hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. the uk government considers banning smoking in pub gardens and outdoor restaurants, as part of a drive to phase out tobacco. welcome back. in whichever country you live, there is always a debate about debt and how much government departments are spending. it seems to be all we talk about here in the uk. the times reports this morning that the treasury has

instructed several departments to find more than £1 billion in savings — that includes the departments for education and health. one government source told the paper: "we're being asked "to scrape the bone 7 it is properly grim." in another paper, a story not entirely unconnected. the guardian reports on the false accounting at the home office. figures from the institute for fiscal studies suggest the budget they set for asylum, border control, visa and passport spending was £110 million — and what they actually spent was £2.6 billion a year. the paper says that is down to a "bad habit of submitting "initial budgets 7 that departments know to be insufficient." labour is using this to argue things are much worse under the bonnet than we were told. but how much of itjustine can be explained by this constant pressure to find savings? you work in the treasury. when i saw these next to each other

today... are departments underestimating what they spend, because that is so much easier than cutting or trying to find savings? and how chronic do you think that problem is? the final debate held in parliament before i stood down was on treasury reform. i think the treasury needs reform. i am a qualified accountant and i remember telling the treasury i felt we needed a lot more qualified finance people managing public spending. today's story by the iss is basically a tacit agreement between the home office and the treasury. every year the home office will put in a low budget and every year the treasury will happen to find money from its reserves and contingency fund. the problem is that that contingency fund doesn't exist now. it has been spent, and so you are left with an overspend by the home office. in the end, it is the treasury's job to ensure the figures are right,

and if the home office is persistently putting in the wrong budget, then speaking as a finance person, i would be expected to query that and get it right. in the end, i think this comes down to uk finance plc, if you like, group finance at the centre, upping its game and asking tough questions about if it really is fit for purpose in today's britain. it should give confidence that the labour government is lifting up the hood and looking at what is there, but on the other hand, if it repeatedly happens, and it clearly has not only in the home department, then you have to question if that downward pressure is working and if the treasury needs to begin putting people in these departments to go through these numbers. i think it is two things. it is that, it is about the time frame, if you are in the treasury and you are only looking at one year or three years, it is very difficult to

make the financial case if you are in education, for example, for a longer term plan. economic growth and savings for five or six or seven or eight years. how the treasury does the figures and the timeframe that it looks over. they are going to need a long—term budgeting approach in britain, one which allows us to do longer—term investments and off track that costs that are public sector money. getting lives on track is about a generational investment, so it needs to have a much longer term perspective, and i think thatis term perspective, and i think that is the major change we need to have the department making these cases. it is hard for the treasury to do that successfully. i for the treasury to do that successfully.— for the treasury to do that successfully. i went away and looked at _ successfully. i went away and looked at federal _ successfully. i went away and looked at federal spending i successfully. i went away and looked at federal spending in | looked at federal spending in the united states and they have been spending on average of 0.5% more than they raise in taxes since 1966. $35 trillion

of debt. forbes recently said that if it continues to overspend at this rate, at some point america will face bankruptcy. it isn't unique to the united kingdom. ida. bankruptcy. it isn't unique to the united kingdom. no, not at all. i the united kingdom. no, not at all- i mean. _ the united kingdom. no, not at all. i mean, this _ the united kingdom. no, not at all. i mean, this is _ the united kingdom. no, not at all. i mean, this is exactly, - all. i mean, this is exactly, again, talking about something people don't mention in the united states, it is one of those secrets right there in front of you. the borrowing and the debt in america, and what they do, and people alike: ok, i still have my lights and i think it has gotten so massive... i am a child of the 19805, massive... i am a child of the 1980s, and i remember robert reagan talking about it. and here we are, a0 or 50 years later, and it is still happening. i think that there is all of this... it has become too big of a problem to even wrap your head around, so i don't think that it moves and fetes. i

