recognize them when they come and not make too minor a trip when anything becomes available. those are the simple lessons. ♪ good morning. welcome to "street signs." i'm joumanna bercetche with julianna tatelbaum in london. steve sedgwick joins us from the cop28 summit in dubai. these are our headlines. the u.n. secretary-general hitting out on the net zero he charter saying it falls short. the ex-ceo tells me that companies and governments are united on the importance of

cutting emissions. >> what we are focused on is emissions. the challenge is eliminating emissions. how we do that is a function of where technology goes and the circumstances are and where the emissions are emitted. >> john kerry pushes back on cop28 president's claims that there is no science behind calls to phase out fossil fuels and government must stick to the paris agreement. >> you must keep 1.5% as the north star. everything should be geared to make the statement does this advance or take us in the wrong direction? and investors go overweight on roche with the $2.7 billion takeover of the pharmaceuticals. we will hear from teresa graham

this morning. and twice as gold. the talk of fed cuts is premature and raising the bet on the cuts as soon as march. warm welcome to "street signs." let's kickoff the coverage of the cop28. the u.n.'s guterres says clearly we fall short of what's required in limiting dplglobal temperatu rises. the information together with the leading 50 oil and gas companies tackle the fossil fuels and it does not offer a clear pathway to net zero. the so-called oil and gas

charter will see oil producers commit to ending flaring by 2030 and achieve net zero operations by 2050. let's get to steve sedgwick in dubai. steve, talk us through the conversations and whether the pledges fall short of what's needed. >> reporter: it depends on your perspective. if you think the oil and gas pledge shouldn't be here or not offering enough to the phase out unabated or abated goes far enough? having that conversation here is imperative. i have been to a couple of summits in paris and glasgow and having the likes of the exxon ceo here is a huge jump forward. the biggest energy players on the planet. you are cutting out a large part of industry. exclusive tv industry here at

c cop. i asked about the communication and the phase out of abated fossil fuels is the wrong approach. >> what we focused on is emissions. the challenge is eliminating emissions and how we do that will be a function of where the technology goes and what the circumstances are and where the emissions are emitted. i don't think there is a one-sized fits all. what slows us down is the focus on the step change and getting out of our existing energy system and starting something brand new. that is a long, costly process that is expensive. instead, what we should look at is how we get to where we are today to a future with lower emissions and that involves wind, solar and evs. there are options to increase the existing fuel pool.

we can make a lower reduction in carbon and swap out the entire vehicle fleet. focus on the emissions and keep your mind open to variety of solutions and the work that everybody is putting into this is focuses on the reductions. >> you have the deals with lithium. you mentioned solar and wind as well. do you think the iec has the expertise to be in wind and solar or not in the spaces? >> we are not in wind or solar. we are not looking to get in wind or solar. i refer to the wind solar in evs and the bio-fuels and hydrogen. that is where we have the expertise. that is needed. if you look at any independent third party out there, they say you need all those to get to where we need to with net zero.

we can contribute in that space. it relies on the same core capa capabilities. it gives us credit amount of flexibility to adjust resourcing as that market demand grows. that's where we know we can contribute. >> reporter: that was darren woods with our exclusive i promised viewers another interview at the end of the show. they departmidn't get it. that is good for "street signs." steven joins me now. you have been speaking to cop. tell us what you said to cop28. >> i said first of all we need to collaborate and collaborate and collaborate in that particular order. we he need to collaborate with customers. we transition by way of the iea. international energy association.

we ex-clclude if the companies there is no need for energy such as coal or industrials. the second collaboration is with other banks and scientists who set standards. if we have the industry standards, we need to translate to bank standards. otherwise, we don't have the good confversations with the financial players with those clients. the third thing is collaboration with the governments because in the end, we want them to set clear standards to provide support in terms of pricing. those were the three cs. >> let's start off on the last point. governments ss setting standards well. when i talk to officials, they say they are working on it. what would help you and your sector direct the right capital

