>> from the heart of where innovation and money collide, this is bloomberg technology with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: i am caroline hyde at bloomberg's world headquarters in new york. ed: i am ed ludlow in san francisco. this is "bloomberg technology." caroline: semiconductor slide on reports that china told telecom providers to drop foreign chips. ed: overhauling the line of mac computers to add an ai-focused tech processor. caroline: and buying into the

chatgpt but with -- chatgpt boom with a stake in openai. publicly traded markets from the macro context, this is one where we see a search for safety. iran, israel, geopolitical risks heightened, and a squaring away of certain volatility that we've seen throughout the week when it comes to concerns about cpi, ppi as we move towards the weekend. equities for once are moving the opposite way of the bond market, even though the bond market has been selling off it managed to ride higher. today is the opposite paired we have seen money move into the havens that are the 10 year yield off by 8, 9 basis points. money moving there. money moving into the bloomberg dollar index, the highest we've seen since 2024. money coming out of equities as we worry about geopolitical tensions off by one point -- 1.4% on the nasdaq. moving on, having a look at what is happening at another key risk asset, actually surprisingly

flat for bitcoin over the course of a week. no volatility on a day-to-day basis, we have just come off of some of those highs. of course, dollar strength will mean a bit of a bitcoin weakness. what are you watching? ed: we have a load of technology stories this friday. apple is up .7% after a 4% jump on thursday. which, i think, was the biggest jump since may of last year. bloomberg is reporting a complete overhaul of the mac line. we will talk to mark later in the program. alphabet -- alphabet the parent of google a little back. recently, a lot more optimism the google is starting to get it right on ai. they will actually have product, particularly in the enterprise or commercial use case. pulling back a little bit this friday after a key milestone, we are keeping our eyes on the banks. bank earnings kick us off or earnings overall. we can see that it's mixed

fortunes. all of these three names moving to the downside. going into it for technology, ai, what is happening with ai and banks is a big theme, but they have their individual stories. i won't tell you the story. to knowledge bassett is the correct person to bring us the banks cap and joins us on set in new york. three big names all moving lower. sonali: all moving lower that is a bit of a reversal. citigroup beat profit estimates here and we saw an earlier gain. the market is lower on the day but some of the declines that you are seeing are quite stark. jp morgan for example intraday is having its worst day since march of 2023. we know that times are very different. ed, we have jp morgan coming up for six consecutive years of record revenue. the question is, when analysts expected them to raise the bar on net interest income, are they being conservative when they haven't done so, or are we seeing a consumer that is starting to come if not tapped out, starting to slow down a

little bit in the way that they're starting to borrow and spend on those credit card businesses in particular? some positive news for anyone watching "bloomberg technology" in particular is that you see an uptick in the underwriting businesses. ipos are back, baby. you're seeing it in the big banks. certainly, you don't see the advisory fees jumping back just as strong yet, but they are pretty optimistic over there at jp morgan on what things are starting to look like an investment banking. caroline: you didn't even mention ai. bringing us the latest on an earnings context. we brace ourselves for next week. now, all of the chip sectors under pressure. signing a light on intel of three point 4%. imd, one of the worst performers by almost 4%. every member of the semiconductor index, philadelphia semiconductor index is in the red. really, this is, as we see the reporting coming from the wall street journal at the moment,

beijing ordering telecom carriers, like title mobile -- like china mobile, to say no to foreign chips in their core networks by 2027. this is notable but perhaps unsurprising. ed: it is another development in china's effort to onshore their own semiconductor industry. the journal, one key part of their report is that actually the ministry for information technology has given a timeline, a timeline or deadline, for not just china mobile but china unicom and china telecom to swap out foreign chips. those being u.s. chipmakers, 25 percent revenue historically from china on the more commercial use case for chips, and put in a domestic one. the question is, is there a domestic supply chain ready to support that? caroline: by 2027 they may well hope so. almost front running this was a great piece out of bloomberg intelligence saying that chinese

