>> from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide, this is "bloomberg technology" with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. ♪ caroline: i am caroline hyde at bloomberg's world headquarters in new york. ed: and i am at ludlow in new york -- in san francisco. caroline: what does it mean for the 1.7 trillion dollars digital asset sector?

we will discuss? ed: hertz selling over 20,000 letter vehicles after overestimating demand. caroline: the tech industry is kicking off the new year with some significant job cuts. he will break it down and have more throughout the hour -- we will break it down and have more throughout the hour. we want to get to the market and show you that this is a macro story today. we saw a reversal of some of the crypto names that we will dig into any moment but we are off by one percentage point on the nasdaq. 10 year yields have been unaffected. the bond market reacted less. i'm looking at bloomberg dollar index that redid react to that cpi print -- that did react to that cpi print. let's have a look at what is happening in the asset of choice for today and yesterday,

bitcoin. it has had a volatile trading session, almost eclipsing that $49,000 handle. $50 billion to $100 billion of inflows the first year. currently just trading up 2/10 of a percent. maybe it is all priced in. ed: what a chart. that volatility is reflected in the equity markets as well. these are the publicly traded crypto really did stocks and in the premarket, there was some green on that board. i would say that hot cpi print is the main factor in what changed course and direction for equities. you see names like coinbase and robinhood that -- pretty significantly lower and other crypto related stocks as well. marathon, microstrategy pinning a lot of their fortunes on the future trajectory of bitcoin.

time for some team coverage. let's bring in sonali basak and katie. where do we look now for reaction to the news? we are showing the equity markets. there is also some flows data that shows us the story. >> specifically you want to look at the trading volume. we will get that flow data tomorrow, theoretically but take a look at who is winning the volume race so far. you have blackrock out in front. all told you've had 32 million shares trade over for blackrock and that comes in around 26 million shares. all 11 of these etf's together have traded around almost two point $9 billion so far, so really a lot of volume on day one. for gbd see, this is a lot of speculation, the first time they have had a chance to sell, so

bloomberg intelligence has theorized that maybe the selling pressure for blackrock, there is a lot of speculation. whether you see that come through in the trading volumes, i asked jay jacobs, about an hour and a half ago, did not get much of an answer but a lot of theories as to what is behind this volume. >> and there is the -- caroline: there is the mechanics and the infrastructure and wondering if this is really the turning point. whether suddenly people are now on their iras and pension funds not just sprinkling in a little bit of bitcoin. looking at the price action, do we think it is? >> you did see trading volumes in the billions but when you look at the price action in bitcoin, it reached 49,000 dollars very briefly on the day but it is back well below or fluctuating around $46,000. it has not been a sell the news moment or a by the news moment. -- buy the news moment.

in some of the bitcoin related stocks, coinbase down more than 6%. a big question is what this means for exchanges, let alone bitcoin itself. i will point to one place you are seeing some action, ethereum. that is interesting because people believe that if you see a bitcoin related spot etf, then the issuers if they are successful will move to other products. will they move to a theory i'm? one thing that is interesting is the sec statement, which was very clear that this was for one asset and one asset alone, bitcoin and it was not an endorsement of the bitcoin world. you are seeing sparks of exuberance in ethereum you are not seeing in bitcoin at this moment that is it founded? caroline: and also, sparks of exuberance, excitement when it comes to an ipo pipeline related to crypto asset circles. >> a long time coming.

