>> from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in silicon valley and beyond, this is bloomberg technology. ♪ caroline: i'm caroline hyde in new york. ed: i am ed ludlow in california. caroline: the s&p 500 closes in on all-time highs after a dovish fed signal but what does it mean

for the tech rally? ed: gm slashes 24% of its work force and we will talk about the tech labor market is 200 that he thousand workers at tech companies of all sizes have been let go this year. caroline: adobe is facing regulatory headwinds and why the company's ai ambitions may take longer than expected. let's focus on the rest of the market. while the macro wins in a day like today, we know with the meaning is for the federal reserve talking about rate cuts. the s&p 500 is closing in on record highs. the 10 year yield screens lower by 12 basis points. we see the key measure of the u.s. dollar index on the downside.

we are off by 0.8%. whether or not we anticipated some of the federal reserve moves on like the rest of the market. ed: i got a deal, rivian has a new customer and its at&t. this the first new customer for their electric delivery than since amazon relinquished from that exclusivity agreement in november. it's a small deal, basically a pilot were at&t will get a few of the rivian vans into their fleet. they didn't disclose financial terms or the fleet target. i didn't write a story because it didn't seem that big but the stock is up 9%. it's up almost 20% over two days. it's interesting to see the strategy going forward on the commercial side versus consumer cars. the other big mover this morning is intel which has given us details on its ai strategy.

the stock is up two point 5% and was up 5.5%. new chips have been through two redesigns in the last year already and you have details around the ai accelerator. this is the gpu/cpu hybrid that will take on h100. gaudy3 they say will be as good or better than the last two is nowhere to be seen yet and doesn't come out until 2024. the battleground is heating up now. caroline: it seems like a flurry to get as much of the innovation out as possible to steal the market share. some fighting talk that gaudy3 is the proof in the pudding. how will it be efficient with these other chips coming to market? ed: intel are saying the markets

will be so big there'll be something for everyone. they are also focusing on pcs, that is their bread and butter, the biggest pc processor maker and we are increasingly talking about the idea the processing power of laptops and phones needs to be able to handle generative ai. needs to have the computer perform in airplane mode or not. caroline: this is about the rest of the ecosystem of chips. we keep talking about h100. there is a lot of infrastructure play that needs to go into all of that this so ai comes into play. let's talk more about this. it's been an extraordinary day in terms of macro policy. can you put that onto the micro of whether technology and the ai

hype is something to buy into? >> yesterday felt like santa claus came to town. the markets like the outlook for next year and we are done with rate hikes. we will have some restrictive policy middle east no more pounding on the gas to hike rates. that sets tech up very well. i think the next 5-10 years of technology will be super computing and quantum computing and ai and we talked about nvidia and amd this year and they are the clear leaders and ships but i think what will happen next year is all of the flood gates will come in and ibm and the bigger components around ai like data processing and supercomputing, 5g for the speed to make ai work will all become tradable themes. you will get beyond the magnificent seven four ai. caroline: it's interesting how much the exuberance becomes real revenue.

nvidia prove that to some extent but we will get more into that later. ultimately, its earnings not living up to the hype in terms of how quickly they can turn it into the bottom line. how much can quantum computing finally become a revenue driver? >> what happens a little with ai is it's been around for such a long time and there was a news flash around microsoft this year and ai became the word of the year. then it started to feel like a bubble and people equated it meme stock mania and it was thrown to the side a little bit but now it's back because they are starting to show real progress. everyone who hitched the ai onto their wagon will now have to prove it in q1 and q2 possibly q4 as well. i think you will see that play out and it's super important for companies like ibm which is a company that has quantum computing and they are working

with companies like cleveland clinic that have outcomes in drug trial so quantum computing is becoming more of a reality and it exists. you need a room the size of this in many air-conditioners to run it but it's there so 5-10 years from now, the skies the limit. ed: taking a look at the defiance quantum etf qtum. all of the names you just mentioned are in there. what i find interesting is how long does this keep going? you look at performance year-to-date up almost 30%. amd says the market as being $150 billion in august will be 400 william dollars in 2027. how do you keep this going? >> i think what's interesting about this etf and some of the names i mentioned is ibm and

