david tepper just has not done that. >> all right. peter king with nbc sports, football morning in america columnist, thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> one thing i know is no one wants to take over a football team and have to deal with this, so it will be interesting what his next move. >> a harvard business case study. >> thanks for watching "power lunch." >> "closing bell" starts right now. >> thanks. welcome to "closing bell." i'm scott wapner from post 9 at the new york stock exchange. a big question about stocks, how far with can the runway for the rally go? just to the end of the year as some are suggesting or can it go much further? we'll ask our experts this hour including pimco's erin browne who unveils her 2024 playbook in just moments and in the meantime the scorecard with 60 minutes to go in regulation looks like that and it's mixed and not as good as it was and the most active part of the day was just before lunch and that's when the fed's chris waller suggested if

inflation continues to fall that rates could be lower. it got a lot of people thinking about rate cuts because it sent stocks shooting higher at least for a bit and the yields fell and the ten-year touching below 3.5% and how about micron, a big mover today after the chipmaker updated its guidance. shares dropping on that news. they've been around that level for much of the day, around 3% to the down side. disney is lower, too. the ceo bob iger holding a town hall today after one year back on the job and boeing getting a boost today after a big upgrade there and that stock is still hanging on to the green. the market is looking forward to crowd strike and those earnings are later on, and we'll have that for you as we make the turn into the next hour and it does take us to the talk of the tape. a new bull market that is about to get us steam or the last push

that will soon run out of gas. >> let's ask liz young, sofi's head of strategy at post 9. >> thank you. >> is it time to get more bullish based on the momentum that we have and based on what chris waller said. the way liesman characterized it was that waller said the quiet part out loud and talking about cuts? >> well, i think what i heard from that is that we're comfortable with where policy is and there's reinforcement that they're done hiking and we're on a pause. this pause period, and i mentioned this before on the program this pause period between the last hike and the first cut, markets tend to hold up pretty well, so if the question is what will happen between now and december 31st, i think that there is room for stocks to continue going up, but i don't think it matters. december 31st occurs and suddenly we give it all up and it doesn't matter as long as the data will roll in and how consumer spending will come home

to roost in january and february. >> i feel like people are making it a calendar issue. >> the stock will go into 24 weeks and then it gets real and then we'll face a slowing economy and the data will be bad and all bets are off. is that how you see it, too? why does it have to be that way? >> it doesn't. we talk about the year-end period and january being seasonally strong and you have the possibility of the santa claus rally which is from december 24th through the first or so, the second of january, then things do usually shift, right? a new tax year begins. so you have people getting back into positions and you see sometimes a rally in the market. what i think is different about this year and how we're going to see it all coming in is that we've still got some big data points that are going to come in before the next fed meeting and we still have a next fed meeting and we will find out from them if they are, in fact, transitioning to the idea of

cuts at some point in 2024. they're not going to say that in december, but we could get a sense that maybe they're getting satisfied with the way that the data is -- >> i mean, haven't we gotten that sense? >> the market has. >> they seem to be suggesting it themselves, right? they keep using patient. waller goes on to say i'm increasingly confident that policy is currently well positioned to slow the economy and get the inflation back to 2%. that says we're done. the economy will slow enough. inflation will go back to 2% and you know what? we'll cut because we can now because we're forced to by a further weakening economy. >> and that's the bull case. the bull case is they can start cutting but they feel like it because things have gotten to a point where they're comfortable and they can bring rates down to a more normal level and that's the idea of a soft landing, at least the way i understand it, and that the economy slows. it cools and we all wanted this to happen and it doesn't tip

over into contraction and gives us concern. >> when do we benefit to say, you know what? that's not the bull case anymore, that's the base case. >> sure. >> when? >> you're asking someone who has been skeptical of the bull case this whole time. >> right. >> i have to ask myself, when do i change my mind? the momentum in the market is one thing. you can't argue with it. you can't fight the tape. the tape is the tape. momentum has surprised all of us, particularly the skeptics all year and it can continue because momentum is a very powerful force. when does the economic data or when does the cycle start to convince me that maybe we did skip past the graveyard and completely eliminate the possibility of a real contraction. we have to get inflation down further, and it has to be closer to the target and the fed isn't going to act satisfied until it gets closer to target. >> so do investors and people do

