time, because i_ on the record about for some time, because i see — on the record about for some time, because i see the _ on the record about for some time, because i see the evidence - on the record about for some time, because i see the evidence of- on the record about for some time, because i see the evidence of the l because i see the evidence of the harm _ because i see the evidence of the harm it _ because i see the evidence of the harm it does _ because i see the evidence of the harm it does on _ because i see the evidence of the harm it does on my— because i see the evidence of the harm it does on my part - because i see the evidence of the

harm it does on my part of- because i see the evidence of the harm it does on my part of the i harm it does on my part of the world — harm it does on my part of the world. . ~ harm it does on my part of the world. w' ~ ., ., harm it does on my part of the world. x' . . . ., , harm it does on my part of the world. . ., ., ., , ., world. nick watt, what does that suspension _ world. nick watt, what does that suspension tells _ world. nick watt, what does that suspension tells about _ world. nick watt, what does that suspension tells about the - world. nick watt, what does that suspension tells about the way . world. nick watt, what does that i suspension tells about the way that keir starmer is going to govern? it shows that keir starmer moves quickly and when he needs to be ruthless he will be ruthless and he wants to assert his authority. voting against the government on a king's speech is one of the three confidence votes, the king's speech, the budget and a no—confidence vote. if you vote against it as a government mp it is seen as a pretty hostile act so he moved quickly and those letters were ready to go. i had keir starmer loyalists coming up and talking to mps, wanting me to know that he was going to do this. so really asserting his authority, but andy burnham was talking about there is this task force set up with bridget phillips the education secretary, liz kendall they work and pensions secretary, looking at child poverty. when it was set up it was looking at it in the round, looking at housing and employment, but in

the last 2a hours all the mood music from keir starmer is not closing the door on changing this policy, but not at the moment because rachel reeves the chancellor on sunday were saying, we ain't got the money. let me ask you about hsz, this national me ask you about hs2, this national audit office report today, last october that they can party conference, andy burnham, we interviewed joe newsnight and you were very cross because prime minister rishi sunak was reported as announcing the next day in his speech that he was cancelling hs2 from birmingham to manchester. what we heard today is hs2 trains will travel to manchester from birmingham on the existing west coast main line and actually the government might have to discourage people from catching the train because it will be slower and there won't be enough capacity. be slower and there won't be enough ca aci . ~ ., ., be slower and there won't be enough caaci .~ ., ., i. be slower and there won't be enough caaci .~ ., ., ., ., capacity. what do you say to that? i was talking — capacity. what do you say to that? i was talking about _ capacity. what do you say to that? i was talking about a _ capacity. what do you say to that? i was talking about a nightmare - was talking about a nightmare inheritance _ was talking about a nightmare inheritance and _ was talking about a nightmare inheritance and here - was talking about a nightmare inheritance and here is - was talking about a nightmarel inheritance and here is another was talking about a nightmare - inheritance and here is another part of it _ inheritance and here is another part of it we _ inheritance and here is another part of it we said — inheritance and here is another part of it we said at— inheritance and here is another part of it. we said at last _ inheritance and here is another part of it. we said at last year, - inheritance and here is another part of it. we said at last year, didn't. of it. we said at last year, didn't we? _ of it. we said at last year, didn't we? it was — of it. we said at last year, didn't we? it was a _ of it. we said at last year, didn't we? it was a disastrous - of it. we said at last year, didn't we? it was a disastrous decisionj we? it was a disastrous decision that the — we? it was a disastrous decision that the prime _ we? it was a disastrous decision that the prime minister- we? it was a disastrous decision that the prime minister took-

