announcer: from the heart of where money and power collide in silicon valley, this is "bloomberg technology" with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. ♪ emily: i am ed ludlow in san francisco. coming up, spacex weighing an offer that would value the company at $200 billion.

plus alphabet and meta are in talks with hollywood studios. canva takes on adobe users. let's get a check on the markets. lots of green on the screen. a nice way to end the week. the nasdaq tech heavy, the semiconductor index, both rebounding, moving higher after inflation's expert patient -- inflation expectations data made us feel more comfortable with rate cuts. we are going to talk about this throughout the program. it is down one percentage point but on track to have its best week in a year. lots to discuss with the potential of spot etf's with sonali basak.

let's go to the private markets. bloomberg is reporting spacex is considering an offer that would value the company at $200 million. that is where a company allows staff, employees, and some early investors to sell the shares they already own, existing shares, to outside investors. the price is set by elon musk, the cfo, and a lead outside investor. we are hearing the price could be up to $110. you do the math and that would be a jump in valuation to $200 million. that is a big number. let's talk about it with max, stored columnist at bloomberg businessweek covering technology and someone who has covered elon musk companies closely. the main point for me is simple. spacex's valuation keeps going up.

>> i think the last number we had heard, the last private valuation was $180 billion. this is a sizable jump. it is also a reflection, look, this is a fairly which are company. it is private. you need to be able to find a way, elon musk needs to find a way to give employees and venture capitalists who may need or want to get out a method to do that. because spacex has so much dominance in the market, it is not hard to find other investors willing to take over the shares at a premium. ed: you have documented throughout your career like in the early days of spacex, things were financially precarious. now, spacex basically dominates the industry for sending payloads, human and inorganic, from earth into orbit. summarize where they are in the

industry. max: thanks to the long collaboration with nasa, and nasa deserves a lot of credit for backing spacex with early contracts, but they are now the way the u.s. sends people and supplies to the international space station. it is a very lucrative business. there is the possibility the u.s. would like to get another source. boeing is working on its own systems. it is not like there is no competition. but when you take a few steps back and look at the volume of launches worldwide, spacex is dominating. it is sending up a very large percentage. with the expansion of starlink, elon musk's satellite internet platform, that has created this additional demand for launches, additional traffic coming on top

of these substantial government contracts. ed: i want to share elon musk's post on x again with our audience. republished this story -- we published this story and this was his response. spacex has no need for additional capital and will be buying back shares. we do liquidity rounds every six months approximately. my take is he is confirming the bloomberg reporting. they do not issue new shares and do not gain proceeds from the share. it is a transaction between employees and would-be buyers. max: i read it the same way. every now and then, you have a tender offer that could come with additional funding. i think he probably chimed in that this is not an effort to raise capital, this is just an effort to allow employees, early investors, however, to exit

shares. you do wonder, is elon musk going to be among the shareholders? he is the world's richest man but still owns a huge amount of spacex. it would be interesting to see if he would unload shares. i don't think we have any indication that would happen. that is something i will keep my eyes on as this story develops. ed: i did write to him and ask him. elon musk, if you are watching, please reply to my email. test number four for starship as early as june 5. that could move. based on how successful starship test three was, set the scene for what starship test four might look like. max: they have not made it into orbit yet but they have made it into space. i think it is important to keep in mind this is going to be a long process.

this is a totally new spacecraft. we have seen the previous launches end in fireballs. that is not necessarily a failure for this aircraft. they are still in development mode. this is a situation where things will progress slowly. ultimately, the goal is to have a functional, reusable, and much larger spacecraft than has ever flown that elon musk believes could be useful to send missions to mars. there are so many what if's. despite the fact this is using technology that spacex has been developing over a long time, the size is different, the scale is different. and then, there are questions about what you do with this in the interim. i do not think we will have a mars colony in the next couple of years. elon musk is going to want to find some thing to send into

space to fill up these giant rockets. ed: starship test four as soon as june 5. what a way to end the week. sticking with the world of elon musk, x ai is slated to complete a funding round in june that could value the company at more than $24 billion which includes the latest influx of cash. the source also said the final close has not happened in the deal but the company is getting closer to the $6.5 billion target in terms of the raise the next few weeks. coming up, we will be joined by cameron adams, chief product officer and cofounder of canva, on the heels of their customer conference. this is a company that i think has adobe in there sites -- th eir sites. stick with us. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