to the right place? >> two examples. first of all, mortgages. there are different labels in different countries. there are no labels in some countries and when we have the same labels, they don't mean the same thing. we need those labels as a measurement. we need a standard of what labels do you want for your country or region for the next five years. where do you want to go and obviously, depending on what you choose, it has an impact on people. who will pay the bill? we need to talk about that. that is one example. the other example is the steel sector. if you produce steel and we all need steel in refrigerators and cars and electrical cars and w windmills. if we need steel, we need it in a more sustainable way. moving from coal to gas is sustainable. if you are the first company to

produce steel, do you it at an attractive previous and the price is set by the market. the eu, u.s. and middle east and asia needs to realize a sunset date for not using coal. >> they will be up against jurisdictions in the world like china which will set the price on the international market. it is doing it for the domestic markets. on the global markets, they are at disadvantage unless they buy from the chinese. >> that is why we say set standards on the international basis. if we take the eu and say this is the sunset date for coal and energy and steel plants, that means interest is no import and no local production. you can get to it and it means working together. >> unless the chinese buy in, we set another angle on trade wars

which we may have on evs going forward. what about a form of carbon market? would it make it easier? i heard a lot of talk about it coming into compp. are you hearing anything good about article 6.4? >> there are a lot of people talking about it. in india, if you don't, for example, look at the cement sector and you need to make cement with electrical kilns, you need energy. if you don't do that, you need price risk with the two years or subsidies. that price market can work well for different sectors. >> you mentioned, steven, sunset clauses and seeing industries phasing down exposure. you mentioned new oil and gas fields as well. i have seen no indication from the oil and gas sector and i have seen them all here pretty much. there is one major ceo here and

he is not coming. he is one of the american companies. apart from that, they're all here. i think they are committed to oil and gas. does that mean the man you know from shell or the other big oil majors and if they commit to oil and gasses, you are not giving them financing? financing other parts that won't be detrimental to other parts of the operation? >> it wouldn't. >> could you send a stronger message by saying that if you do that, we won't finance you at all? >> the world still needs a certain amount of energy. there is not new renewable energy right now. if you want to make the transition sustainable together with affordability and availability. >> what if that sector -- every time i say this, we are moving

at scale. would you sponsor new projects? >> not for new oil and gas fields. >> this is not in isolation. that is something we have been trying to talk about with the investment community. what is stopping a large amount of investment getting to the right place globally from europe to the developing world? what is the barrier? what is the log jam? it is very clear. there is a lot of money out there that wants to be deployed. it is not finding its way to emerging markets. how do we do that? >> it starts with global sun setting. the sun setting makes clear who needs to do what and it could be the developed world needs to do more. we need to make it clear to each other and also that means we need to price it in the right way and collaboration. >> there are a number of things

to know as well. are we having a recession in europe p and parts of europe? >> based on the latest stats, europe for 2024 looks like 1% growth. horses for horses in that sense with different markets with different growth rates. germany will be on the lower end. >> i'm glad you made it. i know it is a war here fighting us. steven, thank you. the ceo of ing. there you go. prize from "street signs." >> steve, how did you know what i wanted you to ask? i enjoyed your coverage. we'll have more later in the show. now we will take a quick break and when we come back, we are talking about my favorite

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welcome back to "street signs." the tape is thick and fast from cop28. steve has been busy as well as dan over the weekend. the discussions around the potential rate cuts next year. jay powell talked about rate cuts which hasn't stopped the market from pricing it out from 2024. that means expectations are getting higher and higher and we are seeing big moves in equities and fixed income. this morning, we had a mixed hand over from aircsia. stoxx 600 had a four-month high on friday. dax is trading at the flat line. we did have a weaker export number for germany. that was the increase of 1.1%. we are beginning to see more weakness in the trade data from

germany with the manufacturing. cac 40 is down .30%. the ftse 100 is down continue stocks come under pressure. we have retail at the top of the board. we have decent black friday and cyber monday sales coming through. we have to see how it pans out this week and the run-up to christmas. real estate is having a good session up .40% with the rates rallying. we have minors with the gains from last week. down 2 %. oil and gas down 1%. the spot complex is under pressure despite the opec plus cuts we spoke about last week. getting back to the story i teased before the break, roche is set to acquire carmot they're

