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belarus. just like you were holding the book in your hands, you were picking up one piece after another, sniffing at the words on your skin. right now are the most creative, the most valuable and useful uvags - these books, the books have the thoughts of the minulaga, the reports and expressive chatter of people, everything that chalavets created, was stocked up on old nig,

bytstsam, read the chalavek experience of stagodzi, the very near past, the precious past for our daily life. belarus 24. information and analytical project current microphone on air on the belarusian radio tv channel belarus24. with you is the presenter andrei sych, as well as our guest, deputy of the house of representatives, head of the belarusian party belarus, doctor of philosophy, oleg romanov. hello, hello, andrey, we are discussing important topics that really concern each of us, taking into account

the information agenda that... literally covers belarusians all over the world public. oleg alexandrovich, i’ll read out a short excerpt and ask you to comment on it. georgia has only two paths, either it will turn into... a pathetic wretched belarus or it will become a free and fighting ukraine, what do you think about this, again, these quotes come in the context of today's protests against the law on foreign agents in georgia, which has already been adopted , you know, when i hear such ideas, such words, i always remember oruel, 1984, and there is a ministry of truth, a ministry of lies, and the like, so, here everything is with exactly the opposite, for georgia, its development and, in general, its preservation in history, is reintegration in the post-soviet

space with countries that are friendly to georgia in historical, civilizational and economic relations, and here i would like to recall the history of why georgia even happened, it took place. because at one time the right decision was made at the beginning of the 19th century to become part of the russian empire, and this was well reflected in poetic form by lermontov, in his poems ciri, such and such a king in such and such a year, presented russia has its own people, and god's grace descended on georgia, since then it has blossomed in the shade of its gardens, without fearing enemies beyond friendly bayonets, and this saved georgia then

two centuries ago from... receiving about 5% from the union budget , that is, the contribution to georgia was more than three times less than its opportunities that it received as part of the soviet union. of course, this imbalance was eliminated due to the shortfall of russia, the bssr and the ukrainian ussr; they were donors of the soviet union. and i remembered these historical ones. facts in order to show that the well-being of georgia has always been determined by its friendly relations with the countries of the soviet space, well then the soviet union, the russian empire, the soviet union, now the countries of the post-soviet space, i think that

it is on this path that a successful, confident development of georgia. one could say what - what, that georgia has prospects in the european union, but i want to ask a rhetorical question: which countries? former ussr, parts of the former ussr, achieved success on the european path, which of them showed economic results, political development, cultural, demographic, and so on. we see that everyone who followed this so -called european path turned out to be historical bankrupts. ukraine, the baltic states, moldova, so it’s reasonable to assume that georgia will have some other path. other results do not come, i think that just by abandoning this pseudo historical choice, the european path,

georgia can find itself, its future, but these value judgments, pathetic belarus, then our country, according to many world ratings, which our president spoke about during his message to the belarusian people and parliament at the all-belarusian people's assembly, is the leader in world development in terms of security, medical services, child survival rates, low levels of infant and maternal mortality, food availability, the level of safety that we have in our country, which allows our citizens to feel completely confident feel on the roads in the streets in... in their homes and so on, so this is not a miserable belarus, but a prosperous belarus, and if georgia would like to be prosperous, then it needs to follow the path that leads to this result. oleg alexandrovich, i don’t know whether you agree with me or not, in my

opinion, this is not even the evolution of such a political process in georgia, but an open revolution, because we have repeatedly said that in this country there really is an integration of non-profit public associations that are supervised. indeed, all kinds of western intelligence services and other analytical, let 's say, structures, it is simply colossal, a lot of representatives of the state apparatus are really integrated into these... structures, so today, when the law has already been adopted, you understand how difficult it was to form this majority, for example in parliament, which will adopt this law, generally unite around this idea that for georgia this is an important and necessary process, but this , to put it mildly, is truly a revolutionary process, especially when you remember that that, for example, the president of this country is a french citizen, most deputies also have different ones. from other countries, in your opinion, what is this connected with, what

