>> from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in silicon valley and beyond, this is "bloomberg technology" with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: live from san francisco, i am caroline hyde. ed: and i am ed ludlow. this is a special edition of bloomberg technology. we will speak to the ceos and

visionaries driving change in silicon valley and beyond. caroline: we will be speaking with the seals of arm and more as part of our special. ed: we will push ahead to our keynote speakers later today that include evan spiegel and more. artificial intelligence is probably the overriding theme of the event. it is ai everything, even in some cases if you are not an ai company. caroline: if you are not the ai company, you will think about how you can adapt to it and bring out the productivity. how do we live up to the hype? the valuations are extraordinary. they have been heavy in the public markets. we have seen real use cases. ed: these events are always very interesting and very engaging. everyone is very positive. in the background there is a talent wall and people are running out of cash.

we have to ask difficult questions. caroline: and geopolitics. how are you navigating the issue of china as well. so much talk about. here in the now we are talking about one key infrastructure plane when it comes to artificial intelligence. we will be talking about the chip design firm arm which has bounced off of lows in terms of share price. down by 1.3%, coming out after the bill with its earnings. even though they absolutely smashed it in terms of the fourth quarter and their full first quarter. let's dig into some of that caution with rene haas, the arm ceo. wonderful to have time with you. there seems to be a worry about your forecast. are you being cautious? rene: thanks for having me. we just came off a record year in terms of revenue. we were up 20%. we have been over 20% from

disclosure 23 and 22 -- fiscal year 23 and 22. we signal to the markets yesterday that in 25, 26, 27, we can see the growth continuing. we have incredible visibility to our business and we are very confident about this growth going forward. ed: we are just seeing your shares go into positive territory. up 0.6%. the underlying story is the build in ai infrastructure. we are talking about data center power by gpu's. your numbers were good. tell me about the underlying demand, the long-term and the addressable market that you think is either intact or is not. rene: i think this ai buildout as you describe or expanding capacity to run these foundation models to do more training, we

are at the very beginning. when you start to think about the capabilities that this could unleash whether it is around healthcare, armor research, productivity gains, call centers, we are in very early days. that all starts with having to do this level of training and entrance in the cloud. it will also find itself into every single edge device whether it is a to see, your smartphone -- whether it is a pc, your smartphone or your car. we have incredible visibility to where this is all going which is where we are confident in the -- which is why we are confident in the growth rates. power and efficiency is key. it is what arm is good at. we are seeing the most complex applications moving to arm. the most sophisticated trading ship on the planet, grace blackwell, that is based on arm.

caroline: so you are managing to think that you will be the server play as well as the pc play and the cell phone play. i want to focus on the cell phone play. how are we looking from the smartphone perspective? is the market looking strong? we have many mixed messages coming from china for example. rene: overall what we have seen in the smartphone market has been a good growth rate in terms of royalties. our version nine which is now being used in many of the premium mobile phones, that drives a higher royalty rate for arm. there are some complex cpus that go into that that is better for arm. one of the things we are seeing with not just the smartphones is that as the ai models are moving so fast, the hardware cannot keep up with the software. the software innovation is happening so quickly that by the time the hardware is ready to run those models, everyone

wishes they had more performance and more efficiency. what does that mean for arm? it is driving growth in the licensing activity. people are looking to do more and more, design chips faster and faster. that is good for us going forward. you will see more innovation happening not only with smartphones but across all edge devices. caroline: what is interesting is it is hard to keep up with the pace of geopolitical change as well. the latest news coming from huawei where it will not have access to qualcomm intel chips. you are affected by u.s. policies. has this impacted your business, limitation of huawei's access to chip design and technology? rene: that issue that you are referring to was when huawei was placed on the entity list in 2019 or 2020, companies had to apply for a license to exempt

them to ship to huawei. a lot of companies asked for those licensees. they got those licenses. now they are being revoked. we don't follow that category. we did not apply for any licenses at the time. we complied with the export controls as they relate out. it is a nonevent for us in terms of what you are seeing with qualcomm and intel. ed: we are speaking live to the arm ceo rene haas. we are on the ground here at bloomberg tech in san francisco. last week christy was on the show telling caroline and i this was the last year. you gave a slightly different answer. maybe it is not the year of the ai pc. you don't want to see just one supplier. you said you would like to see two or three. what is your beef with qualcomm? rene: one large ecosystem has

