>> from the heart of where innovation, power, and money collide, silicon valley and beyond, this is "bloomberg technology," with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: i'm caroline hyde. ed ludlow is on assignment.

this is "bloomberg technology." salesforce plunges as sales growth for the current quarter slows to its lowest in history. details to come. we continue earnings coverage and sit down with the ceo of c3 as they report on decent results. and we take aa deep divei into the elon musk universe. all of that and so much more, coming up. we are dragged lower by the absolute plummeting in salesforce, having an impact on the overall s&p 500. the nasdaq is off at the moment. interesting that the gdp number came to the previous quarter from u.s. growth the bad news, the yield comes down as inflation growth is cooling in the united states, helping bond markets -- around the world, higher to the .5% amount, giving energy to equities that isn't rolling into the united states at the moment, a lot of that is

on the micro data. let's look at what people have in terms of the earnings to digest. there is a ray of light, for some. hp went back to a commercial demand with growth in the pc part of the brit -- business. not so for printers, but when optimism goes forward for pcs, we are up 40%. ui path, not so, tumbling not only because it cut the forecast and spurred downgrades, but the ceo is also surprisingly departing to business. a worrying move in terms of market strategy going forward. a lot coming out about needham, sales off by a third. let's have a look at what's happening in terms of the key stock to watch. salesforce, that's down 20% in two days. why?

we are getting some really painful growth statistics. revenue is set to grow in the next quarter, but it's well down from what we usually see in terms of double-digit sales growth. is it not able to convert generative ai? brody ford was there to break the earnings after the bell yesterday. painful if you are not in the stock today. brody: here's what i think the big question is. as corporations want to spend money on genai, servers from dell, chips from nvidia, microsoft, where is the money coming from? jets are still tight. corporations want to spend money, it's a weird economic moment. where it seems to come from our these enterprise software giants. if you just bought a bunch of nvidia h 100, do you want to sign a seven-figure contract upgrade your crm system?

seems these are getting pushed out. while lower than expected, it's a concerning sign for investors that in this moment their ai spending is all the hype, they might not be the most relevant name. caroline: yeah, exactly echoed by rbc over there, saying that maybe the ai spend is coming at the expense of software players like salesforce or workday, which also had pretty poor earnings. the earnings are not being reflected by marc benioff, optimistic -- always has been -- but he is still showing exuberance saying that they are well-positioned. how do we buy that? brodie: his framing was interesting saying that they were well-positioned for ai in the next decade. they have a lot of interesting features and products coming out . you can generate emails or marketing stuff.

but that is not expected to create revenue until 2025 or 2026. here you can say that nvidia tripled earnings this year. dell is up double this year, right? a lot of the hardware names are. even azure has a boosted posting . or i can wait for these software makers like salesforce to generate revenue next year or the year after. it's too much of a wait and see story for investors want to wait. caroline: love that perspective. thank you for updating us on all things salesforce. technology on the private side, some of the competitors coming through in terms of competing with the likes of salesforce, we have the managing director at yuma crossing capital advisors. they are partnering to focus on investing in prominent private

technology companies, not just in the u.s., but in europe come over you are at the moment, and in asia where you have a lot of experience. i want to go to your experience having invested in one of the first checks, message bird, also known as bird, really helping with crm more broadly. is that the area where companies want to spend? the startup? at the expense of, say, salesforce? hiro: yes. first and foremost, pleasure to be here, thank you for having me we are in the early innings of ai at the application layer. message bird is in the communications space. there's a bunch of activity happening with fintech at ai being the underlying driver of a massive shift of new companies also tackling those pain points that individuals have, as well

as enterprises. this will be an exciting moment. like you said, there is the middle layer that's relevant to today. the computational power that then comes will allow us to go further, whether it is powered by openai, philanthropic -- there are a lot of great companies in the infrastructure layer that they will work with. caroline: hiro, how are you seeing the application layers weathering the costs of doing that business with access to costly large language models? hiro: that's a super good point, this will be an ongoing theme. the costs of doing business, the costs of enabling oneself with these large language models are being fine-tuned. also, the versions built on top of it -- i know that uber has their own.

