i'm stephen sackur. donald trump isn't getting the presidential election race he wanted, and he doesn't seem happy about it. a visibly ageing, faltering joe biden was the ideal punchbag. now he's in the ring with kamala harris, seemingly more energetic and confident running for the white house than she's been as vice president. the polls have tightened. republicans are suddenly nervous. my guest is chris ruddy, a long—time trump friend and ceo of the conservative media group newsmax. is team trump veering off track? chris ruddy in florida, welcome to hardtalk.

stephen, good to be back with you. it's great to talk to you. now, you know donald trump well, you talk to him pretty regularly. do you believe that he has been rattled by the transformation in the presidential election race that we've seen since kamala harris replaced joe biden as the democratic nominee? well, i would say, stephen, yes and no. it's probably a bit disconcerting. i actually spoke to him last night by telephone. i got a sense that he's quite...quite surprised and pleasantly surprised, i would say, by the pick of walz. you know, it doesn't seem like a smart political choice for the democrats — a far left governor of minnesota who nobody really knows nationally, but has a very liberal record.

the republicans are already calling him a radical. they've been calling kamala harris a san francisco radical. so it doesn't seem to be a smart political choice. and i think the president... president trump, sees this as a great opportunity for his campaign. well, it's interesting that you've alighted so quickly on harris�* pick of tim walz, the governor of minnesota, to run as her running mate, as vice presidential candidate, cos trump's team is clearly — and you've just done it, trying to portray the ticket of harris—walz as dangerously liberal. but if you actually look at walz�*s record, for example, he served two decades in the national guard. his signature issue as governor of minnesota was delivering universal free school meals. he's a man who for many years has advocated gun rights. you're going to have a tough time portraying him as some sort of dangerous,

wacko liberal. well, i think if you look carefully at some of the things he's supposedly signed on, some very woke policies, especially on the crime. you know, when the blm riots started, ground zero was in minneapolis. that's where george floyd... the incident involving george floyd injune of 2020 was in was in minneapolis, in minnesota. and his response was very awful. it was not supportive of the police during the riots. and then he was helping — like kamala harris was — bailing out and getting out ofjail people that were violent protesters. some of them have gone on to commit very vicious, violent crimes after they were bailed out by kamala and governor walz. so i think it's not a very good, positive record, and i think that people are going to look very carefully... i think as a congressman, he wasn't so bad. but i think he, if you look at different policies, generally he's on the left. you know, people say he's

a clone of bernie sanders. you've raised some issues there which the harris team would absolutely reject. but let's just stick to facts as much as we can. we know that when he first ran for congress, he ran in a republican district, and he won over many republican voters. if you look at his style in the governor's office, he is what you might call homespun middle american. and he, very successfully, already, in recent weeks as he's turned his attention to trump and jd vance, trump's vice presidential pick, he's alighted upon this word, "weird", to capture something about the trump—vance ticket, and it seems to be gaining traction. jd vance supports traditional family values, conservative approach to government, basic protection of liberties and civil rights. and... is that weird? i don't know. the guy had a very stellar career in business, and then he was a famous new york times bestselling author.

try this for weird. jd vance talking to fox news three or so years ago, talking about how the us was dominated by, quote, "a bunch "of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own "lives, at the choices they've made, and so they want to make "the rest of our country miserable." that's weird. well, you know, ithink we sometimes call that in america kitchen table talk, things people say off the cuff to be a little bit provocative. you know, i think it's odd that kamala harris, vice president, she's supposedly the border tsar — although she now claims she wasn't, even though joe biden announced she was — she was asked by nbc... no, let's stick... let's stick to facts. that's not strictly true. she was given a very specific task, and that is to look at the root causes that were driving people toward mexico from central america. she was never, ever given thejob of border tsar. you would see, stephen, hundreds of press mentions in respected media,

from the new york times to axios, all of these places that called her the border tsar. now they're all... no, i'm just talking about the actual specific job she was given. i'm not talking about media labels. i'm talking about the job she was given. i mean, you run a news organisation, and i know that you say that you are pledged to speaking truth, so let's try to stick to the truth. well, in america, when we appoint a border tsar, oftentimes the tsar is not an official title of the government — they're put in charge of a portfolio. she was put in charge of fixing the border. nbc asked her and said, "why, if you're in charge of "the border, haven't you gone to the border?" and her response — which was rather weird — was, "well, i haven't gone to europe either yet." i mean, we've had a major crisis... do you know how many people have crossed over the border? 10—15 million people.