we? it was a disastrous decisionj that the prime minister took and we? it was a disastrous decision i that the prime minister took and it wasn't _ that the prime minister took and it wasn'tiust— that the prime minister took and it wasn't just me _ that the prime minister took and it wasn'tjust me saying _ that the prime minister took and it wasn'tjust me saying that. - that the prime minister took and it wasn'tjust me saying that. the - wasn'tjust me saying that. the conservative _ wasn'tjust me saying that. the conservative mayor— wasn'tjust me saying that. the conservative mayor of - wasn'tjust me saying that. the conservative mayor of the - wasn'tjust me saying that. the| conservative mayor of the west midlands — conservative mayor of the west midlands was _ conservative mayor of the west midlands was saying _ conservative mayor of the west midlands was saying similar- conservative mayor of the west midlands was saying similar ati conservative mayor of the west i midlands was saying similar at the time and _ midlands was saying similar at the time and we — midlands was saying similar at the time and we said _ midlands was saying similar at the time and we said we _ midlands was saying similar at the time and we said we need - midlands was saying similar at the time and we said we need to - midlands was saying similar at the time and we said we need to put l midlands was saying similar at the | time and we said we need to put in place _ time and we said we need to put in place alternative _ time and we said we need to put in place alternative work— time and we said we need to put in place alternative work to _ time and we said we need to put in place alternative work to look - time and we said we need to put in place alternative work to look at i place alternative work to look at the whole — place alternative work to look at the whole question _ place alternative work to look at the whole question of— place alternative work to look at the whole question of the - place alternative work to look at the whole question of the westl place alternative work to look at - the whole question of the west coast main line _ the whole question of the west coast main line increasing _ the whole question of the west coast main line increasing capacity- main line increasing capacity between _ main line increasing capacity between birmingham - main line increasing capacity between birmingham and . main line increasing capacity- between birmingham and manchester but they— between birmingham and manchester but they national— between birmingham and manchester but they national audit _ between birmingham and manchester but they national audit office - between birmingham and manchester but they national audit office have i but they national audit office have now said _ but they national audit office have now said exactly _ but they national audit office have now said exactly the _ but they national audit office have now said exactly the same - but they national audit office have now said exactly the same today. i j now said exactly the same today. i need _ now said exactly the same today. i need to _ now said exactly the same today. i need to make _ now said exactly the same today. i need to make something - now said exactly the same today. i need to make something really- now said exactly the same today. i l need to make something really clear tonight, _ need to make something really clear tonight, as _ need to make something really clear tonight, as mayor— need to make something really clear tonight, as mayor of— need to make something really clear tonight, as mayor of greater- tonight, as mayor of greater manchester— tonight, as mayor of greater manchester i _ tonight, as mayor of greater manchester i could - tonight, as mayor of greater manchester i could never- tonight, as mayor of greater- manchester i could never accept any government — manchester i could never accept any government of— manchester i could never accept any government of any— manchester i could never accept any government of any colour _ manchester i could never accept any government of any colour saying, i manchester i could never accept any. government of any colour saying, you know _ government of any colour saying, you know what. _ government of any colour saying, you know what. don't _ government of any colour saying, you know what, don't travel— government of any colour saying, you know what, don't travel between - know what, don't travel between birmingham _ know what, don't travel between birmingham and _ know what, don't travel between birmingham and manchester- know what, don't travel between birmingham and manchester ori know what, don't travel between - birmingham and manchester or london and manchesten — birmingham and manchester or london and manchester. you— birmingham and manchester or london and manchester.— and manchester. you might have to. these are the _ and manchester. you might have to. these are the three _ and manchester. you might have to. these are the three big _ and manchester. you might have to. these are the three big economic i these are the three big economic centres _ these are the three big economic centres of— these are the three big economic centres of the _ these are the three big economic centres of the country _ these are the three big economic centres of the country and - these are the three big economic centres of the country and if - these are the three big economic centres of the country and if we i these are the three big economic. centres of the country and if we are going _ centres of the country and if we are going to _ centres of the country and if we are going to get — centres of the country and if we are going to get grossed _ centres of the country and if we are going to get grossed up _ centres of the country and if we are going to get grossed up and down i centres of the country and if we are i going to get grossed up and down the country— going to get grossed up and down the country you _ going to get grossed up and down the country you have _ going to get grossed up and down the country you have to _ going to get grossed up and down the country you have to put _ going to get grossed up and down the country you have to put the _ country you have to put the infrastructure _ country you have to put the infrastructure in _ country you have to put the infrastructure in place. - country you have to put the infrastructure in place. the| infrastructure in place. the idea that people _ infrastructure in place. the idea that people in _ infrastructure in place. the idea that people in the _ infrastructure in place. the idea that people in the greater- that people in the greater manchester, _ that people in the greater manchester, the - that people in the greater| manchester, the residents that people in the greater- manchester, the residents that i represent, — manchester, the residents that i represent, will— manchester, the residents that i represent, will have _ manchester, the residents that i represent, will have worse - manchester, the residents that i represent, will have worse train| represent, will have worse train services — represent, will have worse train services by— represent, will have worse train services by the _ represent, will have worse train services by the middle - represent, will have worse train services by the middle of- represent, will have worse train services by the middle of the i services by the middle of the century— services by the middle of the century because _ services by the middle of the century because there - services by the middle of the century because there are i services by the middle of the i century because there are fewer seats _ century because there are fewer seats and — century because there are fewer seats and they _ century because there are fewer seats and they are _ century because there are fewer seats and they are going - century because there are fewerl seats and they are going slower, that is— seats and they are going slower, that is not— seats and they are going slower, that is not sustainable. - seats and they are going slower, that is not sustainable. the - seats and they are going slower, that is not sustainable. the idea| that is not sustainable. the idea that is not sustainable. the idea that we — that is not sustainable. the idea that we are _ that is not sustainable. the idea that we are just _ that is not sustainable. the idea that we are just going _ that is not sustainable. the idea that we are just going to - that is not sustainable. the idea that we are just going to let - that we are just going to let the

