us playing] that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thanks for watching. [music playing] ♪ persistent

there are geopolitical events. in this environment, whether you are a secentral banker, it is very, very hard. >> as a regular banker, settle an argument that karen and i have had for years is this great because of the increased net interest margin and interest income or bad b because you have a rise in delinquency or a bit of both >> a bit of both

the miraculous thing we have seen in the last two or three years, inflation rise and the softening is we have seen it without a credit problem really at the corporate level or individual level it is partly because of the stimulus and it is partly because it has remained high in the consumer business. it is a very, very unusual one i think we should take it. >> what shape do you think the uk consumer is in? it feels different pent up saving do you think the consumer is in good shape in 2024 >> i think the uk consumer is in good shape on the other hand, it is a floating rate mortgage market. a lot of adjustment has happened the average term is three years fixed.

we had three years of rising rates. the two things that hit the pocketbook have come down. i'm optimistic on uk growth is great. it is not as strong as the united states. there are so many advantages in the uk and it is the rhome of innovation and technology. you had the chancellor here earli earlier. this election is not margaret thatcher >> i remember being an options trader in the early '90s if it is labour, it is down, if it is tory, it is up it is not hunts and reads. as aregular banker at a regula bank, all i get is a drip feed

of information about the strategic review and the stunningly tough job for you you paid a lot of money for this i know you are giving us full details in february. what can you tell us about the review and when we will get real news on it >> the review is presented along with earnings on the 20th of february it is not that far away. we are trying to address three basic issues the bank has not done a review in ten years we last presented our financial targets in 2016. first of all, we increased our return we produce from single digits to double digits in the last several years we have been double digits the last three years the second thing is we have got to be talk about what our return targets are and we have to be clear about how much of these refe returns we are going to give to shareholders and what the

business progress we will make to enable both of those things that is what it is about in a nutshell >> let me bring in my guest. joe taylor, the ceo of the teachers pension plan. joe, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> i love to discuss the report you wrote which was about navigating the new world order we are not reverting to the kind of normal from the past few decades. i have a bone of contention with what is normal the new normal and new, new normal and new, new, new normal. what is the new, new, new, new normal >> for our team, we have a lot of people working for us what experienced an economy where it has been growing and there have been tailwinds in the companies we back and how they perform now we are looking at things to

say how do we help the companies expand with the added activities the second thing is there is more uncertainty around. we are an international investor we see that uncertainty through geopolitics which is a huge issue at davos this week we are finding the ability to proper t predict whether it is gdp growth or other things. last year, we probably would have been bearish about the growth rates in the u.s. than what transpired. >> we had push back from the fed and ecb and lagarde herself throwing cold water over the market saying do not get ahead of yourself. the rate cuts you are hoping and wanting will not come showering down how does that affect your

outlook? >> i'm glad you mentioned that point. we are a long-term investor. our liabilities go out for many years. 300,000 each in ontario. this are well looked after and they live a long time. we have to provide for that. we have to stay our course with the long-term investor and not get distracted to what comes at the moment, we would see interest rates being higher for longer than many. i think there are many illustrations where you say inflation is quite sticky and difficult to get back to 2% to 2.5% >> you make a good point of the long-term view we are all living longer what pension reform do you need to discuss given that we're not only seeing aging populations, but those who are aging are going to age for longer. >> i think if i bring it back to

our agency, we are announced liabilities from the propvincia government we have our in-house investment team and we have a portfolio of 250 billion canadian dollars which gives us advantages. we can take our time and look at different scenarios. i think more than anything, we have the scale to actually make sure that we can make long-term choices which make sure our plan remains fully funded if i go back to the canadian model, thingone thing we discus we have to make up the shortfall within three years that is a good discipline. it makes you realize the importance of being fully funded for the longer term. >> in that report that i mentioned at the beginning that some of the themes for you are

a.i. you and i were having a chat earlier in the green room. everyone is saying we are optimistic about a.i this is revolutionary. it will transform our business do you think there is too much optimism and we have not seen the risks hit us in the face yet? >> with any new thing, there is a lot of excitement. a.i. is in that realm. i would say there is absolute justification of a.i. being transfo transformational everybody needs to decide how it affects them particularly. one of our questions, which we discuss is one of the questions that have not been raised with a.i. often enough is a lot of the automation of tasks and tasks which might be lower level tasks and blue collar tasks will mean some people will be displaced with employment. the question is that is that going to increase inequality in