export curbs are actually more of the risk then u.s. export curbs at the moment. this is tit-for-tat that you and i have been reporting on since we first got together in 2022 on this technology show. really thinking about how the u.s. is trying to restrain some of its own technology going into china while unsurprisingly china will be doing the same in reverse. this time, china's export restrictions will be key policy risk to some of the u.s. chip manufacturers that have been recent years built up their overall supply chain dependency on china. that is another interesting drop at the moment, whether it is export restrictions or at the moment import restrictions coming from china on u.s. tech. ed: we should get to someone who has skin in the game. joining us is the portfolio manager on the global technology leaders and sustainable futures technology funds. i think that i'm right in saying that if we take out amd as an example, it's one name that you have exposure to. the journal is reporting one specific industry case of a much

broader thing where china wants its domestic entities to use domestic chips. your response to that? >> well, to put a little of this and context, china are doing foreign chips and telcos. we don't see it as being a huge change because substantially that is a market that has been dominated by huawei. use of in-house chips has been around for a number of years now, since chip companies were banned. in terms of china telco, 5g, that peaked some time ago. other areas, they have had a significant correction. for china, who may want to place u.s. chips, but actually using

seven nanometer chips domestically, they don't have that supply yet. for them to get to five nanometer you will need to meet those for deployment which will ultimately need to be u.s. chips by that time period. we think that this is ongoing. in terms of the market it is not hugely significant for the areas we are focused on. caroline: let's go to where you are focused. this comes in the current context of a friend oversupply. we are all -- of a fret over supply. we are all envisioning a world of artificial intelligence, but we need the chips, the supply chain, we need the energy. what chips names are going to be doing well in spite of geopolitical headwinds? alison: when i started looking at technology stocks back in

1996, i think over one third of chips were actually built in the u.s.. over 30%. going forward to the pandemic, that was pulled percent. we see -- that was 12%. we see an ongoing focus of deglobalization that's part of national security. it is part of national interest for ai. it is also part of the overall focus on improving supply chain standards, esg standards throughout the technology supply chain. therefore, you think that actually manufacturing is becoming a more competitive advantage. many contract manufacturers, for example flextronics, the ability to manufacture at scale, much smaller margins and that could traditionally be easily moved among competitors, but that is becoming more difficult at scale

for many to move the manufacturing capacity around. we think that that is one way to see deglobalization. the chips act plays into where companies manufacture. caroline: as a global technology leaders in sustainable future tech fund, do you worry that you will have to sacrifice margin on some of the companies you are investing in globally because they have to manufacture in more expensive places to secure a supply chain? or can you start to play out opportunities more globally being overlooked as we have all just focused on a so-called magnificent seven? alison: i think that there is a significant focus on margin. the morgan stanley technology conference in march showed the two most used terms from the conference where ai and chips act.

it was margins and efficiency. that is one of the really interesting aspects of where we are. we have emerging new technology also happening at a time when we have this rise in the cost of capital and companies are focused on efficiency and improving margins. in that case, really interesting opportunities for investors. it is a stock pickers market. it is an easy to generalize on sectors. it is very much about active management, which is typical when you hit these technology inflection points. ed: in this stock pickers market, should you pick apple? apple is becoming increasingly attractive, it seems, to you guys. 12 month forward pe of 25 times. it had been downtrodden. now is it a good name? alison: we own apple within our portfolio, but it is not one of our largest holdings and has

not been for quite some time. apple is a tremendous company that led technology in each of the last three waves. the pc wave, mobile, internet, they started from product catalysts by apple. ai was started by the catalyst of microsoft, chatgpt, openai, and nvidia. apple's role in ai has yet to be defined. we are sure that over the longer term they will continue to innovate, but now they are not one of the early drivers of the generative ai wave. caroline: alison porter, a joy to have you on. thank you talking this through the winners and losers you are looking at. finishing on apple and its focus, or lack thereof, on ai. apple overhauling its mac line with in-house processors that focus on artificial intelligence. we will bring you the details

next. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

caroline: apple is looking to boost lagging computer sales with an overhaul of its mac line , planning to unveil an ai-focused processor. apple is aiming to unleash the updated computers late this year to early next year. joining us with the scoop is mark gurman. this is a very quick upgrade.

