>> from the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide in silicon valley and beyond this is bloomberg technology with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: i'm caroline hyde. ed: ed ludlow live from las vegas. caroline: coming up hackers took at the sec at account to falsely

announce approval of the bitcoin spot etf. we break down what happened and what to expect regarding today's deadline. hewlett-packard announces plans to buy juniper networks for $14 billion. we discussed the deal with the ceo. and we sit down with ceo's as a tech conference is in the life and soul of technology coverage right now. go to ed in las vegas now. the wealth of discussion around auto. the wealth of discussion around ai was clear yesterday. what do you see being adopted by the price at the moment? ed: day two this morning certainly the new cycle is starting to play out here. you have everybody on the ground in higher concentration from across the industries. we got etv -- ev data for the last months of 2023 and are lots of ev companies hear word about

the demand picture. we will have a conversation with panasonic later about that and amazon and twitch news about layoffs is a concern. caroline: and concern about whether technology valuations are right treated the rbc note from laura kelly c-note said valuations are too high. they are cutting their overall recommendation on the -- u.s. tech. is that a bit of a down drop in ces? ed: it kicked off the news with nvidia with ai traffic -- graphics chips for pcs. that put the stock in different direction. there are people that think nvidia is still cheap. what we are seeing in this cycle is company saying this is how we will actually use ai in our business internally. we want you to assign more value to our companies. the ai will boost our margins. it will increase sales conversion. i will dig more into that later in the show. i put their newsletter out on that point this morning and it generally does genuinely is the

conversation. caroline: that it's a conversation we will have with hp ceo. we will get back to ed in a moment. we are seeing tentative gains in the nasdaq more broadly up about .3%. new companies hitting new 52 week highs. meta-now the highest since september 2021. the 10 year yield, more sales on deck with a 10 year auction at 1:00 p.m.. currently flat. a big take up on the three-year yesterday. the bond market is dictating travel for the stock market where we consider the federal reserve. new york crude has been volatile of light, whether it is supply-side concern with the red sea. sickly flat, $72. our new york crude. in crypto all eyes are on a real sec announcement that may come today. currently up 2.3%. over the last three trading

days. in the level of 45,000 their bouts. at about 4:00 p.m. yesterday in new york time on joining us now is sonali basak. regarding this, many are pointing fingers, ultimately, it seemed to be a lot of two factor authentication. don't use your phone as your second form of authentication if that is what was happening. what did you make of the market reaction? antoni: sonali: it was a real-time test of what would happen if the sec does approve a bitcoin etf trading price spike to almost $48,000. when the news what's reversed, we have seen very sluggish movement even though many market participants, including many issuers, believe they will still get approval today. you saw the price crashed back down by more than $2000 for bitcoin. you saw it closer to $45,000 at its low. 45,500 give or take at the

moment. does it get near the $48,000 high? in the coming days if we get an approval and more trade in, what does that mean for price action after that? a lot of investors believe maybe it is prized to perfection. we have seen the best in terms of movement, in terms of what an sec approval for a spot bitcoin etf could bring to the table for bitcoin. caroline: the lights those offering the etf's, and we know there seems to be a race to the bottom in terms of management fees. it will be incredibly cheap to build this into your portfolio. are they worried by these false starts? are they worried that it firms are dent that is further dents desire to get into the speculative asset class? sonali: there was less concern around the etf itself and sec approval and more concern around sec management processes. said it was not a happy.

it was because of a compromised individual stealing a phone number associated with the account. it is interesting gary gensler himself used the word compromised rather than hacked. a lot of lawmakers here are attacking the sec as well. gary gensler, republican lawmakers in particular, are concerned about how the sec is managing the process. i would say coinbase's executives are online saying that they could be a part of the solution here. the sec and coinbase have been in their own disputes for the last couple months. so, the sec's ability to overseas crypto industry has certainly long been in question. now there are more eyes on that out after the sec snuffer last night. caroline: that rubbed salt into the wound for the fec -- s.e.c.. i want to reiterate my husband is a direct threat coinbase. talking about the broader crypto sphere, what this means if we sign off for a spot bitcoin etf

as soon as today. we have the founder of managing partner of future perfect ventures, a firm focusing on bitcoin -- okta technology, crypto assets, human crypto interaction. what did you alternately think of this almost test case to the price reaction to the signoff? how much is baked in? how much exuberance is there within the $48,000 price point? jalak: it's great to be with you again. it has been an amazing 24 hours for crypto. i think that if we look at the price action, it has been pretty narrow. there is a lot of pent-up energy and demand for the asset. caroline: what does this mean for crypto more broadly? there has been a lot of focus on

