i now call the shadow chancellor of the exchequer. _ i now call the shadow chancellor of the exchequer, jeremy— i now call the shadow chancellor of the exchequer, jeremy hunt. - i now call the shadow chancellor of the exchequer, jeremy hunt. thank ou, mr the exchequer, jeremy hunt. thank you. mr speaker. — the exchequer, jeremy hunt. thank you, mr speaker, and _ the exchequer, jeremy hunt. thank you, mr speaker, and i _ the exchequer, jeremy hunt. thank you, mr speaker, and i thank - the exchequer, jeremy hunt. thank you, mr speaker, and i thank the i you, mr speaker, and i thank the chancellor— you, mr speaker, and i thank the chancellor for advanced sight of her statement, they echo her thoughts for the _ statement, they echo her thoughts for the people and emergency services — for the people and emergency services southport. today, she will fool absolutely no one with a shameless attempt to lay the ground for tax _ shameless attempt to lay the ground for tax rises she didn't have the courage — for tax rises she didn't have the courage to— for tax rises she didn't have the courage to tell us about... order, order! new— courage to tell us about... order, order! now then. _ courage to tell us about... order, order! now then. this _ courage to tell us about... order, order! now then. this is - courage to tell us about... order, order! now then. this is the - order! now then. this is the cabinet _ order! now then. this is the cabinet i_ order! now then. this is the cabinet. i wanted _ order! now then. this is the cabinet. i wanted to - order! now then. this is the cabinet. i wanted to act - order! now then. this is the cabinet. i wanted to act like | order! now then. this is the i cabinet. i wanted to act like a cabinet, — cabinet. i wanted to act like a cabinet, not_ cabinet. i wanted to act like a cabinet, not like _ cabinet. i wanted to act like a cabinet, not like a _ cabinet. i wanted to act like a cabinet, not like a rabble - cabinet. i wanted to act like a i cabinet, not like a rabble trying cabinet. i wanted to act like a - cabinet, not like a rabble trying to shut down— cabinet, not like a rabble trying to shut down the _ cabinet, not like a rabble trying to shut down the shadow _ cabinet, not like a rabble trying to shut down the shadow chancellor. jeremy— shut down the shadow chancellor. jeremy hunt. _ shut down the shadow chancellor. jeremy hunt she— shut down the shadow chancellor. jeremy hunt-— jeremy hunt. she says the information _ jeremy hunt. she says the information is _ jeremy hunt. she says the information is new, - jeremy hunt. she says the information is new, but. jeremy hunt. she says the | information is new, but she jeremy hunt. she says the - information is new, but she herself told the _ information is new, but she herself told the financial times, you don't need _ told the financial times, you don't need to— told the financial times, you don't need to win — told the financial times, you don't need to win an election to find out the state — need to win an election to find out the state of public finances, as we have _ the state of public finances, as we have got _ the state of public finances, as we have got the 0b are now. paul johnson — have got the 0b are now. paul johnson of the iff says the state of public— johnson of the iff says the state of public finances were apparent pre—election to anyone who cared to

look, _ pre—election to anyone who cared to took. which — pre—election to anyone who cared to look, which is why he and other independent figures say her argument is hot _ independent figures say her argument is not credible and won't wash. —— ifs~ _ is not credible and won't wash. —— ifs~ those — is not credible and won't wash. —— ifs. those public finances were audited — ifs. those public finances were audited by the 0b are just ten weeks before _ audited by the 0b are just ten weeks before the _ audited by the 0b are just ten weeks before the election was called. we are how— before the election was called. we are now expected to believe that in that short — are now expected to believe that in that short period, a £20 billion htack— that short period, a £20 billion black hole has magically emerged. but every— black hole has magically emerged. but every single day in that period, in fact, _ but every single day in that period, in fact, since january, in line with constitutional convention, she has had privileged access to the treasury— had privileged access to the treasury permanent secretary. she could _ treasury permanent secretary. she could find — treasury permanent secretary. she could find out absolutely anything she needed. so will she confirm today— she needed. so will she confirm today to — she needed. so will she confirm today to the house she did have meetings — today to the house she did have meetings with the permanent secretary of the treasury before the election? _ secretary of the treasury before the election? will she tell the house if they discussed public finances? will she tett— they discussed public finances? will she tell the house if they discussed any of— she tell the house if they discussed any of the _ she tell the house if they discussed any of the pressures she is talking about— any of the pressures she is talking about today? and if so, why are we only hearing — about today? and if so, why are we only hearing today what she wants to

do about _ only hearing today what she wants to do about them? that is why today's exercise _ do about them? that is why today's exercise is — do about them? that is why today's exercise is not economic, it is botiticat _ exercise is not economic, it is political. she wants to blame the last conservative government for tax rises and _ last conservative government for tax rises and project cancellations she's— rises and project cancellations she's been planning all along. the trouble _ she's been planning all along. the trouble is, — she's been planning all along. the trouble is, even her own published numbers— trouble is, even her own published numbers expose the fiction behind today's— numbers expose the fiction behind today's announcement. just four days a-o, today's announcement. just four days ago. she _ today's announcement. just four days ago, she presented to the house the government's estimates of spending plans for— government's estimates of spending plans for the year. those estimates are a _ plans for the year. those estimates are a legat— plans for the year. those estimates are a legal requirement, and the officiat— are a legal requirement, and the official guidance manual is clear. departments are responsible for ensuring — departments are responsible for ensuring that estimates are consistent with their best forecast of requirements. they are signed off by the _ of requirements. they are signed off by the most — of requirements. they are signed off by the most senior civil servants, the accounting officers, in every department, yet for days on, the chancettor— department, yet for days on, the chancellor is saying those estimates are wrong _ chancellor is saying those estimates are wrong. —— four days on. so who's

