>> welcome to bloomberg markets. equities are surging. the s&p 500, nasdaq and dowell touching record highs. the dow passing the historic $40,000 mark. the s&p firmly above 5300. a leg higher. 2/10 of 1% and the nasdaq 100 up three tenths of 1%. dow jones industrial average

above the 40 thousand dollar mark. 2/10 of 1% higher in volatility nice and low. down to a 12 handle on the vix. seeing individual movers drive indices higher. especially retailers after walmart reported strong earnings and reiterated its full year outlook. walmart is adding a record high and on-base -- and on pace for its record game. target, dollar tree, dollar general facing moves higher of almost 3% or more. looking at treasuries, the 10 year yield has been falling back to near its lowest level in month. even with a couple basis points higher today, you are seeing the 10 year back above 450. earlier this month back below for 4437 on the day. we are going to discuss this with loomis sayles vice president and portfolio manager andrea.

when you look at these rapid moves in the bond market, do you trust what you are seeing at the longer end of the curve? >> what we sell take place in april was more of a parallel shift across the curve. front end being driven by the repricing of pricing out some fed cuts in the back end being driven by the ever so concerning deficit spending. what we have seen take place since the inflation print is we have started to see some pole steepening taking place. that is more indicative of the environment we can expect to see into the second half of this year. sonali: what would throw the bond wally -- the bond rally off? do you worry too much money is piling in at this juncture? andrea: what concerns us is at the core of the consumer. consumer can throw a wrench in the equity rally. it can throw a wrench in the shape of the curve. it can throw a wrench in the

yield and carry trade we have seen playing out across global high yields markets. sonali: how much of a problem is the consumer. if you think about the data, retail earnings alone and there has been a lot of excitement around it. you look at walmart and you realize a lot of this is because people are trading down. should that be seen as a sign of weakness? andrea: it definitely has the early warning indicators. maybe a little bit of smoke to concern us around the consumer. taking a step back, we think about what drives consumer growth story. it is the top of the income distribution. it drives 40% of the growth. that consumer is healthy. they have healthy balance sheets. they are carrying slightly higher credit card balances than they were in the last few years, they can cover it where they are from a credit health standpoint. i don't think as a whole we

should be worried about the consumer headline figures are going to roll over sharply. we have to be concerned about the lower fica score borrowers. they are in a recessionary environment and they have been for over 18 months. sonali: when you have a lot of the spending power come in from the middle to upper end of the income distribution but the weakness starting to slow -- to show at the lower end, when does that start to become more of a problem? andrea: people will spend when they have income in their pocket and they will spend as long as they are not concerned about their job. as long as the higher income earners are not worried about their job in the next 12, 18 months, they will continue to spend. seeing the unemployment rate really stay relatively low to historical levels will be important for us as we head into the second half and the first half of next year. sonali: there are a lot of questions about what would turn a no landing or soft landing

into something harder. do you worry about the data that is upcoming and not what we have already seen in the past? andrea: i think we have been through a tremendous amount of turbulence in the market. we have gone from hard landing to soft landing to no landing to a growth resurgence. now we are leaning back toward a soft landing. the soft lending story is well supported by the data. inflation is moving back toward expectations. that is a positive story when you think about the growth outlook within the u.s. we are also seeing more green shoots coming out of global markets. you're seeing and proving soft data coming out of european markets. you have seen net positive stories coming out of china. the government stepping in and in further potential ways to support the property market. all of that is a tailwind for global growth. as we think about how investors

are likely to position to the second half of this year, you mentioned volatility is low. that is an environment ripe for earning carry and there are plenty of opportunities across global markets to earn high single kerry sonali: -- high single kerry. sonali: where are you putting the most money to work right now? andrea: we think global high-yield markets are really attractive specifically within emerging markets. you are seeing a lot of opportunities in the front tier space. the headlines have in nonstop. -- have been nonstop. this is an area of the market that is interesting. what is becoming more interesting at this moment as we have seen yields begin to fall and the pole steepening take place is the dollar rolling over. though google sovereign em story is coming -- the local sovereign em story is coming back into the

fold and it is an exciting area for investors to look at. we would balance that with front end investment grade corporate exposure because duration is looking interesting. i think it is fair to say given the data we have seen that investors can be comfortable saying near term 5% was likely to be the upside on the 10 year. sonali: that is loomis sayles vice president and co-portfolio manager andrea discenso. a little bit of weakness in the dollar but we have not seen it roll over yet. jamie dimon says he is more worried about inflation's than the markets appear to be. he sat down with francine lacqua at the companies global markets conference in paris. >> we have had good health for quite a while. they kind of predicted a soft landing and you see that in stock price which are kind of high, credit spreads which are kind of low and markets which are wide open.

