alix: we are 30 minutes into the u.s. trading day on this wednesday, may 22. here are the top stories we're following. moment of truth, all eyes on nvidia earnings after the bell today. investors eager to hear about the state of a.i. spending. the bar, of course, very high with nvidia shares up 93% year to date. reinsurance so hot right now. he joins me in an exclusive interview to discuss the firm's recent reinsurance deals and the firm's expansion in asia with the region's profit contribution expected to climb to 50% by 2027. and aim ares aiming for $750 billion. the c.e.o. joins for an

exclusive conversation about the growth of private credit, and how a.i. could change the industry. katie: welcome to "bloomberg markets." look at the board hinted me. another quiet day, but it is green at least for right now. look at the s&p 500, currently unchanged. a little bit better if you take a look at big tech, with the nasdaq 100 higher by about .2%. and then you take a look at the philadelphia semiconductor index, currently higher by about 1%, but everything could change this afternoon with, of course, nvidia due to report earnings and really feels like, of course, the whole market is resting on the chipmakers' shoulders. before we get there, let's get to some breaking news in the last couple of minutes. that is anglo american agreeing to enter talks with its larger

rival, b.h.p., after it rejected its third proposal worth $49 billion. this, of course, opens the door to what could be the biggest mining deal in over a decade. will kennedy is bloomberg's senior executive editor for energy and commodities, is here with the latest. so the door is open to talks, but is there a chance here that we could see b.h.p. walk away? >> i think there's every chance. b.h.p. says this is the final offer, although there is probably some wiggle room if there is an agreed deal. but for now they say this is the best and final offer. interestingly, anglo has removed the language in their latest statement saying the offer undervalues the company, which suggests the valuations may be coming close together. but it says it still rejects this complicated structure b.h.p. has proposed on merging to south african units before the merger can go ahead. that seems to be where the

sticking point is at this stage. katie: we'll, of course, see if that really was their final offer. but let's get to the heart of the matter here, will. is this really just all about copper? >> that's the strategy here for b.h.p., the reason they're pursuing while they made three different offers to buy this company is because it sees copper as the opportunity for growth. it wants to rebalance its portfolio away from its reliance to copper, which people think is the metal for the energy transition and that demand is going to outstretch supply in the coming years, and by buying anglo american, which has a very strong position in the andes, in chili, and combining it with the existing copper business, they would control 10% of the market. katie: who knew the mining industry could be so interesting. our thanks to bloomberg's will kennedy. let's turn to the broader

markets now, because joining us now, we have david miller, catalyst capital co-founder, c.i.o., and senior portfolio manager, sitting to my left. great to see you in person. let's talk about where we are right now. we are at the s&p 500. we're at all-time highs. we have the likes of nvidia reporting after the bell today. it feels like the last few quarters this thing has emerged where it's all about nvidia. this is the most consequence convince shall thing that could ever happen. should we calm down a little bit? >> i mean, part of the question is what are we really expecting from nvidia? people are looking to about 559 a share. if you look at the past you are the with aers, they've all been beats. the average beat is about 13%. it seems like the street is sandbagging things a bit, and more likely than not the whisper numbers are higher than that. option markets are pricing in like an 8% likely move. so, you know, it's momentous, but does it drive everything? no, clearly the a.i. revolution

and that huge buildup in the arms race foray is ace late. katie: good point. to your point on the options market, great coverage on the terminal right now that the options market in terms of what it's been pricing in for post earnings move, specifically for nvidia, hasn't been too correct over the last few quarters. when you look out and look at the broader market, we're really at the tail end of earnings season, we have some big names left, but now we're sitting just on the cusp pretty much all there at all-time highs. what's next? you think about the fed and how we entered the year with six cuts priced in, now we're down to two, and it seems like the market says that actually doesn't matter. what are you anything the interaction between the micro and macro? >> when you look at the macro, the most important driving factor over the long term is u.s. government deficits. and they're currently running about a trillion and a half.

