>> this is bloomberg technology with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: i am at the world headquarters in new york, ed ludlow is off guard coming up as apple's smartwatch ban goes into effect, we break down the latest from washington. bytedance sales researched this year to more than 110 billion dollars overtaking competitive tencent. what's is is about the state of tiktok's e-commerce business. how hot or not the private equity market is going to start

up employees and investors seek to sell shares of their companies. markets relatively hard when you look at the nasdaq. nasdaq 100 is another record high. market their manage to rally -- that managed to rally, the consumer confidence is building and maybe the macro picture remains who will be able to tame some of the interest rate hikes and indeed some interest rate cuts coming in 2024. think about what is happening in the u.k. we have seen cooling and inflation. looking at individual movers and a case-by-case basis, number one, china did not see the fine we have seen in the united states and the nasdaq golden dragon on the downside by 1.2%. we see the big e-commerce players feel the pain coming from one particular bytedance. we are looking at what happened

with alphabet, google, we are digging into what really the changes at the google play store will be, not much in terms of business model impact. i'm looking at what happened with apple because this is the key story upon us, will they indeed see a band being enacted on the import of their watches? what does it mean and how much is the biden administration tracking the impending u.s. ban? there on nearly all apple watch sales due to a patent dispute with a power to veto the decision resting with u.s. trade representative. we discussed this with the ceo of mossimo, the company that is currently feeling its patents are being infringed and the ceo told us that they have -- the and administration has been in touch. >> i do not expect the immunization to step in here and every time apple contacts them, by law they have to call us to get our response. we have been in contact with them.

do not think they will intervene. i think the stunt to pull the product off of the market earlier than the itc decided, they are trying to get the public to force the biden do something that i do not think they should do but i do not think it will work. caroline: linda drives the coverage for the team, she joins us. remind us, go back to basics, we are thinking some sort of import ban will be enacted. patents are being infringed? >> thank you for having me, it is nice to be with you. this all stems from this big international trade commission case in which the agency ruled that apple had violated two very important health technology patents and develop -- in developing its recent apple watch series. they impose not only a u.s. ban on the equipment that apple needs to assemble his watches here in the u.s., but also an

injunction that will block apple from directly selling those series of apple watches here in the u.s.. as you noted, we are counting down the days to that actual ban. we are talking about right after christmas that ban takes effect. as the ceo of mossimo just characterized as a stunt, apple is deciding to wind down the sales ahead of the end christmas day injunction. caroline: a key selling time, think about what is over in the u.s., a boxing day like after thanksgiving in the u.s.. what does it mean when a fix could or could not be enacted? mossimo's ceo does not think it will be a software update ultimately. >> it would have to be a hardware change. he was telling us about four days. if a fix cannot be enacted, if there is no deal that is reached

between apple and mossimo, if the white house does not step in because it has had almost two months to decide on a veto, you do see the sales directly from apple affected. one thing i wanted to clarify as you said all apple watch is will stop in sales. that is not necessarily the case, that is apple's direct sales from its own retail stores. i want to point out that you can still go get your apple watches at best buy's, walmart's, not to give them any free marketing, but they have said, these other third-party retailers have said we will continue selling these watches. what remains a question is what happens if the inventory of these box shops end up going down,? or did they get the rest of it? and they bring in those devices from asia or other manufacturing centers by apple? keep those sales going for apple? we do not know. caroline: i wonder if it quick

kick starts some sort of rush. >> we have sent reporters out apple stores to see if there has been a rush, no rush yet. but you never know. caroline: no marketing for apple here, just the odd perspective on where and date if you can still purchase it. let us continue the antitrust side of all of this and what it means for patents and the longer term. but a spring in the principal and nicole smith intellectual property practice and -- let us bring in the principal at nicole smith intellectual property practice. getting ahead of a potential ban and helping -- forcing consumer's hands here. >> that is rare because injunctions like a ban on importation had been pretty rare in patent litigation since the supreme court decision about 2006. there has not been occasions

where a major player like apple would frequently face this kind of situation. caroline: we were debating if u.s. trade representative or indeed the administration what it anyway step in here overrule, giving us your perspective on what the pros and cons are of ultimately a government weight in here? >> people like apple watches and that would be a clinically popular decision, the cons are that it does not promote innovation in the u.s. because that is why patent rights are important and accompaniment mossimo is entitled to either licensing its patent to apple on the terms that they think are appropriate or to use their exclusivity from the technology they developed to gain market share. if apple does not want to deal with them or come up with its own solutions, the technical problems mossimo solved, apple will face a ban. or have to offer products that