you will see a lot of the adoption happening, those are the hyperscalers. as well as the big institutions. big banks, big financial institutions are the areas where people are activating to perhaps take advantage of the available ai power. this will be a costlier. caroline: therefore, we're in the ecosystem do you want to write checks? at the scene stage? where are the most appetizing risk reward? hiro: for me, what i have been doing my entire career is focusing on the mid to late stage development areas of the company lifecycle. what's happening at the seed stage level, they are early, these ai native companies, they are the versions happening at the day -- happening today at

the earlier stage. these companies will develop with meaningful technology and wonderful people driving the businesses. to me that captures the value in the transitional stage from adventuress to execution risk. caroline: what is interesting, of course, is how ucd exit strategy. if you are taking and writing checks in the older more burned-out -- built out as this is, like karma, spending a long time being very senior, highlighting the activity in european-style tubs. what do exit look like more broadly for you? hiro: i hear the broader market exits of 2022 in 2023 have been restrained, to say the least. going into 2024, these companies are great companies.

whether it is earlier or later, you have companies that defy categories looking to take on public capital to grow further. that moment will be dictated by market realities. we now have to really focus on both investing and taking the time to let companies develop. thinking about when the right time is to access public markets. i think they will be focused on market realities in order to enable that happen. caroline: here we are a global show and you have a lot of global experience helping asian companies cap u.s. public markets. you were working deeply within japan as well. can you give us a sense on where the energy lies. generative ai in particular, what's going on more globally? tom: i think that technology,

the market of technology innovation, it's ubiquitous and everywhere. there are versions that happen in asia and versions that happen in europe. as well as the u.s.. the center of gravity has to do with the current ai language center that we know about and speak of daily. those are west coast, you know, that is happening in the u.s. and on the west coast. in europe you are seeing companies that also are in the ai space, there are a lot in each region has the ability to create rate companies and this will continue to be the case in the near term. caroline: well, come back in the near term, we hope, hiro tamura, with his fascinating new fund. hiro: thank you so much. caroline: he's working with a key wealth management player, the managing director there, having a new funding announcement. coming up, we sit down with the

ceo of c3ai. shares jump as it drives the company guidance higher. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪ the future is not just going to happen. you have to make it. and if you want a successful business, all it takes is an idea, and now becomes the future where you grew a dream into a reality. the all new godaddy airo. put your business online in minutes with the power of ai. ♪

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how am i going to find a doctor when i'm hallucinating? what about zocdoc? so many options. yeah, and dr. xichun even takes your sketchy insurance. xi-chun, xi-chun, xi-chun! you've got more options than you know. book now. let's just check in on c3ai shares amid demand for artificial intelligence features. joining us now is tom seibold. looks to me like it's all about government spending. federal, local. why that focus? what's going so well? tom:

federal, our federal business, particularly the defense intelligence, grading 100% year-over-year, this is about government services. it's a huge adopter of enterprise ai. so is petrochemical and energy. across-the-board we are seeing substantially increased demand in applying enterprise ai to business processes and government processes, to defense and intelligence. caroline: what is interesting is we have had a bit of worry about corporate enterprise spending coming more generally from the results of salesforce today. what are you seeing in terms of enterprise? it looks as though the real beef of the growth is coming from the federal government. what is the sentiment like companies you are working with and the other sectors? tom: oil and gas, utilities,

consumer bank goods, agribusiness, we are seeing, you know, very significant growth and increased demand in enterprise ai. you can think of c3ai as really the first native ai company. we started 15 years ago building enterprise ai before google cloud, when aws was this big, before the graphical gpu. we spent billions building a software stack. today we have 90 turnkey applications for supply chain, demand chain, whatever it might be. we are in a little bit of a different class than these legacy application software people. this is the first enterprise ai play. caroline: you know those legacy people well, you sold to oracle.