the cycle is so short. mark: thank you for having me. apple started off on a 1.5 year upgrade cycle and they have accelerated that. the chips came sooner than anticipated in october 2020 3, 6 month ago. the m4 chips will be coming one year after the m3 processors. they are planning imac, mac mini, mac pros for the release of 2024, early 2025. this is an accelerated timeline. it's interesting because this matches the timeline of processor upgrades that you see on the iphone and that you once saw on the ipad, but no longer. this is pretty significant in-house silicon is becoming a more important part of the company's story. other companies are so hyper focused on the cloud. apple is focused on in device chips.

ed: that is where we should focus, mark. the last guest is an apple shareholder. she tells us that to her mind apple's role in ai is yet to be defined. i look at where the stock closed on thursday after you published your report and the momentum today, and i think that the market sees an ai story. what are you hearing internally at apple on this side of it? mark: the ai story at apple exists and it is almost the complete opposite of what you're seeing from other companies. there is so much hype around nvidia because of their cloud infrastructure that powers artificial intelligence. chatgpt and gemini. they are all cloud products. apple is an on device product which makes it more privacy centric and in some cases can perform actions more quickly with no lag time because it is on the devices themselves.

the upgraded ai components that you are seeing on the m4 this year and the pro chip in the iphone 16 later this year, upgraded neural engines, improved processing, improved microphones to optimize artificial intelligence and siri on the device. apple has been shipping neural engines for several years now, but this is going to be dubbed the biggest upgrade to the neural engines since the component was first released several years ago. ed: bloomberg's mark gurman, brilliant. coming up, docusign is unveiling a new platform and expansion of the company strategy. we will discuss that with the ceo, next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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tokyo-based startup capitalizing on surging interest from japanese firms founded by x google researchers. partnerships with blue-chip companies in an effort to build out japan's ai ecosystem. they use small data sets to train low-cost genai models that could be used to ramp up a companies ai capabilities. plus, samsung is set to unveil a 45 billion dollar pushed into u.s. chipmaking as soon as next week. according to sources they will outline a project in texas after securing government grants. it is the latest push from the biden administration to revitalize chipmaking and the united states. the sector trying again on advancing the reauthorization of a u.s. spy bill. the foreign intelligence surveillance act failed to reach the floor on wednesday over gop

concerns over privacy in section 702. that provision allows the surveillance of foreign targets and the potential to warrant less -- warrantlessly surveilled americans. caroline. caroline: let's move away from politics to product announcements. docusign holdings had its annual momentum conference this week, and it set up some new products including an intelligent agreement management platform. let's dig into what that is. the docusign see you know, i'm pleased to welcome you. thank you for joining. how is this different from what people already experience? allan: so, the people mostly no less for signature. that will continue. if you think about agreements, they go through an entire journey. there is pain and efficiency in every part of the journey. if you think of salespeople when they reach an agreement in

principle to when they can finally sign an agreement or purchasing manager trying to figure out if their vendor is living up to their agreements, or a recruiter trying to close a candidate, those are at their core agreement problems and we are delivering a suite to help companies solve their entire range of agreement problems. caroline: i have a central depository and i know where my legal agreements are and i can use generative ai to summarize them to ensure that i'm learning the most -- to ensure that they are following a theme in line and purpose. why are they different from when you unveil in late may with their repository system and genai? allan: lots of folks do storage, and more generally manage documents, but agreements are very unique. they have a particular structure, there is a tremendous amount of data in them, and you need to understand the context. we are experts in that, the largest player. we focus on agreements and have a tremendous amount of domain

knowledge in the intricacies of agreements. there is workflow associated with agreements and we are bringing tools to help companies deliver those in a more delightful and digitally native way. ed: good morning. it is ed in san francisco. in the history of technology there are companies that completely reinvent themselves. take blackberry. they used to make smartphones and now they largely make automotive software. the e-signature product is still everything for you guys. i wonder if you're trying to tell your investors, users, audience, that you see a future for docusign where it is something different beyond e-signature where the main business isn't he-signature? allan: beyond ee-signature -- beyond ee-signature, but it will be critical for docusign for years to come, and after all the signature moment is pivotal, the highest value moment in the journey. we are expanding to providing a

