it's an amazing thing when you show generosity of spirit to someone. and you want people to be saved and to have a better life, then you don't stop. the idea that we have saved five million people's lives, it's overwhelming. it's everything. >> the fed really doesn't have much of a case right now to cut rates. >> why would you even think about cutting interest rates when the economy continues to be

really solid. >> this is a fed that cares less about getting to june and more about -- >> the idea of cutting from where we are from that perspective doesn't make a ton of sense right now. >> this is bloomberg surveillance with jonathan ferro, lisa abramowicz and annmarie hordern. >> big week for jobs data kicks off in a big way in the next 24 hours. we get jobless claims in a moment. looking for payrolls. payrolls the estimate in and around 200 k. a very punchy call from andrew. they're looking for one on friday. looking for continued weakness. there rate cut call for 2024. they are looking for cuts of 125 basis points. that is double what this market is priced for. lisa: that what is been viewed as a bullish call at one point because everything would've gotten turbocharged. this point has been consistent

on the heels of weakness and the labor market will be on the leading edge of that. >> looking for numbers this morning. that doesn't look like weakness to me. tomorrow the estimate in our survey. 213,000 from 275 the previous month. annmarie: if you have a two handle on this program non-front payrolls where can there be weakness and then to your point into terry's point the mirage six months keeps being pushed out which wire thought bostic was more interesting than powell yesterday who was similarly dovish as usual but bostic set i see the rate cut down the line this year it's only getting one. >> the question he asked of the time the right one per how committed are they to the 2% inflation target. if it is a six-month rolling effort the objective is six months out does the markets are

to pick up on that. i would argue may be as a suggestion to him over the last few weeks that the market might be. >> that said it does seem like in general you haven't seen inflation expectations pick up to the same degree you might expect the university michigan sentiment survey and people say it's not necessarily picking up all that much. is this something we will rely on because you're not seeing wholesale people freaking out the bond market or some of the futures market about the inflation. why not. it seems like this market believes the fed can bring that down. >> it does reveal inherent bias when inflation was too high to say that it wasn't a problem and now it's on its way back down pointing to the same data points in a different way. at one point they are viable and another point they are not. sometimes they are flawed. the fed dances around that issue a million times.

and then jill starts to move in the direction for the federal reserve to cut interest rates and desolate, really important indicator puts rates down. >> throne another wrench into the fire. the data we might get might be revised completely in a different direction in six months or a years time. this goes to the flawed concept of data dependency we talked about yesterday. how much can we depend on data that is inherently flawed and insufficient with sort of low survey response levels. this is the compass people have to look at the world with, that's why it's the collection of data and heads are spinning. >> how dependable is that data. equities on the s&p 500 posited by one third of 1%. we are very close to 440 on the 10-year. 43693. higher by two basis points. the euro firmer by 1/10 or two.

and crude 85. coming up this hour, on his call for a soft landing. former new york fed president bill dudley on why he think the fed is wrong about how low rates will go and becky frankiewicz looking at payrolls tomorrow morning. fed chair jay powell sing the recent data has materially change the overall picture. chris saying we see reduced odds of recession and rate cuts converging towards a goldilocks backdrop. markets are strong with q1 returns driven by -- there was some rotation in march which should continue in a soft landing. chris, let's start there. why can this rotation continue. >> if you believe we're in for a soft landing it sure doesn't feel like goldilocks but the data seems to indicate it is. the small-cap stocks are going to do relatively better and stop

hiding out in the mega cap tech expecting higher rates. jonathan: are they to be the winners in the next quarter? >> a little bit idiosyncratic because you're worried about credit issues and real estate obviously. small-cap industrials which do well at the end of last year we expected it to continue to do well for the rest of the year. >> one of your ways of thinking about the world is to select a small number of stocks you invested into a lot of research on. we talk about the macro picture. how much of the macro picture has caused you to shift some of what you're holding currently? >> we are not just picking stocks individually we are picking industries where companies can create for themselves sustainable competitive advantage irrespective of the economic backdrop. the economy is an input as we think about earnings and multiples, we do give it on occasion despite will be are