bitcoin. perhaps dragging away some liquidity and ultimately volume from altcoins. you are thinking about business models within crypto. it is their exuberance building into other parts? ether, solana? jalak:eth appreciated quite a bit over the last 24 hours since the pack and i think there is an expectation or viewpoint the sec will continue to approve select crypto assets like etf's. that allows more retail investors and institutions to feel comfortable owning these assets. if we take a step back, these are new financial classes. but, it is all driven by technology and what has been enabled by the increase in processing power, and a lot of that works in tandem with

artificial intelligence. all the technologies are now being enabled in real-time. it is a new financial system that will not only be built on base rails, but also allow more access for people that -- for people to own these assets. i have so many people around the world i have talked to over the last 10 years since launching future perfect ventures that ask, how do i buy bitcoin? they didn't know you didn't have to buy a whole bitcoin. they did not know how to custody bitcoin. this is on a worldwide basis. this bitcoin etf approval is the first step to allow more mass ownership of these self sovereign assets. i think it is certainly a watershed moment in not only the financial end of this, but the technology behind assets. caroline connan let's see if that -- caroline: let's see if that happens. we want to thank you so much jobanputra managing partner.

tune into bloomberg etf iq. cathie wood and cecilia snyder will join the big c -- big show. coming up way set down with the hpec ceo. this is bloomberg technology. (upbeat music) there's more to business than the business you're in. if you use data, that's the privacy business. manufacturing on demand? you're talking cloud business. got a few million hyper-connected customers? digital experience business. that was fast. that's where deloitte comes in. with the right combination of talent and technology to help advance and connect all that it takes to excel in business ... to the business i'm in. deloitte. you can't buy great conversations

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c caroline: welcome to bloomberg technology. on tuesday hpe announced it plans to buy juniper networks for $14 billion in a move to expand its presence in networking. there is skepticism raised by wall street. the hpe ceo antonio neri joins us to talk about everything -- their reasoning.

what attracted you to juniper networks? is there any worry about overlap here? antonio: good afternoon. thank you for having me. it was an exciting day for hp. our share hurdles, customers, and employees are reshaping the entire network and industry with amazing complementary assets to capture the inflection point we see today, particularly, with ai. we believe this will topo charge -- turbocharge the strategy i put in place five years ago that we have been executing with discipline. it ultimately gave us relevancy in this massive inflection point. juniper brings to us the complementary capabilities we did not have across the networking portfolio. thing about it this way.

have across the networking portfolio. thing about it this way. we are actually creatingantonioe

business has done a great job driving ai driven disruption. we have an amazing platform with hp aruba networking that are complementary because we have this scale, the rate of aruba technology and go to market perspective. they have been innovating in what i call the next generation of ai driven secure networking. we will bring them both together to deliver a better solution for customers. on the other side, you need to understand that it also brings amazing silicon capabilities for high-performance networking. we have been focused on ai interconnected fabric. this will turbocharge our strategy because we are the market leaders in supercomputing. when you talk about ai, large language models, whether it is weather or other applications, you need high-performance silicon.

the core foundation of that is the network. we will create a network solution. we will add the date a liar on top of that and deliver a secure unified experience to our amazing platform. caroline: sticking with the technology and profitability, the margin difference we see in networking businesses, junipers is lower than yours. how do you bring that up? is it ensuring you are in the ai sphere able to charge more for what you are providing? antonio: you have to look at the gross margin level and have super high gross margin level because of the entire ownership. we will bring the efficiency in order to drive the operative margin leverage by reducing cost around the ability to go execute. we believe the first step is cost's energy. that is why this energy costs

more than pay off the capital we are taking to pay for the transaction. on top of that you will have revenue synergies. a higher gross margin. ultimately the scale of our reach will drive better operative margins for shareholders and translate into free cash flow. remember, the transaction is a creative from day one. caroline: we want to remind bloomberg tv and radio audiences we are setting down with hpe ceo antonio neri. talking about cost discipline, where does the cost come out? antonio: the biggest part is the gna side. hpe and my team had a tremendous track record driving operating leverage across the country. when i became ceo arnon gap turnage per share was $.96. we exited 2023 with more than $2.12. a lot of that was gross margin

expansion to pivot to the portfolio, which this transaction turbocharge is the talk about higher growth areas. then reducing the cost to run the business through automation and efficiency. that portion will be a huge booster to the juniper operating margin. remember also, we will give them also access to capabilities they could not deliver themselves as a service model cloud scale. last but not least, they go to market. hp has a crown jewel, go to market reach everywhere in the world. 172 countries. caroline: $40 billion in cash is a lot of money. what about the buyback from is it evidenced? what about how else to play back with -- payback when you have a debt load? antonio: we are committed, number one, to maintaining our credit rating. that's very important to us.

