commotion parts of the uk have seen looting and race—based attacks, some centred around hotels housing asylum seekers — scenes the british prime minister condemned as "far—right thuggery". i guarantee you will regret taking part in this disorder, whether directly or those whipping up this action online. what's it been like to cover these riots? i've been speaking to the editor of the liverpool echo newspaper, maria breslin. yeah, i mean shocking and shameful scenes, really. it's very difficult to understand how the deaths of three little girls can be hijacked and this is the end result.

we knew that there were protests in liverpool at the weekend and also counter—protests of these two groups of people who met down at the pier head, the famous liver building that many of you will know. and there were clashes certainly involving the group and the police. two police officers were injured. there was a lot of disturbance around the town centre. there had been calls earlier from indeed a far—right group to protest at a mosque in the suburb of walton on saturday night, and that's where further trouble broke out. there was looting and a community hub, a library, was set on fire, so... yeah, and for you — sorry — but for you as the editor of the liverpool echo, for you, what are the practical challenges of deploying

reporters of yours to these — to this unrest, to this disorder? how do you ensure that they stay safe? what are the — what do you...? well, their safety is paramount. you know, we would not send someone who was uncomfortable in going and covering this. a lot of people wanted to but those who were a little bit less sure, we were totally respectful of that. we had safety precautions in place. and i must admit, you know, our parent company, reach, has been brilliant in supporting notjust us but other titles across the group. but you do have to be careful. on tuesday, which was the first night of the trouble in southport itself after a vigil for the little girls, a member of our team was attacked, had quite expensive equipment stolen, glasses broken, left with cuts and bruises. i know of people from other teams, he was spat at. someone had to take shelter in a local home, so... and do you think that is because they're members

of the local media or the media? no, i don't think it's specific. no, i don't think it's specific but whoever these disaffected people are, they certainly see us as part of the problem, possibly, or certainly reporting on what's going on, so it's really challenging, and, you know, it makes me really angry because we should be safe in doing ourjob. and you know, even back in the office, we've been, you know, had quite a few unpleasant phone calls this week. and even prior to the trouble... people saying what? what kinds of phone calls? a lot of phone calls that have been quite extreme in their nature in terms of racist language, etc, so it's really difficult. but, you know, i'm really proud of the professionalism shown by our team in being determined to report on what is happening in essentially our community. yeah, i mean, it's certainly

something i've experienced when i've been on the ground reporting on these sorts of things. you do get a lot of abuse. particularly, i mean, certainly reporting for the bbc, i was shocked by how much abuse you get as a bbc reporter. i wonder when it comes to yourjournalists, do you encourage them to speak to the people who are, you know, possibly not the most violent ones, but do you encourage them to speak to people on the ground? i think it really depends. obviously, you have to, you know, as you'll know, you have to judge every situation and obviously think of your safety first. and it's quite difficult, i think, because there's a lack of a coherent voice here in terms of, you know, we debated a lot about whether we use the word "protest", whether we use the word "riot", because they're quite loaded words. so, you know, we've taken our responsibilities extremely seriously. on this occasion, both in southport and in liverpool, we didn't actively seek to speak to the protesters — if that's the right word — because the climate

was just not right. but you did take the decision to call them protesters? we didn't, in the end. we didn't call it "protests". we called it what it was, which was violence on the streets, essentially, i'm afraid. absolutely. well, maria, stay with us, please. but, of course, liverpool wasn't the only city where violence erupted. bristol was also a scene of unrest, and priyanka raval from the bristol cable was there. priyanka, welcome to the media show. just tell us what happened in bristol on saturday night. so, in bristol, we were made aware that there was going to be a demonstration of the far—right at 7:00 and a counter—demonstration was organised an hour before that. they were both going to take place in the same area, which is a park called castle park, right in the city centre. i think everyone was really nervous about how it was going to go. we had two football friendlies in the city happening that day at city and rovers on either end of the city. there was a pro—palestine demonstration and i think

it was a busy saturday night, everyone was really worried — especially seeing as what had happened in the rest of the country, that it could become a real, you know, scenes like we saw elsewhere. i have to say that in bristol, though the scenes did get violent and ugly at times, the counter—demonstrators outnumbered the far—right by about three times as many and the police presence was huge and did successfully manage to keep the two sides apart. 0k. where it escalated... ..and when you talk about — when you mention the far—right, did you speak to people that you would consider far—right? what did they tell you about their motivations? and what were you thinking about, in terms of whether you should or shouldn't engage with them? yeah, i mean, ithink it was always our priority that we — not our priority but, yeah, it was always our plan to.