i'm interested as to why, to be brutally honest, your share price hasn't been wrapped up in ai. if you are such a clear play, what do you think you still have to prove to the market at the moment? tom: we are at the early stages of the enterprise ai market. there's a lot of interest right now in silicone infrastructure. looking at the value of the stack, about that you have infrastructure. above that you have foundation models. then you have the applications. that's the portion at which we play. all of this silicom being sold, all the infrastructure the hyperscalers are selling, they are selling for one reason, enterprise applications, and that's what we do.

caroline: can you give us an anecdote of what a company is using your technology to achieve? tom: the air force is using it for productive maintenance for 22 weapons systems. by using predictive analytics, we can prevent unplanned system outages with increased aircraft availability on a given day by 25%. it's down here, steam cracking it, associated with polyethylene production, worth hundreds of millions. these are, these are very real applications with substantial economic return. the application at the air force might be the largest on earth. shell is realizing, you know, $2

billion in economic year, they call it shell ai with azure. returns are substantial. this is no drill, this is not height, this is real. caroline: is the risk real? we height the efficiency and market valuation of ai, but also sometimes in the media we like to hype the risks. what do you think about the risks? tom: risks are daunting and i would be afraid. we need to be very concerned about personal privacy. i believe that personal privacy is a fundamental human right, ok? ai threatens that. i think that privacy issues will be -- we are seeing social media, the ai in social media has been used -- it's a public health hazard.

think about depression, suicide, body issues and young women. these technologies are being used to interfere in democratic processes. the risks associated with ai are very real, we need to be concerned, plan for them, and avoid them. caroline: keep coming with those ideas and the solutions to plan for. tom, thank you for joining us there. coming up, we talk about elon musk wearing maybe one too many hats. we will discuss that, next. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

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caroline: first up, the biden administration is set to host an event on competition in ai and the big names haven't been

invited. nvidia, alphabet, microsoft, all absent from the panel. the workshop is set to bring together top the ferns along with other forces in the u.s., u.k., and eu, according to the attorney general antitrust. they say the speaker list was intentional and that the impact is just beginning from the economic perspective. speaking of a conference in singapore, the company ceo said that the latest model is becoming more intuitive, spurring or adoption, saying that over a short amount of time the ai systems have entered the workforce as collaborators. donald trump and elon musk talking about a possible advisory role for the trump -- for the ceo if trump wins the election. that is according to "the wall street journal formal input around borders and the economy. the role may not happen,

however. that would be yet another hat or elon musk. meanwhile, tesla is a company is in a bit of disarray. layoffs are mounting. stocks are cratering, seals are anemic, and some say that there is a destructive leader at the helm because elon musk runs five other companies. is everything all right in the elon musk universe? can you articulate the universe of elon musk? who helps to run it? can you give us a sense of who helped us to do that he dive? >> as you mentioned, he's running six companies at once, but there is only so many hours in the day. who are the people carrying out the day end, day out tasks of running these businesses. it's not always clear. it's a tough reporting challenge to figure out who the power players are in his orbit.

we tried to map this out into what we called a solar system of the sun at the center with elon musk and everyone else rotating around him. is a slight to space x and his ambitions in space. this also just the reality. if you work for him, you are at his back and call. we tried to map this out for people. we get a sense of who the people are doing the day in and day out. . caroline: it's a pretty diverse cast of characters, a couple of women are in their fig about space x and twitter. >> each company has their senior leaders running. . i feel like if you looked, though at the advisors that he has that tend to show up at various companies, like his lawyer, alex spyro, you think of

jared burchell, his business manager shows up repeatedly. there are other advisors who show up on various or multiple boards. people who don't have a formal role at these companies. these solar system here is supposed to show these various relationships and how they intertwine. intertwine they do. these things are all coming together on any given day. caroline: while he's still fighting for his pay package, he wants more of a controlling stake in tesla with shareholders pushing back, thinking that he is distracted. is he? or is he delegating? >> i don't know how you cannot be distracted running that many companies at once. it's a key thing, all of his wealth is tied up in tesla. but they are not performing well there is a trickle-down effect to these businesses.