it does not tell you what the future is going to be. i could point to a lot of times in history where that was true and the next year it was not true. i don't pay as much attention to monthly numbers as most people do. >> what do you think the future is for inflation? >> we have had big fiscal deficits. the underlying inflation may not go away the way people expect it to. i look at the future like a lot of things we look at, kind of inflationary. the green economy, the re-militarization of the world. the restructuring of trade, fiscal deficits. there are a lot of inflationary forces in front of us that may keep it higher than people expect so the surprise would be rates are higher, inflation is higher and maybe that will stall growth. geopolitics is a whole different issue. that can be determinative what our economy does next year. we are not going to know. >> does that mean you think it is 50-50 whether the fed cuts or hikes?

>> i don't pay that much attention to that. the fed will have to follow the data. i don't know what the data is going to say. they are doing the right thing to be patient right now. maybe they will not know for a couple months. >> but no big correction. if you don't pay that much attention, it means you're not worried. >> i'm worried. stocks are very high. chance of inflation staying high. i think -- my view is whatever the world is pricing for a soft landing, i think it is probably half that. the chance of something going wrong is higher than people think. >> in the u.s. or globally? >> i would say the u.s. but that could affect globally. >> what does that mean for markets? >> they would be down. reddit spreads could gap out. >> was the market not pricing that in? >> a lot of happy talk. >> what does the happy talk come from? >> low rates, central banks, reduced rates. geopolitical things disseminate,

don't cause problems. the future is not predictable like that. i am a steward of history appeared i have watched all the inflection points if you go back when my dad was a stock rocher. i go back to the booming markets of 72 and the collapse of 74. the healthy markets of 80 and the collapse of 82. the 87 market crash, the 1990 real estate crash almost all of them were not predicted the year before. i look at these factors that drive these things and i have always known -- as a company we prepare for all of this. >> what do you see as the main stress right now? if it is geopolitics, we talk about up to it is not priced in. is it distress? is it something going under you worry about or multiple factors coming in at the same time? >> geo factors could create the main stress we are worried about . i terms of oil and gas prices, trade alliances, but i think the surprise would be higher rates because inflation did not go

down to inflation has been stubborn. maybe it bounces up next year. inflation next year may be in the cards. that to me is the surprise. if you had higher rates and god for bid stagflation, you will see stress in real estate and leveraged companies and some private credit and things like that. sonali: that was jp morgan ceo jamie dimon speaking with our own francine lacqua. coming up next, we are going to speak to citigroup's harold butler to discuss his outlook for the banking sector especially when it comes to underrepresented communities. we'll talk about that in this higher interest rate of are meant. this is bloomberg. ♪ ♪♪ sandals jamaica sale is now on!

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sonali: this is bloomberg markets. we are looking at copper prices because they have been rising for months and we are seeing the spike that is rocking metals markets worldwide. we are going to discuss what is going on with bloomberg markets commodities strategist. what does it look like under the hood? >> it looks like it is cash. we have seen some significance -- like it is peakish. copper highs around five dollars and $.13 a pound. the lme traded copper has not. the cme traded copper is a little bit long. futures positions are in there. the thing that is unique about is it is the curve. the back ones have stayed behind. that is usually what happens when markets make peaks. i remember silver in 2011 when

it made a peak at 250 bucks. the question is duration. sonali: part of this issue we are seeing for traders is a massive short squeeze going on in the markets. talk about the markets structured dynamics we are seeing? >> in a short squeeze, you see open interest klein but on the cme traded contract, that has not declined. it has declined on the lme traded contract could if you look at managed net positions, these are the leveraged traders. they are the most long copper. about 30% of open interest in 30 years. the market has been very long. it -- what is happening now is some of the nuances as the trading between the front contracts and that contracts. when you get the front contract in copper, it got to about 6%, the back price. that is the most since 2008 which is a dicey number.