do not have these features. caroline: we were speaking with the ceo of nasa mode this time yesterday and his points were clear he felt that his chief technology officer, medical officer, they have been poured over to apple and there was nothing he could have done at paying even further, they had the resources that could not be matched by smaller companies such as mossimo. i'm interested to the other clients who served, the conversations you had, how much of this behavior is happening if that is what occurred? >> i hear that kind of story all of the time from clients. a large technology company taking their intellectual property and trade secrets or patents and then using their on market advantages to beat the smaller guy. patents are a pool of small companies and that is why we need them to incentivize small companies to invent the next technology. small companies are aware the ground breaking innovation tends to occur. if the bigger guys always want

to win, they are allowed to copy. they have the pre-existing market advantages and well-known brand and the consumer-based distribution channels and what the small guys have is better technology. that is why it is so important for an electoral property rights the way that mossimo is. caroline: to that end, do you anticipate, if you were to put probabilities on it, will a deal be reached here? mossimo has been spending millions to ultimately prove a point here and to fight for the smaller companies. but also because it thinks it could win a lucrative deal, ultimately? >> i do not know what mossimo's business objectives are, they're willing to do a license, the question is what price. is it a price they are willing to take an apple is willing to pay? it turns a lot on what happens

on the 25th or the 26th of the president has issued his decision. idc vetoes are extremely rare. there has only been one in history. apple was the beneficiary of that one veto, it may be feeling a little bit of invincibility here. it has such a well-known brand and such political clout. but we will have to see what happens and if the president does not veto it, that may bring apple to the table. caroline: it is great to get your expertise, thank you for spending some time with us. the focus of the ip here. coming up, let us talk about competition elsewhere, tiptop helping its owner bytedance c sales surge. let us focus in on a mover on the day, paramount. reporting by bloomberg at the moment that it is in talks to sell its that network to a management led group. what could be the first and

perhaps a series of asset sales. bet is potentially being revived in terms of talks to sell that particular part of the media business for $2 billion. bloomberg intelligence saying that could be 6.5 times multiple . they talk about tapping a secular decline. -- about it being a secular decline. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

caroline: bytedance's wholesale surge in 2023 to over $110 billion. that is according to people familiar with the matter, they'll put it ahead of tencent. bytedance is seeking to expand in the area of e-commerce.

it is spring and, joining us from london. you are looking at what the driving force of the sales pickup is, it is phenomenal percentage point growth here. is it at the expense of market competition? >> as we look at our past her asian colleagues broke the story. bytedance's revenue is on track to exceed one billion -- 110 billion u.s. dollars. it is not just overseas but also at home. and hope it is expanding rapidly into areas such as helping people to book restaurant tables or take out and selling close online and overseas. it bought indonesia's companies, one of the major e-commerce platforms in indonesia and indonesia is one of the biggest e-commerce markets in the south east asia. as you said it is expanding rapidly overseas.

e-commerce offering but also at home as well. it could be because of some other competitors, a platform in china and also alibaba which is under pressure were not only pd but also bytedance and the offerings front. caroline: managing to scale at home despite weakening economy, we are saying it particularly showing strength in e-commerce, having done that $1.5 billion deal in indonesia. in the u.s., we likely to see that continue into 2024? >> especially when you think of 2024, in march of this year, the tiktok ceo has testified before congress went some lawmakers threatened to banned this app in the u.s.. i would want to point out that the rubber toy pressure is not

just in the u.s. -- that the regulatory pressures not just in the u.s.. and yet is another big country and this year india surpassed china as the most populous country in the world. tiktok is banned in india. there is no promise of the drug. with repression will not raise in china. the chinese government has been cracking at a companies domestically as well. revelatory pressures could be coming but also on multiple fronts. -- regulatory pressures could be coming but also on multiple fronts. caroline: revenue is managing to rise up amid the pushback in the u.s., great to catch up with you as always, thank you so much. the stick with bytedance and how we are seeing grants -- please stick with bytedance and how we are seeing brands flaunting themselves using the power of influence. fronting technology cofounder and ceo, you are staying up late in china and i'm interested ultimately, the sort of sales

growth that you hear reporting of 30% year on year, is that what you are seeing there out with your own data -- bear i out with your own data? >> we have seen 36 and 37. it really is. the platform of the younger generation as consumers really, the gen z come into their own right now. this is what they're using to shop and it is an interesting transition. it has happened very quickly. we are pretty excited about it. everything that was in the bloomberg article and has been released is quite low from what we have seen on the ground. caroline: talking of what you see on the ground and do on the ground you are helping perhaps western company brands access asian buyers whether or not it is from china, japan, south korea. how much are they leading on

