back jinx anything because getting back to home for them is so important. they haven't seen him for a very long time. he has children in the united states and people are desperate to see him home as well as the families of all the other people who have been mentioned as possible prisoners to be released in what we believe could be a massive exchange. you are absolutely right to not confirm. we don't know his whereabouts. one of the names loads of people will know that has been confirmed from the biden administration as evan gershkovich. tells a bit about the campaign to see him freed. he is a journalist, like me he was accredited to work in russia. i was expeued accredited to work in russia. i was expelled after the invasion of ukraine he was arrested and accused of espionage while he was doing his job as a journalist. he of espionage while he was doing his job as a journalist.— job as a “ournalist. he and his friends job as a journalist. he and his friends and _ job as a journalist. he and his friends and family _ job as a journalist. he and his friends and family and - job as a journalist. he and his - friends and family and newspaper and employer have always been adamant

that the charges against him as i have described it are observed, that he is not a spy, he is a journalist and his arrest they argue very firmly is simply a sign of the crackdown on free speech and free expression and on the freedom of the press inside russia, and that he himself was always a political hostage taken because russia wanted a trade. ultimately that is what has happened. he spent more than a year in prison. a young journalist, extremely ambitious, just in a new job with the wall streetjournal, extremely good at thatjob. he was then arrested. it now looks like he is going to be heading home. i know there have been a huge number of his friends. otherjournalists and people who work with him in moscow and elsewhere have been campaigning and elsewhere have been campaigning and getting people to write letters and getting people to write letters and translating those letters tirelessly, even one of his friends reading books together with him in prison, sending books to him and then reading them to get pacific because of bricks. anything to try and make the time go faster because

he was convicted and sentenced to a 16 year prison turn in russia. as it turns out he has served just over a year but of course every day of that must have been agony both for him and his relatives and friends. star; and his relatives and friends. stay with us. sarah _ and his relatives and friends. stay with us. sarah raynsford in berlin. she has detailed knowledge of the story as does our securities correspond in frank gardner. what are you hearing? this correspond in frank gardner. what are you hearing?— are you hearing? this is the most extraordinary _ are you hearing? this is the most extraordinary breakthrough - are you hearing? this is the most extraordinary breakthrough in - extraordinary breakthrough in prisoner swaps, extraordinary breakthrough in prisonerswaps, one extraordinary breakthrough in prisoner swaps, one of the most extraordinary in recent history. but be the biggest one since 2010 when 14 people were released in prisoner exchange. rememberthis 14 people were released in prisoner exchange. remember this involves several countries. russia, the us, germany, potentially belarus, slovenia and britain. how behind—the—scenes, at a time when the west is helping ukraine fight a full—scale war with russia, contacts have been maintained between

intelligence sources and it looks like the omens are pretty good for a full—scale prisoner exchange. it is very important to say it hasn't happened yet but the fact the white house is confirming it is being, it is on the cards, it has been planned and i have named people is pretty significant. but these things can sometimes break down right at the last minute. let us know when it is nations involved and more so when it is kidnapping by bandits and so on, but it is fascinating that clearly despite the incredibly bad relations between the west and russia, as sarah raynsford was mentioning there, both sides want something out of this, particularly a losing... they are simply being used as political pawns to trade, who for one reason or another, the west has imprisoned. one of the people that russia definitely wants back is

nadeem chris a cup, and fsb... one of the three russian intelligence agencies. he has been life sentence in germany for the murder in a berlin park of a chechnya georgian dissident, known as the bicycle merger. shot at close range. this characterjumped a wake that he was wearing and the weapon into the river nearby but they were recovered. he was arrested and charged and sentenced. president putin has actually alluded to him in that so—called interview that he did with tucker carlson some months ago in which he said he is a russian patriot, and words to the effect of we would like and back.— patriot, and words to the effect of we would like and back. sarah was ve clear we would like and back. sarah was very clear in _ we would like and back. sarah was very clear in pointing _ we would like and back. sarah was very clear in pointing out - we would like and back. sarah was very clear in pointing out that - we would like and back. sarah was very clear in pointing out that we | very clear in pointing out that we shouldn't read too much into it in terms of the fact that the kremlin has had to cooperate with other nation states, that they would