what you do to be satisfied that the trend -- you don't have to get to target, maybe. the market will place a vote well ahead of target once it's convinced the trend is headed to target. >> what paulo keeps saying is it doesn't necessarily have to hit 2%. we have to be on the sustainable path and we need to hear that they're comfortable with it and that employment has to stay stable. i'm not convinced that that is going to happen. unemployment as it's risen, so far it's been a pretty slow rise, but a lot of times it slowly turns up and then it takes off and the slope of the line changes and it goes up in a jiffy. >> what about in a broadening market which we've had of late? you know, in some respects i feel like it's getting harder to throw darts at the market because things that the bears have been suggesting seem to be falling away. like one by one, right?

inflation's going to be sticky and it's starting to come down and the housing component. rates will be higher for longer and we're for 33 now on the ten year. earnings are going to fall apart. i don't know. the economy seems to be hanging in and black friday suggests that the consumer is, too. >> yeah. well, let's start at the end of that. black friday sales were up, but inflation is up and revenue is up. people have to spend more if everything costs more. so the dollar amount of spending is less meaningful, in my opinion, this year. also you had consumer spending a lot on black friday and you had this promoting going on which means companies are trying to unload their inventory and not to mention we have a record amount of consumers buying on credit, right? or buy now, pay later. that's the kind stuff i mentioned at the top of the show that comes home to roost in january and february.

it could seem like consumers are out there spending their money and that they're excited and confident and then these retailers have spent the better part of the last year right sizing their inventory and almost to a retailer they're talking about not discounting as much to where margins would actually hold up and spending would hold up. you can point to bldelinquencie ticking up, and i get you there, but at some point we'll get to a scenario in which we have to wrap our arms around the idea that they have to pull this off. they being the fed. >> oh, sure. it's possible. in my opinion it's not probable. if you try to play the odds. as an investor we don't know what's going to happen for certain in any scenario, but if you play the odds and we went through the fastest and steepest cycle in more than 40 years. it's more likely that you see a contraction after that, right

around where cuts start than it is that we just kind of get through it all unscathed. >> i know, but we also went through the fastest economic stimulus plan between what the government and the fed did during covid and then the piling on on top of that and what we did after covid and history, as well. that's why i suggested in the past that maybe the mattress is so thick. >> you're not going to have that big fall. you bang your head. >> yeah. you are actually cushioned in the drop from the steep hike in interest rates and 525 basis points in 18 months. >> i think that's why its taken so long and i don't want to be another person who comes out who says i was early and not wrong. in 2023, if you were skeptical of the rally you were wrong and i would be guilty as charged in that scenario, but i think that's why it's been more prolonged because there's more cash than we expected to be there because there was more stimulus that went into it and

some of that is coming out and we had a pretty weak, seven-year auction and we have the debt load because of the stimulus and the interest expense going up and we had to continue to issue debt, and it just builds and builds and builds and a lot of us are getting to the . point. can we manage to control the economy or tip it over? >> all fair points. let's bring back erin browne of pimco. what do you make of what liz has to say and how you assess the market? >> i see the world a little differently than liz. i think if you thread the needle through the economy it's holding up okay. yes, you've seen significant central bank hike, but at the same time when you look at financial conditions they've eased pretty significantly since, you know, the third quarter and they're really back at the lowest levels that we've seen year to date absent a flip over the summer, and so you're

starting to see financial conditions ease. yes, the unemployment rate has risen, but it's risen on the back of an expanding labor force and so when you look at the employment to population ratio it's actually done very well, and so all of this, i think, is really supporting a stronger consumer. on the margin, there are crack, and i do think you will see dislocations in certain segments of the economy, but i think what's really distinct about what we're seeing now versus prior slowdowns and recessions is that you're seeing these mini cycles and they're correction cycles which are affecting one part of the economy and the rest and the whole of the economy is holding up well and that will be the story continuing into 2024 and you will see dislocations in certain parts of the market which will materially underperform. >> what does just fine mean in