it's where he gets his power. as a result, xai for his boring company suffer. caroline: great breakdown. thank you. talking of space, asd is looking to take on the likes of starlink. conversation with the ceo, next. meanwhile, telecom italia, going to break, kkr is looking for eu approval for a deal. gan an in the chase app. when you've got a decision to make... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management. when you automate sales tax with avalara, you don't have to worry about things like changing tax rates or filing returns. avalarahhh ahhh

caroline: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." let's get a quick check on the markets. a little bit of suppressed enthusiasm around tech stocks. even as borrowing costs come down. the 10 year, four point 54 is where retrade and that's more on the macro picture. gdp slowing with inflationary pressures meaning that the fed

can cut. we come down on borrowing costs with nasdaq under pressure for micro data earnings. bitcoin is currently off by 1.5%. more new music to the upside. 68,000 on the crypto, that's where we dig later in the show. moving on to the individual movers, perhaps tugging down the overall risk sentiment protect stocks. down 21% for salesforce. seeing them slide the rest -- the most, slow quarterly sales growth, slowest in their history. with the generation of artificial intelligence, it won't generate revenue anytime soon. it's down by 35%. smaller business, yes, with a focus on automation software and what generative ai and compact -- competition means for them. also the fact that they are seeing the ceo take a surprise

departure. dell technologies, off by 6%. it has had a record winning streak up until this day. we had been near record highs. dell got the earnings after the highs. what will it mean for dell? server demand, many think that it's good news, but it is trading a high valuation moving across to the theme that we have been seeing, satellite to phone service provider ast space mobile added to the recent deal with the company for at&t and as you see, shares have surged so far this month. it is all about the news of 100% coverage coming and the end of dead zones. is it beckoning? joining us is the cto. this is what you are saying, the deal being struck with verizon and at&t, you can offer 100% coverage satellite to mobile in the future. why do you need this spectrum?

what does it mean to have these partnerships? >> the spectrum is an essential part of the service. at&t, verizon, they have a premium spectrum across the united states. we need that in order to make it available on everybody's phone. that's where the partnerships make a lot of sense. the plan is to eliminate it with the united states and we don't do that along. we do it with two of the largest companies in the country, enabling connectivity for people regardless of where they are and the phone in their pocket. in fact, -- caroline: in fact, this is a worldwide theme that we are seeing with you. we -- we immediately think of competition when it comes to space x and starlink. how are your offerings different ? t-mobile has gone with starlink. abel: differentiation is, first of all, we don't need a special terminal or device to connect to

the phone. in the case where they had services that were similar, we believed that ours was the only one offering brought and connectivity in a sustainable way. only 90 satellites with 3400 for pending claims and the largest satellites launching into low-earth orbit. so, our, our technology really differentiates us from everything else in the market. this has been proven. we get constant overwhelming support by the wireless industry. now, the addition of verizon with at&t is living proof of that. caroline: let's talk about the low-earth orbit get the satellites you have to put their. now you will be using space x to do so. what does the pipeline look like in terms of getting them going? abel: we had an immediate launch this summer, satellites to be used for our partners and by the

government. so, we are launching this summer and we will continue to launch through 2025 and 2026. we have emerging services soon. caroline: i like that you say commercial services. the deal with verizon isn't yet commercial, it's strategic. when does it become commercial? abel: the deal is actually prepayment to use our service. committing $100 million to use our service, $35 million with 65 million in prepayments. we plan to enable verizon under a 50 megahertz three-minute spectrum, together with the megahertz for at&t. in terms of getting access to the network.

caroline: your share prices have rocketed in the last month. not as high as we have seen in previous years, 2021, but what does that volatility feel like when you have been in the game of space for over two decades? abel: listen, the opportunity that we have is very, very large . there is a $1 trillion market growing faster than the population. we had the fact that 90% of the earth's surface has not settled on broadband. we have 5 billion phones getting in and out of connectivity every day. this is a massive market. we are just at the beginning. we are just kicking off with initiating services, starting with the launches over the summer.

