>> this is bloomberg technology with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. ♪ ed: i'm in san francisco and caroline hyde is off this week. this is bloomberg technology.

full coverage from the world economic forum as tech heavyweights to send on davos. we hear from sam altman, sit here in a dollar, marc benioff and many more. plus the u.s. supreme court rejects apples bid for an epic app store review. details ahead in the decision that will likely affect billions of dollars in revenue for the iphone maker. microsoft is announcing next phase of its copilot journey. we will discuss the news with the microsoft executive vice president. welcome back after a holiday weekend in the united states. this is what financial markets look like and we start with a shortened week with a lot of fed speak countering what was wall street earnings. the nasdaq 100 is basically flat, softer by one -- 0.1% but the market is looking at the fed speak and sing let's just rethink how many rate cuts or how deep the rate cuts will be in 2024. that has an impact on the technology sector and those

indices relevant. bitcoin around 43,000 u.s. dollars stabilizing from the volatility of recent weeks. the 10 year yield is higher by 10 basis points. you need to keep abreast of all the fed talk. there are three names we are zeroed in on later in the program. we'll start with tesla, now in the green and had been it significantly lower in the open. he wants to negotiate voting rights in the board. satir nadella is talking about copilot going from enterprise to the consumer. reports of more layoffs at specific parts of the company but the big story is apple. this was the market mover and given their market cap, dragging indices to the downside, the declines have been deeper. the u.s. supreme court rejecting apples appeal of an appeals court decision earlier. it's an antitrust suit which

challenges the apple store. let's bring in our chief correspondent. it's hard to understand the legalese because it's an appeal of an appeal. explain this morning's news to the audience. >> thanks for having me this morning as always. epic games, apple were in this major lawsuit a few years ago over the app store. apple one most of the lawsuit area apple one in the sense they were not a designated monopoly but there was one thing they lost on that was known as the steering division. the idea were the judge ruled that apple allowed developers to include a button and their application to point users external to the app store to complete their transactions. it's a big deal because primarily applications downloaded through the app store to the iphone and ipad have to use apples in app billing system. that takes between 15 and 30% cut. the majority of apple services

likely comes from transactions and inapt purges purchases and made for the app store. apple had been appealing that for this last several months up to the supreme court. epic had been appealing their losses in that initial trial in california to the supreme court. today, the supreme court decided they will not favor either side which means epic will not get what they want, they want apple to open up the app store and they want them to be designated as an antitrust violator and a monopoly but apples my getting what they want, their appeal has failed in the carveout for the external button purchases, we will have to wait to see apple's response to see when they will implement this and exactly how. the other tidbit is mark seven, the digital market sector was in the digital union that will require apple to open up the app store there. it's possible apple will try to

use that same technology to open up the billing in the u.s. as well where they may take another method. either way, not great news for apple this morning. or epic. ed: we had the european commission vice president on with me live last friday and her message was i meeting with tim cook that meeting happened and you know you have to comply by march 7 and she told me she was going to explain to tim cook and other ceos how they could comply. there is an iphone user consideration here, a technology consideration that if the high court puts into effect the appeals court's original decision, you as a developer of an ios app can direct the consumer elsewhere outside the ios ecosystem. explain if i'm an iphone user, what i might see going forward. >> if you are an iphone user now

let's say fortnite was told the app store and you want to buy a new character or a bundle you click that maybe it's price to $10. traditionally, you would have to use your app store credentials and pop up the app store and approve it with touch id seven dollars of that would go to do the developer and three dollars would go to apple. now when this comes into effect, that button, maybe you can go to a website to do the transaction like strike. the vast majority in that case of the revenue will then go through the developer. maybe it goes through paypal. it will mean less revenue for apple and more revenue for the developers. there is a scenario here were even if apps can point developers to collect payments outside the app store, apple could still have a method to collect from the developer. if the developer needs to write

apple a check, this is something they've done with dating apps. that is a similar role but apple is still trying to collect that money instead of charging 30%, they charged 26 or 27% and they are taking out the processing fee. is going to be very interesting to see how apple implements this. i would imagine they will implemented in the way that's most advantageous to their bottom line. ed: mark gurman leads our coverage of apple, thank you very much. a complex story that has every twist and turn. coming up, we get the macro outlook for the tech sector with a portfolio manager for the genesis technology fund and holds a lot of chip stocks but also the holder of apple shares and we will get her reaction to this big news story. from san francisco, this is bloomberg technology. ♪