some of the smaller types of companies in this index are not companies we are talking about now. we're talking about microsoft google, nvidia amd and some other names. what will happen is you have a whole lot of small-cap names in there. why are we up to hundred percent? were getting the performance of the large caps but the small caps because of wreps -- because of rates and being new to the scene will probably start to rally and pick up performance. i think this will ride out as the smaller company start to generate revenues and are cushioned by google and microsoft that might return five or 10% next year. having that well-balanced mixed of traders not thinking about it will give them room to run. ed: in the context of the fed meeting, the eco-data of late, how isolated is what's happening in the ai industry for want of a better descriptor or from what is happening in the global

economy? >> with the ai industry, it's almost being pigeonholed again into some of the magnificent seven. i can pull specific themes that are straight technology focused ai data processing. we don't really talk about the macro impact and how that will play into what's going on. the government will increase ai spending by billions of dollars next year so there will be money going into ai and supercomputing an artificial intelligence. the growth of ai will increase and macro spending and things like that. you will finally talk about how ai impacts different sectors like health care. are we getting the better drug outcomes and surgical procedure outcomes and things like this? the story will change about how ai is making companies more efficient and that started with digitalization of factories but

i think that will continue to play out. caroline: maybe the rally has been ridiculous when it comes to ai. some say crypto is a little ridiculous again but it's shy of 25,000. there's been a ruling 2023. will that continue and is it all about macro? >> there is a little more room to run in crypto because i suspect that these approvals we have long awaited will probably play out. you will just have a shift of assets in some regarded new-product will have to buy more bitcoin so you will have that demand. once that comes out, these products become more institutionalized. they are easier to train and you get better spreads you don't have to worry about managing digital wallets. the efficiency of all that

starts to play out more. do i think it will double or triple? i don't know but i think there is solid runway left particularly once we get the stamp of approval, i think bitcoin will run. caroline: paul lies on that spot bitcoin etf. -- all eyes on that spot bitcoin be tf. etf. ed: 2023 was a butyl year for tech and we're joined by the creator of the layoffs coming up next. in the crypto space, think about the equity picture we coinbase up 0.9%, its highest level since april of 2022, some upgrades but some news that will -- that it will rollouts but crypto trading option and its international exchange. that seems to be the driver and some names are negative and some are positive but right now up one point 7%. this is bloomberg technology.

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(sfx: stone wheel crafting) ♪ the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf that inspired the world to invest differently. it still does. what can you do with spy? ♪

caroline: let's talk layoffs because the autonomous vehicle unit of general motors will lay off about 900 people. these layoffs are just one day after cruz dismissed nine of its top executives. the company has been trying to cut its cost and effort to revamp the company after that crucial accident in which a car dragged a pedestrian in october. ed: the layoffs are just the latest occurrence, piling onto this year's wave of layoffs in

the tech sector. in total, more than 250,000 workers at 10 companies big and small have been let go in 2023. let's bring in the job trackers creator to dig into that data. a good starting point is to ask 250,000, what does that look like relative to prior periods of economic pain? >> the number is very high even compared to last year when we first started seeing a wave of tech layoffs. 2023 is the highest number we've seen to date so 230,000 tech employees have been laid off so far this year. that's up from 165,000 and 2022. even in 2020, when we saw a wave of pandemic related layoffs, that number was only 80,000. this year has been the worst

time in the past few years. ed: what, if anything, do the companies that have done layoffs and cuts got in common? what are their reasons for doing so or their reactions to something? >> the biggest reason for these tech layoffs has been a correction of the over hiring they did during the pandemic surge. back in 2020-2021, we were in a low interest rate environment and tech companies were booming and demand and from people staying at home and turning to tech services more and more. these companies went on a hiring spree. perhaps that initiatives that were speculative or didn't payoff would've lasted for several years. it's different now where we have interest rate hikes and it's causing the same companies to cut back and correct for that over hiring for the most part. caroline: now we are in talk of

cuts so this 2024 mean we've rectified that and we see more exuberance and hiring or is it slower and more specific? >> after seeing some declines in layoffs over the course of this year, the past two months have marked an uptick in the tech layoffs. i expect that to carry over to early next year because the year end is a natural time as it coincides with budgeting. companies are taking stock of their full-year performance and looking ahead to next year, the job cuts are necessary to improve profitability. i expect it to remain slow for the next few months although as we look ahead to the rest of 2024, hopefully of interest rates do come down as expected, that would mean the firing would finally subside.