west— that we are just going to let the west coast— that we are just going to let the west coast main _ that we are just going to let the west coast main line _ that we are just going to let the west coast main line basicallyi that we are just going to let the i west coast main line basically fall over by— west coast main line basically fall over by the — west coast main line basically fall over by the mid—20 _ west coast main line basically fall over by the mid—20 30s, - west coast main line basically fall over by the mid—20 30s, it - west coast main line basically fall over by the mid—20 30s, it is - west coast main line basically fall over by the mid—20 30s, it is notl over by the mid—20 30s, it is not tenable, — over by the mid—20 30s, it is not tenable, but _ over by the mid—20 30s, it is not tenable, but that was _ over by the mid—20 30s, it is not tenable, but that was the - over by the mid—20 30s, it is not. tenable, but that was the nightmare headache _ tenable, but that was the nightmare headache that — tenable, but that was the nightmare headache that the _ tenable, but that was the nightmare headache that the last _ tenable, but that was the nightmare headache that the last governmentl headache that the last government left for _ headache that the last government left for this — headache that the last government left for this one. _ headache that the last government left for this one. do _ headache that the last government left for this one.— left for this one. do you accept that, nightmare _ left for this one. do you accept that, nightmare headache, - left for this one. do you accept j that, nightmare headache, and actually they should have cancelled it years ago instead of wasting billions of pounds? i it years ago instead of wasting billions of pounds?— it years ago instead of wasting billions of pounds? i feel like we are setu billions of pounds? i feel like we are setup to _ billions of pounds? i feel like we are setup to attack _ billions of pounds? i feel like we are setup to attack each - billions of pounds? i feel like we are setup to attack each other i billions of pounds? i feel like we l are setup to attack each other but it is one _ are setup to attack each other but it is one of— are setup to attack each other but it is one of the benefits of may hours — it is one of the benefits of may hours and dandy is doing good for the people of greater manchester. i supported _ the people of greater manchester. i supported the cancellation of hsz... you spent _ supported the cancellation of hsz... you spent quite a lot of money on doing at darlington station and you expected that eastern leg.- expected that eastern leg. that is not true. expected that eastern leg. that is not true- not _ expected that eastern leg. that is not true. not to _ expected that eastern leg. that is not true. not to get _ expected that eastern leg. that is not true. not to get too _ expected that eastern leg. that is not true. not to get too parochial| not true. not to get too parochial but darlington station unlocks a huge _ but darlington station unlocks a huge amount of local services across the tees— huge amount of local services across the tees valley. there is an indirect— the tees valley. there is an indirect benefit that sometime in the 20 _ indirect benefit that sometime in the 20 40s if indirect benefit that sometime in the 20 405 if hsz indirect benefit that sometime in the 20 40s if hsz is delivered. the the 20 40s if h52 is delivered. the oint the 20 40s if hs2 is delivered. the oint is, i the 20 40s if hs2 is delivered. the point is. i was _ the 20 40s if hsz is delivered. the point is, i wasjust going tojump in point is, i was just going to jump inand— point is, i wasjust going tojump in and say, — point is, i wasjust going tojump in and say, just— point is, i wasjust going tojump in and say, just to _ point is, i wasjust going tojump in and say, just to say, _ point is, i wasjust going tojump in and say, just to say, i was - point is, i wasjust going tojump in and say, just to say, i was not| in and say, just to say, i was not opposed — in and say, just to say, i was not opposed to — in and say, just to say, i was not opposed to changing _ in and say, just to say, i was not opposed to changing it. - in and say, just to say, i was not opposed to changing it. i- in and say, just to say, i was not opposed to changing it. i wrote i in and say, just to say, i was not. opposed to changing it. i wrote to the former— opposed to changing it. i wrote to the former prime _ opposed to changing it. i wrote to the former prime minister- opposed to changing it. i wrote to the former prime minister and - opposed to changing it. i wrote toi the former prime minister and said opposed to changing it. i wrote to i the former prime minister and said i would _

