then you don't stop. the idea that we have saved five million people's lives, it's overwhelming. it's everything. emma: i don't want my daughters wasting time thinking about how much they weigh, what they look like and i think fashion has done a terrible job of enforcing an unrealistic beauty idea. francine: the entrepreneur

driving the beauty and power while trying to redefine the world of fashion. m agreed has partnered with one of the most famous families in hollywood. she's chief executive and cofounder of good american, which she launched in 2016 with khloe kardashian. she is also the founding partner of skims alongside chloe's sister, kim. emma: as a young black female entrepreneur, the only thing i could do was what i know from my experience in the truth is, i didn't set out to create a company that was deeply rooted in the principles of inclusivity and diversity. i set out to make a company right for me. francine: in this episode i speak to emma about her rise to the top, how she measures success and why diversity remains elusive in the world of fashion. thank you so much for joining us on bloomberg. emma: thank you for having me. francine: you represent so much for so many people. all the businesses you've

touched turned into -- turn into gold. did you ever think you would be such a success? emma: no, most of the businesses i touched in the earlier days didn't turn to go. i love this idea of older -- overnight success in i would love to perpetuate that, but there has been a lot of trial and error along the way and i feel like i've probably done every job imaginable from having a paper route when i was 12 to working in a deli, to working in shops and starting things that were less successful in things that had medium success. i feel like it has been a long journey and i'm thankful that now i'm 41 years old and i'm starting to see that this type of success is really great. francine: you always wanted to succeed, is at would actually actually makes success? emma: i think so. i think there is an element of luck in any of these things. when you take apart what luck means, i really leave when

opportunity meets preparation, i was always prepared. when my opportunity came along i was ready to work for it. then there is that old adage of a lot of hard work and i had to really put the time in. francine: did you always want to be an entrepreneur? emma: if you would've asked me when i was a kid, i came from east london and i did not know anyone who had their own business, everyone that i knew went to work to pay their bills with usually very little joy. even the idea of doing something that felt purposeful, meaningful or something you enjoyed wasn't part of my understanding. i tried really hard to get close to what it is that i love, which is the fashion business, but i didn't ever think about starting my own thing. i think it came out of a necessity. i was like, who would employ me and pay me what i think i deserve. i left the company because i said, they are not paying me properly so i will have to pay myself.

francine: age 24 and that was the determination of making something. emma: i felt like i was adding a lot of value. i think so people in their careers have this feeling, adding a lot of value and i'm not being renew many -- renew or did for what i bring to the table. what do you do at 24? you don't really have that many options. so i did what a lot of people do, i went to a company and tried to do my best at the position that i was given. thankfully somebody saw that and decided, maybe we will set this girl up on her own. but i talked to so many either young people that i employ are people that are trying to get noticed that i think it's good advice. no one is ever going to look at you to do the next thing unless you are excelling where you are today. sometimes, just buckling down and doing the absolute best job wherever you are is the best way to get ahead. francine: making the step of leaving, you have to be brave and it's not always easy. emma: it wasn't always easy.

i remember the first time i got a little bit of backing and they said, you are going to be in charge of your own p&l and i broke it down and i googled that, like what is that. sometimes naivety is the best thing for any entrepreneur. i didn't know what i didn't know what i had to learn fast and fail fast that i think i've done, throughout my career, i haven't made the best choices every time, but i think art of being a good entrepreneur is knowing when things are not going right in knowing and i've surrounded myself with the right people continuously. francine: what's the biggest mistake you've learned from? emma: what i had my first agency and i was killing it in. there was this idea that the company was completely exportable. i went to the u.s. opened an office in new york in the office went well, than i failed miserably, under infested, did not bring the right people in, that whatever i was doing would translate and i