caroline: much of the so-called silver lining when everyone was talking about the big cuts being executed at the beginning of the year, they said more startups will form and more people will leave and be able to start up other companies. now it feels we are talking about technology being necessary everywhere particularly in ai and people going into the banking sectors and different industry groups that need that technology. there isn't an industry it doesn't affect. are people leaving tech more broadly? >> the latest information is effectively because fundraising is hard to come by. we are in and in your where the cost of capital is much higher than in years past. startups are finding it harder to raise money than before. that makes it harder for these laid off employees to stay intact or start their own company. you are finding that more and most folks are going to other industries.

either folks on the business side like sales people are leaving tech entirely because they can find better roles in other industries. the tech downturn has not broadly affected was going on in the economy where unemployment is still favorable. even engineers are also looking at other options. tech is everywhere and every industry has a need to invest in technology. ed: i found it fascinating that the principal driver is overcoming the exuberance from the pandemic. it felt like we told that story a year ago. why are these companies doing cuts 12 months later? i thought that was interesting. caroline: the pendulum hasn't swung completely and the other direction. we have to leave it there but thank you so much. he represents a benchmark measure that every media outlet

uses. that's talk about the french media group, it's breaking up its media and entertainment empire and we will get the details next. ed: we are taking a look at the shares of amazon. there's a 270 million dollar bill for allegedly illegal tax breaks. the u.s. court of justice dismissed the european commission's appeal yet another painful defeat. there's been a decade-long campaign against special tax treatment dulled at the companies by member states. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

that first time you take a step back. i made that. with your very own online store. i sold that. and you can manage it all in one place. i built this. and it was easy, with a partner that puts you first. godaddy. caroline: time now for talking tech. the pentagon's number two

official wasn't met with open arms on her trip to silicon valley. leaders told her the defense department must change as bureaucratic ways wants to boost military production. that's a problem that she and her predecessors have tried to answer for years. so far with limited success. u.s. lawmakers are responsible for enforcing sanctions to toughen up against china. a house, move forward with four measures that would mandate the commerce department be more transparent about licensing decisions and would give other agencies say in which technologies and firms are restricted. plus a french billionaire is considering a split of the media and entertainment empire he controls. the breakup would allow the dendy to split into several companies -- the dendy - vivendi to split but the stock has been surging. ed: we will continue that

conversation with our correspondent in paris. let's start with the basic premise of what is happening here. >> a very unexpected move announced at night yesterday that they would break up or explore the breaking up of his company in three different units. that would be one unit for pay-tv, a sort of netflix like streaming service across europe. another group would be avas which is an ad group valued between two and 3 billion euros but it's much smaller than its peers. that would be a standalone company as well. there would be a third company, investment company holding the shares of value groups vivendi

group has. they have the third biggest publishing company in the world. a complete split of the group and this will be explored now. caroline: maybe he thinks about selling a stake in telecom italia. paint the picture of this leader for us. the ceo almost doesn't get a mention here. this is sort of a rupert murdoch figure of france. >> yes, we've compared him to rupert murdoch in the past. he is like a media mogul and is pretty conservative in the line of his media outlets. he is 71 years old.

he officially retired last year so is not the ceo or chairman of the group that he is said to be calling the shots for any big moves like this and the writing on the wall, he's been known as a corporate raider and has made some surprising moves with his companies. he made a big move two years ago which is an inspiration for what's happening now. he is at the age of retiring, clearly. he has his two older sons both heads of companies. it seems he has some moves still to make. ed: thank you so much on that story. coming up, all the details on the ftc probe into ed dobie subscription cancellation rules.