we believe that is absolutely doable. number two, we are maintaining the share buyback commitment we gave at the security analyst meeting in october and the dividends. that is a core component of our capital turned to shareholders. over the next two years post closing, we will return to two times leverage and pay down the debt. one component of that is obviously the proceeds from our age 3 -- age 53 divestiture in china which has proceeded well. and in the synergies we will drive through free cash flow generation on the juniper side and the hp side. that is why, when i think about the shareholders, this is a no-brainer in many ways. it is the best use of cash to drive long-term sustainable profit growth and free cash flow to result in a better return for shareholders over time.

caroline: the hpe ceo. this is bloomberg.

>> welcome back to ces las vegas. it's ai everything. not just software and devices but infrastructure providers. we are joined by siemens u.s. ceo barbara compton. your company is positioning itself a lot of different liars what is happening -- at a lot of different liars of what is happening with artificial intelligence, a lot of it with aws and microsoft, the two cloud leaders in that space. it's been what you're doing. barbara: here is what is going on this decade. if the last two decade or so was about the internet of people now it is the internet of things. we have deep domain knowledge. think about classic tech

companies that have worked in ai bringing this to bear and others like nvidia that are bringing high processing power to the field. we are partnering with companies with superpowers. we are focusing those technologies on the domains we understand so well. ed: the aws component. you are saying you are taking one technology platform and marrying it with bedrock, that we have covered on this program deeply for a while now. how does that work? barbara: think about the need for people to embed ai programs into their operations. with aws ai components, now with siemens u.s. low code men decks, normal people like us are democratizing technology. we have the ability to use point and click, very intuitive interfaces to put together our own program. ed: microsoft is a part of that as well. what is the difference in those relationships? barbara: different focus areas.

with microsoft we recently announced the industrial copilot. imagine you want to reprogram the controls you have in a manufacturing environment. you now have the ability with the industrial copilot to interface with natural language to write the programs. now i believe we will bring more and more people into the fields of engineering. let me tell you about one more. sony just announced an exclusive arrangement with us working with siemens u.s. software through the accelerator platform. creating an industrial engineering vr headset bringing the industrial metaverse to life. everybody has talked about what is the true value of the metaverse. here is the proof point. the ability for engineers to meet in our common area from where ever and use the intuitive interfaces they know from gaming to interact and create and develop new things. wtae --wesley roland busch the

global ceo spoke to us last year when you announced an infrastructure investment in the u.s.. the idea is you want to be a part of the supply chain for the data center providers. the semiconductor supply chain as well. what can you give them? how are you helping them? barbara: siemens u.s. creates technology to combine the real and digital world. all the things that set the edge. what does it take to bring ai into the world? data centers capable of handl ing that. how do you build a data centers? it requires a ton of electricity. how do you embed what is being developed in the industrial space? the $500 million investment put new switchgear manufacturing in texas and new rail manufacturing in north carolina. ed: you have met with a number of government officials you're on that investment specifically. how big of a factor was the ira in convincing you this was a

good project? barbara: we have seen customers everywhere choosing to come to that u.s. senate invest. on the chips and sciences act 52 billion dollars of government investment is a down payment. well over $250 billion have already been committed by the private sector. ed: which divisions will benefit the most from the broom and is there anything missing you have to go shopping for? barbara: this is the most exciting sector in technology today. everybody has thought of industry and infrastructure being relatively disconnected and analog, but it's all becoming digital. we build comment all that apply today to energy, infrastructure, transportation, health care. investors will ask, what else can this do? how do we bring value into the real world? ed: the siemens ceo barbara humpton.

there is a big question this morning about the demand for electric vehicles and we will have that conversation coming up with one of the key suppliers to names like tesla and other automakers that are investing in the u.s.. from ces las vegas this is bloomberg technology. thanks to avalara, we can calculate sales tax automatically. avalarahhhhhh what if tax rates change? ahhhhhh filing sales tax returns? ahhhhhh business license guidance? ahhhhhh -cross-border sales? -ahhhhhh -item classification? -ahhhhhh does it connect with acc...? ahhhhhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhh

