was going to get arrested knew he was going to get arrested because he would speak out against the war in ukraine and at the dentist in prison were rubbish. he had got that sorted and he was then arrested. he was charged with spreading bulls information about the war in ukraine. what he actually did was a youtube stream in which he discussed very openly the killing of civilians by the russian military outside kyiv. he showed video including from the bbc about what had happened on the ground. the russian authorities have always denied there was any russian war crimes or suggestion of war crimes in future. ilia yashin made clear the evidence and that was the evidence against him that was produced in court. i remember reading the transcript of his last speech he made in court and he said then that despite his sentence and i think it was around seven years that

he got for denouncing the invasion of ukraine, he said he had no regrets and the quote i dug out was him saying it is better to spend ten years in prison than to die of shame and silence the blood your government spelling. so he is a fearless man, i would say, deeply committed politician who has been involved in russian politics for many years, a protege of murdered opposition politician boris nemtsov and it has been now confirmed ilya yashin has now been released, although he had said he didn't want to be part of a prisoner exchange and would prefer to stay in russia. we don't know the terms of this or exactly what has been agreed, but it looks like he's been forced into exile. ., ., �* ~ ., exile. there are, i don't know if ou exile. there are, i don't know if you have _ exile. there are, i don't know if you have any — exile. there are, i don't know if you have any more _ exile. there are, i don't know if you have any more detail- exile. there are, i don't know if you have any more detail on - exile. there are, i don't know if. you have any more detail on this, but we mentioned earlier there were reports that two miners were involved in the swap and we are just seeing former bbc colleague that the

two miners reportedly returned to russia most likely the children of a russian couple convicted of spying in slovenia?— in slovenia? yes, that was my assumption- _ in slovenia? yes, that was my assumption. i— in slovenia? yes, that was my assumption. i don't _ in slovenia? yes, that was my assumption. i don't have - in slovenia? yes, that was my assumption. i don't have the l in slovenia? yes, that was my - assumption. i don't have the facts, but certainly we do know that slovenia is part of this exchange and there have been discussions about two illegals, undercover russian agents who are convicted in a slovenian court very recently. we believed they would be part of this broad exchange and if they are the ones who have children, then i think those would be the miners that are being referred to. we do know there are some teenagers who are believed to be thought of part of those exchanges coming out of russia to the west, but we haven't had confirmation of those individuals just yet, still waiting, like everybody, for the full list of names. they were not mentioned from turkish intelligence, turkish intelligence just confirming evan gershkovich, the usjournalist, paul whelan, the us marine, and ilya yashin and a couple of other names. still waiting to hear whether

vladimir kara—murza might be on the list, whether he is one of those opposition politicians who may be stepping out of that plane in ankara is on of the released detainees. thank you, sarah rainsford, in berlin for that update. just a reminder that we have confirmation that 26 people from prisons in seven different countries are involved in this prisoner swap. so we are still some way to go to understanding that full list of names, the full 26. although we now have some of the names of those involved in the exchange. let's let's speak to clayton weimers, who is us director for the non—profit organisation — reporters without borders. thank you forjoining us, your reaction to this news, including about evan gershkovich? we are really relieved _ about evan gershkovich? we are really relieved to _ about evan gershkovich? we are really relieved to hear— about evan gershkovich? we are really relieved to hear this - about evan gershkovich? we are really relieved to hear this news| really relieved to hear this news and looking forward to welcoming evan back to american soil after the

16 long months that he spent in a russian prison accused of spying, when in fact he was arrested for doing hisjob as when in fact he was arrested for doing his job as a journalist. and i doing his 'ob as a “ournalist. and i wonder, doing his job as a “ournalist. and i wonder, before _ doing his job as a journalist. and i wonder, before we _ doing his job as a journalist. and i wonder, before we talk _ doing his job as a journalist. and i wonder, before we talk a - doing his job as a journalist. and i wonder, before we talk a bit - doing hisjob as a journalist. and i wonder, before we talk a bit more about evan and the other people you are looking to hear news about, i wonder what your thoughts are on this huge exchange. does that ultimately make it more difficult for people who want to do the job of journalism in russia to carry out that work?— journalism in russia to carry out that work? ~ . , ., ~ ., , that work? what is making the 'ob more difficult fl that work? what is making the 'ob more difficult for d that work? what is making the 'ob more difficult forjournalists i more difficult forjournalists working in russia is the kremlin has cracked down on the free press. it has been some years since vladimir putin has completely chased out the russian free press and forced them into exile, self—censorship or into jail and worse. the arrest of evan about 16 months ago saving will be escalation in that war on the press, where the kremlin showed it was very comfortable going after