already moved on in a very big way. apple is 100% based on arm. all of the apple silicon is based on arm. you see amazingly good products relative to what they have delivered. fantastic battery life. performance, no fans. the windows market is different. it is highly fragmented. lots of different players. the ecosystem matters. the channel matters. price points matter. gaming machines versus low-end devices that are cloud enabled. what is all that mean? it generally has meant that vendor choice multiple options to provide a full scope is what matters. what i'm hearing is over the next couple of years the windows ecosystem will be able to afford that. over the next two or three years i believe windows on arm will be real. you will see multiple players,

multiple price points, multiple units. you will see many in the market share start today the kind of performance. i think you will find its way to the windows ecosystem. ed: i want to talk about geography. we are here in san francisco. there is a lot about america's r&d focus on ai related chips. are you seeing this equivalent activity in europe? any of your customers outside of those markets? rene: i'm in san francisco today too so i will see you a little bit later. in general i think the geopolitics are something that all tech ceos are having to figure out and work with. ai models, foundation models, sovereign clouds, thinking about what level of training takes place in a country versus outside the country, where the weights sit. these are all the kinds of things politicians have never had to think about in the past. we are involved in a lot of

those conversations whether that is in the united states, europe and really just trying to understand it. the lawmakers in these jurisdictions are trying to figure it all out. as i mentioned before, as the models are moving so fast, it is difficult for everyone to keep up. we are exceptional to all of those discussions. caroline: what has been keeping up is your valuation. boy. do you think there is too much exuberance around ai valuations out there? are you going to make the most of it by listing in the u.k. too? rene: i don't think about the valuations as much as i think about the ai opportunity which i frankly believe is under called in terms of what it will mean relative to society and what it can do for our planet. i think we are in very early days in terms of the capabilities of what this can unleash for our society. incredibly excited to be a part

of that. but i don't think we are part of a high cycle at all. there is a lot of innovation taking place. the innovation that is taking place and the inventions we are seeing, it is just breathtaking. i don't personally view it as a height cycle is all -- hype cycle at all. rene: you will be -- ed: you will be with us later today. your stock is pretty high. coming up on the program, we will be joined by the ceo of hugging face clement delangue. this is "bloomberg technology."

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ed: welcome back to the special edition of "bloomberg technology." we are live at the bloomberg tech event. artificial intelligence is the overarching theme. we have a pretty good guest to talk about that. the ceo of hugging face. you made this prediction which we will hold due to account on by the end of this calendar year and we're not even halfway, open-source models would be equivalent to the best close

sourced models. give us a status check on that prediction. clement: open-source now is better than closed source for most use cases. we specialize in models on companies like data sets. i have my ray-ban glasses here. we are seeing so many use cases being powered by open-source models and most of the big tech companies are now publishing open models. just last month we have seen apple using open models and hugging face we have seen nvidia, microsoft. all of them are publishing open models. ed: there might be some people in attendance who don't agree with him. caroline: microsoft published one quickly in some of the reporting because they had not stress tested. they had not whittled out some of the toxicity checks in particular. how are you feeling about the way in which largely was models

are growing and the way in which governance is developing around it? clement: the most important question is concentration of power. for such an important technology you do not want a world where just a few companies are controlling it. caroline: that is the world we live in. clement: i don't think so. what we are seeing with open-source you can actually distribute power more and you want to reduce the gap between the most powerful companies and the rest of the world. nunnally other companies but policymakers, -- not only other companies but policymakers. we are reducing the gap between the most powerful companies and the rest of the world and that is what creates a sustainable balanced future. ed: it is a conversation we are going to have all day long. you point out that open-source allows more groups to go to work on it. the problem is as we are

learning the tens of billions of dollars it takes to train models with tens or hundreds of parameters and then you go lower down and now what we are hearing is that folks who are doing this are running out of cash. are you seeing that as well? clement: you can use that which has been very costly and use a small amount. there are only one million models trained by companies and a lot of these companies are very small and do not have big budgets. today every single company has to build their own ai otherwise they run the risk of being left behind. that is what we are seeing. one interesting point is that we will need to find ai companies

