# do you really want to hurt me? known for his soulful vocals, pioneering androgynous style and bold opinions across a ao—year career, boy george has topped the charts many times, both in culture club and as a solo artist. # i know all there is to know. # about the crying game. never far from the tabloid press, his ups and downs are well documented. but in recent years, he's been living a more stable life and once again enjoying his time in the spotlight. he's been a mentor on the voice, received an ivor novello lifetime achievement award and remains a hugely popular cultural figure. in this episode of this cultural life, the radio 4 programme, boy george reveals his formative influences and experiences and speaks candidly about the prison sentence that helped turn his life around. i knew i was never going to go back.

i knew that i was going to rebuild my life when i came out and was going to change everything. you know, i definitely like who i am now and i'm very different to the person i was ten years ago, 20 years ago. take a seat. boy george, welcome to this cultural life. thank you. you were born george o'dowd in 1961 and you grew up in south london in a working class irish family. tell me about family life. what was it like growing up? well, i used to think that my family were the most insane family on the planet

because we had, like, chickens, we had, like, dogs, you know, we were — we stood out. we were like the hillbillies of the road. but growing up, ijust thought we were the maddest bunch ever. did you feel irish growing up? very. i mean, my name is o'dowd. i grew up in the �*70s with all the bombing and, you know, kids at school would be making comments and you were very aware of the fact that you were irish. i used to get called �*0'loud'. laughs. george o'loud — that was my name at school. and what were your interests at school? in fact, what was your education like? my education was probably spoilt by my behaviour. i wasn't a particularly compliant kid because at home, my dad ruled the roost — you know, what my dad said went. so, the minute i left the house, no—one was going to tell me what to do, whether it was the church or, you know, the police or the school. so, i had a bad attitude towards authority and i wore it proudly. and you say your dad ruled the roost at home.

he was a tough dad? he was a builder. i mean, he wasn't one thing but he was definitely prone to, you know, explosions. so, he went from being totally calm to being totally angry. and he was a gambler. so, if he gambled and won, it was heaven. if he gambled and lost, it wasn't so heavenly. and you know, my dad was also a brilliant man. he was handsome, he had beautiful handwriting, he could sing, he was super intelligent. and he boxed as well... and he boxes early on. —— and he boxed early on. but i think, you know... i think he felt frustrated creatively as a man. i think that, you know, what he did for a living wasn't enough, you know, because later on in his life, he was a reiki healer, he became very esoteric later on. but in the early days, it just wasn't allowed.

he didn't really know how to be a dad. he wasn't good at being a dad. you've talked about your mum a lot in the past and how you get a lot of your creativity from her. my mum was a great seamstress. she was just someone that could cook anything, make anything, tiling, wallpapering. my mum was just one of those people that nothing got in her way, except my dad. laughs. my dad got in her way. you know, if my mum put on a tight cardigan, she was having an affair. my mum was very stylish, beautiful clothes. but there were only very few occasions when my mum was really allowed to express who she was. and as a kid, i used to love seeing my mum in full make—up, you know, with her clothes, you know, these — she used to make these dresses with daisies and have matching shoes and, you know, i just always loved her dressed up. and later on, when i started to be a bit of an exhibitionist, i think to start with, my mum was against it. and then, she thought, "no, he's doing what i can't do," so she kind of fully supported me and became a sort of collaborator, in a way. were you an outgoing kid? at what point in your childhood did you think you might

want to perform for a living? i started, really, when i was a kid singing at the local old people's home. i used to go and do, like, roll out the barrel and my old man's a dustman and things like that with my girlfriends and i wanted to be a singer, i wanted to sing, you know? i wanted to be like my heroes, you know? and i wanted to sing. and you know, every day, music was the thing that saved me, really, from everything. on this programme, boy george, i ask my guests to choose the most important influences and experiences that have inspired their own creativity and your first choice is david bowie. and seeing ziggy stardust in 1973, that incredibly landmark tour, when you were — well, you would have been 11 years old, i guess? i wasjust coming up to my 12th birthday. my birthday is injune, so i'm always a bit younger than everyone, so... but that's incredibly young to have seen a bowie show. yeah, i was very lucky. lewisham odeon was the place we went to see every band and often, we'd break in and get in forfree — someone would open the stage door or someone, you know,

