robyn: if i can ask everyone the same question, the answer is because we are custodians and responsible for the savings and

pensions of real people, like my mom and dad and your mom and dad, then we do a better job every day. francine: it is the world's largest listed hedge fund manager, and after 240 years in existence, man group has a woman in charge for the first time. robyn grew was promoted last september. the high point of a 15-year career at the firm. the former barrister entered the world of finance three decades ago and never left. robyn: the speed of change, the impact, the global nature, the challenge of it just never stopped getting more and more infectious for me. francine: in this episode of "leaders with lacqua," i spoke with robyn grew about diversity, purpose, and what the future holds in an ever-changing world. robyn grew, thank you so much for joining us on leaders. the world is strange. there are so many crises. it is difficult to get a handle of what comes next.

robyn: yes, that would be the shortest answer i could give, yes. if this year has taught us anything, it is that prediction is not her strongest suit, perhaps, and that is perhaps not just in relation to markets, but these big geopolitical events that we are still living with. francine: it is quite incredible to think we are in a better place. i feel like every six months, there is the doom and gloom, interest rates, we have to evaluate what happens next, and yet the economy holds. robyn: that's right. when we talk about higher for longer, which i still say out loud and cross my fingers in some way that may be i'm going to be entirely wrong, but higher for longer. i think one of the nuances in that message is what we are unlikely to see 0%. we are probably unlikely to see 2%.

we may see some 50 basis point adjustments for sure, but i think what we have been signaled clearly from central banks is they are not frightened of using policy to control inflation or to try and respond to inflation, and i think that is the messaging we should all kind of get used to. last 10 years, 0%, free money. next 10 years, higher for longer with that slight nuance that i described. francine: and i imagine that 2024 could be difficult because of volatility. robyn: and dispersion. francine: so it makes it harder to manage money. robyn: i think it does, think the effect that we saw because of the hiccups in the system with the banking crisis, that put a premium back into liquidity, so what is your duration risk? what is your liquidity risk? how do you manage these different economic cycles? and are you prepared, or are you

ready for hedging? let's remember what that means. at times you will do well, and at times you will not do well. it means your clients are going to do well in time she will not do well with the entirety of your portfolio, and that is ok. that actively managing your portfolio for these changing economic cycles or behaviors is what you are supposed to be doing. francine: does it change how you lead man group? robyn: we have different engines doing different things whether it be on one side or the other fundamental discretionary side. we have products in the macro space, equities, long only, long/short, but we are seeing clients are interested in more customized solutions, solutions that answer the problem they have got or the challenge they have rather than, here is a buy that or nothing else, so it changes the way you deliver it to an organization, changes the value that your driving towards

is not just about here is a product, but here is a solution. francine: what does it mean in terms of how you're focusing your energy in 2024? you want to be in the private credit space but hiring is something you need to think of carefully. robyn: we have highly talented individuals focused on being the very best they can be in the workplace and delivering what they do, and that can be alpha in our engines but our operations in our legal department. it is about a war on talent, so hiring the best people, retaining, keeping those people and giving them opportunity and space where they can be the best they can be is incredibly important, so it is tech, talent, vision, about knowing that when people come to work

every day, every single person at man group adds value and is valued. that is important. it is that moment if i can have everybody answer same question, what do you do when you come to work every day? and the answer is because we are the custodians and responsible for the savings and pensions of real people, like my mom and dad and your mom and dad, then we do a better job every day. francine: how do you hire? again, there is a war on talent or battle to get the very best, so what do they want? robyn: it depends. that is the one size does not fit all theory. who doesn't want to be around smart people? who does not want to be in a place that values your input, that doesn't seek to be better today than it was just a day and better tomorrow than it is today who doesn't, want to be around a place which is actually interested in you as a person and interested in being capable of making you better? so where do we go?

we go abroad. we go wide. we look for difference, energy, excitement, that person who can get energized. francine: you don't always hear that from a big finance chief executive. robyn: ok. francine: is there a perception problem for finance? robyn: i don't think finance has done as good of a job in explaining the value we bring to society more generally. i don't cure cancer. that is not what i do. i wish i could. i wish i was that smart and capable to do that. what we do is protect and enrich the savings and pensions of people, people who have worked incredibly hard all of their lives and diligently put their money aside in their 401(k) or wherever it may be, and we are entrusted with that, and we can give them, if we do our job well, financial security. we can revise something that enables legacy investing,

enables access to health care, education, roof over your head to pay the bills, all those things. that is a pretty important thing to do. francine: you seem to be filled with a big sense of purpose which you do not often get from hedge fund managers. robyn: i have a big sense of purpose. i run a firm that has a big sense of purpose and i think that energy is something that we should put to work. when i sit down with big allocators and we talk about what it is we are both trying to do, it is the same. i think we forget that, and our numbers in the institutional size numbers we'll talk about, we lose a bit of that sense of what we are here to do properly. francine: coming up, robyn grew, on adapting to change in an uncertain future. robyn: i'm not good at predicting what the next year or the next five years are going to

be. what we need to do is be flexible, to understand to be dynamic, and to think about the impact of market and changes.