full suite of offerings related to every step in the agreement journey. no one has done that before. i think that we are in the best position to do that with the trust, customer reach, and expertise and we are benefiting from recent developments in ai. i thing now is our moment. ed: you talked about docusign being in transition. considering where you are in that transition, give yourself a scorecard on your performance and where you have been in delivering that. allan: i like to measure outcomes. i wouldn't give myself an a yet. i think that we are making good progress. i would give it a b. we have done an excellent job revitalizing the innovation engine and bringing out a really robust suite of products informed by years of customer feedback and tremendous engagement from beta customers. now, it's time to take that to market and unroll it across the customer segments and geographies and industries docusign serves. that will be a multiyear

journey. the job isn't done yet, but this is a major milestone for us and we are excited about what the future holds. caroline: come tell us how it goes. allan thygesen, thank you for stopping by the studio. ed: coming up, buying into openai. we discuss with our chief futurist. that conversation next. it is -- let's be honest, a highly unusual method of getting into a very closely held funky private company. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials.

“the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for.

ed: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." ed ludlow here in san francisco. caroline: caroline hyde in new york. risk aversion as we worry about geopolitical risks. we are seeing tech stocks, all the benchmarks down. money goes into the bond market and the u.s. dollar. tech getting dragged down by chips. looking at bitcoin, lower as the dollar goes higher. basically flat over the last five trading days. looking at the individual movers. for once apple is on the higher side. 176.

they are looking to overhaul some of the processes in their mac lineup. up by .7%. chip stocks, every member of this index is in the red. wall street journal reporting china is looking to fight back when it comes to chip access. this is interesting. it has basically been a meme stock of late. dxyz. it is a fund that did you access to plad, stride, openai, this has been a way of doing it. it has made itself a meme frenzy. 1000% increase at one point. down by 22%. ed, it is not the only

investment vehicle doing that. ed: hold that thought. we will come back to it. kathy woods ark has announced it holds a stake in openai. a bet the ai industry will remake the tech landscape. joining us now is brett winton who is a rk chief futurist. we spoke last night. you got access to openai, a private company with a close profit structure through a special purpose vehicle. it is part of a broader thesis around foundation models. give me the short version of the thesis. brett: sure. ai software will revolutionize knowledge work. $13 trillion will be spent on ai software and $3 trillion of that will flow into what we think of foundation models.

openai is a prominent example. $3 trillion translates into an expectation of around $16 trillion in market cap. the global equity market is little more than $100 trillion as of the end of last year. $16 trillion is a big chunk in terms of our expectations for enterprise value footprint. ed: ark venture fund is made of 80% private companies, 20% public. you can get access to not just openai but spacex. why is it different or not the same but the destiny tech 100 that caroline was explaining at the start of the segment? brett: because our interboro

fund is continuously offered, the price that you pay would you buy it is reflective of the value of the underlying securities in it. if you buy $100 of an interval fund you get $100 of net value. the destiny fund has a net asset value of less than $5. they do not issue additional shares even if there is excess demand. if you buy the fund at $50, you are paying $50 for $5 worth of exposure. a little more than 1/3 of that fund is spacex. $100 of that versus our venture fund, you end up with more exposure to space x in our venture fund which is just roughly 4% of the venture fund. i understand people want access to innovation.

you need to be careful about how you get access to innovation. you should do so in a way where you are not buying $.10 worth of stuff for $1 worth of spending. caroline: a huge premium on dxyz. do you think it has something to do with the narrative? this blew up on reddit and other like-minded, retail focused areas. do you think your own ark fund will do the same? brett: i think that people are excited about innovation and looking for ways to access it. this happened to flash across social media channels in a way that inspired people. i want access to that company. practically, they are much, much more efficient and better ways to express that point of view.