-- and it didn't. i learned that the hard way by starting something, dragging people there and having to close it. there's nothing like an embarrassment to humble the soul. i packed everything up and had to pack my own office. that was fantastic learning, but i never let it break my spirit. i really truly took those learnings. when i started my second company in l.a. i was like, this is where i need to do something different, so i packed up my family and moved to l.a.. i knew if i was going to do something it would be successful. i would need to do it myself and i would need to be in the country and give it my absolute all. francine: is that giving time to understand the market? it was difficult to do it from not being in the city? emma: being in country, being part of that fabric of culture has been important, especially for my business good american that is about what's happening at the moment, like, where are

we in society as women, where is fashion, and i think that has been important. francine: that's a bold move actually selling denim to americans. emma: i actually doubted myself and me. but again, coming to a business with mission and purpose at the heart of what we do is what sets us apart. i think there are so many brands, but how do consumers make choices these days? we make our choices based on what we believe in, what we want our children to see. i am the mother of four, so i know too well that i don't want my daughters wasting time thinking about how much they weigh, what they look like, and i think fashion has done a terrible job of reinforcing the unrealistic tea idea. with good american the premise of the brand was to say, we will make close for all women, we will let women make choices and we will take some of that pain out of what it means to be left out of the conversation or not represented in fashion.

and we've done that pretty well, i think. francine: you had this idea of making women feel good. who do talk about it with first? emma: funny enough, my husband. i think we are both entrepreneurs. it's natural for me to bounce any idea backwards and forwards with him. i have worked for years in the fashion business. i have been a part of the problem, it's like i have seen firsthand how some fashion businesses make women feel. there's one thing being really focal, and being an instagram activist and talking about something, there's a difference of putting your money where your mouth is and doing something about the problem, that's what i did with that business. it was about how to take everything i know and i've learned and do the opposite. i think as a young black female entrepreneur, the only thing i could do was what i know from my experience. the honest truth is, i did not set out to create a company that was deeply rooted in principles and inclusivity on diversity.

i wanted to make a company right for me and my friends. i knew if i had a problem, chances are somebody else does. that's where so many businesses are created, when you are solving a problem that works for you and the consumer. francine: is there danger that entrepreneurs will look for a gap in the market? >> -- emma: that's one way to approach things. i go with my gut. my gut instinct tells me a lot and i tend not to go against my gut. i would be lying if i said i didn't run numbers and feel like there was commercial opportunity. nobody makes 19 sizes of anything without thinking, i reckon i can sell them along the line. i think so much more of what i've done has been in response to a feeling that i've had and then acting on that feeling. emma: -- francine: were you surprised by how many other people felt like you? emma: it's one of those things that on paper, good american has

been such a massive success, but if you go back to day one, everyone is like, you sold a million dollars in day one. 9:00 i was the hero, 11:00 i had no stock left and everyone was like, you have no idea what you're doing, do you? and that was my first lesson in what it means to be excellent because i just started emailing people and i was like, how long do i think people will wait. turns out, not that long, not as long as it would take me. i was like, can you help me get more fabric, will you aid weight -- weight eight weeks for a peer of genes? somewhere worked out but what people respond to his brands that have authenticity. there's a level of honesty that's needed. i said, we had no idea how popular and how much this was going to chime with customers. if you could just be patient, we will get you something. turns out we know we messed up and we don't want to disappoint you. there's a part of that honesty that really challenges people. we knew -- they knew we did not

feed a line. it was not written by pr because i cannot afford pr at that time. how i speak to my mom or something. francine: emma attempts to break one of the last taboos in fashion and how success is making her reassess what it means to be an entrepreneur. ♪

francine: emma has made a fortune by founding inclusive companies. good american is the biggest launch in history when it made $1 million in sales on its first day. she tells me about her success in the challenges that were made across the industry. fashion hasn't done enough when it comes inclusivity and diversity, but hasn't done something in the last five to 10 years? emma: fashion, as quick as it is

to change, like in this kind of aesthetic, it's very difficult to change a system. i think that comes down to who makes decisions. the people that make decisions in fashion don't typically look like me, they are not typically women. when you look at who's at the helm of the biggest players, it tends to be the same type of people. so i honestly think there's a lot of work to be done, progress has definitely happen, but you only have to look at new york fashion week, which is the biggest and most commercial to see there so much tokenism around what inclusivity really means. and i think that, especially when it comes to size, we are back where we were 20 of 30 years ago when we had one single model menu locked down the catwalk. now we are in a situation where i can't remember. it's less than 3% of models that came down the catwalk were above a size 12. a size 12 is less than average. there's so much work to be done and it is the last allowed