terms of the kind of return that somebody can expect in the new year. >> sure. you're not going to see the same, explosive growth that we saw in the third quarter where it was 5% on the annualized basis. you're probably seeing something into the mid 2% range next year which is about trend, maybe slightly below trend, but still in positive territory and that, you know, creates an environment where gdp growth can be sort of high, single digits. so i think that the returns next year will be lower than what we experienced this year for the aggregate s&p 500, but still in positive territory. >> what if the fed cuts? what's that going to mean, right? we always have this don't fight the fed. well, it hurts you on the way up when they're hiking. doesn't it help you on the way down when they're cutting? >> sure. so i think that the market right now is a little over excited about the potential for fed cuts. the market right now is pricing in three cuts by the end of next year and a continuation of those

cuts at an accelerated pace as we move into 2025 and they're really expecting that the market will start cutting in june and do one thereafter through the end of the year and i think just given the fact that we're not expecting a significant recession and you're not expecting a significant slowdown. there is a dislocation right now between what the fixed income market's pricing in which is three rate cuts next year and what the equities are pricing in which is 15% year on year earnings growth and those two don't really align. so i think the fed is likely to be disappoint with respect to rate cut and they be gradual just because inflation might be low and they're not like lowly

to have that. . so if returns are going to be okay and they're not going to be negative and we'll be okay, just fine, those are your words. what's the composition of that going to look like? is it going to be like it was this year where it's still the top heavy name because of concerns that persist about the economy and growth? if you expect on one hand that growth is going to be slower from the gdp standpoint then aren't i going to stay with those names that i've danced with to this point? >> i think that's true. i mean, i do think that the large caps will largely outperform and they'll have access to better market liquidity and better free cash flow generation and the small caps and ones that are really leveraged to the lower income consumer or really have high balance sheet leverage will

continue to underperform and just given the fact that rates are still quite high and borrowing costs are still quite prohibitive for those companies, but i do think that you'll start to see certain pockets of the market and the tech sector will continue to be the leader next year. homebuilders, consumer autos will start to roll over and homebuilders in particular have been a star performer this year and i do think it will become increasingly difficult and largely speaking, you kind of want to stick with the winners of this year. january is also a reversal month. i wouldn't get scared, but beyond january i would stick with your winners because i think that those companies that are up in quality, that are able to generate free cash flow are likely the ones that will be winners, as well. >> the old proverb, dance with who brung you. that's essentially what erin is

suggesting. does that competition of the market look like that as well to you? >> if i had to make bull case right now, no. i would want there to be more participation from other parts of the market, and if we're going to try to be consistent through -- all right, cuts are going to start and cuts will start to because they can and want to normalize. that would indicate we went from late cycle without a recession which, again, i would say possible and not probable, but if we're trancingisitioning fro cyclicals and the industrials, energy financials and i would expect those to start to come up and we talked about this all year and will the bottom line of the rest of the market come up to meet those magnificent seven. >> do you think that's going to happen? >> if it were a bull case and we come to psyche will behavior, those would come up top meet the top ones and that's not my base

case right now. >> erin, what about you? this idea that the lagging places in the market and maybe the biggest question mark of all are the small caps at this particular time. how do you feel about those? >> so i don't think that we're going to be in an early cycle environment next year. if we were, i agree that early cycle environments and small caps tend to be the ones that outperform, but i actually think that this is going to be almost an elongated late cycle environment next year where we're not tipping over to recession and staying in a low growth environment and in that environment you really want to own quality. you don't want to own the junkier credits. to me it will continue to be the environment which small caps which have less liquidity and often times less access to credit and they're going to continue to be constrained and continue to underperform. >> the other idea, liz is that if the labor market doesn't roll