feeling about soft landing and generally tend to be defensive and less cyclical. current revenue names. also rate sensitive names today. even staples which had a tough day, so we think about all those things in our private market value. ultimately we are looking for stocks. >> it's interesting you are picking stocks that are more rate sensitive at a time that's one of the biggest agreements we were talking this morning morning about at what point do bond yields really pose a problem to stocks. do you think there is a resiliency baked in because of the growth picture that's slide yields decline. >> don't think rates are going up. so there's a chance for resumption of earnings growth and continued multiple expansion use on the first quarter on some of those names. >> can you tell us what you would leave behind. >> we were a little late on

meda. as well as google. i'm a little bit worried about google, i see some parallels between media and google. is there the search business of the future as good as the search business of the last 10 or 20 years. can they replicate them anomaly -- the monopoly they had and i'm not sure that they can do that to the extent they once did. >> the challenge that ai presents? >> it's all analog dollars to digital dollars type trade-off. ai is more expensive, it's unclear how they monetize although there increasing signs they monetize through subscription as we saw yesterday working with distributors like apple. but is that world could be as good as it once was for google. google of course does not trade at a particularly steep valuation it trades at a discount in the market. so much of that was already priced in last year. >> i want to introduce disney

into the conversation as well. big week for bob iger. >> there's no doubt iger has the magic touch and has done a great job with disney. including finding a successor to bob iger which was highlighted in the proposal. still something they need to deal with. disney has an unrivaled stable of brands and they've got the parks business which is doing great and continues to do great. i don't know what they do with espn. and the stock obviously has had a huge run in the backdrop of this fight and it's not cheap here. >> let's talk about some of the proposals and what might still get fluctuated because it didn't garners much support as it did amongst investors. the idea of distributing more of the potential cash flow to

shareholders spinning off espn or doing something. what of those you think is most likely to go through. >> i think all of those are under consideration at all times. among the other things as folks continue to focus on the parks and reinvest in the parks comcast owns the universal parks is done for a great extent. i think that's can i happen. as far as there has been a reinvigoration of the content investment looking for more originals. that was impacted by the pandemic as well as the strike with a little bit of an air pocket in that. we will see what happens with that slate. >> can we talk about the importance of leadership. there's a billion people on the planet and we are led to believe in media circles and on wall street as well is only one person can run this company and its bob iger. it's a massive struggle for succession. how important is one person, one

man. out of a billion people on the planet we can only find one guy to run the walt disney company? are we meant to believe that? >> i don't necessarily believe that but leadership qualities are scarce. we have businesses like buffett that can be run by anyone. he has a charisma, he is a certain drive, a certain likability within the company to get everyone moving in the same direction and to again restore the creative magic that has been lacking. >> are you still shareholder at disney. the reason i ask is it's an important conversation to have. when your ceos of public companies that have been there a long time to start to behave like founders. they are meant to be custodians of public companies. why are we having more serious

debates about the failure of coming up with a succession plan. if we are led to believe there's only one guy who can run the walt disney company should the conclusion be that he has failed to find one person out of 8 billion who can run this company. isn't that part of his job as the ceo as the custodian of a public company. i've seen this in industry after industry that we treat people who lead companies for a long time as if they are the founder of that company. they are not. >> criticism by number of the activists was spot on. that's a major failure of this board and frankly of bob iger to find somebody to replace him. >> i think it's an important point and i think this goes to the moment we are in. it sort of points to this issue that anyone knew is going to be controversial because they have to put a new spin on a company that's established itself in a far less controversial moment. >> i wonder which of the companies have that and get the

same treatment. >> we certainly have plenty of companies in media and technology obviously. coming to. >> excluding founders from this conversation they gave birth to these companies i'm talking about those in their seats acting like founders when they are not. that's the issue i've got. >> i won't name names. lisa said what changes can we expect. we can see more activity on the succession front at disney soon. we've got a stable of individuals being talked about i don't know what kind of process but you will hear a lot more about those individuals. >> forgive the grant. i'm not passionate about it. the latest in media and elsewhere. here's your bloomberg brief. >> boeings crisis has left major airlines desperate for planes sending the cost of use jet rentals to the highest level in

years as boeing slows production following january's alaska airlines blowout, competitor airbus is struggling to lift output weaving airline searching for the largest single island -- a single aisle jets can find. now topping out around $335,000. investors are gaining leverage and likely to shift place with airlines willing to pay a premium. disney shareholders shutdown activist investor nelson peltz efforts to win seats on the company's board. investors voted to reelect all 12 of the company backed board members included bob iger. making the most expensive corporate proxy fight in history. the triumph on management holds a more -- it has been trying to get seats on the board to address lagging shareholder returns and what it sees as an inadequate corporate governance. tesla ceo elon musk says he's boosting pay for ai engineers is the company deals with the talent war. musk posting on xo openai has