we will be joined by the tech policy institute senior fellow coming up next. san francisco, this is bloomberg technology. ♪

ed: welcome back to bloomberg technology. caroline: let's get a check on the markets. we had the federal reserve yesterday signaling that cuts may come in 2024. the retail sales numbers show the resilience of the u.s. economy and the fact that cite 50% growth rather than a contraction. this is a strong economy so do we see a rotation? money going into the nasdaq tentatively. you're getting more love for

those left out in what's been not a small-cap 2023. bit coin is a little less even when there was a weaker u.s. dollar. let's see what's happening on the individual stock movers at the moment. apple hit an intraday high so there was some loss on big tech. moderna an interesting move, it looks as though the skin cancer vaccine is showing some promise in some of those tests. it's up 12%. adobe, off by almost 6%. a lot of this is to do with expectations of earnings. the market wanted to see more it social media but the ongoing narrative is getting pushback

and the ftc, the fact that they are too difficult to cancel. let's to ed: in on that. ed:adobe has been cooperating with the ftc in a civil investigation since 2022 which is policies around canceling subscriptions. it's driven many of you mad. it's an interesting disclosure that adobe had last night. let's bring in sarahoh lam. your reaction to the ftc look at adobe practices around canceling subscriptions and products and services? >> it was news yesterday in their filing which wasn't known before that that the ftc has an investigative demand before it and in november 2023, it would enter into negotiations to possibly impose penalties. they are using this authority of section fivea, unfair and

deceptive practices but they want to restore online customers act. folks might be reminded of the use of this law as well where the ftc sued amazon this year also for prime subscription practices. this is ongoing and its related to rulemaking proceeding, negative option rule proceeding from earlier this year as well. the ftc seems to be ramping up its investigations of subscription practices. caroline: maybe we shouldn't be surprised. president joe biden in march talked about the need for the ability to sign on to be as easy as canceling online subscriptions. when it costs up to $700 per year for an adobe subscription, no wonder it doesn't drag on in some way. do you think the ftc will get more broad with this? will it always look for settlements that could have

significant monetary costs? >> in january, it's going to have a public hearing about this negative option rule which is its way of saying they want to make a rule across all companies to cancel, the click to cancel. it's an ongoing, open proceeding for the ftc. what's interesting about yesterday's announcement is that they are sending these investigative demands to public companies outside of the rulemaking process. i think that might be causing some stock market affects that they are getting these investigative demands. what's interesting is figma acquisition is still up in the air and under review at the justice department. adobe has a few things happening with the ftc right now and

justice department. caroline: and so does some other companies. the ftc has gotten busy and so has global regulators toward the end of the year. the ftc is looking at the nature of microsoft's investment in ai and the eu is looking at a similar one and the u.k. is looking at a similar relationship between microsoft and openai and the eu is looking at many regulatory oversights. our regulators just having enough with these business models? >> what makes it easy for regulators is they can send a letter with not much cost. they prepare it and send it in the companies have to do a lot to respond and be on notice. it depends on your view of how broad the ftc section 5a authority is. if they are going beyond the scope of their authority or if they are within the scope of their authority.

that's a really good question right now about this ftc in particular. it's a little bit more active than prior ftc's. ed: i appreciate caroline's question because throughout the cadence of this year, the only thing we can agree on is there's been a lot of anti-tryst and regulatory news with big tech. who came out on top of the end of 2023, the regulators or technology companies? >> it slows down business but folks would say that maybe it's the job of these government regulators to make it harder or protect consumers. you hope there is that balance of being proconsumer and pro-investment especially for american companies which are making up the most of big tech in the markets and globally.

