are the party of growth? technically, if you promise to build something but don't have the money to do it, you aren't... your waking up to do it, you aren't... your waking up to the reality don't have the money. she could go through every existing programme and agreed to backfill it with money now, what she wants to clearly do is get the public finances sorted first, get on with the business of deregulating planning and make it easier to invest and build and then go to the business of actually setting up the project. i think that sequence makes sense, personally. it isn't really a cut if something doesn't have money behind it, if it wasjust cut if something doesn't have money behind it, if it was just an announcement rather than being properly funded and that is clearly what some of these projects have been like. what some of these pro'ects have been like. ,, , ., , �* ., been like. she said she doesn't want to send been like. she said she doesn't want to spend money _ been like. she said she doesn't want to spend money she _ been like. she said she doesn't want to spend money she hasn't - been like. she said she doesn't want to spend money she hasn't got - been like. she said she doesn't want to spend money she hasn't got and l to spend money she hasn't got and yet wejust to spend money she hasn't got and yet we just heard that its commitment to a 22% pay rise over two years for public sector workers, they would say that we have had very little in the pay rises for the last 14 little in the pay rises for the last 1a years, they could justify it and argue for it but asjeremy hunt says, she doesn't need to do this so she has committed, he reckons, to

£24 billion of spending in 24 days, a great deal of that she doesn't actually have to commit to so why is she doing it? the actually have to commit to so why is she doing it?— she doing it? the gb energy announcement _ she doing it? the gb energy announcement and - she doing it? the gb energy announcement and the - she doing it? the gb energy i announcement and the national she doing it? the gb energy _ announcement and the national wealth fund announcement were in the investor and costed and trailed. meeting the pay claims of the independent pay review bodies and settling thejunior independent pay review bodies and settling the junior doctors dispute is a choice, she is making a choice and doing it because she thinks that the retention and quality and investment in professionals is important if you want to sort out the chronic problem of waiting lists and related problems in other public services. that is definitely a choice so what she's doing is quite interestingly mixing a message about sorting out the public finances with a priority she is putting forward when it comes to pay for key public service workers.— service workers. stewart wood, former adviser _ service workers. stewart wood, former adviser to _ service workers. stewart wood, former adviser to the _ service workers. stewart wood, former adviser to the treasury, | former adviser to the treasury, thank you very much a talking to us on bbc news this afternoon. a lot as we were saying for economists to chew over in that statement from rachel reeves today. let's begin

that process now with jonathan portes, professor of economics at king's college london. professor portes, thank you very much for joining us this afternoon. your first thoughts? i joining us this afternoon. your first thoughts?— first thoughts? i have to say i think that _ first thoughts? i have to say i think that like _ first thoughts? i have to say i think that like everybody - first thoughts? i have to say i | think that like everybody else, first thoughts? i have to say i - think that like everybody else, all economists knew that the previous government's tax and spending plans didn't add up and many of us thought that labour were being unwise to commit to stick to them and that was something of a hostage fortune but i think none of the house and you see that in the reaction from others realised the sheer scale of the hidden skeletons that have come out of the closet today. the idea that the government concealed more than a £6 billion overspend on the rwanda plan on asylum, i think i have said before to the bbc that i thought the rwanda plan was an expensive gimmick that would achieve nothing but make

it increasing suffering of asylum seekers and it turns out now they are going to spend this year an extra £6 billion because of rwanda and because of the government's refusal to process asylum seekers. i think that is really a degree of incompetence and mismanagement that even of us outside didn't expect so that was a bit of a shock. but of course, the fact that this is directly down to the incompetence and mismanagement of the previous government does mean it is still rachel reeves and indeed the whole country's problem now and i think broadly what she has announced today is actually quite sensible, ending the winter fuel payment for pensioners who are not poor or on means tested benefits i think is a broadly sensible measure, it probably inflicts relatively little pain so i think that is probably a sensible thing to do and some of the other measures she is doing i think

