announcer: from the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide in silicon valley and beyond, this is "bloomberg technology," with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: i'm caroline hyde at bloomberg's headquarters in new york. ed: and i'm ed ludlow in san francisco. this is "bloomberg technology." caroline: we will discuss the regulatory over ted -- overhang

for apple. full analysis ahead. ed: you will get the read on the ipo ecosystem after reddit went public this week with strong debuts. caroline: talking of the week, bitcoin set from one of its worst weeks of the year as etf demand slows. we'll discuss that in so much more throughout this hour. it is happy friday in the context of one of the best weeks for the overall benchmarks in the united states for the entire year. that is if you are long this market. today we just pulled back by about .1%. on the s&p we have hit 20 record highs culminating yesterday. we are just drawing breath for the weekend and deep volume is pushing that lower. have a 10-year yield down by five basis points. all eyes on some fed speak we get today. jerome powell not giving anymore this morning, but certainly we are still thinking that overall we are on pace for three cuts for the rest of the year. i will shine a light on what is happening in china.

we did have some big moves in the u.n.. pull back significantly versus the u.s. dollar. versus the chinese currencies. why? we are seeing chinese policymakers allow a bit of weakening in the currency as they set that peggy lower -- peg lower than anticipated. how far we have come, the etf volumes dialing back and we are off a percent for the course of the trading week. ed, what are you looking at in the micro? ed: reddit. we are going to take a day-two look at reddit. on day one it was a 48% jump from the early four dollars ipo price. there is a lot to discuss if you zoom out about this week. we'll talk about sterile labs -- astera labs as well. in the conversation we had with jen wong, we know you have to go

back in six months time and say, how did they do? the story continues to be elsewhere. apple, doj, antitrust lawsuit against them. in thursday's session it had a material impact on the stock. you can see we are sort of recovering in the session, but i still think it was notable that finally there was a headline about antitrust relating to apple and there was a clear stock reaction thursday. what happens next is the big question. it's bring in mark gurman, chief correspondent covering apple. what has changed in the last 24 hours? do we have any signals for how apple is going to respond? mark: reading to the lawsuit reveals a lot. the department of justice had been working on the case for so long that i would say about 60% to 70% of their major points are things that have already been resolved. apple doesn't believe, of course

they would say this, that the case holds much water. they don't believe they are a monopoly. they seem to find it perplexing that the government is trying to position them as a monopoly, whereas they believe they only have 20% global smartphone market share. i think apple is prepared for a fight here. i doubt they are going to settle. they have settled in some cases but i don't think tim cook has shown a willingness to settle. i think apple believes, based on my read of the lawsuit, i'm not seeing much harm toward consumers. i'm seeing a lot of harm toward developers. i'm seeing harm toward partners and some rivals. but, again, here they are -- their top five issues, a lack of cloud gaming support, a lack of message interoperability, a lack of super apps, which are things like we chat, a lack of support for third-party smart watches to

the same degree as the apple watch, and a lack of support for apple pay, the nfc chip on third-party applications. i think if those five items -- i would say 3.5 of those items have already been resolved. i expect the messages situation and nfc situation to be resolved as well. but taking a step back here, despite that i don't think the doj is making great arguments, given the resolutions already in place, you have to be honest here. a lot of these resolutions are in place because apple has been afraid of this impending doj lawsuit for several years. and they knew these were where they would be attacked, so they knew they had to fix them. it is just for some reason apple influencing the fixes did not stop the doj for moving forward anyways. caroline: this is a global company. tim cook, in china at the moment, seemingly all smiles, and some conversations happening around potential generative ai. as expected.

that was wall street journal reporting. what seems to be at stake is a philosophical difference. philosophy driving apple and the way in which it wants its own ecosystem to work, and a philosophy that seems to be changing tech among regulators. they are still looking at apple as a whole, not individual places they act monopolistic way. -- monopolisticly. mark: full course tim cook is going to be all smiles in china. china is a very important market, and tim cook is a poker player. he's not going to show his true feelings about this lawsuit. certainly not in front of the press and in a public setting as china is that you know, apple stock took a big hit yesterday. i could think of 10 better reasons to sell your apple stock than what is in this lawsuit. apple will certainly have to implement changes. i would imagine that what you saw in the european union regarding the digital market

changes, opening up the nfc check, you were going to see a lot of those changes occur in the u.s., but out of think that is going to do much to change the fundamental situation with apple. they are making a lot of money from the app store. they need to figure out a way to bring in next big hardware category to market. everyone thought that was the car. that is probably what could have added 100 billion dollars or more to apple's bottom line on an annual basis. that is what could have doubled apple's market cap. that is no longer happening, so i think the biggest issue is not regulation, it is not how the app store is going to be impacted, it is how apple is going to continue to grow its hardware business. 75% of apple revenue is still hardware. fundamentally they are a hardware company. they need to figure out how they expand their. it is another important component, and the need to figure out that situation too. caroline: mark gurman, thank you for breaking that down.