the former prime minister and said i would be _ the former prime minister and said i would be in — the former prime minister and said i would be in favour— the former prime minister and said i would be in favour of _ the former prime minister and said i would be in favour of prioritising - would be in favour of prioritising east _ would be in favour of prioritising east - _ would be in favour of prioritising east - west _ would be in favour of prioritising east — west first _ would be in favour of prioritising east — west first and _ would be in favour of prioritising east — west first and prepared l would be in favour of prioritisingl east — west first and prepared to look at _ east — west first and prepared to look at downgrading _ east — west first and prepared to look at downgrading the - east — west first and prepared to look at downgrading the spec - east — west first and prepared to look at downgrading the spec ofl east — west first and prepared to - look at downgrading the spec of h52, it was— look at downgrading the spec of h52, it was always — look at downgrading the spec of h52, it was always a — look at downgrading the spec of h52, it was always a bit _ look at downgrading the spec of h52, it was always a bit gold—plated - look at downgrading the spec of h52, it was always a bit gold—plated and i it was always a bit gold—plated and i it was always a bit gold—plated and i was _ it was always a bit gold—plated and i was prepared _ it was always a bit gold—plated and i was prepared to _ it was always a bit gold—plated and i was prepared to accept _ it was always a bit gold—plated and i was prepared to accept those - i was prepared to accept those changes— i was prepared to accept those changes but— i was prepared to accept those changes but it _ i was prepared to accept those changes but it is _ i was prepared to accept those changes but it isjust— i was prepared to accept those changes but it isjust that - i was prepared to accept those changes but it isjust that he i changes but it isjust that he didn't— changes but it isjust that he didn't metres, _ changes but it isjust that he didn't metres, didn't- changes but it isjust that he didn't metres, didn't listeni changes but it isjust that hel didn't metres, didn't listen to changes but it isjust that he - didn't metres, didn't listen to us or his _ didn't metres, didn't listen to us or his own— didn't metres, didn't listen to us or his own conservative - didn't metres, didn't listen to us or his own conservative mayor i didn't metres, didn't listen to us l or his own conservative mayor and now we _ or his own conservative mayor and now we are — or his own conservative mayor and now we are left _ or his own conservative mayor and now we are left with _ or his own conservative mayor and now we are left with a _ or his own conservative mayor and now we are left with a bit - or his own conservative mayor and now we are left with a bit of- or his own conservative mayor and now we are left with a bit of a - or his own conservative mayor and i now we are left with a bit of a mess basically— now we are left with a bit of a mess basically that— now we are left with a bit of a mess basically that this _ now we are left with a bit of a mess basically that this government - now we are left with a bit of a mess basically that this government is i basically that this government is going _ basically that this government is going to — basically that this government is going to have _ basically that this government is going to have to _ basically that this government is going to have to sort _ basically that this government is going to have to sort out. - basically that this government is going to have to sort out. just. basically that this government is going to have to sort out. just very ruickl , it going to have to sort out. just very quickly. it is _ going to have to sort out. just very quickly, it is really _ going to have to sort out. just very quickly, it is really interesting - quickly, it is really interesting that the — quickly, it is really interesting that the whole hsz tobaccos back to front _ that the whole hsz tobaccos back to front we _ that the whole hsz tobaccos back to front. we should have started in the north— front. we should have started in the north of— front. we should have started in the north of england with east—west connectivity. north of england with east-west connectivity-— north of england with east-west connectivi . , connectivity. everybody was saying at the time. _ connectivity. everybody was saying at the time, to _ connectivity. everybody was saying at the time, to boris _ connectivity. everybody was saying at the time, to boris johnson - connectivity. everybody was saying at the time, to boris johnson your| at the time, to borisjohnson your then prime minister. i at the time, to boris johnson your then prime minister.— then prime minister. i don't disagree- — then prime minister. i don't disagree- it _ then prime minister. i don't disagree. it is _ then prime minister. i don't disagree. it is a _ then prime minister. i don't disagree. it is a much - then prime minister. i don't disagree. it is a much more| disagree. it is a much more fundamental issue with delivery of quality— fundamental issue with delivery of quality infrastructure in this country _ quality infrastructure in this count . ., ., country. to be fair, you said it to our country. to be fair, you said it to your government, _ country. to be fair, you said it to your government, i _ country. to be fair, you said it to your government, i said - country. to be fair, you said it to your government, i said it - country. to be fair, you said it to your government, i said it to - country. to be fair, you said it to your government, i said it to the j your government, i said it to the government— your government, i said it to the government i_ your government, i said it to the government i was— your government, i said it to the government i was in— your government, i said it to the government i was in back in - your government, i said it to the i government i was in back in 2009, your government, i said it to the - government i was in back in 2009, it should _ government i was in back in 2009, it should have — government i was in back in 2009, it should have started _ government i was in back in 2009, it should have started in— government i was in back in 2009, it should have started in the _ government i was in back in 2009, it should have started in the north - government i was in back in 2009, it should have started in the north andl should have started in the north and you are _ should have started in the north and you are absolutely _ should have started in the north and you are absolutely right _ should have started in the north and you are absolutely right about - should have started in the north and you are absolutely right about that. i you are absolutely right about that. we can _ you are absolutely right about that. we can agree — you are absolutely right about that. we can agree that _ you are absolutely right about that. we can agree that most— you are absolutely right about that. we can agree that most things - you are absolutely right about that. i we can agree that most things should start in the north. let's move on.