don't think that it moves and fetes. ., ., , ., fetes. i wonder if it was a problem _ fetes. i wonder if it was a problem here _ fetes. i wonder if it was a problem here in - fetes. i wonder if it was a problem here in the - fetes. i wonder if it was a problem here in the uk. | fetes. i wonder if it was a l problem here in the uk. -- fetes. i wonder if it was a i problem here in the uk. -- i problem here in the uk. —— i don't think that it moves boots. because of liz truss's government, i think governments now are more circumspect about what they spend and a more careful about the budget in particular. on the side, maybe not so much in america. again, when you _ not so much in america. again, when you think _ not so much in america. again, when you think about _ not so much in america. again, when you think about the - not so much in america. again, | when you think about the issues being discussed in 202a, and i haven't seen the cnn interview with kamala harris, i don't know if they will say: let's talk about the federal debt. how do you bring it down? that isn't a question coming out of these. we are going to cut spending live sets everyone got the loans to run businesses in america a few years ago, those are saved a lot of people and essentially save the economy, but in the end, there are always consequences. my mum told me: if you borrow you still have to pay. it might not

be now, but at some point you always have to pay up. it is the interest _ always have to pay up. it is the interest on _ always have to pay up. it is the interest on the - always have to pay up. it is the interest on the debt. the interest on the debt payments that is so serious for some of these countries. the black hole as kia star matt holders has to be filled at somehow, and the prime minister has already said the budget will be difficult. in berlin he refused to rule out raising fuel duty. today, the daily mail and the telegraph... there is a split view on this. some say freezing taxes on petrol and diesel while increasing taxes on work is very bad policy, especially since the rac claimed today any savings are being by retailers and not being passed on to drivers. others say that we will pay higher fuel prices to go to work and that in that sense it would be a stealth tax on working... not talking about at the election. how do you see it? ~ 4' the election. how do you see it? ~ ~ .,. it? well, i think the fact the rac, it? well, i think the fact the rac. one — it? well, i think the fact the rac. one of— it? well, i think the fact the rac, one of the _ it? well, i think the fact the rac, one of the major- it? well, | think the fact the - rac, one of the major motoring organisations, has basically said that this 5p cut shouldn't

go ahead. i think if you are sat in the treasury, and i have been that in the treasury and i have looked at the fuel duties, then that carveout from the rac probably will make that something to look at. and somehow labour has to balance the books. it has slightly landed in this black: the british public. it wasn't something debated, so it will have to fill this, and i think it will have to take up some very difficult decisions. this may be one of those. it simply has the bullet off. i may be one of those. it simply has the bullet off.— has the bullet off. i will put up a graph. i will— has the bullet off. i will put up a graph. i will show - has the bullet off. i will put up a graph. i will show you| up a graph. i will show you because of the freeze on fuel duty, it hasn't gone up because much as the cost is going on a train or bus. underfor much as the cost is going on a train or bus. under for freeze on fuel duty is a hand to wealthier people and hits other people more. wealthier people and hits other people more-— people more. indeed. iwas on the treasury — people more. indeed. iwas on the treasury team _ people more. indeed. iwas on the treasury team and - people more. indeed. iwas on the treasury team and we - people more. indeed. iwas onj the treasury team and we took the treasury team and we took the decision to freeze fuel

duty all those years ago. it was never intended to be a long—term freeze in the way we have seen. if you'd asked us if we wanted a decade—long freeze on fuel duty, it would have been a very different decision than the one that we were actually taking, which was to say: just after the banking crisis, difficult decisions on public finances, what can we do? to help motorists with the cost of living but also hauliers, the economy, and supporting that. this was never meant to be a long—term strategic budget change. it was a short term aid for the economy and to help household finances. ,, ., , ., finances. shall i blow your mind? the difference - finances. shall i blow your mind? the difference in i finances. shall i blow your l mind? the difference in fuel duty between the usa and the uk... in this country a gallon, had to work this out so forgive me and my maths is wrong, we pay in litres rather than gallons... in fuel duty on a gallons... in fuel duty on a gallon of fuel is £1 90 per