countries rather than improve the lot for many people across the board? >> i would love to talk more we have run out of time. that is our problem here on live tv jo, thank you for joining us jo taylor, the ceo of the teachers pension plan. let's get to carolin in the london studio. thank you. we are seeing signs of stabilization. take a look at the stoxx 600 in europe it is up 0.2% after yesterday where this index posted the worst day since october. this all had to do, of course, with the comments from ecb president lagarde yesterday. i want to show you the markets one by one ftse 100 falling to a november low. it is recovers some losses today. dax is up .30%

smi in switzerland, we will talk about in a second, up .3%. ibex in spain is up .13% we are seeing utilities and food and beverage on the down side with modest losses this story is the story of the day. richemont shares rose 8% on the annual basis it was down on the previous six months it saw strong performance in asia pacific and the americas. really interesting note from jpmorgan chase this morning saying that the update was robust this group remains in the high quality camp and it is the higher quality names like

richemont is seeing demand from the luxury sector. and switzerland is down 26% for the watches after the company cut the annual forecast. the retailer now sees revenue growth between 2% to 3% versus 8% to 11% previously you can find out more about what is behind the latest guidance on cnbc.com mandy. thank you for that, carolin. plenty coming up on the show from davos we will continue the conversation with the director general of the wto coming up next plus, we hear from the ceo of ukraine's largest investor in the energy sector. that is coming your way.

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when people say maga, they he ar

are looking for people voting for trump. they are scapegoating that you are like him i don't think they are voting for trump for family values. be honest. he was right about nato and right about immigration. he grew the economy quite well >> china virus >> tax reform worked >> taxes of 30% to 40% it depends on the economy, stupid we have to see what happens with interest rates as we he go through the year i think american business doesn't admit they will be in support of trump >> i know american businesses is fond of the ira. >> trump made clear he is not fond of it >> let's see when i see how american business is supportive of that, i'm from the perspective of the level playing field, if it comes back

to global trade on the basis of the w.t.o. >> those were just some of the voices we heard about the trump re-election, after his win in iowa we have dr. ngozy, thank you for joining us today i will get to trump in a second, but let's look at your views for 2024 you originally thought goods trade might pick up to 3.3% this year from the 0.8% last year how much less optimistic are you now? has the red sea been the key swing? >> thank you, mandy. yes, we are slightly less optimistic about our forecast than we were i think the red sea and the attacks and the fact that the container ships have had divert

and the container shipping has had to wane this year. the prospect of maybe a wider spread of the conflict is very concerning you have also seen that the global gdp growth forecasts have been downgraded by the world bank and imf when this is done, it has an impact on trade because it hits aggregate demand all around. yes, we are less optimistic. we expect the numbers to be better than last year. >> you said in september that it was too early to say the globalization is dead. what is the reheassessment now global globalization? we hear we are de-risking the business that may be a statement for now we are only going to deal with alliances that seem friendly to

us, which seems introverted and protec protectionist. >> i still maintain my stance. i think pronouncing the end of globalization may be too soon. perhaps global sization may note more than we thought before. we need to see a new globalization to bring in those left out at the margins in the first round. the prospects are strong we want to build more resilient supply chains. you can make it more so by deconcentrating the spliens sup chains that have been concentrated in sectors. you can build a more resilient world by decentralizing the countries and there are many with the good business environment to receive the

supply chains. developing world china plus one which is vietnam and china and two and three and four or five south asia and latin america. >> it might change with a return from former president trump. he said if he wins in 2024, he is already considering massive import tariffs to realign things all over again are you concerned? >> let's put it this way, 75% of world trade today is done on w.t.o. terms that istariffs that is 75%. that makes trade stable and predictable and largely fair we maintain that unless you want a little bit of chaos, it would be very difficult to undermine

that approach. that means any country can take whatever measure they like imagine if one country decides to put tariffs and another decides to put higherer tariffs and another the same this is chaos why this system was created. we need to keep that in mind sdplcmind >> it is no secret that trump and w.t.o. butted heads. if the benefit of hindsight, he comes into president, would you approach things differently? >> i think president trump had his views about the w.t.o. and his system i don't think it is a phenomenal with trump in the u.s., they are on both sides of the aisle, views of the role of w.t.o. and trade