it doesn't seem to matter too much which party wines. those are likely to persist. that creates a crowding effect. it's hard to see how we could get meaningfully lower interest rates as long as unemployment data is pretty low, the c.p.i. prints are fairly high, and the government keeps borrowing at this pace. so i think more likely than not we're going to see higher for longer. katie: higher for long other interest rates. that leads me to an question i've been wondering about. tiply we talk about stocks, but i want to talk about the yield curve, the two-10 spread. it seems like the steepenner was one of the big trades coming into maybe last year, and then again into this year. it's gone nowhere. we're hovering around negative 40 basis points for several months now, really since the end of september or so. is the steepenner dead? >> i don't think it's dead. i don't think it will be very interesting. it's kind of interesting concept that you can actually short bonds and get paid to be short

bonds when you have an inverted yield curve. but, you know, unless the federal government policy changes, when you go into some a territory mode, i don't see how we're going to get out of that inverted yield curve any time in the really near future unless, of course, the economy starts to change more materially and c.p.i. starts to decay. katie: you think about the front end, but the front end, which is so sensitive to federal reserve policy, have we seen the pricing in of those rate cuts already happen? i'm just wondering when we think about what could make the steepenner more interesting, it doesn't feel like it's going to come from the front end. >> it doesn't seem like it's going to come from the front end. but yes, i think things are somewhat priced in, and maybe the market doesn't think we're going to get cuts. it might be more of the driving issue. katie: let's bring it back to the equity market. we talked about a little fit, what it would mean for the bond market. but for the equity market, how

does that inform picking and choosing stocks? i mean, how do you overlay that into a company's actual fundamentals? >> sure, when you think about inflation and how it impacts the company, there are some companies where inflation is amazing, and there's other companies where inflation is a big negative. that's where we have much more of a stock market right now, because companies that have exceptionally high march indians, that have tail wind in their business, that have other positions, companies like visa, master card, google, microsoft, in those cases, inflation is great. i mean, it's not great when you look at the factor for the higher interest rate component, but for the underlying businesses, it's very good, because they can pass through those inflationary costs and then some. and then you have the companies with very high input costs, like airlines, where they have to deal with both higher commodity costs and higher staffing costs, huge negative for firms that are in that more type of perfect competitive mode.

katie: is that really the framework you're using to look at the stock market? is it still about inflation being one of the dominant things that you're looking at? >> sure, when i'm looking at the stock market, inflation is very important. but you really have two different stock markets, the way i look at it. i think peter had a great quote about monopolies. those businesses that actually drive the earnings of the s&p 500, and the total returns of the s&p 500, it's a very small percentage of companies that do that. and it's the companies that not just win, but win the whole thing that make those huge impacts. so companies like google, like nvidia, like microsoft, like visa, like mastercard that gain global dominance with massive margins, and those are the companies that make things work. so i'm trying to focus on who are those winners. katie: when you think about that, i hear what you're saying. those are the dominant monopolies if, to call them that. but then you think about the bear case, and it would be

valuation. someone would say, yeah, they're also really expensive. i mean, how do you square that circle? >> well, i guess the way you square it, you say, ok, what are they actually worth 10 years from now? if you think about it, a company like visa or mastercard, i don't see the bear case. you have to have deflation in order for the revenue to not grow significantly. that revenue, assuming it increases, has to flow down significantly to the bottom line, so i think when you look at it, if a company actually is a real monopoly with massive march engines, that company is worth orders of magnitude morn a company that really has to go head to head with their competitors, where their products are basically the same as what everybody else is doing and can be easily replaced. katie: it's a fair point, too. if we are entering into a period of deflation, then we have much bigger problems on our hands. david, great to see you. appreciate your time today. that is david miller of catalyst capital. let's zoom in and look at what's moving underneath the markets

right now. we are going to do that with bloomberg's bailey. we have to talk about nvidia. >> we have to, as you and david mentioned. markets pricing in an 8% move. you made the point those options have not been right over the last few quarters, but nonetheless it should be plenty of fireworks after the bell today, all eyes on whether or not they can continue to grow their activity and data centers and continue to see the massive, massive numbers we've been seeing over the last year and a half. when you look at the performance for the s&p 500, nvidia accounting for about a quarter of its year to date gains, so all eyes on the stock. that's up, what, 78% the last i checked year to date, maybe 92, something like that, i don't have a terminal in front of me. >> let me tell you what it is, because last i checked it was 93%. the point remains, it's autopsy lot. tell me about target. right now it's down a lot. >> target down on the worst day since late 2022. underwhelming results, underwhelming comp sales, falling for the fourth