gallon. the federal excise on fuel in america is 18 cents. but another 30 on the state and local. one gallon. i mean, that blows my mind. and if you raise gas prices in the usa that is another thing that she won't talk about on cnn tonight. gas prices to pay for the government debt, you would lose the election. government debt, you would lose the election-— the election. yes. i mean, gas rices the election. yes. i mean, gas prices are _ the election. yes. i mean, gas prices are high _ the election. yes. i mean, gas prices are high up _ the election. yes. i mean, gas prices are high up here, - prices are high up here, relatively.— relatively. give over. laughter _ laughter whenever you tell the uk and the europeans that gas prices are high in america, it is like hello, come over here. you are right. this is a really interesting point. the populist economic message of donald trump is really pounding, and that isn't grocery and food bills are higher, gas is higher, it is more expensive to live, and that is going to be a tough thing for kamala harris tough thing for kamala harris to shake, because kamala harris

is the incumbent administration, and as you know, and as anybody who has beenin know, and as anybody who has been in a political campaigners, it is always easier to criticise from the outside antenna prices are too high and the rent is too high in the gas is too high, and i'm going to elaborate. that is a campaign message. we can put all of the macroeconomics and presidents can't do that, that in its moment, it is more expensive to live in the united states. so, yes, i understand that it states. so, yes, i understand thatitis states. so, yes, i understand that it is cheaper here, but in the context of the usa, i live in massachusetts and i will reveal that i paid $a per gallon today. that is pretty high for massachusetts. i am -la in: high for massachusetts. i am playing in — high for massachusetts. i am playing in the _ high for massachusetts. i am playing in the smallest - high for massachusetts. i am playing in the smallest violin, here. no, it is expensive. i was in america recently. the cost of living for a lot of

people and particularly in a latina community, right... this is what is pushing the numbers. let's talk about another tax they could levy, tobacco. sir keir starmer has confirmed today the reports that the government is planning to ban smoking in some outdoor spaces. he said smoking leads to huge burden on the taxpayer with the cost of the national health service, estimated to be around £2.6 million per year. they are considering... effectively banning people under the age of 1a from buying a cigarette. the proposals and seen by the sun newspaper suggest a smoking ban in pub and restaurant gardens, terraces, out sports stadiums, children's park, near hospitals, and universities. how do you feel about this? well, i would how do you feel about this? well, iwould be how do you feel about this? well, i would be very surprised if any of that happens. i think keir starmer has a lot of political battles to fight, i'm

not sure if i was him that i would be adding this to it. i think that the reality is the last conservative government set a smoke—free generation by 2030... you know, that was a huge ambition. delivering it is much more around what you can do on smoking cessation, but you can do on vapes, and a whole range of other things. rather than policing the pavement. i rather than policing the pavement-— rather than policing the avement. ., _, . rather than policing the avement. ., . ., pavement. i am unconvinced of this extra _ pavement. i am unconvinced of this extra step _ pavement. i am unconvinced of this extra step in _ pavement. i am unconvinced of this extra step in relation - pavement. i am unconvinced of this extra step in relation to . this extra step in relation to smoking in public is really a smart way or a proportionate way to pursue that agenda. i hope that we can have a meaningful debate that is evidence—based about the right package to be able to deliver progress. i think everybody agrees we want to reduce smoking. the question is how we do that sensibly. i really hope we can have a measured debate about this over the coming weeks that is perhaps more evidence driven and unless

driven by accusations of nanny states. �* ., , , _ states. are health experts say that they were _ states. are health experts say that they were told _ states. are health experts say that they were told this - states. are health experts say that they were told this would j that they were told this would be detrimental to the leisure industry. that pubs were to close when they introduce a ban on smoking inside in 2007. the point i made in the first hour of the programme is that their clientele could go outside and smoke a cigarette. they can still go to the pub, theyjust haven't to come outside to smoke. if you ban it altogether or they may not come at all. i have to confess, i am with justine on this a bit, when i go to the part i find the more interesting people outside having a cigarette. the people i want to want to talk to. they just seem more fun. so i'm a bit late to deny people that opportunity. you know, we do have a lot in common across the pond, and that is the same here. when they banned smoking in boston in the 1990s, everybody was like: nobody will drink any more. it is quite lovely inside. it is nice to

have conversations without smoke wafting around. but you are right. if you want to talk to the cool kids, go outside. right? and the interesting people. but the other problem here in america with the legalisation of marijuana is that there are a lot of people smoking outside, they are smoking outside, they are smoking marijuana because there is a sort of, at least in massachusetts where it was legalised a couple of years ago, it is almost socially... nobody is policing you it is the same with cigarettes. something gets lost. i understand it. perhaps it is of the niger theory. if you say: —— it is of the nudge theory. things become unacceptable so people don't do it. mar; things become unacceptable so people don't do it.— people don't do it. may be. we have all claimed... _