doing big of these sorts of e-commerce and content platforms at the moment? >> the brands we are dealing with in china certainly, this is not new. this is been going on for a couple of years now. they have been getting a lot of growth numbers and we talk about you mentioned before about the consumer over here, we look at different categories, so that large durables and things like that that have shown weakness, they are not exposed to. there is a fashion, health, and monist, younger consumers really engaging with it. bytedance is where well-positioned for that. these growth numbers we are seeing coming out today again, and line with what we are expecting. next year i think we will see this again if not better. caroline: what sort of roi is a brand getting when they invest in what content on the platform? also selling via it?

they have to pay an upfront fee to influencers? >> is a different more for bytedance. bytedance is a very easy platform to engage with influencers. there are a lot of them out there but they can be charging 30 or 40 or 50% commissions. that is not unheard of. we go back to the big influencers on team a couple of years ago. it was about the same rights. bytedance is getting a percentage of that. they are not in much better financial shape. to pay that, again, you can put your product or service, again restaurants, dental cleanings, and for the millions of people very quickly and you have to have faith in your product to that second or third purchase. they come back to the brand directly. they will not pay that fee. it is not work for large durables which are one of the

office. it works for cosmetics, athleisure and things that can be repeated again and again. we see brands doing very well. they are engaging in that model here. caroline: always great to stay up with you and for you to give us your time when it is late. to get your on the current expertise. stay well. breaking news for you, this is as the ftc is proposing changes to children's privacy protection rules. they will place new restrictions on the use and disclosure they of children's information as there is ongoing concern about the access of data in children's interpretation onto use of social media companies and more broadly the internet. let us talk about or else we are seeing changes. alphabet's agreement to end abuse of market power on its google play store may come with a catch. we delve more into that in a

moment. but a strict and on the shirt of zoom today. michael turner is out with recommendations to cut the price target on zoom. he is single underweight. we are seeing a price target of $70 trading at $71.48. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

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t. rowe price, invest with confidence. caroline:. time for talking pack. the ftc has been busy with the federal trade commission on this part. rite aid must stop using facial recognition for surveillance. right aid system generated false matches involving race without notifying customers. right it cannot use the system for the next five years which was allegedly spotting shoplifters. chinese internet company alibaba is in the midst of an executive

checkup, replacing the chief after a roughly 20 year stint. he will instead help set up a holding firm for managing alibaba's global assets. claims on crypto exchange empty x are soaring, trading at 57, $.73 on the dollar. unclear whether distributions will actually be made or how much customers and creditors will receive. let us talk about a little imelda customers will be receiving from the alphabet case. 700 million deal was agreed to alter its google play app store. many are now pointing out some of the loopholes around developer service fees. let us get more context. before we get into the fact that a consumer in this case would get about two dollars from google and the $700 million settlement. but ultimately people are nitpicking here is the fact that they were not to change their business model that much. the month they charged to the

developer? >> google has made a concession here with a steel where they are going to allow developers to give users access to alternate payment options. they can use paypal or anything else as its own billing system instead of going through the google pay billing system. they charged 30% and they are offering a discount of 4% and 26%. developers are paying a hefty service fee. i am not sure whether the focus in this will actually go down to a consumer and if it will benefit a consumer. there have been some folks who have been watching what google has been doing over the years with its google play policies and it seems like they are concerned that this settlement does not far enough to benefit developers and consumers. caroline: epic which won against

alphabet last week in court in particular calling the vp of public policy saying that ultimately this does not in any way help consumers in terms of overpaying. what we see any change to the business model if it? is not forced by the courts? >> i think it will be interesting to see what will happen in court because epic won a case against google play's policy which they challenged on antitrust grounds. next year the judge will think about how google play policies should be even. should there be a standard 30% commission fee or 4% discount? should developers have to pay google this service fee? google and its defense says we have to keep our android system going. we have invested in it so we have to talk to feet. have to see what happens in court next year. caroline: thank you, she has been all over these court rulings.

we get a read on the liquidity the private markets. special liquidity in the private markets. this is bloomberg technology. ♪ the power goes out, and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book. who are you?