would let you run in. but i couldn't risk that with bowie. it wasn't something you could risk, like, not getting in. so, i had a ticket. i had no bus fare to get there, no bus fare to get back. i bunked the bus to lewisham and i walked back, singing bowie songs into an empty coke can on the way home. # so where were the spiders. # while the fly tried to break our balls? # just the beer light to guide us. # so we bitched about his fans. # and should we crush his sweet hands? what were your impressions of the gig itself? there was nothing like it — the lighting, the clothing, subjects... the theatricality. ..you know, the songs. i mean, you know, as a kid, it felt like he was just totally talking to me.

it felt like he totally got me, you know? "we're painting our faces and dressing in thoughts "from the skies" — it was like, i felt like, you know, he understood who i was and where i was and what i was going to be. that album, particularly — that album, when ziggy stardust came out, you know, the lyrics on that — "a cop knelt and kissed the feet of a priest "and a queer threw up at the sight of that." you know, it's like, "queer"? who's saying that in a song? you know, it's something you got called in school. yeah. it wasn't something people sung about. so, it was just everything about him. and were you aware of bowie�*s sexuality or the stories about his sexuality at the time? because it was never clear, was it, at the time? well, i think all rock stars — mickjagger, you know, bowie, marc bolan — they were all a bit sort of blurring the sort of sexual boundaries, you know, because being rock and roll, you know, you didn't say what you were, did you? "what are you into?" "i don't know. "what am i into? "you tell me." i think it was partly a sort of pose but it was also tapping in — if you think sort of homosexuality was only legalised in the late �*60s, so it was tapping into that

new kind of awareness of, you know, different sexuality. and, you know, if you wanted to be cool at that point, you embraced what was edgy and dangerous, in a way, you know, and misunderstood. and did bowie help validate those feelings that you had at that time? 1,000%. i mean, people say he was straight but, you know, the thing is it doesn't matter whether you're straight or gay, it matters whether you take the time to experiment, to be brave. your next choice for this programme is meeting the club promoter philip sallon, who was a real driving force behind the scene which was centred around the blitz club in covent garden in london in the late 19705. when did you meet philip? i and my girlfriend laura went to a punk night at the lyceum and because it had been all over the press, they wouldn't let us in with the ripped clothes. they said, "you can't come in with those clothes on". so, we were standing in the street, lost and forlorn, wondering what we were going to do with our lives.

we were all dressed up with nowhere to go. so, this is what, 1976? about �*76, yeah. and we met this flamboyant guy who was walking up the road — not philip. someone else took us to bangs, which was a notorious gay club on the tottenham court road. and this guyjust liked the look of us, took us with him to the club and in that club was philip sallon, dancing on a podium, lipstick, and you know, just looking absolutely fabulous, and we targeted him. i was like, "i just want to be best friends". and i made my girlfriend follow him into the toilets to borrow his black eyeliner and that's how we became friends, and that was it. after that, he was a big part of my life. did you know what he did? what his reputation was? or you just liked the look of him? no. i asked him if he was gay and he said, "are you interested?" and i was like, "oh, no". i was terrified because i wasn't out then. 0h, right. i was still in the closet. i had a girlfriend. oh, when you say "girlfriend," i thought you meant a friend who was... no, my girlfriend was called laura. yeah, she was my girlfriend from school and she was