over, maybe we're not as late cycle as someone is to believe we are because if the labor market holds up, then theoretically consumer spending will hold up. the economy at large for a two-thirds discretionary spending economy is going hold up and maybe we're not as late cycle as someone wants to believe. >> in which case, there will be elongated, late cycle and the other thing is the labor market. >> unless we start -- and we're just not nearly as late cycle as they are to believe we are. >> and the unemployment rate is so low and a frictional or regular unemployment rate in the economy is 4%, 4.5%. i think we're just so used to it being so low that it's uncomfortable if it rises above four. it's not necessarily indicating

that it's a recession and we have wiggle room. >> last point to you, the other idea being that you definitely want to stay in the u.s. versus other areas of the world in europe included? >> that's absolutely right. europe is having challenges and the european growth is slipping and look at the data that's coming out of germany is an example. i think that will be a much more challenged market for positive equity returns and so the u.s. which typically screens up in quality anyway is definitely where you want to invest. i would -- europe has done well the last couple of years. i think next year will be the u.s u.s.' chance to outperform and shine. >> i'll see you on the desk soon. liz young. let's get a check on top stocks to watch. kate rooney joining us. >> watch the buy now, pay later case as installment payments hit an all-time high between black friday and cyber monday as consumers look for more flexible

ways to pay and try to avoid some of the higher rates with traditional credit cards and jefferies upgraded a firm and increased the price target was a result of that demand and some of the improved credit performance and square and paypal have competing buy now and pay later offerings and they're both higher today, as well. crocs is moving higher as raymond james upgrades it to the favorites list and analysts say they're more confident in the business structure heading into 2024 and they think the stocks price-to-earnings ratio is now discounted given the revenue growth expectation and it's hiking its price target to 115 from 98. scott, back over to you. >> we'll see you in just a bit and we'll see you next on "the closing bell" roger altman breaks down what he thinks mr. powell's next move would be and what it means for potential recession and for the markets, too. >> we're live from the new york stock exchange. you're watching "the closing bell" on cnbc.

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well into 2024, if i had to guess it would be mid-2024, and it depends on the flow of data between now and then and between how much progress and lack of it we see on inflation, but i don't think anybody expects that in this upcoming december meeting that the fed will move. it will be steady as she goes unless there's some shock in the interim which no one expects. >> so if you say cuts maybe mid-'24. you know how the markets work and they try to get ahead of that by a significant amount of time whether it is six to nine months. should i buy stocks now? does this -- does this momentum have legs beyond the end of the year because of that? >> i think the giant question over the market, scott, is not the fed because it's so likely that the fed will rest on its laurels for the time being and then in a few months begin to ease. i think the giant question is

whether the shifting narratives in financial markets four months ago looks like a recession now, and looks like a soft landing and no recession. which of them is right? i listen to your previous guests and it was a very interesting discussion. my own two cents is, it's too soon to declare victory over recession risk. i think the odds favor that we avoid it. we do have a soft landing and i don't think it's short. you can see some weakening in data and credit delinquencies and the excess pandemic savings among the lower half of the income cohort has gone and that's depleted, and you see comments, for example, recently from walmart suggesting that they're beginning to soften and i would remind everybody that the u.s. economy grew 4.9% in the last quarter and it grew

almost exactly at that rate in the third quarter of 2007 and corporate earnings have been tracking at about 5% up year over year based on the latest reports and that's about exactly what it was in early 2008. now, we're not going to have a repeat of the great financial crisis, please, don't get me wrong. at the same time, i don't think it's time to pop the champagne on soft landing. a little too soon to know. there was a stretch of -- i don't know, it felt like a couple of weaks, roger where every day, it felt like, we talked about the deficit and the rates would be higher for longer and the funding of it, et cetera, et cetera and the funding were harder to look at as you move out years ahead. i don't feel like we're hearing about that much these days. how are you thinking about that issue? >> well, yes, the recent

