welcome to power lunch,. everybody logs had contested brewer, and tyler. max coming, up google warning employees that more job cuts are coming, even if the company has ambitious goals. 2023 started off as a year of efficiency for big tech, especially at meta, but it became the year of a. i, well we'll have much more on

google's plans in 24. >> here's something we don't get to say often on the air. we are seeing signs of progress in washington, d.c.. at least, a plan to do something to tackle the country's 34 trillion dollars in that. we'll talk about why it matters to lawmakers. , first a check on the markets now. the dow is lower hurt somewhat by united health. love a bit more on that later. actually, we could see its passed into positive territory flat. s&p 500 up by a third of a percent, and you've got the nasdaq composite up by eight tenths of a percent, and apple, a big reason for the nasdaq's games. bank of america upgrading that stock from neutral to buy. the firm flagging that a.i. and vision pro are drivers for apples hardware and services businesses. >> chips, the other driver of the nasdaq today, taiwan up nearly some 0.8% after beating on earnings and raising guidance for the current quarter. it's leading a chip rally on wall street today, amd and nvidia hitting all-time highs. when hasn't nvidia hit an all-time high?

it doesn't happen all the time. there you see it right there, 567 82 for nvidia. let's begin, however, with those google job cuts. ceo sundar pichai sending employees a memo titled 2024 priorities, and the year ahead. but tsai has a google has ambitious goals for the year, and will be investing big in them, but also saying that google has to make such choices. code for layoffs. cnbc's.com jennifer elias obtain the memo and she joins us now with more. what does the memo say and why is it so interesting, jennifer? >> that's right, tyler. the memo actually says the company is preparing to define its 2024 goals and it has really big plans for things like a.i.. the memo goes on to say that if employees essentially thought the tech layoffs and job cuts are over, they should think again, because it's going to continue. the memo also said that in order for the company to have the capacity to invest in big

goals that it has for a i, it needs to reallocate sources,, essentially telling employees that they can expect more cuts to come. >> all right, so, that's sort of what we expect. how many cuts are we talking about here? >> the memo didn't specify, but the company based on the last year has been doing rolling cuts at companies various groups company wide. it's hit many different themes at the company. , so it's unclear right now. we'll probably find out as the company kind of files these, so far, we've already seen several rounds in a couple of weeks in january. so, it will continue. we just don't know the scale. -- did not say would be at the same skeleton anyways cuts, which hit 11,000 employees at 6% of the work force. and that it won't hit every team, but it's hard to say at this point. >> hard to say here. the company added lots of

employees in and post pandemic. some people think that they simply over-hired. >> it's true. the company did actually over higher, and there have been a couple of cases where we've reported that executives have admitted to over hiring throughout the pandemic. so, this drastic is, in some ways, related to that as a top over the last year, but you have to think about the morale aspect here, tyler. because google is already at risk of losing its top a.i. talent. many employees have left for competitors, including openai. and those start-ups aren't cutting, and they're moving fast. so, you have to think about the risk of what this poses for employees and what looks attractive to them. you know, in the coming year. >> very interesting. jennifer, thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> let's get more on to what this means for the tech space. we'll be hearing more stories like this? big investments in a.i., but it doesn't include hiring or even

retaining human beings. let's ask alex canter low it's, founder of big technology in a cnbc contributor. alex, great to talk to you today. all, right so first of all, if you want to invest in a.i., in anything a ice the driver in the future, do they have to cut costs somewhere else in order to make that payoff? >> i think they do now. we're not living in a zero interest rate environment anymore. a couple years ago, what they would've done has just tired away in these areas are not worried about where they had to cut previously. but that's gone, and, now they really need to find ways to cut costs so they can invest here, training a, i deploying a.i. is very expensive. i think that's what's happening with google today. >> okay,, so when you look at the numbers that are being cut, is it going to be enough,, or would you expect that this is a trend? we're going to keep seeing unfold, that hears 7000, here's thick thousand, in total, 13,000. is this going to be a near term trend, not just for google, but