right, _ are wrong. —— four days on. so who's right, politically civil servants, or a _ right, politically civil servants, or a political chancellor? if she is right, _ or a political chancellor? if she is right, witi— or a political chancellor? if she is right, will she ask the cabinet secretary— right, will she ask the cabinet secretary to investigate those civil servants, — secretary to investigate those civil servants, and will she apologise to the house — servants, and will she apologise to the house for laying misleading estimates? of course not, because she estimates? of course not, because she knows— estimates? of course not, because she knows those civil servants are right, _ she knows those civil servants are right, and — she knows those civil servants are right, and today's black hole is spurious, — right, and today's black hole is spurious, just like when she says she inherited the worst set of economic— she inherited the worst set of economic circumstances since the second _ economic circumstances since the second world war. when bbc verify asked _ second world war. when bbc verify asked a _ second world war. when bbc verify asked a professor of the london schoot— asked a professor of the london school of— asked a professor of the london school of economics about that claim, — school of economics about that claim, he — school of economics about that claim, he responded, i struggle to find a _ claim, he responded, i struggle to find a metric that would make that statement is correct. because, mr speaker. _ statement is correct. because, mr speaker, the metrics speak for themselves. inflation is 2% today, nearly— themselves. inflation is 2% today, nearly half— themselves. inflation is 2% today, nearly half what it was in 2010 when we had _ nearly half what it was in 2010 when we had to— nearly half what it was in 2010 when we had to clear up the mess inherited _ we had to clear up the mess inherited from a labour government. unemployment is nearly half what it was then, _ unemployment is nearly half what it was then, with more newjobs than

nearly— was then, with more newjobs than nearly anywhere else in europe, and so far— nearly anywhere else in europe, and so far this _ nearly anywhere else in europe, and so far this year, we are the fastest—growing g7 economy, and over the next _ fastest—growing g7 economy, and over the next six _ fastest—growing g7 economy, and over the next six years, the imf say we will grow— the next six years, the imf say we will grow faster france, italy, germany— will grow faster france, italy, germany orjapan. indeed, just two days before — germany orjapan. indeed, just two days before the election was called, the managing director of the imf braised _ the managing director of the imf praised the previous government's handling _ praised the previous government's handling of the economy and said it was in _ handling of the economy and said it was in a _ handling of the economy and said it was in a good place. this week, the institute _ was in a good place. this week, the institute for— was in a good place. this week, the institute for fiscal studies said it was not — institute for fiscal studies said it was not a — institute for fiscal studies said it was not a bad situation to take charge — was not a bad situation to take charge of. _ was not a bad situation to take charge of, and certainly not comparable to the 1940s or 1970s. if you are _ comparable to the 1940s or 1970s. if you are in _ comparable to the 1940s or 1970s. if you are in charge of the economy, it is time _ you are in charge of the economy, it is time to— you are in charge of the economy, it is time to stop trash talking it. what _ is time to stop trash talking it. what is — is time to stop trash talking it. what is the point of going to new york or— what is the point of going to new york or brazil to bang the drum for more _ york or brazil to bang the drum for more investment if you come home with a _ more investment if you come home with a clock— more investment if you come home with a clock and bull story about how bad — with a clock and bull story about how bad everything is? she should stop playing politics with britain's reputation and get on with running the economy. so when it comes to public— the economy. so when it comes to public finances, will she confirm to

the house — public finances, will she confirm to the house that far from being broke and broken, as downing street briefed — and broken, as downing street briefed the media, the forecast deficit— briefed the media, the forecast deficit today is 4.4% compared to 103%— deficit today is 4.4% compared to 10.3% when labour left office in 2010 _ 10.3% when labour left office in 2010 in— 10.3% when labour left office in 2010. in other words, 10.3% when labour left office in 2010. in otherwords, when 10.3% when labour left office in 2010. in other words, when labour was tast— 2010. in other words, when labour was last in— 2010. in other words, when labour was last in office, we were borrowing double current levels. and will she _ borrowing double current levels. and will she confirm another difference between _ will she confirm another difference between today and 2010? the conservatives came to office then being _ conservatives came to office then being honest about our plans and saying _ being honest about our plans and saying very straightforwardly we needed — saying very straightforwardly we needed to cut the deficit, whereas she's— needed to cut the deficit, whereas she'sjust — needed to cut the deficit, whereas she'sjust won an needed to cut the deficit, whereas she's just won an election telling us repeatedly, taxes will not go up. how many— us repeatedly, taxes will not go up. how many seats were won on the back of commitments not to raise tax white _ of commitments not to raise tax white she — of commitments not to raise tax while she is quietly planning to do the exact— while she is quietly planning to do the exact opposite? so, turning to the exact opposite? so, turning to the details — the exact opposite? so, turning to the details she has announced today, will she _ the details she has announced today, will she confirm that around half today's — will she confirm that around half today's fictitious black hole comes from discretionary public sector pay awards. _ from discretionary public sector pay awards. in— from discretionary public sector pay awards, in other words, from discretionary public sector pay awards, in otherwords, not something she has to do, but something she has to do, but something where she has a choice?