hopefully, they can strike that balance. ed: some of that was in the context of m&a. in 2024, what will be the area of focus from regulators as they look at technology companies? >> i think what's really important for us in the policy arena and congress and the regulators is to know that any government involvement slows things down. there might be good reasons for caution and policymaking but there is also of big important value in letting companies innovate and merge and acquire each other and learn that way. see what happens in the market. i would recommend the regulators to make sure we are accelerating

growth and not slowing it down. caroline: well said, great to have you. let's stick with that for a moment. we know the shares are under pressure at adobe. it seems to signal a potential of the ai boost when it comes to its product firefly will take longer then expected to boost the bottom line. wall street expects adobe to be one of the first giants to benefit from ai. for now, it's still slower than we thought. ed: breaking news -- bloomberg reporting citing sources that the european central bank and its policymakers are united in expecting to cut interest rates at a later date than the markets are currently pricing in. this is according to people familiar with the matter but it follows the tone of this morning's ecb decision and press

conference and rates matter no matter where you are in the world whether you're an investor or an individual citizen but that's what we are reporting that the ucb is united as a policy panel on the timing of those cuts being later than the market is currently pricing in. from san francisco and new york city, this is bloomberg technology. ♪

ed: time for the global vc roundup. an indian startup raised $40 million to strengthen its supply chain and boost vendor partnerships ahead of the stock market debut we think his plan

for 2025. it runs an online market place. french clean power firm received $68 million euros in because i equity funding from intermedia capital group as part of an agreement which allows the company to pursue his development plan the next two years. plus the beijing-based startup seeks to raise as much as $200 million in fresh capital according to a reuters report. it comes after the ai company reached a $1 billion valuation in november. caroline: let's stick with ai and look at the industries it will transform, most likely health care. i set down with steve krause to talk about what he is seeing and the impact so far. >> we at bessemer have made a large commitment to ai. health care is one of the industries where it will be most relevant and most impactful in the reason is health care is the

most laborious and inefficient industry in the economy. it also holds a lot of it is a we think about that combination. artificial intelligence is good at automating tasks in all parts of the economy but we think in health care it will be impactful. everywhere from how payment is administered on the back end and how health care is delivered by clinicians in terms of clinical support, ai can be impactful and how drugs are designed and delivered to improve human health. we think all aspects of the health care economy will be revolutionized by ai. caroline: we felt ai was a bright new shiny object in artificial intelligence has been in the news for years. for you, was it about starting to amplify the ai story amid the companies you've already back or is it finding new companies built out of this sudden change we saw with generative ai?

>> i think it's both. it's been around for a long time and we've been investing in five plus years in terms of how the technologies are applied to health care. i think there will be plenty of new opportunities that come out over the next decade about ai applied to health care but i think for existing companies as well. i talked about how health care is a laborious industry and a lot of it is services, humans doing tasks that can be automated that are pretty mundane but very important so we think ai will shift services to more software in their administration and how care is delivered. caroline: what has it done to the valuation story on the companies you want to invest in? >> ai is a hot space and evaluations are pretty robust. we also the op just think the opportunity is equally robust. there have been several platform changes from on premise software

to the cloud. that was a huge shift in the economy created hundreds of trillions of dollars of innovation entrepreneurship, the iphone was a huge moment. while valuations are heady, i think the opportunity is almost uncapped so we are excited and that applies to health care ai companies as well. caroline: when you think about bessemer ventures, think of the unbelievable companies that have gone public. who are they in your current source of portfolio companies you've invested in? >> the ai wave is early so i think those things will come in five or 10 years. one area we've invested in is the digitization of the health care economy. it's often been experience where people get their health in person but we saw that covid, the idea telehealth was big so

throughout the delivery of care whether it's companies like headspace help test health or head health which is focused on mental health where is the there is a lack of supply of clinicians so a company like headspace that delivers really important high-quality mental health care to all, if you have a phone, that's a huge opportunity we think will run for a long time. a company like hinge is the same when it comes to back or knee or hip pain. you don't have to see a physical therapist in person, you can do that care on your iphone so that's a huge market opportunity and those of the companies we think we will see get two exits in the near term. caroline: i'm based on the east coast aware of the opportunities coming from, where are these companies being built at the moment. >> we have long believed that