for other big tech that is investing in a.i.? >> i think it will be a near term trend, and here's why. you're going through a technological transformation, right? you're almost replacing one way of doing technology with another way of doing technology. when companies are betting so big on this new way, you're going to need different personnel in there. there's going to be places were old personnel just don't fit in the new vision. so, of, course there is a strategic change, but there's also a personnel change. so, when sundar says we're going to have these rolling cuts over 2024, that is something i expect other big tech companies to follow. it's not huge, right? we've seen 1000 people. for every one of them, it's very difficult, but 1000 compared to 12,000, last, year small frugal. , so it's not the wholesale change are gonna see, but this drip, drip, drip, that something we can see throughout big tech this year. >> alex, it's interesting, because i've been working in companies that often played

layoffs. i've actually been part of layoffs before. what happens,, though is there is a spillover effect that even if the workers are retained, and you have your job and your necessary to the functioning of the company, it doesn't feel good. , and there's an impact to company morale. number one, i want to ask about the headwinds there. but, also is there a way they can work around that? i'm just thinking in las vegas, they're getting ready for another strike that line. the culinary workers union sees automation, not a, i automation as a threat to the workers jobs. they said we're not trying to say there can't be automation. but we have to have in the contract some protections for retraining the human beings who will be replaced, and for severance pay so that they are not left high and dry and didn't know it was coming down the pipe. could these big tech companies take a page from the culinary workers union and apply some of the same strategies? >> so first of all, i think we're already starting to see morale issues. i've read some incredible stuff

from current google employees today on linkedin, basically slamming the companies, saying they have no visionary leadership. it's astonishing what's happened within the current google employee base. , so that is a problem. and what you point out about how you manage these transitions is spot on. because that's where leadership comes in. do you commit first of all, site we're going through this and we don't know where it's going to end and we don't fully wear or going? but we have to be on top of this analogy? that's a terrible strategy. do you come in and articulate a vision and say we're going to be leaner, but point everyone towards a direction to make sense on what's happening? that's what the company needs to do. and finally, when it comes to re-scaling, the company that i've seen, the big tech companies have started that the best in these transitions, they don't put in a.i. technology and fire people. they say lucky, we're good enough to be here yesterday, inundation of technology. that the way that take what we do best and put it to play for our next big move and competitive situation?

and i think the companies that do that well and articulate that well and think through that will are going to be in really good shape, and i honestly with google right, now i think i have some questions on where they're going with some of these moves. >> let's talk a little bit about the competitive situation that conference google >> reporter:. i curate, go a.i. and chatgpt were the leading horses in this game, and that google had gotten off on the wrong foot here. have they closed the gap? and about their latest suite of products, including chairman, i and are they closer or have they surpassed in performance and quality, their competitors in a i? >> so, first, for google, the big sigh of relief is a i have not taken over search get. people are still searching with google. they are not searching with being. they might be searching a little bit with chatgpt, but we haven't seen a plummeting of the share that google is using in search. so, i think that's already a

good moment for google. now, when it comes to the current suite of eye products, the consumer facing things, things like chatgpt and being and even perplexed the a.i., my personal perspective here is they are blowing google's barn out of the water, and google's barn, which -- as a lot of room to go. there, now when it comes to -- >> in terms of quality of the response you get, in terms of the quality of the responses you get? >> yeah. go ahead. >> 100%. i don't think the quality is, there and i think you're starting to see, now you're seeing companies like perplexity take them on, and that's a real issue for google i think they're going to need better responses. they're the trying with generative search, but they don't want to put everything. there may have something to lose, for the other stones. that is sort of hamstring them a bit. not chairmen that you mentioned, the enterprise model, you, know that is something that people are starting to see. it might challenge openai's gpt-4, and openai's gpt-4, i don't know if it will be in the industry standard forever. at least the models, because you have somebody coming in, whether it's gemini, whether

that's anthropic, which google has invested, and or any of the other. so, google now at least has a seat at the table when it comes to the foundational model question. >> if you are looking at the attempt to control costs where you can, so you can invest in a.i., and this is the decision that google and others are making, what does that mean for the smaller companies that are trying to at least carve out a piece of the pie for themselves? >> the good news, is for the smaller companies, they don't have these legacy companies. things like businesses that they need to prop up. , like amazon, for instance, they say it's always take one, keep investing us if you're a start-up, because i have this legacy business they need to prop up. and they have to remind themselves, when you're a start-up, you don't have that problem. so, you're in good shape there. however, this is extremely costly. so, what you're seeing with the biggest start-ups here, whether that's openai or anthropic, they're taking and lots of money from big tech, because to be honest, the gazes can