perceive as being their enemies, but nonetheless it is an extraordinary that we are seeing some kind of collective alignment or working together to make this happen. she is riaht, of together to make this happen. she is right. of course. _ together to make this happen. she is right, of course, this _ together to make this happen. she is right, of course, this is _ together to make this happen. she is right, of course, this is not _ together to make this happen. she is right, of course, this is not a - together to make this happen. she is right, of course, this is not a sign - right, of course, this is not a sign of weakness or of russia giving an order of the west giving in. both sides won something. it is transactional. nobody is doing anyone any favours. this is a case, anyone any favours. this is a case, a rare case if it works, of the alignment of interests despite that. one of the things that surprised me was the chief of the cia william burns and the chief of britain's mi6 have intermittent but fairly frequent conversations with the opposite numbers in russia, despite the fact there is a full—scale war going on and that putin often says this is a word for russian survival and so on, certainly a work of the ukraine survival, and yet you have got william burns and richard moore

having conversations from time to time with the head of the svr, the russian overseas intelligence gathering arm of the kremlin. often there are common interests and there are things which can only be thrashed out in somewhere like ankara or istanbul. some kind of neutral territory where both sides feel comfortable. h0??? neutral territory where both sides feel comfortable.— neutral territory where both sides feel comfortable. how much do you know about — feel comfortable. how much do you know about how _ feel comfortable. how much do you know about how this _ feel comfortable. how much do you know about how this works? - feel comfortable. how much do you know about how this works? it - feel comfortable. how much do you know about how this works? it is i know about how this works? it is obviously incredibly complex and very sensitive and it involves lots of people. what we imagine the process is or how much do we know? i don't have to tell you that there is stuff i can't tell you but we don't yet know, i don't know the ins and outs and details. they haven't come outs and details. they haven't come out about this yet but it will certainly involve not only intelligence agencies, particularly the cia will be heavily involved in this but also there is a us hostage team, hostage released team that would be very much involved in this.

interestingly at the aspen security conference recently jake sullivan the us national security adviser did mention that efforts were under way and he said, i am certain we are going to get evan back forwards to that effect. clearly things were already under way there. usually they are brokered by an intermediary country. if you look at countries like qatar, saudi arabia, the uae, they have all managed to negotiate prisoner exchanges between ukraine and russia over similar countries, because i have got good relations with both the west and moscow. so when russia did its full—scale invasion of ukraine in february 2022, western countries i think were a bit presumptuous in saying of course the whole world condenses, it didn't. there is a large body of the world who said this is europe is my problem, we will keep good relations with russia because it is an important country and we wanted soil

and we want to keep aleutians open was it because of defence or oil and those countries include very important nations in the middle east like saudi arabia and the uae and qatar which it got excellent relations with moscow, which is why we have seen some prisoner releases organised by them. it may well be there is an element there but we don't know that yet. we don't know exactly who brokered this. there is a lot of moving parts in this and it involves, devolved the people who both sides want out of custody, if they all end up getting released, this will be the most extraordinary complex and successful prisoner release that i can think of in the last 14 years, since the end of the cold war. i last 14 years, since the end of the cold war. ., last 14 years, since the end of the cold war. . ., ., , last 14 years, since the end of the cold war. . . ., , ., cold war. i have already heard it said, the history _ cold war. i have already heard it said, the history of _ cold war. i have already heard it said, the history of modern - cold war. i have already heard it i said, the history of modern russia this is not happened before so let's bring on ourfashion editor this is not happened before so let's bring on our fashion editor steve rosenberg who is following this for us from moscow. frank gardner

expressing how unique this is in terms of geographical scope in terms of the prisoners being exchanged but have we heard anything from the calm and to confirm this happening? irate and to confirm this happening? we have. and to confirm this happening? - have. no comment i think was the phrase used by dmitry peskov when asked about if he could comment on reports of this large—scale prisoner exchange. i expect once it has actually happened and it hasn't happened yet as far as we know, there will be some comment from the russian authorities. just picking up on something frank said, it is really interesting that at a time of huge tension between russia and the west over the war in ukraine, this shows there are still channels of communication open between moscow and anti—united states and moscow and anti—united states and moscow and europe. but is not too much of a surprise. we know discussions do go on between russia and the west over

prisoner exchanges. back in december 2022 there was a prisoner exchange, after russia's full—scale invasion of ukraine, an american basketball star who was injailfor of ukraine, an american basketball star who was in jail for drugs offences in russia was swapped for a convicted russian arms dealer in december 2022. we know discussions have been going on between moscow and washington over evan gershkovich, paulwhelan, and washington over evan gershkovich, paul whelan, two american citizens who us has officially designated as wrongfully detained, paulwhelan officially designated as wrongfully detained, paul whelan had been in a russianjailfor more detained, paul whelan had been in a russian jail for more than five years, which shows the prisoner exchanges are easy, though easier to bring people home. we know discussions have been going on. we know vladimir putin, other senior russian officials had been dropping