are genuinely attempting to make savings without doing too much damage to growth. the big test will be, you alluded to this in your discussion with stewart wood, is is she still going to be able to get the investment in infrastructure for the investment in infrastructure for the public investment that we actually need to get growth? while i agreed with most of what stewart wood said, the idea you get growth first and then use that to finance investment is, in my view and i think of most economists, the wrong way round. let think of most economists, the wrong wa round. ., ~ , ., think of most economists, the wrong wa round. ., ~ i. ,., . ~ think of most economists, the wrong wa round. .,~ ., way round. let me take you back to the fi . ure way round. let me take you back to the figure of— way round. let me take you back to the figure of £22 _ way round. let me take you back to the figure of £22 billion. _ way round. let me take you back to the figure of £22 billion. it - way round. let me take you back to the figure of £22 billion. it may - way round. let me take you back to the figure of £22 billion. it may be l the figure of £22 billion. it may be simplistic but go with me on this, surely if rachel reeves was prepared to reverse the cut to national insurance which has cost about £20 billion, you find that money in one fell swoop? billion, you find that money in one fell swoon?— fell swoop? yes, you would and i think many _ fell swoop? yes, you would and i think many of— fell swoop? yes, you would and i think many of us, _ fell swoop? yes, you would and i think many of us, most _ fell swoop? yes, you would and i i think many of us, most economists, thought the cut to national insurance was a completely

unnecessary, damaging and fiscally imprudent decision when the previous government did it and if i and paul johnson and others were actually running the country, we would reverse it. but then we didn't have to stand for election and labour obviously pledged rightly or wrongly, made a very firm commitment not to reverse it. that isn't what i would have done but then i wasn't standing for election. you mention the fact that _ standing for election. you mention the fact that the _ standing for election. you mention the fact that the office _ standing for election. you mention the fact that the office for - standing for election. you mention the fact that the office for budget | the fact that the office for budget responsibility is responding to the fact that it didn't know about some of these spending commitments that were underfunded, especially that £6.4 billion overspend on asylum. how can that happen? what is the point, if you like, of having an obr if they are not privy to all of the information they need in order to make decisions?— information they need in order to make decisions? ~ �* ., , make decisions? well, the obr has... which i think, — make decisions? well, the obr has... which i think, it _ make decisions? well, the obr has... which i think, it was _ make decisions? well, the obr has... which i think, it was the _ make decisions? well, the obr has... which i think, it was the best - make decisions? well, the obr has... which i think, it was the best thing - which i think, it was the best thing george osborne did in many ways, it is an excellent institution but it has a limited remit set by george

osborne and a limited number of staff and in particular, while it does have a remit to crawl over what the treasury says about tax revenues and the impact of tax changes, it doesn't have that remit when it comes to public spending. for the most part, it has to accept what the government says about public spending is true, even when, as the chairman of the obr said a few months ago, those plans are worse than fictional, that is what he said about those plans but he didn't have the remit to actually... no indeed the remit to actually... no indeed the staff to actually get under the books. that wasn't his job, the staff to actually get under the books. that wasn't hisjob, at the staff to actually get under the books. that wasn't his job, at least up books. that wasn't his job, at least up to now. to books. that wasn't his “ob, at least up to now.— up to now. to what extent do you think we were _ up to now. to what extent do you think we were being _ up to now. to what extent do you think we were being softened - up to now. to what extent do you think we were being softened up| think we were being softened up today for tax increases down the track? i today for tax increases down the track? ~ . , today for tax increases down the track? ~' , , ., track? i think it is extremely hard to look at the _ track? i think it is extremely hard to look at the scale _ track? i think it is extremely hard to look at the scale of _ track? i think it is extremely hard to look at the scale of the - track? i think it is extremely hard to look at the scale of the public. to look at the scale of the public spending pressures, both the ones we already knew about and the extra ones which were revealed today and not think that realistically taxes