will something where she has a choice? witt she _ something where she has a choice? will she confirm to the house that apart— will she confirm to the house that apart from — will she confirm to the house that apart from the teachers' recommendation, none of the other pay review— recommendation, none of the other pay review body recommendations were seen by _ pay review body recommendations were seen by the _ pay review body recommendations were seen by the last government as they arrived _ seen by the last government as they arrived after the election was called? — arrived after the election was called? now, today, she has chosen to accept— called? now, today, she has chosen to accept those recommendations, but before _ to accept those recommendations, but before doing so, was she advised by officials _ before doing so, was she advised by officials to _ before doing so, was she advised by officials to ask unions for productivity enhancements before accepting above inflation pay awards to help _ accepting above inflation pay awards to help pay for those awards as the last government did? and if she was advised _ last government did? and if she was advised to— last government did? and if she was advised to do that, why did she reject— advised to do that, why did she reject that advice and simply tell the unions, here is your money, thanks— the unions, here is your money, thanks for— the unions, here is your money, thanks for your support? will she confirm ~~ — thanks for your support? will she confirmm i— thanks for your support? will she confirm... i know they don't like the truth, — confirm... i know they don't like the truth, but here it is. will she confirm — the truth, but here it is. will she confirm that one of the reasons for her funding — confirm that one of the reasons for herfunding gap is confirm that one of the reasons for her funding gap is that she has chosen— her funding gap is that she has chosen to _ her funding gap is that she has chosen to backdate a 22% pay award to junior _ chosen to backdate a 22% pay award to junior doctors to cover the time

when _ to junior doctors to cover the time when they— to junior doctors to cover the time when they were striking? we are just three _ when they were striking? we are just three months into the financial year. _ three months into the financial year. so — three months into the financial year, so why did she not mentioned today— year, so why did she not mentioned today that _ year, so why did she not mentioned today that at the start of the year, the treasury had a reserve of £14 billion— the treasury had a reserve of £14 billion for— the treasury had a reserve of £14 billion for unexpected revenue costs and £4 _ billion for unexpected revenue costs and £4 billion for unexpected capitat— and £4 billion for unexpected capital costs? additionally, why has she not— capital costs? additionally, why has she not accounted for the treasury's abitity _ she not accounted for the treasury's ability to _ she not accounted for the treasury's ability to manage down in year pressures— ability to manage down in year pressures on the reserve? last year atone _ pressures on the reserve? last year atone by— pressures on the reserve? last year atone by £9_ pressures on the reserve? last year alone by £9 billion. why has she apparently not unaccounted forward accounted _ apparently not unaccounted forward accounted for underspends, which could _ accounted for underspends, which could be _ accounted for underspends, which could be around £12 billion a year? has she _ could be around £12 billion a year? has she totally abandoned the £12 billion— has she totally abandoned the £12 billion of— has she totally abandoned the £12 billion of welfare savings plan by the tast— billion of welfare savings plan by the last government, and if so, will she confirm — the last government, and if so, will she confirm that to the house? has she confirm that to the house? has she also— she confirm that to the house? has she also abandoned £20 billion of annual— she also abandoned £20 billion of annual productivity savings planned by the _ annual productivity savings planned by the last government, and if so, if not. _ by the last government, and if so, if not. why— by the last government, and if so, if not, why are they not on her number— if not, why are they not on her number is? _ if not, why are they not on her number is? and finally, for someone

who claims— number is? and finally, for someone who claims continuously the mantle of fiscal— who claims continuously the mantle of fiscal rectitude, will she confirm _ of fiscal rectitude, will she confirm that in order to pay for her public— confirm that in order to pay for her public spending plans, she will not change _ public spending plans, she will not change fiscal rules to target a different debt measure so she can increase _ different debt measure so she can increase borrowing and debt by the back door? — increase borrowing and debt by the back door? every chancellor faces pressures— back door? every chancellor faces pressures on public finances. after a pandemic— pressures on public finances. after a pandemic at the energy crisis, those _ a pandemic at the energy crisis, those pressures are particularly challenging, which is why in autumn 2022. _ challenging, which is why in autumn 2022, the _ challenging, which is why in autumn 2022, the previous government took painful— 2022, the previous government took painful but— 2022, the previous government took painful but necessary decisions on tax—and—spend. but we knew, going forward, _ tax—and—spend. but we knew, going forward, that if we continued to take _ forward, that if we continued to take difficult decisions on pay, productivity and welfare reform, we could _ productivity and welfare reform, we could live _ productivity and welfare reform, we could live within our means and start— could live within our means and start to — could live within our means and start to bring taxes down. she, on the other— start to bring taxes down. she, on the other hand, knew perfectly well a labour— the other hand, knew perfectly well a labour government would duck those difficutt _ a labour government would duck those difficult decisions. she has caved in to— difficult decisions. she has caved in to the — difficult decisions. she has caved in to the unions on pay, left wetfare _ in to the unions on pay, left welfare reform out of the king's

speech, — welfare reform out of the king's speech, soft pedalled on our productivity programme, and that is a choice. _ productivity programme, and that is a choice, not a necessity. and that choice _ a choice, not a necessity. and that choice means that taxes will have to id choice means that taxes will have to go up. _ choice means that taxes will have to go up. and _ choice means that taxes will have to go up, and she chose not to tell us before _ go up, and she chose not to tell us before the — go up, and she chose not to tell us before the election. instead, in 24 days. _ before the election. instead, in 24 days, just — before the election. instead, in 24 days, just 24 days, she has announced £7.3 billion were gb energy. — announced £7.3 billion were gb energy. a — announced £7.3 billion were gb energy, a 3p for the national wealth fund and _ energy, a 3p for the national wealth fund and around £10 billion for public— fund and around £10 billion for public sector pay awards. that is £24 bittion— public sector pay awards. that is £24 billion in 24 days, around £1 billion— £24 billion in 24 days, around £1 billion every day she has been in office. _ billion every day she has been in office, leaving taxpayers to pick up the tab _ office, leaving taxpayers to pick up the tab for— office, leaving taxpayers to pick up the tab for her profligacy, and doing — the tab for her profligacy, and doing it — the tab for her profligacy, and doing it this way, she makes the first major— doing it this way, she makes the first major misstep of her time as chancettor, — first major misstep of her time as chancellor, because that great office — chancellor, because that great office of— chancellor, because that great office of state depends more than any on _ office of state depends more than any on trust. in her first... in her first— any on trust. in her first... in her first big— any on trust. in her first... in her first big moment, she breaks that