you may remember that this was a company that tried to go public that was overseen by bob diamond's company. since that moment, we've been waiting many months to see what the exist or that she would be. they had a tough road to get here with money tied up in the silicon valley bank debacle and they have been able to hold their model into this ipo. the stablecoin world is quickly changing with regulation around it and at the same time, is there a market for crypto related stablecoin stocks? it is a different flavor of crypto asset at a time when the ipo market is supposedly opening up. it'll be an interesting year. ed: katie, the news of the approval roque just before i went on stage at ces and on stage i said this is the breaking news and there was a small ripple of applause, and i emphasize small. after that, the conversation i

had with so many people said how many got approved? do we need 11 of these things? >> know, that is the answer i've gotten pretty much from everyone, issuers included, not specifically on the record but the thinking is this is a very crowded field and the question becomes how do you differentiate yourself if everyone is going at once and we all hold the same thing? the answer has been to cut fees and then cut fees again. these fees are extremely low. you had bitwise at the bottom, charging 20 basis points. you have gptc charging 1.5% when it comes to where we are, a year from now, what the assets and these 11 funds look like, the expectation is that this will be a winner take most environment. you will have a handful of these funds holding the bulk of the assets and to be interesting to see if we actually whittled down some of these funds.

-- whittle down some of these funds. caroline: thank you so much. we can go to one of those key issuers. roger is with us. franklin templeton head of digital assets. remind us of the fees, remind us of why you think you are going to survive the at least 11 that we have. >> i would point to bloomberg's own research, if people need to go to bloomberg to see how these line-up. you need to look at the longer term of where this goes. this is been a very dynamic issuing environment over the past several days and weeks and we expect that the dust will settle in the+ ahead -- in the period ahead. this is a page that has been turned in this chapter. accessibility to bitcoin outside of a digital wallet inside of a more crypto needed -- what the story his -- is, it is why we

use the ticker symbol ezbc. ed: the accessibility part is the most interesting to me. who is taking advantage of this product? have you specific evidence of whether it is legacy investment managers managing people's 401(k)s right through to the big institutional's that are active this morning? roger: i think again, the story that is happening today is something that will change and pivot as we get deeper into 2024. the idea that there is a trusted brokerage account with decades and decades of regulatory oversight, and as a result of that, the brokerage account has been a trusted infrastructure within the overall capital markets for clients and holdings. to bring a bitcoin exposure, which is really a story about a

rapidly evolving network economy, whether it is bitcoin as a single-purpose network or whether it is ethereum and an array of other public watching networks that are going to be used as utilities for this data-driven economy when forward, i think that is a thematic story that is going on, so we want to point toward the longer-term thematic story but it is accessibility that opens up not just for individual investors it also institutions that are looking for trusted infrastructure and providers to bring these innovations. caroline: what is interesting is in the same breath as signing off on these etf's, the sec chair went on to say that investors should remain cautious about the risks associated with bitcoins and buttocks whose value is tied to crypto. you are someone who's been at the cutting edge of this, trying to build infrastructure, deciding how to involve digital

assets more broadly with real-world assets. what more is needed within the infrastructure space to make it that the sec chair does not think you should still be cautious? roger: i think the fcc chairman is right to talk about caution. those of us who have been managing assets for clients for dozens of years, there is volatility inside of this. you lead the story with the volatility. we said -- we still think that is going to exist. the question is whether you are bored them for that volatility. it has certainly shown that investors are on for taking that volatility and risk and putting these alongside other assets to generate the best outcomes going forward, but you are correct. we've been working closely with the sec as it relates to technology and using them as infrastructure inside of already traditional assets to increase utility for underlying savers. we see the caution, and we

understand it, and we are alongside of them for counseling clients. ed: roger, the harbin coming out this year is a point of discussion in parallel with this etf roller coaster. have you modeled and planned for that, and how will that impact the product in your business? roger: if past performance is not indicative of future results, if you look at previous cycles, there seems to be a technical situation. we all know bitcoin is a constrained asset, only a certain amount of supply and when that begins to bit -- be diminished, especially alongside this environment of increased accessibility, it might create interesting technical dynamics flowing either way, but i think as you see in the market, it is pointing toward what other public blockchain network infrastructure opportunities