support. it they need the computing power. they need the money from big tech companies, and so even if the start-ups succeed, it's going to end up going back to the big tech companies bottom line at the end of the day. >> alex, a really fascinating conversation. >> very interesting. , yes indeed. >> alex kanter would. the 34 trillion dollar national debt is quick to build up, by all accounts, it will be very slow, very long time, before it's payback, if ever. so, how could washington ever vote to solve its that problem? we're going to solve it. [laughter] we're going to freaking solve it right here, at 2:15 pm! >> just put tyler on it. tyler and tessa. we can do. it >> will tackle. that we're gonna solve it, next. with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt.

- after military service, you bring a lot back to civilian life. leadership skills. technical ability. and a drive to serve in new ways. syracuse university's d'aniello institute for veterans and military families has empowered more than 200,000 veterans

to serve their communities and their careers. from professional certifications, to job training, to help navigating programs and services, we give veterans access to support from anywhere in the world. welcome back. news today on a bill in congress to keep the government open, and i am just finally, there seems to be attention being paid to a huge problem. emily wilkins is in d.c. with the details. is it just that they think here, emily, that finally, they see the debt and the deficit as a problem? >> i think there's really a lot of factors that go into here at play. i mean, one of the big things is a lot of the stuff that drives the data and that deficit, two thirds of federal spending, it's not the stuff congress has to worry about approving every year. right, now we are just watching the senate floor live. they have passed the 60 vote

threshold needed for them to pass that stopgap measure that will fund part of the government until march 1st, and part of it until march 8th. then, we are expecting that piece of legislation to go to the house this afternoon. they're going to vote on it. so, it looks, like at this, point a shutdown will be averted. at least, for a couple of months. but all of this hand wringing really only deals with about one third of the federal government spends. that's another two third was a subject of a house panel today that has come up with a proposed commission to look at that 34 trillion dollars in that. and really addresses, and a lot of that comes from a different couple sources. number one is just the interest of the government is currently paying on that. that amount has almost doubled in the last three years. of course, the other big thing are these mandatory programs. these very key programs, things like social security, things like medicaid, things like medicare. they have been ballooning. they are, of, course important programs for a lot of americans. but they're also part of the reason why our death is as

large as it is. a house budget chairman jody arlington said today in his opening remarks for the hearing that part of the reason that they really need to address this right now it's because of what happened just the other month with -- downgrading the uss credit rating, saying a key part of that was because congress doesn't have solutions for how to go forward. >> ball central to the concern in their downgrade was the lack of confidence that united states congress would do anything to address it meaningful. they thought the current hyper partisan climate, broken process, would not lend itself to us coming together to create a medium to long term fiscal plan. >> now, where there's bipartisan consent about the need to address that, changes the programs like social security is really a third rail furlong makers in both parties. even today at the hearing, it

was interrupted by protesters claiming that such a commission would kill social security, even though members do want to see the social security program continue. lawmakers are hoping that the plans commission could be passed with the federal spending bills in march. assuming, of course, that congress is able to finish the job and actually pass those bills without yet another stopgap measure. >> and emily, thank you very much. we appreciate the reporting there. we're going to solve that problem, i promise. right now, right here, one of our next guest says there's no evidence that that is creating any serious problems. well, then solved, okay? the other says it's an issue, but he's seeing an interesting solution. that will be a i. joining us now, dean baker, economist and co-director of the center for economic and policy research. and james pethokoukis, economic policy analyst at the american enterprise institute and the cnbc contributor. welcome, good to have you both here. james, the last time there was such a commission, it was called simpson bowls. it seems to me to make a lot of sense, a lot of what they came

up with was sensible. but congress did nothing. why should we expect anything different this time? >> i mean, i wouldn't. i wouldn't. listen, if the problem is a plan, we have the plan from simpson bowls. we have think tanks, including my own, scattered across washington, d.c., coming up with plans. that's not the problem. the problem is. will i think it's quite telling that this year marks the 30th anniversary of the last time the federal government really got serious about debt and deficits. that was during the clinton administration, and why did they do that? remember, we had the famous james cargo quote about bonds vigilantes? they got serious because they believed markets were serious about debt and deficits. they're worried interest rates were rising for that reason. that perception is what drove action. and so, politicians today think markets have had enough, and