i think while some views have merit, because globalization did leave out some people, i think that largely the benefits that it brought up to be remembered so i think what we need to do is not basing it on views here or there, but we need to think about how does the w.t.o. need to reform so the organization fits for the 21st century challenges we need to make sure the type of trade is the trade of the future that we make agreements on those rules. digital trade is the future of trade. digitally deliver services has grown rapidly. it is a bright spot. we are now negotiating the rules on digital trade we need to reform our system

this is the only place in the world where one country can bring another when they have trade complete we are working on that the dispute settlement and negotiations we need to be fit with climate change where we think trade is part of the solution i am excited we are going the reforms that are needed to be able to answer and we are looking at level playing field issues are their re places they he are given in the wrong form? >> one criticism on both sides of the level playing field is the u.s. and china despite the various barbs with the trade, trade hit a record high in 2022 what is the issue with the trade relations this year? >> you are absolutely right.

in spite of the barbs, 2022 was a record high with the figures from the commerce department we see that with the recent measures which have been put in place. trade, china, u.s. trade is falling. i think china customs and the administration released figures with trade falling 11.6% in 2023 between chin a and the u.s. the trade with china and the u.s. is declining, but it will remain the largest trading partner for some time. maybe the u.s. is the largest trading partner may be mexico or some other country we see changes in certain sectors with technology. by and large, i think there will be significant trade between the two countries and i think the two leaders of the countries recognize this and trying to

maintain a stable relationship as they can. >> it benefits everybody >> absolutely does, mandy. >> thank you for joining us, dr. ngozi. i have been speaking with the dir director-general of the w.t.o. stay tuned we will have an interview with maksym timchenko next. don't miss that coming up. switch to shopify and sell smarter at every stage of your business. take full control of your brand with your own custom store. scale faster with tools that let you manage every sale from every channel. and sell more with the best converting checkout on the planet. a lot more. take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify.

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welcome back to "street signs" live from davos i'm mandy drury along with carolin roth in london let's look at the headlines. barclays ceo warns to time the interest rate cuts is tricky. >> the thing we have seen in this last two to three years of inflation rise and softening is we have seen it without a credit problem. at a corporate level or

individual level. uk chancellor positions labour as the pro-business party ahead of the election this year. >> i'm here to say we are open for business we want businesses to thrive and reinvest profits here in britain. we have no plans to increase income tax. dutch prime minister rutte tells cnbc it is important for centrist parties it is clear for the year >> the centrist party has to be more successful. myself and my party need to explain we are there for the collective safety. the right-wing parties are challenging particularly the world ordinanerorder. coming up on the show from london, it is a mixed picture as watches of switzerland plunges

20%. richemont gains after topping sales forecasts. a quick look at u.s. futures. we are a couple of hours away from the trading session the s&p is seen opening higher to the tune of 5 points. the dow jones industrial average up by 8 and the nasdaq up 55 points this is after the dow has seen a third straight day of declines yesterday and on the back of the stronger retail sales. once again pushing back expectation for the first rate cut could be coming from the fed. here in europe, we are seeing the market finding the footing

we are seeing the smi out performing by .13% richemont is key only the ftse 100 is holding on to the flat line in switzerland, richemont up 9% on the back of the better sales numbers coming from richemont. in the currency space, the dollar losing ground today, but not too far away from the one-month high sterling/dollar up 0.2%. following on the stronger inflation print yesterday. last, but not least, a look at the oil markets. we are seeing the brent crude up .50%. 76.30% wti up 0.8%. we got monthly opec report and that is forecasting much

stronger growth in terms of global oil demand in the next two years. mandy. thank you, carolin f the u.s. has conducted fresh strikes on 14 iran-backed houthi missiles that says was loaded to be fired from yemen. it is the fourth strike in a week in a statement on x, the campaign should degrade the capabilities of houthis over reckless attacks on u.s. shipping. and davos sweeping into the key voices in politics and business about the situation in the red sea. let's take a listen. >> whatever is vshipped isexpen. this is an attack on international shipping not israel or the united states. that is why 40 countries came

together to condemn what the houthis were doing other countries said if this continues, this will be a result of getting them to stop. >> translator: attention must be paid to the route and origin of the problem. it is not just one piece of the puzzle, the red sea, we believe they should go back to the crimes in gaza if these crimes are stopped, the situation created in the region and spread of war can be contained. >> we have ships to go through the gulf and red sea regularly last year, we had two ships attacked by the iranian navy and one ship boarded from helicopters and the ship hi hijacked we have another one that took fire for several hours this will the u.s. navy interceded it is a serious situation and it is getting worse

ukraine's volodymyr zelenskyy called for more aid and urging allies to step up pressure on russia the dutch defense minister said it is key to receive greater military support. >> we have to make sure ukraine gets what it needs in terms of the ammunition and spare parts and training of the military we are now talking about how can we sustain the support for ukraine? it is vital for ukraine and also for us in europe we are facing an existential threat and the ukraine ians are fighting this for us it is a threat to nato in the end. it is crucial to support them so they can actually continue the self defense and win the war we cannot let putin win.