very public hints that they are open for a deal and very public hints that they are open fora dealand vladimir very public hints that they are open for a deal and vladimir putin made it pretty clear without naming names russia wants to get back, the russian agent who is serving a life sentence in germany for murder. if he is returned to russia i think the kremlin will consider that to be job done and mission accomplished. the russians will consider that to be a victory. of course friends and family of evan gershkovich and paul whelan and other russian dissidents who may be freed as part of this exchange will be celebrating today. but i think the takeaway for russia, what moscow will take this, is that hostage diplomacy works. that is why i think we can expect to see more of

this kind of thing. we can expect to see more prisoners in russia, be it foreigners for russian citizens being used as bargaining chips. of course a day celebrating the release of western citizens and russian dissidents, but looking ahead, i think this will possibly embolden russia to do more of the same. itruth? russia to do more of the same. why is it happening _ russia to do more of the same. why is it happening now? probably - is it happening now? probably because the — is it happening now? probably because the kremlin - is it happening now? probably because the kremlin has - is it happening now? probably i because the kremlin has decided is it happening now? probably - because the kremlin has decided it got the deal it wanted. discussions have been going on behind closed doors, the kremlin has refused to comment in recent months about what has been going on. the praise you often hearfrom russian officials when you ask them about progress in negotiations is these matters require silence. so you don't hear

very much from russian officials and the kremlin hasn't said much today at all about what is happening. but these discussions are ongoing stop i imagine the deal put on the table, presented to moscow is when president putin feels he can accept. and that is in moscow's interest. we are not quite sure who rush it will be getting back. we are not quite sure who is on the list but things will become clear through the afternoon. will become clear through the afternoon-— will become clear through the afternoon. ., ., , , , afternoon. could it also be present putin thought _ afternoon. could it also be present putin thought he _ afternoon. could it also be present putin thought he would _ afternoon. could it also be present putin thought he would get - afternoon. could it also be present putin thought he would get a - afternoon. could it also be present| putin thought he would get a better deal from the putin thought he would get a better dealfrom the biden putin thought he would get a better deal from the biden administration than he would potentially from a trumpet? i than he would potentially from a trum et? ., than he would potentially from a trumet? . ., , ,,, ., ,, than he would potentially from a trumet? . ., , ,,, . ~' ., trumpet? i am not sure. speaking to russian officials _ trumpet? i am not sure. speaking to russian officials they _ trumpet? i am not sure. speaking to russian officials they are _ trumpet? i am not sure. speaking to russian officials they are not - trumpet? i am not sure. speaking to russian officials they are not sure i russian officials they are not sure who will come to power at the us election, so these discussions have been going on a long time step we

don't know the details of those discussions. we don't know the arguments that are going on behind closed doors. but obviously the fact that a deal was agreed i think suggests russia believes it is in its interests. it became clear a few weeks ago that a deal was close, because evan gershkovich went on trial for espionage because evan gershkovich went on trialfor espionage at because evan gershkovich went on trial for espionage at the end of june. then his trial was adjourned until mid august. then suddenly the second hearing was brought forward. we seem to have lost the connection to steve rosenberg. frank gardner is still with me. we arejust to steve rosenberg. frank gardner is still with me. we are just starting to get more details about what has happened in the deal that has been struck. ., ., ,., , happened in the deal that has been struck. ., ., , struck. there are no reports could be as many _ struck. there are no reports could be as many 24 _ struck. there are no reports could be as many 24 people _ struck. there are no reports could be as many 24 people who - struck. there are no reports could be as many 24 people who are - be as many 24 people who are involved in this exchange involving six countries. russia, the us, uk,

germany, belarus and slovenia. extraordinary if this happens. it would make it even bigger than the exchange of 14 people in 2010. this would be the biggest change of prisoners since the end of the cold war by far. it hasn't happened yet but everyone at least on the western side is talking about it happening, because there is clearly an alignment of interests here. the signs were already there and steve alluded to it a little bit. when you see people starting to be given these very heavy sentences and then being moved from theirjails, to other places, that is usually assigned something is moving and clearly people have been working away behind—the—scenes very hard on this. through diplomatic and intelligence contacts. one of the things that must be i think quite