unless they cut the debt, interest rates are going to go up, and this whole thing is gonna collapse, they're not gonna do anything of substance. particularly, on entitlements. >> dean, is the problem not a problem? >> it's not a problem. i mean, i've been around a long time, just like james. i remember the 1990s. they were celebrating. they got the deficit down, we had surpluses for three years, they were celebrating. they got interest rates, long term interest rate fell below 5%. big celebration. well, it's about 4% today. i've checked the latest number. but interest rates aren't a problem, inflation has gone down, that's not a problem. you know, we are looking for problems. james is waiting for markets to get really upset, so then we can say it's a big problem. >> not going to happen. so, then -- >> then it would be a big problem. >> we have real problems summary about. >> but isn't it concerning, dean, that so much of our expenditure, i think it's going to be, if it's not already, the largest line item, apart from

social security and medicare, is the largest expenditure in the federal government, and that is paying interest on that that has been run up by generations of congress's and administrations over the years? and therefore, costs of not to be able to spend maybe on the kinds of things that we ideally might like to spent on today or in the future? >> i'll make it to, gets to an afferent of gdp, off the check the exact number. we were around three and a half percent tpp in the stress back in the 90s, and i'm old enough to remember. 90s was a really good decade, great, growth low unemployment of the last four years of the decade. it will be very suspend that, but that's just not that big deal. i'll have another point here that really never gets mentioned. just bizarre to me. government pays for things by paying for them directly. that's one way. the other way we often pay for things is granting patent and copyright monopolies, just to take the most visible example.

drugs are cheap. the reason they're expensive is because the government gives them an output. so, will spend over 600 billion, about 646, 656 billion on drugs. a car becomes less on the hundred million if the government hadn't given the patent office. nobody even talked about that! that's 500 million a year! that's almost as much as the interest on that right there. no one even talks about that! so, if we are serious, let's look at the box on the table, but we're not doing it. >> you want to see pushback? real quick, start trying to tell the pharmaceutical companies who are spending big on research that they don't have any chance to make big money on those risky endeavors? that would be a good way to do it. >> research. they spent over 100 million a year. i know that. at the government spends about 60 billion a year on biomedical research and other agencies. -- >> you know, the interesting thing, when we're talking about whether there's a will, back to, this is that we can slice and dice all the ways our

government is wasteful, that the victim of fraud, and abuse, there's lots of those. and as journalists. we cover, it right? but i'm curious about the will. if you shut down the government, jim, if you have an impact on military members and veterans and our grandmas and grandpas, then, isn't there a political backlash for these lawmakers for not doing something? i'm always surprised there is not more to be held to account on whether it's border issues are the deficits, if you don't like something, why aren't we holding our elective representatives to task? >> because people say they are concerned about it, but they do not want any actions taken that they think harm them, whether it's higher taxes, whether it's an adjustment to entitlement benefits, anything. that's why i'm saying that

until we get a black monday, a black tuesday, black thursday, black friday, when markets react, congress won't act, now, it would be better to do that beforehand, because any change you make today will be a lot more gradual than changes we make tomorrow. and you know, we are talking about patents and things, unless you are counting another a.i. driven productivity boom like we saw also in the 90s, i hope. so that would be great. that would make the problems a lot less, but well i hope that happens, i would not count on. it when i would count on now is us taking the kinds of measures for these reforms before markets forces do. but i am skeptical about that action forcing mechanism. it won't happen. >> james, i can ask you one final question, then let dean get the final word. what about's contention that as a percentage of gdp, the amount of money that we spend on interest is not all that material, and in, fact was a