we want to delve into the overhang from a regulatory perspective a little bit more and the nuances around it. william kovacic is here. william, to that end, we all know that these sorts of legal wrangling's are a distraction. how much impact do you think it will have on a business model? william: i think the distraction comes from the number of people inside the company who have to commit to support the litigation. don't know what that number is, but the experience in other major cases is that this can be a significant drag on the company. you have the inhibition that comes from the pending lawsuits. people -- companies don't want to provide ammunition for prosecutors. it means they are not quite as agile in developing business programs. i realize these are somewhat intangible consequences, but cumulatively when you take all of the developments we have just been talking about in the united states and abroad, it is an avalanche of regulatory oversight that has to sap the

creative energy of the company. ed: we sometimes talk about on this program regulating through the courts. no, legal action to get a result that is the bigger picture. is there an avenue where apple and the doj can work this out outside of court? william: i would think there is always the possibility of reaching a solution. the solution, though, is going to have to be one that persuades the justice department that the overall aim of any specific settlement is not subject to invasion by additional adjustments in the business model. they will have to be confident that the solution is one that can oversee effectively. there would be a willingness to discuss settlements, a major message that has come from the agencies in the u.s. in recent years is, a great deal of skepticism about the efficacy of any settlement arrangements, and doubts about how readily you can implement them and be effective.

ed: in your reading of the suit itself, do you think the doj has a point here? william: they do have a point, and the point is one that, in a sense, involves a collection of intangible considerations. but there is anxiety about the possibility that incumbent firms that have a significant market position will, through a variety of tactics, diminish the emergence of alternative technologies in new business models. that concern might be the feeling that antitrust law failed in the last 30 years to deal effectively with the emergence of new tech. i believe a state of mind, a perspective that has a tight grip on the agencies, is that they are not going to allow the permissiveness of the past to continue. it means they are going to dig in and look carefully at anything that appears to be an effort by an incumbent to see

that new technologies, new business approaches do not emerge. caroline: this is doj action. we have seen ftc have a similar focus. but sometimes this is political. in an election year does this continue? william: i'm going to give you a bit of speculation that i could never prove in a rigorous way, but i noticed president biden's opponent in many instances has been skeptical of tech. that has been focused in particular on the information services platforms involved in advertising, involved in social messaging. but it was donald trump's justice department that initiated the google search monopolization case. it was donald trump's that trade commission that began the lawsuit against meta for its acquisition of instagram. it could be possible th f tech, given the way their political contributions go, given his concern about the role

they played in his own electoral process in the past, he may look at the ftc and department of justice and say, keep up the good work. caroline: it was a tough -- a trumpet doj that this was initiated against apple in 2019. lamb convey such, thank you. -- william kovacic kick, thank you. wall street bets, you know it well. find out how reddit's ipo has affected the user base. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪ british announcer: rose is really struggling. it's something you build over time. american announcer: that's 21 missed cuts in a row. [car trunk slammed shut] for 88 years, morgan stanley has offered clients determination and forward thinking to create the future... crowd: stop it! ...only you can see. american announcer: rose, back in the winner's circle. [crowd cheers] [music out]

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ed: the fourth largest ipo of the year, reddit, climbed 48% on its first day of trading

yesterday after pricing at the top of its marketed range, raising seven hunter $48 million. let's bring in katie ruth, who has lived and breathed reddit's ipo this week. i would say this went well. katie: did the first day. right now it is trading down, although it technically is well above the ipo price. it is not really much above where it opened yesterday. i think there is two numbers to watch. it is the $34, price at the top of the range. that is where insiders, the institutional investors that have banker connections, that is where they bought. then some of reddit's top users were able to buy at that price. and then there is everybody else, which bought at that $47 a share where it opened yesterday. right now it is trading at 47-ish.it dipped below that this morning. some people could have already lost money on reddit, but coming