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ed: canva just unveiled his biggest redesign in more than a decade yesterday with new work based product and a new subscription to meet growing command and adoption by larger organizations. there is a lot more as well. let's bring in cameron adams, chief product officer and one of the cofounders. i have used canva on and off over the last decade. it is a significant redesign. i wanted to get to what prompted that, why you felt this was time for canva, 2.0. cameron: it is great to hear that you have used it.

we have seen more people bringing canva into the workplace and using it with their teams across the enterprise. we thought now was the perfect time to give it a glow up to make sure the interface and user experience matched what people were doing in the workplace. we also have the launch of our new canva enterprise package which is a product offering designed for large organizations where thousands of people are using canva and giving people like cio's and i.t. teams the tools they need to roll out canva at scale for multiple teams within the organization for the thousands of folks using it and be able to give each of them a customized experience. ed: is one of these situations where canva is like a global startup and you blink and it has grown so quickly. 185 million monthly users. more than $2 billion in revenue.

i want to go deeper. you talk about enterprise. do you have a clear split and what is the individual consumer user base and enterprise base? cameron: a lot of the growth the last 10 years has been our passionate community. they take it from using in their personal lives or side hustle. they often take it into their workplace. there will be one person using it and they will spread it through their team, maybe it is the marketing team, and it grows and grows. we see this rampant growth in so many companies now where we have canva used in 90% of the fortune 500. and a lot of those places, literally thousands of people are using canva. it is a way for the company to consolidate usage, make sure all of their i.p. is the same platform, that they are paying through the right channels, and those teams can work and collaborate with one another.

ed: i got on the canva website. i am going to lay this out for me simple perspective. i look at all the things offered. you guys are gunning for and taking on adobe, right? that is what you are trying to do here? cameron: ever since day one, we have identified this space in the market no one was really looking at between productivity and creativity. there is an intersection that is really interesting. it has obviously resonated with people. we have 185 million people that use the platform now and we continue to grow like crazy. we have proved out this next generation of visual content creation that needs to happen for all types of folks from marketing, to sales, to h.r., too creatives. we are continuing to see amazing growth. people are obviously resonating with what we are putting out.

ed: you are the chief product officer. we talked about the redesign and the offering. you are also one of the cofounders. let's talk about what happens next. you are growing. you are a richly valued startup. do you go in the ipo direction? or do you look at the m&a direction? where is your head at? cameron: we do not have much to share yet on ipo. we recently did a secondary for staff. it was one of the most subscribed secondaries in history which was a real vote of confidence from existing investors who wanted to reinvest and brought on high profile new investors. we are happy where we are at the moment and do not want to get acquired by anyone. ed: cameron adams, chief product officer and one of the cofounders of canva, really appreciate the update. it has been interesting to track your company growth. i want to correct something

discussed earlier with max chaffin. we were talking about starship. the test is going to happen as soon june 5 according to spacex. he said starship three had not reached orbital velocity. actually, in the test from march, it did reach orbital velocity. i want to correct that. we will get back to that launch later in june. coming up, here is what we will be talking about on "bloomberg technology." a lot of crypto discussion and in the world of startups. stick with us. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪ in minutes! -how? -a.i. (impressed) ay i like it! who wants to come see the future?! get your business online in minutes with godaddy airo

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source code capital is raising one of china's largest b.c. fund with a target of $300 million according to sources who say the goal is per luminary and could change. source code capital was one of bytedance's earliest backers. tiktok is making it easier for content creators to make money. although unofficially announced, users have noticed the threshold to drop the affiliate program dropped from 5000 to just 1000 followers. it promotes products and collects commissions on sales per delayed move could bring in users and bolster opposition to u.s. law that would force bytedance to sell the app or face being banned. openai is releasing past employee from a non-disparagement clause that tied together exit contracts and

equity awards. workers raised concerns after a report last week that would allow openai to call back stock if employees spoke out against the company. openai issued an apology for the contract and said it would remove the language from exit paperwork going forward. alpha back and met have held discussions with major hollywood studios about distancing content for use in the ai generation software according to sources. let's bring in lucas shaw who leads our screen time coverage and broke the story. that is interesting. these are sizable deals we are talking about. who is involved in the conversation? >> there are conversations happening between anyone with a big ai video model and hollywood companies, much as you are seeing conversations between

large language models related to text and news organizations, you can expect to see that with film and television studios. the difference is while we have seen some news organizations broker-deals with companies and we have seen lawsuits, and on the music side we have seen dealmaking and lawsuits, the video side is less mature. there are a lot of conversations happening. there are larger business development conversations between companies. you have seen companies show a different willingness with some companies. ed: i feel it the ai industry is doing laps of hollywood. you reported in march openai were open to having similar conversations. who has the upper hand? is it the sellers of content in

