>> left the other one . if they moved to slap them, it would move them a different direction. gabrielle, thank you. thank you all for watching "power lunch." closing bell, she says, right now. thank you so much. welcome to "closing bell. " this make or break our begins with the debate where stocks are headed next after the sharpest rally in nearly 18 months. is there steam left, or will things fall apart as the calendar turns to a new year with many new challenges? let's take a look at the scorecard with 60 minutes to go in regulation. there is a bounce for the nasdaq today, down for the past five days. apple, that stock, getting back up of $3 trillion in market cap for the first time since august 3. nice gain there, nearly $4 spit out labette, amazon, and

nvidia, also winners. small caps, their sinking after a really nice run lately. and bond yields, talking about thinking, they are taking another drop. that takes us to our talk of the tape right now. will your money is likely to go. are bull and fta's john mallery argues the broadband of the rally is legit and cook even further. eric johnston has made the case repeatedly right here. the stocks cannot sustain the momentum and are sure to fall, and fall a lot. both of you, making their respective cases. gentlemen, welcome back. eric, i turn to you. this market has done incredible well over the last month. why aren't you finally push? >> the economy is slowing. one of the backbones of this economy has been the labor market. certainly, the labor

market and fiscal spending, the two things that have allowed it to stay sober cilia. fiscal spending is going to turn negative year over year shortly, and the labor market as we know, every data point is coming out. it is slowing. if you look at labor costs or companies relative to sales growth, it has now gone wrong way, which means when we look at our data, we think the corporates are going to cut those costs and cut labor costs , so the economy is just starting to slow. if you think we are out of the woods because the fed is done hiking, the last three fed hike cycles, the recession has started 10 to 17 months after the last rate hike. the last rate hike was four months ago, so this is not unusual for the fact we have not gone into recession yet. >> it is unusual, though, how we came into the fed hiking cycle, is it not?

right, the economy was at a strong point. there was so much stimulus in the system. this wasn't your run-of-the-mill fed start hiking, so batten down the hatches the cycle, and i think we've learned that over the last 18 months, despite many called the economy was already going to be in a recession because of the aggressive campaign the fed launched. >> yes, and i think that's why it's taken so much longer than many people, including myself thought, but it doesn't change the fact that the trajectory of the economy is for it to slow. those questions around how much will it slow, but i think the data clearly shows it's going to slow, and when you have slowing growth and lower inflation, earnings don't do well in that situation. >> well, slowing growth from 5%. there are obviously -- history is littered with periods of time will growth is good and inflation is not nearly what it is now or what it was, and those earnings do just fine. what if we are in a period of

normalizing the economic growth is? what is the long-term trend, 2%? >> yesterday issue if you are paying one of the highest multiples we have paid in the last 65 years, so the starting point around multiple is far too high, and then will we are in the economic cycle, right? we are not at the beginning of the economic cycle to the unemployment rate right now is 3.9% . it's been below 4% for 22 months. that is about the second longest ever. the longest was about 35 months, which would be another year. when you look at nominal gdp growth since the last recession, it's only grown 40%, so the average growth coming out of a recession is about 55%, so we're late cycle. the multiple is one of the highest we have seen in 65 years, and you have an economy that is slowing, and you have

earnings that are too high. that is a bad combination. >> mr. mallory, you say what? >> i do agree that you are seeing stretched multiples, particularly in the larger tech space. i would not argue with that. what i would pivot to if you look down the cab scale, you talked about it on your show, scott. we are seeing a lot of those areas that have been blasted, and i think the recession had been priced in it i will give this statistic you people this up today. if you look at the number of stocks in the russell 2000 value or russell mid cap value, they are on pace to be down back to back calendar years that it is the highest since the gsc, and the second period it was that high was in the 2000 bubble coming out of the .com bubble, so there are stocks in the small-cap arena that have been trashed the people avoided these because they have hired that balances typically. you have financials.'s have been punished because of what happened in march. that's credit opportunity. the fed is paying people not to take risks. they really are. you are being paid to sit in