the way that the protest escalated was that eventually, the far—right, for want of a better phrase, went to a nearby hotel which was known to be housing refugees and asylum seekers. they actually — the counter—demonstrators managed to form a blockade in front of the entrance and that meant that no—one could get through, which is great. but they actually arrived before the police even arrived and were — had to endure quite an assault. like, the protesters who came kicked them, punched them, and theyjust held the line for about ten minutes until the police got there and managed to separate the two. and were you there? were you talking to these people? were you engaging with them? were you concerned about your own safety? at this point, the scenes were moving so quickly that i think we were just watching, seeing as things unfolded. you know, we get a bit caught up in some of the tussles at times. after that, when things died down and the police had managed to separate people and there

was a bit of a lull, that's when we took the opportunity to speak to people outside of the hotel. and i think the thing that we were really — the conversations that we were having were really interesting, really nuanced. a lot of people were complaining about the state of the country. they were complaining about homelessness and the nhs and the cost of living and just feeling really hard done by. but where we challenged them is that while those were legitimate concerns, what me and my colleague sean morrison were really pushing people on was, "but why is that the fault of the migrants in this hotel?" "why is that the fault of some of the most vulnerable people "in our society who might have fled war—torn countries?" and the responses were, you know, either they, you know, there wasn't a response, some of the responses were racist, some of the responses were, you know, just this sense of, "they are gaining and it comes "at our expense." and i think as the night went

on, those were the kind of conversations that we were having, and i think that's what we've been left with is just understanding why a section of society has that kind of idea. i want to talk to stephanie stacey, who's technology reporter at the financial times, because there are other more high—profile names who seem to have got involved in what's going on here in the uk, including, stephanie, elon musk. just talk about how he's intervened in the riots because he's been tweeting all sorts of things — about civil war being inevitable and, you know, following a statement from the prime minister criticising the attacks on muslim communities, he questioned why all communities shouldn't be protected. what's going on? absolutely. in the past few days, elon seems to have been tweeting nonstop about the uk. he's got, i think, more than 190 million followers. and some researchers have looked at the spikes in engagement with tweets that he's just replied to — he hasn't even reshared — but they get seen by so many more people, and that's included some very notorious right—wing and

far—right accounts. i was going to ask how useful is x to those sorts of people, of people, far—right influencers? is it their main platform or is it a gateway to more private networks? i think it is a bit of both, to be honest. since elon musk took over twitter and made it into x, he removed a lot of the moderation staff and then, later on, he allowed a lot of people that had been banned from twitter back onto x, so that includes tommy robinson, who came back onto the platform... now seems to have 900,000 followers. yes. and having his videos interacted with by the owner of the platform. so, it's potentially become more of an active vessel for them but i think it's also a bridge — that's the word one researcher i spoke to used — onto other platforms such as telegram, where they can potentially engage more normal and less radicalised users who are potentially vulnerable to some of the misinformation. and then... it's interesting, because — sorry to interrupt — but ofcom has just put out this letter in the last hour or so to online service providers operating in the uk,

talking about how, you know, talking to them about their duties, also saying, you know, things will change even more with the online safety act that's due to come in. but they do say, "you can act now". "there's no need to wait to make your sites and apps "safer for users." and when they say "safer," they mean, you know, don't spread harmful video material, don't incite illegal activity. i think the thing with x in particular, x appears to have been particularly resistant to the uk's calls for moderation. telegram did delete some of the groups that were spreading calls to violence on the platform after they were flagged but x has been very resistant and has gone to elon musk directly, tagging keir starmer in tweets and sort of resisting very hard any call for moderation. and how do you gauge, then, musk�*s intervention in these debates? i mean, is there any kind of precedent for a corporate figure with so much power and money taking such a strong position politically