a position of power? >> it is a subject of some debate. on the one hand, you could argue the people who have the ai models have the upper hand because they tend to believe using a lot of this can be fair use could some believe they have already scraped a lot of information hollywood companies have. on the other hand, there is going to be a big debate over who controls things. there may even be a debate between the studio and the talent. there is some kerfuffle this week involving scarlett johansson and openai. i have seen credible people argue right now the companies have a decent amount of leverage because they have something these companies want and they might as well try to extract the most favorable terms while the ai models are still very nascent and not that powerful. ed: bloomberg's lucas shaw was another important piece of reporting on screen time. thank you.

let's go to another big story. intuit shares slipped by the most in more than a year after the company reported losing one million customers who use the turbotax service for free, stoking concerns about demand for the software. joining us is brody ford. the problem is a lot of what is on offer you can find somewhere else for free in some cases. >> yeah. what is so surprising is a big part of intuit's valuation is the idea that when you use it, it is rare to stop using it because you get all of your data in there, it becomes easy, it will import previous years information. i have used turbotax the last couple of years because it is easy. seeing one million free users leave makes investors say, what is going on at the low end of the market? part of it is there are other

places you can get this. one example is the federal government had a pilot program this year where about 150,000 people used it and they get a similar service for free. ed: i did something highly unusual this year. i was a turbotax user. i did something no one is doing. i hired and engaged with a human being to do my taxes for me, like the anti-ai play. the point is there are other things intuit does. it is not just turbotax. they are trying to be a one-stop shop. is that enough to keep them going? >> that was the dynamic we saw in earnings this year. people like the high touch, assisted methods that in some ways replaces your local tax store. at the high end of the market, they are doing well.

from people saying i do not need this c.p.a., i am not doing this, they are the ones who might have turned over to tax slayer or sites that look a little fishy but probably work fairly well. ed: yeah. maybe no comment on the complexity of human versus website taxes. real quick. you probably heard a minute ago we had cameron from canva on. the last thing he said, we do not want to be acquired. i thought that was interesting. what do you make of it? >> think about would acquire canva. it would have to be a massive company, probably with creative overlap. that is a small universe of companies. microsoft, adobe? we saw what happened when adobe tried to acquire figma. they were not allowed to do it.

ed: brady ford, happy friday. thank you so much. one final story before we go to break, shares of alibaba, the news overnight is in the credit markets. they sold $4.5 billion of convertible bonds, a record dollar denominated sale by an asian company. the finances of alibaba and its many arms are of intense interest. they were one of the laggards of the china consumer tech period we just had. stick with us. we have much more to come. from san francisco, this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

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ed: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." ed ludlow in san francisco. we are ending the week on a high in equity markets. the nasdaq 100 is my go to tech heavy index. it is trading at a record high. we are also on track for the fifth straight week of gains which is the longest streak of weekly gains going back to february. the story this week has been about nvidia propping up the market following its blockbuster earnings.

other names moved to the downside. we had the softer secondary data this morning. consumer inflation expectations, that made us think maybe rate cuts will happen at some point this year. who knows? the other big story of the week is what is happening in the world of crypto markets. i want to go to my dear friend, sonali basak, in new york, who would tell me all about ether. sonali, it has been a week of whiplash. but see how far we have come before we talk about the implications on what it would mean for the ftc to formally approve a spot ether etf. this is bitcoin on the screen. you do have it trading over 68,000. what did it take to get their question mark got only did we have the approval of the spot etf's. remember, there was a significant run-up in bitcoin to that time. we had tremendous inflows into the etf's after they were launched. you saw even more of a run-up.

in that time, we also had the have vending -- halvening where there was more interest in bitcoin. you see it plateauing since then. you wonder how much more will be flowing and now the initial exuberance is out-of-the-way. your trading below the highs of 7000, closer to 74,000 that we hit in february and leveling off under the $70,000 mark. ethereum has had similar gains. you have seen a rise more on a percentage basis this year then you have of bitcoin. almost a 63% rise in ethereum to date but a similar trajectory. a lot of excitement into the approval of the spot etf that brought you back closer to