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ed: let's get back to markets. on this tuesday, joining us is ericaklau. you have a $186 billion active asset manager. when i look at your portfolio, if the story of 2023 was the magnificent seven, you are closely aligned with those. one of them are -- is apple and you probably saw the news this morning on the supreme court decision to reject the apple appeal of the appeals court original decision. when you hold a stock like apple and you consider its services revenue, how do you think about

the news story this morning and tombs of the attractiveness of that name? >> thank you so much for having me. apple has been a long time holding of jenison associates. we look at the business is one that is extraordinarily sticky. companies use apple products and consumers use apple products tend to have a difficult time switching over to other platforms as a result, the sustainability of the services is incredibly attractive. if you look on the hardware side part of the business, there is more competition and there is saturation and maturity in that business. what drives our investment decision is the sustainability of that services business. ed: the other big story of the morning is fed speak. it will probably be the speak of the week. fed governor waller is front and center, basically saying the fed may need to cut rates this year

depending on inflation but there is no need to go as deep or as fast as historically a fed might have done. how does that inform your view in the technology sector? >> genison is a bottom up research house we look at companies over a longer time period with sustainability and the competitive advantage. where the critical factors that goes into our decision-making is looking at the ability of technology companies beat deflation over time and we think that will be more important than ever over the next 3-5 years as companies are able to use ai to bring down their costs and increase their productivity, to an extent we do not think is probably discounted in many share prices today. ed: two of your biggest holdings are nvidia and i believe also broadcom.

we go back to the magnificent seven discussion of last year. are those still eai ai stories in your mind? >> great question, we have owned nvidia since 2016 and broadcom about the same time. the reason for the duration of those holdings is that we look to those companies as key enablers with an artificial intelligence deployment. nvidia's more of a pure play in that arena. broadcom is a little different in the sense that it not only has ai custom part is that it makes for hyper scalars like will but also has a very strong portfolio of networking products we think are going to be essential within the ai ecosystem and beyond that, they have very strong market share and many other semiconductor businesses that may be more mature but the company has extraordinary pricing power that is sustained over the last

decade and we think will extend for the next decade is well. another name you hold as amd and it's up almost 8% currently, putting it on track for its biggest jump since early december. many have been updating their price targets on this name. i sat down with lisa su when they lost the mi-300x and boost their forecast. it's the same question -- do you see amd as an ai play or something broader? >> as you point out, md is one of the top holdings of us and the reason is not only do we think the company has a very viable and important product portfolio to address the ai opportunities, but we also look to the pc segment which may not be getting so much attention as ai does today because it's not as exciting. i think there is going to be an important multiyear upgrade

cycle to ai pc's. there amd is very well-positioned to continue to gain market share and increase average selling prices. we think the combination of those two markets along with is very strong portfolio and programmable logic devices which goes into different ad markets is going to push advanced micro devices earnings higher than expectations for the next several years. ed: i think one thing many of the chip names haven't common other than the battleground for high-performance gpu's exposure to china. there is the policy side of this where the u.s. has clear export controls and restrictions on technology to china. then there is the politics side of it and i believe one of china's premier's this morning was trying to say we need open access to technology. where you position yourself as an investor within that? >> i would say that the biggest concern we have it geison is the

strain on relations with china vis-à-vis the ability for there to be technology innovation. undoubtedly, the world is much more globally interconnected with regards to technology deployment and innovation and supply chain. with there being so much more frankly tension between the u.s. and china, this is an area that gives us a lot of concern. we still believe the pace of innovation will continue but we are monitoring the situation tightly. as one example, the biggest foundry in the world, the biggest maker of semiconductors in the world for other companies is the taiwan semiconductor. if tsmc supply chain is disrupted, that would harm the entire industry in the global economy. this is an important issue we are monitoring at genison. ed: a lot of covered ground

there, great discussion. it to have you on the program. coming up, more from davos next. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