international journalists, comfortable going after internationaljournalists, who previously thought they had a bit of an extra layer of protection. that is clearly not the case. nonetheless, the world needs reliable information out of russia, especially, it is especially necessary for the vast russian diets for a living and the world that needs information about their home country, many of whom have been forced into exile by this very dictatorial regime that has cracked down on the human rights. i dictatorial regime that has cracked down on the human rights.- down on the human rights. i have soken down on the human rights. i have spoken to — down on the human rights. i have spoken to your— down on the human rights. i have spoken to your organisation - down on the human rights. i have i spoken to your organisation before, i have spoken to the husband of... and we are waiting to get absolute confirmation that she is one of the 26 involved in the exchange. give us a sense of what your organisation, friends and family in the us have been doing to try to keep his spirits up of people like alsu kurmasheva and evan, during their period in prison?— period in prison? yes, we are eaaerl period in prison? yes, we are eagerly awaiting _ period in prison? yes, we are eagerly awaiting that - period in prison? yes, we are eagerly awaiting that news i period in prison? yes, we are i eagerly awaiting that news that period in prison? yes, we are - eagerly awaiting that news that alsu kurmasheva is included in this deal. her case hasn't quite got as much

attention as evan's, which we think is a shame, but we will be just as relieved to see her released as well. it has been especially difficult in alsu kurmasheva's case because she has been cut off from communication with her family, because she has been cut off from communication with herfamily, they haven't been able to see her, they haven't been able to see her, they have sent a postcard, but they don't get to interact with her. she is also in the eye of the congress, which means the us ambassador has never been able to visit her whilst she has been in a russian prison, which is outrageous. she is a us citizen and should be afforded all of the rights of the us citizen and it is clear that she is the case of a state—sponsored hostage the russians took in order to secure future h for a us prisoner exchange that we seem to be seeing now. is there anything more that can be done politically to try to prevent this happening again? obviously the biden administration has been working behind the scenes for a long time to try to secure these releases, to try to come to this deal with russia.

that is the $1 million question, how do we increase the cost on the russian regime and other regimes from taking hostages? in order to exchange them for legitimate prisoners and spies and arms traffickers. there is a real discrepancy there. you know, no one seems to have all the answers yet. there are a lot of people who are discussing this question in civil society, in government, how do we make it more costly for the kremlin to do this again. in the meantime, though, wejust have to do this again. in the meantime, though, we just have to celebrate that we are able to see journalists who have been wrongly detained go three. ., ., who have been wrongly detained go three. ._ ., ~ , who have been wrongly detained go three. ., ~ , ., ~ three. 0k, clayton weimers, thank ou ve three. 0k, clayton weimers, thank you very much _ three. 0k, clayton weimers, thank you very much for _ three. ok, clayton weimers, thank you very much for your— three. 0k, clayton weimers, thank you very much for your time - three. 0k, clayton weimers, thank you very much for your time today, clayton weimers, us director of the nonprofit organisation, reporters without borders. with me is my washington colleague helena humphrey.

obviously big news coming out from the biden administration today. that question that clayton weimers was just posing, how does the us and other countries make it more costly for russia to take steps like this, to imprison journalists and for russia to take steps like this, to imprisonjournalists and other citizens with dual nationality, potentially, in order to try to extract exchanges from those other countries? ~ , ,., , ., ~ countries? absolutely and i think that is something _ countries? absolutely and i think that is something washington . countries? absolutely and i think| that is something washington will countries? absolutely and i think - that is something washington will be painfully aware of, but obviously it has entered into this negotiation, something that will be seen in a contractual way, knowing vladimir putin, of course, as they do, but these conversations clearly have continued behind the scenes between the biden administration and the white house, the cia and the state department. of course, we have now got to the stage where the biden administration today is hoping this exchange unfolds in the way it wants to see this unfold, but of course, when you think back for example to brittney griner and that exchange of