>> the bulgarian prime minister told steve the commitment is as strong as ever. >> it is strong by the countries in nato and the united states and france and germany the main effort should be in our country. we increased the expense for the defense last year which was 2% this year will be above 2% because we know we have to catch up the times are running fast and we have to build up our forces because the saying is if you wand r want to avoid the war, you should be ready for the war. we need to integrate with the other armies around us in the north and south. >> steve spoke to the hungarian president and asked about the country's support for ukraine

and why it may see itself at odds with allies. >> there are controversy positions with hungary and other eu member states our position is the same as that of the other 26 eu member states we condemn russian aggression against ukraine. we are clear on that we are trying to support ukraine. when we speak about the geographic setting of hungary, the direct neighbor to ukraine, we shouldn't forget we have an ethic minority living in the territory of ukraine 150,000 people which is a sizeable number. we are directly hit by the war in ukraine as we are losing lives. i think that the substance is

concerned and our position is the same as that of the european union. it is about the methods and the position may defer we should concentrate on what we have in common than what we don't share the same use >> that is important pto look at what is in common. the ukrainian delegation and i was here on sunday for the meeting and it is crying out for more support diplomatically and militarily and economically as well there is an accusation from some in europe it is hungary holding up that financing as well. how can that gap be bridged with the view of hungary and prime minister orban and the other eu members? >> ukraine needs support that's for sure. we have to further support ukraine. i share that view personally and hungary as a country as well that is the most important i just very much hope we will find the method of how to

support ukraine financially at the next eu council. >> do you think there will be a combination of views mr. orban on one side and the rest on the other side it is not a comfortable position >> it is not about comfortable or not comfortable i'm not in the shoes of the prime minister we should concentrate on the support for ukraine. i also have to add something i had good discussion with the foreign minister of ukraine. i was in kyiv twice last year. i met president zelenskyy several times. i completely understand their position i completely understand they are seeking support from everybody maybe that is what i would do if i were in this shoes it is very difficult to imagine what we would do if we were ukrainians also in the meantime, i'm the

president of hungary we believe in a hapeaceful country. that goes for europe and the nato countries as well what i would like to emphasize, we are not at war. the nato countries are not at war. if the support and we keep further supporting ukraine, we should not get militarily involved in the war. we should avoid the escalation of the war and we shouldn't find ourselves in a third world war 2024 should not be 1914. it should be 2024 which should be the year of peace rather than the year of war. >> maksym timchenko, the ceo of dtek, is joining us today. >> good morning. >> you have been at davos urging a greater flow of funds from private sources and government

forces with foreign government sources. what is the appetite to rebuild and invest in ukraine with companies and projects given the fact your country is in the middle of war? >> first of all, i would like to say that ukraine is in the war ukraine is top of our agenda ukraine is very well taken here. we are held by our partners and government and global companies. of course, we are here to defend our economy and to bring capital and help us keep growing our gdp as it was last year. of course, we need to discover ukraine for people we don't want ukraine to be seen as a war zone where no investment can come at this moment in time we bring our examples.

the tech build from the war. invested in europe we signed new deal in the second phase. we develop our projects outside of ukraine it is the best argument from our side to partners to financial institutions and to energy companies. look at us come to ukraine. see what is happening on the ground take advantage >> you have been talking to potential investors, what kind of interest or support have you received from them and what do you say in terms of where the best opportunities are right now to invest? >> there is interest i can say compared to last year, people realize that ukraine has huge potential, especially to be part of the green deal we had a good panel discussion with prime minister of greece and the commissioner about green

deal and ukraine my point was that green deal is a road map for ukraine to be part of the european union through all our strategies and development for the companies and sector, green deal is in place. ukraine will play very significant role in energy security of the eu and achieving this green deal. we say our partners need to understand how to support this opportunity now and ukraine has great potential with wind and solar and infrastructure we have great work force and educated and skilled we have the ability to become the green energy hub for europe. >> as an energy company