it's so bad, stephen, they're actually... the us government's actually paying for tickets, airline tickets, for people to leave mexico to fly into american cities. we're putting them up at four— or five—star hotels in major cities. we're giving them credit cards and cellphones... i know this is a big issue for conservatives... it's bizarre. but it's pretty hard... it's not an issue. it's a crisis. well, it's a very important issue, and it's a pretty difficult issue to explain to americans, why the republican party, led by donald trump, then refused to accept what had been a bipartisan border security piece of legislation, that was blocked in the senate, having been worked upon by a whole bunch of respected republican senators. it looked like, to many americans, donald trump didn't want a solution to the border problem. he just wanted to keep it bubbling away as an election issue. well, i personally think they should have passed that bill, with all the warts and problems it had. but, remember, that bill wasn'tjust really securing the border. it had a whole plan for amnesty and restitution, and all sorts of things that would have kept...changes to the asylum programme. and that's why republicans, they did not give a clean border bill. typical of the democrats.

what they do is, like a christmas tree, they put every little fixing and ornament they can on these bills, and they know... they, like, put a gun to the republicans�* head, and say, "either pass the bill that you want, "and you have to take all of our stuff." and all of the stuff is oftentimes huge spending programmes, or loopholes. and the republicans are just not being walked over any more. so i think, you know, it's only a few months before a change of government is likely here. so the republicans are saying, let's wait to see if president trump will have the same approach. right, you say a change of government is likely. i know you at newsmax, like all media organisations, look very closely at the polls. you'll have seen the polls tighten significantly in recent days. frank luntz, the respected pollster, has said that right now that kamala harris is the frontrunner nationally. we know the swing states look much closer than they did even two weeks ago. and if you look at... if you dig deep into the data, donald trump, who was making some inroads amongst black and latino voters,

for example, now seems to be losing a lot of those votes to kamala harris. and it may be because — coming back to that word "weird" — he said some pretty weird things about kamala harris�* racial identity. you know trump. have you advised him to back off? well, i don't really give him advice. i'm a friend, i've known him for maybe almost 30 years, and we've spoken often on personal, business, and political matters for years. and i think... newsmax.com, ourwebsite, covers these polls and tracks them now. we were chatting about the polls last night when i spoke to the president and i said, look, you know, kamala harris is at her highest point right now, the honeymoon and everything. just like you're saying, it's tightening. you know, it's really a dead even race at her highest point. the tipp poll, which i think is one of the best polls, has it as dead even — she's at a6, trump's at a5. statistically, a dead heat.

let's just stick on the race issue for a while, cos it matters to americans, many americans. this is what donald trump said. again, as a friend of his, i want you to tell me whether you think it was a sensible thing to say. trump said this, "i didn't know that kamala harris was black "until a number of years ago, when she happened "to turn black. now she wants to be known as black." "all of a sudden, she's made this turn, "become a black person. "i don't know. is she indian? is she black?" i mean, what is trump driving at here? it's quite simple — kamala harris has parentage that involves jamaica and india. like so many americans, she is an ethnic mix. why is trump struggling with this and trying to suggest that she's suddenly "become black"?

because, stephen, the democrats have made identity politics their number one thing. joe biden said, when he picked his vice president back in 2020, "i am going to find," he said, "and pick a black woman." it wasn't an experienced person that's going to be vice president, or somebody who could be president. he said, "i need to find, politically, a black woman." because democrats are into identity politics. trump's hitting that head—on. now, i would disagree. i would not have made comments about her racial mix. i don't really think it matters what her race is, personally. i think, look at her record, she's had a terrible record. she's not been very popular in the democratic party. i think most people would say she's rather disliked within the democratic party, and i think more and more, when people look at her record, her background, herfailures, i think she's not going to really hold water. but... trump will. .. hang on, let... ..will re—emerge. you're suggesting this isn't a big deal — i mean, there'sjust a basic matter of respect here. you know, many republicans on your network have described her as the dei candidate, referring to that phrase diversity, equity, inclusion. how do you explain...? let me just finish the point.