the budding market come sit on cash. you need to look at areas that have been dislocated because of those opportunities, so we see value there, and i think you know that ian is cheap. we can talk about that later. >> what happens when your rates come down? that seems to be will there trends seem to be, despite the call that we would have higher than 5%. we are below 4.2% on the 10 year. what happens when you get to a point, and maybe it is soon , will money starts to come out of money markets and into risk assets like stocks? does that sound so far-fetched? >> it does a little bit. >> why? >> since pre-pandemic, money market assets have grown by true trillion dollars, money market plus deposits has grown by two $2 trillion, which sounds like a lot. >> for reason. >> the capitalization of stocks has gone up by 12 trillion. stocks have gotten more expensive. money market yields have gone from zero to the highest in 20 years, so one question could be why have not the money market assets gone up more than that?

why haven't more assets got up to that really of the curves trade of whether it be mbs, high-yield, high grades? that are now yielding yields we have not seen in a very long time , so the risk/reward owning those assets is far more attractive than paying a peak multiple on peakish earnings on the late cycle. >> i'm glad you bring that up because rick reeder, black rock was here on this very set will you are sitting a day ago , and he agrees with you that the belly of the curve, five, seven years, is a great place to be, but he also makes the argument equities are going to do just fine because rates are going to come down, and the economy will hang in there. i want you to listen to what you told me yesterday. we can kick it to the other side. >> and quities get you 7% to 12% return? i don't think you will have spectacular risk performance like you saw in data this year,

but i think you can still have a pretty good year. look at he level of gdp and ability for companies to throw off real cash flow. listen, i'm pretty relaxed. i think you will have good returns, but i would build in your portfolio a lot of income, and you can do it by not taking a lot of risks today. >> he agrees with you in some respects, but not in others. we can still do pretty well. he was pretty sanguine when he used that word. >> i think if you have -- i think the bull case right now of slowing growth, lower inflation, but yet equities' earnings grow by 12%, and the fed cuts 125 bfs, there are a lot of things going on that are at odds, and i think they will start later. >> because the market is rising in march, only three meetings away. >> exactly right i think for what the market is pricing in

right now, that is quite threading the needle of having 11% earnings growth while inflation comes down, because inflation coming down is a negative for earnings. it helped earnings growth. it will now be a headwind. growth slowing and saying, we're going to pay 19 or 20 times multiple when i have the choice to get seven or 8% returns, as he said in the belly of the curve. if i could get 7% to 8% returns, why would i take this risk of owning something quite expensive with a lot of risk, and really, no margin for error. >> you think the bulls are over there skis a little bit, john, that everything will be just fine. for many, the base case is now soft landing, economy hangs in, inflation comes down, the fed cuts. they can.

they have to, and all the world is good. >> i think everyone has been offsides all year. they were underweight in the nasdaq, underweight and the s&p, they thought we were going into a recession, so they have been outside there, and they are outsize again and positioning with the small caps. scott, if i told you the s&p sup industry regional banks were tied to triple keys over the last six months, would you believe me? it is we're seeing a tremendous move, and investors should be on all sides now. >> that's because that's when the crisis hit. you went to a point of panic to a point of no panic because the fed had you back. >> the banks suffer tremendously after that period too. there has been more consensus that the fed is going to reduce rates, and if you look at the two-year bond signaling that, over the last year, the two-year bond yield is based 22 points. when you see a spread that large , the bond market thread, you need to cut it. the market is pricing that you that's why you are seeing banks move, and there traveling at

the slowest speeds we have seen since 2000. there are a lot of opportunities. you say stretch multiples and large areas. that is not the case in small areas. >> he is making the case that you are seeing things stretched across multiple areas, not just pointing out -- he said the market is way too expensive. we are only at 15% for the equal rate snp. it has been easy to pick on and say that market is overvalued. it is overvalued like the bears you suggest because those stocks have a higher evaluation than the rest of the market. >> i think they do, but i think one of the reasons why there has been this sharp decrease in multiples it in the group john is talking about is because the money has gotten into the bank accounts, so i think they are very, very late. you saw yesterday, the market was down while small-cap was surging on

