spirit carolyn: live from new york and san francisco, this is "bloomberg technology." coming up, apple iphone confidence, but regulatory risks. details ahead. ed: plus, businessweek's definitive story on the eeev ternium -- turnaround plan for rivian. carolyn: and elon musk tees up a new plant. let's check in on the broader tech index. i am afraid that soothing of concerns around inflation has not driven up the tech stocks. bond markets, yes. they are on fire. but today, the nasdaq is off by 1.2%. some players on the downside,

nvidia being one. but you look at other key names under pressure. ed: apple is a big point. there are so many headlines out in the first instance with the stock up one point in the session. on track for its biggest drop since march. seeing confidence in a refresh cycle for the iphone. then there is the bloomberg reporting that apple has said to its suppliers we want to boost shipments by 10%. there is growing momentum around the iphone story, up 18% or so year to date, but by no means one of the best performers. then you talk about the regulatory risk. apple avoiding sanctions in the eu. give me the details. carolyn: i really think at the moment we are seeing this apple concern and the fact that eu regulators are basically forcing them to open up the wallet situation, the fact that we are seeing fintech being all eyes on the prize. maybe a boost to paypal.

this is the way eu regulators have decided big tech needs to start opening up their gardens. please dissect for us apple under pressure, big tech more broadly on the day. as ed articulates, there is some music around iphone supply and demand. but at the same time, there are these regulatory risks forcing business model change. >> apple has performed really well over the last couple months. if you go back in april, i think it is up 35 or 40% since then. the rebound has been driven a lot by apple's ai story, which i think has been well for the investors. yesterday was the first big time news we got in terms of iphone shipment improvement. i don't remember the last several years looking at that kind of news. i think that really says there is a lot of hype/expectations about the iphone 16 and what it could do to apple's plan. ed: the other big story is that

apple has avoided a fine from the eu because it has opened up its mobile technology to others. it has made a concession. how do you think that impacts the ios ecosystem? anurag: apple's cfo commented that the app store revenue from the eu accounts for about 7% for those sales, so it is not that big of a deal. this is nothing new. we are seeing the eu cracking down on all big u.s. firms. i don't think it is going to stop any time soon. i don't think these cases are going to go away. from a financial point of view, it is not going to hurt them as much as the headlines suggest. ed: anurag rana of bloomberg intelligence, thank you. i mentioned there were many headlines about apple. apple and microsoft have dropped plans to take roles at openai in a surprise decision among growing regulatory scrutiny. here in sanford, bloomberg

technology senior executive editor -- executive editor tom giles. microsoft's investment in ai is well known. but apple was due to get an observer role. now neither of them will. tom: openai's board was starting to get really crowded with big, powerful tech companies, the most powerful tech companies in the world. that is a bad look when you are under regulatory scrutiny, when everyone is worried about a concentration of power and money around openai. basically one of the biggest, if not the biggest, generative ai companies. he was just getting too chummu y with microsoft and apple. carolyn: they were focused in on microsoft ultimately doing a form of m&a by stealth. does that drive home the case?

anurag: microsoft -- tom: microsoft is the biggest investor to the tune of $13 billion. micro soft is weaving openai technology into a lot of its own products. apple is doing the very same thing. it is not an investor to that degree, but it is using openai's technology throughout its software to make it -- basically to get people to spend more time on their iphone, to make the iphone more useful. both of these things are showing how important it openai is, and how important the relationship is with big tech companies that want to get a piece of the hottest generative ai property in the world. that is where regulators are having a hard time. they are worried about competition, they are worried about other companies getting access to this technology, they are worried about concentration.

this is where you are seeing it come unraveled. removing those board observer roles. ed: even that might not be enough. regulators in the u.s. will still look at microsoft like, you did not notify us in advance about the deal. tom giles who leads our technology coverage around the world, thank you so much. sticking with big tech, we are watching shares of google and hub spot. google down, alphabet, down 2%. hubspot down 0.8%. this is a story we have been tracking across the newsroom. what is next? carolyn: a story that is beautifully written by none other than yourself. we are talking about rivian's race against tesla. an alternative route to woo tesla customers. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