consecutive quarter. analysts really saying when you look at the results, not really much of a reason to step in and want to buy the stock. that's why it's under pressure today. sharp move lower. this is a company, centered on the consumer sentiment, consumers' ability to spend. they did say on the earnings call that consumers are tapering some of their spending on goods and instead paying up for services. and that's actually impacting their bottom line. one thing to keep in mind, they did announce thousands of items will see price cuts throughout the summer. so falling in the footsteps of mcdonald's with the $5 value meal, continuing to try to keep consumers back to their stores, but it is an interesting thing to keep an eye on, just given target has been one of those bellwethers in terms of how the u.s. consumer is faring. katie: they're boosting incentives. stock down by the most since november 2022. bring it home, because it's also an ugly story for her lululemon.

>> when you look at the year to date performance, it's ugly, continuing to see a shift down to the right, which you obviously don't want, one of the worst days in 2024. this coming after the chief product officer departed. the company did say that the receive product officer was leaving the company without being replaced. raymond james saying that adds to the wall of worry for the company. this is lululemon, dealing with heightened competition, dealing with some of the valuation concerns. similar to target. consumers kind of pulling back some of the spending on what i would call slightly overpriced leggings. i do buy them for my fiancée, but nonetheless, it does seem like there are a number of clouds, and again, as raymond james put it, a wall of worries and a number of concerns for investors and sell-side analysts. that's why you're seeing a continued lag this year and really adding the losses here in to 24. katie: they have a men's section. >> i know, but i'm cheap. by to target and buy things for $4.99. i don't really spend $60, though

i have heard they're very comfortable. katie: they are very comfort, speaking from my husband's experience. but anyway, let's end is here. coming up, roy gori joins to us talk about what's next for the insurance giant. this is bloomberg. thi- [female narrator] around ♪ the world,

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you know what's brilliant? boring. think about it. boring is the unsung catalyst for bold. what straps bold to a rocket and hurtles it into space? boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank. for nearly 160 years, pnc bank has been brilliantly boring so you can be happily fulfilled... which is pretty un-boring if you think about it. katie: one stock we are watching is the canadian insurance giant, manulife financial. the stock is off to a hot start this year. it's outpacing the s&p by a wide margin. here now to talk about the landscape for the insurance market, i'm pleased to say, we have roy gori, manulife president and c.e.o. joining us for an exclusive conversation.

i'm looking through the notes, and you have been calling this a transformation, 2023, a transformational year. your stock is at the highest level since about 2008. is it still a transformation? >> it is still a transformation. it's great to be here with you, katie. for our company, we've been on a journey since 2017. we said we wanted to be the most digital company in our industry. but at the same time, we knew we had to derisk our business and improve our returns. over the last six years, we've increased our return from about 11% to 16%. we've divested a lot of low o.r.i. businesses and digitized our franchise. we're really pleased with the progress that we've made. 2023 was what they knew for us. double digit growth in our sales metrics, and we delivered positive net flows. q-1 was a nice momentum follow-on from 2023, but you're

right. you know, i think organizations like ours don't ever stop transforming. i think as i look to the decade ahead, there's still a lot of opportunity for us, and we need to continue to look for ways to advance our agenda and deliver great value for not just customers, but also shareholders. katie: let's get into some of that, particularly reinsurance, you've done several deals over the past couple of months, but just to set the scene, the way i think about reinsurance is basically insurance for insurance companies. is that a fair description? >> i think that's right. insurance companies will reduce their risk by either reinsuring them or divesting blocks. a big party for us over the last six years has been reinsurance or divestitures. we freed up $11 billion worth of capital, which has been a key part of how we improved our return on equity and reduced our risk profile. we work with partners that take the business off our books or who reinsure the business and basically take on the risk associate with it. katie: you've been active when

it comes to long-term care. it looks like you reduced your exposure through reinsurance to 111% from -- from 111% to 24%, which is also the year you took over as c.e.o. do you think there's more deals there? are you going to pursue more long-term care reinsurance deals to further get the business? >> yes is the short answer. in 2023, we did a milestone long-term care deal. there weren't many deals done before our transaction, and it was the largest ever in history. so it was an important signal to the market that long-term care is transactable. it sent a really positive message to the market. as a result of that, there are now many more interested parties who are coming to talk to us about other parts of our long-term care portfolio they may want to acquire or take on from us.