its way up here that's because mega caps were down. yesterday, mega caps got cheaper. those names got more expensive, but at the net, they are tied. as money goes into the smaller names, it's got to come out of the larger stage, but it doesn't change the ultimate fact that the group, as an aggregate, right? is not growing and has the multiples. >> i will point that you look at performance in the market and you think, this is getting away from me now, and then you are forced to change your view. like, bears are a bit on the defensive where they had all the chip toward them early on. now, the table has turned, and the bulls are the ones flexing their muscles, suggesting a change in our direction. what pushes you toward their direction further? >> i think stocks can overshoot and undershoot. one five weeks ago, the marker was 4100. the narrative is very different now with an f i-45 50. and i

said i thought based on the current sediment conditioning, it was to arrive in a couple of weeks, but i think if you take a step back and put price aside . ultimately stocks go to the fundamental levels. we have seen overshoots in the internet bubble and individual stocks during our meme situation. all those cases ultimately, it's a matter of when. only those stocks go their fundamental value. you never said oh, yeah. stocks should trade 20, 21 sized earnings. don't say no because stock prices have gone to the level they are. ultimately, stocks go to their fundamental right price. it is a matter of when, and i think it's going to happen again. >> that's why i am bullish. there are so many stocks trading at the descent price

point since seven, 10 years. rex field international, we are seeing opportunities across the state, and if you down to catskill just outside the max seven, it gets very interesting but if you move the top ones, we are seeing opportunities, and investments need to buy straw hats in the winter. they need to put them in portfolios, lock them away, and there will be big returns. i want to make sure the audience heard me. back to back, this does not happen, scott. this does not have an statistically. when you get these dislocations, you need to be aggregating capital there. we see lots of activities there . not every stock is cheap. we're looking for opportunities, but when you look at the landscape, i think they have been avoiding these areas, and there like i would

argue you should take risks. >> what do you do if eric is right, that enthusiasm of the economy is misplaced, because we haven't had a recession yet, but we may get done close as we get into two dozen 24, and don't count on that rate cut your hoping for at march. at the very least. >> we're not put a stock in the portfolio. >> if you are making in the argument we need to make is dramatically outperforming, more cyclically sensitive areas of the market, you better hope we don't have a recession. that's not going to work. >> i think a lot of it is priced. i think a lot of this has been priced in with a lot of the multiple contraction, and we are seeing on the mental hope so i'm arguing you will see a lot of that already priced. just to be clear, yes to reality evaluate your positions and you've got to know and fold

them. sometimes you kick in a mouth that doesn't miss, have structural at least, but in aggregate, investors are under invested in these areas, a year ago, we were very sad and talk about people? >> what about people who aren't ? that's what he think those stocks will continue to do well. that's why they have had that defensive nature to them, and why would i change anytime soon. you're getting a little bit of everything. i think we're going to continue to work, and what i mean is outperformed the rest of the market until we go into the recession like regrowth. then at that point, all these cheap names that john is talking about will be buys because of the recession then or the bottom in growth. it's going to be okay.

we're a threat forward. as long as economic growth is in front of us, i think you'll want on a relative basis on the mega caps versus everything else, then i think you want to turn the tables as soon as you feel like we're getting towards the bottom in your commie. >> you are getting the first, you are making the last. i will tell you that our positioning is shifting and we're getting more defensive in our positioning. what do i mean by that? authorities are being keeper. wreaths, staples, and utilities are expensive, so was interesting about the portfolios today we are moving into more defensive areas. that does not mean that it can't build positive returns. you can see these names have very good returns, but because of the interest rate environment . that has re-created a big defense and devices. all these names you can get

risk-free at 40%. asked soon as that starts to shift. people are going to perish into the yield stocks for training at the lowest multiples for years. >> johnston and malley, you are a good team. thank you for being with us here. particulates talk about the stocks. charter is under its worse mirth of the month after carol fisher posted this quarter. the commentary has shares deep in the red right now and puts you and cbs' products, tight mood. kind alysia producer lighter weight and setting substantial deterioration in the global lithium market. you guessed, also cutting this price tag due to the prices.