people don't do it. may be. we have all claimed... i— people don't do it. may be. we have all claimed... i don't - have all claimed... i don't know about you, but we have beenin know about you, but we have been in pubs where people are smoking outside and it is fine. i don't know if it is something you want to go further if... especially in ready 2a. all of the health data shows smoking is bad. let's not... my children did not grow up... smoking culture is gone. when you look at 20 roles, they are not smoking. we you look at 20 roles, they are not smoking-— not smoking. we have to give --eole a not smoking. we have to give people a smoking _ not smoking. we have to give people a smoking break - not smoking. we have to give people a smoking break and l not smoking. we have to give | people a smoking break and go to the adverts. we will come backin to the adverts. we will come back in time for the panel. we will be right back. so with this.

it is now time for the panel. we are going to talk about the reworking of la bamba, the song

or the bio pic? the reworking of la bamba, the song or the bio pic?— or the bio pic? the richie valance — or the bio pic? the richie valance film. _ or the bio pic? the richie valance film. we - or the bio pic? the richie valance film. we wrote i or the bio pic? the richie - valance film. we wrote about it in a latina _ valance film. we wrote about it in a latina newsletter and used the uk — in a latina newsletter and used the uk poster from 1987. there was a _ the uk poster from 1987. there was a report by variety... laughter variety and other hollywood magazines that there was going to be _ magazines that there was going to be a — magazines that there was going to be a remake. it is part of the— to be a remake. it is part of the national film registry. i am all— the national film registry. i am all for recycling perfection, i don't think that we need _ perfection, i don't think that we need a remake of this movie. that— we need a remake of this movie. that is— we need a remake of this movie. that is all— we need a remake of this movie. that is all i— we need a remake of this movie. that is all i will say. it was announced this week. is going to -la announced this week. is going to play ritchie _ announced this week. is going to play ritchie valance? - announced this week. is going to play ritchie valance? i - to play ritchie valance? i don't know. in my world, people are like: — don't know. in my world, people are like: why are we doing this? _ are like: why are we doing this? why can't we just watch _ this? why can't we just watch... why can we not watch the 87 —

watch... why can we not watch the 87 version? hollywood, i don't — the 87 version? hollywood, i don't know, they like to make money, — don't know, they like to make money, i_ don't know, they like to make money, i guess. don't know, they like to make money, iguess. i don't know, they like to make money, i guess. i don't know. don't — money, i guess. i don't know. don't miss— money, i guess. i don't know. don't miss out a work of art. are — don't miss out a work of art. are you _ don't miss out a work of art. are you a _ don't miss out a work of art. are you a fan?— are you a fan? more of an abbott fan. _ are you a fan? more of an abbott fan. me _ are you a fan? more of an abbott fan. me to. - are you a fan? more of an abbott fan. me to. what l are you a fan? more of an - abbott fan. me to. what about carbonara _ abbott fan. me to. what about carbonara with _ abbott fan. me to. what about carbonara with a _ abbott fan. me to. what about carbonara with a can? - abbott fan. me to. what about carbonara with a can? are - abbott fan. me to. what about carbonara with a can? are you | abbott fan. me to. what about | carbonara with a can? are you a fan of that? i carbonara with a can? are you a fan of that?— fan of that? i think that this is a massive _ fan of that? i think that this is a massive step _ fan of that? i think that this is a massive step forward i fan of that? i think that this is a massive step forward if| is a massive step forward if you are a student. philistine. this would — you are a student. philistine. this would have _ you are a student. philistine. this would have been - you are a student. philistine. this would have been a - you are a student. philistine. i this would have been a massive step forward for me. i would have cheered with joy at the news. i was so bad at cooking as a student that it literally was a spectator sport in our student accommodation. cream in a can? apparently _ student accommodation. cream in a can? apparently it _ student accommodation. cream in a can? apparently it has _ a can? apparently it has got something that makes it creamy. i can fail to confirm if it is cream. �* i can fail to confirm if it is cream-— i can fail to confirm if it is cream. ., ., cream. an advance on spaghetti hoo s, cream. an advance on spaghetti