p therapeutics. it has the best in class potential for obesity and diabetes drugs. joumanna, this is interesting news. this is the space we talked about for the last year. now it has roche trying to get involved. astrazeneca dipped its toes into the market with a similar deal with the chinese drugmaker. now you have roche, which has been struggling. >> from what i understand, they still have to release stage two and stage three trials. if they are successful, the gains could be astronomical as we have seen with the other ones. there are a lot of hurdles they need to get through and pfizer

is a good example of that. they trialed a pill and had to call it off because it wasn't successful. the barrier is high. >> the pfizer ordeal that came to light a couple of weeks ago is important. roche is acquiring two injectables and one oral version. the jury is still out if the oral version is possible and if this is one of the winners. it is a market dominated by nor vnoro and eli. we will hear from roche's teresa graham at 11:45 cet. he we will put the questions to her. back to the markets, you have the german ten-year bund trading lower this morning at

2.36 is the level. otherwise, yields are higher. the ten-year gilt is 4.16%. you have the u.s. yield curve is a mixed picture. higher at the front end and yee yields at the 30-year level is hire. and gold is rising to an all-time high as investors are pricing in the bets for the rate cuts next year. you can see there on the screen the gold suppois up 14% for the yea. bitcoin is up against the possible rate cut momentum. crypto stocks are moving higher

on the bitcoin price action. let's talk about fed expectations. jay powell said talk of reducing interest rates is premature amid optimism in the market for aggressive cuts. speaking in atlanta, powell warned they are set to tighten further. there is an expectation of five cuts next year. the head of international rates of vanguard is joining us around the desk. let's pick up on jay powell's comments on friday. he says it is not the right time to talk about rate cuts. the market is not listening. there is a lot priced in next year. i wonder two things. i wonder how much would be priced in if he said it was the right time to talk about rate cuts. the second thing is will the markets force the fed's hand? will have have to match up to the high expectation?

>> both are interesting questions. thank you for having me here. starting with what markets are pricing in, it is interesting to see what is in bonds for november. that is on the back of soft landing talk. that means both bonds are pricing lower level yields going forward and stocks are taking a tailwind on that. on the front, we think with bonds on that performance, we would be looking at not playing for higher yields from here. the economy has seen signs of weakening. we have seen the consumer slowing down and the manufacturing numbers last week have been on the weaker side. all together, it feels the fed is data dependent. perhaps, there is still a chance of another hike, but if the economy slows down, we could see more cuts coming later next year. >> why do people only talk about

issuance when numbers the right with the debt sustainability? why are people not concerned about higher issuance? there is a lot to get through for 2024. >> absolutely. going back six months, we have seen increased information from the fed being the kicker for the continue raise in yields. >> u.s. treasury? >> yes. apologize. it is slightly below market expectation. the market fell in support and has found a better level for treasuries. when you continue to see the treasury and the fed both paying attention to the market, from the financial conditions side and fed side, both the treasury issuance from the treasury, it does show we are in the position do have a very he balanced market. >> last week, we had blockbuster inflation data surprising to the

down side for the eurozone. it seems the debate with the ecb could actually hike before the fed has come to the floor, i'm not sure that too many analysts believe that's possible. do you have a take if the ecb could go first? >> one thing to learn this year is that inflation is hard to predict. if anything, it misses on both sides and it increases in the cycle. that said, the ecb still has a bit of a bigger test with the inflation expectations driven by wages and the wages in europe are still going on the upward path. inflation in europe should be higher than we have seen before. although the ecb could cut the economic conditions worse a bit, they still have bigger support for inflation going forward. >> that makes sense. let me ask you about corporates. yields have come down the last couple months and conditions are easier, financial conditions.

do you think we will see corporates move to take advantage of the lower rates and are we already seeing that? >> we are waiting for announcements this week. january is the month we see corporates come back into the market and trying to make the issuance in significant size. with the lower level fields we have seen t , it could be earli issuance. we expect this week and next to be the focal point as markets slow down for the hole iday season. >> let me pick up. t two-year treasury yields dropped. when rates rally, they rally fast. is this momentum going to continue or is this some natural support level? >> i think we are in the support level right now. i think we have seen goldilocks on steroids in the last months.