been aggressively recruiting tesla engineers. and had unfortunately been successful in a few cases. going on to say the talent work for ai engineers is the craziest he's ever seen. he is pursuing ai projects through tesla and his ai start up. that's your bloomberg brief. >> up next, it's the markets versus the fed. >> given the strength of the economy and progress on inflation so far we have time to let the incoming data guide our decisions on policy. >> that conversation up next. live from new york, good morning. ♪

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jonathan: equities positive one third of 1% on the s&p. it's the markets versus the fed. >> given the strength of the economy and progress on inflation so far we have time to let the incoming data guide our decisions on policy. if the economy evolves broadly as we expect most participants see it is likely to be appropriate to give -- begin the policy rate at some point this year. >> fed chair jay powell says the recent inflation data hasn't materially change the overall picture when it comes to rate cuts.

bill dudley said he think the fed is wrong about how low rates will go writing betting against the fed is a fraud endeavor. nevertheless in this case i think the market is right. while the fed's projections for 20 to four look likely be more accurate than the markets at the start of the year. this time as the central bank not the market that will probably have to adjust. bill joins us for more. this came up in our last conversation. what do you think explains this? is it a refusal or reluctance to engage in that debate before we get back this inflation hurdle. >> the fed's focus more on what they will do in 2024. they don't have love confidence beyond that. earlier in the year we had a gap with markets quite a bit. six rate cuts prayed that's closed and now the gap has gone the other way. the market things the federal funds rate at three and three quarters percent with economic

projections is brought them 2.6%. i think the market is right that the fed is knocking to go as far as the fed is projecting. for two reasons. inflation stock in average higher than 2%. and our so-called neutral rate with monetary policy has risen given the large fiscal deficits with ai and estimate spending growth and host of other factors . they're are basically putting more pressure. >> often reflect a number of years ago. i'll sing your praises. you said in june of i think 21 that rates will go much higher than people think. talked about five and five sounded so far. five would be like me saying 10 year yields are going to 8%. people turned around and were like you are nuts. what did you see that early that led you to believe rates would need to be that high to get

inflation down and how does that inform your view of where things will be longer-term. >> the federal reserve set themselves up deliberately in terms of tightening in this last cycle. they basically said we can raise rates until inflation is 2% and expect not to be 2% in the future. by definition they would be very late. if they are late it means you have to do more. moving quite a bit higher than they expected. they still think neutral federal fund rates are really low 2.6%. at 2% inflation. i think that's probably not the case, it's true after the great financial crisis with a lot of financial damage to the economy. if you look back at the role prior to the financial crisis, it at 2% yield -- real rates. 0.6% reading the fed has seems to also below. >> how much do you think there

needs to be a full repricing of how much of a cutting cycle there needs to be in the very near term. if three rate cuts seems a little bit lofty given how strong the data has been and you see more likely chance of two or one. >> this year as powell says repeatedly on the data small differences in the growth rate changes where the fed does more. i don't think three rate cuts are out of aroma possibility. where i disagree is more longer-term. you see markets reprice that longer-term upwards is the bottom for the federal funds rate. that's what's pushing up 10 year bond yields so the bond market is adjusting and changing expectations of where the fed is going in the longer-term. >> every time we hear from powell he talks about bumps in the road. how recent data even though it's hotter than expected for the most part does not alter his view that it would be appropriate to start cutting rates at some point in the near future. at what point should that shift,

should some of these data points be viewed as something other than bumps. >> his view's monetary policy is tightening so it's a question of time. the other thing he thinks pretty strongly is that the reason why growth with supply chains normalizing so supply constraints were holding back the economy, you get a one-time increase in growth rate. i think what is underestimating is the fact financial conditions have been so hot since last october and that's also rocked considerable support to the economy. >> i know you address this last time you were on about whether policy is truly restrictive or not. you did not think it was nearly as restrictive as many people had expected. do you think there are more people on the fed who are coming around this view thinking if we are seeing such easing financial conditions at rates where they are maybe that suggests we are not nearly as restrictive as we keep saying. >> i think very slowly we are