working for western governments is that as far as they are concerned the people who are being released from the russian side are innocent civilians who haven't committed what would be considered a crime in any other country or any western country whereas the people who russia wants back, in the case of vadim critic of, he is a convicted murderer who murdered a chechen dissident in a berlin park in 2019. you have other people convicted in the us cybercrimes, hacking, running various hacking groups. in western eyes i am sure muscovy is use it differently but in westernise these are a matter of expediency because it is unacceptable for them to have these people rotting away in russian jails with the risk of something like navalny happening to them. i was in munich at the security

conference at the time the news broke that alexei navalny had died in an arctic penal colony. under pretty suspicious circumstances. we still don't know exactly what happened to him and how it was that he died but he was allowed to perish, let's put it that way. so life in a russian penal colony is pretty grim and pretty dangerous. you have a lot of hardened people there. the west wanted them out and if this all goes ahead it they are prepared to release on both sides 24 people. irate prepared to release on both sides 24 --eole. ~ ., , prepared to release on both sides 24 neale, . ., , ., prepared to release on both sides 24 n-eole. . . , . ., people. we are still waiting for confirmation _ people. we are still waiting for confirmation of _ people. we are still waiting for confirmation of those - people. we are still waiting for confirmation of those names. i people. we are still waiting for - confirmation of those names. let's bring in sir raynsford again who joins us from berlin. secret prison transfers are quite common in russia but is one of the signs this was happening the fact there are multiple disappearances of quite high—profile prisoners over the last few days and that has what has been

the speculation that people like vladimir might be among that release. ,., , ., vladimir might be among that release. , ., . release. prisoners in one comic miaht release. prisoners in one comic might suddenly _ release. prisoners in one comic might suddenly disappear - release. prisoners in one comic might suddenly disappear from | might suddenly disappear from contact and relatives might not fail to get out of them and their lawyer might be denied access and they might be denied access and they might appear there or have been transferred to another facility that does happen over time and it is a cause bravery when it does. in this case it is and was the coincidence of so many well—known names being out of contact simultaneously that got people concerned and thinking that something was afoot. the names involved, a prominent political opposition figure has been extremely prominent in russian politics going back many years, a prototype of boris nemtsov who was shot dead

metres from the kremlin some years ago he was a great friend of his and his young political protege. yashin was another young political activist who once was a youth activist set himself on fire in a fallible suit to protect what he called a dictator in the kremlin. a flamboyant character who has been extremely outspoken against the war in ukraine and russia invasion of ukraine, he had a youtube channel about what had happened in ukraine accusing russian soldiers of criminal acts, murdering civilians and after that he was prosecuted and found guilty of spreading. information about the russian military and sentenced to long time in prison. he is another of the people who has disappeared and he may be part of a prisoner exchange. he has continued to be

very outspoken against the war in ukraine and against vladimir putin even from behind bars. these are the kinds of names we are talking about that are being suggested may be part of some kind of deal but nothing has been confirmed. we don't know anything for sure just yet. there are others. sasso such a lingo is an artist, a young woman who had gone to a supermarket and change the labels on the supermarket shelves so that they instead of having the price of the goods, they contained condemnation of the war in ukraine. there is a common thread to this. people who have spoken out against the war in ukraine and people who have spoken out against vladimir putin, serving long prison sentences in russia, who have now begun to disappearfrom in russia, who have now begun to disappear from their presence, that the relatives can find them and this vacation has become full stop there other reasons suspicion and further rumours. we could get some confirmation of who exactly might be released in the hours to come pretty

soon now. in released in the hours to come pretty soon now. , ., , , , soon now. in terms of the steps leadin: soon now. in terms of the steps leading up _ soon now. in terms of the steps leading up to — soon now. in terms of the steps leading up to today, _ soon now. in terms of the steps leading up to today, but - soon now. in terms of the steps leading up to today, but about i soon now. in terms of the steps - leading up to today, but about what happened in belarus this week as well? we sort lukashenko also pardoning a german citizen, was a significant?— significant? definitely. we don't know for sure _ significant? definitely. we don't know for sure will _ significant? definitely. we don't know for sure will be _ significant? definitely. we don't know for sure will be german i significant? definitely. we don't i know for sure will be german citizen be part of this exchange certainly belarus has been mentioned. i don't think it was any coincidence that a man whose trial had taken place pretty much in secret, nobody had heard of it, suddenly it was all over the state propaganda channels in belarus that the german citizen was begging for his life, had been sentenced to death, accused of espionage and lukashenko then stepped in to commute his sentence to a life sentence and ultimately to pardon him. i think it was quite clear that it looked like a part of the choreography around all this. it is in belarus these kinds of things tend to happen quite dramatically and more in public than they do