we have priced a soft landing to perfection. for us to continue to price lower yields from here, the economic yields need to worsen and we need to go and come back and talk about hard landing. >> when you look across the fixed income space, where do you see the returns for the six-month view? >> i think corporates tend to be in the spot especially in the west with the net interest margin going lower because of the cash on the balance sheet. we see supports spread into next year. >> okay. just to round things up then, let me ask you about the uk market. we talked about europe and the u.s. one other potential swing factor in the uk market is the election next year. when do you start pricing in the premium in the uk gilt market?

>> we have seen all of the fiscal headroom has been spent through tax cuts and other measures and enactment of the cuts are brought forward from april to january. we start seeing the fiscal picture if n the uk is tenuous. if you get any other announcements with fiscal policy in the uk, markets will price more and more risk premium. especially with the election next year. >> ales, thank you for joining us. excellent to hear your views. let's head to steve to see what is coming up next. steve. julianna, i have given you one christmas present today, but i feel joumanna needs one. she loves talking central banks. i'll find out what the role of the central banks is in the

energy trans ition. should they stick to monetary policy and stability? we will speak to frank elderson trt osqutis ene esonwh "seesigns" returns.

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welcome back to "street signs." i'm julianna tatelbaum with joumanna bercetche in london and steve sedgwick is live at the cop28 in dubai. these are the headlines. the u.n. secretary-general hitting out the net zero charter saying it falls short. the exxon ceo darren woods says companies are united on cutting emissions. >> what the society is focused on is cutting emissions. the challenge is eliminating emi emissions. how we do that is the function of technology and where it goes and the circumstances and the emissions emitted. u.s. private envoy john

kerry tells us as cop28 says it has become so entrenched, no political figure can derail it as the u.s. goes into the election nyear. >> i believe it is so decided and fixed that no political leader of any ilk in the world could stop this transition. investors go overweight on roche as the swiss pharma company bets on the drugmaker carmot. we will hear from teresa graham at 11:45 cet. and good as gold as talk of fed cuts is fpremature accordin to jay powell with the markets

looking to a cut as soon as march. u.s. special envoy john kerry says the countries must fight to keep the 1.5-degree marker. he made the comments last month as he argued there was no science behind calls to phase out fossil fuels, but kerry says the science is clear. >> the g7 countries voted there should be a phasing out of unmitigated fossil fuel emissions and what there is science for is keeping 1.5 degrees as the north star. every decision we make should be geared to say does this take us in the 1.5-degree mark eer or i

the wrong direction. those are responsible for the emissions going up and needs to step up and do more. i think our government would say that. i say that, certainly. they can and must do more in order to solve this problem more rapidly. we are in a race against time and i know that everybody here does accept that concept. >> secretary kerry, what do you say to those that still deny climate change? the climate denideniers? the critics of cop28? >> it is important to have the conversation. the place where they can properly evaluate the information and compare notes and ask the right questions. a lot of the denial is driven by dark money spending in politics and ideology. you have people who are

spreading disinformation. some of the vested interests in the status quo don't want to change. they do spend money to prevent votes. look at it in washington. no republican voted in the house or senate for the inflation reduction act. not one vote. i think there wasn't really an effort to try to find a common ground even. i think what we need is for people to depoliticize this. it affects migrants and flow of people in countries. people are leaving places they live today because they can't live in heat or grow the food or they don't have the water or it is too hot to work out ddoors. a number of factors are impacting people's choices.