starting to see that happen. the median estimate from the fed officials about neutral fed funds rate is that 2% inflation moves from 2.5 to 2.6 so a move it's starting to move. there's a big skew to the fed official estimates. the bottom line is 2.4 the top is a 3.8 so there's plenty of room to move conceivably higher. i think it's can to continue to drift up. >> fantastic just out this morning bloomberg opinion, thank you. the fed is wrong about how low rates will go petting against the fed is a fraud endeavor but bill says in this case the market is right. >> looking at a terminal rate of 3.75% as being where the destination is. if you take a step further how does that transpire. have risk assets truly price that in. is it something price a bowl when we don't understand the

financial conditions in terms of what the economy looks like. do we understand what the consequences will be of risk assets. people were saying expect low returns for the for siebel future. we'll bring back those years of great concern -- great returns. this is the part of this that is not adding up. >> look at the last five months. the last two months of 2023. we had rates grinding lower. treasuries absolutely ripping yields down expecting rate cuts. equities did great. you're thinking we need more of the same to start pricing in rate cuts. equities just took off 10% gains in q1. if that relationship trying to interpret this relationship between what's happening in fixed income and commodities now and working out what it means for stocks. >> andrew talking about the potential for double the number of rate cuts on weakness going back to what you just said about

late last year. those rate cuts were considered a positive for stocks. now my hunch is those rate cuts would be not viewed as positively if they came on the heels of such weakness which just highlights how turned around some of the narratives have been over the past six months. >> up next on the program or economics mike mckee breaks down jobless claims for you. we are going to catch up with becky franco it's at manpower reacting to the labor market. payrolls 24 hours four minutes and 13 seconds away. something like 200 k is the estimate from new york, this is bloomberg. ♪

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jonathan: equities positive into the opening bell, 60 minutes away. futures on the s&p 500 up by less than .33%. looking for something in and around or close to 210,000. positive by 0.40% for the nasdaq. economic data on the 10-year yield, 4.36. here is mike mckee. michael: we have a slight rise in jobless claims, 221,000 as opposed to the initially reported 210,000 last week.

we will see with the revision is. on a continuing basis, we dropped hundred 79 million -- we dropped, so little improvement. last week -- the week before, it was revised to 212, so we go from 212 to 221. a 900,000 number game. it is not outside the range that we have seen, but it is the first increase in a while of continuing claims last week at 1,810,000, so 1,000,991 is the continuing number. 68.9 billion is compared with 67.6 billion on a revised basis the month before in january. this is a february number. it will weigh on february growth. 2.8% for gdp lacerating. jonathan: how much weight should

i put on jobless claims and continuous claims falling more than expected? should i put more weight on one rather than the other? michael: this is a view on how the economy is doing. if they revised, it would suggest more people getting laid off and more people having a harder time finding new jobs, so at this point, it is noise that changes on a week to week basis, telling you that the labor market is weakening. lisa: which is a reason markets are not responding all that much. i do wonder when you talk to economists, how slow can things look before there can be sudden shifts? i'm looking for a sudden shift? or is this just a slow grind that we will see with initial jobless claims, potentially slowly rising over time? michael: history tells you that when you go into a recession,

the data can change quickly, but we have so much data now that it is hard to see that we would have a real huge shot in the employment numbers and we haven't had one for a long time. you can have bad weather, something like that, at this point, the surprise would be that not that we see a terrible number, but we see a number way off from what was anticipated. wall street think you'd would see a strong number, on whether the forecast is 213. lisa: we always talk about this, which data matters most, and you have the adp report, that 10% figure in terms of wage again. how important was that given that people question the relevancy of this particular set of data. michael: the fed is going to be taking a look at it, and they prefer the eci for a more accurate look on where wages and

salaries are going, but we still have hourly wage still over 4%, and 3.5% is the top end of where you are seeing sustainable levels, so they will be watching that. wall street and the fed because powell basically has lay that down the last two speeches, that we will not feel the need to cut unless the labor market weakens significantly because the rest of the economy seems to be doing fine. jonathan: 221, jobless claims, the ron kind of upside surprise. setting things up for payroll tomorrow morning. the estimate, 213,000, the previous number is 275. quick snapshot of the market, equity futures positive by .40%, it is up by 0.5% on the nasdaq. the 10-year still higher by about two basis points.