gorgeous. so, i'd gone out with her to this club and then, you know, sort of met philip and then, gradually sort of started to go to, like, gay clubs with philip and laura got left behind. chuckles i think she went off with some boy. she went off with a straight boy. it was better for her. what did philip sallon offer you when you got to know him? excitement. philip was the most exciting, energetic person i'd ever come across. he was absolutely as gay as you could come. he was just outrageous. he wasn't someone who pretended to be straight. he was out, you know? and it was kind of a new thing for me to meet somebody who was so bold. so, he led you into this scene? he led us like gladiators around london. and you know, there was one fantastic night with philip i remember so vividly where we went to one club and we were going to another club, we got in a black taxi and he started changing in the back of the taxi. he, like, literally started changing his outfit. he was just 24/7 outrageous, philip. like, 24—hour outrageous all the time. there was no off button.

and around this time, you were spotted by malcolm mclaren, the manager of the sex pistols, and he invited you tojoin a band, bow wow wow, who actually had a couple of hits around this time. and from what i've read, you played a couple of gigs and were then sacked? so, matthew ashman was the guitarist who'd been in bow wow wow. malcolm had stolen adam ant�*s band... yeah. ..and formed bow wow wow. and so, matthew used to hear me sing and often said to me, "you've got a really good voice". malcolm brought me into bow wow wow because of the way i looked, and he thought it would threaten annabella... who was the lead singer at the time. yeah, she was 15. she was a young girl. so, he brought in this guy that looked like a girl, you know, to threaten her position and i think once he sort of got what he wanted out of me, threw me out of the band. were they the first gigs you ever played? yeah. i got pushed onstage at the rainbow theatre. big theatre. yeah, it was the — they did this big concert, bow wow wow, with the fairground. it was a big event and the audience were booing. they were like, "why are you on? "we want annabella."

but i got the taste. i was terrified but once i was on there, i thought, "this is great. "i want to do this again." and then, i did another gig in manchester, at the polytechnic in manchester, and that was when i was fired. then in 1980, you formed culture club with roy hay, the guitarist, and bassist mikey craig and drummerjon moss. yes. # there's a loving in your eyes all the way. # if i listened to your lies would you say. # i'm a man. #aman... did you come up with the name culture club? eventually. we were called can't wait club, we were called the caravan club — we were called all sorts of mad things. and then, eventually, we worked out that we were so, you know, diverse — jamaican, irish, jewish and then, you know, roy being a real essex boy — so, we were a real mix of cultures and sort of different types of people, you know? # karma, karma, karma, karma, karma, chameleon. # you come and go.

# loving would be easy if your colours were like my dream. # red, gold and green... you released your debut album in october 1982 and then, you had an amazingly successful hit single, do you really want to hurt me, which went to number one. it was a big hit all around the world. but, i mean, there was a moment when you were on top of the pops, which — i mean, i remember very clearly. everybody in the playground the next day was talking about this appearance. who was the bloke that looked like a girl, you know? # i have danced. # inside your eyes. # how can i be real?

# do you really want to hurt me? what do you remember of that night? we only found out we were going on the night before. we got a phone call to say, "there's a spot available "on top of the pops." we were at the low end of the charts, so we weren't even really eligible to be on there. we got lucky. and in my mind, i wanted to get itjust right. i wanted it to be as odd and kind of beautiful as it could be. you know, i spent a lot of time getting ready. # if it's love you want from me. # then take it away. # everything's not what you see. # it's over again. # do you really want to hurt me? # do you really

want to make me cry? everybody was talking about it the next day. it was in the newspapers all week. i mean, it's overnight stardom. did you welcome that? well, it was interesting because, actually, the stuff that was written about us was actually quite derogatory and quite homophobic. it wasn't friendly. people weren't saying, "oh, wow." they were saying, "what is it? you know, "let's not let it near our kids." but i kind of didn't really get why people were so freaked out by what i was doing, but i also liked it. i liked the fact they were freaked out but i didn't understand why they were so freaked out because i understood even then, it was just clothes. it's just the make—up and clothes. why do you care? do you really want to hurt me, as i say, was a global hit. i think it went to number two in america. and that puts you on a totally different level of fame because, i mean, it's very rare for a british band to break america. especially a band like us, i mean... especially... it was like, "oh, my god"