that's because he shares was 5%. we are just getting started here. up next,. also, merlin is here. just join us after the break. we're live with the new york stock exchange, and you're watching closing bell on cnbc .

when you're wearing the world's coziest slippers, your comfort zone can be just about, anywhere. step into your comfort zone with olukai.

first time i connected with kim, she told me that her husband had passed. and that he took care of all of the internet connected devices in the home. i told her, “i'm here to take care of you.” connecting with kim... made me reconnect with my mom. it's very important to keep loved ones close. we know that creating memories with loved ones brings so much joy to your life. a family trip to the team usa training facility. i don't know how to thank you. i'm here to thank you. for years, oz perlman has been capturing the minds of a-

list celebrities and athletes. he is bringing his talent here and joins me now. things are being here. i really want to know because i have seen you perform nd i think a lot of people have as well. how do you become the mentalist from michigan to merrill to the mentalist? >> this was always what i did as kind of a side hustle/passion. you think of magic as sleight of hand tricks that you fool the eye, then you graduate from that level to fooling the mind, knowing how people think. you don't need to have fast hands anywhere because i know how people do it and influence in certain ways. protected you always want a career in wall street? >> i love paul street to this day. it is a passion of mine. finance, the markets, but i don't think it was my calling. i worked at merrill lynch. shout out to merrill, but it wasn't -- i knew i was destined for something else, and to this day, i still love it.

>> when you love to merrill, did people think you are crazy. >> people were like, are you mental, so i think my parents had a real talk at me are you sure this is a good idea? sometimes it got to take a leap of faith and go for your passion. you can jump into the pool with your toes dipped in the water. i was doing shows on the side, then i quit. then i was like, i've got to make this a reality, not just a dream. >> nbc's america's got talent was a big thing. >> that took me from being a local act in the new york city area to national and international. people got to see what i do. >>, geeks do you have a year, would you say no? >> i have to talk to my manager, but i would guess between 120 to 130.

i had a zoom show, virtual show this morning. there are companies that are shockingly still remote, and i have another show live for new york city. >> is much as i think people love to hear your story, they wanted to perform some sort of act, magic act. we're are you a magician? >> when people say are you a magician, what would you do? protect think of a magician as a doctor, general physician. i am more of a plastic surgeon, where there are very few i've got the extra train where i don't need the cards to get into people's heads anymore. >> higher fees. >> if you are a plastic surgeon, you are like, what is cosmetic? >> we're talking about what is it what i do, and people ask me that all the time. i am not a psychic. i have no supernatural ability, scott. try this yourself. you eat, breathe, and sleep stocks. imagine you look in the future and random, they need to know you have no idea. think about a day in 2024, swear on your life there is no way i can know about what you say.

>> i have a date. >> say it. >> halloween. >> october 31, 2024. i know this is real this is not insider figure did you have a crystal ball and have seen on that date, 4:00 p.m., one stock is either up or down the most of anyone. you and you alone know this company. i know this is not real life. this is not a real prediction, but i wanted to focus on that company that you have determined in your mind and thinking, is it going to go up or down. you are bullish, optimistic it it went up right? i can see it. i know all the different sectors. i know what you would have avoided. close your eyes, please. be honest. i did not tell you what to do. you could have thought of any company, or i need them to know at home. true? >> that's true. >> i wanted to go big with this. which company are you -- are addicting in your mind, somehow, you know this october