sonali: what about the leverage under the surface? you alluded to some of the levered contracts being the most hits a hell big is that exposure? >> -- how big is that exposure? >> the total net long from hedge funds was 30% of open interest should that is the highest in three or four years. right when copper was making its peak right before russia's invasion of ukraine and headed lower. the market is weighted very long and it is showing that lately putting the spike around five. around 490 at the moment. the risk is those positions might be sparked to liquidate. it needs a fundamental backing. that is the unique thing about it. positions are a bit long for a short squeeze. sonali: we thank you for keeping an eye on a complicated market. something that has a lot of

implications too many items around the world. bloomberg intelligence commodity strategist mcglone. or markets ahead. this is bloomberg. ♪

sonali: this is bloomberg markets. siemens s orders drop andaw revenue stagnate. >> there are a couple of elements which seems takes a little long to recover and let me go through them. number one is private consumption is not picking up. consumers are sitting on a record high savings level. the construction sector which was driving momentum is going down. this is by design. it was overheated. you have a lower direct investment going into china. companies are starting to increase their resilience in investing in other areas. this package altogether is somehow holding china back.

china is subsidizing placement of goods with energy efficient. it goes slowly. >> i may add another list of things that might be slowing china down which is we have the next couple of weeks that you you is going to give the outlook -- the eu is going to give its outlook for ev's. do think that will delay the chinese recovery? >> you have one point the x port -- the export is not all that strong. china is in export market and the tariffs don't help. tariffs are triggering counter tariffs which is not good. this increases the price for consumers which we don't believe

is a good idea. if the argument is about overcapacity in the automotive industry, they always have been overcapacity so what is the level? it does not impact too much. i did not expect the chinese market would be flooding the american market with ev's. same for europe. i do not believe this has huge impacts. the tariff and counter tariffs is not what we want to see in market which starts picking up in growth in china. >> i would like to get your perspective on the overcapacity because if you ask a lot of european countries and politicians who want to see a green transition, what you need is overcapacity in solar panels and these sorts of things. what do you make of this argument china is exporting this overcapacity to the world? >> the argument goes back --

they say there is over subsidizing of certain sectors which causes overcapacity's and offloading into the market. i don't believe it too much. take the solar industry. most of them are coming from china. it is a good idea if you want to drive the energy transition that you get cheap panels from china to drive the energy transition. we want to increase oil. i do believe this is an argument we will have to look a little deeper. we do not believe in increasing of tariffs. free trade is good with a low cost of goods which are driving our agenda and one of them is reducing carbon footprint. i hope this is not the start of a tariff race. >> i wanted to go from china to germany. do you feel sentiment is beginning to pick up in germany? dca recovery in the economy?

-- do you see a recovery in the economy? >> not yet. you saw the latest news on the gdp expectations. germany more on the lower end. your structural things we have to do. we have to work on our infrastructure investment. putting a break on our -- the government. >> do you think the debt break needs a reform? >> well, i do believe selectively it makes sense to do that. i am pro a tight hand on budgets. we should be tight on our money. there is a lot of inflow. we have under investment in infrastructure over so many years. underinvested distribution. to catch up and at the same time

put a brake on spendings is something that is contradictory. my point is we should have picked up the point in saying we have to invest over outdated infrastructure. this goes into schools, universities. the education system and the like. there might be a selective release would be a good idea. we need germinates to do some basic homework's -- when need germany to do some basic homework. we need an inflow of immigrants. this is the reason why we are voting for tolerance and respect of people. sonali: i want to give you a check on the markets because we are hitting history today. the dow jones breaking 4000 and another set of records being reached by major indices. the s&p 500 still up more than

1/10 of 1%. the nasdaq 100 up 2/10 of 1% and the philadelphia semiconductor index almost up a half of 1% to i want to show you where the market is broadening. you are seeing some love come back into the russell 1000 value index. this is an index that is up 8% on the year. not seeing the same gains you are seeing in the larger indices but you are seeing a dead back in valid -- a bid back in value. you can see the russell 1000 or 2000 growth index here. 5% higher on the year and a little bit lower on the day. a little more love in value today especially as you see the retailers and consumer stocks continue to hold on strong. i want to bring you the yield moves because we are seeing a selloff in the bond market. ever so slightly after a giant bid throughout the week.

what has led to is an inversion of the 210 curve still at 41 basis points. we will keep an eye on that. coming up, we have an interview with harold butler head of diverse financial institutions at citigroup. this is bloomberg. ♪ so, what are you thinking? i'm thinking... (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride? swim with elephants? wait, can we afford a safari? great question. like everything, it takes a little planning. or, put the money towards a down-payment... ...on a ranch ...in montana ...with horses let's take a look at those scenarios. j.p. morgan wealth management has advisors in chase branches and tools, like wealth plan to keep you on track. when you're planning for it all... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management.