you know, most are making money. caroline: certainly long-term investors have cashed in here, potentially. i'm interested as to what this means for ongoing ipo's, what this means more broadly for money left on the table. one ipos to do well, bankers do, but the people raising money don't want them to feel that they could have raised more. katie: the money left on the table is an interesting one, where they could have raised more money and had less of a pop. it's unclear whether reddit allowed for too much of a pop. it is already trading lower today and we will see what happens next week, but it depends on what they are optimizing for. if they are optimizing for raising more cash than -- and you want to price it high. but you don't want to make a bad first impression on the stock market because it can be hard to recover from that. that is the argument the bankers will make about why they price

it to pop. they also want these insiders, these large anchor investors to keep buying more shares. in this ipo and ipos to come. they are not going to take that risk on a new listing on the first day unless they feel they are getting some sort of discount. caroline: katie ruth, go get some rest. we thank you so much. be -- you will be braced for more ipo's to come, i'm sure. want to get a take on how the users are feeling about the company's ipo. we know they are a vocal bunch. a reddit user for more than 10 years and moderator for wall street bets, spending three years as a head moderator joins us now to tell us more. basically about reddit's debut, how has your community reacted? have you been positive on it? >> it has been a mixed bag. there is a ton of positivity, a

lot of people excited to short, buy puts. they are excited for the volatility. ed: last week on the show we reported on the post reddit made itself, saying we are going to do an a.m.a., and we will select the most uploaded posts. -- upvoted posts. the most upvoted was, why are you even going public? it is reddit ironically pushing the management to think again. noor: i think this is a great time for reddit to ipo. certainly there was turmoil over the past year, but if you look at what came out of that, from a business perspective it has been positive. we saw with protests that people found reddit completely indispensable.

there was so much opportunity for a competitor to take reddit's place, and nothing came out of it. this goes to show how deeply ingrained reddit is in the zeitgeist and that it is here to stay. ed: there are many redditors and moderators that have concerns on reddit's plan to license user and platform data to ai companies to use it to train llms. what is your position on it? noor: from a business perspective it is a risk. the ftc is also looking into this. but it is a huge opportunity, and reddit owns something that is very special for llms, and that is real-time user reactions to what is going on in the world. it is something i think no other platform has. so, it is a great opportunity for reddit to make money off of that, and turned around and invest that money in improving the user experience. caroline: i want to ask about the evolution of moderation.

many would say in anticipation of the ipo reddit really get ahead of ensuring that this became a safer space to be able to comment. does that stand? has anything been lost in the focus of needing to clean up the platform? noor: it definitely lost a little bit of the chaos and grit he would have seen 10, 15 years ago. and although that does lose some of its charm, i think it is more reflective of the state of the internet rather than reddit as a platform itself. we are seeing all platforms, social media platforms, since in response to -- censor in response to government laws put in place on hate speech and other types of speech. reddit is maintaining its position as the front page of the internet, and simply reflecting what is on the internet through these policy changes. caroline: wall street bets was

what we talked about day in, day out in 2021, 3 2022, namely made around gamestop. the power that redditors had in that moment. what do you think the power is of redditors around the stock itself? noor: it will be interesting to see. it will be interesting to see when redditors feel empowered, the actions they take on the platform can make a meaningful impact on the stock price of reddit itself. with the gamestop debacle we saw over one billion page views in a short period of time, in a month. and we saw that continued for several months. to think that redditors now, who might be investors themselves, can have a positive impact on the stock, and deepen their relationship with the company and with the platform. ed: we just have 30 seconds. for someone that has no idea what reddit is, what is your pitch for them to get on the platform? noor: reddit is a city that is

incredibly deep, with countless communities to fill every need that you knew or didn't know that you are interested in learning more about. if you have an intellectual curiosity that cannot be satisfied, but it is the place for you. ed: head moderator of wall street that's on reddit. moderators are volunteers. right to have you on the program. coming up, tesla, reducing production at one of its chinese plants as eb sales growth slows. we are going to bring you those stories next. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

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dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? got him. good game. thanks for coming to our clinic, first one's free. caroline: time now for talking tech.

as a sign the company is making some headway in its efforts to fend off a challenge in china's meal delivery arena. shares in the company are up after losing half of their value in 2023. huawei and a secretive chipmaking partner have filed patents for a low-tech potentially effective way to make advanced semi conductors. we are talking about surfer-lined quadruple patterning. it is raising the process that china could produce chips, despite u.s. efforts to halt its progress. lastly, tesla. it has reduced production at its plants over there amid sluggish growth in tv sales. -- ev sales. the company has instructed employees at its shanghai facility to lower production. that is two vehicles tesla makes in china working five days a week instead of the usual 6.5 days.