$3700. i want to talk about this more. this is a lesser-known asset to the wider public then bitcoin. bitcoin you think of as digital gold. what narrative does ethereum take on? ethereum has a lot of use cases. there are a lot of people building on ethereum. it is more native than bitcoin and that people familiar with cryptocurrency will understand ether more closely than the broader public. creating the narrative into the etf's is another big question. there is another big player i want to talk about. that is coinbase. this is where all cryptocurrency assets came to play. a lot of people were wondering about what it would mean to have those etf's for coinbase. and yet you see coinbase has surged ever since.

there are a few reasons. one is that people have been active in cryptocurrency trading markets. another is they have been construed against to a lot of etf's have launched. a third reason i would give you a lot of people are watching closely as coinbase has this thing they call base. you are building layers on ethereum for the use case for ethereum over the next couple of years can be fascinating. coupled with the etf, let's see how it goes. ed: i am all about the base. sonali: [laughter] ed: happy friday. perfect set up. joining us is the delta chain partner. something sonali said, if bitcoin is the digital gold, ether is what in your mind? >> digital oil. ed: digital oil! extrapolate.

give me more on that. >> think of it like you have gold as a saving currency you use. think about how oil is running everything. it was always supposed to be a gas to run products on top of ethereum. that set up ethereum as a technology layer. you want to build on a base, anything building on base, all of those settle on ethereum and then use the currency as the gas price which is the oil. you can create as many cars as possible, you need to have the same fuel which is ethereum. ed: there are three things you have to untangle. thursday live market actual pricing on ether and in the middle is the underlying technology which we will debate. the third is trying to track the

relationship of the two. when i think about sonali's chart, the lead up to spot bitcoin etf approval, bitcoin hit new records. ethereum has had an astonishing run up in recent days and weeks. it almost caught people by surprise. i think you would make the argument it has not hit its record yet. >> i have gone on the record at bloomberg before and said i do not expect ether etf's to be approved this year. i think it has been a big political push because of the election year. pro crypto republicans have made democrats pay attention to it. we have an unprepared etf approval. we are still waiting for the trading to happen. the market expectations got

built in but it is not really there. we've not past the all-time high prices. i feel like a combination of a liquidity crunch in the traditional market, because of global circumstances with high interest rates, there is not much more liquidity. the markets did not close very well yesterday. i think the combination of all of that has dampened the liquidity on ethereum. ed: we write often that the ethereum blockchain is the most widely commercially used. why is that important? >> you can have multiple companies making the same product but if one company is very reliable, ethereum is the first. it has been reliable since then. it not broken.

has gotten congested once or twice because of nft's and meme coins and has surprise well and got back. you have the biggest global community. the biggest security, the most protocols with billions under management. it has not gotten hack from the ethereum network side. i think it is more about the trust and not only the trust based on the best network to build but relied on overtime to give you the result. i think that is why ethereum has continued to prosper. the decentralization people usually do not talk about it. we do not see that much in others. it is basically an ideal way to go about it. ed: thank you. happy friday.

i wonder if that takes off, like ethereum or ether the digital oil to bitcoin's digital gold. let's talk about on the social medias. we will be joined by the zoom founder and ceo about how she is disrupting the student transportation industry. i was crunching the numbers about the scale of u.s. school district buses. this is one you do not want to miss. everything ev next. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪ it! that's right craig. a team that's highly competent. i'm just here for the internets. at&t it's super-fast. reliable. you locked us out?! arrggghh! ahhhh! solution-oriented. [jenna screams] and most importantly... is the internet out? don't worry, we have at&t internet back-up. the next level network.

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ed: this is "bloomberg technology." you are looking at a live shot of the principal room. check out our podcast. you can find it on the terminal, apple podcast, spotify, iheart, and all of the bloomberg platforms. this is bloomberg. ♪ ed: let's get plugged in. it will be the first all

electric bus fleet serving a major u.s. school district. starting this coming august, the silicon valley startup zum will provide 74 electric buses to the oakland school district. and the buses will also supply 2.1 gigawatt hours of electricity to the bay area which is enough energy for 300 to 400 homes. zum founder and ceo ritu narayan joins me onset. this is an interesting development. a lot of our audience will be surprised it has taken to this point to have the first school district all electric fleet. explain the deal you have done with oakland. >> thank you for having me. i'm excited to be here. electric school bus is having a moment now. oakland unified will be the first major school district in the company to be 100% electric. we have enabled this by a few things. first, there is tremendous

support including the clean school bus initiative act at the local level grants available assisting the energy transition. the second thing very unique about this is all 74 buses are plugged into a platform that can supply energy back to the grid when these buses are not used for transportation which is typically in the evenings and summer which is also peak demand of energy. it is pretty amazing given the oakland community is really affected by the poor quality of air and the asthma rates. this is a tremendous opportunity. ed: we were looking at the scale of where zum operates around the country. the team were crunching the numbers on how far this is to go. when you think about u.s. school districts, i make that there are about 500,000 school buses across the country. many still run on diesel.