i was looking for that to way off the back of the claims number but it didn't happen. lisa: the fact that you don't have much of a reaction to the number tells you that there have been so many data points that just missing by couple of thousand is not going to change a lot. jonathan: joining us is becky franco it's -- becky frankiewicz , wonderful to catch up with you. one thing we have to do is talk about what is happening with temp workers and permanent workers. can you talk us through how that has evolved? becky: normally, coming out of a recovery rate or recession, employers would like temp workers, called temp penetration, and we would see that increase. 2% is the average, and we are starting to see further declines in temp ministrations. the offside is we are seeing permanent hiring continuing to be strong which reinforces that

one, employers are still hiring, and two, there is post-pandemic hangover, where employers could not found the town that they wanted, so they are scared to make them permanent employees. that will be a number i am watching. perm will be strong. jonathan: did that make it difficult to read where we were in the cycle? michael: yes, i would say that the human behavior has now come into the algorithms that everybody is using and however, given that, the resilience of this labor market is just amazing. we continue to see strong numbers, like 213 or 250 tomorrow, i would not be surprised anywhere in between, which demonstrates a resilient labor market. lisa: it highlights the rolling recovery and the rolling recession in the labor market and as well as the broader economy. where are you expecting jobs to be added? for a while, it was services

sector, the people facing areas that got hardest hit during the pandemic. are we seeing that shift to areas that have been left behind, whittle managers, and other types of professionals? becky: the jobs numbers, looking in the rearview mirror, but we are looking at real-time data in terms of demands for jobs, and we are seeing increased demand in affordable experiences, hospitality and leisure. but the biggest hires and the country today in the biggest employers looking for labor, walgreens, family dollar, great clips, the great clip franchise, so consumers seeking affordable experiences, and companies needing to hire. that is one. another is tech continues to be strong, software developers are the number two job most in demand, and ai machine learning, which you spoke about earlier on the show, continues to set records week over week and month over month over demand, so the

demand for ai learning and engineers specifically. lisa: is there anything you are seeing that coheres with the sudden demand for workers that could happen within the next six months? becky: i don't think we are going to see a sudden follow. i think the word of the year is stabilization. we are seeing rebalancing from the post-pandemic highs and lows. employers are taking a more measured approach in terms of who they are hiring, tending towards perm, and employees are staying put. we were seeing them really level off, and as you alluded to in the jobless claims, we are not seen layoffs spike either, so people are staying put and companies are holding onto workers for the most part, and we are starting to see evenness and stabilization. i don't anticipate a drop off. if anything, the pmi above 50, i am hoping to see expansion, particularly in skilled trades in manufacturing. annmarie: i would like to lean into that competition you are

seeing in the labor market. elon musk called it the craziest he has seen. how difficult is it to attract the talent that could fill the industry that is filling the stock market? becky: first, is the talent available? attracting the talent is difficult because we don't have enough and ai machine learning engineers population is not enough. it is a very, very hot market, and let's take a minute to defined what is and ai machine learning engineer? playwright algorithms, they do user interface, so we can have a usable platform, so that is the kind of thing we are looking for. a lot of data analytics, programming experience, that is what you need to have, adjacent skills. lisa: not to weigh into the political sphere, but i'm curious what you make of what jerome powell said yesterday about immigration and how much that has contributed to a robust

labor market without commensurate inflation. how much do you see that within your world in terms of new immigrants, legal or not, taking up jobs and then really keeping wages more reasonable, i guess, for the employers and potentially not rising as much for the workers? becky: i thought it was a provocative point of view. we are not seeing that. we only hire people who are able to work in the country, but we do believe in immigration because we see the structural economy has changed. we don't have enough workers, we have enough skilled workers not enough workers, so we would support anybody who could work. we would like to have access to work, but in terms of what is that hiding in the numbers? it goes back to the old algorithms are not holding in this recovery and it is one reason i would push on the fed, when you see they are waiting for the labor market to decline in order to cut rates, the old