is male violence against women and girls a "national emergency"? yes, according to the national police chiefs council and the college of policing in a report today. they say the stats are "staggering" and the volume of cases "continues to grow" — up by alomst 40% in five years. over two million women and girls a year are estimated to be victims of male violence. one in every six homicides are domestic abuse related. in a moment we'll hear the stories of two women. first, here's maggie blyth, deputy ceo of the college of policing and the national police chiefs council lead for this area. primary threats are domestic abuse, stalking and harassment, rape and serious sexual offences, but also the gross of online harm and child abuse and child sexual exploitation, and we know that the average age for young people for both the victim and potentially a suspect in these crimes is 15. the crimes that most impact women and girls include growth of online harm and that includes images, content, but also includes some of the influencers,

particularly influencers around young people who are perpetrating a narrative that includes sexual violence and misogyny. in a moment we'll talk to the newly—elected labour mp for bolsover, natalie fleet. she was 15 when she was groomed by an older man. first we're going to talk to "alison" — which isn't her real name becasue she has asked us to protect her identity, which is why we are filming alison in the why we are. back in 1995, alison was a member of an anti—racist, anti—fascist centre in north london called the colin roach centre. it was infiltrated by an undercover met police officer. welcome to newsnight and thank you for talking to our audience. what happened whenever the met police officer, you didn't know he was an officer, you didn't know he was an officer, joined that centre in 1995? when hejoined he presented himself as a joiner and was very friendly and made friends with of members of the centre and we started a sexual,

intimate relationship within a matter of months. find intimate relationship within a matter of months.— intimate relationship within a matter of months. �* ., ., matter of months. and how long did that to on matter of months. and how long did that go on for? _ matter of months. and how long did that go on for? it _ matter of months. and how long did that go on for? it lasted _ that go on for? it lasted five ears, that go on for? it lasted five years. he — that go on for? it lasted five years, he lived _ that go on for? it lasted five years, he lived with - that go on for? it lasted five years, he lived with me - that go on for? it lasted five years, he lived with me and| that go on for? it lasted five i years, he lived with me and it was only after he disappeared in 2000 when i began to search for him. i uncovered what is now emerging as one of the biggest scandals in british policing.— one of the biggest scandals in british policing. because you are one of an estimated _ british policing. because you are one of an estimated 50? - british policing. because you are one of an estimated 50? 60 - british policing. because you are i one of an estimated 50? 60 women british policing. because you are - one of an estimated 50? 60 women who were essentially deceived into a relationship with people you had no idea who they were?— relationship with people you had no idea who they were? women were used, we were objectified _ idea who they were? women were used, we were objectified and _ idea who they were? women were used, we were objectified and we _ idea who they were? women were used, we were objectified and we were - idea who they were? women were used, we were objectified and we were used i we were objectified and we were used as props in the large to shore up these men's' fake identities. we are involved in a public inquiry into undercover policing and that is aiming to get to the truth of this 50 year scandal where women like me did not give our consent to have

intimate sexual relationships with men who we thought were in some cases our soulmates and who we thought were not members of the metropolitan police and not married with children. it was part of their deployment that they were expected to be married so the victims and survivors of this scandal are women activists, some women who were not activists, some women who were not activists but were friends with activists, and the wives and families of officers so the institutional sexism and misogyny that we see in the metropolitan police is being uncovered but the frustration for many of us is, particularly on a day like today when the report has come out, that there is no reference that we can see two police perpetrators. weill. see two police perpetrators. well, there is about _ see two police perpetrators. well, there is about three _ see two police perpetrators. well, there is about three references. really small. but it really does not have a whole chapter or even a paragraph on police perpetrators.