but that's the thing, you see. i think people — you know, i think part of the reason why we were successful in america was because we were so british. did you get any advice as to how to deal with the limelight and that sudden superstar level of fame? well, everybody thinks they're an expert on fame, you know? everybody thinks they know what you should do and what you shouldn't do. but basically, at the beginning, you'rejust thrown in front of the headlights. you know, there's no real preparation. and when you're 20, you're not going to listen to someone giving you advice about how to be famous. you know, you'rejust like, "oh, shut up," you know? you just want to get on with it. and i mean, at that point, i hadn't even discovered therapy, questioning things i did. it wasjust no... i grew up in a family where you didn't discuss your problems. you didn't tell outsiders what's going on in the house, you know? so, it was really not until quite later that i was like, "oh! "there's another way of looking "at life." you know, growing up, you know, and the beginning of fame, it was a crash course.

there was no — no—one helped me at all. the next moment that you've chosen is — i'm going to quote here — "meeting quentin crisp "with andy warhol, keith haring, bianca jagger and "marilyn." that sounds like some party! where and when? i was in new york and i got a call at the hotel from andy warhol's assistant, saying, "andy's heard "you're in town. "we'd love to bring you — invite you to lunch." and they said, "would you like to invite anyone?" and i said, "oh, i'd love to meet quentin crisp." and they said, "we'll invite him." and he was there. and i'd just done this photo shoot with avedon, the famous photographer. so, when i sat down to lunch with quentin, you know — he said, "oh, mr george, what have you been doing?" and i said, "i just did a shoot with avedon" and he said, "all that running and chiffon — "you must be so energetic." i just peed myself laughing. and he really was the life of the lunch. quentin crisp was — you know, andy was very like — he didn't really give a lot away, you know? he watched more than spoke.

and quentin crisp was just so entertaining, so funny, and just kept telling stories and just so lovely. i loved him. so, you had requested his presence, and you must have... yeah. ..so, what did he mean to you, then, growing up? well, he was a pioneer. he was a — he was a liberator. i mean, he was different to us because he apologised for who he was and we didn't. that was the only thing i didn't have in common with quentin. but then, he got away with what he could at the time. i look at all of those characters, like oscar wilde, quentin crisp, alan turing, you know, all the people in america, harvey milk, all of those people were people that allowed me to be who i was, you know? as quentin crisp said, the life of a homosexual is a sad one. not for us — it was the opposite. i mean, you look at what's going on now with drag race and the world and how different it is. you know, back then, you know, quentin crisp was getting arrested for just walking down the street. warhol was hosting this lunch then but then, just quietly observing all that was going on.

what did he mean to you, growing up and developing your own artistry? you see, the thing was i was completely impressed by andy warhol. i loved andy warhol but i was so full of my own self—importance that i couldn't let him know. so, whenever we saw him, we were just ourselves and he didn't really get it. he didn't get that london humour. in his diaries, he insults me four times. every single entry is nasty but it's very funny. i mean, i saw it as a — i wasn't insulted, i was actually quite pleased that he bothered to mention me. what did he say about you? oh, that, you know, we're rude to him because he can't answer back and he's not quick enough and he says that cornelia guest, who was my best friend — she was a sort of society queen — he said she's become horrible since she's become friends with me! like we had a bad influence. so, yeah, i mean, it's a shame i wasn't nicer to him at the time, but there you go — that's life. laughs. you had a very well—documented struggle with drug addiction. when did you first use heroin? it sounds so weird because i had really started