trust _ first big moment, she breaks that trust with— first big moment, she breaks that trust with an utterly bogus attempt to hoodwink the public about the choices _ to hoodwink the public about the choices she has. 0ver to hoodwink the public about the choices she has. over 50 times in the election, they told us they have no plans— the election, they told us they have no plans to — the election, they told us they have no plans to raise taxes. now, in a u-turn_ no plans to raise taxes. now, in a u-turn that — no plans to raise taxes. now, in a u—turn that will forever shameless labour— u—turn that will forever shameless labour government, she is laying the ground _ labour government, she is laying the ground to _ labour government, she is laying the ground to break her word, and when she does. _ ground to break her word, and when she does, herfirst ground to break her word, and when she does, her first budget will become — she does, her first budget will become the biggest betrayal in history— become the biggest betrayal in history by a new chancellor, and working — history by a new chancellor, and working families will never forgive her. ,, ., ., ., . ., ., ., her. the shadow chancellor had an opportunity — her. the shadow chancellor had an opportunity this — her. the shadow chancellor had an opportunity this afternoon - her. the shadow chancellor had an opportunity this afternoon to - her. the shadow chancellor had an| opportunity this afternoon to admit what he had done, the legacy he had left, but instead, he takes no responsibility. word the country was looking for today was "sorry". the shadow chancellor could not find those words. no wonder the party opposite so definitively lost the trust of the british people at the

election three and a half weeks ago, and we say never again. never again should a party who plays fast and loose with the public finance should be in charge of the public finance. order. can ijust say be in charge of the public finance. order. can i just say to the whips, order. can ijust say to the whips, who hold — order. can ijust say to the whips, who hold responsible _ order. can ijust say to the whips, who hold responsible jobs, - order. can ijust say to the whips, who hold responsible jobs, and i. who hold responsible jobs, and i expect— who hold responsible jobs, and i expect you — who hold responsible jobs, and i expect you to _ who hold responsible jobs, and i expect you to keep _ who hold responsible jobs, and i expect you to keep them - who hold responsible jobs, and i expect you to keep them that i who hold responsible jobs, and i. expect you to keep them that way. just because — expect you to keep them that way. just because you _ expect you to keep them that way. just because you are _ expect you to keep them that way. just because you are at _ expect you to keep them that way. just because you are at the - expect you to keep them that way. just because you are at the end - expect you to keep them that way. just because you are at the end of| just because you are at the end of the bench — just because you are at the end of the bench doesn't _ just because you are at the end of the bench doesn't mean _ just because you are at the end of the bench doesn't mean you - just because you are at the end of the bench doesn't mean you need| just because you are at the end of. the bench doesn't mean you need to chant _ the bench doesn't mean you need to chant att— the bench doesn't mean you need to chant all the — the bench doesn't mean you need to chant all the way _ the bench doesn't mean you need to chant all the way through. _ the bench doesn't mean you need to chant all the way through. i - the bench doesn't mean you need to chant all the way through. i don't . chant all the way through. i don't need _ chant all the way through. idon't need as— chant all the way through. idon't need as they— chant all the way through. i don't need as they won't _ chant all the way through. i don't need as they won't put _ chant all the way through. i don't need as they won't put up - chant all the way through. i don't need as they won't put up it. - need as they won't put up it. chancettor _ chancellor. we - chancellor. we could . chancellor. i we could not chancellor. - we could not know chancellor. _ we could not know these chanceuor. — we could not know these numbers, because the party opposite did not tell the obi are these numbers. that is why we are in the position we are in today, and that is the biggest scandal of them all. the shadow chancellor asks about the estimates. the estimates that we laid yesterday, he should recognise, because he produced them. we had to lay those estimates to allow public spending to continue, but since there estimates were produced, information was given to us by treasury officials about the true scale of the overspending by the party opposite. and the shadow

chancellor mentions the ifs. but pauljohnson from the ifs hasjust said that it appears that these overspends are genuinely unfunded. the words of the independent institute for fiscal studies, which the shadow chancellor reference. the shadow chancellor asked what happened to the reserve. well, it was spent, shadow chancellor. it was spent by you three times over. that is why we are in the position of a £22 billion in year gap between spending that was happening and the funding to produce it. now, if you could do, if the shadow chancellor could do, if the shadow chancellor could do, if the shadow chancellor could do all the things he talked about today, why were they not in the forecast? if as he says, he was able to make those in year changes in welfare and productivity, they would have been in the forecast. they were not. on the issue of the pay review bodies, the previous government set the remit for the pay review bodies, but they refused to

give them any indication of affordability. that is almost unprecedented. the teachers reported before the election, and that recommendation sat on the former education secretary's desk. today, we are drawing a line on the industrial action. the £1.7 billion cost of the nhs alone last year, 1.4 million cancelled appointments, and we are incorporating a third of those pay increases into efficiencies into our public services, as the shadow chancellor suggested we should. and when it comes to tax, i am not going to take any lessons from the party opposite! the party opposite, who took the tax burden to the highest level in 70 years... we will leave the house of commons and the chancellor's statement for a moment, because we have some breaking news to bring you regarding the former bbc presenter hugh edwards. i'mjoined by the former bbc presenter hugh edwards. i'm joined by our entertainment correspondent who can tell you what it is.