preconditions occurred, that is, some nationally oriented part of the political establishment of georgia is still thinking about the future of this country? andrey, i really support you in the fact that this is a deep and, well, the word radical, i don’t know how appropriate, but a truly deep, qualitative change in the path of political development of georgia, and here it is really possible to use the word revolution, but i would probably, you know, even use the concept... georgia from its historical past, from its roots, from national, religious identity, the severance of the ties that were historically formed between georgia and russia, now this counter-revolution, that is, an attempt to return not to the origins, we are not

talking about this, it’s still due to... being in such a sphere of such prose, let’s say, life, i think that many of those who are starting this process process of adoption of the law on foreign agents, process some kind of liberation of the country from the dominance of ngos, has economic reasons related to the need to interact with russia, other countries in the post-soviet space, there are... other reasons, but the fact

that, along with other things, there is a sense of national pride, a feeling , a sense of the future, this is the understanding that this future can and should be defended and fought for, i think that this also exists, so now in this first approximation, this is far from exhausting all the complexity of that struggle, but in a first approximation it is possible interpret here this is a clash between supporters and... their children with georgia, with its present and

future, having, well, for example, foreign passports. oleg aleksandrovich, i’m interested in your opinion, regarding those formulations that are heard on the streets of georgia, regarding the fact that this law on foreign agents is a russian law, it is generally the hand of the kremlin that does all this, but for some reason no one raises the question of the fact that a similar law, for example, headlights, has been in force in the usa, if i’m not mistaken, since the 19th century. you open, there is a constant discussion about what is happening in europe we need a law on foreign agents, but for some reason neither in the usa nor in europe this law is called russian, that is, they adhere to their national interests, they understand that hybrid forms of attack by external influence on your national policy are almost the main ones today , how do they manage to do this in this way, of course you already said that the truth is... lies, but are there really so many stupid people

who cannot compare the facts, or are they so skillfully introducing such narratives, or does everyone understand everything perfectly , but just knowing that this is in their own interests, for example, because well, we openly understand that those same foreign agents who, to put it mildly, understand political processes, come out to protest, most of them, because they are their direct participants, and form this narrative about russia... what do people count on when they tell outright lies? well , here we can probably recall the discovery in quotation marks of goebbels, the head of the ideological system of the third reich, who said that a lie was spoken a thousand times becomes true, or a lie that a thousand times begins to be believed, modernity shows that this is really so, for me, for example, as

a social scientist, a person who has been dealing with the issue of personality formation, personality development for quite a long time. i was interested in the monstrous experiment that was carried out in ukraine, that in just a few years, well, in a decade, they were able to form a generation of people who sincerely believe in the nonsense that flows from screens, televisions, and internet sources ukrainian, people with a blue eye believe that the ancient ukrainians dug up the black sea, that christopher columbus was... plato and his disciples were also ancient ukrainians and the like. it turns out that life shows these cruel experiments that are carried out in individual countries, that working with people’s consciousness is very fast, that consciousness

is very plastic, and if using correctly selected methods, what is the goal, we are not talking now, then that the goal is monstrous it's clear. but if the methods are correctly selected to achieve this goal, then it turns out that there is no need to wait centuries for generations to change and the like, you can even start instilling in people of mature age, which has formed, seemingly more or less adequate to the information environment, the most complete heresy, and this will be accepted, i think that this method, it is implemented to a significant extent in georgia, speaking in particular, the following is obvious to any person, but a little immersion in

the question shows us the following: agents, this second law, it was practically copied letter for letter from the corresponding us law, which effectively has the abbreviation fara, and which was adopted in america in 1938, and what happens is that when americans defend their interests, this is democracy - this is correct, when other countries follow the same path, then through the mouth high-ranking figures of the american establishment call this whatever they want, this is a violation of human rights, this is not enough democracy of the country, which may call into question the european future of georgia and so on, but