are you suggesting, or at least are your friends and associates in the republican party, suggesting that somehow she's not qualified? how is that not a dei? ifjoe biden says, "i'm looking for a black woman" to be my vice president. donald trump never said, "i'm looking for a black, a hispanic..." he said, "i'm looking for a well qualified person "who i think could be president "and represent the future of america." he picked jd vance. you may like it or not like it, but he didn't pick him on racial bounds. and so when he questions now her background as an african—american, you know, i would not get into racial issues at all. personally, i think it's a mistake. going back tojd vance and comparing him with tim walz, the negatives around vance, according to the polls, are very high — notjust the whole "cat ladies" thing, but also his idea that parents who have children should get votes on behalf of their children until they're 18. his statement that childless people don't really have a stake in america. these are all things — plus his hardline stand on abortion — which a majority

of americans do not support. they are things that are seen as negative by many in the public. let's go through that. and your... hang on. the conservative commentator... a majority of americans... the conservative commentator ben shapiro said this. he said, "if you had a time machine, "if you could go back a few weeks, "would trump have picked jd vance again? "i doubt it." again, when you talk to trump, is there any suggestion that he might be ditched, thatjd vance might actually be ditched from this ticket?

none, so i don't think that'll happen — but i do think, i predict in a month or two, people are going to seejd vance a lot more, that he'll be in a debate with walz and others, and they're going to say, "well, this guy's pretty smart. "he's pretty reasonable. " um, you know, look, everybody, if you go back off the record and look at anybody�*s comments and things, this is a guy that was on the hustings as a book author and other things, and he's evolved. he's relatively young. they're going to say things — but i'm not here to represent jd vance. i'm just telling you, i agree some of the things are odd. i would say that america tends to be more of a pro—life nation than a pro—abortion nation. i think that most americans want some restrictions on abortion. and so i don't think that he's so far out of the mainstream on the abortion issue. trump's position is it's a state's right issue, and the states should handle it. most americans, i think, agree with that. let me ask you a more general point about, you know, three months or so of campaigning to come. there are some in the republican party who appear to believe that trump needs to take some advice. it's very difficult, though, to give trump advice, because if you air anything that sounds like criticism, he gets very angry very quickly. i mean, he's totally fallen out

with his former vice president, mike pence, who said he won't even vote for him, or at least he wouldn't endorse him. um, the very popular governor of georgia, who's a successful republican, brian kemp, is having a running feud with donald trump. are you — you know, be honest with me — are you, as a supporter of trump, as somebody who's ideologically, you know, and personally, close to him, are you able to give him hard truths? well, i would say that i've been able to tell him my positions and my views on things. i think what annoys him is if he's got a vice president or somebody that he selected and the man is publicly disagreeing with him, he gets upset, and so he sometimes has issues with that. i personally have told him things that he disagrees with. i've remained friendly with him. i don't agree, by the way, with everything he says on issues, and there are many things i will disagree with him on, but i do think that he, if you look at his overall record as president and compare it to the biden—harris record, i don't think, hands down, i think people all over the world have to agree the world was much safer and there was more peace all over the world, and just on that score, we've got to be very worried about the future of the world, and i think trump will give the leadership

the country and the world needs. just as a point of interest, what do you deeply disagree with trump on, and how do you frame it when you tell him? well... well, for instance, i have said publicly that i'm more for immigration. i think immigration is a good thing. i oppose illegal immigration, i oppose border security, but i'm a champion of bringing more immigrants into america. we need more educated, more trained people coming into the united states. there's a lot of people all over the world that would... one of the successes of america was that we're a nation of immigrants. trump himself comes from parents, and melania is an immigrant. so all of these things, i think, are very positive, and i think the republican party's made a mistake by being so...so immigrant... anti—immigrant. i also think that we need more competition in big tech. there was not enough effort in the trump administration to fight the stranglehold that big tech has over the country,