if that is true, you have a long way to go to electrify. how is that pace going to play from here. >> zum is in 14 states serving 4000-plus districts across the country and expanding nationally rapidly. for the fundamental foundation and playbook we have developed in oakland for electrifying the buses and working with all the partners in the ecosystem can now be extended and be available to all of the other districts. typically, people were doing one or two pilots or deployments at very low scale. with this kind of deployment now, the use is very positive for other districts across the nation. ed: where does the money come from to electrify school fleets? >> you will be surprised to know electric school buses are still

two to three times more expensive than the diesel buses. that is one of the reasons adoption has not been faster. what zum have been able to do is deployment at scale because of multiple reasons. one is there are tremendous supports available from the federal and state grants enabling us to reduce the cost of the buses. second is the electric school bus is the largest battery on wheels. it is four to six times the tesla battery with a local patent not used for transportation in the peak demand of energy. there is no other vehicle that has such unique battery. this allows us to give energy back to the grid and reduce the cost of the power. ed: great to have you on the show. thank you. let's move from buses to drone. one of india's largest drug companies is eyeing u.s. markets. listen to this. >> it is a bit rusty assembling

jobs but he has been doing it for two decades. first as a young i.t. engineer and now as the cofounder and ceo of ideaforge technology.

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ed: memorial day weekend is upon us in the united states. one start up is offering an alternative to traditional vacation with day-cations. offering the opportunity to rent out amenities at resorts without having to stay overnight. joining us is the ceo of resort pass who previously served as the coo of class pass. that is an interesting back story we will get to. tell me about the size of this market. a digital marketplace for daycations. >> thanks for having me. we enable day access to luxury hospitality. you are not staying overnight

but you can use all of the amenities you have always wanted to use but just for the day. we have sent over 3 million people to hotels already and are just getting started. ed: i am a religious number should point sky. at hotel chains, specific airlines. a lot of that has interoperability with my credit card. do you see those people as competition? >> no, we see them as partners. we work with top credit card companies and we are speaking to hotel partners about integrating into their loyalty programs. we just announced a large partnership with hilton, the second largest hospitality company in the world. we work with ritz-carlton, marriott, hyatt. we are expanding those relationships every single day. ed: explain the technology to meet. how are you booking sales or revenue on each transaction? >> we are both a consumer app and website that you go to buy these incredible local

experiences. when you go check in at the ritz-carlton in belle harbor, they are using our technology to check in, send inventory, set pricing, look at competitive data. we have invented the entire category from the consumer side all the way to the business side. ed: let's take memorial day as an example. memorial day in the u.s. honoring our fallen men and women of the armed services. when you have a holiday weekend like this, is there a big spike for you on the app and the website? >> absolutely. people want to experience local luxury without traveling. this summer, we are expending three times as many people to want to travel within 100 miles than internationally. our business spikes on weekends like memorial day and july 4 when we will send tens of thousands of people to over 1500 local hotels. ed: if there is a fancy resort or hotel out there that is skeptical, they do not want to

do business with you, tell them why they should, tell them why the daycations works. >> the reason it works is they are already allowing local guests from the local community in every day at the bar, restaurant, or spa. this is no different. it is just monetizing another piece of the hotel. they are smart about it with the broom product but have never done it with the rest of the hotel. this allows them to generate ancillary revenue. we are just getting started. ed: michael wolf, resortpass ceo, thank you for joining us on the program. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." it has been an astonishing week. nvidia was the mainstay of the week. we continue. a lot more to check out, a lot more to recap. really grateful to all of you

listening to the podcast on a daily basis. so many of you giving great feedback about it. find it on apple, spotify, iheart, and all the bloomberg platforms. for the final time this week, from san francisco, this is "bloomberg technology." ♪ (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride? swim with elephants? wait, can we afford a safari? great question. like everything, it takes a little planning. or, put the money towards a down-payment... ...on a ranch ...in montana ...with horses let's take a look at those scenarios. j.p. morgan wealth management has advisors in chase branches and tools, like wealth plan to keep you on track. when you're planning for it all... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management.

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sonali: i am sonali basak. "bloomberg real yield" starts right now.