what worries us now is that here we see such a good an example of double triple standards, what we do at home is one story, what we allow or not... but then, under pressure from the opposition, it was withdrawn, it had not even had time to go through the first reading, and so it was just written according to the tracing paper he appeared from the american law. right now a provocative thought arose, oleg aleksandrovich, in 2020, part of at least my friends, quite respected

people in georgia, doctors of sciences, gathered in front of the belarusian embassy for a rally in support of the belarusian... which directly resisted this very hybrid form of attack, are there any thoughts to somehow support, maybe send some kind of letter with words of support to the georgian parliament, or carry out some kind of action in support of the georgian government directly and their initiative, or this could on the contrary, harm. thank you andrey for the proposal, i’m probably not ready to unequivocally either support or reject this proposal right now, it needs to be worked out. because this is a serious, quite serious political action in the international arena and it must be worked out in order to really read not only the short-term, but the medium-term afterwards. this action, so thank you for the proposal, to what extent we can implement it, i ’ll think about it, at the moment, again,

an interesting topic closest to belarus is the polish border, where prime minister tusk came just the other day and said that they will stand out new resources directly for the expansion of fortifications on the border, which is interesting, we discuss quite often, but in my opinion the same tusk repeatedly. stated that a huge amount of money was stolen when duda morawiecki’s wall was being built, now tusk seems to be entering into these same projects, well, it seems that for the same purpose, only now duda morawiecki will accuse tusk of that now he has stolen money there, in your opinion, that this is some kind of media project, corrupt interest, or some kind of political interests, what is hidden in this? well, you know, andrey, i think that here... as always happens in such complex processes, here there is a resonant amplification, a resonant interaction of different components, the fact that there is

a corruption component here, i don’t doubt it for a single minute, it is clear that many involved in this hope to get their fat piece from the implementation of the construction of the wall, from the implementation of this project, and i wouldn’t underestimate this component; maybe it’s even one of

the leading ones. more and more withdraws into himself, withdraws, separates from others, external reasons for this, well, or pretexts, jze called them borel, yes, we are the garden of eden, and the rest is the jungle, so they want to protect this garden of eden, but there are other reasons, they consist in the fact that europe is increasingly showing... its russian russian essence is actively militarizing

this kind of hostile attitude towards the outside world is becoming more and more a pronounced dominant of the european european worldview of european thinking - the political class, i’m probably not saying that the people there think so, but the fact that in the political class this is for me obviously, and here again i would like to recall the recent... this is very important to understand how the thinking, the consciousness of people, societies evolves, under what sauce, say, under what ideological cover they succumbed, for example, to the fall of the soviet union, or the need to unite germany, that they built walls, built borders, there is the berlin berlin wall, which was a symbol of a divided nation and

a symbol of totalitarianism in general, we see how it is being implemented, well, the third thing that can and should be said is what our president said during his message that poland is becoming more aggressive, it is becoming more militarized, more aggressive, more and more these aggressive plans, expansionist plans are being nurtured, and this is served by... the formation of a strike force of troops on the borders with

belarus as a whole, the formation of an army that is offensive in nature, well, equipment. preparations that are offensive in nature, and i think that the construction of this wall, in principle, is also included in this logic, the logic of militarization and the future, future aggression, prospects for future aggression. i recently came across an interesting thesis on the internet that at the moment in the territory of the modern european union, the ideology that arises can be described as liberal. nazism, a very interesting thesis, for comprehension, i’m still thinking about it, this is true, including so that our listeners can think about this issue, i’m interested in your opinion regarding the increasing popularity of far-right parties, far-right movements in the european union, again in context closure within their own interests and so on, just the other day i came across news

that they are going to form in the future european parliament - such a party or coalition of the right is quite strong due to the fact that , again, the popularity of this ideology, these movements in individual countries, in your opinion, not even for europe, does this pose any danger for us, or , on the contrary, does it indicate that these government officials will think more about their national interests, and accordingly, this is, again, a more