ed: it's time for talking tech. saudi arabia sovereign wealth fund is planning to make big investments in both the semiconductor and space industries this year. the kingdom has been ramping up efforts to diversify its economy away from oil. speaking of semiconductors, chip design company has agreed to buy software to lever -- developer ansis for $34 billion in cash and stock. the deal is set to expand its customer base and slate of

products and netflix is testing a joint plan with french retailer car for in a pilot project to win more customers to its cheapest subscription come mimicking a model used by amazon to boosted streaming customers. if enough users side of the trial, it will expand the offer to its customers all across france. the world economic forum is underway in davos. the openai ceo joined us to discuss the upcoming election and the influence ai could have on jobs. >> i think there is a lot at stake in this election. elections are huge deals. i believe that america will be fine no matter what happens in this election. i believe ai will be fine no matter what happens in this election and we will have to work very hard to make it so area no one wants to sit here and hear me rant about politics.

i think there has been a real failure to sort of learned lessons about what's working for the citizens of america and what's not. >> political figures in the u.s. and around the world like donald trump who have successfully tapped into a feeling of dislocation, anger of the working class and the feeling exacerbating inequality or technology leaving people behind. is there the danger that ai furthers those trends? >> for sure, this something to think about, but one of the things that surprised us very pleasantly on the upside -- when you build technology, you say we will follow websites and you say this will go along with society and it will follow it area you get to steer it but only somewhat. some of it is just what that technology can do and this is

how people want to use it and this is what's capable of. this has been much more of a tool that was expected. it is not yet like replacing jobs. it might be in the future but it's this incredible tool for productivity. you can see people magnifying what they can do by a factor of two or five. they just couldn't do these things at all before. i think that is quite exciting, this new vision of the future that we can see only just started and we don't know how it will go we are thankful technology when this direction but this is a tool that magnifies what humans do and lets people do their jobs better and lets say i do parts of jobs and jobs will change. some jobs will totally go away but the human drives are so strong in the way society works that i think and i can't believe i'm saying this, it sounded like

an ungrammatical sentence but i think ai will get developed in the reasonable close future and it will change the world let -- much less than we all think. i maybe wrong again but that would be how i would compile it as a sentence. >> you watch the technology development have you changed your views on how significant the job dislocation and disruption will be as g.i. -- as ai comes into focus? >> you hear people say they are two or three more times productive. it turns out and i think it's true for a lot of industries that the world needs more code than we have people to write. it's not like we run out of demand where people can just do more. expectations go up but ability goes up as well. ed: that was the open ai sam altman. brett stone also caught up with

salesforce ceo marc benioff to discover the kinds of disruptive changes we can expect with ai. >> i think this idea that companies like openai or microsoft and others want to create digital people that can do all kinds of tasks we do. will they be taxed or will they be regulated, what are the dangers involved? these important questions about the same time, we want to have these incredible benefits of ai we are all experiencing, better health care, better education, augmentation. i was just in milan with gucci. they brought us into work on their call center. very excited and how do we use ai and how do we create better customer service? we don't really know what their end goal is. it's more productivity or is it just better customer relationships or higher margins, do they want to reduce staff or increase staff?

when we apply the technology we see now, what we saw was the current state of ai which is really the ability to augment human performance. these individuals were call center service agents simultaneously became sales agents, marketing agents and were able to do all these things they could not do before. that's a tremendous theme that's going on. i feel that way myself when i'm with chatgpt or copilot or whatever it is. i get that same feeling that i've got a little more capability than i had before because i'm being augmented through ai. i'm sure it's true in a lot of disciplines. it certainly is true and health care and it will be true in more things but we are on an arc and we all know that, it will start to be able to do things that

will be fundamentally a surrogate for what we all do. >> what will determine whether a company can be successful with ai or not? >> how long will it be until i come to davos to be interviewed by the bloomberg ai. that's what i want to know. >> i'm getting replaced? >> maybe. we've been doing this together for a long time, couple of decades. >> i'm not that old but ok. [laughter] coming up on i don't know, will get to this point where there's not just all of us in the room but there is an ai as well participating in this conversation and we are about to create digital sales people and digital service people in digital marketing people. ed: that whisks the salesforce ceo marc benioff explaining that my boss brad stone will be replaced by ai. let's see. coming up, microsoft is opening up its ai system to consumers and we will be joined by the