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ed: it is time for talking tech. first, a deal to go global. stellantis has partnered with a chinese company. the joint venture would allow stellantis to access leapmotor's technology, while allowing leapmotor to build and sell cars in stellantis' network. plus, bloomberg spoke with the ceo of lucid earlier today. >> this is an intensive business

and we need to raise more money. we will as opportune in the future. our vision is to be a major player here. ed: the company has license deals with the like of aston martin and discussions with others. auto plants get a lifeline. the biden administration is allocating money for assembly plants in eight states, converting them to support ev manufacturing. the funding is being made available to the inflation reduction act. it is subject to negotiations and other reviews before becoming final. carolyn: we are going to stick on the cv train. yourself and mr. max chafkin are out with an in-depth piece on rivian and vw's partnership, how the ev maker is basically banking on the anti-tesla crowd. walk us through who you first spoke to. there is a particular person we

hear from who sums up how a lot of tesla people and owners feel right now. ed: we spoke to many of them. there is this great body of former tesla fans, fan boys, owners, that community online that has basically defected to rivian for a lot of reasons. i think max would agree, it is not very difficult to find them. this was one case study. we spoke to several of them. the point being that was rivian 's original audience, and they've got a lot to do. max: what you see when you talked to a lot of rivian owners, it is interesting because it tells you a lot about where the ev industry is going and where tesla is going, or where tesla has at times gone wrong. it is not that these people are necessarily big tesla haters. they are not the folks on x who are talking about shorting the stock or anything. they are often just car people who are interested in ev's, much more interested than robotaxis

or promises about brain implants or whatever, and also interested in new models. when you look at where tesla has arguably made some mistakes and rivian has done well, if tesla comes out with a cyber truck that looks something like the rivian r1t, which is their pickup truck, i think it would have been a more successful launch. it is an interesting crossroads situation. ed: i wanted us to do this story because i have covered rivian for many years and never had an experience in my career where a company has gone from such euphoric highs to really down in the doldrums. this was the sixth biggest ipo in u.s. history, the biggest since facebook, and now the stock would make you think it is a lucid. but to their credit, rivian is another beast. they actually make ev's. we wanted to explain how they get to the next stage, which is to get nearer to tesla. carolyn: i like that, they

actually make ev's. they have not been producing them at the rapid clip many thought. they have got a new prototype that is just a prototype. when do we get the r3? max: you have two situations going on. one is that car manufacturing is difficult. we have seen this with many of these automotive startups. it takes them longer than they want. rivian also faced a lot of supply chain challenges, especially during the pandemic. the thing is with ev's, they are selling a lot of these very expensive suvs and pickup trucks. they are getting really good reviews. the truth is, and the ceo of rivian spoke to us about it, there is a limited number of people who want these things. what the industry needs and what climate advocates need is more affordable cars. and rivian is trying to get there as quickly as they can. they are working on the r2. the factor in illinois, -- the

factory in illinois, they are starting to get ready already. when i was out there a few weeks ago. the long-term plan is this r3, this almost mythical cheap electric car, the electric car everyone can afford. but it definitely is a long way from being real. ed: it is also like they are running out of cash, and one of the important points we make in this story is some of the reasons why they pivoted to illinois, and that is they were running out of money partly because, according to our sources, the doe said if you want some of this money from the inflation reduction act, you have to change your position on unions, and we understand that is just not happening right now. max: you have this frantic scramble. the weird thing is rivian has a lot of cash, it is just that making cars is so expensive they are burning even more, and it was -- as we run the story, it was looking increasingly unlikely that they would be able to open this plant in georgia. looking to the biden

administration, to the federal government like many companies, and ultimately not getting there, as we reported the story, these negotiations are ongoing. it is possible they will reach some sort of dale. -- some sort of deal. this is why the stock went way up when the deal was announced. carolyn: i love how we end on stock. we started on stock. one of the greatest pieces you have out of there is how the main owner of tesla says there are two types of test loners, the stock owners and those who own the cars. great reporting from both of you. coming up, we will talk to lin qiao and talk about the company's plans. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

ed: today for our ai in action segment, we are joined by lin qiao, the ceo of fireworks ai, discuss thecompany's latest series of funding, $32 billion, and therapy -- $52 million. you describe yourselves as a lightning fast program. the basics of what a lightning fast inference platform is? lin: thanks for having me here. at fireworks, we deliver one of the fastest and most cost efficient search engines with our proprietary technology. we want to address the challenge