sigh or higher in the 90s, a period of prosperity, so, we really shouldn't worry about what i suggested was a very worrisome thing, and that is we are spending 100 billion or 900 billion to pay interest on our debts? >> to address that, i think one, that is money we don't have for other things. to, when it was higher, when it was higher back in the early 90s, that's when people suddenly got very concerned about the deficit. so, it's going up,, so one can see a situation where people will become more concerned, as what we spend, our interest goes up. and also again during the 90s, we were very lucky. we had an amazing tech boom. again, i hope it happens. i think it will happen. i wouldn't count on that happens, but again, to be dismissive now because we don't see the impact that this moment, i think it's extremely shortsighted. >> dean let me give you the last word, and think that's a jump ball and go where you want it. but one thing of interest to me

is in my recollection, and it is imperfect, the older i get, the last perfect the becomes, but in my recollection, when there have been government shutdowns in the, past we shut down portions of the government, but never to my recall, have social security recipients not received a check on time, never have military members not receive the paycheck on time, and there are probably other examples where we've created big carveouts so that the large constituencies represented by seniors, represented by military and the families, by pensioners, who are dependent on veterans benefits, so, those constituencies are not aroused and won't take it out of the elected officials. am i right or wrong? >> you heard about that, and i have to, say i frankly think that's a good thing. and i want to take people social security check away from them. i will say, there's another side of this story, and president biden remembers this. well we actually did a lot to

reduce the deficit back in 2:11, 2:12, 2:13. we did have a shut down, and there were big concessions made, and the rows more deficit reduction. it took us a decade to get that -- we got back to four point at this time in about a year, and to my mind, that is a huge deal. there's quite a difference between having 3.6, 3.7% unemployment and having 6% unemployment. you've got to tell me, you got deficit reduction, savings on interest, to make up for that. millions of people have jobs who want otherwise. that's a big deal. >> jean baker, james pethokoukis, thank you, gentlemen. after the break, you cannot lower following a major health insurance warning and the infection spreading to revel stocks in the space. we have more space, ahead.

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empower what's next. a force to be reckon with. no, not you saquon. hm? you! your business bank account with quickbooks money, now earns 5% apy. 5% apy? that's new! yup, that's how you business differently. well like her, launch. everybody should be that health accounted for nearly all of the dow's losses today, even falling in sympathy if a company can have sympathy, with another company. in sympathy with humana, following a warning. let's get to bertha coombs now for the bus on h u m bertha. >> yeah, he mannequin a lot of

collateral damage. effectively, humana it's now lowering its 2023 full year outlook, and is blaming it on the theme we've heard from all of the medicare insurers. high medical costs. they are warning that they are fourth quarter medical loss ratio, that is the percentage of premium that is spent on medical costs, will top 91%. that's 240 basis points above what analysts were looking for, and as a note, ensures ml ours rarely top 89%. that is usually the highest. you mandelblit it on high inpatient costs, as well as outpatient surgeries echoing what we heard from united health last week, when it reported fourth quarter results. but unlike you and h, humana says this is going to be a two dollar hit to full year 2023 earnings. it's now lowering it's adjusted earnings outlook for the full year to $26.09. now, on top of, that humana

also warning that saw higher attrition and lower new member growth during the recent medicare open enrollment season, and it's now projecting 2020 for medicare membership growth of just 1.8%. which is the low what's people are expecting for the industry average. so contessa, you could say if it weren't for any bad news today, humana would have no news at all. >> all right, for, thank you. we are seeing the stock just plummeting. natural gas is also falling sharply. once again, today, down nearly 20% this week. even though temperatures are freezing across much of the country, but well, period, it's cold everywhere. stevens, a resident forecaster, as well as oil and energy expert, joins us. >> i'm back with more about the weather. so, it may feel like it's very cold, and it is very cold. we are over the hump. it is very cold, but we really need to look back once again to december to explain what's going on here. so, we have a chart showing the

heating degree days. you could see there in december, december was officially the warmest on record since records began in 1854 north america and south america. so, you can see the ten year average, that's orange line, and where we were in december. so, that really really cut demand for natural gas. so, right now, while demand is actually at a record, we are still working through that extra supply, and that's why we're not seeing a response in the crisis. okay, so we have that, and moving over to one big mover of the day, which is plug power. so, the hydrogen fuel still make, or that stock down 15%, 14%, after announcing one billion, up to one billion dollar at the market equity raise yesterday after the closing bell. this is just the latest challenge for a company that has based lot of headwinds. they keep pushing out, they're georgia hydrogen facility, they issued that goingconcern, warning back in november. they have yet to make this hydrogen story a reality. >> just so you know, what happens is if you come on and you do a great job of