microsoft executive vice president on that. a story we are tracking, google is reportedly laying off hundreds of employees in its advertising sales team. they've been a little softer, 0.3%. this is according to a memo that insider has seen but bloomberg is not verified the report. the shares are a little softer. this is bloomberg technology. ♪ what about zocdoc? so many options. yeah, and dr. xichun even takes your sketchy insurance. xi-chun, xi-chun, xi-chun! you've got more options than you know. book now. when you automate sales tax with avalara, you don't have to worry about things like changing tax rates or filing returns. avalarahhh ahhh

ed: welcome back to bloomberg technology. a quick check on the markets -- we've had a choppy session. the nasdaq is softer by 0.3% and fed speak is a big driver of this market. fed governor waller spoken an event this morning saying there is no reason to move as quickly or cut as rapidly as in the past

in the market is rethinking its bets for how quickly and how deeply the fed may cut rates which impacts the technology sector. the other thing is fed waller using the language fed can cut this year rather than say a specific month or upcoming meeting. there are some movers but mega caps are doing some of the work to lift up the index. one of those names is microsoft which has earlier gains but we are up 0.3%. satir nadella spoke on stage and davos but microsoft is opening up its ai platform to consumers. the company is also announcing it's making the corporate version available to smaller companies and we are joined by the microsoft executive vice president for more on this.

good morning to you. this is a substantial step because you think about all of the people around the world that use some form of microsoft software in their daily life. how is copilot going to be integrated if you are an everyday technology user? >> good morning. this is a significant step. we've been on a whirlwind with microsoft copilot. we've had over 5 billion chats with people using ai in their daily lives. today we take the next step by bringing more features and expanding more capabilities for people. first in the copilot where we offer that broadly, we can enable new capabilities with a premium subscription. that gives creators and researchers and writers and analysts and programmers to have the latest ai models but also the ability to have ai within microsoft apps for the first time. they can use it in outlook or word to write documents or use it in powerpoint.

we are providing premium things like custom gpt and we will make it available to businesses of all sizes so small business can get access to copilot and microsoft 365. ed: investors have asked his these tools are fantastic, how do they help you make money alongside how you traditionally sell office tools direct to the consumer or two smaller businesses away from the enterprise business? >> there is a couple of different ways. first and foremost, it's early in the stages. the biggest software market is the online advertising business, the search business and we've clearly seen with ai and copilot that that is changing and we are seeing more people come to use our services whether it's copilot or microsoft edge for bing. we are growing shares of the

advertising market is a growing opportunity and today with copilot pro, we are able to unlock and enhance ai capabilities in our microsoft 365 subscription of now -- of which we now have over 370 million people. we have a way to grow through a variety of different business models and help people in their lives be more creative. ed: i think about the education side of this. there are people that will have always used excel or word in the course of their daily life or their business. we kind of make the assumption that all of us will find a copilot to intuitive. i wondered if your experience at microsoft is that that is the case. how quickly do you think it will be adopted by users and you think they understand how it is? >> that's a great question. we are clearly in the early days so in some cases, for some people is immediately intuitive like people he used to -- learn

to use two thumbs and for others it takes more time to pick it up. in general, it is quite intuitive. the fact that you could use plain english, natural language. if you are on your phone, you can speak to it and start to ask it questions and quickly you can start to find some of the magic and once you find it, it's pretty incredible. i've had a bunch of examples where i've been able to take my son to get an mri for his shoulder and i didn't understand all of it and they put it into our copilot and came back in plain english and i was -- and it was able to help create the design of an image to do a remodel on the house. that made that instantaneous. as you find the magical scenarios, you naturally want to seek it out. it's like the early days of search where people didn't know how to search and people are quite facile. ed: i'm interested in the small business part of this equation. we are debating if we will have

a recession and what is the help of the small and medium-sized business particular in north america? it can be a big decision to invest in a piece of software or a piece of infrastructure. howdy see that rollout withsme's and with the feedback been? >> that's a great question. the history of the world's two things that drive growth, population growth and productivity enhancement. that will drive gdp. for growth here, the ability to have ai within microsoft office apps which is the with how businesses operate, we think there is great opportunity there and great benefits. what we seen so far with copilot for enterprise customers is they are saving about half an hour a week to an hour and that's so valuable. 70% of them say they would never go back. i believe we can do that here in today's announcement is so