of many applications that require low latency to drive responsive experiences, and very low cost to deliver viable, sustainable business. it is very difficult because large language models are big. to meet all those parameter requirements are challenging. here, we focused on how those applications get there. ed: this is something targeted at both developers, but also potentially enterprise customers. if i were one of those two groups, how would i use fireworks? give me some examples or case studies. lin: we have many customers from leaving startups to fortune 500 companies using fireworks to disrupt the status quo. the startups using fireworks to drive new creative ideas, and digital native companies using fireworks to deliver new products. fortune 500 companies use fireworks to drive productivity. we have cresta, cursor./

carolyn: we are seeing some of your clients and investors. this is a who's who of strategic investors. nvidia is in, amd is in, mongo db is an. how was the fundraising experience? lin: we are blessed to be supported by so many industry-leading investors. we also have investors from nvidia and mongo db joining force. we plan to use this funding in the following areas. number one, to expand our offering in our ecosystem. two, to expand into the best and latest powered by nvidia. and much tighter integration with database management systems, starting with mongo

db's strategic partnership. carolyn: we are looking at how the system works a little bit right now. going back to your affordable generative ai production platform, because that is what you are, production platform. your helping companies -- you are helping companies use ai. but it is not in large linkage models. not these massive closed source ones, but about open source models, smaller ones, finer tunes. what is the future of compound ai systems? lin: right. so, we started from the large language model because they are very powerful, but those single models are not sufficient. as we are having this interview and conversation, we are using the audio and visual information. in fireworks, we want to use the funding to make a big shift toward the compound ai system that can orchestrate across

multiple single models with various different modalities, and then ai tools to reach, for example, the latest news from bloomberg, or my personal calendars or personal to do list, and view the totality of the great application experience. ed: i think it would be really beneficial for our audience to explain how different it is building on an application specifically in the inference domain. i think of a lot of what we focused on in the last two years or so is everyone everywhere building large language models, or otherwise training the model in specific data sets. what has that experience been like for you as you have built fireworks? lin: we are hyper focused on inference for the following reasons. because most of the genai technology, consumer facing or developing facing applications. they have a lot of users.

when you scale your product, that means you will quickly scale your business and your inference cost. scalability and liability in maintaining very expensive models and production in a reliable way is very important. we predict that market is going to create huge amounts of experience, and that is where the enterprise is leading to solving problems. carolyn: lin qiao on the latest funding round. we thank you for your time. earlier, bloomberg caught up with a partner at lightspeed venture partners to discuss ai and capital markets. >> what we would anticipate seeing is pricing coming down. our perspective is perhaps the most dangerous perspective to have at times like this when technologies are changing so rapidly is to think that we know

what the answer is going to be. we don't. but here is what we believe, which is that in a world in which the volume of calls expands exponentially, which we will see as more enterprises adopt generative ai. but now, if you think about a world in which we have multiple agents operating on our behalf and enterprises have multiple agents operating on their behalf also making calls, then the volume of calls that are made on these foundation models is going to be absolutely massive. while the price may come down, the volume of calls will be extremely high, and we expect compute costs to decline. i would argue in that world, these companies at scale will absolutely be able to make a profit. but we don't know. these are things we don't know. it is dangerous to be too rigid with a particular point of view

and we are remaining open minded. >> is there pressure you put on some of these companies around monetization? are you getting to those points where you have these monetization number stations? >> i think these founding teams recognize, given the cost of compute and capital intensity of these businesses, there's only two ways you can manage the capital intensity. one is you will keep managing capital. the other is you have to earn revenue. i think the answer will be both. you can't rely on the capital markets. the private markets have embraced these companies so far, with these companies raising billions of dollars, and most recently x ai raising $7 billion. but you cannot assume that will always be the case. we are beginning to see companies like openai scale revenue very fast. >> in terms of the venture capital world and the structure within that structure, we are looking at this continuation fund. essentially allowing investors to take about $1 billion of

stakes in your portfolio company. praying about $1 billion. what is the rationale behind that? >> the rationale is companies are staying private for longer. at the same time, we want to be able to support those companies, yet recognize some of our lp's who are investors in the funds, it is important to drive liquidity back to them. how do we solve both of those problems? it is, for example, to take a set of what are still very healthy companies and put them into what is a continuation vehicle, where the underlying lp base may change,, that provides liquidity to lp's that want it. others may not and they can roll over. it enables lightspeed to continue to steward those possessions and be a partner to those companies. carolyn: coming up, we discuss ai in the brain. how the company's brain interface is using tech. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