better business models. that is what you hinted at. something that we focus on at hugging face, we are looking to be close to profitable. we are starting to see that there are some ways to generate revenue and not turn insane amounts of compute for ai startups today. caroline: on that profitability, how many paying customers do you have? you have one little model -- one million models. clement: more than 10,000 paying customers. more than 4 million ai builders using our platform. i think we found the right balance between monetizing especially with big companies that are using the platform in private. ed: enterprise companies. clement: exactly.

in order to fund all of the free community open-source work that we are doing and that will always stay open source and free. caroline: i want to go back to what i was saying about people running out of cash. you put out a recent interesting call on x. i am here if you need me. if they are good people building interesting businesses but running out of money, we can be a home for you. are you making acquisitions? clement: we made some acquisitions. we will have announcements in the next few weeks. caroline: don't tease us. clement: in general in ai, you will see more m&a. i think a lot of companies took very risky bets. a lot of them are running out of money. at the same time you have other companies like hugging face and others who are successful enough to be homes. some of the m&a will be weird. we see that happening a little bit with big tech. ed: married to necessity rather

than choice. one thing that is good about summits like these, by the way, we can go around the room and ask you are shopping for. you get all of these people in one place. you use the time you have been in san francisco because you are up in seattle. clement: miami. ed: miami. apologies. you have been interviewing candidates. is that just a function of the best candidates being here in this city? how wide are you casting your net? clement: i think san francisco still the heart of technology and ai. so much talent. so many interesting companies. so many interesting big technology companies being here that it is import for us to have a foot on the ground here. we have a team already here but we are also hiring community leads for hugging face here. caroline: applications being taken? clement: yes.

this really massive fight and struggle for ai talent right now with inflation everywhere. what we are seeing is that when you have a mission that is interesting to candidates like with open-source, then you can attract good talent. that's one of the reasons why we are seeing big tech doing more print source. if you look at meta- caroline: is meta your favorite? clement: as long as companies contribute to the field with open-source and open research, it benefits everyone. if you look at ai five years ago , most of it was open-source and open science. it changed a little bit when some companies started to make money. i think it would be positive for the world to get back to an ai domain that is more open and

transparent and inclusive. ed: you told us you would announce news when you are ready. caroline: for weeks. we are holding you to it. thanks for having you. we will let you get back to your breakfast, the ceo of hugging face. a great conversation. coming up, another great conversation. we have so much live for you here in san francisco. people are having their coffee. we will get you all of the exuberance in a moment. this is bloomberg.

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caroline: welcome back to the special edition of "bloomberg technology." live in the heart of san francisco, all the great and good of industry movers and shakers. academics, the companies, the ceos and notably the investors. this is an interesting one for the investor base. we have potentially a new language model? ed: what we learned last night is that x ai, the ai company started by elon musk which has been built up pretty quickly, is closing this mega funding round. the thing we have learned over the last year or more, the numbers involved are not that eye watering. caroline: is the money he racing an awful lot? ed: i think it has been reported up to $6 billion. i took a phone call this morning

saying look past the cash and start asking whether x ai has access to gpu's. it is good gossip for the bloomberg tech event. caroline: it is. ultimately, who are the investors? what we have seen in 2023 and 2024 has been corporative ec. you have sequoia capital which has been incredibly active. the amount of money necessary means nvidia has to be a player or google. ed: the head of the musk family office has been talking a lot about what has been going on. coming up, another conversation around artificial intelligence. someone who is actually pretty straightforward and direct about what is going on in industry. caroline: she was building this

business back in 2020. ed: what is interesting is may has a little bit of cash in the bank. that might help. we will be right back. this is bloomberg technology.