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caroline: welcome back to bloomberg technology let us get a quick check on the markets because we are able to power and higher, optimism will see rate cuts as soon as of march of next year. the bank of philadelphia president making headlines on the back of whether or not we will see a need to pull back in terms of the rate hiking cycle. you do not need to raise rates anymore, hold steady. a .3%, bond's managing to rally on the back of hopes we will see consumer optimism as it its a high today -- as it hits a high today. a 20 year option later today. bitcoin getting a bid today. it is getting crazy out there and of course it is not just

bitcoin doing well, the altcoins are back. dog cat seems to be doing particularly well. look at that, 54% here today and we have a new record high for the big tech benchmark. what does the public market fit into the private market? our valuations under pressure or round on higher? whether it is a good time to buy into the hardest part of such as openai and space x? pointing us now is an expert. oceanic partner ceo. you are an advisory firm and you focus on ensuring liquidity is there with the investments that you make of the private markets. are we seeing decent liquidity for some of these hardest names? >> we are saying liquidity coming back. i would say in some of the names by openai and i are in general, those tables are pretty small. there is not a lot of liquidity.

and most of the other big names there are transferable -- they are transferable. we are seeing pricing at lower levels than over the past two years. caroline: is that why there there is this anticipation of rights coming down? risk tolerance coming back? wanting to buy in cheaper prices? who are the people putting? >> is coming back on and at the same time, a lot of the shareholders that have been waiting for liquidity for the past two years and the markets to rebound our somewhat running out of air. they need liquidity, without companies going public, individuals literally need capital to survive for renovations and taxes and mortgage rates going up for emergencies. at some point they're looking for liquidity and the reality is the buyers who have been institutional for the past

couple of years, they have not moved their bids. they have remained low and based on fundamentals until there is. a coming down to bridge the gap. caroline: those sellers being employees, we seeing any investors wanting to liquidate as well -- are we saying any investors wanting to liquidate as well? >> there are plenty of early investors looking for liquidity. no one knows how long this will last, is it natural exuberance? well we see the rate cuts next year? is that different from the markets? it is hard to say and some people can wait for another two or five years and other people cannot. caroline: i do not want to ask you to pick a favorite child but are there names you are seeing time and time again being analyzed and brought up? are they the ones we are talking about ipo in the near future? >> i think there are rumors moving around that openai may do a raise or to ipo in the first

quarter of next year and to beat out xa i. data breaks and space x have been resilient through this meltdown. they, who knows, i think of the market conditions are appropriate they will move their ipos up. i'm not sure about space x. there are a few years out. data breaks and some others may be sooner than you think. caroline: been democratization, the idea that we saw cathie wood with our offering up this etf, allowing normal people to be able to have access to some of these pre-ipo names. are we seeing syndicates come in and are you seeing sort of angel teams coming into by and on this stock and allow still investors and people who do not have billions of dollars in management? >> i have mixed feelings, without legitimate information

and cues and case being filed at regular, normal people as you call them are not equipped to do the diligence to invest in these names. there is a lot of and a lot of outside -- downside. it is not for the faint of heart. if you have access to information, i think the your work and make the most educated decision that you can. if you do not have access, maybe it is best to stay away. caroline: for some of the institutions that use say have stood firm still standing and wanting to take a bit and when it to be a lower valuation, or the all u.s. institutions largely? are we getting foreign buyers coming in? >> we are getting more foreign buyers in but by and large it is still a u.s. market. caroline: i'm interested to ultimately whether you do think the ipo market is going to pick up. you are talking about there are rumors and swelling of an early public are forgiven from an openai. there has been dissed on beat we

have seen more names come in 2024. is that likely to happen? >> i look at it from two different perspectives. if the market does come back and irrational exuberance stays, we will see ipos in 2024, even as early as late q1. i see things like inflation, unemployment, cpi and roe micro factors that have not changed as much as they need to to support the ongoing next phase of the market. if the irrational exuberance phase, we are out until late 2000 30 for 2025. -- 2024 through 2025. >> space x? how has that been? >> that is extremely rare but a lot of the valuation talk around those specific companies is driven in the media.

i do not know that the numbers still support those valuations. those are a couple of companies where the valuations are not based on fundamentals. at some point, i'm sure they can grow into those valuations but most of the companies out there today or trading more along the lines of fundamentals. when i say that they are creating at discounts of 50 through 70 plus percent of where they were trading in lake 2021. caroline: is there any sort of great things we can see as to whether it is the fintech space that has taken the most hits? companies exposed to a consumer? or is it across the board you have seen lower at 50 through 70%? >> it is across the board. as i mentioned, a couple of exceptions. caroline: it is great to catch up with you. thank you so much. oceanic partner ceo. it will be pretty busy. telefonica c-shares in spain

surging after the government announced plans -- telefonica shares in spain surging up to the government announced plans to overtake it. talk of managers being told that some salaried employees in tesla are not going to be offered merit-based equity awards this year. the company did not give a reason for the change but four employees from different apartments told us that they believe the move is pretty widespread. they get adjustment to pay salaries, because of them increase, but those stock options are being dialed back a little bit. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