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>> new straight research put out a note saying we think we are fully priced in at these levels for nvidia. but some of the individual movers, tsmc down almost 3.5%. this after they hit a new record. a $1 trillion company, if the

biggest in the world, their numbers showed 40% growth in the previous quarter. maybe we are seeing some profit taking. netflix, we have earnings coming up. citi getting cautious ahead of those numbers. tesla up by 0.5%. almost an 11 day running streak. ed: it is musk all the time because all of the companies that he is at the home of. -- at the helm of. one aims to implant their device in a second human patient in about a week and have devices in a few more patients by the end of the year. this is according to a video update we got from elon musk. joining me on set is sarah mcbride, who does a very good job keeping across the payoffs payoffs and bring technology stories. that's the news. they say they are making progress towards a second patient. what did you learn in the presentation? what's it's interesting.

when they implanted the first patient it went wrong and some threads retracted from his brain. most interesting were the steps they said they would take to mitigate for that. they will unlearn the device more with the curvature of the school and try to place the threats that drop down from the device in a more targeted way in the brain tissue and implant them deeper. >> this was kind of classic elon musk related company stuff. he's like on x, the platform he owns saying we will go live in five minutes. this team of people in a conference room, who were some of the people? i guess we aren't as familiar with normal -- neurallink as

spacex or tesla. >> to his right with matthew mcdougall, the chief surgeon that gave most of the updates and to the right of him was the president of narrow link -- ne ural link and that they had the person in charge of software and brain implant devices themselves. caroline: there was the short term practical use cases and then the long term. then there is a long coming front and center again saying he is mitigating the longer civilizational riches ai. why does he think this is the path for that? sarah: his idea is i i could end up being a malevolent fourth -- is ai could end up being a

malevolent force. so if you put implant in her burns we will have superhuman powers. he said we might be able to communicate wordlessly or essentially download languages into our brains. he thinks that those types of superior functions will help us fight artificial intelligence if we need to. caroline: sarah mcbride on the latest. we want to talk about competitors in the space. sarah mcbride has been writing about one when it comes to this technology. synchron is announcing it is tapping openai technology by helping paralyzed patients communicate. we have tom oxley in the studio. sometimes it feels like neurallink takes the oxygen out of the room when it comes to these devices.

you have 10 patients using euros. how will openai help them? tom: you can help people that are paralyzed and cannot control their bodies express themselves. the problem with process is lack of autonomy. it is a problem in medicine that does not have any treatment options. when you are paralyzed to do rehab and there aren't many treatment options. there's a huge unmet need and massive potential for a large market to develop. it's exciting. i think elon musk focusing on this field is great. i am not sure about the future vision, the idea of fighting ai. there is a more important short-term use case to help a massive medical need. we are focused on applications that will help patient autonomy. when chatgpt four point know, the multimodal gpt came out we realized it was a huge ability for patients that lack the ability to engage in the world

to improve both input and output with the system. caroline: how will gpt four enable them to communicate? tom: the multimodal takes input from text, video, and audio and can use all of that to generate prompts that enable users. in our case we can use our hands to interact with prompts. patients that are paralyzed cannot engage with prompts. we built into a chat feature that we just released in demo today where the multimodal gpt generates a language prompt for the users. that's the input. the output is the selection of a prompt to generate the next action. the bci sits in the middle. the bci represents your ability to make a choice. that is what you use -- players if you are paralyzed, your ability to engage and make choices.

the bci is a digital representation of what you want to do. the future of the link between bci and ai is linking from the brain to make selections from prompts and engage with the digital world. ed: tom and i were on stage together a couple months ago in san francisco. you were talking at that time about the progress that could be made with your different delivery system. neurallink is straight into the brain through the school. you do this through the cardiovascular system. what has this unlocked in terms of the cadence of putting into the real world? it is something i was fixated on with you when we were talking. tom: we see two approaches of getting into the brain. cutting open the head and going in with cables, or coming in through a blood vessel using a stent. this this out we have differentiated.