all of this according to sources. ed: coming up, we have listings from astera labs and reddit this week. could the ipo tide be changing? rachel goering -- we will see what rachel goering is expecting. that is coming up next. now, british audience, pay attention. vodafone and three's combination is facing a deep check by the u.k. competition markets authority, the regulator. they issued a statement saying they are concerned and do not buy the argument from vodafone and three that combining the two would mean better deals for customers. vodafone's london-listed chair is up 1.8%, with little to go. -- with a little to go. it is an interesting story about consolidation in that market. this is bloomberg. ♪

caroline: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." i'm caroline hyde in new york. ed: i'm ed ludlow in san francisco. on the week we were at one point headed for the best week of the year. on several major indices, including the nasdaq 100. in friday's session we are completely flak on the net -- flat on the nasdaq 100. what it is interesting to see the momentum of the week when you consider nothing at all happened in the fed meeting on wednesday, and then on thursday apple, for obvious reasons, was

the biggest points drag on the nasdaq 100 and s&p 500. we are literally .2 percent away from the nasdaq being on track for its best week of the year. let's see what happens all told. also into cash in terms of what happens, this week's ipo. it is down 1.5 percent after jumping 48% on debut thursday. astera labs is up for a third straight session, having listed earlier in the week. but, as you and i know, caroline, let's have a conversation in one month or three months or six months and see how these stocks are faring because of the lessons we learned in september when we had that window with arm.it has been macron interesting condensed ipo window this week. caroline: i was just checking on those were -- on those, and arm is well above. let's talk about this whole new

wave of ipo names. reddit, astera labs debuting this week. either that is going to open up the pipeline. rachel gerring is here to get your take on the feel-good factor right now. thus far these companies have come to the market and come well. is that mean suddenly the other names we have been waiting for are going to be galvanized? rachel: it definitely helps the momentum for what we are expecting in the ipo market, the pipeline we are seeing come through. as you all were noting, the post-ipo performance of these companies, even the ones before them, will continue setting the stage and influence what will continue coming to market over these next several months and throughout the remainder of 20. we got positive momentum. the trends are going the right way, but not without its challenges. we are in a political election cycle this year, so there is going to be dynamics everyone is

going to have to navigate. caroline: dynamics being also that the market is hungry for a i names. when you are advising these companies, when they are saying i want to navigate liquidity events, want to analyze the market, do you think about where they need to be dining out on ai? rachel: ai is certainly something drawing a lot of focus, interest, particularly from investors. when we think about ai, i think about it in a few different buckets. you have the pure play ai companies, those developing the technology. there is a lot of continued interest in this area, particularly in the private financing space. these companies are generally getting funded. will we see a flood of ipos from them over the coming months and year? maybe not. they are getting the financing they need. they are developing the technology. then i also look at other companies and how they are employing ai within their

companies, elective to their strategy. we are seeing that play out. we are going to continue, not without skepticism, from investors. then you have that broader ecosystem we are seeing right now and how you are contributing to ai and that broader e -- that broader ecosystem. ed: this is exactly what i was writing about in my column this morning, that reddit, for example, got its ai story right going into the ipo. the data licensing business. will be interesting to learn from you is what is more important, in the roadshow you sell your ai story, or is a more important that actually now a company like reddit is listed, they can prove they have an ai business after the fact, that it is actually real? rachel: i think both are critical, for obvious reasons. where we are seeing, even when you are putting that into your s1, investors asking you to

prove it. it is not writing about the possibility and idea, but, what have you done even up to this point to share with investors how your proving this out? how you truly have a strong plan that you are now executing on? and then proof will be in the pudding. post-ipo how you are continuing to execute and perform. as we continue to watch the performance of these stocks, you know, two months from now, three months from now, they have to continue demonstrating that performance and staying good on the commitments they made. ed: how do you assess this week's ipo window? i don't even know if we call it window. versus what we saw in september? rachel: this is timmy demonstrating, we have investor interest around ipos. the company coming to market right now is what we have

expected. they are large. they have a name. they have some history. performance history behind them as well. the risk profile is one of an appetite that is attracting investors as they continue to perform. believe that opens up opportunity for the growth-oriented companies to come to market and help drive some valuations over time. but it's going to be a steady recovery. we are not expecting a big balloon, if you will, or a huge spike. a steady recovery is what we have continued to expect throughout 2024 as we continue to see the market rebound. caroline: what is the motivating factor here? reddit wanted an ipo for years. it is a liquidity event for employees, but i'm sure time for investors to have money back. what is driving other names? rachel: everyone had their facts and circumstances. some are going to be anchoring around valuations, and are they