that investors might be able to tap into, so you see that price action diverge between ethereum and bitcoin. ed: a timely skin in the game conversation. roger bayston, franklin templeton, thank you so much. breaking news crossing the terminal in the last few moments. the is formally investigating boeing over the 737-nine max incident over the weekend. the faa said in a post that this incident should never have happened and it cannot happen again. later in that statement, it flags boeing's manufacturing practices needing to comply with high safety standards that they are legally accountable to meet, and they have attached a formal letter on that investigation. the shares you just saw have been under pressure anyway. a reminder that what happened on that alaskan flight over the weekend is that a plug in the rear of that plane detached midflight, and now the faa says

that there is a formal investigation relating to that incident. caroline: we will stay on that story and others that broke earlier today. coming up, the hertz decision to reverse course on its push for electric vehicles, looking to offload 20,000 electric vehicles. we will dig into it in a moment. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

ed: in a major reversal after the a large purchase of tesla vehicles, hertz announces they are going to sell 20,000 electric vehicles, and return to buy gas powered cars. joining us now,, --

this is a far cry from the plan that they were going to buy almost 350,000 vehicles a crossed has low, gm and polestar. now they are trying to get rid of them. has hertz said why? >> the same thing they said in the third quarter only worse so. elon musk cut the prices by 30% on most models. that means the resale value of tesla vehicles out on the market, including those that hertz is carrying. they had to take a charge for the disposition cost. they also have higher repair costs for these vehicles. that was all hurting earnings. they said they missed wall street estimates in the third quarter because of that. when you look at that, they had to do something because ev prices are still challenging. ev sales, new vehicle sales are

growing at a slower pace. that has an impact on pricing in the used car market as well. they had to make an adjustment. it also means down the line, they are going to buy fewer vehicles from gm and polestar. if they do buy 500,000 vehicles, it'll be over a much longer time. there is a lot of not good for everyone here because tesla will see pricing pressure. people who own teslas will see their resale value go down. for car companies like gm and others who have been hoping to use corporate fleet sales and rentals as a way to buttress demand as consumers maybe scratch their heads about ev's, that is not going to be an easy outlook for sales either. it is a big bump in the road for ev's and a decent ripple effect. caroline: the context comes as well with a story that was written from cox automotive, showing that the demand for ev's

isn't picking up pace, particularly it feels as though 1.5 percent growth was eked out in the final quarter of last year and that has been going slower and slower. how much is the signaling that ultimately the user is not ready for an ev experience? >> there is a lot going on. ev sales are growing. year-over-year, the numbers are pretty big and last year was a record year. the third quarter to fourth-quarter number, i thought it was significant. 1.3%. there are seasonal factors but third quarter is usually a pretty strong quarter for auto sales because it is model year turnover and a lot of new vehicles come out. fourth quarter, also very strong because you have things like december to remember from toyota and things that drive people to show rooms. particularly strong quarters for vehicle sales and ev sales only grew 1.3% after growing 6% in the second quarter and 14%

before the. it is still growth in the market but definitely slowing down. people are wondering where they will charge them when they are out and about, and there are still not many affordable ev's on the market, despite the price cuts. the nissan leaf does not go very far on a charge. there is a lot that needs to be sold to consumers to get them to continue snapping up ev's in big numbers. caroline: well said, david welch. we thank you so much on that big about-face. let's get you more breaking news in the banking sector. morgan stanley is going to be paying under $300 million to settle that block trade probe. we will break it all down. the investigation was surrendering -- was surrounding what exactly? >> this was all in the wake of the -- trades and morgan stanley lost some talent over this over concerns about how some of these traits were handled.

now what we are seeing is there are close to an agreement. there are sources telling us that the charges could be between $200 billion and $300 billion and while that may sound like a lot, it's a lot less than expected. it is one of the investigations that morgan stanley wanted to clear up in its succession plan as they moved the baton from james over to ted. the penalty will be divvied up between the justice department and the security and exchange commission -- securities and exchange commission and it will not include criminal charges against the bank. this would be in the coming days according to sources, it would turn a page for morgan stanley that has been in overhang in the last several months. ed: cinelli basket -- sonali basak with the breaking news. coming up, silicon valley is feeling pressure to cut costs as google and amazon lay off of workers to start the year. details next.