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caroline: i'm caroline hyde in new york. four straight days of gains on the nasdaq 100 up in excess of 2% over those days, even though we start to see more analysts bearish ceiling perhaps money moving in has slowed significant end of the technology space. rbcs lori calvison today. nasdaq 100 up .35% still. money on death when it comes to new issuance. corporate debt and also u.s.

treasuries got a 10 year on debt reopening today flat head the auction. but going current bring up .2%, way off the full start, the inadvertent, basically incorrect post on at saying the sec had given the go-ahead for the spot bitcoin etf. not yet. we anticipate that later today if they sign off. let's look at individual movers. big tech names on deck to focus on breed another downgrade for apple to. overall down .4%. redbird atlantic worried about valuation and pricing for apple. amazon higher perhaps amidst job layoffs. they have to trim costs particularly in studios with prime video and twitch. tesla is down to a two month blow off by a percentage point. all ev names are seeing weakness today as we see new sales data from cox automotive showing a

third straight sequential decline in growth areas for ev sales, just 1.5% of growth in the last three months of last year way off the 15% we saw in q2. why? let's go to ed with someone who will know. ed: here at ces las vegas ev as a segment is a big topic of conversation. the data from cox about demand in the final three months of 2023 is what people are talking about. we have a great conversation coming up with the panasonic north america ceo megan myungwon lee. caroline was referencing this cox automotive data, low single-digit growth final three months. there is basically a feeling that early adopter ev demand has been and gone and at broader market is pulling back a little bit. through the lens of panasonic as a key battery supplier what do you see? megan: we do not see it that way it all. it is a long commitment. we do not want to get too surprised or intimidated by the

short-term data. we are still very committed. our operation in reno that has been there for about 10 years and in the new factory we are building in kansas, we are still going bullish. we are looking forward to the production in early next year, 2025. ed: i have many questions about kansas city. our audience wanted to know about that. let me ask about tesla. it hit 1.8 million vehicles in 2023. it has a 50% annual growth rate target each year. how do you view tesla specifically? you probably have the best lens as a supplier. megan: we have a long-term partnership with tesla and it is still strong. tesla is not the only partner we are seeking. we want to diversify to really make the ev market in general stronger and sustainable. ed: kansas city is a john

yarmuth factory you are hoping to get into production 2025. megan: it's going great. the skill workers about 30% done. we have about 100 less people already work -- 100 plus people already working there and 650 construction workers working every day. i was there a few months ago and it is massive and very impressive yet we will have about 4000 employees working there once it is in production. to prepare, we are partnering with local community colleges. ed: for training purposes. megan: right. it's one of opportunity for the community too so the students can be prepared and have a job waiting for them and there is a long-term career. we want to partner with workers and the employees that we can work with long term. ed: you said when you go into production. what will kansas city be doing and how is it different from reno?

megan: kansas, the local government and entire business development community has been a really strong partnership since the very beginning when we started communication. location was perfect. kansas provides a skilled workforce already. we are very hopeful about that and it is a wonderful partnership on around to work with. ed: what will it make? what is the product panasonic will manufacture in kansas city? megan: the ev battery. the 21 ev batteries. the cylindrical lithium-ion ev batteries. ed: i want to get ai, but a final on ev batteries. 46 80's coming out of japan now. how is that going? what is the future for 4680 in the u.s.? megan: we are very bullish about the technology. there's a lot 46 can do compared to the 21 model. there is strong demand and we

aren't slowing down on improving the deficiencies of 21 either. it is a parallel path and we feel strongly about both technologies. ed: it is interesting at panasonic you are more focused on the use of ai internally, as a technology, as part of the production process and supply chain. what does that mean for you? megan: ai is definitely big here. i was overwhelmed how everyone is talking about ai. when you think about it, ai has been around. what we call smart factory is a strong part of what we do. for the operation in kansas and reno and also in other areas too. smart factory is leveraging the generative ai to make sure that we can make collective decisions, real-time decisions, and make the work more effective. at the same time, safer. ed: your technology partners on

this include palantir, and interesting data relationship, and aws that has a strong presence here. what are you doing with these two companies in particular? megan: making sure that smart factory is the focus. we are excited about that partnership. ed: you have been coming to ces a while. what is your read speaking to customers, governor affect government officials thomas -- government officials, people you bump into, about 2024? what do you think will happen this year relevant to your world including everything from consumer electronics batteries? megan: we are partnering with cta this year. it is the 51st year of participation nonstop. in north america we pivoted from consumer-electronics company. we are still a very strong consumer-electronics space.