looking at it for the investors, i think the industrial support and the on take of our customers, you basically have the global operators talking about themselves. caroline: the digital divide, when billy see and end to it, do you think? when can we get 100% coverage for the world and everyone lucky enough to have a cell phone? abel: absolutely. this is an area where we share common goals, eliminating this not only in the united states but also as an american company, we are extremely focused on the united states where it remains to be a problem, including globally. the u.n. commissioner for global connectivity is committed to democratizing access to

knowledge and information. we believe that this technology can make a huge. there is no reason why with today's technology and advancement capability and out type of satellites, there is no reason why people cannot get access using 5g anywhere, wherever they are. caroline: ast ceo, abel, we appreciate you coming of it all the deal flow. coming up, we will be joined by adam when shaw. really pitting llm versus llm. meanwhile, what shares of amazon , not of the ai focus but because of the food focus. why? the grubhub unit, amazon is increasing a station it to as much as 80. expanding the partnership to get food delivery services within the amazon. doing well for the takeaway that

just stopped trading in europe. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

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caroline: you are looking had a live shot of the principal room. check out what we provided on the terminal, as well as apple, i heart, you are tuning in when it's good for you. this is bloomberg. it's good for you. arthur, the company that provides firewalls for large language models, just released the general assessment of the large language project. various mlm offerings from industry leaders, we spoke it all down with the ceo, adam wenchel. it often feels that when openai comes out with a large language model, they said they are bettering things, grading their

own homework, but how do you do it from a benchmark perspective? adam: we want to give people the tools to graded on how well it does. answer customer service or help with financial analysis, how well does it do at your particular task? a lot of times, that's a completely different number than the industry benchmarks getting thrown around. caroline: when you have done this particular report, one of the key findings seems to be -- does it need to be expensive? cheaper offerings are good and powerful. adam: absolutely. when we first started to measure and assess, even six months ago, there was a huge difference in their ability to answer basic questions with fast forward to today, we are finding that there are so many open-source commercial models doing a good job of answering questions. now what you want is one that is really fast, really expensive,

uses the data that you give it, answering based on that. that is a lot of what we focus on. that is what the business users care about, the people trying to run the enterprise and build applications on top of that. caroline: positive across the board, seems to be coming down, making it up and bringing it down. who is coming out on top? from your standards, who is benchmarking well? adam: there are a lot of good open-source ones, but one of them is the new haiku model from the anthropic. it's good, does great with the material that you give it, feeding corporate data, it does a good job answering the question based on that data, lighting fast and inexpensive. these are all doing extremely good jobs, the various models. people are choosing out the

other things around how little does it hallucinate, how well does it work for my business applications? that is what we help people measure and navigate. caroline: how are you measuring costs? there must be costs till 10, all sorts of layers. permitting services, giving you the access to computer. adam: when you work with someone like openai or anthropic, they extract away and you pay one price. open-source models, there are some riders that like aws, but a lot of times what people want to be able to do is run their own gp use their, giving them more control in better guarantees around data privacy and other advantages. it also comes with a lot of assurance about what's going on and you can kind of guarantee where your data is going. caroline: ultimately, your

business is about making sure these companies can adopt large language models safely, making it the best fit for their business. what our business is doing right now? i'm hearing data that they are fearful and not adopting generative ai as quickly as we would like. adam: there are some but we have several customers adopting them very aggressively. they are being cautious. they are starting with internal use cases, typically. everything from generic copilots to answering technical problems, like an industrial field rep equipment manufacturer adding complicated questions. the ability to answer those questions has been transformed by generative ai. a lot of use cases, there. there's a real difference between the companies that made announcements what we would do with ai to get a bump in the stock price in those who are putting in the work to create

business and real-world value from ai, because that and that is what help people measure. ai performance and the value you are creating from it. caroline: many have the anxiety that it comes at the costs of jobs. but many adopting quickly have to get in their own technical talent. how is that going for them? adam: we have seen no evidence that people are losing their jobs. what we have seen our people becoming more efficient, like large functions where you might have to hire 500 foot per year, you could do 300 or 400, making that more efficient. they are good at incorporating the copilots with other system tools into the workflows. we use it on developers, we use it in a number of ways. i use it all the time to write year-end reviews and things like that. there are all sorts of ways you can incorporate it into your day

to day. caroline: all about being a first adopter in these moments. thanks for dropping in, giving us a take on actual adoption of generative ai. plenty of news to discuss, coming out, with gel lack -- jalak. apple right now, the share price is only up 7/10 of 1% on a down day. they are looking for a senior engineer to help build a television sports app for android, a sign that we could be ringing tv plus services to rival platforms. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