that is why they are talking about the need for the just transition. >> we had cnbc catch up with a number of people at the cop28. listen to what they had to say. >> the problem with security is it is not controlling the supply chains. when we have the problems such with the pandemic and the war, we realize that we were controlling nothing and independent nations could not trust. >> it is a working hard to $1 billion entertainment. you could hear the leaders of the g7 countries inviting them to be faster and more efficient already by 2030. this is the kmcommitment that should be the first one to solve the problem. >> we have partnerships beyond

africa with the specifics on how do we raise investment financing. how do we bring the opportunities with the potential there? how do we reduce the opportunity into an investment program that has specifics on what is deliverable is a positive step? >> if we are not going to do anything, nothing will happen. if we try to do something, we give the planet a chance. we have to try harder. >> is cop28 and countries here trying hard enough? >> some are and some are not. it is always like that. >> the biggest counctries? u.s. and china. their presidents are not here. are they trying hard enough? >> no. >> steve, i have to commend you and dan. you have been relentless the last couple days. i love the interviews coming

from dubai. i know your next guest is an ecb policymaker. why is an ecb policymaker attending the climate conference? >> reporter: well, joumanna, get out of my head. that is the question i was good to ask frank elderson. it is the question he is prepared for as well. frank, good to see you. my colleague who has been to more ecbs than i ever will, joumanna. she said what is the ecb doing here? >> thank you for having me here, steve. i'm here to push the talks about the financial and economic stability. we are on the 3 degree scenario. people think of 1.5 or 2. today, we are on the 3-degree scenario. the stress tests show the sooner and smoother we do the transition, the better.

we cannot have price stability and financial instability if you don't have nature and climate stability. it is squarely within our mandate with the central bank and supervisor to make sure our tasks, we factor in climate and nature related. this is what we do with monetary policy. >> that is why the bank of england head is here and he is involved in disclosure and finance. you answered the next point. financial stability and climate stability are one and the same. >> that's right. this is not a tree hugging exer. if you look at the monetary policy statement, we mention that climate risk is one of the

risks to the upside to inflation. we take this seriously. the supervisor of the banks that we are enforcing that the banks are managing climate related risk in a timely manner. we have set deadlines to do that. we have transition planning and it is important with the international regulation with the financial sectors and it is all in the horizontal manner. it is now being taken out of the equation. >> you know as well as i do because we both come from different points, but speak to a number of people in the financial sector with the money managers out there and capital allocators out there who still don't believe they have the right information to make the right decisions to allocate capital in the transition. are we giving investors and we had one fantastic lady from the u.s. investor on the show who

said i don't have enough financial disclosure. are the measures that cop28 pushing through and there are measures of financial disclosure and what you are doing at the central banks as well, is that giving the capital investors and people controlling finances in the private sector enough information to make educated decisions? s some feel they don't have it? >> disclosure and benchmarks are important. we are assessing that risk and that means they need to get the data from the clients. this they are doing their homework. you need not always wait for that. you can engage with your clients and you need proxies. you need a phasing in period so the banks know he what they neeo do. >> frank, it is a transmission

process through the system and getting the message across and from you to the banks and to all those financial houses and investors. do you think there are log jams where you can do better in terms of getting clear instructions and policy? >> i think in terms of banking supervision, we have moved to going from the phase we engage with banks to the point we enforce compliance. >> talk to me about enforcement. >> we have a number of expectations in 2020 and we had a number of deadlines by the end of 2024 that all of the banks under our direct supervision as the ecb which means 109 biggest banks in europe need to be compliant by the end of 2024. we have interim deadlines.

the march deadline this year gave us material assessments. this is a basic thing. you cannot do risk assessment if you don't have the material assessment. some banks didn't deliver. we have come out with a number of binding decisions that include if the extended deadlines the banks have got even periodic penalty payments. we are moving to a phase where we will force the banks do this. this is now so obvious that climate-related risk and nature-related risk are a source of financial risk and it needs to be managed. >> we talk about the supervisory side. we have the monetary policy side. how important is it and you can tell us what goes on in the meetings? how much goes on with climate risk with monetary policy decisions?

>> this is an important question. we central banks have been looking at the economy forever. we have been specializing the market. here at the cop, the decision were to be taken, which i hope that the coal will be phased out. >> globeally? >> if it was not decided, we still need to understand. it is clear in our macroeconomics and our outlook that we have, we need to take this into consideration and we do. >> absolutely a pleasure speaking to you today. i appreciate it. frank elderson, executive board member at the ecb. someone who has no coverage of a cop would be suitable without being here is the chairman of dsm. every cop i have been to, feike has been to.