profound because of all businesses, 99 .9% of them are small businesses. we really see an opportunity here and it can help a lot with some of the world issues because they think the productivity will lead to more gdp growth for those who can access the technology. ed: i'm looking at my screen on the terminal. all of the world's most valuable companies listed. number one right now is microsoft and number two is apple, something that happened friday from a market cap perspective. it was something we were waiting for. it's been a ride over the last 12 months, the story from microsoft driven by ai. i wondered if i can get your reaction to microsoft being the most valuable company in the world and why you think that happened. >> i think the first thing is we are humble about the opportunity in front of us on the work we have to do to meet customer needs. more than anything, we are

focused on what this magical opportunity is for ai and that's has led to a think people seeing the opportunity that this company can do. we are very focused on trying to make that happen. i think ai will be one of the most empowering tools any of us get to use in our lives, bigger than the phone, bigger than the internet and bigger than the pc. we are quite excited about what we can do as we build on some of the announcements we have today. ed: the microsoft executive vice president, great to catch up and. happy new year to you let's head back to davos. brad stone has a conversation about the relationship between microsoft and openai in the aftermath of what was a tumultuous november for the ai company. >> you don't go into any partnership, there is

independence, they are two different companies and they are answerable to two different sets of stakeholders with different interests. you have to then create a commercial partnership and it that is mutually beneficial. that's why the partnerships you enter and were one side is trying to take advantage of the other is not stable. if two partners can and i go back to the history of enterprise value that was created with partnerships across my career at microsoft, i think you have to -- i feel very good about the construct we have. i feel also very capable of controlling our own destiny. it's not that we are single threaded with azure. this is not even about openai. it's about a reflection of what our customers want. every customer that comes to azure, it's not about one model. we care about having the best frontier model which happens to

be gpt four. we also have other models and services inside of azure. we have the best slm from microsoft. there will be diversity of capability and models we will have that we will invest in but we will partner deeply with openai. >> what is the right operating model for a company like openai? it's currently a cap for-profit company owned by a nonprofit, very unorthodox arrangement and probably contributed to some of the drama and instability in november. have they figured it out yet? are you comfortable you have a partner with a stable operating model? >> he needs to answer that question and his board does and i'm sure they are working through it. i always say this is we invested and we partnered when they were whatever they were and whatever

they are today in terms of being a profit or nonprofit. i am comfortable. i have no issues with any structure. what we want is good stability as i said, i'm not even interested in a board seat or we don't need control. we just want to have a good commercial partnership. we want to be investors in the entity in the way they're structured. what i would like is good governance and real stability, that's it. ed: that wassatir nadella from micro center. the talk of the town and davos is underway we will have more. we will look at the investing side and startups and private markets. that's coming up next. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

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>> what we are doing is we are addressing some of the most profound social challenges with ai in ways that are transformative. to give you a couple of examples, i think one of the extraordinary places for all of us is health care. part of the reason is it's the ability with ai to aggregate so much data that you can actually have a level of diagnosis that is better than what specialists can do. ed: that was the alphabet president. she was commenting on the future of ai in the conversation with david rubenstein a bloomberg house in davos.

let's talk more about the impact of ai. we have a partner from xl. we have swapped places in a way. you usually hear you are in new york city. >> your hosting main your lovely studios so thank you for having me. ed: the question is always are we overhyping all of this? by 10 a.m. pacific time, i have said the words ai 1000 times. your thesis is based on the opposite, that we are not overhyping this at all. >> i think that's right. from our perspective, it's under height which is hard to imagine with how many times sitting here in the studio before the segment, i have heard ai countless times. our perspective is it's worthy of that attention because it's just that transformational and it will have an enormous impact

on the economy and productivity that's why we are so excited to see what's possible and be investing in this category of the earliest stage. ed: when an event like davos is on, you have microsoft and google and sam altman of openai. there is still an argument that at least leadership in the field of artificial intelligence is dominated by the big few so there is a question about some of the names we are showing now. >> access to this technology is only getting easier and easier. over the past year, we watched as some of the building blocks were more rudimentary. now the interface to engage with it is getting easier and easier. i think that's an incredible time for startups to be building