31, 2024. >> there would be no way you know this. how could you possibly -- >> we will go big with big lou, ibm, my friends. >> stop it! i don't know how you do this. >> can we bring one more person on? contestant brewer, get in here. >> i was psychic. i thought you might need me. >> let's do some shameless promotion. this is a good stocking stuffers for christmas. your viewer loves it. this is a good one. i'm being honest. take your book, and i wanted to flip over to any random page. he still shook up by my idea. >> i have no idea how you knew that. >> if you did, my job security would not be as intact. anything that you want, rip it out here this will be a valuable, folks. i want you to do the same in your mind but different because the best stories are not just told in books, but goods that

get made into movies. i want you to contestant ramsey to think of any movie star in this moment. think of a movie star, male or female. take that age, and rip it down the middle. i wanted to hold both ends on the hands, and get rid of the hands for one moment. let either piece drop, and when you drops, you change your mind . turn it sideways, scott, rip it happen again. freeze right there. when we tell a good story, especially about stocks. i threw have three tocks i want to show you right here. bring these up, please, or all of them at once. can we bring them up on screen. mastercard. what is the next one. thomson reuters. one more company, united states steel. if we could bring the story up. do you know what connects those three? you don't realize it but it is in there. hear me out. this is going to be so impressive. my thoughts. change of mind.

new movie star. is it this one? it will blow your mind. rip it down the middle again. rip it down the middle again, scott. i want to take either one of those and drop. change your mind, new superstar. rip that one down, and i want you to take and rip each one into each size of the half- dollar quarter. finagle those. he will take but last but certainly not least i wanted to drop one of the pieces. now, we go to the front. what i want to do here is one last piece. this is where we get to the ending. the movie that person is and, i think it is a guy. the one with movie in it? >> yes. >> is that a guy or girl?

the movie star, a movie star in the movie that you picked, so a guy? she was confused. it's a brave new world. listen to me. i want you to take that pad of paper, and i want you to write down the movie you picked that he was in. right down the movie. he was right there. what do you have? put it down the middle. rip up all the ads that does not have stuff, paperwork, and what i want you to do right now? you wrote the movie? is it the movie? show me. let me answer the question. is this the movie you picked before? >> the same one. >> no. contestant, let's go to the first movie. let's take that one away. see she changed her mind. hear me out. if we were to look down, we would guesstimate that we have one segment with nothing to it. how many words would you say

you would see on it roughly? about 20. tell us, look down on it? >> nothing. i'm trying to get back to the original, but you made me change for like 10 times. the original movie star. you look at the movie star, the movie they are in. >> is it a good ending? i hope so. >> the ending. i got it. >> from your whole page, page after page after page should look you were looking at this. what word out of their, of all that's written jumps out the most, when you look to say it. >> turn around, show them. >> the matrix. >> i don't know how. >> everything connects. we have a lot of equity trainers. look at the tickers to what does the ticker symbol lies for mastercard? >> and a.

>> was is the system for boyars ? >> the leather!? >> the letter x. >> okay, that was -- why, he is telling me to change 90 times. i don't understand. >> you don't have to hear. thank you. great to see you. >> he is like that one, not that one. >> that was oz pearlman, folks. you've seen him all over television. >> i'm sold. >> amazing. thank you, again. that sector, slipping this year as it's got nearly 5%. why the measure is betting on that big ace up ahead.

the biggest thing that is not under the surface anymore is the weight loss coming on and on. the gop want effect, as you call it. how are you investing into that ? >> we have actually been following this theme, investing in this theme for years now that this is an incredible opportunity that was developed in part through a diabetes drug , lily and novo took a diabetes franchise, developed it into what could have been only an aesthetic market in the obesity

market as it stood, and ultimately with the outcomes data they provided, have been able to transform that into what could be a transformational outcome in the industry to, obviously, prevent death and cardiovascular outcomes and ultimately long turn savings in the health care system as well. >> today was j&j's enterprise day, and you have stocks that you focused on around that that you are invested in, names like protagonist? >> yes. >> a lot of these names, we don't talk about often, but ptg x. why? >> one of the things i do want to say about a company like j and j today is when we look at their innovative medicines that they have really showcased, they have transformed themselves. they are in effect a biotech