we think it was a good first step. we traded at an attractive price, but we think there's further opportunity. katie: you're not just soliciting, so to speak. >> yeah, so there are people or companies that are interested in talking to us about our long-term care portfolio, and we're certainlien gaming in conversations with them. -- certainly engaging in conversations with them. katie: do you have a specific target in mind? >> it was more problematic parts. significantly reduced. and as you rightly point out, they represented about 24% of our earnings in 2017, and now down to approximately 11%. we think as we naturally grow our business, that percentage will continue to decrease. but if we can transact, that will be a quicker way for to us get down to certainly less than 10%. katie: that's the state of reinsurance and long-term care. let's also talk about asia. i think a lot of the street was

pleasantly surprised by the growth in asia. bloomberg intelligence actually expects that the region's profit contribution could be 50% by 2027. how do you expand distribution in asia? what does that look like? >> we're really proud. it's one of the things that really differentiates us from our peers. we've got such a strong presence in asia that complements our north america cames, both in canada and in the u.s. and again, having a diversified business across the geographies is a significant advantage, certainly in an environment where we're seeing g.d.p. growth in north america slow a little bit and asia to continue to grow. we were the sixth largest pan asian player many years ago, and now we're a top three player, and you need to be a top three player to grow and to have credibility in that part of the world. now, we've been in asia for more than 125 years. so we've got a strong brand and presence there. we got a strong distribution capability with about 100,000

agents, but also 10 bank insurance partners that we work with to sell our insurance products. so for us distribution is really key presence and a brand also matters, but we're very optimistic about the business in asia. katie: this was a new word for me as i was preparing for this interview. i do want to talk about wealth and asset management, an area of focus for you. i know you recently closed a deal to acquire c.q.s. when you think about growing that side of the business, are you trying to do that through more acquisitions or through organic growth? >> that's a great question. wealth and as met management business have been a really big priority and focus for us. again, we're quite unique in that we're geographically diverse, but we're also business diverse in that we're not just the retail shop. we have an institutional capability, but we also have a retirement capability. and with a world where the

population is constantly aging and there is a huge retirement gap, that really positions us really very well to capture business growth and momentum. so for us, growth will happen organically, because we're in parts of the world where our products are in huge demand in need, but there's also an opportunity to put our capital to work. we're very well capitalized. so the investing in businesses like c.q.s., that add to our capabilities, is another way that we're going to grow beyond the organic opportunity we've got. katie: it seems leak you certainly have money to spend, but roy, unfortunately we have to leave it there. hope to see you again soon. our thanks to roy gori of manulife. still ahead, we'll look at the companies making the most social buzz today in our social climbers segment up next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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katie: time for social climbers, a look at the stocks making waves on social media this morning. first up, buzz feed making a big social buzz after news that former u.s. presidential candidate is taking a stake in the struggling online media company. ramaswamy ended his candidacy in january, threw his support behind donald trump. and this purchase makes him the fourth largest shareholder in buzzfeed. finally we have venus williams, this is a barbie girl, literally. the tennis superstab has been transformed into a barbie, along with eight other female athletes as part of a no new project that aims toen courage girls to stay in sports. the one-of-a-kind role model dolls are in the spotlight ahead of the paris olympics that kicks off this summer. of course, you can follow all the latest company buzz on tren go. coming up, aiming to surpass

$700 billion of assets within the next four years. we speak to the ares c.e.o. next. this is bloomberg. ♪ do you want to close out? should i? normally i'd hold. but... taking the gains is smart here, right? feel more confident with stock ratings from j.p. morgan analysts in the chase app. when you've got a decision to make... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management.