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sonali: this is bloomberg markets. i'm joined by harold butler, head of citigroup's diverse financial institutions group which does work with minority owned banks, diverse broker-dealers and asset managers. you started this group at citigroup in the investment banking division three years ago. i'll big has it gotten since then? >> size wise we are still a nimble team but it began and it is important to note it began with us being intentional behind her commitments we made to

reduce the racial wealth gap in america. while it started with you may remember ppp and then it expanded to a host of things. when i think of size, i think about the fact that where we began was providing access to a window to sell -- for banks to sell debt. to now in the last 18 months having done $3 billion worth of revenue generating opportunities exposed to the banks and the brokered dealers and asset management we work with. sonali: a week ago you compiled several dozen people from across the country from different brokered dealers, asset managers but also members of the administration and your own executives. in push comes to shove, what has changed for these broker-dealers in this country? what still needs to change? >> it is a good question. for the most part when you talk about banks, there has been

tremendous progress. i like to think of it as we put some seeds in the ground and the administration, corporate's, certainly our efforts have done a good job of watering those seeds and they are starting to sprout. for the first time in four decades, these banks are very well-capitalized. the next step is helping them to put to use that capital many have gotten with government programs. you mentioned the administration , members of the administration came. the deputy secretary of treasury highlighted some of the work treasury is doing to help with this work. there has been a lot of change in the space. what is important is we continue to water this so it can foster in bloom. sonali: this is all happening in the middle of what has been a

lot of pressure on the regional banking industry. when you think about regional banks, it is a lot of committees across the country that need these banking services the most. what role have black owned banks done to step into that void in the past year? >> a tremendous role. if you think about it, any of the community-based minority banks are the community. they are the trusted folks. if it were not for some of these banks, many loans would not happen in some of these communities. i think on a previous occasion with you i mentioned in many ways those banks -- i think of those banks as being the heart of community and where the heart beats to various appendages like on our bodies, there goes investment and opportunity to grow within the humidity. they are terribly important which is why we do the work we do so we can uplift those committees through the banks.

sonali: what are the challenges? in this higher interest rate environment, we have seen the struggles that has placed whether it is higher deposit costs for the banks themselves or issues in the loan books. what are the challenges you are navigating among your clients? >> most of the challenges and i will speak specifically for the banks. broker-dealers is about access to more deals from issuers and having opportunities to do those deals and show their stuff in the market but for the banks themselves, they got a great deal of capital today. now it is about unlocking that liquidity and putting it to use. deposits were a big theme at the conference to talk about how do we attract more investment by way of patient deposits so that liquidity can be lent to make loans, affordable housing? affordable housing was a big pillar around how do we make more of an impact? a big focus of the treasury department to talk about how we

unlock value and create more affordable housing. i think you know citi is the largest affordable housing lender in the country. sonali: you mentioned broker-dealers and it is interesting because you are seeing the capital markets come back. at citigroup everyone in the banking industry is starting to feel the love once again. when you see a lot of these banks underwrite ipo's, you see women and minority owned broker-dealers increasingly show up on these s-1 filings. you see them on bond documents. what does the process look like? if you are citigroup, how do you encourage your clients to be doing that? >> this may sound simple but the reality is we need to be and we are intentional about these efforts. it is not rocket science. i think it is a matter of knowing and we do treat them as clients, knowing what the capabilities are and including

them. we do have to speak to issuers. we do have to help shine the light on their capabilities. we have to do better at being intentional. the whole market benefits when we do that. sonali: you mentioned affordable housing and i'm glad you did because a lot of people are complaining about this idea we are in different type of housing crisis today. what is the conversation look like for you inside of citigroup with these diverse financial institutions and you had mayors at this event as well. >> when we think about affordable housing for these banks, it is about helping us to reach the opportunities that will afford us the ability to support affordable housing transactions. we do a great deal of business in certain parts of the country. but we are not everywhere. for the banks, it is good for them because they know the communities and if we are able to help them with the tools and resources necessary to realize

those dreams of affordable housing, that is positive on the lending side. local minas abilities, government, the treasury secretary -- the treasury secretary has mentioned the focus and go deep on how to unlock value in that space. we go back to intentionality. it is about looking at what the heartbeat of the problem and putting resources to solve it. sonali: harold butler, head of citi's diversity and financial institutions group. coming up, walmart shows strength in consumer behavior. shares hitting an all-time high. details on the big retailer next. this is bloomberg. ♪