company, and when you look at the large-cap companies and see what they are doing, they are not only developing well here they are partnering well, protagonist is one of those partners, and what they've been able to do it protagonist is develop a next-generation in the autoimmune indication world, j&j 2113. we heard from j&j that this has potential to be over $5 billion in peak sales. they had previously said about $1 billion in peak sales, such as the augmentation of that guidance is something we were looking to and very excited about. >> watching that stock on the move today. legend pharmaceuticals. >> legend is another great example of true innovation and j&j finding the right partners early and being able to take these companies at the right time and catalyze it into something very dramatic from a market potential standpoint. we like legend because of the approach to the science and cell therapy. they are using a car t technology. they are supercharging the t cells in the body, the immune system, and allowing it to fight cancer.

now, legend is a phenomenal example of someone growing the market. we do have a company as well that we really like and are investing in. it is another company that is moved its way into the cell therapy car t market that we will see is a multibillion- dollar opportunity for multiple myeloma patients to see a much different type of outcome . it could be that standard of care in the future. >> look forward to doing that again. michelle ross, joining us here. trucking the biggest movers as we head to the close. christina, standing by with that. >> our customer still dealing out the dough for the more expensive smokers to have? at&t cutting a deal with erickson. where does that leave no kia?

we're 15 from the closing bell. let's take a look at the key stocks. if otis was here, he would tell us before you even did it, but go ahead. >> maybe he is on the sidelines listening and guessing, or not. he is a mentalist that he knows. even though sales fell 12%, smokers posted higher prices and consumers' willingness to buy

higher-quality product. that's why shares, overall, are out of 4%. say goodbye to nokia and hello to erickson . at&t secured a partnership to revamp at&t's wireless networks. that's pushing at&t above 3%, erickson up of 4%, but that means replacing existing cantor cell towers with machinery and software. it is paying no kia stock price down percent, hitting a three-year low on the news. we're thank you. we'll breakdown the new report but has the big tech name moving higher today, topping $3 trillion once again. we will talk about how it might impact the stock exchange in 2024. we'll be right back.

something amazing is happening here. students are inspired and engaged. that's because school districts consulted with cdw

to design modern classroom solutions with preconfigured hp devices making education immersive, accessible and secure. now, when researchers study elephants, kids learn from 9000 miles away. make amazing happen. hp and cdw.

want to give you quick look at the earnings in overtime this evening. we've got box, mondobd, aerovironment. american express, taking a hit today, the stock falling nearly 2%. what is sending that name lower. what could be in stock for them this holiday season. that much and more, when we take you inside the market zone. ♪

trading at schwab is now powered by ameritrade, unlocking the power of thinkorswim, the award-winning trading platforms. bring your trades into focus on thinkorswim desktop with robust charting and analysis tools, including over 400 technical studies. tailor the platforms to your unique needs with nearly endless customization. and track market trends with up-to-the-minute news and insights. trade brilliantly with schwab.

power e*trade's easy-to-use tools, like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. with powerful, easy-to-use tools, power e*trade makes complex trading easier. react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity. e*trade from morgan stanley

we're now in the closing bell market zone. cnbc commentator s, q2 breakdown what's behind that rally in apple shares as well. comments on amex ceo's. yields below 4.2. what stands out the most? >> we had some negative breadth. now, we have vice versa. to me, it is the quiet, sort of low amplitude churn we're in for the last couple of weeks, really the last 11 trading

sessions, you haven't even had a 0.6% daily move in the s&p 500. there has been lots of sloshing around, and i think on that, you are up a little bit over the snp on that period, but that's what we wanted to see. i do think you're at a point where you can look at a chart and so we stopped right at resistance. anybody forced him to participate in the rally, a lot of shortcomings happening could what next? what next is probably comfort, first quarter and a fourth quarter earnings are implausible . soft landing seems okay but not too soft and not too hard, not too fast a landing, and that's the debate we're going to be having a wild year the rate relief is real, and what you say to people like eric johnston, who you listen to and know the story well. >> what is the pushback?