explaining how the weather affects crisis, the next thing you know, you are out in the middle of covering a hurricane. just say. >> alrighty, folks. thanks. let's get to kate rogers now for a cnbc news update. hi,. kate >> hike, tyler. the judge overseeing donald trump's federal election interference case rejected trump's request to hold a special counsel jack smith in contempt. trump's legal team argued smith continue to file motions in the case, even that's the two sides are waiting to hear the result of trump's presidential immunity appeals. however, the judge did agree smith's filings were putting a burden on trump,, so she is now requiring both parties to seek her permission before filing anymore motions. firefighters in washington, d.c., say they safely evacuated everyone on a city walk this morning, just minutes before a building exploded from a gas leak. that included 16 children who were in daycare next door. the class leveled one building had damaged two others in the area. and some 90,000 nato troops are set to participate in the military alliances largest

exercise since the cold war. the drills will rehearse nato's response in europe to a potential conflict, with a quote near peer adversary. the alliance didn't mention russia by name, but strategic documents call moscow the most direct threat to nato member security. tyler, back over to do. >> all right, kate, thank you very much. coming up, fending off the competition despite now having more rivals in the space, fanduel not losing as much market share is previously feared. those details are further ahead. we will be back. in the about the length of an nfl ween ekd.

welcome back to power lunch, everybody. the math that getting a boost from apple today, on track to a race 2024 losses so far. but given the recent market bounce, our next guest calls turns of more downside risk, especially if things don't go exactly as the market is hoping. joining us now is carl farmer, portfolio manager with rockland trust. carl, welcome. what is the market mostly hoping for, and what are you most worried that it may not receive? >> hey, thanks for having me on today. >> you're welcome.

>> so, what we're looking at here is the big story has been around the optimism that the feds battle against inflation has been won. if you look at the fed dot to plot, indicated there will be three cuts later this year, and the bomb markets already priced them at more than six. so with earnings growth potential for 4 to 6 this year, that might be too high. 20 times earnings for the market, the investors really need to see results. so, if you have a look at those earnings estimates, there still were on a shade being if i slower, and slowing inflation doesn't necessarily mean costs are falling, just not rising as fast. we even saw that with the man a mentioned earlier today with the anticipation of medical cost being a little greater. that 20 times the s&p ruling that went confidence in those future earnings before moving higher. so, >> -- >> so the three things that you're worried about are that prices are high, rates may not come down as much as they are anticipated to buy the market, and third, that earnings may

not come in where people think they would? >> correct. on the bright side, the consumer spent very resilient. this may be the most anticipated recession that did not appear. kind of the old adage, if you ask three economists, still get five predictions? one of those predictions had a soft landing in the forecast, so, from what we've seen so far, the consumer's been able to hold things. up, so again, as long as they could keep delivering on earnings, we may be able to justify the move we had. >> it's consumer strength part of the reason why you would pick starbucks as an investment? >> that and the fact that really didn't participate in the rally. there were some instances that china wasn't going as well as they thought, but kind of the old thing, big trouble in little china? that is 10% of our over all revenues, and they're fixing the issues. the company guidance a five to 7% comes, and the storage expansion they had entire kit is achievable. it's trading at less than market multiple for better earnings, that's why we like starbucks here. >> why do you like pizza? >> so, the set is a little

different. it kind of fits in with a consumer resilience thread that in the face of inflation, they are still spending. payment services has been as consistent in areas one could find. and it's not cheap, but you pay a premium multiple for a premium business. here >> karl, it's great to talk to. you think for sharing your insight with us. >> next we have. >> meatballs could lead to the rice day is more that it goes into the economy is holding up, category. rick santelli is tracking the action for us in chicago, hello, rick. >> hi, contessa! indeed, 8:30 eastern this morning, watching and they fill job with claims gets ever so close to levels we haven't seen since the late 1960s! now, as you look at charts of two year, ten year, and third year over two weeks, watch the left side and the right side. because with two years, they're out of balance. as we move down the curve, that right side moves higher. so, you get to the longest maturity 30 gear bones, where your really launching on the