we think this will be the natural solutions. in medicine there are many examples of minimally invasive approach is given to market, pacemakers. critically the infrastructure to deliver at scale already exists and we think this will be the natural progression of the technology. the challenges we do not have as much information coming out of the brain. the key has been, how can we use information of the brain to deliver, navigate, and select, how you control the platform. we have an interaction method that delivers navigate and select. we are using the apple ios accessibility platform to deliver that and we are infusing multimodal chatgpt to allow users to make choices interacting with prompts in a way that's amazing. mark, one of our users in pittsburgh has been using the system. we released a demo today about how he is using it and we are very excited about especially using openai moving forward with

these programs. bringing in video as an endpoint will be exciting for patients. that will be the future. ai for knowledge and selection, bci for expression of intent. caroline: this is beyond hard, complicated, and expenses. are you looking to raise funds? do you have a pipeline of people looking in -- to back and expand your project? tom: we are excited to have investors we are looking at. we have a decent runway for a little while. we will be looking to raise shortly. ed: ynchron ceo don oxley. tesla plans to delay the unveiling of its robotaxi or robotaxi day until october. you will remember, caroline, it had been scheduled for august 8. but, what i am hearing from

sources is they want more prototypes. i'm hearing there is a bit of a re-think on the design and it has all happened in the last 24 hours or so. it's an interesting development and i don't know what to make of it. you see the stock moving down significantly. what does it tell you? caroline: everybody has started to look at august 8. this wasn't the fixation when we got the delivery numbers that overwhelmed. the excuse from the street was, everybody wants to think about what august 8 means. what is the longer-term vision of tesla. their share price run-up has been phenomenal. the last 10 days we added $40 billion in market capitalization and suddenly we selloff. what an amazing scoop you just bought us -- brought us. ed: i asked elon musk what's going on. we ask him to come on the program. etc.. the big picture is interesting. the original thesis was when you buy a vehicle from tesla it

comes with all of the hardware and software you need from self-driving. when you lease ends either tesla takes the vehicle back and puts it into a fleet. or the middle ground. you can opt in to put your ev from tesla into the fleet like you might put your home on air b&b. the third and duration outlined it to us at the agm was they also want to do a purpose built robotaxi. you have a combination of three on what is a proprietary app much like uber. the stock is now down 4%. i guess that investors are now saying, this is supposed to be at. we were going to learn the plan and now we may be waiting longer. carolina: it now we bring in max chapek and racing back to set. this was the fiction of so many. max: a lot of the long-term vision is robotaxi. max: absolutely. there were huge questions when elon musk said they would have this launch august 8.

will it be an affordable car you may want to buy? will it be a robotaxi? will it have a steering wheel? questions like that. i think investors were sort of just going with it. elon musk, as we have talked about on the show many times, has a very good track record and the reaction you see from the stock is a reaction to uncertainty. if it isn't just a few months delay, probably no big deal. but there are real, profound questions about robo taxis and how real this is near-term. and on top of that you have questions about tesla's ability to market cars. what does it mean for somebody that just wants to buy an affordable electric car? ed: a decline of 5.5% is putting tesla on track for its biggest drop since april 30. now down more than 6%. investors are looking at this. i want to talk with you about

the academic approach to self-driving. tesla has a vision based platform that does not use lidar or radar. but caroline and i were talking about the idea that initially, the idea was if you owned a test let the tesla would end up in a fleet like when you put your home on air b&b. to our surprise they go to a purpose built robotaxi. what do you make of that bit? i guess the delay. is it a lack of information about the strategy? max: i think there are probably a number of things going on here. we know from previous reporting there has been a lot of tension inside tesla over exactly how this should go. elon musk has personally made clear, the lead is in robotaxi. i think there are many people inside tesla that like this idea as is vision, but are more open to skeptical arguments. the thing that i have thought all along, that makes this a

somewhat unrealistic plan -- if you have other companies working very hard spending billions of dollars doing a lot of work to negotiate with various local partners and so on. they have not gotten far. my mom -- waymo does not have that many vehicles in that many locations and it will be hard for elon musk to switch that on. then you talk about a personal or robotaxi vehicle and it an additional complication. ed: he often does not get there on the timeline he sets out but gets there and at the end with the products. coming up we will be joined by pitch book cm's carl stanford to break down the company's latest report on the vc ecosystem. areas. that's next on bloomberg. that's next on bloomberg. hey folks, chris counahan here with leaffilter,