we vertically integrated the technology into all the other areas. we are very happy with the evolution and partnership we are working with with cta so it is not just consumer products with electronics and technologies but we are in other solution areas including ev and it's wonderful that the platform is extending and there is more potential in the future. we have a device car in our booth that shows all the technology we have that we are leveraging in automotive. i hope you come look at it. ed: i will. i think i am right in saying you just bumped into your friend barbara humpton on the staircase. tell us about the supportive regulatory environments. how do you view the availability of funding from government to build in the u.s.? megan: financially, it makes a lot of sense for us. we are grateful for the government for making that push.

we have been in reno for 10 years. we have been committed for that long term. it's wonderful for us to talk about the u.s. government backup to our headquarters in japan. we feel like we have a validation from the government about the commitment and investment. it feels great. ira has been wonderful for us to go faster and better. ed: megan myungwon lee the panasonic north america ceo here at ces las vegas. caroline: coming up, we talk about the state of artificial intelligence and whether we are in nai double with wesley chan the cofounder of spv ventures. this is bloomberg technology. this is bloomberg technology.

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caroline, and after a banner year for ai fundraising and a tough year for everyone else what can we expect for ai in 2020 four in fundraising and valuation? joining us is wesley chan a cofounder and managing partner at fpv ventures. it seems like you are feeling contrary and on ai valuation now. wesley: we are watching it grow like crazy and keeping out just a bit to let the valuation fall back down to earth. we are huge fans of ai. we have and for -- been investing in ai since i started my career at google venture almost 15 years ago. we are seeing a lot of similarities to wear that crypto hype was going on in the.com boom. so we want to be careful given

the charities and children's hospital money we work with and manage. caroline: the portfolio companies you have that stand out with heady valuations, have these companies -- have you talked to the founders about ai? are they already interweaving it in the business and they just don't need to shout about it on the way other tar? wesley: canva launched magic features where you can type in, i want to make a presentation about bloomberg and they use ai to help you auto generate a lot of it. so, they are using it quietly with features that benefit users versus just ai for the sake of ai. a lot of companies are doing that today. they aren't going crazy about it. they are using it to make the product a lot easier to use. that is in the promise of ai. it makes things so much easier

and automated and as canva calls it, magical. we are seeing enterprise adopt ai a lot because of the power and utility a brings to the table. but we are not just investing in companies because they do ai for the sake of it, what are we -- what we are seeing a lot in have to valuations in the venture market now. caroline: where are you investing? what makes a founder stand out for you? wesley: we invest in mission driven founders. like larry and sergei. i got to work with sergei as his chief of staff. they have these amazing views on what the world is. we call them unique insights. they say, if we do what we will go to the world will change read i remember sergei giving me his 100 year plan. then look at cliff and mila campbell. everybody thought cliff and mel in australia were crazy, the founders of canva. and 10 years later almost every person under 35 is using canva

to design and build presentations. they have 100 year plans and a vision of how the world changes when they launched their product and everything goes to where they want to build. caroline: i am sure that when you are a mission driven founder you are often one of the ones to remain independent, that wants to see the full legacy of your business. ultimately, ipo. a lazy association was made between fig month and canva, but that deal did not happen. how does canva see an exit? >> it is one of the companies were cliff and mel wants to build a product of the world wants to use and the world changes. it's not about ai. it's about, how do i make my life better? kids are using it for homework. adults are using it for presentation or marketing materials. it's ubiquitous. when you build something that

useful, the world changes. it was the same at google at the beginning. kind of cute, a search engine with a blank white page and two buttons for you today, google is ubiquitous. the world changes when you build something better than everyone else that makes the user experience so much better. that's what the founders we invest in truly understand. caroline: there have been one or two kids party invitations designed with canva in my household. i am interested in what the rest of the market has to look like now. if you see a venture, and ipo, will that happen in 2024? wesley: a lot of bankers have told me it might reopen at the end of 2024. being on 10 plus boards we have the conversation a lot in the boardroom. i think it wont happen this year. the ipo market for the most part has shut down. there were not a lot of people that want to test the market or test the waters unless they really have to. there is some artificial reason.