smoking dope first. i was smoking weed and then, i was in paris at a fashion show, and i was looking for cocaine and somebody had heroin and i just took that instead, which was quite insane when i think about it, but i didn't think about it at the time. it wasjust, you know, i wanted to be high and, erm... i mean, the thing about drugs is people use them because they don't want to be in their lives. they want to feel differently. they want to change the way they feel about themselves. but it's interesting that you say you were taking drugs to escape... yeah. i mean, do you feel that you were lucky to have survived at times? i don't think you think that about yourself because you're so in it when you're doing it that you don't sort of — you don't sit around thinking about it. it's only when you get clean and you look back and you think, "oh, my god." you might see an interview where you're a little bit skewwhiff. you think, "why didn't anyone tell me?" and of course they did! people often did say, you know, "what are you doing?" and i would say, "i'm fine, i'm fine!" so, you know, you talk

your way out of a lot. and you see it a lot with artists, you know, where people just kind of almost, like, can't do anything, especially if you're an adult. you're an adult, you pay your taxes, you've got a bank account. it's very hard to stop somebody when they want to be destructive. and, i guess, it arguably did get worse because in 2009, you were sentenced to 15 months in prison. mmm. file: the singer boy george has been jailed for 15 months. - he was convicted last year of falsely imprisoning a man at his flat in east london. the court was told he attacked his victim, handcuffed him and hit him with a chain. i know you served four months and that was for assault and false imprisonment. how did you...? read the book, actually. i've read the book. i think i explain it — because i think that's such a tabloid... yeah, but... ..it�*s such a tabloid way of explaining it and i think in the book, ifinally make sense of what actually happened and... of what you were convicted of. what i was convicted of is, uh, assault but actually, the assault was handcuffing, i wasn't beating anyone up — and i make it really clear

in my book. and it was 17 years ago. i paid for my crime and went to prison. that's the worst thing that could ever happen to anyone, to have your freedom taken away from you. it's if you want to live in a civilised society, you have to accept the way it runs. and i've been through the mill and i've paid. how were you treated in prison? brilliantly. i mean, obviously, when i went in there, i didn't know what i was going to find, you know? but what i did discover is that who you are outside is who you are inside, you know? and, weirdly, you know, people wanted to meet me and they wanted to — you know, theyjust wanted to meet me. they were kind of fascinated by me. you say you coped brilliantly in there. yeah. i mean, how did you cope on a day—to—day basis? i remember my brothers coming to see me on a visit when i first got my first visit and i remember thinking, "i'm so glad it's me and not you three," because they would never have coped. really? no way. because i think, you know, i'd — you know, i got clean a year before i went to prison. mmm. so, i had a spiritual programme

and i was able to rationalise where i was in my life. i was able to say, "this is because of something i did "in the past. "it's not who i am now." so, i knew i was never going to go back. i knew that i was going to rebuild my life when i came out and was going to change everything. you know, i definitely like who i am now and i'm very different to the person i was ten years ago, 20 years ago. and you're still writing and still recording — i mean, you've released nine solo albums on top of the six that you recorded. i've released 52 tracks in the last two years on spotify. yeah. i release stuff all the time. i know. i was going to say, but you're very prolific at releasing exactly those individual tracks. so, looking back as a songwriter — which is your, i guess, your primary occupation — is there a single song that you are most proud of? i haven't written it yet. really? there's a few songs already online that i love and think are some of my best work. a song i wrote about liberace called how to be a chandelier — that's probably one of my favourite things i've ever written. basically, i mean, the industry that i was in doesn't exist,

so there's no rules any more. i don't see why anyone waits around to make a record. it seems so ridiculous. it's so easy to make records. is that liberating, then? well, when you see — people say, "oh, they waited 20 "years to make an album", why? laughs. why? wait 20 minutes. it's like, songwriting is easy. songwriting is easy. getting it played is not easy, you know, because you hear all the same things. but as a writer, you're not trying to write another karma chameleon. i've got no interest in writing karma chameleon. i want something much better than that. so, i think i'm in an industry that tries to suppress your creativity and you always want to get better at what you're doing, and i really do think that the way i perform now as an artist is night and day different to what i did in the �*80s. i was uncomfortable, i didn't know what i was doing, i was insecure. and now, i'm actually engaged with the audience. there's no fear. well, i was going to say what drives you on creatively? well, what i'm doing now is what keeps me excited. i mean, i'm not particularly interested in the past because the past doesn't exist. so, when people talk to me about the past, i'm like, "it doesn't exist".