looking through the prism of the report today, do you believe what happened to you was violence against you? for happened to you was violence against ou? ., . , happened to you was violence against ou? ., ., , ., , happened to you was violence against ou? ., ., i. , you? for many of us it was psychological _ you? for many of us it was psychological violence and | you? for many of us it was i psychological violence and the impact of that psychological violence is huge. personally, i had some very dark years soon after mark disappeared and i have been able to rebuild my life through the love and friendship of family and friends and i was able to meet the other women with whom we cracked open the scandal. but the impact also today is in terms of the gruelling nature of the public inquiry. you is in terms of the gruelling nature of the public inquiry.— of the public inquiry. you were there today? _ of the public inquiry. you were there today? you _ of the public inquiry. you were there today? you are - of the public inquiry. you were there today? you are there i of the public inquiry. you were i there today? you are there most of the public inquiry. you were - there today? you are there most days and this has been going on for a number of years and the met police have apologised, they have reached an out—of—court settlement in 2015 when this judge led inquiry was set “p when this judge led inquiry was set up but you want to get to the truth and you feel that obstacles are being put in your way. why? some

women still _ being put in your way. why? some women still have _ being put in your way. why? some women still have not _ being put in your way. why? some women still have not settled, - being put in your way. why? fine women still have not settled, some women still have not settled, some women have not received compensation and there are many women who will not know that this has even happened to them because the public inquiry is a misnomer in many ways because the police are doing everything it can to keep it a secret and as private as they can. find can to keep it a secret and as private as they can.— can to keep it a secret and as private as they can. and you mean the are private as they can. and you mean they are trying _ private as they can. and you mean they are trying to _ private as they can. and you mean they are trying to keep _ private as they can. and you mean they are trying to keep officersin l they are trying to keep officersin real names out of it? you want the real names out of it? you want the real names? _ real names out of it? you want the real names? they are _ real names out of it? you want the real names? they are names - real names out of it? you want the real names? they are names on i real names out of it? you want the | real names? they are names on the hope that activists have investigated and found out for themselves but the police are putting to the inquiry a number of anonymity requests and we want the real names, we want the cover names of all of the officers were loads of the undercover officers are given ciphers and we want the real names of officers who went on to take senior rules either in the police or

in society because without transparency and openness, we cannot trust reports like today, that they have any significance or real meaning. have any significance or real meaning-— have any significance or real meaninu. �* . ~' ,, , have any significance or real meaninu. �* . ~' , . meaning. alison, thank you very much for talkin: meaning. alison, thank you very much for talking to — meaning. alison, thank you very much for talking to us. _ meaning. alison, thank you very much for talking to us. we _ meaning. alison, thank you very much for talking to us. we appreciate - meaning. alison, thank you very much for talking to us. we appreciate it - for talking to us. we appreciate it very much. next we're going to talk to the new labour mp for bolsover, natalie fleet. she has waived her right to anonymity to talk to you this evening. as a teenger she was groomed and raped. thank you very much for being with us and talking to our audience. it was statutory rape and the reason i feel the need to say that is because the minute that you say rape, people do not believe you. it doesn't matter who it is, the biggest fear with rape is that people are not going to believe you. the reason that i feel able to talk about is because legally it was statutory rape. because legally it was statutory ra e. ., because legally it was statutory