resilience of the economy has been remarkable. a few months ago, half of the forecasts out there envisioned a negative fourth quarter than the one we just began and we're in right now and now everyone sees the economy growing around 2% this quarter. so the resilience is a big story and it's amazing, but again, it's too good to be sure in the 40 years will sail right through without any serious softening and too early to say that these many months of an inverted yield curve which historically has been an unending signal or recession won't mean that this time. it doesn't always mean you're going to have a recession, but

you never have a recession without it? >> well, most of the time that you had an inverted yield curve for this long you've had a recession. it may not be 100%, but it's much more likely than not or common than not. scott, i'm not suggesting that we're going to see a recession. i'm just saying that it's amazing how the narrative has been completely reversed and all of the concerns of four months ago now seem to be gone because the interim data on growth, especially growth and corporate earnings and on inflation has been reassuring and it has, but do i think it's been 100% likely that we'll see growth. no. i think there's a 25% chance that we've seen a negative quarter. far from trivial. >> i wouldn't ask anyone to

predict 100% of anything. that's a big leap, but you look at money flows and they can be predictors of where people think they're going to go in the sea in wh seat in which you seat and your colleagues at evercorp. what about the deal making? are you getting the sense that that thaw has softened even further? it's hard to know, we're at a moment when activity levels are definitely up, but actual, completed transactions are not. so we looked at this this morning internally and global m & a volume over the last 12 months earn in you ared in dollars as a percentage of total market capitalizations is at the lowest level in 40 years. that's probably a little exaggerated because markets have

been up strongly recently, but in any event, it's low. so there's the seeds right there of recovery, but it's really hard to know when you're going to see that in the actual flow of completed transactions because it hasn't happened yet. everybody in the business will tell you and they're right that they're busier and whether it's engagement letters or whether it's backlogged, activity levels are up, it remains to be seen exactly when that shows up in the actual level of completed transactions and announcements. >> well, we're going to count on you to let us know. i can tell you that. it's always a pleasure. >> my pleasure, scott, thank you. >> that's roger altman joining us from evercore. groundswell co-founder and ceo jake wood is here and he's made giving back a key part of his life and we'll join us here

on post 9 with how he's making strides to democratize corporate philanthropy. "closing bell" will be right back.

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tuesday, a perfect occasion to introduce our next guest, someone who has made giving a central part of his life. jake wood spent four years in the marine corps as an elite sniper and he recruits for disaster relief all around the world and co-founder and ceo of groundswell, a venture-backed company for philanthropy and he's here on post 9. >> thanks for having me, scott. >> for people who don't know you and your background any more than i read a couple of things out of your life's resume, where does this thirst for giving back

comes from for you? >> that's a great question. i dwrgrew up in the midwest whe giving back is just a part of the spirit of the community. i've been able to go around the world and seen a lot of interesting places and i think i can reflect back on my life and see how fortunate i was to go to great public schools and have an amazing family. >> played football. >> went to play football for the badgers. >> enlisted in the military as part of your life story, as well and then team rubicon. >> yeah. >> which still you're active in today and remains an incredible organization. how many people do you have working for you, what are they doing around the world? >> i'm still fortunate to be a chairman of the board and both in the united states and canada doing disaster response and humanitarian relief missions around the world in all 50 states and canadian territories here in the u.s. >> explain to us how this works.

you know that say a hurricane will hit some part of the world where you can get to reasonably quickly. >> as an example. what happens next? team rubicon has these men and women that say i want to the continue to serve my country and we'll move them with the disaster zone with the equipment and necessary training and we work in coordination with the state and federal authorities and we get to work helping people on their worst day to get back on their feet following the storms. >> majority of the people who work for team rubicon are veterans or the entirety? >> not the entirety. 70% are military veterans. many of them first responder and some of them have never worn a uniform in their life. >> groundswell is a very interesting idea that i'm not sure a lot of people have heard about. explain to us what that is. >> groundswell is a software company i started in 2021 with a couple of colleagues and it was