have to go up. indeed, it is quite clearfrom looking at have to go up. indeed, it is quite clear from looking at the numbers have to go up. indeed, it is quite clearfrom looking at the numbers in the statement that we have this £22 billion of extra spending pressures, they have made some savings like the winter fuel payment that will partially fill that gap but there is quite a significant gap still to come so i think we can assume there will be further tax rises, absolutely.— will be further tax rises, absolutel. ., ., ., absolutely. professorjonathan portes from — absolutely. professorjonathan portes from king's _ absolutely. professorjonathan portes from king's college - absolutely. professorjonathan - portes from king's college london, always good to get your insight, thank you very much forjoining us here on bbc news this afternoon. thank you. let's turn our attention out of the other developing story that has broken today with at least eight people having suffered stab injuries in what has been described as a major incident in southport. the ambulance service say that children were among the victims in that incident. letsjoin children were among the victims in that incident. lets join our correspondent nick garnet. what is the latest

there was gold at 11:50am this lunchtime, there was a stabbing in an area ., , ., an area down the road behind me and offer little business _ an area down the road behind me and offer little business park. _ an area down the road behind me and offer little business park. it _ an area down the road behind me and offer little business park. it was - an area down the road behind me and offer little business park. it was a - offer little business park. it was a children's yoga and dance class that was being held. they were listening to taylor swift songs, probably the highlight of their week in terms of thing they had been looking forward to, the first week of the school holidays and the children there were years to —6 so primary school aged children. at least eight people have been injured in the attack, one person has been arrested here at the scene and has been taken away by the police. a knife is said to have been recovered as well. of those eight people injured, we don't know how many of them were children at the moment but we do know that children were involved. some of the injured were taken to alder hey children's hospital which is the specialist children's hospital in this area and thatis children's hospital in this area and that is not the nearest children's hospital either and so they were

very seriously injured and have been taken for treatment there. the air ambulance came as well to ferry those that were injured to hospital as well and because there is doctors on board that, they were able to treat some of those injured. the first emergency service was provided here by the fire service and they provided both first aid and also got those inside out to safety as well. now, our colleagues at bbc radio 5 live have been speaking to a man called colin parry, he says he works on this street and he saw a man in a facemask refusing to pay a taxi driver before fleeing the scene stop a few moments later, he got a call from one of the other employees in the shop and said something that had happened there and he had to come immediately. he said he saw children who had been injured, called the police and told them to get him now. from that point onwards at 11:50am, this lunchtime, there has been a huge police operation here, it has overtaken two schools nearby, full

at the moment of emergency services. it is where the families of those children who were here, some of those who were injured and some of those who were injured and some of those who were not badly injured, were taken first of all and that is the main headquarters for this police operation, probably about one quarter of a mile away from where we are at the moment but you can see behind me that down at the bottom of the road there are flashing lights, thatis the road there are flashing lights, that is the area of the police operation is continuing to focus on and that is where the forensic science teams and the police are concentrating all their work this afternoon. . ~ concentrating all their work this afternoon. w' ., concentrating all their work this afternoon. a ., ., afternoon. nick, for the moment, thank ou afternoon. nick, for the moment, thank you very — afternoon. nick, for the moment, thank you very much. _ afternoon. nick, for the moment, thank you very much. nick- afternoon. nick, for the moment, thank you very much. nick garnet j thank you very much. nick garnet with the latest there from southport and just to remind you, there is much more on that story, there is a live page on the bbc news website and the bbc news app if you would like to follow it as it unfolds. let's return them to reaction to the statement by the chancellor rachel reeves. we were hearing from her earlier that she says the previous government had unfunded and undisclosed £22 billion of extra

spending for this year alone and so she has taken a south to certain projects. one of them is a transport projects. one of them is a transport project that is going to be scrapped, work on the a303, better known as the stonehenge tunnel. let's speak to john known as the stonehenge tunnel. let's speak tojohn adams who is the chairman of the stonehenge alliance, also part of safe stonehenge world heritage site from top thank you very much forjoining us. the people who haven't followed all the twist and turns of this project, briefly explain what this tunnel was designed to do. the explain what this tunnel was designed to do.— explain what this tunnel was designed to do. the tunnel was desi . ned designed to do. the tunnel was designed to _ designed to do. the tunnel was designed to prevent _ designed to do. the tunnel was designed to prevent congestion within the world heritage site. it is the first section of road after the mthrough that goes down to single carriageway and at that point, it is where you first see the stones standing on salisbury plain so everyone slows down, firstly because they are going onto a single carriageway and secondly because they see the stones and want to look