the us basketball star for a brittney griner and that exchange of the us basketball starfor a russian arms dealer, victor bout, at the time, there was, according to some people, including former president donald trump, criticised that, saying it was too heavy a price to pay and he also said on truth social in 2022, he said they had the opportunity for an exchange of paul whelan, the us former marine, with that arms dealer, who he called the merchant of deaf. a one—on—one exchange and he had decided to rule it out because it would be seen as too costly, but presumably of course washington had continued with these negotiations and to considered that, due to the nature of who they would hopefully be getting out today, including evan gershkovich, of course, the most high profile right now, but also paul whelan, who has beenin now, but also paul whelan, who has been in prison for such a long time, since 2018. been in prison for such a long time, since 20113-— since 2018. politically, is the biden administration - since 2018. politically, is the biden administration going l since 2018. politically, is the | biden administration going to since 2018. politically, is the - biden administration going to get a lot of credit for this with the us public? i lot of credit for this with the us ublic? ~ , public? i think it will be particularly _ public? i think it will be

particularly important l public? i think it will be l particularly important for public? i think it will be _ particularly important for president biden now, now that we know that he is not running as a candidate, people will be watching to see, what has he been able to achieve with those final months in office? i'm sure that when historians come to write history books and you look at his legacy, this is also going to be something that will be pointed to as well. and of course harris as well, she is now in her campaigning season heading up to november as well, that likely will be something that will be pointed to, but of course not a question for today, but one you alluded to there, the price that is paid and who will be exchanged as well. i think that is something that will be discussed in the coming weeks and months.— will be discussed in the coming weeks and months. ~ ., ., , weeks and months. what more insight can ou weeks and months. what more insight can you give — weeks and months. what more insight can you give us _ weeks and months. what more insight can you give us into _ weeks and months. what more insight can you give us into what _ weeks and months. what more insight can you give us into what has - weeks and months. what more insight can you give us into what has been - can you give us into what has been going on behind the scenes in washington to try to make this happen in the state department and in other departments? {lit happen in the state department and in other departments?— in other departments? of course, a flur of in other departments? of course, a flurry of continued _ in other departments? of course, a flurry of continued meetings - in other departments? of course, a flurry of continued meetings and i flurry of continued meetings and discussions, visibly, of course, when you think about someone like evan gershkovich, for example, his family have been campaigning very visibly. i was covering the state of

the union address in washington earlier this year. his family were there, they were guests and i think is journalists you try to be respectful of the fact their son is in prison and careful of how you approach them, but they were very amenable to speaking to journalists, essentially whoever they could speak to to drum up attention to keep evan gershkovich in the news and similarly with the wall street journal as well, their editor in chief frequently making appearances joining us in the studio thereat washington as well, but when you look for example at paul whelan, who has been in prison since 2018, i think the sense there and paul whelan said it himself on phone calls from prison, he was concerned that his was being forgotten, that there had been prisoner exchanges that had taken place and not included in at the time, including brittney griner. and then of course, thinking about the time that they will be coming out, paul whelan, for example, has said, my parents are elderly. if vladimir kara—murza

comes out as well, it will remain to be seen what kind of health state he is in as well, somebody we know suffers from a neurological condition as a result of being poisoned twice.— condition as a result of being poisoned twice. condition as a result of being oisoned twice. ., ~ , ., , . poisoned twice. thank you very much for that, poisoned twice. thank you very much forthat. helen _ poisoned twice. thank you very much for that, helen humphrey. _ poisoned twice. thank you very much for that, helen humphrey. let's - forthat, helen humphrey. let's bring you right up to date with the latest lines we are getting about this prisoner exchange. remember, we have heard that 26 prisoners are involved from a total of seven countries, including the usa and russia. now, we are seeing from ankara, where the prisoners are being swapped. if you like, it is the hub for this prisoner exchange. a russianjail in germany for killing a church union is among the prisoners released, says ankara. we have been hearing from the turkish presidency and they have been talking thereabout vadim krasikov, a former fsb intelligence officer, who was jailed in 2019 for the murder of a kremlin critic. he was serving a life sentence in berlin. and also,