getting to a valuation they are expecting liquidity for? for employees, for other founders? a lot of p/e. they have been having some companies, they have been holding for quite some time. they want to start entering back into the m&a market. as we see rates come down hopefully will -- hopefully we will see m&a activity. i think that is going to start influencing some exit from that stage as well. caroline: we want to thank you. rachel gerring there on the ipo landscape. you want to stick with companies going public. not all of them do ipos. some of them do spac's. donald trump's startup having voted today on whether digital world acquisition can proceed taking trump midea group public. it runs true to social, the platform. it has been a long-delayed deal. it has now proved a number of

insiders and former associates sued to block the deal stand to pocket millions of dollars. ed: coming up, we are going to dive into the world of climate investing, ai. what on earth happened this week in ipos. anything and everything we have spoken about this week. kim-mai cutler. really looking for to that conversation next. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪ you have to make it. and if you want a successful business, all it takes is an idea, and now becomes the future. a future where you grew a dream into a reality. it's waiting for you. mere minutes away. the future is nothing but power and it's all yours. the all new godaddy airo. get your business online in minutes with the power of ai.

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caroline: this is "bloomberg technology." you are looking at a live shot of the principal room. coming up at 12:00 p.m. eastern time, bloomberg's real yields. this is bloomberg. >> this is the blackwell gpu, or graphics processing unit. it is the start of ttc, nvidia's

annual developers conference. the b200 is more powerful than the prior ai accelerator. compared to hopper, blackwell offers two .5 times the performance for training large language models and five times performance for running the model, a process known as inference. video will offer blackwell in various forms. two blackwell gpu's and one cpu in combination. they going to liquid-called systems like this and shipped to cloud providers for their data centers. it is a market that nvidia ceo says will started to hunt a billion dollars annually and grow from there. -- $200 billion annually and grow from there. gtc crowds circled around a single demo rack.

the real thing short -- starts shipping in late 2024. ed: among everything else, ttc -- gtc ended last night. whether you are an ai founder or an infrastructure company, now down to jensen long. that might -- jensen long. caroline: share prices reap the benefit as well. those he anointed, the synopsis. some of these companies managing to push higher because we are starting to see how they are able to tap into this ecosystem that basically is the driving force. ed: as we have been saying, get the ai story right. ai was also a big part of the story yesterday for reddit's public listing day. initialized capital celebrated the ipo of its portfolio company, which is banking on

using data to builders of large language models to fuel reddit's growth. let's bring in initialized capital partner kim-mai cutler. i wrote in my column today, reddit got there ai story right. i thought it was interesting they went there with that. what did you make of it? kim-mai: i think it is a tremendous day for the whole team there, for steve, for alexis. you know, that company in particular has a long history and close ties with sam altman, who runs openai. i think that relationship over the last decade or more benefited their ability to ride this wave and reddit itself is an incredible property. i am a multiple times a day. a wealth of information they have and all of the different subcommunities and the way people talk honestly and freely about what they think, you know, it is an incredible data source. ed: what i find so interesting,

particularly in deployed capital, the types of startups you invest in, reddit is an example of where don't need to be a builder of large leg which models or infrastructure play to be a participant in what is happening in ai. do you have any parallel examples of companies you think will benefit from the infrastructure investment happening? kim-mai: i think for us, you know, we have long done many different deals that have very specific applications to different workflows and industries. for example, you could think about the health care use case. have a company that supports medical professionals and diagnoses. we have another company that serves as an ai copilot for financial compliance. there is all of these different specific industries with specific legal requirements and ways that people work that will need very honed and refined applications of these foundational models.