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division ha a massived leak after a ransomware attack. for more, let us bring in maggie murphy who joins us now and for many, you go back to 2014 and sony pictures, this is a games division of sony and what details are being leaked? and a lot of hr documents and financial documents about budgets, ranking details, wire transfers, and then the more sensational stuff which is the footage from games that are

slated to be released to the coming years. while reading, we can see all of the materials, all of the marvel scenes that are coming up. upcoming missions, trainings, really, a huge leak this developer studio. caroline: the videogame industry is pretty prevalent since 2022, some of the big tax occurring, they go what has happened with grand theft auto six as well getting leaked ahead of its official launch. i'm interested in who is behind this particular attack and what we know about them? >> this group is called rice it dev. they are every summer as a service group. people will come to them and give them a target and they will provide the malware that is used to attack the target and then they sure as a ransom demands

with their affiliates. we understand that around 25th of november that the group was able to infiltrate insomniac and then the group would have basically told them we have stolen your files and encrypted them if you do not give us bitcoin will release them. we know the subsequent files were sold on the criminal market and leaked this week. caroline: who does the group tend to give malware to hack? is it the gaming industry more broadly? is across industry? -- is it across industry? >> they seem to be targeting lower hanging fruit, they have been going after smaller companies and organizations that may be their security is not as tight. they went through it, they have hacked sony essentially through a subdivision of sony.

the last and most recent hack was the british library and they targeted manufacturing. they have been targeting health care and schools as well. these small organizations are normally forgotten by the big time hacking ransomware groups. they have been going after smaller groups and having some success with it. their extortion demands are usually lower. it indicates that the hacking itself is not a sophisticated. the malware is unable to infiltrate laser secured systems -- infiltrate more secured systems. caroline: thank you for bringing the news uncertainty -- on sony. the british government planning to buy a stake in telefonica to safeguard one of the most strategic assets.

saudi arabia builds up his own position in the company. from london, it is interesting that this has been a company that for years has tried to distance itself from the government and it has to go to them a little bit closer? >> it is fascinating as the government moved out, the middle eastern government has moved in on european telecoms and this is not the first example. vodafone's is one of the biggest telecom groups in europe had a uae backed company by up over 50% of its shares by the last couple of years, this is somewhat of a trend. caroline: it is a trend, how much of a concern about foreign ownership more broadly is it? is it middle eastern names they are pushing back against? what is their vindication or reasoning for it? >> on the second question, telecom firms, there have been drives but they underpin everything that we do and covid showed that, we were all

dependent on them to do everything. beyond that, defense, government, tables, big business, banking transactions, these are all reliant on a handful of indications and in the case of the u.k. bt, these formerly state backed companies are now, the state is stepping and once again and it is also interesting, other rivals to have government stakes. it is a return to that status quo. telecom has a big government stake and orange in france, has a government stake as well. caroline: telefonica is not just all about spain, it is about latin america and its business there. or does that mean for building businesses abroad? -- what does that mean for building businesses abroad? >> i do not know what the saudi government has gone through its plans if they have them for telefonica. there is pressure on the telecoms industry to maximize the value of assets.

it has been a terrible sector for share prices, one of the worst globally. there has been carveouts for infrastructure and sales of local units. possibly the spanish government is stepping in to make sure it has a voice in those discussions. caroline: big player with market capitalization. 21 billion dollars in spain. thank you for bringing us all things telefonica. let us move to a key focus on e-commerce. we are sitting down with a fintech start up is betting on the strength of bricks and mortar. speaking of commerce, we are looking at shares of fedex, are you getting us delivered? some of your holiday gifts? shares have been tumbling up to the earnings report that exposed the weakness in the company's express air business. the company's largest unit by sales of struggling from week freight demanded overcapacity and commercial airlines have been back and carrying cargo to in terms of international flights. nine by 11% for the company today. -- down by 11% for the