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this just feels really good. fits perfectly. -what can i say? my stylist gets me. they get me. and they'll get you too. francine: from geopolitical risks, climate change, and a different working reality, the work that finance is adapting to change. i continue the conversation with man group chief executive robyn grew. do you worry about what the future economic footprint looks like the world? robyn: our job is to say how do we think about what could happen? how do you stress your portfolio? how do you think about what your outcomes are today? people drawing their pensions today, 50 years from now. man group is 250 years old. we match the duration. our clients are not thinking about just returns for one year

from now, but are trying to think about what they're planning for 30 years from now. we are not good at predicting. i am not good at predicting what the next year or five years will be. what we need to do is be flexible and be dynamic and to think about the impact of markets and changes. francine: are you worried about geopolitics or market functions? robyn: we've now changed geopolitics to geoeconomics and it is something of an impact point. as we think about what happened when russia invaded ukraine, and the impact on our fossil fuel pricing or you think about the worries and concerns around supply chains post-covid and the fact these buffers when you think about corporate real estate and the refinancing it is inevitable -- it is not a 30 year mortgage. these things are coming up for the next three, four, five years. that is a lot of money being put to work. we are in an environment where we look out onto the city and office buildings are in a different place and have a

different level of occupancy that we have seen before. these are big changes in geoeconomics and things that we have to take into consideration. francine: what do you worry about the most? do you have a ranking or it is one and the same? is it a huge transformational change? robyn: it is the transformational change. i think we will see credit markets playing a role. i think that is a long term thing. i think he was see lending tightening, a need for financing, but it is not all things are created equal. i am a big proponent of active management and a big proponent credit, but not every active manager, not every credit expert is going to be able to deliver in these environments. there is expertise and skill need. how do i think about prioritization? i think about capabilities.

i think being as skilled as we can be in data, analytics, in tech, in credit and multiple asset classes, and then being able to pivot those. i think that is where i think about things, but do i think about that is the number one thing i'm focusing on? i don't have the luxury of that. we have to think about all these things. francine: are you looking at for acquisitions to move into certain spaces? robyn: we have said we will grow the firm organically and look for acquisitions to increase our capability on content for clients. we completed our acquisition with private credit management in the u.s. what is interesting is the multiples look more interesting. we have been talking about consolidation. we have been talking about consolidation since the gse. this is one of those points i want to laugh about in a few years from time now, but i actually think as we look at the

barriers to entry in this space, the cost of running our businesses, the scale we need to operate at, and i think the multiples we are starting to see coming down, i think this could be an interesting time for consolidation. francine: why has it been a long time coming? is it regulation, or was there no appetite? robyn: when cash is free, it softens that. the moment where people need to deploy at scale in liquid markets has been something if you look at the trends, the trend has been impassive, private equity. if you think about the assets that no longer sit in the public domain, that has been our theme the past 10 years. i think when private equity does not have as much cash and that racing is harder, and lending is harder, these are opportunities

for niche spaces and expertise to come about, and they want scale. they need to be able to operate at scale, and having an organization that can deliver the amount of scale we put in play, the bit perhaps that is less sexy and exciting, but that infrastructure and the ability to take businesses and grow them, that is what we do. francine: what do you think of the city of london? will it lose a bit of luster? what do you see in five years? robyn: you are talking to a u.k. listed ceo. i could not be more interested in it. i think we have held such an expert in a position in financial markets and generally, so anything we can do to keep that shine i think is important but competition is high. we should not in the way we sit in our firm sit on our hands and think all our history will count for long if we don't keep running, so i am a great believer that we continue to drive it. there is such a lot of innovation, creativity, growth,

such a lot of expertise that sits on these small shores was so anything we can do to keep it alive and keep it at its top game, i am all for, but we operate as a global organization and i will go where there is strong capability to invest in but the markets are deeper and where the clients need us to be and where we can find opportunity. and i will continue to look for that, but i am a u.k. listed ceo that wants this to be great too. francine:, robyn grew on being a female leader in an industry traditionally dominated by men. robyn: i am hopeful we will see a better reflection of difference at the top of every organization, be it financial services or broader than that. â♪

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francine: women make up less than a quarter of employees in thousands of hedge funds and other alternative investment firms globally, and even more of a minority in senior positions, so when man group appointed an all-female leadership team, it marked a massive shift for the company and a milestone in the industry. i continue the conversation with robyn grew. 240 years old. robyn: yes, not me. francine: you are the first

female chief executive of an institution 240 years old. robyn: yes. francine: should it have happened earlier? are you optimistic about the future for females in finance? robyn: i am hopeful we will see a better reflection of difference at the top of every organization, be it financial services or broader than that. has it been a long time coming? i can't help but say it would be terrific to have seen more female ceos before me. i hope we will see a lot after me. the difference is important and anything that enables us to put the most talented people at the top of organizations, and lead organizations with enthusiasm and capability, that is what we are after, so i am hopeful that i am knocking down some doors, barriers, ceilings. francine: the first time someone meets you, it is the infectious energy people notice. is that how you lead?