in another country's affairs? not that i can think of, definitely not with his scale of audience, scale of wealth and just pure platform. he owns this platform that's hugely influential in public discourse, and he is — i'm not sure the exact ranking but he's definitely one of the most widely followed on it. i don't think it's the last time that we're going to be talking about this but we're going to end this bit for now. thank you so much to priyanka raval from the bristol cable, stephanie stacey from the ft, and maria breslin from the liverpool echo. please do stay with us because we're going to be talking to you again later in the programme. every day now, martha would be outside — this ticking time bomb on my life. i would leave first thing in the morning and she would be there. i love you, nipple! now, the saga of the fallout around the netflix hit show baby reindeer is something we've covered a few times in recent months, but there's been a development. jake kanter of deadline magazine fills us in. yeah, i mean, this is a fascinating story and it's got plenty of mileage

in it left, i think. i think — so, baby reindeer was this monster hit on netflix. you know, tens of millions of views. it's one of their biggest shows ever. and essentially, it is written by a man called richard gadd and it is about his own experience. he is a comedian who is, you know, allegedly stalked by someone he knows. and what we have seen erupt around this show is the sort of blurring lines between art and reality. we — it was billed as a true story and very quickly after the series broadcast or aired — sorry — streamed on netflix, the individual that is accused of stalking richard gadd was identified as a woman called fiona harvey. and fiona harvey has essentially taken netflix to court.

she has sued them for about $170 million... for defamation. ..describing the series as one of the — yeah, for defamation — describing the series as one of the biggest lies in british television history. and netflix — just to interrupt — netflix told the uk parliament in may that baby reindeer was a, quote, "true story of the horrific abuse suffered "by the writer richard gadd at the hands," quote, "of a convicted stalker." but they've now rowed back on that, haven't they? that's right. yeah. benjamin king, who is a policy director here in the uk for netflix, gave that evidence to parliament. and we revealed — deadline revealed last week that netflix has since clarified that position and made clear that fiona harvey — or martha, who, as she is known in the series — was not convicted and, in fact, was only subject to a court order — that's despite the show

being billed as a true story and her being shown in court going down for, you know, for a stalking conviction, effectively. yeah. and we've also seen the writer, richard gadd, as you mentioned him — he submitted recently a court statement supporting netflix�*s efforts to get fiona harvey's suit — this defamation suit — struck out in america where it's being heard. what was in that and what stuck out for you in that? well, i think it's really interesting. i think for the first time last week, we got our first look at netflix�*s legal defence of baby reindeer. as you say, it filed this motion to dismiss the lawsuit, and that included statements from richard gadd and some others. i think, simply speaking, netflix is trying to make two arguments here. the first is that the character martha is not fiona harvey. it's a fictional character based on fictional personality traits. and the second is that she cannot be defamed because she has already tarnished her own character through her actions

in the past. the statement from richard gadd and a former colleague of harvey's, a woman called laura wray, they detail the alleged harassment that they've suffered at the hands of fiona harvey and they both describe having court orders against her, so you've kind of got this dual—pronged defence from netflix. meanwhile, fiona harvey's lawyer then accused richard gadd of being a glory—hunter. he said, "i do believe he's out for fame, he's out for glory." it all felt quite american. i don't think you get british lawyers saying that kind of thing. yeah, this is playing out in a hollywood court, so we're going to get a bit of hyperbole, i think. and i would say this, i would say this — i think this is getting a bit lost, ithink, in the sort of legal noise around this show that baby reindeer is an enormous british success story. you know, i talked about the ratings that it was getting on netflix. i don't...

you know, the other thing i should say is it's got 11 emmy nominations, which is significant... and it's a great watch! yeah! i don't think an original british show has broken through in hollywood in this way since probably fleabag, i think. look, martha, just go back home. i have a sneaky feeling - you might be the death of me. boop. laughs. well, there we go. we'll see whether richard gadd starts writing the next bond film or something. anyway, thanks, jake ka nter. really interesting. but i've got a question for us all now, which is what qualities do you need to be a journalist? because the nctj, the national council for the training ofjournalists, is developing a new course to develop resilience in people who want to become reporters. they say the younger generation lacks confidence when it comes to tasks like cold calling and phone interviews. so, how widespread is the problem? is it a problem? well, to discuss it all, i'm joined by laura adams,

head of thejournalism skills academy at the nctj. welcome, laura. just explain why you're offering these courses now. in 2023, we put together an industry panel, so we kind of brought employers from across the industry together to actually discuss issues around safety and resilience. and one of the themes that has come through during, i'd say, probably the last nine to 12 months, is that, younger reporters — or at least early career reporters coming into the industry — are finding they're struggling with their confidence to carry out tasks that, you know, that we've always done. you know, things like, as you say, cold calling, having difficult conversations... pretty key for a journalist. yeah. they're all core skills. and you know, we've all had to go through that. and you know, some of those things like doorstepping, like approaching people in the street. i mean, that can be utterly terrifying. absolutely. i've been through it. we've all found that.