silicon valley is a hot that of innovation but boston is a hot bed of biopharmaceuticals and health care innovation we've invested all over the united states and all over the globe with offices worldwide. . we think entrepreneurs can be anywhere. one of the things remote work taught us is that entrepreneurs are everywhere and people can work everywhere. we've invested from minneapolis and north carolina to london, israel and across the globe. i don't think entrepreneurs are limited where they live. i think that spirit lives everywhere and the possibilities are everywhere. caroline: steve krause from bessemer venture partners there. ed: coming up, lab grown meat has received billions of dollars in venture checks but now it's growing into more of a problem than a solution. the new focus of a new feature in bloomberg businessweek and we will discuss it next. a quick check on shares of go to group which is avoiding further

market share losses and online shopping in indonesia and the ceo is holding a conference call with investors explaining the rationale in letting tiktok take a stake and do this in indonesia that we've been talking about for a little while now. the shares are responding positively overnight. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

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caroline: we are looking at data from doordash. days after netflix released its numbers, the delivery company order the most this year. top order food nationwide is still fry's. what are you people doing? they get soggy. i was interested as a brit that garlicnaan is so popular. i looked at the more nuanced parts of the list. ed: you and i are easily discoverable on social media on the x platform. whichever lunatics are ordering fries on delivery apps, please talk to us and let us know the rationale.

i've never had fries that arrive in good condition. just standalone fries? it's interesting data and it's interesting, the assessment of the health of the use of the ecosystem which is for delivery. caroline: and lack of health of those using it. we are in the holiday season. holiday hangover recovery items according to doordash, i can understand cheesesteaks but number two is cognac. really? ed: i've had some alka-seltzer in my time. i will stick with the idea of food and technology and venture backed startups in the meat space have received billions of dollars in the last decade. the companies are not actually differing on what was forecast on mainstream adoption. we dive deep into one of the industry's biggest players, upside foods. joining us as one of the co-authors of the peace in bloomberg businessweek. there is a stigma with lab grown

anything. tell us about your article in the magazine. what is the main conclusion it comes to? >> these companies promised they would deliver a center of plate style of needs that is equal substitute to folks who enjoy eating meat different from the plant-based industry where it's not necessarily 1-1-1 and not really meal me -- real meat. there are other components mixed in. what has become clear is over the years after hundreds of millions of dollars in funding for upside foods in particular, the company is still struggling to make the technology work to deliver what it has promised over the years. ed: is it even revenue-generating? does it have a real lab grown product it sells anyway? >> is supplying small marts test

small amounts to restaurants. it's far away from being able to make a similar product at scale for supermarkets. for years, the promise has been these kinds of companies by 2021, enter supermarkets like costco and the idea was people love eating meat, why should we slaughter warm animals for it? caroline: what ultimately has been an exuberance about the timetable here? is there any reality we will start to see lab grown meat on our plates? the beautiful part of the stories people are having to dig out of test tubes and make a tiny piece of chicken and they should be making much larger amounts? >> that's right, there are number of companies that say they will use animal cells to create hybrid products that are partly plant-based and partly does lab grown me to make a plant-based meatball taste more like actual chicken or actual beef. these companies say they will in

a couple of years have these hybrid products available but at the same time, the process has been slow moving and many of the largest companies are still in small-scale tasting events. in the case of upside foods, they have yet to be producing at scale. caroline: fascinating, go read the story, it's a history of what is exuberance in this space facing reality. we thank you so much. we are turning to another story that's gone viral that we haven't had a chance to discuss yet. elon musk is starting his own university. he is planning to start a university in austin. it will start with a $150 million gift and will start with a stem focus and move on to other education. it's not the first time he started education for kids. ed: he set up a school for his

children years ago in texas. this is the next level. caroline: will it have something to do with x? ed: i think it will be in proximity to his face company. caroline: that does it for this edition of bloomberg technology. ed: check out the podcast where ever get them. ♪

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♪ ♪ romaine: the fed fueled rally began yesterday and is an extension of a rally that's in on hold in last five or six weeks. there was a relatively dovish. plot. jay powell yesterday added fuel to the fire. it's not the s&p 500 or the magnificent seven.

it is the