operating in the new world, you have to have the goals is it easy to be distracted now your immediate needs is essentially protecting your creitical infrastructure and on of your power plants suffered damage does this take a top priority? >> absolutely , it is our immediate priority to protect our energy infrastructure and keep lights on and make sure people stay in warmth and light. we have done everything during the last eight months to be prepared for the winter season we restored from last season we built equipment and brought enough coal and gas in the country. you are right, one of our power

stations close to the border of ukraine with istanbul, has been harmed we are working on it we have energy and we have reason to talk about the future. what is limiting our ability now to build our future is capital it is time for financial institutions and form governments to look at private sector we need to demonstrate how to build in the war projects. we have limited access to capital and we need agencies and financial institutions so this capital can come >> how confident are you that you will get the capital you need >> that is the primary purpose p bringing the arguments and business cases and convince our partners >> going into the winter heating

season, you were urging the desperate need for missile defense systems to protect your power plants do you have enough equipment right now? >> i wouldn't say in current circumstances it is enough it is much better than last year i think it is one of the most important factors to protect our infrastructure air defense equipment and train the forces and we see results. >> is there any way you can build resilience or diversify risk away from the line of fire? >> exactly back to the green deal topic this generation and building more wind farms more resilient i bring this example if you take coal-fired power station and compare with woind farms with 50 turbines, which

are harder to hit by missiles than coal this is the good demonstration that builds a new generation with wind farms which is not only part of the green deal. >> we have spoken to a lot of wind farm developers here at davos and they talked about the rising costs are you experiencing the same although you have the goals to have more wind power >> definitely we should be in line with the market and talking about prices or cost we have special circumstances. our cost is cost of capital. that is the concern. how much should we pay for insurance and how much we should pay as an interest for the capital and where we can get the capital. that is what we are working on and that's where we need

financial support from our partners >> the message is clear. thank you for joining us today >> thank you >> maksym timchenko. just ahead, we will have queen maxima speaking with tania breyer next. pick an order print everything you need slap the label on ito the box and it's ready to go our cost for shipping, were cut in half just like that go to shipstation/tv and get 2 months free ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're

sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. switch to shopify and sell smarter at every stage of your business. take full control of your brand with your own custom store. scale faster with tools that let you manage every sale from every channel. and sell more with the best converting checkout on the planet. a lot more. take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify. what is cirkul? cirkul is the fuel you need to take flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul.com.

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welcome back to "street signs. tania breyer is speaking with queen maxima right now let's listen in >> how it impacts safety and affordability and influence. >> what about digital currencies what role does it have in financial influence progress >> we talked about this issue very much. i look at the financial inclusion perspective. is it good for inclusion or not? it has been mixed reviews.

depending on the design. in many cases, mobile money has been much more affordable than having a digital currency. i think realizing or asking yourself what is the problem we need to solve is paramount from the inclusion perspective, if we have alternative things that solve the issues much better then why do we have to bring something new to the table? i think there are situations where people are attracted to digital currencies, but safety is very important and affordability is important and inclusion is important the decide would actually be determined if those three things are accomplished or not. every new thing and we have to look at with those lens. >> your majesty, can i ask where did this passion come from was it in your upbringing to make you determined to do this

>> i was brought up in argentina and seeing how not being formal and what inflation did to middle income and low-income people that actually took me to study economics hoping i could make a change in people's lives through that, i started to focus on how we can actually create systems that really improve people's lives they can actually save for the future and they can actually look from the perspective that my children will have a better future than mine that's what i have been doing and i've been a banker and that's what i know how to do i think this is really a very important piece.

it gives hope to people it makes me passionate >> do your daughters share the same energy and passion to make a difference >> i think they do i think they have seen me battle it they also have seen, you know, inequalities and what it does to people >> we will speak to the rio tinto ceo later on this morning. that is it for this hour stay tuned for more from davos over and out i'm mandy drury.

it is 5:00 a.m. here at cnbc global headquarters and here is your "five@5." we start with the stocks trying to avoid four straight days of losses as a ceo throws cold water on the dovish fed in the year ahead. breaking news. the u.s. launches the fourth strike in yemen. and boeing trying to get over its crisis. regulators say inspections for the initial grounded 737 max 9