let mejust to life sentence in berlin. and also, let me just to check if we have any more information about who else is on this list of 26. we are seeing from our colleagues on bbc news that a friend of the british russian national, vladimir kara—murza, has told the bbc has released is, to quote his friend, practically imminent, that he is on the way already in germany and that it is absolutely great news. let's see if we can get any more confirmation of that with sarah rainsford, who is our eastern europe correspondent in berlin. sarah, do you have any updates for us?— berlin. sarah, do you have any updates for us? no, it is also fast movin: updates for us? no, it is also fast moving and _ updates for us? no, it is also fast moving and yet — updates for us? no, it is also fast moving and yet so _ updates for us? no, it is also fast moving and yet so mysterious - updates for us? no, it is also fast moving and yet so mysterious at l updates for us? no, it is also fast i moving and yet so mysterious at the same time. turkish intelligence certainly getting a bit more information about their part how this exchange has taken place or is taking place. some of the names involved, ilya yashin, i wasjust talking to you earlier about him being mentioned publicly for the first time and of course confirming

evan gershkovich and paul whelan. we don't know officially get any of the other names. we do understand that a number of the russian political prisoners who have been released, if not all of them, should be heading to here in germany. there are reports that there will be statements and ceremonies, even, some kind of welcome for them here in germany later today. all that as yet not quite confirmed, but it is certainly the word on the street at the moment, if you like. so we are looking into that. also the reports about vadim krasikov, who is the man who was of course convicted here in germany by a german court of murder of an nation in the park here in berlin in the centre of the city, in broad daylight, a man who rode up to his victim on a bike and shot him in the head and then tried to disguise itself and get away, but who was captured and imprisoned. madame krasikov is one of those men that

vladimir putin is getting back as a result of this exchange. he is a man that mr putin himself has referred to as a patriot in the past, so that is who he is getting back as part of this deal. just one detail to add to that. a while back i was here in germany and i met the brother of the victim of that in krasikov and i was talking to him about how he might feel, if mr krasikov was released as part of a prisoner exchange. he said, nothing will bring my brother back. his brother was a chechen field commander, so he had fought against russia in the chechnya war, he was a chukchi and georgian ethnic national, and he was killed in that park in berlin. his brother told me, if my brother's definite leads to at least some good in terms of at least some humanitarian outcome, then he said he wouldn't oppose that, although he said nobody was about to ask him about that, in any case.

just interesting that the brother of the victim of that man, who has been described as an fsb hit man, a state assassin, the brother of the victim said that he doesn't oppose him being returned to russia, if it is to help at least some people be released from russia, from where he said there was, as he described it, a dictatorial regime. {lila said there was, as he described it, a dictatorial regime.— a dictatorial regime. 0k, sarah, thank you- _ a dictatorial regime. 0k, sarah, thank you. sarah _ a dictatorial regime. 0k, sarah, thank you. sarah rainsford i a dictatorial regime. 0k, sarah, thank you. sarah rainsford in i a dictatorial regime. 0k, sarah, i thank you. sarah rainsford in berlin for the moment. i am sure we'll be back with you very soon, but now joining me is... joining me now is olga ivshina from bbc�*s russian service and our correspondent will grant. will grant is willgrant is in will grant is in washington, to get the view from usa and russia. olga, to you first, what is the latest your hearing from russia about who might be on the list about the people whom they might want to get back who are on this list? it people whom they might want to get back who are on this list?— back who are on this list? it seems both sides are _ back who are on this list? it seems both sides are very _ back who are on this list? it seems both sides are very cautious - back who are on this list? it seems both sides are very cautious and i both sides are very cautious and have not officially released the names of those who participated in

the exchange. programme then supporters and pro—kremlin states porters are already mentioning the names of vadim krasikov, which my colleague sarah rainsford just spoke about, two people convicted of spying in slovenia, also of russian citizenship, who was arrested in poland. also talking about the other side we have just got a statement from the radio three europe confirming that alsu kurmasheva, a journalist who has both russian and us citizenship, she is a part of this swap. so she was released, they say she was released from the russian prison, so possibly she will be three later today. but yes, mr putin of course this is another chance to portray himself within russia as a man who can solve troubles, who can achieve his goals