rae. ., ' because legally it was statutory rape-_ i was - because legally it was statutory rape-_ i was 15 - because legally it was statutoryj rape._ i was 15 and because legally it was statutory i rape._ i was 15 and he rape. you were 15? i was 15 and he was an older _ rape. you were 15? i was 15 and he was an older man. _ rape. you were 15? i was 15 and he was an older man. they _ rape. you were 15? i was 15 and he | was an older man. they will always deny there was any grooming involved, all of those things, there are people who would say that i asked for it and i dress in the wrong way, all of those things. the reason i feel able to talk about it, and so many women do not, is because in law, this was statutory rape, and that means that first hurdle about not being believed is overcome because i had a beautiful 23 to prove it. because i had a beautiful 23 to rove it. . . ._ because i had a beautiful 23 to rove it. ., . ., because i had a beautiful 23 to rove it. . . ., ~ ., prove it. our audience may not know that. you prove it. our audience may not know that- you are — prove it. our audience may not know that. you are impregnated _ prove it. our audience may not know that. you are impregnated by - prove it. our audience may not know that. you are impregnated by this i that. you are impregnated by this older man. and you gave birth. a little girl. what did people say to you at that time, when you are pregnant, as a 15—year—old? thea;r pregnant, as a 15-year-old? they were, as pregnant, as a 15-year-old? they were. as you _ pregnant, as a 15-year-old? they were, as you would _ pregnant, as a 15-year-old? they were, as you would expect - pregnant, as a 15—year—old? iie: were, as you would expect society pregnant, as a 15—year—old? tie: were, as you would expect society to be, they spoke to me in a similar

way that unfortunately they would to a 15—year—old today. i was called horrendous names. like, the usual. slack, slap, does she know who the father is? she sleeps about. she is just a slack. yes, it was really tough but i never thought that anybody else had done anything wrong, i thought it was all of my fault because that is what girls are led to believe and it was only when my daughter got older and the more we started talking about stuff, i think that legally that was statutory rape. and i have this beautiful, incredible daughter. i struggled with things like, she looked away that i did not always,

she is stunningly beautiful, she did not have my hair. she is incredible. but i wanted to talk to her about the fact that she came from less than ideal circumstances. so i googled for support because i thought, i don't know what to do here. and i googled. and there was no acknowledgement that it happens in this country, there are academic papers in countries far away, there was no practical help on the nhs website, no charity to tell me that it is ok sometimes to be uncomfortable about beautiful hair or two sometimes feel like, i love her more than anything in the world, and also, it was quite tricky being pregnant at 15 and not really understanding that we were having unprotected sex, not knowing that, there was no support from me whatsoever. so i phoned a charity and they said that they did not have

support for conceptions either. and the more i did, i realised, the estimate in 2021, there was 3300 births from rape, it is probably just the tip of the iceberg, we do not know the data. if these women tell the truth, they are probably not going to be believed. if they are really brave and they tell the truth, it is going to take a long time, underthe truth, it is going to take a long time, under the conservative government, to go to court, and then i have constituents coming to me, as soon as i am elected, saying, i have tried to take my life because i have waited so long to get to court, can you help? and you have the new labour government having to make decisions like releasing people early who are in prison when brave women have spoken out to get the prosecution. in the final piece of the jigsaw is that if you have a child from rape, then the

perpetrator can have full access to the child. it feels like there is so much work to do and i want to speak out, even though it is difficult and scary. out, even though it is difficult and sca . ., ., out, even though it is difficult and sea. ., . out, even though it is difficult and sca. ., ., ., scary. you are scared, you are terrified- — scary. you are scared, you are terrified. have _ scary. you are scared, you are terrified. have a _ scary. you are scared, you are terrified. have a drink. - scary. you are scared, you are - terrified. have a drink. thank you. did anyone — terrified. have a drink. thank you. did anyone ask— terrified. have a drink. thank you. did anyone ask you, _ terrified. have a drink. thank you. did anyone ask you, aged 15, - terrified. have a drink. thank you. did anyone ask you, aged 15, what was going on?— did anyone ask you, aged 15, what was going on? how that happened? it does not matter— was going on? how that happened? it does not matter what _ was going on? how that happened? it does not matter what age _ was going on? how that happened? it does not matter what age you - was going on? how that happened? it does not matter what age you are. i does not matter what age you are. when you are a woman, there are people now who will say that was my fault, there were definitely people who said that in the year 2000. nobody was asking me, they were putting support in place to make sure there was a teenage pregnancy prevention strategy under the last labour government, there was support from health visitors, support so that i could still go on and go to university, there was support from the government and professionals to