you cannot tell before hand what will take off on reddit but you can tell when something will end in tears for people. when you are buying $.10 for $1, you end up something at the end of the day closer to $.10. there are different ways that premium should diminish over time. i would advise you to pay $1 and get $1 worth of stuff. caroline: well said. $16 trillion by 2030. do you wish you could access more openai when you are thinking of the rest of what makes up the fund -- space x, relation therapeutics -- how much of the ai models that to

take up of the fund? brett: there are five major platforms and each has the potential for amazing compounding returns. you are better off constructing a portfolio that has ai exposure and a taunus mobility extent -- autonomous mobility exposure. rb 100% right on ai -- are we 100% right on ai? it is unlikely cryptocurrencies will also dragged out to the right. bu exposing yourself to a number of platforms, you end up with more efficient exposure. ed: last night bloomberg

reported that x ai, musk's ai company, is trying to raise between $3 billion and $4 billion at an $18 billion valuation value. will ark try to add x ai given your coverage of tesla already? brett: i cannot comment on future decisions. i will say that ownership in x confers a 25% ownership in x ai. the company's future is closely intermingled. the competitive advantage is it has real-time access to everything that happens on x, which is where all news effectively breaks. in a world where historical data -- real-time data becomes more valuable.

having a real-time decision engine sitting at the front end of x is an interesting and compelling value proposition for x ai. ed: as you know last night i learned a lot about the venture fund and the mechanics of how it work. i told you it was very confusing. if you are a retail investor you can access through fidelity, titan and -- brett: sophia. ed: sophia -- brett: sofi. ed: sofi. it has move the needle for this fund. have you seen new customers investment try to rush in because they know they can have some exposure? brett: the honest answer is i don't know because we do not get that flow with that high of a degree of frequency. the decision to invest in these

companies is not a decision based on how it will attract attention. we underwrite the position and think they deliver outsized returns even relative to public market exposure. one of the benefits of this fund is we can look at -- this is an interesting company and there is a comparable company that this is cheaper than. the potential for returns across all these technology platforms is really profound and we want every investor to be able to have access to those returns. caroline: going back to the openai thesis as one of the winners of the $6 trillion market, what are the limitations of it going up into the right? there are concerns about the supply chain. this coalition being built because we are worried about energy, not just the amount of chips necessary but also, it is

a competitive space right now and there is a weird corporate government structure with openai. what are the risks for you? brett: there are corporate governance structure risks and you can underwrite those. we have assessed them but there is a degree of uncertainty. there are regulatory risks across all the technology exposures. nuclear power is an amazing technology that was effectively derailed because of the regulatory burdens upon it back in the 1970's. there is the potential that could happen with ai as well. we are worried about something so we deny ourselves all the benefit but still take on all of the risks. we think there is room for commercial models like openai and open-source models w like

whateb -- models like what web meta is developing. when you have this much market opportunity ahead of you you go for the asymmetric return. the one or two winners here will be profoundly valuable. we think an exposure is appropriate and actually necessary. ed: brett winton of ark investment management, great to have you on the program. thank you so much for your time. we will be back. stay tuned. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪ ♪ - [female narrator] they line up by the thousands. each one suffering with a story that breaks your heart. like ravette, who needed help, because every step brought her pain. their only hope is a ship unlike any other.

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caroline: this is "bloomberg technology." coming up, real yield noon eastern time. this is bloomberg. ♪ caroline: new york-based alleycorp announced it has raised $250 million and taking

on external investors for the first time. the person behind alleycorp, kevin ryan, founder and ceo of the business. before, you spent a lot of time and focus on small businesses, investing your own money. you had been the ceo of a different company. now, what is the reason you are bringing on external lps? kevin: thinking long-term. over the next 20-25 years, i think alleycorp will be a firm that is present and one of the leading firms. you want to have a sustainable source of money for the next seven funds. this is the beginning step four that. caroline: taking on the beginning businesses seeds. kevin: we start companies from scratch. i start six to eight companies a