and it was definitely lacking this good news in the past two and a half years since he started the russia's large scale invasion of ukraine. the situation on the front line wasn't as colourful and as victorious as he would like, so he definitely needs those good news items and of course we will try to use that exchange in his favour. �* we will try to use that exchange in his favour-— his favour. and olga, is there a feelin: his favour. and olga, is there a feeling that _ his favour. and olga, is there a feeling that given _ his favour. and olga, is there a feeling that given that - his favour. and olga, is there a feeling that given that vladimir| feeling that given that vladimir putin has been able to secure the release of some people that he wanted returned to russia, that this so—called hostage diplomacy may continue? it so-called hostage diplomacy may continue? ~ , continue? it well. i think it is way more important _ continue? it well. i think it is way more important for _ continue? it well. i think it is way more important for mr _ continue? it well. i think it is way more important for mr putin, i continue? it well. i think it is way| more important for mr putin, was continue? it well. i think it is way i more important for mr putin, was to send a message to everyone who works for him, both officially and unofficially, within russia and abroad, showing that he is ready to go at huge costs in order to get his quys go at huge costs in order to get his guys back. in a way, this makes it easierfor people to guys back. in a way, this makes it easier for people to agree for the

new tasks of the kremlin and we have seen that with russian officials struggling to get new recruits in russia to participate in russia's invasion into ukraine and definitely lots of russian assets had stopped operations after the russian invasion. some members of the russian diplomatic relations were sent back home, so definitely he needs more people and this is a message that can inspire certain members of the public to sign up for his call for action. so in no way, this is a warning sign.— this is a warning sign. olga, for the moment. — this is a warning sign. olga, for the moment, thank— this is a warning sign. olga, for the moment, thank you - this is a warning sign. olga, for the moment, thank you very i this is a warning sign. olga, for- the moment, thank you very much. let's cross to washington and our correspondent will grant is there. will, just hearing from olga, that we seem now to have confirmation from at least one source that alsu kurmasheva, thejoint from at least one source that alsu kurmasheva, the joint russian— from at least one source that alsu kurmasheva, thejoint russian— us national, is among those being released or about to be released, what else are you hearing there about the people on this list? iquite about the people on this list? quite honestl , about the people on this list? quite honestly. for _ about the people on this list? quite honestly, for the _ about the people on this list? quite honestly, for the time _

about the people on this list? quite honestly, for the time being, not a great _ honestly, for the time being, not a great deal. — honestly, for the time being, not a great deal, but the drama of the moment— great deal, but the drama of the moment is— great deal, but the drama of the moment is extraordinary. just think in the _ moment is extraordinary. just think in the past — moment is extraordinary. just think in the past 24 hours, the emotion that all— in the past 24 hours, the emotion that all of— in the past 24 hours, the emotion that all of the prisoners involved will have — that all of the prisoners involved will have been through, the movements, they have been taken from cells, _ movements, they have been taken from cells, the _ movements, they have been taken from cells, the rumour is turning into confirmations, the stuff that is dripping — confirmations, the stuff that is dripping out from their families and so 0“, _ dripping out from their families and so on. we _ dripping out from their families and so on, we still don't have that full confirmation from the state department or the white house of the names— department or the white house of the names yet. _ department or the white house of the names yet, but i think we can safely say it— names yet, but i think we can safely say if they— names yet, but i think we can safely say if they end up being the ones that people expect, particularly paul whelan and alan li evan gershkovich, we will be able to see a moment— gershkovich, we will be able to see a moment where obviously present biden_ a moment where obviously present biden meets them very soon after they make — biden meets them very soon after they make it back onto us soil. this will he _ they make it back onto us soil. this will he a _ they make it back onto us soil. this will be a huge political win for him personally — will be a huge political win for him personally. by extension, for vice president — personally. by extension, for vice president harris in her bid to become _ president harris in her bid to become president in november, and when _ become president in november, and when november's presidential election... so drama, politics, spying, — election... so drama, politics, spying, its— election... so drama, politics, spying, its got it all, in a sense, it but— spying, its got it all, in a sense, it but it — spying, its got it all, in a sense, it but it is — spying, its got it all, in a sense,

it but it is a _ spying, its got it all, in a sense, it but it is a very, very important moment— it but it is a very, very important moment in— it but it is a very, very important moment in history, the likes of which _ moment in history, the likes of which hasn't been seen between the west and _ which hasn't been seen between the west and moscow since the cold war. and i_ west and moscow since the cold war. and i wonder... inaudible hello, i am inaudible hello, iam kylie. you are inaudible hello, i am kylie. you are with bbc news. the prime minister, sir keir starmer, has been meeting police leaders this afternoon after protests across london led to more than 100 arrests last night. to recap, the arrests happened after the stabbing of three young girls during a dance class in southport. we can now bring you a report on this.