i understand what they're doing but i think it's unhealthy to keep living over what you did when there's so much more to do now. so, i would say i'm a now person. i mean, i respect the past and i have to talk about it a lot and it doesn't bother me so much, but now is everything, kids. move on. laughs. boy george — george o'dowd — thank you for sharing your cultural life with us. that was a really good interview! thank you! thanks. they're rare! laughter. they are rare, i'm telling you! it's really rare, to talk to people and actually go, "actually, i've really enjoyed that." thank you.

hello there. heat and humidity is set to build as we go through the weekend but we do need to caveat that with saturday, there is going to be quite a lot of cloud around for most of us. but it will turn increasingly very warm and very humid from sunday onwards. let's take a look at what's happening, then. this weather front will bring more cloud on saturday into south west england and wales and with isobars quite tightly packed together further north, that's going to feed in plenty of showers, particularly from west to east across scotland throughout the day. southern scotland, northern ireland keeping some sunshine. england and wales quite a lot of cloud feeding in. at times, there'll be some light, drizzly rain and poor visibility through the irish sea coast there. top temperatures, though, 2a degrees. that's still 75 fahrenheit. but as we move out of saturday and into sunday, this area of low pressure is going to move in and allow the winds to change to a southerly direction. and that means we're going to tap into some very hot weather that's taking place across the mediterranean

at the moment. so, early morning cloud will break up quite quickly. a lot of dry, settled, sunny weather right across the country on sunday. increasingly hot, increasingly humid. this weather front threatening to the northwest but it will stay away during the daylight hours. 16—23 degrees likely in scotland. highest values, though, of 28 — 82 fahrenheit — in the southeast. that will lead to a very humid night to come and on monday, the heat is likely to peak. we could see some record—breaking heat in bordeaux if we get temperatures in excess of 41 degrees but for the southeast, we're likely to see temperatures peaking somewhere around 32 or 33 degrees. at the same time, further north, that weather front moves in and with that heat and humidity coupled with that front, we are likely to see some sharp, thundery downpours. really quite torrential, heavy rain for a time. that will freshen the story up further north but we've still got that heat and humidity clinging on in the south east

of england. one low eases away, another is likely to move in, again bringing some unsettled weather — not for all of us but, certainly, a fresher feel as we go through the week ahead. there will continue to be some lengthy spells of sunshine, particularly across southern england. showers or longer spells of rain likely further north.

live from washington, this is bbc news. a commercial plane crashes in sao paulo state in brazil, killing all 61 people on board. russia's military scrambles to protect its own territory after ukraine launches a major incursion across the border. the two rivals in the race for the white house are on the campaign trail, drumming up support in key

battleground states. hello, i'm sumi somaskanda. thank you forjoining us. the governor of brazil's sao paulo state declared three days of mourning after a plane crash killed all 61 people on board. a warning — the following pictures leading up to the moment of the crash are distressing. footage on social media shows the aircraft spiralling out of control. the cause of the crash remains unclear. the airline, voepass, said the plane was en route to the main airport in sao paulo city, when it came down in a residential area of vinhedo. authorities report no—one on the ground was injured. ana lucia witnessed the fatal crash, here's what she said translation: i thought it would fall on our yard. - it was scary, but thank god there were no victims. it seems that 62 people in the plane were the real victims. relatives of the victims gathered at the airport from where the plane departed, anxiously awaiting more information of their loved ones.

brazil's air force is investigating the crash