yeah. yeah, absolutely. but i think what's happening now is that because communication methods have changed so much over the years, now that — sort of that generation coming through, you know, are sort of finding some of those tasks a little bit more challenging. are you essentially — are you basically saying they don't pick up the phone in normal life, so it makes it more difficult in real life? is that where the anxiety comes from, or what is it about? it could be. i mean, i would say that there's, you know, a variety of factors that are contributing towards this. you can't ignore the fact that communication has changed. i've got a 12—year—old daughter who never picks up the phone, and she's just on social media. and i think we're sort of seeing that come through the different generations. my son only picks up the phone if his dad calls. he ignores my calls but then, if the dad's calling, he knows that it's serious and he's got to pick up. yeah, absolutely. so, you know, we can't ignore that. and obviously, there is a place for those other channels of communication, like social media and so on. 0k. so, how do you teach it, then? how, in your course, are you going to teach resilience and confidence?

what are you doing? practising making phone calls? or how does it work? yeah, i mean, there's two things that we're doing. we are — just at the moment, we're developing a course around building confidence, and this provides practical tips on doing some of those tasks. and we're also including contributions from industry — so, you know, relatable journalists who've been through this, have experienced it, you know, and can show how they've overcome it and, you know, offer some tips as well. stephanie stacey is still here from the ft. stephanie, i'm looking at you and i'm going to cast you in the role of the young journalist, just because you look very young! but, i mean, is it — when you listen to that — is it a fair assessment, do you think, of younger journalists, that you don't like to pick up the phone as much as perhaps other people got used to it? i don't know. yeah. i mean, i'm 25, which i think does make me a gen z. definitely young! so, um... from where i'm sitting anyway! definitely what you mentioned about the general culture around phone calls is probably true. i would say from my personal life, i wouldn't cold call any of my friends. they would think i was dead or dying and needing help!

and i think it's — i guess it's kind of a thing that is not such a normal thing to do in personal life. people might plan a text, send a text in advance. so, i think that is definitely something that people struggle with. and in yourjournalism, then, do you tend to send messages, voice notes rather than pick up the phone? orhow...? i tend to call. i do think you can't get around the fact that calling is still probably fundamentally the best way in, especially if you need to reach someone fast. i think it's also sometimes helpful, especially if you're communicating with someone else who's younger and might not be so comfortable with cold calling to send a text in advance, check they're ok with you giving them a ring and perhaps get on their level of communication. i have also spoken to some people through voice notes when they've been more comfortable with that, which has been helpful if it's what makes them be able to express themselves a bit better. and in terms of you realising calling was the way often to do it as a journalist, did that come upon you gradually? did you realise it from the beginning? did anyone tell you that? were you following other

people in the newsroom who were making calls? how do you think you learnt it? i think i kind of knew it. like, it's definitely something that if you are interested in becoming a journalist, you would read and see. but definitely, i think — and i'm sure this is true for everyone — it's not something that is the most comfortable thing initially. so, a lot of it, for me, that made it more easy to get to grips with was hearing other people in the office making those calls and also, just doing it, like you said, with practice. i think some of it could just be once you've done it, people are generally pretty nice. i so remember that as a trainee at itn, listening to people on the phone and thinking, "oh, that's how you do it!" and sort of copying them. and you know, of course, and that's why people were saying during covid it was difficult because people weren't listening to, you know, older people or people who had more experience doing their jobs and learning that way. but i wonder if you think there's a lot of unnecessary judgment around these anxieties. i mean, do you think an editor would respond kindly if a young journalist shared their concerns around "i don't feel "comfortable calling people" ? or do you think that