a 17—year—old boy has appeared in court in liverpool charged with the murder of three girls and the attempted murder of ten other people. axel rudakubana is accused of carrying out the attack at a taylor swift—themed dance and yoga event in southport, in north—west england on monday. last night people gathered to protest following disinformation about the rest. this is following the arrest and —— the incident in southport, during which 39 officers were injured. let's speak to nick eardley, who is in downing street for us. so far, what is the prime minister said about this unrest?— what is the prime minister said about this unrest? yes, as you say, he has been — about this unrest? yes, as you say, he has been in _ about this unrest? yes, as you say, he has been in that _ about this unrest? yes, as you say, he has been in that meeting - about this unrest? yes, as you say, he has been in that meeting with i he has been in that meeting with several high—ranking police officers over the past hour and a half or so. the message we heard from the prime minister at the start of that meeting was about offering them support to take action and to clamp down on some of these protests. these protests we have seen over the last few days. with that, protest is perhaps the wrong word because the

prime minister was calling this marauding mobs, saying they were not protests, that he considered them violent and disordered and that the police needed the powers they required to clamp down on them. i think there is clearly some concern in number ten about what we have seen over the past 48 hours, those protest starting in southport and then spreading, it seems, to places like manchester, hartlepool and central london last night, just down the road from where i am in number ten, on whitehall, there was a massive protest last night that saw dozens of arrests from the metropolitan police for a number of different crimes or alleged crimes, i should say. but i think what we're going to hearfrom i should say. but i think what we're going to hear from the i should say. but i think what we're going to hearfrom the prime minister at the press conference he is due to give in the next few minutes is one, a message of reassurance, saying the police have the powers to deal with this and we fully support them in clamping down on some of these activities, but also perhaps talking about the need for community cohesion after some of the division over the past 48 hours.

we have just heard from cleveland police chief constable mark webster, who said that there are about 150 people in hartlepool on wednesday evening committing violent disorder, he said, speaking outside hartlepool police station, he said four police officers were injured and two required hospital treatment and the number of arrests currently stood at 11. he said, more it were expected over the next 48 hours. i was looking at the list of people in that meeting and quite wide—ranging. can you just give us a recap of who was attending that meeting that has been happening this afternoon? yes. been happening this afternoon? yes, look, it been happening this afternoon? yes, look. it was — been happening this afternoon? yes, look, it was primarily _ been happening this afternoon? ye: look, it was primarily aimed at high—ranking police officers, the home secretary is in there as well, the justice secretary, home secretary is in there as well, thejustice secretary, key cabinet ministers will be involved in discussions about what to do over the next few days. because, as i

say, when the things i think it's worth bearing in mind here is the government will have an ion what is happening next. we have looked at what happened on tuesday night and last night as well and they will perhaps be concerned about some of the reports of other protests being organised as well by groups associated with the far right in british politics and saying, look, we don't want this to spread, so we are going to try to get on top of it. now, isuspect are going to try to get on top of it. now, i suspect that will be one of the key question is the prime minister is asked, what is being put in place to try and calm some of these tensions, what is being done to make sure that this doesn't spread over the next few days? it is a pretty tricky question for the government. i think there will be a mixture of balancing, not trying to over how significant this all is. remember, it is pockets of violence in different parts of the country, london, manchester, hartlepooland london, manchester, hartlepool and southport london, manchester, hartlepooland southport on tuesday night as well,