hoops. maybe- _ cream. an advance on spaghetti hoops. maybe- i— cream. an advance on spaghetti hoops, maybe. i don't— cream. an advance on spaghetti hoops, maybe. i don't know. i hoops, maybe. i don't know. would you go for that? irlat hoops, maybe. i don't know. would you go for that? not even close. laughter my italian mother... laughter m italian mother... y laughter m italian mother... g ., ., my italian mother... my italian mother from _ my italian mother... my italian mother from the _ my italian mother... my italian mother from the bronx - mother from the bronx would punish me for a lifetime. justine. _ punish me for a lifetime. justine, don't get ma'am! we are out of— justine, don't get ma'am! we are out of time. _ justine, don't get ma'am! - are out of time. lovely to have your company. thank you very much. we will be back tomorrow. hello from the bbc sport centre. the draw for this seasons champions league has been made at a glittering ceremony in monaco. five british teams in the draw, lets just take you through a few of the key fixtures. premier league champions manchester city will have to travel to paris st germain and juventus amongst others. there'll be a reunion of xabi alonso with his former club liverpool. alonso's bayer leverkusen will travel to anfield. liverpool will also host real madrid. arsenal take on psg at home amongst theirfixtures.

they'll also have to travel to milan to take on inter. villa, back amongst europes elite for the first time in more than a0 years are rewarded with home ties against bayern munich and juventus amongst others. they'll also have to face scottish champions celtic. that match will be at villa park. celtic also have home games against the likes of leipzig and club bruges. the draw in full over on the bbc sport website. dates for those fixtures will be released in the coming days. elsewhere in european action, it's a busy night of europa league and europa conference league playoffs. hearts are out after they were beaten 1—0, 2—0 on aggregate to the czech side victoria pilzen. they'll now drop to the conference league after lukas cerv�*s second half strike. in the conference league, history for the new saints as they become the first welsh premier league side to reach the group stages of a major european competition. they were held to a goalless draw by panevezys of lithuania in the second—leg of the play—offs to secure

a 3—0 aggregate win. northern ireland's larne are hoping tojoin them despite going down to ten men at home to lincoln red imps after chris gallagher was sent off. andy ryan completed his hat—trick in the 83rd minute to give them a a—3 aggregate lead against the side from gibraltar. kilmarnock are out, beaten by copenhagen. chelsea though are through, seeing off servette 3—2 on aggregate. in cricket, englandsjoe root has equalled alastair cooke's in cricket, england'sjoe root has equalled alastair cooke's record of 33 test centuries. it puts the batsman joint—top of the all time record for test 100s for england. our sports correspondentjoe wilson was watching at lords. test cricket isn't easy. ask the stand—in captain and struggling batter. he fell for one and, having opted to bowl first, sri lanka were on top at

lord's. molly pope is leading england only for this series, but in theirteam, england only for this series, but in their team, england have a man who captained them for 6a test matches. still going strong. once more, joe root. once in the middle, he waits for the ball. and makes the most of it. it has been the same for a dozen years the world over. in england's new attacking year, joe root�*s and going success is a triumph of a balanced mind. ii going success is a triumph of a balanced mind.— balanced mind. if you can play with that freedom _ with that freedom and mentality, you will first off always give yourself a better chance. being confident in yourself and your own game and making a good decision under pressure. making a good decision under ressure. ., , , , , pressure. there was pressure. en . land pressure. there was pressure. england were _ pressure. there was pressure. england were six _ pressure. there was pressure. england were six wickets i pressure. there was pressure. | england were six wickets round down when joe england were six wickets round down whenjoe root england were six wickets round down when joe root took the 33rd — down when joe root took the 33rd wicket of his test career, the crowd _ 33rd wicket of his test career, the crowd equalling alistair kirk — the crowd equalling alistair kirk. joe root carried england's hopes methodically until— england's hopes methodically until he —