perhaps in russia. in russia there has been quite a lot of radio silence about all of this. it has just been rumour and speculation state media has been very obviously very quiet stop i think that a significant but certainly the talk is now of multiple countries being involved in a potential swap, not just russia and the united states. belarus has been mentioned sansovini has been mentioned. generally where i am now is also supposed to be part of this arrangement because the big sticking point we understand it in negotiations to bring the american citizens from russia was always the fact that russia wanted back a convicted assassin who is being held here in germany and as we understand it germanyjust wasn't up for here in germany and as we understand it germany just wasn't up for that. why should they send back a man convicted of killing in broad daylight a man who the judge described as a state assassin? why should germany send him back? it appears the negotiations have been very complicated and perhaps that german citizen in belarus is part of the complex choreography as a site of arranging this very big deal. you

obviously lived and worked in russia for a long time and know closely what happens there. steve rosenberg often says, i am always being asked to put myself in the head of that repeat in and who can do that and i am about to perhaps do the same thing to you think it could potentially embolden president putin now in terms of this has worked taking hostages in this way and then extending them for valuable prisoners that he wants back, this is a process that works and he might come and build on him? it is a process that works and he might come and build on him?— is a process that works and he might come and build on him? it has worked before and it — come and build on him? it has worked before and it has _ come and build on him? it has worked before and it has worked _ come and build on him? it has worked before and it has worked this - come and build on him? it has worked before and it has worked this time. i before and it has worked this time. i think there is no guarantee he will do it again. it is quite clear vladimir putin has been prepared to arrest people and that his system will have them accused of all sorts of things which they deny and that can happen again. we know there have been prisoner swaps in the past much smaller than this but to get back some key figures that russia wanted back. they have worked in those

cases, paulwhelan back. they have worked in those cases, paul whelan who has been in prison for more than five years in russia, he was hoping to be exchanged for many years but that didn't happen and that deal couldn't be done. he is now finally part of this big deal that has been arranged now. these negotiations and trades have happened for sometime but they have happened for sometime but they have been much smaller. the fact we are talking about potentially russian political prisoners being involved in this deal being brought involved in this deal being brought in as part of a massive collective swap, that is really unprecedented and it is really important i think and it is really important i think and it is really important i think and it is really key to see who is on that list, which faces, which people climb off those times when we eventually see the pictures on the list because there are so many people in russian jails list because there are so many people in russianjails who have done nothing more than criticise vladimir putin and the full—scale invasion of ukraine, potentially could be all sorts of people who are now properly for them being freed but it is not clear, we have mentioned some names but now we're

hearing numbers that might be up to to 30 people so it is not entirely clear but the potential is huge and frankly we should also remember inside russia in a memorial of human rights group itself has been banned but it says there are 100s of political prisoners were knotted today so we are resolute in this round of prisoner exchange it will just be that of the iceberg. star; just be that of the iceberg. stay with us. thank _ just be that of the iceberg. stay with us. thank you _ just be that of the iceberg. stay with us. thank you for that. there will be a lot of people on tenterhooks right now as we wait for this exchange to take place and see those first pictures as sarah was mentioning and particularly the staff at the wall streetjournal and the family of evan gershkovich, who we understand from the biden administration is one of those that would be released today. speak to the chief executive of the committee to protectjournalists, an to protect journalists, an independent to protectjournalists, an independent nonprofit organisation that promotes freedom worldwide. very good to have you with us. we are still being cautious but what is

your initial reaction at disney's? one of absolute delight. we have been campaigning for evan's release and hopefully also the release of alsu kurmahseva, another us citizen, and usjournalist alsu kurmahseva, another us citizen, and us journalist who alsu kurmahseva, another us citizen, and usjournalist who is alsu kurmahseva, another us citizen, and us journalist who is currently detained in russia for more than a year. it will be amazing to see them hopefully both step off a plane, be in the arms of the families finally and be free. tell in the arms of the families finally and be free-— and be free. tell us a bit more about what — and be free. tell us a bit more about what you _ and be free. tell us a bit more about what you know - and be free. tell us a bit more about what you know about i and be free. tell us a bit more| about what you know about the campaign to free evan and just how closely the wall streetjournal have not only been in contact with his family but have worked tirelessly to see him freed? the family but have worked tirelessly to see him freed?— see him freed? the wall street journal, see him freed? the wall street journal. ever — see him freed? the wall street journal, ever since _ see him freed? the wall street journal, ever since evan i see him freed? the wall street journal, ever since evan was i journal, ever since evan was arrested, have been vocal about his detention, the fact that he is innocent, guilty of no crime other