but significant never the less that this started with a protest around the area where that tragedy took place on tuesday. it started with what seemed like quite a small protest, but a very, very violent one and has just ballooned over the past 24 hours into different parts of england as well. that is the thing that will really be concerning government ministers. and thing that will really be concerning government ministers.— government ministers. and as you said, government ministers. and as you said. trying _ government ministers. and as you said. trying to _ government ministers. and as you said, trying to stop _ government ministers. and as you said, trying to stop that _ government ministers. and as you said, trying to stop that violence l said, trying to stop that violence spreading any further. is there anything in this situation, nick, the prime minister can actually do? apart from kind of guiding those chief of police? it is apart from kind of guiding those chief of police?— apart from kind of guiding those chief of police? it is a really good ruestion chief of police? it is a really good question and _ chief of police? it is a really good question and the _ chief of police? it is a really good question and the answer- chief of police? it is a really good question and the answer to i chief of police? it is a really good question and the answer to it, i l question and the answer to it, i think, is actually quite a complicated one. yes, that sort of broader messaging that you would expect from the government in a time like this, where i suspect we will hear from the prime like this, where i suspect we will hearfrom the prime minister some reassurance, some pleas for calm, talking about community cohesion and not letting division get in the way.

in terms of practically what the government can do, i think two messages, to ensure that the police have the powers they need to tackle disorder, although remember, parliament is not sitting at the moment, so in practical terms, how you would actually give them extra powers is a bit more complicated, but there will also be that message of reassurance and i think bringing police together in downing street is probably quite a significant thing in and of itself because in these situations you can't have police forces offering each other aid —— you can have police forces dotting each other aid to say, look, if you haven't got enough police forces in your area, we can give you some of our officers over the next few days, they lend resources to some other forces to make sure they have the reinforcements they need. so suspect the three things i have just mentioned will be the most important to come out of that meeting. but look, it will be a really interesting to see the tone the

prime minister takes, how he describes these protests we have seen over the past 48 hours, as i say, at the start of that meeting he had with police he was talking about marauding mobs, saying he considers this violent disorder, rather than legitimate protest. will he repeat that message and also will he face more questions about what the police are going to do to tackle any further disorder and how worried the government is about what is going to happen over the next few days? yes. happen over the next few days? yes, i mean, happen over the next few days? yes, i mean. he — happen over the next few days? yes, i mean, he hasn't _ happen over the next few days? yes, i mean, he hasn't been _ happen over the next few days? yes, i mean, he hasn't been long in downing street, has he? i guess he wasn't expecting that this would be at the top of his agenda, this early on in his post. at the top of his agenda, this early on in his post-— on in his post. yes, that's a really aood on in his post. yes, that's a really good point- _ on in his post. yes, that's a really good point- a _ on in his post. yes, that's a really good point. a really _ on in his post. yes, that's a really good point. a really test - on in his post. yes, that's a really good point. a really test for i on in his post. yes, that's a really good point. a really test for the i good point. a really test for the prime minister, something that could become an early crisis for the prime minister to deal with. i think that is actually part of the reason we are here today on thursday afternoon, after pockets of unrest, significant unrest, certainly, the people and communities in places

like hartlepool and is in southport. but we have not seen, perhaps, the scale of unrest that we saw in the tottenham riots over a decade ago. but i think the government wants to get out quickly with this, be seen to be on top of the issue, be seen to be on top of the issue, be seen to be on top of the issue, be seen to be bringing the different law enforcement bodies together, to cabinet ministers, who will have will have to have oversight of all of this, together as well. and you know, really be seen to be on the front foot when it comes to tackling this issue. as we were just discussing, the actual practicalities of what number ten does are perhaps not as significant at the moment about the role it plays in messaging, in trying to calm any of the tensions we have seen over the past couple of days, to offer reassurance to communities, but also to bring together police forces to say to them, look, operationally, what do you need? do you have all the powers you need? and what efforts can you take to

help each other over the next few days, where there are particular pinch points? i mean, it is no insignificant things for the prime minister to call a last—minute press conference. we only found out about this a few hours ago. a last—minute press conference to say to the country, really, this is something we are concerned about, here is what we are concerned about, here is what we are concerned about, here is what we are putting in place to make sure we are putting in place to make sure we are putting in place to make sure we are properly prepared for it. a very early test for the prime minister, but a sign, i think, he wants to be seen to be out on top of this at the first opportunity. yes. this at the first opportunity. yes, we are just _ this at the first opportunity. yes, we are just keeping _ this at the first opportunity. yes, we are just keeping our - this at the first opportunity. yes, we are just keeping our eye on that at downing street because we are expecting the prime minister any moment. but while we are waiting, i wonder if you have any insight as to whether there is any more disorder expected? whether this is something that those police chiefs are hearing, that they are trying to get ahead of any further protests?

there is clearly chatter on social media