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(we did it) start today at godaddy.com ed: ok. first up, an advisor to the european union court of justice says google should not win their appeal against the $2.6 billion antitrust fine. eu competition regulators slapped google with the fine in 2017 for favoring its own shopping service over those of its rivals. staying with eu regulation, concerns over amazon's $1.4 billion deal to buy the remote maker are coming to light after the tech giant missed a wednesday deadline to file remedies to antitrust enforcers. the competition commission has set a paris deadline to decide whether to approve or block the deal. 2024 is starting with an uptick in tech layoffs to.

is the latest company to cut staff, laying off hundreds of workers from the hardware, engineering and tool assistance teams. caroline: a bit of deja vu. summing we can dive into that story with is brody ford, who is taking the temperature and mood of silicon valley right now and it feels a bit dour right now. brody: deja vu is right. i remember being here a year ago, hearing about tens of thousands of layoffs. this isn't quite that. we are talking tens of thousands, we are talking hundreds which is still disruptive for individuals and a sign of the tech economy not being fully back to the big growth days. it is a cautious sign of the tech industry, that right now if you are working in a division that is not growing rapidly, you might still be on the chopping block. caroline: what about creative areas? the whole generative ai boom kind of helped the silver lining

of the cloud of job losses but ends up being a cloud if you are worrying about your job. maybe generative ai's going to take it? brody: we saw amazon studios, twitch and then duolingo, the folks who were cut were in the content creation division. it's hard not to notice a trend of all of his consumer facing aspects. i've spoken to sources -- i've spoken to sources that duolingo who were told, ai can do your job. we have not seen that level of direct replacement and the fact that those returning to trickle in -- those are starting to trickle in, it is not a warming sign. caroline: we are going to be staying on that particular story throughout. thank you brody ford. meanwhile, we have more coming up. ed: coming up, we continue our coverage of the bitcoin spot etf approval roller coaster. we are going to sit down with the -- ceo -- strike ceo.

a very vocal voice in the world of social media, when it comes to the events of recent days. a big conversation coming up. from new york city and san francisco, this is "bloomberg technology." ♪ thanks to avalara, we can calculate sales tax automatically. avalarahhhhhh what if tax rates change? ahhhhhh filing sales tax returns? ahhhhhh business license guidance? ahhhhhh -cross-border sales? -ahhhhhh -item classification? -ahhhhhh does it connect with acc...? ahhhhhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhh

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>> welcome back to bloombergtechtv ed ludlow here -- bloomberg technology. ed ludlow here. >> i am looking at what is happening in nasdaq because the cpi print was all-important for those who are still trying to decide where the federal reserve goes. there is another print ahead for the federal reserve but still, the fact that cpi is running slightly hot does mean that maybe that's are being taken off the table for as soon the march rate cut.

bloomberg dollar index increases because of those anticipations that may be the cuts will not come as soon anticipated. bitcoin, 11 etf's go live today. we are off by .2% but it has been a volatile ride, at one point at 49,000. look at some of the individual movers on the day and some of the market capitalizations we are focusing in on because check this out, we are looking at microsoft in the blue about to eclipse the market capitalization again of apple in the white. apple getting numerous sort of sell ratings or going neutral on the stock, worrying about china so market cap has taken a hit. move on to some of the individual movers when it comes to the world of crypto because there has been this perhaps sell the fact kind of a move or ultimately digest the amount we have run up in these stocks ahead of the all-important spot etf. microstrategy of course on its

balance sheet, up by 5%. clean spark off by almost 10% so there has been a bit of weakness in today's trading. ed: let's get some more reaction. yesterday, i caught up with the nasdaq ceo at ces in las vegas just as the sec approval of bitcoin etf's was announced. this into her reaction on what she has to say in particular about future regulation. >> what it really tells you is that there has been some maturing of the bitcoin markets to the point where the sec has now said we approve these new vehicles that allow retail investors to access bitcoin. they don't have to buy underlying bitcoin but they can have an opinion about the trends in bitcoin and they can express themselves in a regulated market which of course is nasdaq. these instruments are highly liquid and it makes it so they have ready access to and investable vehicle in the space so we are excited to be the partner.