>> it is completely implausible to imagine 11% earnings growth next year and the fed is going to get easier and inflation is going down. you are describing the year 1995, okay? we had 10.5% earnings growth, 5% nominal gdp growth, you had the fed cut two or three times, not 100 something basis points, but you basically had a similar mission accomplished type year. the other piece of the earnings growth story, look at it is quirky stuff. it is the top six stocks contributing to the net earnings growth. merck had a massive $10 billion decline in income that's coming next year. it is not some kind of heroic revenue growth story that is penciled in. is 4.4% revenue growth. that is what the snp has projected next year . project you don't need to be a mentalist to figure that out. raising their guidance for this holiday season. gadget demand is better than they expected

after looking at the first couple of months in the quarter, and that's great news for apple. this is coming as we just finished a full fiscal year of declining sales for apple and for this current holiday quarter we're in now. scott, apple is saying sales were expected to be flat here, so investors have been looking for apple to return to the top line revenue growth and seems to be hanging onto those comments from foxconn today as signs maybe they can squeak out a little bit of a win here, scott. >> appreciate that, steve, very much. mike, about 3 trillion in market cap for the first time in three months. >> first of all, every year people seem to rediscover that it is a holiday shopping beneficiary, and whether it's true or not you've got a huge push in sales or not, people feel like it is. it makes a lot of sense that it is. also, it sort of splits the difference between this sort of hypergrowth. it's nvidia, microsoft ai

story, and it's a boring, defensive type of thing. i run out of sort of edgy, smart things to say about apple because it just does its own thing. it's not really a reflection of a lot else going on except for its own heft and dominance. >> i remember it was 169, below 170 not too long ago. to your point, it bounced back in the face of what seemed to be negativity from a fundamental standpoint, but it is boy, it is a beast. >> the whole kind of being insulator agnostic about what yields do because you do have a lot of cash and also the lowest cost debt in corporate america. all of it, i think, it makes sense here. it does not necessarily imply we're on some kind of accelerated uptrend in the stock, but it is always impressive when it gets there. >> kate rooney, it was around

noon when amex started falling because the ceo started talking at a conference? >> yes get an ex-'s ceo gave its investors cause for concern. he said that billy is in october were, quote, not as strong as they were in the third quarter. that spooked investors. he said at the time we did not see growth in october like it was in the third quarter, and he pointed out some weakness there in travel entertainment. goods and service remained relatively strong, and for context, amex's growth in the third quarter was 7% he said november buildings were in line, and that consumer retail was very stock from thanksgiving all the way to cyber monday. he was encouraged by deputy pointed to their more affluent clients based. he has not seen a slowdown in demand for this premium feepaying cardholders . e did say they are seeing double digit growth in international buildings, which is one of the higher margins, more profitable for amex and card companies.

>> we're we'll keep our eyes on that stock too. we've got one more relay i play to report earnings, and that is this week? that is the stock that the bulls make the argument is a cheaper version of nvidia, at that has kept this thing, though it's not talked as much as much nvda, but it is up over 70%. >> you've probably got the repricing in terms of counting for that exposure because beforehand, it was really, purely steady free cash flow story, buyback return, capital, all that stuff. it is in the stock at this point . historically, market still like to have to hunt for the magic exposure to the secular trend within a company that has a lot of other stuff going on, which is why nvidia has been the preferred choice, but it would be interesting to tell about the pacing on things like that . we'll see how it goes. i do think with the annexed comments, you have to at least pay attention to a relatively muted commentary in general about the current quarter activity . that is something you can see in some of the

guidance, and we have to be aware. next year's numbers don't see as implausible. amex was up 32 bucks since october. it is now down. >> we're going to go out in the red could we set the nasdaq is getting a little bit of a bounce back. i will see you tomorrow. stop switching. after trading in a narrow range, the s&p, closing just below the flatline . that is the scorecard on wall street. more on the closing bell. i morgan brennan with jon fortt. big apple earnings. plus, it's nearly winter, but one bear is coming out of hibernation.