—— huw edwards. yes, the former bbc presenter huw edwards has been charged with three offences of making indecent images offences of making indecent images of children, according to statements from the metropolitan police and from the metropolitan police and from the metropolitan police and from the crown prosecution service. the metropolitan police said that the cps authorised the charges after a metropolitan police investigation. they said mr edwards will appear at westminster magistrates' court this wednesday, the sist ofjuly, 2024. little more detail from the crown prosecution service: they say the offences are alleged to have taken place between december 2020 and april 2022, and relate to images shared on a whatsapp chat. they say hugh edwards was arrested on the 8th of november 2023. he was charged on wednesday the 26th ofjune, following authorisation from the crown prosecution service. huw edwards, the former bbc presenter, of course, for a long time one of the most prominent faces on the bbc,

presenting general election coverage, big royal occasions, big state occasions for many people, one of the best—known and most important faces of the corporation and also one of its highest—paid names. so, tojust repeat, that one of its highest—paid names. so, to just repeat, that breaking news, huw edwards, the former bbc presenter, has been charged with three offences of making indecent images of children. thank you very much. entertainment correspondent with that breaking news. must return to the house of commons and continue listening in to the chancellor rachel reeves' statement about public spending cuts. the lib dems' spokesperson. thank— the lib dems' spokesperson. thank you. _ the lib dems' spokesperson. thank you. mr— the lib dems' spokesperson. thank you, mr speaker, - the lib dems' spokesperson. thank you, mr speaker, and i the lib dems' spokesperson. | thank you, mr speaker, and i the lib dems' spokesperson. - thank you, mr speaker, and i thank the chancellor for advanced sight of her statement, and i want to associate _ her statement, and i want to associate myself with the statements made in _ associate myself with the statements made in tribute to the emergency

services _ made in tribute to the emergency services and in sympathy with those in southport. years of conservative mismanagement have left our economy on life _ mismanagement have left our economy on life support and in desperate need _ on life support and in desperate need of— on life support and in desperate need of emergency care, and things cannot— need of emergency care, and things cannot go— need of emergency care, and things cannot go on like this any longer. we must — cannot go on like this any longer. we must now revive growth by getting people _ we must now revive growth by getting people off _ we must now revive growth by getting people off nhs waiting list and back into work. _ people off nhs waiting list and back into work, so we urge the government to invest _ into work, so we urge the government to invest wisely in gps, dentists and hospitals, to not only support patients— and hospitals, to not only support patients but also to improve efficiency within the nhs and deliver— efficiency within the nhs and deliver the growth so desperately needed _ deliver the growth so desperately needed after years of conservative faiture~ _ failure. the outgoing failure. — the outgoing conservative failure. _ the outgoing conservative government will go _ the outgoing conservative government will go down in history books as one of the _ will go down in history books as one of the most — will go down in history books as one of the most damaging administrations our country— of the most damaging administrations our country has seen, and today's statement — our country has seen, and today's statement has thrown that picture into even— statement has thrown that picture into even more stark relief. it wasn't — into even more stark relief. it wasn'tjust_ into even more stark relief. it wasn'tjust their into even more stark relief. it wasn't just their catastrophic mini budget _ wasn't just their catastrophic mini budget. we saw a vicious cycle of stagnation — budget. we saw a vicious cycle of stagnation and recession driven by years— stagnation and recession driven by years of— stagnation and recession driven by years of chaos and uncertainty. for the first _ years of chaos and uncertainty. for the first time, living standards dectined — the first time, living standards declined over the course of a parliament as people experience the harshest— parliament as people experience the harshest cost of living crisis in generations. our public services were _ generations. our public services were abandoned, waiting lists

soared. — were abandoned, waiting lists soared, school scrambled and our social— soared, school scrambled and our social care — soared, school scrambled and our social care is in crisis. the dire state _ social care is in crisis. the dire state in — social care is in crisis. the dire state in which the conservatives have _ state in which the conservatives have left — state in which the conservatives have left our public finances is indicative _ have left our public finances is indicative of their responsibility. peopte — indicative of their responsibility. people are painfully aware that conservative chaos has real life consequences. interest rates were sent soaring, and millions of people saw mortgage payments increased by hundreds— saw mortgage payments increased by hundreds of pounds a month. that's why. _ hundreds of pounds a month. that's why. more _ hundreds of pounds a month. that's why, more than ever, we need to foster— why, more than ever, we need to foster economic stability, to draw a line foster economic stability, to draw a tine under— foster economic stability, to draw a line under the uncertainty of the last two— line under the uncertainty of the last two years. an important step in rebuilding _ last two years. an important step in rebuilding confidence in our economy is to set— rebuilding confidence in our economy is to set up— rebuilding confidence in our economy is to set up a — rebuilding confidence in our economy is to set up a long—term industrial strategy~ — is to set up a long—term industrial strategy it— is to set up a long—term industrial strategy. it will help to unlock vitat _ strategy. it will help to unlock vital investment, create good jobs, and help— vital investment, create good jobs, and help us— vital investment, create good jobs, and help us tackle the climate emergency. so will the chancellor reassure — emergency. so will the chancellor reassure themselves that the government will start work on an industrial— government will start work on an industrial strategy as soon as practically possible? we _ practically possible? we cannot talk about rebuilding our economy without talking about the crisis in health and social care. millions have a long—term health condition, making them too ill to work, and millions more are stuck in nhs waiting lists. many others can't