year and we invest in 15-20. i have a portfolio of over 100 companies and i have a 24-person team. we see incredible opportunities. caroline: many of -- many would know. is that the type of company want to get into? tell us the thesis you want to get into. kevin: there are a couple different groups we are focused on. ai is important. i started a company called radical that is focused on ai for material science. it is a very specific and technical area. last year we started a company in assisted fertility. 20 years ago none of our friends were having their eggs frozen. it will continue to grow. we have a big health care portfolio. mental health areas in particular. psychedelics in particular. one company has raised over $50

million. the point is there are pockets and things to be done. technology continues to change the world and make it a better place and we want to recognize these ideas and help build these companies. ed: kevin, you called them pockets but i recognize outliers of activity. you see a lot of rounds being done in ai. i am seeing some in industrial technology. i guess the commonality of the last 12 months is each round, the check size is getting bigger and i wonder if you needed the $250 million from outside investors because you have to write bigger checks? kevin: our check size is not changing that much. i invested $250 million over the last few years. some of the companies like mongo , we started that 15 years ago with $1 million.

dwight merriman and i put that money in. we raised $400 million as a company. large companies take a lot of capital. early-stage investors are taking the most risk and getting the most return by coming up with the idea in the beginning. there are a lot of late stage funds that step into help fund this. ed: were you able to be selective with lps over these lps coming to you and saying, i want some exposure to what is happening in ai, can you offer that to me? kevin: we were fortunate that we were able to be selective. we went to family offices. it is a small list of people. families that add value. they came from the health-care care industry, technology industry. we can call on them if we want to do some due diligence. i'm happy with the list of investors. there are not large institutions, we do not have

pension funds. at this point they would add less value. caroline: i started this conversation by calling you the godfather of nyc tech because nyc tech is getting serious. you have been there for long times during their businesses to build and invest in. are we drinking our own kool-aid? kevin: it is the fastest-growing tech center in the u.s. 25 years ago there was no tech. people asked me why double-click was in new york and not boston. no one would say that today. new york already today employs as many people in tech as san francisco. 10 years from now new york will be a much bigger center for employment for tech and we will have some of the biggest companies. this place has human talent. the top graduates from the ivy league. they want to live in new york city. that is what drives our industry

and will continue to drive the industry. caroline: i am pretty sure there is still room for both of us. kevin ryan from alleycorp. ed: we have another bloomberg exclusive. adorably -- adobe. the new findings show the company relied in part on ai generated content to train firefly, including those same rivals. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

ed: when adobe released its firefly image -- the artificial intelligence model was trained mainly on adobe stock images. a database of hundreds of millions of licensed images. behind the scenes adobe was relying on part on ai generated content to train firefly including from those same ai rivals we have been talking about for many months. bloomberg broke the story. let's focus clearly on what the reporting on earth. -- reporting un earthed. >> adobe has spoken publicly

about how firefly is really different from these rival image generators. it turns out it included a bunch of ai generated images, some of which are from mid journey. this is something i uncovered in my reporting. we work together to pull the story together and found the company had done this. it was clearly done on purpose. it is not a huge amount of training data but it is in there nonetheless. caroline: what is important is this was deemed the ethical version of ai. there has been some murkiness and some of the other rival foundation models we have seen. i am interested to what adobe said in response. i am sure they were aware of some of these synthetic images they were bringing in.

is there any risk of ip in this one? rachel: adobe was totally aware of what it was doing. we were looking at discord groups the company runs. it had people from the company talking on discord groups about including these images. they paid out a bonus in september two all the people whose images were used to train the first version of firefly and that included people such as one of my sources who only contributed ai generated images and most of those were made with mid journey. caroline: fascinating. rachel metz, it is a great story. so much coming out on adobe. this does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." ed: it has been a pretty intense week, markets-wise. now earnings season comes and hits you in the face.

there was a lot of great bloomberg reporting on apple and adobe and insightful interviews. brett winton from ark in particular. we put the pod on the bloomberg platforms. happy friday. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪ so, what are you thinking? i'm thinking... (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride? swim with elephants? wait, can we afford a safari? great question. like everything, it takes a little planning. or, put the money towards a down-payment...

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