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terminal and apple, spotify and i heart it's bloomberg. caroline: a european startup is developing ai software for defense and just raised $487 million to expand its presence in european nations bordering russia. ed, what are you looking at? ed: all the things a bloomberg anchor is expected to look at. global inflation, interest rates, macro uncertainty. because they have all pulled down global vc dealmaking. in the u.s. at least it's not all doom and gloom with the deal activity increasing on account basis for each of the past three quarters. it's a positive sign deals are getting done. let's break it down with carl stanford at the vc analyst at fitchburg. data is so important even if it

is backwards looking. we get reporting each quarter about deals that are done and you see it in aggregate after-the-fact. the three macro points. why in the u.s. is there less pressure for -- from them? kyle: i don't think there is less pressure. when you dive deep into the data we are seeing companies coming back to the market that have not raised since 2021 or early 2022. the time they spend kicking the can down the road through financing or layoffs are coming back to the market to raise. there is a huge amount of dry powder in the u.s., at 295 billion dollars in dry powder that needs to be put to work. there are equity deals getting done, positive from an entry standpoint. but, many of the companies are just now coming back to market and inflating the number of companies raising at the moment. caroline: they white knuckled it and managed to get through.

how many have had to make an ai related play? kyle: we are saying about 22 percent of deals completed two ai companies whether they are true foundational models or vertical applications using openai to do some of their business model. 50% of deal value as well. i think everything is pointing towards ai. if you are in nlp you want to get into an ai fund. if you are an investor you want to get into nai company. if you are a company you want to somehow give nai business model. it's the talk of the market. u.s. vc deal by quarter backwards looking then q2. to extrapolate about what you see the rest of the year, kyle. kyle: of the $55.6 billion, about $15 billion is from two deals, core we've and ask ai. it is inflating the top line value.

where we see the rest of the are going will be driven by any large deals that happen and will continue to be relatively slow from the middle of the pack to the lower quality companies. right now we are seeing high quality companies getting deals done. look in the data. evaluations look really high compared to any year. what is happening is that the company said that race on high valuations in the past are coming and raising again now. if they are high quality it is boosting the valuation we are seeing. it's not necessarily market strength that it would portray from looking at the data. caroline: kyle stafford bring us the latest and greatest vc. we thank you. from pitch book. this is bloomberg technology.

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ed: president biden is steadily losing support from a part of the country that knows image and stagecraft to the , super agent ari emanuel, netflix three tasting and eris abigail disney called on biden to drop his reelection bid. george clooney is a lifelong democrat that helped raise $30 million for the president last month and said democrats can pray for america in november or

speak the truth. some in hollywood are turning against a media mogul katzenberg , one of the presidents top donors that they say has intentionally shielded biden's decline until now. caroline: the other candidate and at the presidential race is donald trump. he will speak at bitcoin 2024, a conference this month. the address will highlight his going embrace of the crypto industry. let's discuss with bloomberg's and diabetic. -- bloomberg's sonali basak. sonali: it's been a massive debate. you have had such serious pushback not only from the securities and exchange commission, but president biden himself when it comes to certain aspects here. the biden administration's approach to how legislation has

been crossing lines in congress. we are standing here at a moment when such little progress has been made on key stable coin bills. perhaps, a change in administration will start to dilute some of the stronger voiced that anti-crypto members of congress have had, sherrod brown, elizabeth warren. the idea that a more republican president and more republican lawmakers in congress overall will cause a dent in how the industry has been approached the last four years. ed: we have reporting that a yvette ramaswamy -- that of ramaswamy, musk, and donald trump, crypto is the common point. caroline: that is it for bloomberg technology. ed: we will be back from new york and san francisco. this is bloomberg technology.

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caroline: welcome to bloomberg markets. read on the equity screen with the s&p 500 retreating from a record high following the most since april even after a cool inflation report paved the way for the federal reserve to cut interest rates. let's check the market starting with the s&p 500 losing .9% marking the first pullback in almost two weeks. a pretty meaningful decline. we are seeing rotation out of big cap growth names like technology, communication services and consumer discretionary into rei utilities, industrials, and materials. the nasdaqt 100s,, a larger decline of 2%. all magnificent seven names are falling. in the