sonali: chubb shares are rising after berkshire hathaway unveiled a 6.7 billion dollars stake in the insurance company. the sec allowed berkshire to keep the investment confidential since last year. we are going to discuss with bloomberg intelligence analyst matthew palazzolo who knows the ins and ounce of the insurance world. this is not only a massive stake. you have written about it. it brings to the question whether there are more deals to be done at scale in the insurance industry. >> these are two titans of the industry. when i heard the news, my ears perked up. berkshire and buffett have been on this hunt for an elephant-sized acquisition. the market cap is about $100

billion. berkshire hathaway has hundred 88 billion dollars of cash. i don't think this combination may happen but it is possible. sonali: if it does not happen and you are chubb and you have a massive rival having that large of a stake in you, you worry? what is the motive? >> berkshire does not really go hostile. i don't think it is a problem. if you look at the business mixes of the companies, berkshire with geico's big and personal auto, chubb has a reinsurance business not as big as berkshire. they are complementary a little bit. it is surprising but if you take the insurance side away, it is a company berkshire and buffett would want to own. shelley: you brought up an interesting point about dachshund ali: you what up an interesting point about how succession could play out evan greenberg and spot chubb evan

himself has been quite a giant in the insurance industry. can evan be a singular leader at work sure? >> if that were to happen, evan is probably not going to work for someone else. in situation where this combination could occur, evan greenberg taking over i think could be one of the only things in the world he would be interested in combining with and other company that is bigger than berkshire. if you could run that whole empire. jean jane who is ahead of the operations at berkshire, he is 72 years old. his retirement did come up at the annual meeting should i'm not saying it is going to happen anytime soon. i think that might be the only condition under which evan greenberg would work for berkshire. sonali: he is a giant in the insurance industry. thank you, matthew palazzolo. covering berkshire hathaway and the insurance industry should notice time for stock of the

hour. walmart posting another quarter of strong sales growth as it attracts customers looking for essentials and discounts. retailer aspects adjusted earnings to come in at the high end for the full year. we will discuss with jennifer bartashus. one of the things that struck me in these results is the idea that they were promising but they also showed a trade down in customers. they almost went up the hill in customers and brought up more customers that would have otherwise been spending on larger tickets. what does that say about the walmart consumer base? >> what it says is the consumer base continues to expand and that is only good news for walmart. they have traditionally had strong appeal with lower income households. the fact they are pulling in higher income households who are spending more and have more flexibility to spend on higher-margin categories is a positive. the question is going to be whether they will continue to

hold onto the customers once some of those inflationary pressures that has everyone retreating into spending habits, was that subsides, can they hold onto those people? sonali: give the thing that struck me as the e-commerce. -- the other thing that struck me was the e-commerce. if you look at the way they are shipping things out in short-term increments, it is catching up with amazon. >> they had tremendous growth. much higher than consensus expected to i think this is a play out of the investments walmart has been making in their your commerce abilities the last several years. it is unlocking additional revenue and a margin mix for them because it unlocks opportunity for advertising. it unlocks opportunity for fulfillment services. things that are starting to generate momentum. there marketplace now has millions of items. they are slowly becoming more competitive. when them up against someone like

amazon. shelley: what is happening with walmart? is this part of a larger shift in strategy? >> woman has been shifting strategy for a while and they are evolving to become more than a simple retailer. i think that is a journey that is going to continue for some time. of the things they have become good at his trial and error. they went into healthcare services. they decided it was not going to be profitable. they have closed the clinics. they are things like fintech. these are other opportunities walmart is looking at that could help them expand their reach and build a large ecosystem of customers that come to them for a variety of different needs. sonali: that is bloomberg intelligence analyst jennifer bartashus covering walmart. closely watched results on wall street. coming up, we are going to talk about carlisle, the way they are

bullish on the future of asset backed finance. we are going to speak to the managing director and head of credit strategic solutions next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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sonali: it is time for the wall street bead. we are looking at asset-backed finance and why it is such a hot topic on the world of credit. you are joined by the credit strategic solutions head at carlisle where we know has a fast-growing credit business. user to this business three years ago. it is a $7 billion business. how fast is a growing now? >> we are seeing tremendous growth in the business and that is being driven by the market opportunity. we are seeing a confluence of factors pushing a lot of this