learn things like to breast—feed her, but nobody was asking the question about where she came from and if i was ok. it was not culturally a thing and i don't know if we have moved on that far. who; if we have moved on that far. why do ou if we have moved on that far. why do you believe — if we have moved on that far. why do you believe violence _ if we have moved on that far. why do you believe violence against - if we have moved on that far. why do you believe violence against women i you believe violence against women and girls is on the increase? which is what this report says today. i am not surprised- _ is what this report says today. i am not surprised. if— is what this report says today. i am not surprised. if this _ is what this report says today. i an not surprised. if this happens to is what this report says today. i am not surprised. if this happens to me now, would i be brave enough to talk about it? probably not because i would be terrified i would not be believed, i will be terrified of the backlash, i am terrified of the backlash, i am terrified of the backlash even though this is a legal reality. the sense of respondent e to speak out trumps that so i am speaking out. and i think that as parents, i have two lovely, lovely lads that i am really proud of. young adults?— lads that i am really proud of. young adults? lads that i am really proud of. youn: adults? , �* . ., , young adults? yes. and i have really uncomfortable _ young adults? yes. and i have really uncomfortable chats _ young adults? yes. and i have really uncomfortable chats with _ young adults? yes. and i have really uncomfortable chats with them - young adults? yes. and i have really uncomfortable chats with them that. young adults? yes. and i have really uncomfortable chats with them that i wish i was not having about what

consent means and if they bring somebody home, we are not going to have sex with him that night, we will wait until the next morning when we sober up and we will then have a great time and they all are, mum, i cannot believe you are having these conversations with us, i have these conversations with us, i have the same conversations with their friends, not enough of these conversations with young people are happening. not enough women are talking about their experience. and what shocked me most since i first spoke about this on sunday is the amount of women that have got a similar story and a similar experience. i think you would have to go a long way to find somebody who had not experienced it. we are just not talking about it, and that is not ok. ., ., ., ., ~ ., is not ok. you are now an mp. if a ounu is not ok. you are now an mp. if a young woman _ is not ok. you are now an mp. if a young woman came _ is not ok. you are now an mp. if a young woman came to _ is not ok. you are now an mp. if a young woman came to you - is not ok. you are now an mp. if a young woman came to you and - is not ok. you are now an mp. if a - young woman came to you and shared an experience like you went through, you enjoyed, and said, shall i go to the police?— the police? what would you say to her? i the police? what would you say to her? i would _ the police? what would you say to

her? i would encourage _ the police? what would you say to her? i would encourage her to, i the police? what would you say to | her? i would encourage her to, but the police? what would you say to l her? i would encourage her to, but i would notjudge her if she did not want to. i would tell her about this what we are putting in place, we are setting up rape courts across the country and i would tell her that if there was a conception, about the work i want to do and making sure we have some kind of charity that can give support. but i would notjudge her if she did not want to move forward with it because we have to start believing women. i would believe her, i believe the women who have come to me. and i have had loads of support from women. we need to support each other and we need to believe each other, and then she is going to be more likely to go to the police when she knows they will believe, they will look after and support. and there will be a sentence. and i'm excited to hear about what this labour government will do i making sure those perpetrators do not get access to the children if they are conceived through rape. the children if they are conceived through rape-— through rape. you have spoken with such courage _

through rape. you have spoken with such courage and _ through rape. you have spoken with such courage and dignity _ through rape. you have spoken with such courage and dignity to - such courage and dignity to our audience tonight. i am very grateful. you will have helped so many people. thank you so much, natalie. thank you. i will go to andy burnham and ben houchen, andy burnham, you are noting as natalie was saying we do not talk about this enough. —— you were noting. was saying we do not talk about this enough. -- you were noting.- enough. -- you were noting. iwas. i want to echo — enough. -- you were noting. iwas. i want to echo what _ enough. -- you were noting. iwas. i want to echo what you _ enough. -- you were noting. iwas. i want to echo what you were - enough. -- you were noting. iwas. i| want to echo what you were saying at the end of the, natalie fleet is going to be a really important voice in this parliament on the issue of sexual abuse and exploitation of women and girls. so all creditor. she will have empowered many people in the last few days, given as a new mp she has chosen to do what she has done. we do need the culture change that she speaks of. we just have a situation where extreme images are far too readily available in society

and that clearly has an impact. on young men, lads who look at those kind of images. we have cultural issues within the police and you may remember that i commissioned a report last week to look at some of those issues. and to make some really clear statements about the use of strip search within the police. i am saying there should be a presumption against it, and we need a real change there and picking up need a real change there and picking up on the issues around policing mentioned before, for me, when sarah everard was murdered, i will be honest and say to you, i had conversations with my daughters that i should have had before. but i finally did have in terms of understanding some of the issues they experience every day and when i really focused on things i realised that we needed a big culture change, i led a campaign in manchester aimed at men and boys challenging them in terms of their behaviour or the behaviour of their friends and they are witnessing it, saying we are not

accepting that any more, it has to