taboo. we are allowed to disclose people because of their size. it's really crazy. francine: i was reading something where people feel rubbish because they don't feel represented and they feel something is wrong with them. emma: that's the reason i started the brand because if you go back seven years ago i was pregnant with my second child, a girl, and i really felt that deeply, like how much time and effort you can spend and waste time. to me it's like, if you take out some of that worry and the strife around how much we think about our looks, and instead put our energies into saying, i need a pay raise, i think i should do something else with my life, part of it was like, what happens if you shift and change the paradigm of how people see themselves? it's a really trite sentence, but representation matters. when you see a version of yourself, there is a level of acceptance. i want to level the playing field and say, we all look

different, we all are different and that's ok. that's not what we should be thinking about. we should be thinking about equal pay. those of the things we should use our time for as women. let's just get an equality going then. and that is throughout the workplace and all of the industries. i feel like is such a huge impact on us, and i don't just mean fashion media, i mean the media at large. we need better representation everywhere in society. francine: is that why you are doing dragons then? emma: you asked that i think about being an entrepreneur and i never thought about being an entrepreneur. as i got more successful i thought a lot about what it means to be an entrepreneur because they talk about it being small at the top but it's not. it's minuscule. it's the same people doing the same deals, giving each other money who all went to one of five or six schools. to me, because i'm on shark tank in the u.s.

the idea of dragon's den and that you could be an archer per nearer with your background and absolutely no access to funding and getting a check to do something that mean something to you and can mean something to your family, why win it you? it wasn't so long ago that i was out fundraising. if i could be a small part of somebody's journey that wouldn't usually get the opportunity, to me it makes sense. it's not just about women of color. if you didn't have the means or the education to know anything differently than getting up and going to work every day, that does it mean to say you cannot have a successful business, i am like walking proof of that. i left school and i was 16 years old and i have done pretty well. to me it's about leveling the playing field and i love the idea of being seen on tv and people having that idea that they can be successful if they just get an opportunity -- opportunity. francine: in the u.s. there is a badge of honor of trying and

failing again and starting again, i don't know if there is a stigma in the u.k., but people are less old. emma: i don't think they are less bold, we are different here, we don't celebrate. i find it difficult because i feel like i am so celebrated, especially where i'm from. people in london are nice to me. two girls came up to me in this office and said they loved me, high five. things are shifting. when i'm all about is celebrating people. it doesn't all work out but that's part of life. i think we have to be honest with ourselves about what it takes and how hard it is. francine: it's hard because you need to build a team around you, you need funding. what have you found hardest? emma: if i'm really honest, probably the funding. without the right background and circles around you, access is really difficult. i raised my first check for my clients because i built a

business in the fashion media. so i had lots of clients. the only rich people i knew were clients of mine that had been paying me retainers. so that was the easiest way. i was like, hi, remember me, would you like to give me $3 million? most of them said no but a couple of said yes. just knowing where to go in the beginning, they are the barriers that most people face. but once you are in it, i think that it is so much about the journey. none of this stuff happens like it does on social media. i think just knowing that you are on a journey -- actually, i think the best way to start a business is with no money, you don't need to go out and raise tons of finances, you need to figure out what it my creating, where is my audience and one of my uniquely good at. when you figure out what you are good at, you know who you need around you to make something work. francine: kris jenner was part of your journey. how did that shape the entrepreneur you are?