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caroline: welcome back to a special edition of "bloomberg technology." an event is upon our hands that has to do with artificial intelligence. to continue that conversation right here right now at the bloomberg tech settlement -- bloomberg tech summit is may habib who has been doing generative ai. you have an enormous chunk of change. how does it feel with everyone trying to surge in on the

opportunity? how are you standing out and making sure that you keep the clients you already have? may: it is really exciting to see all of the investment. we have been working on this for 10 years previously in a machine translation startup. to see all of this attention is amazing. the way we stand out is with a really differentiated platform that helps enterprises with the last mile which is 90% of the work in ai. ed: you have been on a ship -- you have been on the show a number of times. each time we reflect on the rate of change for the industry which is great for your company. clement delangue of hugging face gave us the numbers of the size and scope of how they are doing. is it close to profit or near profit? tell us about your company and how it is doing. may: it has been an incredible rate of change. when we started we knew ai would

be better than people at reading and writing and that has certainly happened. we now say if you can write it, you can build it. it is a way to build new technology. building ai apps is still quite difficult. the rate of change of what we have been able to do, it is hundreds of enterprise customers, hundreds of thousands of users, thousands of applications in production. a lot of this question around how you get applications from poc to scale, we have been doing that for years. it has had a tournament's impact on the growth of the business. ed: some relatively new work on models. tell us about the latest and greatest on the tech side of your offer. may: over the past few months we have introduced vision as a capability into the platform. we have launched in 32 languages at really high quality, beating human benchmarks.

next up for us, large reasoning models. software that writes software, which we are really excited about. being able to go from work substitution to real work, reinvention and orchestration using ai. caroline: at the very start you said 90% of the work is not just getting the large language model in the door but it is implementing it, ensuring that you get operational efficiency in your workflow. what are some of the best ways you are seeing it being harnessed? what are the worst ways? everyone is waiting for this eureka moment where our exuberance around ai makes a real difference. may: there are 1500 ll,'s. if those were the answer, everyone would have the program of their dreams, but that is not the case.

our platform does this collaborative interface that combines the llm with all those building blocks and that is. the llm's need so much more context to be able to do what customers need them to do. caroline: you said before that large language models will be commoditized. the foundational models and commoditized from the consumer perspective. where does the value end up lying? there are so many people trying to fix problems using generative ai and a lot of them are coming to you to try to be bought or helped because they are running out of money themselves. may: there is a lot of air being sucked out of the room by big tech but there is still a ton opportunity for big startups. microsoft has to build for the lowest common denominator. individual productivity is very different than team productivity. even though it feels like we're going to go through sort of a big consolidation phase, i do

think there is a ton opportunity for startups. we have made a small acquisition that i will announce and we will make others. there certainly is a really high barrier for entry to serve the enterprise. still, there is so much open space for startups. ed: it is interesting that you used to c word, consolidation. i don't think others have gone so far as using the word consolidation. you said big tech was sucking the oxygen out of the room. it goes to the open source-closed debate. i assume you are on the open source side. weigh in. may: we are in the middle. our models are proprietary. a bunch of them are on hugging face. our latest models are closed source. by being in the middle what enterprises really need is the ability to audit and have the

transparency around trading data and all sorts of things related to the models. they don't really want the last mile cumbersome this -- cumbersomeness of running the models themselves is what we are finding. in sucking the air out of the room, the confusion around what vendors to turn to confusion art vendors to turn to and how to get great applications shipped, that is where i think there is still a lot of confusion. caroline: some clarity of where the underlying data is coming from and you are not having copyright issues. give us clarity. have you been approached to be bought? re: remaining independent? are you raising more money? may: there is a really long product journey for us to really realize our vision. i am excited about remaining

independent. it used to be one that i would say llm's are for the drudgery and the work you don't want to do. today the capabilities are as good as us. the future is work where you get to do the work you want to do and llm's do the rest. one person's drudgery is another person's passion. we are not seeing enterprises come up with it yet. we talked to hundreds of companies per week and that really feels missing right now, executives having a vision for what ai looks like inside the companies in a way that brings people along. there has been a lot to do bringing our vision into the world and helping companies achieve their. ed: may habib, great to catch up here at bloomberg tech. caroline: she flies every week from san francisco to london and back. ed: the world of aco and the world of ai -- the world of a

ceo over the world of ai. coming up, will talk to stephanie zhan. we will be right back. posts... in minutes! -how? -a.i. (impressed) ay i like it! who wants to come see the future?! get your business online in minutes with godaddy airo