would be a total no—no? i think they should. i think it's still something you need to learn but that doesn't mean that it's wrong to be nervous or want some tips to get started with. and i also think it is potentially important to note that that might be a skill that seems obvious if you've been in the business for a while or just it was something you're used to doing but that is something people might need a bit of advice for. and maria, i'd like to ask you this too, but i'm going to askjake kanter first — bring you in on this. i mean, we all remember the sort of hideous phone calls that we've had to make or, you know, particularly as youngerjournalists knocking on doors or whatever. ijust wonder, when you listen to what we're talking about here, what do you think? is it sending a — i don't know, triggering you in some way? i'd be the first to admit that i used to get nervous before making phone calls when i was a slightly greenerjournalist — and i still do, i think. i think it would only be fair to admit that. i've never been a sort of swashbuckling phone hound. but i also recognise that it's really important to the job. i think the thing i always say to younger journalists is reporting, in essence, is about establishing

trust with people. and then, hopefully, they will impart information based on that trust. and it's much harder to gain someone�*s trust behind emails or dms. you have to speak to them either on the phone or in person and very often, that will take your reporting in directions that you had not expected as well. and i think both of those things are really important. and maria breslin, we talk about the door knock — something that we all have had to do in the past. is the door knock — i think i've discussed this with you before — but is the door knock becoming something, actually, thatjournalists have to do much less these days? i mean, yeah, people have digital footprints, don't they? and it's much easier to find out information that we may need or seek to find out. we might not have to knock on doors but, at the end of the day, there's sometimes the information that we need to tell, the stories we want to tell is on the other side of the door and we have to knock on it. so, it's a much more mixed picture these days.

but, you know, it still is part of the job and, you know, we do encourage people to knock on doors when, indeed, that's what we need to do. but it's not, you know — i've knocked far too many doors in my time and it's certainly not as big a part of the job today as it used to be maybe. that's it for this week. thanks so much forjoining us. goodbye. and if you'd like to hear a longer version of today's show, search, "bbc the media show" wherever you get your bbc podcasts. hello there. heat and humidity is set to build as we go through the weekend but we do need to caveat that with saturday, there is going to be quite a lot of cloud around for most of us. but it will turn increasingly very warm and very humid from sunday onwards. let's take a look at what's happening, then. this weather front will bring more cloud on saturday into south west england and wales and with isobars

quite tightly packed together further north, that's going to feed in plenty of showers, particularly from west to east across scotland throughout the day. southern scotland, northern ireland keeping some sunshine. england and wales, quite a lot of cloud feeding in. at times, there'll be some light, drizzly rain and poor visibility through the irish sea coast there. top temperatures, though, 2a degrees — that's still 75 fahrenheit. but as we move out of saturday and into sunday, this area of low pressure is going to move in and allow the winds to change to a southerly direction, and that means we're going to tap into some very hot weather that's taking place across the mediterranean at the moment. so, early morning cloud will break up quite quickly. a lot of dry, settled, sunny weather right across the country on sunday. increasingly hot, increasingly humid. this weather front threatening to the northwest but it will stay away during the daylight hours. 16—23 degrees likely in scotland. highest values, though, of 28 — 82 fahrenheit — in the southeast. that will lead to a very humid night to come and on monday, the heat is likely to peak.

we could see some record—breaking heat in bordeaux if we get temperatures in excess of 41 degrees but for the southeast, we're likely to see temperatures peaking somewhere around 32 or 33 degrees. at the same time, further north, that weather front moves in and with that heat and humidity coupled with that front, we are likely to see some sharp, thundery downpours. really quite torrential, heavy rain for a time. that will freshen the story up further north but we've still got that heat and humidity clinging on in the south east of england. one low eases away, another is likely to move in, again bringing some unsettled weather — not for all of us but, certainly, a fresher feel as we go through the week ahead. there will continue to be some lengthy spells of sunshine, particularly across southern england. showers or longer spells of rain likely further north.

live from london, this is bbc news. moscow introduces new security measures in three border regions in response to this week's surprise incursion by ukrainian forces. a plane carrying 61 people crashes near the city of sao paulo in brazil, killing everyone on board. king charles expresses his heartfelt thanks to police and emergency services in his first comments

since the outbreak of widespread disorder across the uk. and the algerian boxer in the middle of a gender row, imane khelif, wins gold at the paris games. hello and welcome to the programme. i'm helena humphrey. we start with breaking news from the middle east. palestinian sources in gaza are alleging heavy loss of life after an israeli strike on a school in gaza city. the hamas—controlled civil defence agency says at least 90 people were killed and dozens wounded when the daraj district was bombed. mohamed taha from bbc arabic is with me in the studio. good to have you with us. what is the latest we're learning at

this hour?