leave hospital, because there is no care provision. the liberal democrats have always understood that we cannot have a thriving economy— that we cannot have a thriving economy and strong public finances until we _ economy and strong public finances until we fix— economy and strong public finances until we fix the crisis in health and social— until we fix the crisis in health and social care, and that's why we put forward — and social care, and that's why we put forward detailed proposals to deliver— put forward detailed proposals to deliver more gps, invest in dental services _ deliver more gps, invest in dental services and cut ambulance waiting times _ services and cut ambulance waiting times. equally, we must give people the good _ times. equally, we must give people the good quality care they deserve. so we _ the good quality care they deserve. so we urge — the good quality care they deserve. so we urge the government to work across— so we urge the government to work across party lines to implement a system of — across party lines to implement a system of free personal care and -ive system of free personal care and give our — system of free personal care and give our unpaid carers the proper support— give our unpaid carers the proper support they need. the last conservative administration left peopte — conservative administration left people with crippling care costs, and that — people with crippling care costs, and that is — people with crippling care costs, and that is why it is urgent that we have _ and that is why it is urgent that we have cross—party talks on social care, _ have cross—party talks on social care, and — have cross—party talks on social care, and i_ have cross—party talks on social care, and i urge the government to begin— care, and i urge the government to begin those — care, and i urge the government to begin those as soon as we possibly can. investing in health and care isn't _ can. investing in health and care isn'tjust— can. investing in health and care isn'tjust about giving can. investing in health and care isn't just about giving people a fair deat— isn't just about giving people a fair deal they deserve. it is also about— fair deal they deserve. it is also about sound management of our public finances _ about sound management of our public finances so— about sound management of our public finances. so will the chancellor guarantee that the nhs and social care witt— guarantee that the nhs and social care will be at the heart of her plans — care will be at the heart of her plans to — care will be at the heart of her plans to address the conservative party's _ plans to address the conservative party's legacy of mismanagement?

party's legacy of mismanagement? part of— party's legacy of mismanagement? part of that legacy is the previous government's promise to deliver 40 new hospitals, postponed, redefined and never— new hospitals, postponed, redefined and never properly funded. this turned — and never properly funded. this turned out _ and never properly funded. this turned out to be yet another anti—conservative promise, but having — anti—conservative promise, but having listened to many colleagues on these _ having listened to many colleagues on these benches over the last few years. _ on these benches over the last few years, there are clearly hospitals that are — years, there are clearly hospitals that are in — years, there are clearly hospitals that are in dire need of investment. crumbting _ that are in dire need of investment. crumbling roofs, buckets to catch the leaks — crumbling roofs, buckets to catch the leaks. so will she meet with those _ the leaks. so will she meet with those numbers his constituents will be affected by today's announcement to hear— be affected by today's announcement to hear directly the situation in their— to hear directly the situation in their particular hospitals? lastly, let me _ their particular hospitals? lastly, let me turn to securing the public funding _ let me turn to securing the public funding our services desperately need _ funding our services desperately need. overthe funding our services desperately need. over the last parliament, we saw the _ need. over the last parliament, we saw the conservative party raise taxes _ saw the conservative party raise taxes on — saw the conservative party raise taxes on hard—working households again— taxes on hard—working households again and — taxes on hard—working households again and againjust taxes on hard—working households again and again just to pay for its own mistakes. so will the chancellor agree _ own mistakes. so will the chancellor agree with _ own mistakes. so will the chancellor agree with me that it would be unfair— agree with me that it would be unfair to— agree with me that it would be unfair to ask working people to pick up unfair to ask working people to pick up the _ unfair to ask working people to pick up the tab— unfair to ask working people to pick up the tab a second time after they have already suffered three years of painful— have already suffered three years of painful tax _ have already suffered three years of painful tax rises? my party has set out detailed proposals to raise funding — out detailed proposals to raise funding for our public services and

a fair— funding for our public services and a fair way, — funding for our public services and a fair way, for example, funding for our public services and a fairway, for example, by reversing _ a fairway, for example, by reversing the conservatives' tax cuts _ reversing the conservatives' tax cuts with — reversing the conservatives' tax cuts with big banks, putting in place — cuts with big banks, putting in place a — cuts with big banks, putting in place a proper windfall tax on oil and gas — place a proper windfall tax on oil and gas producers and raising a digital— and gas producers and raising a digital service tax on social media giants~ _ digital service tax on social media giants~ i_ digital service tax on social media giants. i urge the chancellor to draw— giants. i urge the chancellor to draw from _ giants. i urge the chancellor to draw from these ideas, which could raise _ draw from these ideas, which could raise billions by asking some of the biggest _ raise billions by asking some of the biggest companies in the world to pay their— biggest companies in the world to pay theirfair share. there is no doubt _ pay theirfair share. there is no doubt our— pay theirfair share. there is no doubt our economy, public services and public— doubt our economy, public services and public finances have been left in a precarious position. now the hard _ in a precarious position. now the hard work— in a precarious position. now the hard work must be done to repair the damage _ hard work must be done to repair the damage and — hard work must be done to repair the damage and return stability, growth and prosperity to our country. that is what _ and prosperity to our country. that is what the — and prosperity to our country. that is what the lib dems will wish champion, and we sincerely hope that the government will look closely at our proposals to end the crisis in health— our proposals to end the crisis in health and — our proposals to end the crisis in health and social care, grow our economy— health and social care, grow our economy and give people a fair deal. thank— economy and give people a fair deal. thank you _ thank you. i— thank you. i think the honourable lady for thank you. — i think the honourable lady for her contribution and particularly the theme about helping people into work on fixing our national health service. i also totally agree with the honourable lady about the immense damage that the tory mini budget did, particularly in pushing