caroline: it is a long way coming for some of these checks you have made into the glass health you mentioned, some of these other ai-adjacent names you have invested in. how are you thinking about exit strategy longer-term? what was interesting about this week was microsoft basically hiring inflection, originally of deep mind, heading in. it feels like big tech juggernauts are partnering in interesting ways. how broad does that go for the entire ecosystem here? kim-mai: i think some of the developments we have seen this week are a reflection of consolidation in players in the foundational model market. obviously there are companies that are far and away have tremendous coming, revenue run rates. i'm thinking chatgpt and anthropic. and then companies that are not quite at that level or don't

have the same level of revenue growth or having to make different decisions about what they need to do, given the cost of compute and cost of going forward. i think as a seed stage investor we have companies we are working with for, we might be working with them for five to 10 years before we go public. if i look at some of the earlier fines, our previous ipo is instacart, have just had a very positive momentum over the past six months to a year. and then going forward we are going to have companies that perhaps you and i will be talking about in 10 years. caroline: what has been interesting this week in the context of ai, whether it is u.s.-china relations, there is also the context broadly of where the government plays with this. we had the big announcement from intel, getting more subsidies, to be able to be building here. i know that is something you are thinking a lot about in the

context of climate technology as well. we have money being pushed from the ev perspective this week. to perhaps enhance electric vehicle manufacturing here in the u.s. when you are thinking about the opportunity or another way of investing in climate tech, does that stick? kim-mai: absolutely. the ira has provided a number of carrots and sticks, predominantly carrots that have tremendously expand the market for some of our companies. for example, having more punitive measures around methane emissions is a real benefit to our companies. using satellite imagery to pinpoint methane leaks from specific facilities. the incentives in the ira around revenue, government purchases of carbon removal are helping to mature that market. we have another company in southern california called

clarity that is doing carbon dioxide removal with lower energy intensity and usage and costs. ed: right at the top of your blog post you were talking about the chips act. lower down at the early stage is there any benefit felt? the inflation reduction act? kim-mai: there is benefits for both, but if we are talking about a long-term investment in the united states' ability around manufacturing and deep attack, i think that is bringing in a lot of tax credits and tax incentives around facilities in this country. for example, to really get carbon removal to the next stage we are going to have to see facilities all over the united states, particularly in the southwest, where clarity is looking do it's first facility.

that is going to create jobs for all kinds of americans. ed: kim-mai cutler, great to have you on set here in san francisco. we will be right back. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

>> i love playing chess. this is one of the things you all have enabled me to do. thin that i wasn't able to really do much the last few years, especially not like this. i have used a mouse stick and stuff, now it is all being done with my brain. caroline: part of a live stream with neuro-link's first patient, showing a quadriplegic man, who is able to play video games and online chess using his mind. neural link is a brain tech startup founded by elon musk. this implant allows a patient to use their thoughts to control the computer. ed: bitcoin has peeled back more

than 10% from its all-time high, and may be headed for one of its worst weeks of 2024. this is the appetite for spot bitcoin etf seems to be slowing down. but co-ceo mike belshe joins us now. that was the encz -- bitgo ceo mike belshe joins us now. mike: i do not like to predict price, but i think we are at a good time. course there is some consolidation. if you are not ready for my 20% drops you are not ready for my 600% increases. but overall what we are seeing is consolidation. the etf's just launched. we have seen tremendous run-up. a little bit of pullback is happening, but all of the macro climate remains extremely bullish for bitcoin. primarily due to what people know about the long term. what we care about most at bitgo. long-term macro looks like we are going to be solid. with having a static supply of bitcoin, something you can count

on that doesn't get eroded and fiat currency is continuing to do massive changes with debt and deficits and no sign of change for that front. caroline: bitcoin, potentially another underpinning of price, but who has been getting into these etf's? mike: so far i think it has been mostly the smaller ticket sizes. member, institutions move pretty glacially. i think we have seen a wave of retail. i think it is getting bigger, but the institutions, you know, we have seen some smaller hedge funds in. larger hedge funds will come in. pensions are coming. endowments are already here. now that we have an etf available, which is the distribution channel that makes it easy for everyone to participate, it takes a while to go through investment committees, but i think we are starting to see that run-up happened now all through the summer. 80,000 by may. ed: the calendar item, what

happens do you think? mike: the having is an interesting pattern people look at. the most interesting part is the long-term meaning of the half ing. going has a monetary policy set in 2009, and it has remained completely unchanged. it is the longest-standing unchanged monetary policy in the history of mankind. this is a demonstration that bitcoin has an unchanging commitment to that policy. having this applied decrease on a block by block basis, which means we see a lower rate of inflation, some measure and how you compare that to other assets , bitcoin is in a very good status as one of the most static supply assets on the planet. caroline: mike belshe, it has been great to catch up with you. bitgo ceo, as we have seen one of the worst weeks for bitcoin this year. that does it for this edition of

"bloomberg technology." ed: what an end to the week. check out the podcast. the platforms are apple, spotify, i hard, and we published to all of our own platforms here at bloomberg -- bloomberg. from san francisco and new york city, this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

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