to corporatize corporate philanthropy by building the first of its kind donor-advised platform that allows companies to roll out the personal giving accounts to employees and then automate donation programs and fortune 500 companies offer to match employee donations and we saw an opportunity to expand that type of benefit to the employes. >> comcast, our parent company does that, to your point as well as a number of others. can you say it's like a 401(k) sort of thing where you get the corporate match. say if if i want to devote a certain amount of my pay or whatever to whichever fill apth roppic organization that i've decided to, you'll enlist companies that will match that on the other side? >> that's really an interesting analogy because just like a 401(k) what we offer these employees through the platform is a donor-advised fund which is a tax advantage charitable account and high-level networks,

and building the world's most mo modern fund. >> how have the companies grown? what sort of -- >> we're seeing tremendous success both at the small business all of the way through the enterprise. you know? we've got a great company out of wisconsin with the llp, top 15, top ten, accounting tax advisory firm and they've had 62% of their employees on the program and collectively, they've given away half a million in the first five months. >> we say it's venture backed. >> we have some is s amazing investors. >> what does it mean for the groundswell. >> people who are thinking at some stages about some kind of exit or return on their initial investment. how are you thinking about that? >> absolutely. we think the philanthropy sector

has been vastly underserved over the last 20 years and we see an opportunity to build a unicorn in that space, building world-class technology, purpose built for charitable giving and for the non-profits that they're supporting. >> you must have a good front-row seat in terms of giving itself and whether that's a reflection on the current state of the economy or not. what do you see in that regard? i'm thinking about things like inflation impacting people's ability to give and paying more for everything takes a bite out of what you would otherwise may want to give someone else. >> the last 18 months have been hard in the charitable sector. in 2022 we saw a decline in individual giving for the third time in the last 40 years and adjusted for inflation and individual giving declined 13% last year and i think we're on trend to see that in 2023. we just had a blockbuster black friday. cyber monday crushed it and today is giving tuesday. we're hopeful that individuals

and families across the country will rise and support the non-profits in the community. >> we are so proud of the work you do, i've told you that both privately and i'm glad to have you back here. just keep up the great work. >> jake wood joining us here on post 9. >> up next, we're tracking the biggest movers and kate roony is back with us with that. >> we're taking a look at a chinese holding company that's up double digits today and an activist investor is building a $50 million stake in the company and we'll te yllou who we're talking about and that's next up after a quick break. ♪ ♪

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we're about 15 from the bell. let's get back to kate rooney for a look at the stocks she's

watching. kate? >> let's start with pdd holdings after the e-commerce giant handily beat expect eggs on earnings and revenue. the parent of chinese shopping sites like pin duo duo saw its revenues double and those shares are up 18%. twilio also getting a boost as the activist investor anson funds. it is pushing the cloud giant to sell tuesday or divest its data. scott, back over to you. >> appreciate that very much. amazon's aws cloud unit announcing big changes at its annual conference including the ai push and you want those details and we'll give you a rundown of all those highlights just ahead.

>> coming up next, we're drilling down on disney today. that stock is up nearly 7% this year. ceo bob iger holding a town hall this afternoon marking one year since his return to that company. we'll bring you all of the big takeaways and what it could an r e digiant coming up when we take you inside the market zone.

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mike san tolly is here to break down the crucial moments of the trading day, plus julia boorstin delivers the headlines for the town hall and the amazon web services conference and we begin with mike. what's your takeaway from this day as november inches to a close? >> it doesn't get much steadier than this and it's one of the more painless ways you can take care of the market that's running a little bit hot. we got to this level monday and flat on the week and yields are much more benign, and i think everyone would have looked at a 10% gain and would have said we can back off 3% or 4% and all to the good. the basically the market managing to hang on to the gains and i'm completely sympathetic that we need something else and some further reassurance and we're waiting for pce and powell later this week to give more clarity, but in general, the credit is not giving you a

reason to worry and we're through earnings season and volatility is to the degree where people are starting to complain about it. >> what do you think about what waller had to say and i love the way that steve liesman said it. he said the quiet part out loud. >> just acknowledging has been the undertone, if you will, of this market now. >> they have not been trying to get the notion of further tightening on the market's agenda in any active way and this is much more explicit. if you go back to the september official outlook for next year, they said most likely they would be cutting rates next year even without getting to inflation to target. so that's not novel and we're pretty restrictive right now. i keep going through the 1995 script which hinted and the last move might be a cut and they didn't have to slash things and a very different environment and they didn't have to go chasing