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caroline: -- >> is a foundational piece of the ecosystem. >> i'm not a fan outside bitcoin. >> it's going to d -- define crypto. >> you have the biggest security, the most defi protocols. >> bitcoin is the only money within the cryptocurrency space designed and treated as a monetary asset. theory m is a technology -- ethereum is technology. >> it's building the finance.

>> one company, it like the first one, can ride the coattails. >> without question, it's the most active in the space. >> it's more about trust. >> this is an asset that people want to own. ask the market needs to sorted out. >> i'm very bullish on ethereum and the entire ecosystem. >> just a few of our guests weighing in on the ethereum etf as we wait on u.s. investment numbers. let's check in with jalak, managing partner and founder of future perfect ventures. you focus on decentralized technologies. more broadly, it's a decentralized space. if you want to look at the decentralization, many feel that it won't be as popular as the bitcoin.

jalak: great to be with you again. i love those clips of my colleagues and friends discussing the developments we have seen in this space. i think that these etf's, we have the bitcoin etf that was approved earlier this year. ethereum was approved last week. we believe that we are going to allow retail to have a lot more access to these crypto assets. we are going to see many more of these etf's being approved. its retail institutions that don't want to custody their own assets, they want exposure to the upside that these can provide. but it's very clunky to go out and buy ethereum core bitcoin and learn to trade it. these provide an alternative for millions of people around the

world. caroline: many people will feel that the issue they have with ethereum is that they won't be getting money and rewards back if you are fidelity, running the etf. in that way, is there going to be liquidity issues or a lack of ultimate demand coming? people do want to own ethereum and steak at themselves. jalak: to get approval, a number of the applicants for the etf took out the staking part of it. i believe that there is enough upside on the core asset. there are so many developers. this is still one of the largest chains out there. it's been around the longest. there are decentralized applications being built. staking can provide extra yield,

i don't think it's necessary to be able to realize the upside of the underlying asset. caroline: jalak, you launch your first decentralized focused fund back in 2014. this must feel very strange as suddenly the government, pivoting almost on a dime, is getting more interested. is this because of it becoming politicized ahead of the election? jalak: there is no doubt that it is being politicized. donald trump came out and said that he would support the crypto industry. this administration, the current administration, has been very anti-crypto. we started seeing that, you know, last year when they shut down signature bank. they made it very difficult to provide clarity these assets. so, you know, i think that we

do, we will hear more about crypto during the election. we are also seeing congress to really start to push through legislation that will provide clarity that the industry has been for. last week, for 21 was passed by the house. it was pretty bipartisan. there were more republicans than democrats who voted for it. the bill will provide clarity on which tokens will be under se jurisdiction. which will be under sec jurisdiction. it's been a big sticking point around security and commodity and knowing which is which. there is also, there are all sorts of other relation put in there for customer protection. moving forward, it goes to the senate next. we will see what happens. biden has said he isn't going to veto it, a positive sign. caroline: jalak, great to have

your expertise that has been built over many years. i'm sure everyone will be discussing the politicization of your area. jalak, thank you. meanwhile, that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology ." don't forget to check out our podcast. you can find it on the terminal, but if you are an apple, spotify, i hard, there is, come relive it with us. this is bloomberg. ♪ feel more confident with stock ratings from j.p. morgan analysts in the chase app. when you've got a decision to make... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management. sales tax automatically. avalarahhhhhh what if tax rates change?

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♪vonnie?: welcome to bloomberg markets. the dow is resolved in the last minute and it resumed a few moments ago in the s&p, 500 is trading once again. there