at it but it was a bad scheme always, it was a bad dealfor taxpayers, it was unaffordable, it was a tory vanity project that has been around since about 2014 and we have been fighting development within that world heritage site for more than 20 years and so you can imagine we welcome this if i can say so, we are delighted. but imagine we welcome this if i can say so, we are delighted.— so, we are delighted. but of course many people _ so, we are delighted. but of course many people think _ so, we are delighted. but of course many people think the _ so, we are delighted. but of course many people think the congestion i many people think the congestion needs addressing would say this is a neat solution and archaeologists have said that in archaeological terms, you won't cause any damage because the tunnel was going to go so deep beneath the stones so why did you think it wasn't an acceptable solution to congestion along the road of the type you have just described?— just described? because the tunnel would have been _ just described? because the tunnel would have been 3.3 _ just described? because the tunnel would have been 3.3 kilometres . just described? because the tunnel. would have been 3.3 kilometres long and at the world heritage site is 5.4 kilometres wide and so at either end, you would have this deep long cuttings leading down to the tunnel. at the western end, it would be

something like the equivalent size of 14 football pitches would be lost. thousands, hundreds of thousands of archaeological artefacts would be lost and the landscape would be changed forever. the planning inspectors, the government's own planning inspectors recommended strongly they should not go ahead because it would cause permanent and irreversible harm to the world heritage site but nevertheless, two transport secretaries, tory transport secretary, decided to go ahead with it despite acknowledging it would cause harm. there is congestion locally and nobody likes to be held up locally and nobody likes to be held up but let's, for goodness' sake, have a proper scheme that is a strategic response to traffic congestion across the wider area. the conservative leader of wiltshire council, who backs these plans, said he would be furious if it didn't go ahead in a recent interview and he said we have already spent three

months this year with the a360 closed to enable electricity cables to become installed for the contraction of the tunnel for sub to put all that work in and to have the disruption and then not to decide to fix one of the worst hotspot in the country would be lunacy. if you aren't going to fix it this way, how aren't going to fix it this way, how are you going to fix it?— aren't going to fix it this way, how are you going to fix it? there are a rante of are you going to fix it? there are a range of other _ are you going to fix it? there are a range of other solutions _ are you going to fix it? there are a range of other solutions which - range of other solutions which national highway know well about but they have been completely to the scheme. regarding the closure of the a360 to lay these power cables, we said at the time that national highways was acting prematurely. they should not have been doing that. that cost £11 million. they have spent almost £200 million on developing this. it has been a tory vanity project. there are alternatives, a bypass to the north, to the south, much softer, lower intensive solutions locally to do

with traffic management. wiltshire council, in fact, with traffic management. wiltshire council, infact, could with traffic management. wiltshire council, in fact, could do much more to prevent road through local villages than it is doing at present. villages than it is doing at resent. , . villages than it is doing at present-— villages than it is doing at resent. , ., ., , ., present. just one final question, how likely _ present. just one final question, how likely is _ present. just one final question, how likely is it _ present. just one final question, how likely is it you _ present. just one final question, how likely is it you think - present. just one final question, how likely is it you think that - present. just one final question, | how likely is it you think that this is the end of this tunnel project? of the court of appeal might have to have some involvement in its later in the year. is it scrapped orjust pause in your mind? ida; in the year. is it scrapped or 'ust pause in your mind?i pause in your mind? no, it is cancelled- — pause in your mind? no, it is cancelled. we _ pause in your mind? no, it is cancelled. we have - pause in your mind? no, it is cancelled. we have seen - pause in your mind? no, it is cancelled. we have seen the | pause in your mind? no, it is - cancelled. we have seen the small print in the document and it sells definitely that it is cancelled along with another road scheme on the a307i think it is. along with another road scheme on the a3071 think it is. so it is cancelled, that isn't to say a future government wouldn't bring it back but it already doesn't stack up, the economics are franklyjust fantasy economics. —— a37 full every year that goes past it is more expensive so it is not going to work . the government needs to completely rethink this local congestion. john