inflation that time and they preemptively took care of it and that's the ideal scenario that hovers out there. >> so we'll keep talking about 95. i'll be back to you in a moment. julia boorstin with the headlines and what's bob iger saying? >> disney shares are moving lower during bob iger's moment as he has disney's linear assets and he said no decisions have been made. disney shares are now down over 2.5% and iger saying, quote, i feel like we just emerged from a period of picking to one of building again and i can tell you that building is a lot more fun for fixing. he and anchor david muir were joined on stage by alan bergman along with the espn head and josh damaro. they did start off the joint conversation with espn discussing potential strategic partnerships including leagues or tech companies though iger

made it clear that they could go it alone when it comes to espn. iger and alex bergman talked about improving disney studios which are under scrutiny after several disappointments. iger was not asked about his battle with nelson peltz although i'm sure it will come up in future board meetings. >> you would think it would. thank you, julia boorstin. no amazon today, and we have a feeling of their own co-pilot. >> despite that we're seeing shares down half a percent and here are the announcements we're looking at and ai has a new chip called trainium2 and it will help wean off nvidia, very similar from what we heard from microsoft a couple of weeks ago at its cloud, vent and we are also going to use nvidia and amd

and look, you're starting to see these tech companies and ai leaders go on their own and separate themselves from nvidia as best they can. in addition to that, like you said, a new ai assistant and that's the letter q. this is mostly for developers and information technology professionals and it will cost 20 bucks a month or $21 a month with new features to what microsoft is selling co-pilot for that has more features and more consumer facing, rather, for 30 bucks per user, per month and also going to compete with chatgpt enterprise and microsoft's bing chat enterprise and the holiday shopping season. amazon boasting recordbreaking sales over the long holiday shopping weekend. we get these announcements from amazon and no real numbers in there and we'll have to wait for their earnings report next year to see how the holiday actually turned out for amazon, but adobe analytics saying cyber monday

sales yesterday $12.4 billion, and amazon shares down half a percent. >> a bit of a feel that anything you can do i can do just as good when it comes to the mega-caps chasing each other about ai, right? >> that's exactly where we are right now and interesting to see there's not as much of a shine on these amazon announcements and usually, for example when microsoft announced co-pilot pricing, for example and availability. we saw shares move up on that, rather and not seeing the same thing with amazon and i would be curious to see next hour and be sure we turn into overtime because we have a first on cnbc interview with adam selipsky, and he'll answer those with our jon fortt. >> that's steve kovac. you want to turn back here? this is where the action is with good reason. >> and nothing will be quite as clear to the street as microsoft's 30 bucks per seat or

whatever they're going to charge. that would make the math too easy. we're in the game and amazon recently regained the 1.5 trillion cap level and amd for as big and great as it is with the 200 market cap and it shows you the tiering effect that we've got with nvidia and the other faang giants and all of the rest. >> i'm thinking of micron as you were saying market cap. talking about market cap shrinking today and i mentioned at the outset of the show today and it's not all rosy and chip length. >> micron is used to the bucking bronco of the supply demand there and it does show you for as much as the company has tried to over the years get away from the commodity trap and the value and get into next year and it's just tough and obviously, they have to move fast and develop

even when the demand isn't there. >> markets will go out green and another reminder of the aws interview in overtime and i'll send it there. right now the bell rings and jon fortt take it away. [ closing bell ringing ] that's the scorecard on wall street. we have moves in the major indices and we have big moves because winners stay late. i'm jon fortt. morgan brennan is off. it's a big day for those with their heads in the cloud. in just a moment we'll talk to the ceo of adam web services adam selipsky, the first on cnbc interview from the sidelines of amazon's biggest developer conference of the year in las vegas. plus the ceo of cloud security