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caroline: you are looking at a live shot of the principal room. coming up, coverage from the bloomberg technology event in san francisco. check out the qr code for all the details on who the big speakers are. this is bloomberg. ed: welcome back to this special edition of "bloomberg technology." we are in san francisco for the annual conference. here at the summit we have to talk about investing. the first checks into those new and early ai startups. we have a fantastic guest. stephanie zhan, partner at sequoia. you guys are so busy. you are writing lots of checks.

but the new companies being founded in ai are not the same as they were a year ago. certainly not 18 months or two years ago. give us a timeline of where we are now in this industry wave. stephanie: first of all thank you so much were happening -- so much for having me. we are in a really interesting time in ai today. seven years from the advent of the transformer. four years since the advent of the gpt comment. i think when he 24 will be a monumental year for ai -- i think 2024 will be a monumental year for ai. everything from video to ai agents to robotics. this will be the year we see a shift in the echo system -- a shift in the ecosystem to an ecosystem with many models. this is the year we start to see

ai commercialization at scale. at sequoia we have been really busy. we are highly selective about the companies we partner with. just here in just the first four months we have invested in 10 new ai companies. everything from new foundation models to new ai native applications. caroline: seven years ago since the transmission model. it was 20 years ago when sequoia wrote the first check to nvidia. now we think of still that company really owning the oxygen in the room. ed: they are writing checks of their own as a strategic investor. caroline: exactly to that point. how hesitate of is it to get those first checks in? is it the corporate who are wanting to write checks? stephanie: it is an incredible ecosystem with everyone pouring money into the ai ecosystem. it is very much reflect about the opportunity that we see in

ai, the large market opportunity that is to come. we are still in the very early innings. it is the classic saying of we overestimate in the short run but we really underestimate in the long run. nvidia has done a wonderful job of being such a critical hold in the ecosystem with hardware and driving compute but also now with so many software tools and the ecosystem they have built around them. we are just in the early innings and there is a lot more to come. caroline: we were just speaking with clem from hugging face. they highlight the fact that it is really expensive to do this. nvidia chips are a pretty penny. how are you seeing the companies able to sustain the investment they need to make? how do you make sure the checks are going in the right direction and not just going into the pool of training money? stephanie: i think the classic conventional wisdom is that incumbents with scale, data, capital and distribution have an

advantage and that is correct. it costs a lot to build these models because of ai talent. there are so many nimble ways for a startup to compete. the next leap is around high-quality data, specifically high-quality labels of data and targeted domain-specific data. second, it is really about what you do with the data. reinforcement learning with human feedback we really shine in this next era. it is an idea derived from reinforcement learning. that is what so -- what is so brilliant about chatgpt. you really differentiate not just on model performance which is where all the capital goes into but it is also around product distribution over the entire experience you offer to the end customer. ed: you used the word incumbent. we should talk about who those incumbents are. the point that was made was that

big tech, alphabet, microsoft, sucking the oxygen out of the room. from b talent perspective you have invested -- from a capital invest -- perspective -- stephanie: new starbucks have a shot. -- new start ups have a shot. gpt four, and gemini is the most popular models. we are starting to see new players come into play with models that are just as competitive in performance. i am really excited about the open-source model ecosystem enabling more new players to come into play. the new 8 billion grammar model is a longer trained small model

that will become a really powerful building block for new developers to build new applications on top of and to build new models around it. it will drastically reduce the cost of what it takes to build new experiences. ed: we are increasingly talking about meta-and its competence in billing large language models. you speak highly of them. where do you see them? i think zuckerberg said on the call last week we want to be the world's leading ai company. where are they in that journey? stephanie: i think they have an incredible advantage and not just because of the capital they are willing to pour into play but also because of the entire treasure trove data they hold. all of this proprietary content that they can really use to train their models. one of the things i am excited to see them enter the scene with this year is a new generative video foundation model similar

to what we saw with sora in openai. the most powerful thing they unlocked was the methodology from building largely with models and digital intelligence works. you take a diffusion transformer model and scale it with enough video data and meta has a wonderful advantage given the treasure trove of content they have. what they are doing with mama three is game changing -- lana three is game changing. it sells no startups lowering the startups lowering the cost for a thriving ecosystem with many winners. caroline: come back when you have more you can announced in that thriving ecosystem. a fantastic time. don't go anywhere. we have more conversations from people working within some of

the big companies leaning into ai. udit madan will be with us. he oversees one million individuals. this is bloomberg.