in this space. i don't think it's something that only the big guys have the opportunity. i think there is a lot of opportunity for the small ones. one of the names on the board is scale which is a company we invested in back in 2016. it's the data engine for every large language model out there. that was an incredibly small team a few years ago and now it's in a norma's business that is fundamental to this space. there is definitely opportunity for new businesses in this category. ed: what i find interesting about those living in the spaces their capital needs. there is still a heavy spend on computing and talent. as an investor in a scale, how much does that concern you, the capital needs of a company like that? >> it depends on the business model. it's about rightsizing the investment for the opportunity. something that's really exciting

is a lot of the conversation over the past year was about these and norma's generalized models. what we are beginning to see is more specialized applications for particular enterprise opportunities. you don't need to mine all the world knowledge to do a particular job very well. doing a particular job very well can mean norma's value to a business. i am excited about opportunities within the enterprise, applying more specialized ai to really have a big impact on their bottom line. ed: i just got back fromces las vegas and one conversation i had was -- was with the l'oreal ceo about the use of ai in the hardware context for analyzing your scale. the thesis they present is that used sales because your chance of conversion is really high when you have a data set driven by ai. you can really convince the consumer. you are in new york city because

of the national veto federation. join retail and ai. >> i had a similar experience where we were walking the halls and it was abuzz with the applications of ai within retail and commerce. i'm supporting one of my investments which is a company called syrup which is focused on inventory optimization for brands of getting the right item to the right place at the right time. this is the holy grail for retail it's what drives margin if you can some more while producing less. it also encourages sustainability and what historically has been a wasteful category. it's a perfect example of what i was describing of a very specialized ai application to solve an incredibly gnarly enterprise challenge. they are having a fork is north of 40%. that will drive the bottom line and there working with folks like reformation, abercrombie and fitch so it's a perfect example of how ai will transform

every category in business. i think retail is an enormous one and it's been exciting to be here. ed: almost 10 years ago, i remember being in europe and speaking to xl. you're a firm i've known for a long time across pre-seed, back to lake growth stage. right now, where is the focus of the activity or the opportunity in ai. is there still new companies being formed that are being opportunistic to enter this space? >> there is activity at every stage. i am biased because i do early-stage investing. i spend the majority of my time at seed and series a and meeting pre-founders. that's been the ether of excel. we want to be the first partner and maybe that's when you were dreaming up something and if it's possible. i think there is opportunity at every stage but this has been

such a transformational moment, having this new technology in the hands of really passionate and brave technologist i can do incredible things they couldn't before. that's amazing time to be at the earliest days of seed and series a where i spend my time. ed: great to have you. >> it's snowing here, thank you. ed: great conversation, this is bloomberg technology. ♪

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ed: one of youtube's biggest stars has posted his first video onx. elon musk celibate of the mood by reposting a video created by mr. beast who has 230 million + subscribers. he posted on x. i'm curious how much ad revenue a video onx would make so i'm this to test it. i will share thead rev next week. sticking with elon musk, he leaned on the company's board to arrange another massive stock award for him years after he had sold a significant chunk of his shares in the company to acquire

twitter. let's bring in craig. elon musk is saying he cannot negotiate new pay but his rationale is he wants rater voting rights. >> yeah, i think it's incredible that we are just a few weeks removed from this guy talking about advertising -- advertisers blackmailing him x at. i don't think it's a stretch to say that's kind of what is doing with tesla. he's saying that if he doesn't own more of the company, he will essentially take his work on ai elsewhere which is incredible for a few reasons. he has already started a separate ai company called x ai and the fact that he's working on ai and robotics at tesla for years now. he has talked about the company being more than just a carmaker, being a leader in real-world ai as he puts it.

it's really incredible what we've seen play out in the last few days onx of all places. ed: thank you so much. that does it for this edition of bloomberg technology. a short week and don't forget to check at our podcast wherever you get your podcasts. from a rainysf and is snowing new york city, this is bloomberg technology. ♪

>> live from world headquarters in new york, i am sonali basak. >> and impd groenefeld in for kailey leinz. >> welcome to bloomberg crypto reporter katie: coming up, investors are