algorithms are holding and we should explore that a bit. jonathan: wonderful to explore it with you, becky frankiewicz of manpowergroup, difficult to get a root through -- read through traditional methods when things seem broken post-pandemic. lisa: we heard that yesterday, as well, saying that the indicators are broken. indicators with inflation are broken, so this raises the issue, what is your lodestar at a time when there are indicators and algorithms are fraught? jonathan: s&p 500 session highs up over .50%, equities marching higher. let's get you an update on stories elsewhere. here is your bloomberg breakdown. >> more text layoffs, this time at amazon's cloud division. amazon web services is cutting hundreds of jobs that will affect sales and marketing employees and the team developing the technology. it comes after sales growth at

aws slowed to a record low as corporate customers cut back on spending. they jump to 44%, higher than the historic average for the cfa level. those who took the test for the first time scored significantly above the average pass rate at 52%, while those with a further exam had a passing rate of 28%. chinese ev maker byd is planning to launch its first electrical pickup truck this year and implants to take it mobile. it already dominates china's ev market, but the company has been pushing into asia and south america. pickups are popular. byd cars are not available in the u.s.. that is your bloomberg brief. jonathan: the timing of that launch is quite interesting. janet yellen landing in china,

byd waiting for the next tariff move from the administration. how far away is that move? lisa: really, is australia the big demand for pickup trucks? no, it is the united states. it always has been. annmarie: they have to implicate the market they can get access to, even without some sort of provisions on ev imports. it is more than 25% tariff currently to import the ev from china. jonathan: next on the program, apple searching for its next big thing. >> as a project, [indiscernible] apple has not lost the merger. lisa: that conversation shortly. jonathan: session highs up .50%. jobless claims in america delivering an upside surprise. 221. the estimate was 214 read your

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jonathan: equities on the s&p 500 positive by .50%. 221 for jobless claims, the estimate 214. next, payrolls, the estimate 213, the previous number 275. just on delay by 15 minutes. 4.35 on the 10-year. lisa: right now, it is not clear what jobless claims are going to do to the overall picture, but on the margins, just a little more softness. jonathan: that has been a theme, kind of on the margins. lisa: do you have anything better? jonathan: i went with kind of,

you went with on the margins. the dollar just a little bit weaker, the currency moving out by about a quarter of 1%. under surveillance, apple searches for its next big thing. >> the thing to use here is apple has not lost a merger, you know, it either has to be perfect or they don't do them. as a project, it is just a drop in sharing. [indiscernible] apple is not a high-growth business and there are variations in the challenge in the circumstances. jonathan: apple reportedly looking to push into robotics after his efforts to develop an electric car fizzled out. sources say they are working on a personal robot that would follow customers around their homes. apple is looking for sources of revenue to capitalize on ai as the tech giant comes off of its worst quarterly stock performance of more than a decade.

it is your challenge to explain to the three of us, what is this robot going to do? >> let's see if i can keep a straight face and explain it. jonathan: it is going to follow you around? >> it is born out of the car project that was scrapped. apple is thinking about over the next three decades, where it will find penetration, and they think it is in your home. they have us on the handset and iphone, and on the car, it looks like the project is done, but where do we spend the rest of our time, some of us spend it in our homes. it is an area that amazon has been looking into. we are talking about a small form factor, according to reporting that, yeah, it follows you around with a screen interface and also it has a more simple version where you have a screen on your kitchen counter, and they also follows you around and has mobility. jonathan: how does this go with the virtual reality headset?

how do those two things reconcile? ed: i actually don't know the link between them, but it is also born out of the car project. the energy was that they are thinking about the use case of virtual reality in the car because the original plan was that it was completely self-driving, a premium product where you don't have to do anything but just enjoy your time. and the technology underpinning this robot, according to the reporting, is the same. lisa: are we that lazy that we want relationships with the work? like previously, people had relationships with kids or dog, but now they follow you around? ed: i get the laziness part. this story is just evidence that the big companies really have not worked out yet the everyday human who will use ai in their daily life, and how they will make money as a consequence. the chatbot is very low hanging fruit, but, come on, i grew up

in the 1990's. i can envision that. lisa: do you want that? would it make you feel warm and fuzzy? ed: i'm not prepared to pay $3500. we don't know what the price point of the robot is. it is very early days. i think most people around the united states and the reaction of you have had is to put a smile on the headline of the story. annmarie: what is it doing? following you around and doing what? is it vacuuming? ed: so, there were similar products out there already, one of which is at amazon. think of it as a screen on wheels. annmarie: but i have a phone i carry around with me to do that. ed: but then you have to hold it in your hand. annmarie: how lazy having become? ed: i don't know if you saw the market reactions, saying apple