england's hopes methodically until he tried and failed. one error is — until he tried and failed. one error is forgivable when you make — error is forgivable when you make 143. who was that swiping sixes? _ make 143. who was that swiping sixes? atkinson, stokes, hundred _ sixes? atkinson, stokes, hundred and 53—7. it was another— hundred and 53—7. it was anotherjoe root today. at the paralympics in paris, great britain have their first medals of the games. the first gold came from swimmer poppy maskill in the s1a 100m butterfly. she actually broke the world record for that victory. that was swiftly followed by another gold in the pool. it went to tully kearney, winning the s5 200m freestyle. not such positive news though for one of britain's big hopes going into paris, kadeena cox. she crashed out of her ca—5 500 metre time trial final. the four—time paralympic champion had qualified second fastest for the final, but she had an unsteadt start, but she had an unsteady start,

and hit the velodrome track on the first corner. in new york, britain's katie boulter described her second round match as "horrendous", as she was beaten by spain'sjessica bouzas maneiro. boulter who was seeded 31 for the tournament, was defeated in straight sets by the world number 7a. boulter then, still waiting to reach the second week of a grand slam in her career. earlier world number1 iga swiatek went through safely to the next round. as is mens number1 jannik sinner. britains jack draper will be following him into the third round, in the last few moments he's beaten argentinian facundo diaz acosta in straight sets. more on all those stories over on the website, but that is all the sport for now. hello there. whilst it was a bit cooler and fresher today, most of us got to enjoy some warm sunshine. we have seen more cloud,

though, earlier on pushing eastwards across scotland. that's been bringing some showers as well. those showers are going to retreat up towards the far north of the country, and the winds will drop. and the clearer skies will develop in most areas. a few mist and fog patches out to the west, and it's going to be quite chilly overnight. temperatures in scotland, northern ireland could be as low as a—5 degrees, and 7—8 across england and wales. any mist and fog in the west will soon lift, and it's going to warm up in the sunshine. remaining showers in northern scotland move away. the winds will be light. cloud will develop over land, but around the coasts, with the sea breeze, it should be quite sunny. and a dry day, temperatures similar to those of today. perhaps a degree or so higher. 18 perhaps in scotland, northern ireland, 2a in the south—east of england. high pressure is with us at the end of the week, which is why it's so quiet, but it's not going to last long. it's moving away even into saturday, allowing that weather front to move up from the south. and that's going to bring with it more cloud northwards across england and wales, and there could be one or two showers as well, although many places

will be dry. we've got more sunshine for the far north of england, scotland and northern ireland. the winds will be a bit stronger on saturday. an easterly breeze for england and wales, so some of these north sea coasts will be a bit cooler, but it should be a warmer day with more sunshine for scotland and northern ireland. temperatures in glasgow and london much the same. we will have more cloud in london until late on in the day. that cloud moves northwards overnight. the high pressure continues to pull away towards scandinavia. this weather front eventually arriving in the south—west, but ahead of that, we're going to draw up something a little bit warmer, more humid, but the potential of some storms. and we're drawing that cloud northwards into scotland and northern ireland. some sunshine for england and wales. we'll build up the cloud that will trigger a few thunderstorms during the latter part of the afternoon. quite warm and humid air coming up from the near continent, so temperatures could reach 26—27 degrees. may not be quite as warm on sunday in scotland and northern ireland with more cloud. so, over the weekend, much of the weekend will be

dry, but as we head into the beginning of next week, pressure will be lower. we're going to find some wet weather on monday followed by quite a few showers on tuesday.

at ten, a mother pays tribute to her "beautiful girl", holly newton, as a 17—year—old boy is found guilty of her murder. cctv images show the killer approaching the 15—year—old at a bus stop in northumberland in january last year. in america, kamala harris gives her first tv interview since becoming the democratic nominee for the white house. this is an important test for kamala harris, who has not given an

interview since she took over from joe biden as the candidate. there's to be a pause in the fighting in gaza to allow the vaccination of thousands of children against polio. growing concerns over the way evidence was presented in the trials of the nurse lucy letby, found guilty of killing seven babies. mixed fortunes for the british team on day one of the paralympics, with golds in pool but a crash on the track for kadeena cox. and root the master as he equals the england test record for centuries in a superb innings against sri lanka. and stay with us here on bbc news for continuing coverage and analysis from our team of correspondents in the uk and around the world.