emma: i think i have been lucky to be surrounded by so many incredible entrepreneurs, starting with my clients, also my husband, being around people like chris, and also just having access and listening and watching brilliant people as i grew up. i am one of those people who can learn from anything. i read books about being an entrepreneur before i even really knew what one was. i really is someone who would take from any situation. francine: emma tells me why diversity is a superpower and what she's doing to try to prove access and opportunity. ♪

francine: emma is known as the founding partner of skims with kim kardashian. it was valued at $4 billion last year. i continued the conversation by asking about the business and her commitment to supporting diversity and black owned companies. skims is huge. did you ever think you would have an underwear shaping company? emma: skims has grown so unbelievably. that is kim kardashian's company, it was her idea from the outset, i honestly believe that we never thought that it would just be one thing. we always thought about it as being this huge company that

would do lots of things. again, that company was based on just doing one product really, really well. i think that's testament to any great company. we had so much focus in the beginning. we were like, we will make superior shape where in every sumo size and color and it worked out incredibly well. francine: when is the right time to either grow or go into a slightly different branch? emma: in good american, the first time we ever thought of going into another category was because customers asked us to. ethic it's a really smart way to think about your growth in your development in a business. you really have to listen and you cannot take that commentary just the good things. your customers will tell you what you need to hear, they will also tell you what you don't want to hear and it's like a big mirror. that's one of the things with social media that's so important in business now because it's just a reflection of everything you are doing, a reflection of

your consumer base. if you listen carefully, the data will tell you things. all you need to do is tune in. when i think about the category expansion, it really is in regards to or in relation to what customers are asking me for and we make those decisions based on that. francine: how do you build a team that can say it's not a great idea? emma: ethic i spent 25% of my time hiring. i would take speculative meetings even if i don't have a position that is available because you are only as good as your team. and to do what i do, you have to surround yourself with experts like people that are really, really good at what they do. part of that is being able to stand up to you and you being able to listen. so, when i think about myself as a leader, i really lead with empathy because i need people to say to me, that is a bad idea or based on my experience because my experience is limited. francine: do you think it's different being a leader in 2024

than 2004? emma: 100% because the workforce has changed immeasurably. we think post-pandemic, also the generation we are dealing with is entirely different and you have to create a company that can succeed with the workforce that it has at its disposal. francine: younger? emma: younger people have a different expectation of their life, their work and how those two things fit together. like it or not, covid changed the working environment forever. you either adapt or die. i might have a certain opinion about how i want people to come into a space, into a business. at the end of the day, you have to work with where the culture is at and i'm not here to fight the culture. it is what it is, how do we work to maximize this because at the end of the day we all want the same thing. francine: how do you spot a good entrepreneur or if you are all in? emma: i am so personality

driven. a good ideas a good idea and a white space. if i meet someone that just does something to me, i feel it immediately. i'm like, it's you. francine: fire in the belly? emma: mad passion. i could get excited about an origami company. i'm that person. i respond to that because that's who i am. i also respond to the fact that sometimes you see yourself knowing that someone hasn't gotten another opportunity or a chance. i will have a crack or a go at you. francine: what is emma going to do in five years? emma: i don't know, lie down. take a break. it's true, i will find something else. i'm really focused on a lot of my nonprofit work these days. on the chairwoman of an incredible organization called the 15% page, which is really focused on creating some semblance of balance in the

world of black owned business, figuring out how to show up in retail with more balance. i honestly believe that any way that i can use my voice, use my influence and use the knowledge that i've built after all this time, for good, is a good use of my energy. >> why is it so underfunded still? emma: it's about access. i think about this all the time. talent is fairly evenly distributed, opportunity isn't. we need to give more opportunity to people regardless of education, race, background, age. it's about leveling the playing field. we come back to the same idea. who gets to be an entrepreneur, who gets to make decisions? the more we can open that, the better it is for everybody. i have proven that diversity is a superpower. the more people you have at the table, the more customers you could serve, it's good business, it's not about being holier than thou are giving somebody an opportunity that doesn't deserve

it, it's about being able to service as many customers hands -- as you can and the more minds that reflect your customer base, the better. francine: thank you for joining us today. emma: thank you so much. ♪ you're probably not easily persuaded to switch mobile providers for your business. but what if we told you it's possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75% a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers? you can get two unlimited lines for just $30 each a month. all on the most reliable 5g mobile network—nationwide. wireless that works for you. for a limited time, ask how to save up to $830 off an eligible 5g phone when you switch to comcast business mobile. don't wait! call, click or visit an xfinity store today.