>> there are cerebral debates about bitcoin in particular about whether it is a risk asset, asset class, and if it is not, is it a store value? is the nasdaq approach that this development kind of moves towards a deeper focus on crypto as an asset class? >> you have to look at it differently. we have etf that reflect lots of different instruments and asset classes, whether it is commodities, equities, bonds, other forms of otc instruments. as long as they are liquid and have a solid underlying price every mechanism which the sec is saying the bitcoin etf, the underlying market provides price discovery for the etf and they are approving the etf so that is interesting signal -- an interesting signal. we have $500 billion in our own indexes and then to be the listing exchange for those index

products that allow investors to invest in all sorts of tradable instruments including bitcoin. >> final question on this subject. let's go back 24 hours almost. an sec x account -- ex-posts. we have learned it was a hack. we our looking into it. twitter explained what they believe happened just as the ceo of the leading exchange just explained to me what it was like for you, that madness of yesterday, given our bloomberg audience had a very similar experience. >> i think that the he hears in the markets really came from looking at anything that was related to bitcoin is also the underlying bitcoin market and then any sort of public companies that had that underlying asset class as part of their business but i think for us, it is a matter of making sure we think about more generally what protections we put in place as more technology

is used to drive trading but also as more information is being used in real-time time to direct people and investors so we look at it more from a protection perspective. we want to think about as ai the ftc and cftc have said they are interested in that. ed: that was the nasdaq cheer president and ceo. >> we have got to keep on talking crypto. digital wallet built on bitcoins networks. important offering for the transactions on bitcoin that much faster, easier, smoother. i'm interested because you have been someone who has been developing this space, thinking about crypto and bitcoin in particular for a decade. it took a decade for us to get to this point. we saw the brothers, out and want to get into this spot bitcoin etf scenario.

what does it mean to you? >> man, well first of all, happy bitcoin etf day. thank you for having me. i think it is a huge deal. i view bitcoin as the best expression of fiat they basement -- debasement. as they print more of their own currencies and devalue it like devaluing the u.s. dollar, bitcoin is the best expression of that and you can see that most in the rise of bitcoin's price and it's because of two things, it is the scarcest asset on the planet, and it's one of the only asset classes in the world that demands energy to acquire it so those two things make it the best expression of what is increasingly the biggest problem that money managers have which is how to take the other side of governments inevitably printing their way out of all this data. the fact that wall street said, you know what, those -- they got loudmouths but we got to get in on this because the government looks like they are going to stop qt and qe and we need to

own an asset that protects us and i think that is bitcoin so on the mental day. let's go. ed: jack, do we need 11 different etf's to do that? jack: you know who knows best, ed? the free market. i think it's important that wall street allows for that. the market will tell us. my personal opinion, probably not. that seems a bit excessive but i am here for it and i love it so we will see the free market, i think, will fix a lot of this stuff. i'm not entirely sure how wall street and their settlement is going to handle the apex predator that is bitcoin. i think it will be an interesting journey to see how many of these things are left and how they are able to handle an asset that does not have off hours, that does not have supply that you can go print more of or you can call the ceo and tell him to calm down. it is a new beast for wall street that they talk a big game so hopefully, they are plenty

capable. ed: when i posted on x that you are coming on the show and you replied with your it takes predator's thesis, lots of people had pretty cerebral questions for you, one of which is "has bitcoin lost its original eco-spy being accessible -- ethos by being accessible?" jack: no. the most important principle of bitcoin is that you are not required to centralize your custody or to conform to a monetary policy that is outside of your control. anyone can still do whatever they want with bitcoin. i have got some stored right in the other room and there's nothing blackrock could do about that but if someone wanted to use bitcoin with blackrock, go for it. that doesn't break any principle or change any type of culture set whatsoever. i think it is monumental about