over the economy, and i think it's a grave danger that a handful of companies, basically, have become oligarchical and have so much influence over washington. i think they need to be broken up as monopolies, like google. so all of these things... interesting. i want to come back to that, in particular big tech and the media, but before i do, just as a ceo of a very significant conservative media operation, newsmax, do you believe that something very different is happening in this election cycle, that a lot of people, particularly young americans, aren't getting their news and information primarily from legacy media, terrestrial tv in particular, they're getting their crucial bites of information from social media platforms — from x, from tiktok, from facebook — and how is that changing this political debate? well, it's having a huge impact, but, you know,

i think it's happening on both sides. newsmax has seen an incredible rise. reuters just came out with a study, said that we're one of the 12 most influential news brands in america. we're relatively new. we're not a legacy media company, and we're now competing with all the majors. one of the reasons why we're even going public later this year, earlier this year, i might mention to your audience, if you're interested in learning more about newsmax, we have a website, newsmax—invest.com. people all over the world can join with us, newsmax—invest.com — and i think one of the reasons we've been successful, president trump's public company has come out and been so successful, is that americans are turning off the old media, and it's young people and old people, and they're going to new media companies like newsmax, and so we're seeing that in the numbers. it's notjust people that are against trump. mm. but with respect, aren't you pretty much just an echo chamber, whether it's on your tv channel or your online operation, you're partisan, people know where you're coming from politically, and people... well...

hang on, let mejust finish the thought. when americans are asked who they trust in the media, and this is a yougov poll i'm looking at from just earlier this year, you at newsmax come down very low. you have a minus rating — and i'm not wishing to blow the trumpet of the bbc, but the bbc and pbs... that's not true. ..as far as americans are aware of them, they get high ratings. the weather channel gets the best rating of all, but trust is very low in people like you. baloney, baloney, baloney. the yougov—economist study, look it up, 2023, 2020, 2023, shows newsmax is one of the highest rated — we're almost on par with cnn, fox, and msnbc for public trust and confidence. you're using some metric to claim there's a minus. we're on par with all three of those as one of the most trusted media in the us — and we've been rising. we're up about 20% from the previous study. so when you talk about echo chamber, when i will listen to the bbc, it's an echo chamber of all the liberal media around the country.

when you complain about, you know, support dei, dei is an extraconstitutional approach, it's not been ever legislated and it's being forced on companies and individuals all over the world, and it's a dangerous thing. it's disguised socialism. and newsmax is conservative, we're honest about that, where the bbc is not honest that it's liberal — we're honest that we're conservative, but we always say that we look for liberal opinion, perspective, and other points of view. and if you tune into newsmax, and people can do it all over the world for free, you'll see that we have opinions all day that are critical of donald trump. mm. show me people are coming on the bbc regularly supporting donald trump. i give you credit, stephen. i've always felt you've been at least open to different, diverse points of view. mm. i'm not sure it's true of the whole bbc world. well, i... but, um... no, i appreciate... i appreciate that thought. thank you very much.

i want to ask you about what happens next. obviously we don't know whether trump is going to win or lose, but let's assume he wins. there are concerns about the kind of second term donald trump might seek. some people are talking about authoritarianism, about a desire for vengeance, and they're basing that on things that trump in the past has said, some of his key associates have said — do you believe that there might be a desire for vengeance? well, i... you know, i think that the democrats were pretty vindictive. i mean, four criminal prosecutions, a lot of them are just ridiculous stuff that came up against him, allegations from 30 years ago and civil cases that had no evidence. i mean, you go through that, and i think there's a lot of constitutional checks on the president. i think there's a lot of congressional checks on the president. so i think the idea that even if he wanted to go after some of his enemies, i think it would be very difficult. i don't think that that should be a pursuit of his. i can understand people have a lot of anger about political stuff, but i do think that, at the end of the day...