caroline: welcome back to the

special edition of "bloomberg technology." in the heart of san francisco, a big event upon our hands. every year bloomberg businessweek releases its list of tech wants to watch. a list of startups, big tech managers and key investors who are playing a big role in shaping tech's future. joining us is one of the ones to watch, udit madan, your first interview since taking on an enormous role of more than one million people that you manage. the focus of getting my package to me in the swiftest way that is cost-efficient. what does a day look like? udit: thank you for having me. it is a privilege to be here. my day starts early in the morning. it starts with thinking about the team.

we have 4000 different locations that we operate around the world. it is focused on how do we continue to innovate on behalf of customers and do it in a way that puts safety and people at the forefront. my day is really focused on innovation across four different spectrums. safety, the customer experience with delivery speeds, innovating especially with what is happening with technology. finding new ways to make things more efficient. ed: we are talking about everything from the fleet. there is a transition from sustainable energy in the fleet context. talking about robotics in the fulfillment centers and ai tracking the data. what is the biggest investment focus for you in technology rollout? udit: we have technology across all of our operations. two things i will talk about, we

have a lot of investments in automation and robotics going on especially with how things are quickly accelerating with ai. we have investments on novel foundation models. we can use the high-quality data that we have gathered to ship products. those will make robotics solutions more generalized and efficient. we have been working on a set of really inventive robotics solutions and we are finally reaching maturity and scale and starting to roll out this year. those are really exciting and will be transformative. caroline: you have to be inventive. you are supposed to focus on costs. i am sure innovation does longer-term strip out some of the costs. ultimately the sacrifice of labor. how do you talk to those people that you are focused on to make sure that they are not replaced? udit: the best thing i can talk about is our history. we have 150,000 robots over the

last decade across our operations while creating hundreds of thousands of jobs. not a lot of people know that we have created dozens of new jobs, skilled jobs, technical jobs. what we want in that process is one of the most important things that you can do as a company in this world of generative ai and robotics is to focus on employees. . we launched two programs. one is a 2025 upscaling pledge that trains people for this new workforce in the future. it is with everybody and it is focused on investing to train people. really. focusing on people alongside of the investments. ed: we have 30 seconds. what is your personal goal for the year? udit: for me there is more than one but i will try to answer quickly. the first fiscal safety -- the first is safety.

we are making remarkable progress in that area. the second is to continue to improve convenience for customers and delivery speeds is an area of focus. caroline: congratulations on being one of the ones to watch. phenomenal the amount of people that you manage at the young age that you are. udit madan, amazon president of worldwide operations. from wants to watch of individuals to every think you have to watch coming up, an amazing set of conversations. we will be speaking with a key chip leader. we will be speaking about the future of technology. ed: we will talk about brain implants and what the right method of putting an electrode of putting into one's brain is. caroline: i love that. a casual perspective. this is the question that having just spoken with the other renee of arm, where is the market share being taken from intel and

potentially nvidia? ed: thank you for joining us on the special edition of "bloomberg technology." we have a full day ahead. so many great guests. stay with us. thank you for tuning in. from san francisco and bloomberg tech 2024, this is bloomberg. when you own a small business every second counts. 120 seconds to add the finishing touches. 900 seconds to arrange the displays. if you're short on time for marketing constant contact's powerful tools can help. you can automate email and sms messages so customers get the right message at the right time. save time marketing with constant contact. because all it takes is 30 seconds to make someone's day. get started today at constantcontact.com. helping the small stand tall.

>> welcome to bloomberg markets. the latest u.s. jobless claims data adds to evidence the labor market is cooling, paving the way for the fed to possibly cut rates this year. the s&p 500 floating above 5200. just below the market right now. we are seeing highs on the day. 2/10 of 1% higher. you are not seeing the same love