up budget did, particularly in pushing up mortgage costs were so many of our constituents. the honourable lady asks about industrial strategy. my lady asks about industrial strategy. my right honourable friend the business and trade secretary will be setting out more details of the modern industrial strategy so we can work in partnership with business to exploit the big opportunities we haveis exploit the big opportunities we have is a country and as an economy for growth and prosperity in all parts of the uk. the honourable lady asks about health and social care. she is absolutely right to highlight the huge challenge of waiting list, 7.6 million when the conservatives left office. i welcome the deal to get thejunior doctors left office. i welcome the deal to get the junior doctors back to work, and i'm sure the whole country will, because it will mean that people can actually get operations and treatment when they need it, and after the cost last year to the nhs and our economy of £1.7 billion of industrial action and £1.4 —— 1.4 million appointments mist, this will be welcome to those on those nhs waiting list. we have made that

commitment to additional appointments every week and the health service and this government, which is why we will crack down on tax avoidance and ensure that finally, non—dom is to make their home in britain pay theirfair share of tax year in britain. my right honourable friend the health secretary will meet with constituents who are affected by the faulty hospital betrayal from the previous government, because we recognise, as the honourable lady says, the importance of ensuring all our constituents have the health services that they deserve. and i couldn't agree more with the honourable lady that it should not be working people who pick up the tab of the conservative party failure. that is why i restated our commitment today not to increase taxes on working people. no income tax, national insurance increases or vat. that's the commitment we campaigned on, and i stand by that commitment. let's leave the house of commons there with the chancellor standing up, explaining her decisions regarding cuts to public services. she said at the beginning that she had inherited a £22 billion

overspend for this year from the conservatives, money that they haven't funded but had committed to, and were undisclosed, she claims. the outgoing chancellor, the shadow chancellorjeremy hunt, taking issue with that, saying that of course she knew, it was transparent from the offset. our political correspondent, helen catt is here. so is our business editor simon jack. it has been cordial until now, helen, the temperature has gone up? yes, and it has gone up markedly, hasn't it? some pretty serious claims in those debates. the first i will pick out is rachel reeves' claim that not only did she working and day one to an existing £22 billion black hole in the finances, but she has also claimed that was not known about because the government hadn't told the office for budget responsibility, which produces the forecasts in the march budget. so that is quite a serious claim she is making, that the government didn't give the right figures, effectively fiddled the figures, effectively fiddled the

figures, to the ob r, who then make public forecast in which everybody else relies. so that is one very strong claim she is making there. you then have... the other things i will pick out from what she said at the commitment to some more spending that she talked about there. she confirmed as we thought she would that she will accept the pay review body's recommendations for public sector workers of an above inflation pay rise. jeremy hunt saying to her that... making it clear that the last government didn't have that recommendation on their desk apart from for the teachers, and the other thing politically that i think is most striking out of that was the decision to scrap the winter fuel allowance for pensioners who are not on pension credit. that is a really eye—catching announcement, the sort of political move that a government only really has the capital to do right at the start of its term, and i think it is also striking that she wants to tie that to an inheritance left of the conservatives. —— not

striking. because the conservatives draw quite a lot of their vote from an older demographic. it is the sort of move they would never have made. so she is keen to say, look, it is theirfault. the one so she is keen to say, look, it is their fault. the one other thing so she is keen to say, look, it is theirfault. the one other thing i think i should say there is that jeremy hunt, in responding, has suggested that this is a political budget, not an economic one. now we actually have the detail, we can have economists looking at it and more people will be able to make a judgment on that. irate more people will be able to make a judgment on that.— judgment on that. we will do that throu . hout judgment on that. we will do that throughout the _ judgment on that. we will do that throughout the afternoon - judgment on that. we will do that throughout the afternoon here . judgment on that. we will do that throughout the afternoon here on j judgment on that. we will do that - throughout the afternoon here on bbc news. simon, before rachel reeves stood up in the house of commons, you were saying that this was a moment for her to show that she is serious about getting a grip on the finances. sending a message to the markets. how do you think she did that? yes, she was basically having to send _ yes, she was basically having to send a _ yes, she was basically having to send a message that, given the overspend, which they were not hitherto — overspend, which they were not hitherto aware of, trailed us 20 billion, — hitherto aware of, trailed us 20 billion, coming in at £22 billion, and they— billion, coming in at £22 billion, and they did not tell the office for budget— and they did not tell the office for budget responsibility, so there was a reat— budget responsibility, so there was a real charge, as helen was saying there. _ a real charge, as helen was saying there. of— a real charge, as helen was saying there. of a — a real charge, as helen was saying there, of a lack of transparency with— there, of a lack of transparency with the — there, of a lack of transparency with the budget watchdog, and they have made some changes now, of which