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welcome back to cop28 coverage in dubai. you are chairman of philips and the global leaders? 125 of you? >> correct. >> you and i have done a few cops as well. this is number 28. i haven't been to 28. you probably have been to all of them. how badly are we doing or well? >> you can say the glass is half full, but things are indicated that we are off track. c cop21was the most important cop. we have been off track. 28 cops and where are we with climate is a concern. there is positive news on this cop. i think and the alliance we have

with the 125 companies, big companies in the world, by the way, if you count us all together, we would be the third largest country in the world with emissions. we would like to be the small island emissions state. should the private sector be more present? it is the public sector in charge here. the emissions are coming from the private sector. you could argue that the private sector plays a bigger role. >> you are the third biggest planet, why not just do it? you are one of the best climate leaders i have known, feike. >> we can do it without a cop and 125 are doing it. we committed together with more than 1 gigaton.

we commicommitted by 2050. i think with most companies, this is 125, is struggle thing the even playing field. could you imagine in the oil secretary or orany sector, you need to make the approve globally. >> i get it. what's the barrier? >> you need somebody be to organize it. >> let's get the chinese involved so they don't undercut? let's get the lower cost regions of the planet on board so european and global companies can compete? >> if we start from the level playing field, we don't move that way. we need to organize that.

i think let's be honest. emissions are coming from the private sector. not the public sector. the public sector makes the agreement here. they are chosen by the countries. let's be fair. i cannot say the public sector made all of the progress to stick to the paris agreement. we need stronger commitment from the private sector. >> there are most private sectors here. oil and gas and i have spoken to them. one notable oil company, chevron. what could these companies do? they're in the tent. do we need to get guidance or more rules or whatever it is from the public sector or can the private sector just move ahead? >> the private sector needs to do that, but it needs organization. it would be helpful to be visible in the world. they could do it at the cop.

then your commitment is giving a visible responsibility that each sector made that agreement. i would make an argument for that. of course, they can do it voluntarily. they like to do it together. if one industry moves slower than the other industry, in that industry is not a problem as long as it is a level playing field. you mentioned another element which is one that concerns me. the price of carbon could be a great tool to move the private sector faster. now, we have compliance market at 25% of emissions fall in the compliance market. not enough. voluntary market is a concern. >> it is a joke. the voluntary market. bad joke for the planet. >> i would almost agree the last year or year and a half, it almost collapsed.

this is installed by the governments which is controlled by the credibility of the market. it is whatever you ask as a provider and whatever you pay as somebody who needs the credits. some, there is a price difference with the wild west. there's nobody who guarantees the credit bubility of the cred. now people who bought those credits have not credible and now resisted and stepped back. that looks to almost collapse the market which is bad because it is such a great tool it is organized. i'm making a plea. take care of the institutions who certifies the credibility of the credits. >> what about the role that the rich companies and the 125 you

represent have to the emerging world? we talk about the government responsibility. we have moved forward and we lost. does the private sector have a greater role to play here? >> absolutely. let's be honest. next to mitigation which we need to continue to reduce, we need to work on adaptation. for africa, it is not something of the future, it is something of today where people are losing their lives. we need to work on seeds to work on water systems and droughts. private sector is hardly there. there are two interests for the private sector. take care of the resilience of your supply chain for your operations and secondly, this is not a dirty word, you can make

money which will provide solutions to the countries to protect themselves. we need the private sector to step up. >> i'm told we have to move on. lovely to see you. it won't be cop without you around. i'll see you the next one. feike, chairman of dsm. ceo of the 125 global climate leaders. julianna. >> steve, thank you. really interesting stuff. we look forward to your coverage tomorrow. that is it for today. we leave you with a picture of the u.s. futures. that is it to be us. i'm julianna tatelbaum with joumanna in london and steve in dubai. "worldwide exchange" is coming up next. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even

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it is 5:00 a.m. here at cnbc global headquarters. here is the "five@5." we start with searching for a record. stocks coming off a five h-week win streak with the dow in an all-time high. and risk may be hot, but safe ravens are hotter as the price of gold surges to $2,100 for the first time ever. and a merger monday may have dc regulators on alert as alaska air looks to buy