look, trump never went after hillary clinton when he was president. he never had a history of going after anybody, really, judicially, in his four years as president. he says a lot of things off the cuff, and some of it's just for effect and rhetoric. so i would not buy into it necessarily. look again at his track record and biden�*s track record. ok, we're almost out of time, but you say look at the track record. well, we all know what happened onjanuary 6th, 2021. if trump isn't successful — and you've told me that right now the polls are neck and neck, it is anyone�*s race — if trump loses, do you believe he's going to accept defeat, he's going to leave the scene peacefully and gracefully?

well, i've said in the �*20 election he should have accepted the �*20 election results. we believe, at newsmax, those were legal and final results. you know, january 6th was disgraceful, what happened there. i don't believe that trump pushed for that to happen. i don't think there was any evidence, after many investigations, indicating that he did. so there's a lot of spin that comes out of these things, and i believe that the elections, if they're certified and declared by the courts in america as legal, they should be accepted as legal. but why presume? let's wait... i appreciate you... ..for the results and see what happens. i appreciate you feel that, chris ruddy, but do you truly believe donald trump is prepared to accept that? i can't really speak for the mind of donald trump. i'm going to let him do that. i can only tell you what i think he should do and what i would do, and i think it would be in the best interest of the united states to accept the result, if they're legal and certified. if he... look, it's a free country. if he wants to complain about it, we're allowed to do that in america. there's nothing wrong. all right. chris ruddy, i thank you very much forjoining me from florida on hardtalk. thank you very much.

thank you, sir. hello there. for many parts of the country, i think wednesday was a pretty cloudy day, the best of any sunshine across scotland and northern ireland. there were a few passing showers here, whereas further southwards across parts of england and wales really limited to just glimpses of sunshine. it was pretty cloudy for much of the day. looking out in the atlantic, we've got another area of low pressure that's set to bring some damp weather in initially thursday morning, as this warm front spreads its way in.

mind you, we have got some drizzle around at the moment. ahead of that feature across wales and western areas of england are not patchy drizzle for the south—east. we've got some showers for the north west of scotland, but the skies continue to clear in east scotland and north east england, so it's here where we're going to have the brightest start to the day on thursday with a fair bit of morning, sunshine. any sunshine in southeast england short—lived. it's going to turn quite cloudy, but staying on the bright side, the damp and drizzly weather for wales and western england replaced by more general outbreaks of rain through the day, the rain heavy as it swings across northern ireland into scotland, northern england and north wales. top temperatures running into the low 20s. now, through thursday night that we'll see that rain band continue its way northwards and eastwards, the rain turning heavy for a time in northern scotland before clearing out of the way, and there may well be a hang back of cloud, still bits and pieces of rain left over into friday morning before this front finally pulls out of the way.

then we get this little ridge of high pressure starting to build from the west, and that means an improving weather picture. rain clearing away then from eastern england. many of us will have fine spells of sunshine developing through the day. ok, there'll be a few showers for west scotland, an odd one for northern ireland, north wales, but for many during the afternoon on friday it will be dry with sunny spells, temperatures widely into the 20s and getting warmer across east anglia and south east england with temperatures into the mid 20s. a warming trend because the jet stream is going to change as warm air gets brought northwards by tropical storm debby, colder air comes out of canada. it changes the shape of the jet stream. the jet stream gets more wiggly through the weekend. the significance of that is we get underneath this ridge and that makes it get a lot warmer, if not hotter, particularly across parts of england and wales, where temperatures will push into the low 30s. the short blast of heat, though not everywhere. there will, i think, be some heavy rain to come across the north and west of the uk. that's the latest.

live from london, this is bbc news. thousands of counter—protesters take to the streets across england after a wave of anti—immigration riots and disorder. three taylor swift concerts

in vienna have been cancelled after two men were arrested on suspicion of planning an islamist attack. president biden says he is not confident there will be a peaceful transition of power if donald trump loses the election in november. he means what he says. if we don't take him seriously. he means it all about it if he loses there will be a bloodbath. and the real—life disaster story that inspired the edinburgh fringe. hello and welcome to the programme. i'm sally bundock. thousands of people have taken to the streets of towns and cities across england in counter—demonstrations against a wave of riots by anti—immigration protesters. more than 6,000 police officers were mobilised on wednesday evening, from newcastle to birmingham, liverpool

to brighton, sheffield to london.