is probably— have made some changes now, of which is probably the most significant announced today. she has to send the message, _ announced today. she has to send the message, if— announced today. she has to send the message, if we can't afford it, were — message, if we can't afford it, were not _ message, if we can't afford it, we're not going to do it, and we won't _ we're not going to do it, and we won't ftinch _ we're not going to do it, and we won't flinch from those tough decisions. whatjeremy hunt came back and _ decisions. whatjeremy hunt came back and said, by the way, you didn't— back and said, by the way, you didn't have _ back and said, by the way, you didn't have to. it wasn't part of the pay— didn't have to. it wasn't part of the pay review body that you had to -ive the pay review body that you had to give a _ the pay review body that you had to give a 22% — the pay review body that you had to give a 22% increase over two years the junior— give a 22% increase over two years the junior doctors. give a 22% increase over two years thejunior doctors. he give a 22% increase over two years the junior doctors. he accused her of caving — the junior doctors. he accused her of caving to— the junior doctors. he accused her of caving to the unions, and that was a _ of caving to the unions, and that was a political choice on her part. but i _ was a political choice on her part. but i think— was a political choice on her part. but i think what was probably, if you like. — but i think what was probably, if you like, we are looking for a bank of england — you like, we are looking for a bank of england independence moment back from i997~ _ of england independence moment back from 1997. there was this pledge that the — from 1997. there was this pledge that the treasury would have to share _ that the treasury would have to share detailed spending review with the opr _ share detailed spending review with the opr and these three—year spending reviews would have to be refreshed — spending reviews would have to be refreshed so that there was a two-year— refreshed so that there was a two—year visibility, you could see two—year visibility, you could see two years — two—year visibility, you could see two years in— two—year visibility, you could see two years in advance about when the money _ two years in advance about when the money was _ two years in advance about when the money was going to run out, so you didn't_ money was going to run out, so you didn't get— money was going to run out, so you didn't get these moments about when they get— didn't get these moments about when they get into office and find out there _ they get into office and find out there is— they get into office and find out there is no money left in the ten. those _ there is no money left in the ten. those were — there is no money left in the ten. those were some moments that were

picked _ those were some moments that were picked out _ those were some moments that were picked out for me, and a very hot dispute _ picked out for me, and a very hot dispute about whether there was real transparency. jeremy hunt saying, you could _ transparency. jeremy hunt saying, you could have got this information anytime _ you could have got this information anytime wanted. talk to the chief secretary— anytime wanted. talk to the chief secretary to the treasury, that information was available to you. but i _ information was available to you. but i witt— information was available to you. but i will say that the obr has written — but i will say that the obr has written in the last hour to say that they were — written in the last hour to say that they were not aware of the spending shortfatt _ they were not aware of the spending shortfall pressures until last week, so that— shortfall pressures until last week, so that would tend to back up what rachet _ so that would tend to back up what rachel reeves was saying. simon _ rachel reeves was saying. simon and helen, forthe moment, simon and helen, for the moment, thank you very much. of course, during the election campaign, we heard a lot from rachel reeves about how she was going to make sure that she would never spend what we can't afford, she said. i will introduce a new set of fiscal rules which will apply to every decision taken by a labour government. as we have heard already, the shadow chancellor jeremy hunt taking issue with that, as we were just saying. he is questioning whether those public sector pay review recommendations really need to be adhered to.

let's speak to lord wood, stuart wood, former treasury adviser and an adviser to gordon brown and ed miliband. thanks very much for joining us here on college green. first of all, let's get you sorted out. thank you so much! so nice to be able to hear our guests. we have already got an accusation here that rachel reeves has broken the trust of the public from jeremy hunt by claiming that she didn't know what the state of the finances were when it was plain for her to see? i were when it was plain for her to see? ~ �* . were when it was plain for her to see? ,, �*, ., ., ., ~' see? i think it's important to work out what it's _ see? i think it's important to work out what it's impossible _ see? i think it's important to work out what it's impossible to - see? i think it's important to work out what it's impossible to know l out what it's impossible to know when you're not in government and what isn't. what is possible to know is what the obr, the office for budget responsibility projects the amount of tax revenue to be. it is possible to work out the total amount the government says it wants to spend. but it is not possible to work out individual programmes, and whether the commitments, the policies government has made are properly funded, and in general, this is a normal part of government in the normal course of things, things like pupil numbers changing,

which means the amount of money going into school has to change. all these things are normal. what rachel reeves is accusing jeremy hunt of the day, and it is quite a brutal accusation, is that there were commitments made and money hidden knowingly, and the office for budget responsibility seems to be confirming that they were not aware of money in the last few months that was not declared to them. that is quite a serious accusation over and above the general problem of some things which are promised to the public not being properly funded. if we look at some of the things rachel reeves has said have now got to go, some of it is to do with infrastructure projects. if the labour government wants to be a government of growth, you have got to invest, surely. how will you square that circle, reducing the amount of investment in infrastructure projects, which are good for jobs infrastructure projects, which are good forjobs in business, and the economy, and yet you still say you are the party of growth?

technically, if you promise to build something but don't have the money to do it, you aren't... your waking up to do it, you aren't... your waking up to the reality don't have the money. she could go through every existing programme and agreed to backfill it with money now, what she wants to clearly do is get the public finances sorted first, get on with the business of deregulating planning and make it easier to invest and build and then go to the business of actually setting up the project. i think that sequence makes sense, personally. it isn't really a cut if something doesn't have money behind it, if it wasjust cut if something doesn't have money behind it, if it was just an announcement rather than being properly funded and that is clearly what some of these projects have been like. what some of these pro'ects have been like. ., what some of these pro'ects have been like. ,, , ., , �* ., been like. she said she doesn't want to send been like. she said she doesn't want to spend money _ been like. she said she doesn't want to spend money she _ been like. she said she doesn't want to spend money she hasn't - been like. she said she doesn't want to spend money she hasn't got - been like. she said she doesn't want to spend money she hasn't got and l to spend money she hasn't got and yet wejust to spend money she hasn't got and yet we just heard that its commitment to a 22% pay rise over two years for public sector workers, they would say that we have had very little in the pay rises for the last 14 years, they could justify it and argue for it but asjeremy hunt says, she doesn't need to do this so she has committed, he reckons, to

£24 billion of spending in 24 days,