the world has access to a monetary supply where it cannot be inflated and it absolutely demands energy to hold it. those two things protect you against inflation and the devaluing of currency so if people want to get that through blackrock, i would think it's a little expensive, not for everybody, go for it. i don't think it is anyone's position to say you cannot -- you can or cannot do a bitcoin. dani: you have strike -- >> you have strike private. you help high net worth individuals who did want exposure to bitcoin before this suddenly incredibly easy etf was available. is that in any way going to implicate your business? jack: we are seeing all-time high numbers even back to december. this is a trend leading up to this event and the way we think about ourselves is we are one of the best in the world at bitcoin if not the best and what that means is technology, licensing, global access. when it comes to bitcoin, this new thing, we are one of the best in the world at that so

wall street may take a sector of high net worth institutional clients that we were never going to serve anyway but it lifts all boats. this is an entirely new monetary network and we are one of the best in the world at it so we are stoked to see the attention, the validity, the maturity, and we are here for it. i think in five to 10 years, being one of the best in the world at this thing is going to be a good business and that is why i am the founder and ceo of it so we are happy. >> in the u.s., bitcoin has been seen basically as an asset to be able to bet on ultimately whether or not it is a store of value. people have been wanting to gain exposure to see it as volatile, to see the gains but elsewhere in the world, they do use it as a way of ultimately being able to transact, use it as some sort of currency. one does that potentially start to seep into the u.s.? at the moment, we have seen the

validity of it as an asset but not as a currency here in the united states. jack: to be honest, i'm not sure it totally matters i do not own any dollars anymore. i am sick of them. i think the real risk is owning dollars because all they do is go down. and traditionally, the game was, shoot, what do i own? the government will keep printing currency. do i try and own a house? do i try and own an index of stocks? do i try and find out what jeff bezos is up to? bitcoin is the most accessible, most simple expression of this problem. how many people in the world have to deal with fiat debasement? give me a number. what do you think? ed: you answer that. jack: 8 billion. all of us. everyone is subject to a fiat currency that is devaluing. if you want to use it for payments, if you want to start

-- for example, i live on credit cards. the u.s. banking system gives me a 30 day revolving door of credit where i can spend dollars without having to own those pieces of trash so i sit at bitcoin all day and spend on credit so to me, i don't know. does that answer your question? it doesn't totally matter. ed: we have five seconds. where does bitcoin peak in 2024? jack: i think we see new highs this year and i think this thing lands between 250 k to one million come around the 500 thousand dollar range. i think there is a lot of money printing that the government is going to have to do and this is the fastest course. ed: thank you very much for your time always on this program. we will check in on the health of the industry when it comes to health care and venture capital, coming up next. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

>> jp morgan health care conference in full swing in sf. let's discuss the health tech space. more than $5 billion of assets, focusing on emerging science and tech companies. happy new year. i was in las vegas at ces and jp morgan happening at the same time in san francisco. is there one single defining piece of gossip that went on in the hallways of the hotel? >> more than one. that is for sure. the mood was cautiously

optimistic. lots of excitement around the acronyms, aia, glp-1, and the intersection of bio and digital in 2024. >> was their exuberance around writing checks to these venn diagram that might not overlap as much as might be anticipated? i'm interested as to whether people wanted to go in and still support these companies or whether it is a story of having to do more with less? deena exuberance is not quite the word i would use but i would say there was interest and excitement. jpm is more focused on the public side of things but of course that does have a direct impact on privates and there is sort of a private track at the conference. lots of announcements around mna on the farm outside, around big partnerships with ai and health systems so you can expect investors to continue to be excited about those particular intersections on the biocide as well as health care as they look towards early-stage funding.