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katie: areas unveiling a number of targets. it will boost asset under management to $750 billion by 2028. it said we expect to grow faster than the projected industry average over the next five years. i'm pleased to say we are joined by the areas ceo and sonali basik. >> a big driver and obviously a big chart of what -- part of what we do.

when we gave our prior guidance we said we would grow 20%. we grew 35. private credit was a big part of that but we've diversify to other big growth areas like real assets, private equity, a secondary's insurance. it's a combination of all above. sonali: how do you think about the private credit market writ large? billions of dollars in the equity industry. a lot of investors are looking around asking where is the risk. >> everyone defines private credit differently so when we talk about private credit today people are talking about corporate direct lending in the u.s. which is a great market. it's a market we've led for many years. and it's a market that is still undercapitalized. we can come back to that may be but when i think about private credit we are talking about all self originated private credit, rated, non-rated and in corporate real estate

infrastructure asset backed opportunistic so these are huge addressable markets. each of which is growing at a very high rate for structural reasons so we are not really experiencing the market as crowded and when you look at the performance of the underlying portfolios we are not seeing risk emerging in those corners. katie: with the growth of private credit, and all the new entrants, what does deployment look like when it comes to the opportunities there to throw money at? mike: if you look at fund raising the private credit market over the last five years the top 25 managers at the top of the list grew the fund to 56% market share in capital raised. 60% of the dollars are going to a small handful of people. five years prior it was roughly half that. these markets are growing but they are also consolidating so well you see a proliferation of

funds, the way that capital is getting raised to deploy still sits with a small handful of people so if you look at our deployment we put out about $40 billion a year in our private credit franchise and that's been consistent for the last three or four years regardless of the rate environment and the competitive environment. katie: -- sonali: a lot of investors have a lot of ai on their minds with nvidia after the bell. yesterday you did say the buzz word. how is ai going to drive the future of private credit. mike: it is still early. we have known each other a long time and whenever something is transformational as ai comes out we want to make sure we first understand the opportunity and understand the risk. and then deploy in a measured way but we can't ignore it. my view is for private markets investors the biggest opportunity in ai will be twofold.

supporting the digital infrastructure necessary and needed to see that explosion happened and that's every thing from data centers, renewable power grid transmission, so that is one big theme that the market is undercapitalized and we are leaning in there. how do we use ai to improve the efficiency and the returns in our own company and in our investment portfolio. we made a small acquisition of a team of technologists, we have put them into our corporate strategy group and we are deploying them into our portfolio to look for opportunities for efficiency we are deploying them into our middle and back office to try and drive margin expansion and we will set them free on our portfolio companies and data to try and create some underwriting age. that's good to be the long term. katie: if you look to this long-term pusher making here

adding assets under management, then where do you look to deploy your own capital. not the funds but investing in the business is at the marginal higher or the technology expertise here. >> we have been very vocal that i think the strategy to win long term in private markets is origination and investment acumen. we will be able to use technology to support good investment decision-making. any margin enhancement we can generate through technology we will put back into the investment engine because when you're in these large addressable markets. ultimately we win by finding investment opportunities that others cannot and at the end of the day technology can do that -- cannot do that alone. my own thing about ai is it is a supplementation of our human capital. it's not a replacement. katie: how are you thinking about your human capital when

you think of some of your goals for example do you plan to hire more people to help achieve that. sonali: and how many? mike: i would say yes, plenty and then iphones could be bringing off the hook. clearly if you look at our headcount we have 3000 employees today in 40 offices and 20 countries. they are all growing because our differentiator is our ability to be in these local markets developing relationships with companies and assets so, by definition we have to grow our headcount in order to support the target. and i thing we will be doing that all over the globe. sonali: some areas -- katie: you guys have made an early splash is sports. there's a lot of news around the market around the nfl looking to be open to private equity ownership. is that even attractive to someone like you?

mike: it's a huge addressable market. we formally entered the business about four years ago in the middle of covid. identifying that that would be a catalyst for what we thought would be transformational change. when i reflect back on our 30 years of private credit it's always about innovating where there was some form of rigidity in the way things got financed and if you look at sports globally they have typically been financed with bank capital and high net worth investors. and nothing in between. what we've learned over 30 years is the markets will evolve to value innovation in capital structures and i think that's what's happening in sports. the nfl being one example of many as these leads are -- people see values grow they are bringing institutional capital into an unlocked value in the capital structure, support growth, bring management expertise to the table to help

drive continued revenue so i think we are just getting started and this is something that did not exist so you mention the nfl. pick your number, one week -- one legal loan you create $100 billion equity so i think we are just beginning to see the evolution of this -- but it will open up a whole new environment -- market investment opportunity. >> it's a big growth driver for you. how do you keep the momentum going and continue to expand in that business? >> there is can it be like all things in our business now it's consolidating and the consolidation is accelerating. in wealth you win with people. you need teams around the globe. you need the sales and servicing of the wealth investor. you need a platform to support it, you need product and track record. you need relationships with the