company today. this is bloomberg technology. ♪ let's settle up the score. it's time to travel to paree, spend retirement happy. call 877-sell-easy. 877-sell-easy. 877-sell-easy, and sell your policy. you can sell all or part, live your life and play it smart. 877-sell-easy, and sell your policy. if you've had a change in health, or you're over 65, and paying for $100,000 or more in a life insurance policy you don't need, get paid for it instead. then take the money that you get, go to live it up, you bet. call 877-sell-easy. 877-sell-easy. 877-sell-easy, and sell your policy. caroline:s

attracted more than 1.9 billion dollars in revenue for the year. it is one of europe's most viable start ups. it is adding as many as 2000 users a week. however, the startup which was

recently valued at $33 billion in 2021 has yet to receive its banking license from u.k. regulators. meanwhile, sticking with fintech, we are talking about the holiday season within it, we are in full swing. many of you including me shop online, you will be seeing bricks and mortar monitor their own. a fintech company is looking to offer passive income to investors willing to bet on traditional bricks and mortar. i am pleased to say that the founder and ceo of the passive income play is here. come on board, help land to a company that is growing and you will get a nice return. the company does not have to sell equity? is that the win for them? >> our intention is to provide a passive income opportunity for investors and they provide their capital in exchange for a percentage of sales rather than

a percentage of the business. as a result they stressing their repayments from the business in month one versus waiting for a year before they see the returns from their investment. caroline: all of this is to give more options at optionality to a retail investor who is looking for yield? how much have you had to focus in on education here? there is concern about the democratization of finance meaning that they got short with confetti every time they bought a stock. have you thought about educating the consumer on this? >> education has been important and what we do. we went to market on our agreement as the repeatable revenue agreement. the intention behind it is we wanted to shape the investor's perspective of what we do versus reliant on their existing understanding. it gave us an opportunity to educate the investor base and say this is how we do things and here is every piece of the fundamental do you need to understand about our agreement for you get involved. we have kept the accredited investors, we think about as we expand how we broaden the base.

caroline: it is coming at a time when the music around the consumer gets a little bit better? how have you managed to see companies perform and show resilience? you are lending to the well known restaurant groups. then some individual names that might be a yoga studio for example and then a store? which have done well, have and he problems servicing? what sweet focus on businesses. we do find that as food and beverage as you referenced and the second category is wellness. i think medical spas, gyms, salons and the third category is more traditional pair. either in clinics or something like a carwash. our belief especially coming out of the pandemic is that brick-and-mortar services is here to stay. if anything, is on the rise. we all live in a world we were not experiencing services. that is not the world we want to live in. we have seen across our

portfolio strong performance. that is aided by the rising consumer spending. caroline: i'm looking at the house andrea's group, why did they need to access money from you? why not go to a regular banking product when you are that big of a player? >> we think about our source of financing, and unnecessarily for those who are in need of financing. when we look at the brick-and-mortar services sector, we believe that the capital stack and the options in the capital stock of not actually innovated in the way that multiunit retail has innovated in the last decade. when we look at that we think about what we are providing here with our repeatable revenue agreement as expanding our capital stack. it is not necessarily meant to replace the equity on your cap table replace traditional debt. but you just give you one more tool in your belt that you can leverage as you think about growth and scale. we see businesses adopting us as well as the younger players that

are being a lot more sensitive to dilution than they were a three through five years ago. caroline: what about your table? pitching yourself as a fintech business with valuation. have you raised funds? is it hard or easy to tell your story? >> prior to building this, we had brick-and-mortar business. we were underserved in the capital dismissed that existed. nothing fit what i was looking for. it was very easy to translate that into a story and paint the picture for the knee there. as we think about our cap table when we think about our roadmap ahead, our first product is the repeatable revenue agreement which is a financial vehicle. when we think about the future, there is opportunity to serve brick-and-mortar beyond that. caroline: great to have you on the show. that is the bonside founder and ceo, and up to speed wherever

you listen on apple, spotify, ironheart, bloomberg.com too. this is bloomberg technology. ♪ 202 pounds on golo.'ve lost so the first time i ever seen a golo advertisement, i said, "yeah, whatever. there's no way this works like this." and threw it to the side. a couple weeks later, i seen it again after getting not so pleasant news

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vonnie quinn: let us have a quick check of the markets, we saw a fedex earnings, a bellwether for the economy came in disappointing and we have the s&p 500 holding onto some small gains today, inching closer to the record. this is of course as traders look forward to pce data friday and gdp data thursday. up to .7% for the s&p 500. the 10-year yield for the auction is 3.88. crude oil and barely holding onto gains, like he is saying that it may have supply shortages because of the red sea problems. that continues.