had a disappointed mute of games, but irobot actually soared, and the logic put on it is if apple is doing this, there must be a market through bouts that do trivial, meaningless things around the house. jonathan: how early stages this? is this a reaction to dropping the ev and moving to something new? ed: it is not. they started thinking about it in 2019, but all of these projects are multiyear, and we are far away. your skepticism is fair, since i don't think this is something apple is going to unveil in the next calendar year. it is something they are testing the waters with. jonathan: don't rely on me to project the future. i'm trying to understand the problem they are trying to solve. what is it? ed: it is a hard solution to the same thing that chatbot offers as a companion, you can pose questions to ask. i use alexa in every room of the

house, for things like requesting music, and i also add to a shopping list and other voice assistants available. lisa: what void is it feeling? what role is it feeling? is it trying to fold avoid of more than half of the revenue coming from the iphone and being really vulnerable to that? does this indicate how vulnerable they are with the lack of diversity with their products? ed: it is apple experimenting, and to answer, not knowing how we will interact with technology in the future. it is normal to use a voice assistant now. my fridge has wi-fi, and i can ask if i need to buy milk. why would a robot follow me around and make it easier? i don't know. jonathan: is that what you get from your fridge? ed: a plant-based milk, i live in california, yes. lisa: one of our viewers says, based on my experience with my

wife and kids, it is likely i could not get a robot to listen to me either. i could imagine that. come on, i sit over there! jonathan: i would love to talk about this, can you look at ford, up in the premarket by something like 1%. some changes to the lineup. you expect it to develop in the next year or so, but they are just pushing out plans again for ev. ed: a three row suv, and expensive product delayed two years that will help operational impact and a union impact because it was a plan they. already had i do not want to criticize our colleagues, there is no headline there should be. read the press release and look at the hybrid portion. they are accelerating their hybrid plans and expanding them. this is the story. jonathan: that is where demand is. that is where the market is. ed:ed: for all of the reasons. the reality of the economics, and one thing real quick, if you speak to the ceos, they will

admit that their base problem is that there are not enough ev models available. they cannot do anything about it. they have to push back the plans, and that's a big challenge. jonathan: what to you think of byd truck coming to market? ed: there are pickup trucks and other markets. interesting timing. byd offers commercial vehicles in the country, buses, consumer cars. i think is the treasury secretary and china? jonathan: just touchdown. ed: pretty interesting. byd is pretty noisy at the moment, and they have a hybrid strategy, as well, but i'm sure -- lisa: in all your coverage when you talk to the founders and executives of tech companies, do they want to see that relationship with china preserved with this cross-pollination that a lot of people are targeting the white house in washington? ed: they suggest that they will make the pilgrimage to china

when they can. they have two problems, supply chain and customer base. if you are and electronics, car or cloud company, china is your customer but also where you get here -- getting your product, as well. it is difficult to manage. jonathan: coming up tomorrow morning, this is what we will talk about, payrolls friday. fantastic lineup. wells fargo, jp morgan, a former fed governor, and mohamed el-erian. that conversation is going to dominate things tomorrow morning. lisa: just one more thing about the robot, i'm thinking about whether or not it feels a role or it is companionship at a time where it seems like -- jonathan: you are still on the robot? lisa: is it getting your way? do end up kicking it? does it talk to you? does it remind you of things

repeatedly when you don't do them? is it nagging? jonathan: is that personal? is that one of your kids? lisa: no, i'm just saying. annmarie: to jon's point, they have not figured out the use case because what problem is it solving? until we know, we don't know what it will do. everyone is concerned with alexa the city to you, national security, and you want to put a robot in your home, listening to all of your conversations and following you around? kind of weird. jonathan: i was trying really hard to talk about payroll. equities on the s&p 500, positive by .60%. jobless claims, upside surprise. payrolls tomorrow morning. yields pulling back by two basis points. 4.3293 for the 10-year. lisa: this is real. jonathan: the opening bell 34 minutes away. from new york city -- we have to

look at tomorrow. this was bloomberg surveillance. ♪

>> very good morning. rate cuts are coming. stocks 5300 on the s&p 500. we will count down to the open. it kicks in right now. >> everything you need to get started for the u.s. trading. this is bloomberg to open with jonathan ferro. manus: coming, futures edge higher.