distribution partners and it's a huge investment. you 120 five people with six products that are pushing product into the wealth channel. we said yesterday we expect our 25 billion to go to 100 billion. we expected to go to 175. and our products that will go from six to likely 10. so again you have to make investments in each of these areas. people, product, platform. >> 2028 you set these goals for print what's the biggest opportunity. mike: we have to keep doing what we are doing. the transaction market is moving up. fundraising machine has been working for us as you've seen in our fundraising numbers in what we by all accounts here is a difficult fundraising market. i think every year is about execution and the way we get to our five-year goals is keep doing what we are doing and that's what we are focused on. katie: really appreciate your

time today. that is mike. let's get a check on these markets now about an hour into the u.s. trading day. we will do that with bloomberg's abigail doolittle. abigail: stocks are simply treading water. the s&p 500 up ever so slightly. we have not seen a move greater than one quarter of 1% to the upside or downside sleepy a stretch in more than five years for the s&p 500 and of course it has everything to do with nvidia. investors waiting to see what numbers they will put up and will the guide be a blowout on the year if we look at the s&p 500 we are going to see nice numbers higher up about 12%. take a look at nvidia. year-to-date we are not even halfway through up 91% after the stock gained last year. valuation is not outrageous we are at about 29 point five times forward earnings.

that's of the lower end of their range. some of the valuation records, it's good to come down to whether or not they can continue to guide higher on the ai potential. let's look at the stocks relative to the s&p 500. that peak to the left is in the tech bubble. this is the philadelphia semiconductor index relative to the s&p 500 back in march the stocks put in an all-time high but more recently we have not seen that so you have the broader indexes putting the all-time high shift back. not sure how that divergence will play out but you can see the resistance is pretty strong and it has a lot to do with how nvidia plays out in terms of the earnings after the bell and let's look at why it matters so much for the s&p 500 this year as we just saw the s&p 500 up more than 11% on the year. and then we are looking at the other big tech names. alphabet, microsoft, amazon and

meta rounding it out. katie: a lot to look forward to after the bell. are things to abigail doolittle. nobel prize-winning economist paul krugman weighs in on how markets will react to the race for the white house. this is bloomberg. ♪

abigail: you are looking at a live shot of the principal room. the salesforce ai ceo joins bloomberg tv at 11:00 a.m. new york time. this is bloomberg. >> it's time for our wall street week conversation. we are looking at the impact of a trump or biden presidency on the u.s. economy. david westin spoke with paul krugman about the economic choices that voters should consider before heading to the

polls. >> it doesn't look as if it's made a whole lot of difference who's in the white house but if there's a trump two then there's a lot of reasons to believe it could be very different. this is -- what's amazing if you go back and look at trump's first time of the white house was how little he did when all was said and done. basically he got a moderate sized tax cut through. , there wasn't a lot else that went on. that was largely because there were institutional restraints. they couldn't get stuff through congress. they couldn't tell the federal reserve what to do. that could be very different right now. and if you take serious what the -- what trump -- former trump aides are saying, with -- it would be very drastic.

biden if he can do it would do more in some further tax increases, some industrial policy but probably not enough to make a huge difference to the macroeconomic numbers. trump, we know one of his former aide's has been talking a lot about rounding up millions of immigrants, supposedly undocumented though wouldn't be surprised if a lot of legal immigrants got caught up in that as well. huge economic impacts. huge disruptions to the labor force. peter navarro, who's being interviewed from jail has said the jay powell would be fired within 100 days and we will basically have the politicization of monetary policy and there's a lot of reasons to think a trump second term might see him become one of

those autocrats who demands that you run the printing presses for his political gain, it is -- it's a huge uncertainty with what ended up being fairly conventional economic policy and the federal reserve keeping a lid on things. could be very in for a very rude shock. >> picking up on your comment on monetary policy, we had ken on and he said the markets would not let president trump do that and they would react strong the treasury markets and he would not have that option. is that plausible? >> the markets would certainly react. we would probably see acceleration of inflation and the plunge in the dollar. how does he respond to that.