robyn: yes. it is one of those things. i have been accused of being many things, but that slight duracell bunny, ever-ready battery, just keep it going, i am a bit of that. i have enthusiasm for what we do and passion for what we do. it is sometimes like i am a big person in the room but something incredibly important. you don't do this job 98%. you do this job, this is where mathematicians hate me when i say anything larger than 100% but it is 100%. francine: were you always like that? robyn: yes, it forged my career, that willingness and excitement to learn and be part of fixing things and doing things better has been somewhat of a hallmark.

i have a ridiculous enjoyment for learning and doing things. i walk into any organization or any of our offices, and in this short journey thankfully in london you have from the zero to the fifth floor, if there's somebody in the elevator with me, i'm asking 1000 questions. they can't wait to get out by the end of it in some ways. but it is interesting what is going on and what is happening. it is an interest in people. fundamentally, driven by the interest in the people i work with and the people who we are here to work for. robyn: so you started as a criminal barrister? robyn: i did. francine: then went to finance three decades ago. robyn: something like that. francine: what made you switch? robyn: i'm still an advocate in many ways. i was in the criminal and civil bar, and i said i would do this commerce thing, i thought to myself, and i will go back and become a commercial barrister. and it sucked me in and i never went back.

the speed of change, the impact, the global nature, the challenge of it just never stopped getting more and more infectious for me, and so that legal training, has it been useful? yes. has the advocacy thing been more useful? probably. it is just the best journey. francine: do you have bad days, and if you do, who do you call? do you have a mentor? robyn: if i have a bad day, i have always been a half-full kind of person. every belief i have is that you make the best out of those tough days. of course there are tough days. of course there are days when you have a challenge in front of you where your performance is not great, or where i feel like we could've done a better job. those are moments where you have got to move forward, take the next step forward, and that is what i do.

i think it is resilience. i think it is part and parcel of perhaps my makeup, to be resilient. who do i turn to? i turn to friends, family, and take a break up her either, -- take a breather, although normally not a very long breather because i get too excited by other things, but i fill my life with the things that are really positive around me. i have a great family around me. i have an extraordinary wife, son, parents, and friends, and i am enriched by that, so that enables me to take the next step. francine: do you think there's a difference being a leader in 2024 to what it was like in 2010? does leadership jobs need to lead with more of a sense of purpose? robyn: i think that i don't know a different way of doing it then the way i do it, with a sense of purpose, for sure. when you speak and you are in

charge of an organization, i think it is incumbent upon leaders to be enthused and to be passionate and be engaged. i think when times are tough, when things are tricky in the world, i think it is important that you know that, and that you acknowledge that in your organizations. we have had some tough times in the world, markets in the world, for people to live their lives. we run global organizations with people who come from places that are now in war zones, or too close to borders where there are war zones, where the challenges have been very real post-covid, or where the issues are being felt materially in politics, and not to acknowledge that, i think feels inauthentic. francine: when you are in charge of a big organization, it is tough being close to your employees.

have you do that? robyn: it is about communication, being available and transparent, and setting out, who where weak, what are we here to do, and how will we do that? how do we do that the best we can? my view is you do it by creating extraordinary and exceptional teams that have a focus, and understand the humanity of that, and that is important. to do that, you need different people. different people come with different backgrounds and different flavors of their experience of life. it is not an easy thing to do, it is just something we should do. francine: it is tough employing people who will say no to you. how much do you think of that? this is not a great idea? robyn: i think it is critical. if i have people around me, their excellence is something i need to hear.

it is less likely, it is really not the most likely pool of people, from which the next brilliant idea is going to sprout and germinate. it is going to be levels and other people within the firm. we need to hear that, and it is important i am seen as capable of listening and changing my position. there are times when i will be less willing to change my position. but having somebody come from any part of the organization say, hey, i feel this way about this issue and i don't think i am being heard, is important. francine: where is robyn grew in five years? robyn: still duracell bunny-ing, but perhaps renewable rechargeable basis. i hope i'm still leading man group. i hope i'm looking back

on the past five years and thinking how i can do it better. i hope driving things with the same passion and enthusiasm and i hope with the same brilliant set of people around me. francine: thank you so much. robyn: thank you for having me. ♪ we can calculate sales tax automatically. avalarahhhhhh what if tax rates change? ahhhhhh filing sales tax returns? ahhhhhh business license guidance? ahhhhhh -cross-border sales? -ahhhhhh -item classification? -ahhhhhh does it connect with acc...? ahhhhhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhh get over here kids. time for today's lesson. wow. -whoa. what are those? these are humans. they rely on something called the internet to survive. huh, powers out. [ gasp ] are they gonna to die? worse, they are gonna get bored. [ gasp ] wait look! they figured out a way to keep the internet on. yeah! -nature finds a way. [ grunt ] stay connected when the power goes out, with storm ready wifi from xfinity. and see migration in theaters now.