predictable policy that allows... an opinion, one’s vision of the world, this opinion and vision of the world to be freely expressed, to believe in what one believes to believe, the restrictions that all this had were, well, considered as legal restrictions , then you have the right to independently form your own , you can believe in anything, think anything, say anything, but do not break the law. this is the idea, it prevailed, many people liked it, it seemed like a good solution to that tangle contradictions in which europe was entangled in the 15th-17th centuries, i’m talking, for example, about religious wars in europe, about many other problems, but in what direction liberalism was moving, this was very well shown by the soviet, russian philosopher alexander sergeevich ponarin, he was one time is very popular in

such a conservative in a conservative. intellectual community of russia, belarus , and he showed that liberalism was moving from personal freedom to freedom of instinct, freedom of instinct, that is , the freedom of human expression began to imperceptibly be replaced, freedom of emancipation of his instinct, i do what i want with mine, with my passions, with my lusts, everything, the further, the more it began to be recognized as normal, legal, well, the recent eurovision, i clearly showed this enough, and now we are in at this point we remember dostoevsky, his such aphoristic phrase: to unbridle in order to bridle, that is, first we corrupt, first we liberate everything, and there are no restrictions, and then, when chaos reigns, when in this state it is not guaranteed nothing, no rights, not even human life,

then people themselves will say: take away this freedom from us, rule on... such outright chaos and lawlessness is impossible, i think that now... uh , just a combination of nazism and liberalism, in in particular, is ensured, determined by the process that i mentioned above, this is not the only reason, but you can probably think about this too, as for the increasing role of the right-wing forces, to some extent this is connected with what i said above, that is, when people they lose in every possible way the foundations of their lives when it is impossible to believe in anything, not in god, not in

the devil, not in their homeland, not in anything. people can’t do that, a person still must have the foundations of his life, albeit implicit, even if he cannot always say them to himself, but instinctively, intuitively, he must feel that there is something important for which... he can to live, and then, when society loses these foundations, a search begins, and not always adequate, one of these, the results of such a search can be exaggeration of the idea of ​​a nation, everything is very subtle here, the idea of ​​a nation in itself is good and correct, the idea of ​​a homeland, the idea of ​​patriotism, this is a great idea that has inspired people for centuries and millennia, another thing is that it can take... ugly forms like dochland uberallis, germany first of all, or as it is now ukraine according to nadusim, yes, and ukraine our mother and father bandera, when little children sing this,

here we see the transformed ugly forms of this search for foundations, the search for those ideals, absolutes that can and should

a person to rely on, but on his own... jokes are thrown around that today not everyone can speak openly, because

those who do not agree with the state line have very great prospects of ending up on the front line, in your opinion, how will they develop events, right now, and whether the situation around kharkov is some kind of trigger for the start of negotiations and for the political crisis in ukraine. you know, andrey, i think that for the political crisis in general, the cause of the political crisis in general is the situation at the front, not only around kharkov, the fact that kharkov is now strengthening these trends is undeniable, because now everyone sees the successes of the russian army and the inability of the ukrainian army to cope with the wave

that... preparations are thrown into the inferno, where they usually die or become prisoners , while others for some reason avoid all this, there are many such processes, plus corruption, plus

open, outright indifference to the needs of the common man, all this stimulates crisis processes in ukraine, and the successes of the russian army, which i am sure will continue, they will further trigger this crisis, as for negotiations, i, for example, do not think that russia will agree to conduct them now, well, on any

terms, not on any terms at all. the heroes of this program chose to live outside the city, why do you need it, yes, and where does the money come from, the two favorite questions. i would really like to see what a school looks like when it is no longer a school inside. there they see more

opportunities and use them. hello, live news, lyudmila kazak is with you, watch this evening episode, we are bringing economic partnership to a qualitatively new level, the president of belarus