if you look at much smaller countries with -- that are much more exposed to market pressure like turkey, authoritarian leaders have a habit of stitt -- saying the markets are wrong and i will order them to stop. you might be surprised at how much at least in the sense of capital controls and of the that might happen. trump says to the fed i want a blooming economy, i want you to roll the printing presses and the markets respond by driving the dollar down and inflation up, he might then say i'm to put on rules that stop that from happening rather than changing the policy. we have had since the immediate aftermath of world war ii we will one absent price controls in america and it was richard

nixon, not some progressive democrat who did it. i think i understand his point, he thinks the bond vigilantes would discipline trump, but i don't think that is a safe bet. >> what about the prospect of inflation. tariffs tend to be inflationary rather than disinflationary. both president biden and former president trump seem to like tariffs pretty well. >> there is a big difference. biden has not rolled back most of the trump tariffs which is politics. there doesn't want to be accused of being soft on china. but if you look at the new proposals although they are both proposing tariffs, they are very different in the details and in the purpose. >> that of course was nobel

prize-winning economist paul krugman and david westin who joins me now. it was a good reminder that a second term donald trump could have much different economic policies than first term donald trump. david: there are a lot of reports coming out although we haven't heard from donald trump himself on what he's planning on doing. you can probably tell dr. krugman has a point of view on what might be better for the economy. one of the things he tends to leave out. what about the regulation. a lot of those who support becoming president trump again we had the regulation will be a lot more economic growth. katie: it's interesting when you think about the fed for example. beyond just what the actual president may enact there's been a lot of reports of what donald trump would mean for the fed and the choices he might make there. >> 1 wall st journal report came

out and it did not come directly from former president trump if anything it just himself so it's hard to know was that just people making it up and trying to influence donald trump or whether it was a trial balloon. there are some legal constraints as well. there is a law that governs the fed and it does not give the president power to dismiss the chair other than for cause. if we look back to the first trump administration as much as you want to do some things there were other institutions that constrain him in various ways. >> those laws might come into play here if we did see something. to your point we haven't heard directly from trump's camp. let's talk about the markets a little bit. because again we know it or biden presidency looks like. we know what trump first term looks like. how might the markets react? >> the markets really fell at the beginning and then they came right back.

overall they had a pretty good performance so the markets at first thought it would be a disaster. i think one of the questions we did talk to paul about was what about interest rates. longer-term higher interest rates given the spending needs to be done and he basically said is fanatically confused about interest rates. that will really constrain whoever is president depending on dealing with higher interest rates. >> i saw that in a few different headlines coming out of that conversation. who else do we have coming up? >> henry mcveigh at kkr does these trips around the world. an extensive report on the chinese economy and where it is, where it's doing better than we think. henry mcveigh will be on tomorrow. >> our thanks of course to david westin. this is bloomberg. ♪

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katie: let's look at some stocks hitting highs and lows this morning and we kick off with walmart hitting a 52-week high after target reports and underwhelming corridor. the traffic at target is lagging behind a 3.8% increase from walmart. shares currently higher by over 2%. let's take a look at the other side with lululemon hitting a 52-week low after the company said its chief product officer was leaving and will not be replaced. the news raising concerns the athleisure brand is losing its edge. you can see shares currently lower i 7.8% almost 8% at this moment as during an otherwise quiet day for the market the s&p 500 unchanged everything could change at 4:00 p.m. after the

bell when nvidia reports earnings. you have the salesforce ai ceo joining bloomberg technology next but that does it for bloomberg markets. i'm katie greifeld and this is bloomberg. ♪ so, what are you thinking? i'm thinking... (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride? swim with elephants? wait, can we afford a safari? great question. like everything, it takes a little planning. or, put the money towards a down-payment... ...on a ranch ...in montana ...with horses let's take a look at those scenarios. j.p. morgan wealth management has advisors in chase branches and tools, like wealth plan to keep you on track. when you're planning for it all... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management.

>> from the heart of her innovation, money and power collide in silicon valley and beyond. this is bloomberg technology with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: i'm caroline hyde in bloomberg headquarters in new york. ed: this is bloomberg technology. caroline: full coverage on nvidia. pushing ahead to that all-important earnings after the closing bell. >> apple looks to