high quality lending off of deposit and taxpayer backed bank balance sheets and into the private markets. additionally: is a love this opportunity -- and ali: is all of this opportunity driven by the banks? >> i think it is both. you're seeing banks and not only banks but specialty finance companies that originate loans and selling them to community and regional banks. you are seeing the bid for the loans. your seen private market firms players like us who will step into the financing need. something in the order of $40 trillion of financing. at the same time, investors of ours are looking to diversify their private credit exposure. get exposure to outside of the private equity ecosystem should sonali: today is a good example of what you are talking about because you at carlisle agreed to by a 450 million dollar portfolio from sun gauge

financial. tell us about that deal and what it says about where this market is going. >> that is emblematic of what we are seeing more broadly. sun gauge is an example of a firm that originated a very high quality solar loan product. originally they were selling to a bank. the bank decided it would it -- decided it did not want to buy anymore loans. sun gauge was looking for a partner to continue buying the loans they are going to continue to originate. that is one example of many of the transactions were reported with specialty financial companies like sun gauge looking for funding partners as their existing partners step away. sonali: when you think asset-backed come on the face of it it feels safer. it feels you are backed by a hard asset. you are seeing a lot of firms like yours look to the asset-backed world and do things against assets but are not so tangible. how safe is the asset? >> when we think about risk, it

is about upfront underwriting, focusing on high quality collateral with predictable consistent recurring cash flow and partnering with the right groups. we are big on partnering. it is about partnering with banks, special d finance companies to deliver the solution and to keep the liquidity going on in the market. when you have those three things and we think at carlisle given our broad platform we have the ability to underwriting this platform that is the risk management you need to avoid losses traditionally: where are you staying away from -- to avoid losses. sonali: where are you staying away from? >> we have a thesis that lending to the homeowner is an attractive area to that is why residential solar loans or home-improvement loans or mortgages and second lien organ just because that consumer has done well in this inflationary environment. the biggest of -- biggest component of inflation is the cost of where you live.

they have not seen the cost of their housing go up but they have seen their wages go up. we think that demographic will be more recession resistant. sonali: other places you would not touch? if you're a homeowner, you have a hard asset. what other types of consumer products? you are seeing some places look at things like credit cards to get more excited about entering this market. >> for us, it is about do we have a data edge or information edge about the pool that we can underwrite and if we do, we could have the -- we can price that risk and underwrite that risk. that is where focus is. given our broad platform, where do we have some information advantage so we can underwrite that pool? where do we -- where we avoid is where we don't have the edge. then we are no good as any other buyer. sonali: it is funny because we have this conversation all the time with you guys and your peers about is asset-backed

finance a portion of the product -- private credit market or is it something separate? >> we think it is the new wave of private credit. it is about illiquid nontradable directly originated privately structured investments. if you look at what asset finance is it it each of these criteria but it does not fit the rubric of what private credit has been defined as historically which is lending to sponsored backed companies. this is the new wave of private credit. this is the expanded definition of private credit because it meets those criteria. sonali:? what is the opportunity you talk about one area that you are excited about. the homeowner. what other areas can be of interest to you? >> another area we are focused on is see pace lending. this is lending against commercial assets, allow them to finance energy a provement -- energy improvement. we are focused on the energy transition should we think it is

another type of lending or that lending is where the most senior piece of capital and the real estate capital structures is a safe and attractive asset. you are backed by the hard asset. sonali: and staying senior. what about the investor themselves? you were talking about more investors driving the push into this world. what kinds of investors are these suited for? >> absolutely absurd starkly a lot of talk -- absolutely. a lot of talk has been about how insurance companies have been the drivers of this opportunity. there are many insurance companies investing in the space. we are seeing is interest growing beyond that from pension plans from sovereign wealth funds and other institutional investors. there are two drivers of that should in the higher for longer rate environment, investors are realizing in the investment-grade portions of the asset-backed finance structures, they can earn attractive nominal returns.

on lower parts of the capital structure, that is where there is attractive returns relative to other forms of private credit. that is where we are seeing demand expand from what was talked about as mostly insurance asset class to expanding to other types of investors. sonali: all a hunt for global yield. growing there asset-backed finance business. before we let you go, let's take a check on the markets because we have hit some fresh records. have been wavering around the 40,000 level on the dow jones industrial average with the s&p 500 still flying above the 5300 level up about 2/10 of 1%. the nasdaq 100 sustaining gains about a quarter of 1% higher. yields below 480. seeing a couple basis points move higher and the 10 year below 440 down for 37 on the day. that does it for bloomberg

markets. . stick with us for balance of power and stick with us through the close. of the day of exuberance through these markets. that does it for bloomberg markets today. this is lumber. -- this is bloomberg. ♪

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>> from the world of politics to the world of business, this is balance of power.