>> there has been a spate of mna happening to kick off the new year but also a questioning going on in the public markets when it comes to big tech, the magnificent seven. there must have been a lot of discussion about what the public markets means for the private market and about ipo's. how are you seeing that he evolved for 2024? deena that was the question i probably got asked the most from companies and other investors. if i could look into a crystal ball, what does 2024 look like for ipo's? it looks a little better than it did in 2023. i don't think it will be a watershed moment yet for public markets. we will start to see more excitement and perhaps 2025 is the year where we start to return to what we saw in previous years but i think there is some movement happening. the mna is definitely paving the path and as you heard from others on the public side, i expect there will continue to be more move and as we move toward

the second half of 2024. ed: when they raised the new fund in april, 1.1 5 billion, it was for deep tech and science focused investments. nine months on, how much of that is translated to health care, biotech, pharma? deena quite a bit. if you listened to some of the presentations at jpm, you would hear specifically that the interest from pharma on the mna side is specifically around the science, not necessarily on the financial aspects of the company at that stage. folks are looking to keep up with the glp-1 innovation that has been an absolute game changer in health care. where is the science breakthrough? that is where they have been investing for the past several decades and where we continue to invest. science on the health care side, certainly on ai, we are seeing a lot of intersections of the areas where we have traditionally invested both from

presentations at jpm from our portfolio as well as others so that is where i think there will continue to be a lot more. how can you apply foundational models to actually improve health care outcomes? how can technology change the way health care is delivered to medicaid and women's health and how can it change the way drugs are developed on the biocide? >> it is so great to have you back on the show. thank you. happy new year. happy return from maternity leave. meanwhile, coming up, victoria's secret partners up with google cloud. we will describe why and what it is going to do for the retailer. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

>> victoria's secret gets further into ai. the retailer plans to create more personalized and inclusive online shopping experiences for its global customers by leveraging google cloud generative ai. chris, i start with you because where do you want to see the impact first and foremost for victoria's secret? chris: we love to see the impact in our customer experience. we believe there is a lot we can leverage with google's ai platform to create a better

customer shopping experience. >> ai, the hype cycle, everyone discussing it, all businesses in their earnings reports, but yet the adoption in real-world has been a bit slower than the talk of the november survey for the census bureau, saying just over 4% of all businesses are actually using ai to produce services and products. how are you seeing the adoption start to ramp? >> it is ramping very quickly. we consider 2024 to be the activation year so you are seeing life experiences with retailers today using that ai platform to bring that a consumer facing experiences so brands like macy's are using our retail search today already. the home depot and kroger are already bringing these experiences to their associates, bringing more information and training so even though you may not think you have touched a generative experience from google, it is coming to you fast in 2024.

>> how does the generative experiences, how does that impact your employees in particular? there has been a little bit of fear about them getting replaced. does the focus on efficiencies impact how many people you need in customer care, for example? chris: the way we are thinking about how generative ai can help us is how it can help us on the sales floor serve customers better. when you think about the difference between a very experienced sales associate and someone who is brand-new on the sales floor, the more experienced sales associate knows much more about our products and the services that we offer, but if we could help even the brand-new associate understand the breadth of our product catalog and be able to serve customers faster and better, we would be able to convert many more of our visitors into customers so that is what we are focused on. >> when you are going through the relationships you are doing not only with victoria's secret but working with home depot,

kroger, mcdonald's, what is the most surprising way in which you have seen a business adopt, adapt, and leverage it? >> i don't know that it is surprising. everybody is really starting with those big business challenges and frictions just as chris described at victoria's secret, closing the gap in things they have jumped about, getting closer to their customers. estee lauder is an example where they want to have a deep understanding of what their customer is saying in social and in the customer-service channels so that is an example of just unique ways to get at customer insights and interactions that the technology just did not enable them to in past years. >> thank you both for running us through the relationship. vice president of industries at google cloud and chris rupp, chief customer officer at victoria's secret. thank you both. that does it for this edition of bloomberg technology. ed: check out the podcast wherever you get your

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