than being a journalist. he is not a spy than being a journalist. he is not a spy as russia accused him and charged him of being. they have campaigned, we have all been wearing free evan and i stand with evan pins. the world straightjournal is made sure anything to do with evan is free for the people to read, i have written to evan personally and had a letter back. they have spent hours and hours doing nothing but lobbying the us government to ensure he was designated as wrongfully detained so that the us government could enter into some of these more high—level negotiations with the russians and have made sure in every high—level setting evan's name is mentioned. high-level setting evan's name is mentioned-— high-level setting evan's name is mentioned. . ., , mentioned. what are your concerns for otherjournalists _ mentioned. what are your concerns for otherjournalists who _ mentioned. what are your concerns for otherjournalists who work i mentioned. what are your concerns for otherjournalists who work in i for otherjournalists who work in russia at the moment? this for otherjournalists who work in russia at the moment?- russia at the moment? this is exactly the — russia at the moment? this is exactly the point. _ russia at the moment? this is exactly the point. russia i russia at the moment? this is exactly the point. russia last i russia at the moment? this is i exactly the point. russia last year was the world's fourth largest

jailer of journalists, was the world's fourth largest jailer ofjournalists, 22 journalists in jail jailer ofjournalists, 22 journalists injail in december of last year. it is an extraordinarily difficult place to operate particularly for local journalists and domesticjournalists, hundreds and domestic journalists, hundreds have and domesticjournalists, hundreds have fled into exile. russia has even punished them beyond the territories, going after them with arrest warrants, and punishing them in absentia. we have seen that increasingly in recent years. make no mistake, this doesn't mean russia is now in support of a pre—press and we must be aware that many journalists still remain in jail and it is extraordinarily difficult for journalists for operate freely and independently in russia, particularly local once. how difficult is _ particularly local once. how difficult is it _ particularly local once. how difficult is it for _ particularly local once. how difficult is it for russians i particularly local once. how difficult is it for russians to j difficult is it for russians to access independent and impartial journalism? it is access independent and impartial journalism?— journalism? it is challenging for them and it _ journalism? it is challenging for them and it is _ journalism? it is challenging for them and it is possible - journalism? it is challenging for them and it is possible but i them and it is possible but challenging for russians to access independentjournalism. we see vpns being blocked and websites being

blocked. we have also seen a number of websites and news outlets being designated as terrorist groups or as foreign agents, which means if you access content you yourself can be committing a crime. this doesn't mean the release, though extremely welcome, it doesn't mean the situation and the environment for press freedom will change in any way forjournalism and press freedom will change in any way for journalism and journalists press freedom will change in any way forjournalism and journalists in for journalism and journalists in russia. forjournalism and journalists in russia. i forjournalism and “ournalists in russia. ., forjournalism and “ournalists in russia. . ., , ., , ., russia. i have more questions for ou but i russia. i have more questions for you but i want— russia. i have more questions for you but i want to _ russia. i have more questions for you but i want to show _ russia. i have more questions for you but i want to show viewers i you but i want to show viewers pictures we are getting from ankara, the turkish capital. we have had this confirmation through that the russian government plane has landed in ankara and we believe this is the plane we are looking at now. frank carter is looking into the turks' involvement and i will let him do that while i continue to talk to you

about urban particularly. you mentioned he had exchanged letters with him. tell us a bit more about what you know about how he is and how he has survived this time. from what i how he has survived this time. from what i now — how he has survived this time. from what i now and _ how he has survived this time. from what i now and i _ how he has survived this time. from what i now and i have _ how he has survived this time. h...” what i now and i have spoken to many of his friends and colleagues and his family has been an amazingly strong support for evan and his sister, i... he has an amazing sense of humour and that is what is striking, you may remember very early on he made a joke about how the prison food might be better than his mum's. he seems to have been kept going and kept mentally healthy by receiving letters from his colleagues and friends and from others, responding. he wrote books and kept himself physically healthy in jail. he was in a prison that is well known to have some of the most challenging conditions in russia. he

was then obviously sentenced to time