like their employee stock options coming to fruition or something where they have to go to ipo. we have seen the last couple, top companies like instacart that did not perform as well. i think most top companies are just waiting for ipo in 2025 or later. 2024 will be a brutal year for ipo, a challenge. because of that a lot of growth investors do not see returns or exits for their companies. they are not investing in or deploying capital. it will be a brutal year for venture, growth, and ipo. caroline: i might be able to pick winners when everyone else is not laying down. at the start of the conversation you associated the ai hype with some of the boom and bust we have seen of late, crypto being one of them. at the moment everyone is exuberant around crypto again as we anticipate the sec signing off on the spot bitcoin etf. what you make of that space? are you getting pictures? is it something you will ever be touching? wesley: a lot of people with

crypto venture funds have become generate ai venture funds. we have seen highs in bitcoin. 48,000 u.s. dollars at the beginning of the year. people are moving money into things they think have an inflationary hold. given some of the crazy currency transitions we are seeing in a country like argentina or maybe even china. a lot of that is turned on by speculation still. i am very careful that i don't invest in the hype or speculation. at some point the bubble pops. we saw it in the.com boom, grocery, and scooters. we saw it at groep know a couple years now. we are very careful about making companies that can stand the test of kind -- test of time and compound and row and create products people want and grow because of that. those are some companies that i see first hand at google and kansas. caroline: always great catching up with you wesley chan at fpv

ventures. coming up, more amazon layoffs on the way. where the shopping giant it setting guys next to cut costs. meanwhile, we are watching shares of apple. interesting it has been under pressure amid an analyst downgrade. notable it returned to the list of 100 best places to work after falling off a little last year. the iphone maker was number 39 on the list from glassdoor, a website where employees submit anonymous workplace reviews. glassdoor has conducted the survey since 2009. this is bloomberg technology. the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first.

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>> still early days about what applications will be killer for smartphones. the hardware is enabled now. euros capability in a smart phone to run ai algorithms. two areas people really care about our latency and privacy. caroline: the army ceo rene hass there on the implementation of ai in their product speaking from the ces event in las vegas. global chips rose for the first time in more than a year. data saw worldwide revenue growing to $48 billion in november, a five point 3% increase from one year earlier. that is the latest indication of a possible rebound in emerging

technology. data analysis from pelletier says they see huge demand in new ai products from israel ever since the start of their war with hamas on october 7. israel has acknowledged they used ai-based systems to identify targets in airstrikes. palantir is set to hillard -- hold a board meeting in tel aviv for the first time as a gesture of solidarity with israel. israel reached anm agreement witheta after the company failed to report acquisitions. the social media giant will pay $6.5 million in fines relating to the purchases of red kick in 20 18 and service right in 2019. amazon is seen layoffs again. flashing hundreds from its prime video and studios unit continuing a trend that began in late 2022. twitch seeing hundreds of jobs on the line. matt day joins us now. are we to be surprised by this?

that we are curtailing the area of production in particular? matt: i don't think so. especially around entertainment, there is a ton of pain now in streaming with folks reassessing how many bodies they will need for the demand for the town of three mobile -- streamable content out there. the amazon studio boss mentioned they might discontinue some things over the course of the layoffs but did not specify what those were. but the latest in what looks like cuts all over the place at amazon. they petered out. it's not tens of thousands of people like it was a year ago, but it seems ongoing. caroline: its ongoing across production elsewhere. we have seen a job cuts at disney, people curtail on their spending. netflix held spending steady in terms of new content production. it comes at the same time that amazon seems to be trying to right size twitch as well. what does that say about the future of twitch? matt: twitch has always been weird for amazon. a huge audience of people largely watching video game

streaming is really hard to monetize. they are very expensively beaming video content around the world, but it's not a great user base for ads. they tend to balk when they see a role for coke in the middle of a videogame stream. amazon about 10 years after buying twitch is still struggling to make the thing profitable. caroline: do you think we are done? is this just in the future? smaller role in job cuts? matt: hard to say. if you talk to amazon employees they point out that the company never said all clear, so to speak, after their big job cuts of two falls ago and last spring. they just keep stacking up. there were two this week. they shut down amp. the music service, the podcast service. more cuts on the devices group and alexa last year as well. they keep coming. it looks like a drumbeat for a company that for more than a decade did not do that at all.

caroline: thank you for joining us on the latest out of amazon. that doesn't for this edition of bloomberg technology. check out our podcast on the terminal, apple, spotify, wherever you get your content when it comes to audio. more on cs to come. this is bloomberg technology. when you automate sales tax with avalara, you don't have to worry about things like changing tax rates or filing returns. avalarahhh ahhh

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