right side of those charts versus the left side. what does that mean? i'll tell you what it means. it means long dated interest rates continue to form, and they're firming at a rather rapid pace. and for many other reasons that our last guest, jean baker, did not agree with, but market participants see the ugliness of servicing that debt. they see the improbability to be able to continue to pay potentially trillions of dollars to service that, and it's starting to show up in every place you would expect. five-year break, evens they are hovering a bit below 2:30. two month high. as you look at a ten-year break evens, a bit above 2:30. two months highs, if he were to look at 30-year break-even, pretty much same price scenario. yield scenario, they are hovering around 2:34. so, we see they are firming up. now granted, these are not huge, aggressive levels, but it continues to push through. remember, all we keep talking about is lower interest rates. well, maybe the fed may lower

interest rates, but that certainly doesn't mean mr. mark it on, the long, and it's going to go along with the program. contessa? back to you. >> rick santelli, thank, you sir. we talked at the top of the show about layoffs and big tech, and the polymer of cbc dot com has news of new layoffs at amazon. and he joins us now. what do you, have any? >> hey there, thanks for having me. yeah, the latest that amazon is cutting fewer than 5% of its by with prime unit, which is the service that essentially brings the prime badge to sites off of amazon. it's a program they've been growing pretty steadily over the past year, but it's not immune to the broader cuts that are happening at amazon. we saw layoffs in other divisions last week, and the cuts are just going to continue, it looks like. >> okay, any polymer, we can read more about that on cnbc that come. appreciate that. coming up, game on shares of fanduel's uk parent, clutter surging. ahead of a planned listing here in the stas.

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parent a flutter have soared today, look at. that up 15% in european trading after releasing fourth quarter results that showed u.s. gaming revenue growth up 26% year on year. now, the results missed wall street expectations and in large part because customers one. they won big on games with surprise and then last fall. a 343 impact in the quarter, and a drag on margins. but there was big growth for fanduel in monthly players, and fanduel is maintaining its status as the nation's leading sportsbook. 51% market share, based on net revenues. grabbing 5% more market share year on year, and i gaming. that's online casino games. that puts it in second place. but really, this is a battle between draftkings and fanduel. it's one of the reason my fanduel won't, flutter, wants to list here in the u.s.. >> and where does espn's betting and the shortest fit in

the standings? >> they launched in mid november, and in mid november and december, for, instance we just got pennsylvania's december mobile betting numbers. it looks like espn bets basically doubled their market share in pennsylvania, but it looks like they're taking that market share from draft kings. fanduel was still able to grow its market share in pennsylvania. they've done that in other places as well. >> if i have one of these, draft kings or fanduel on my phone now, do i need another? >> it depends on how avid of a sports better you are. if you want to chase promotions, , then you would have multiple platforms on there. but i think a lot of the loyalty is coming from ease of use, how fast you are getting your deposit, and how easy you find it to use. >> interesting how espn is deploying some of its on air talent to do ads for their bets platform. they're betting platform. >> and really, they have nothing to do with the operation of the sportsbook. it's just the branding.

>> it's the branding on top of it. >> exactly. pen is paying espn a big fee for the licensing rights. >> yes, they are. i bet they are. alrighty, still ahead, falling out of fashion? shares of birkenstock sinking. i forgot to wear mine today. warning for europe and it will remain under pressure as it embarks on the global expansion. will trade it, birkenstock. >> with woolly socks. >> -- open toes. you don't want to see that. we'll be back.

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time now for three stock lunch. big movers of the day here with our trades. he's president of mjp wealth advisers. first, it's apple getting an upgrade for a buy calling it more than 20% upside over the next year. your thoughts on apple, brian, welcome, by the way. >> thanks, tyler, believe it or not, we're going to say apple is

a hold. when i look at this personally for myself as an investor, i recognize apple has a growing services business, which really helps us provide stability with the business model. at the same point in time, we know innovation has been an issue for hardware. and we heard from bank of america today, it's a welcomed upgrade, but i think we need to hear more from management over the next couple of weeks on what type of innovation are coming with artificial intelligence, with their phones, as well as the division pro. and so i think right now just considering the backdrop. a hold right now might make sense, tyler. >> all right. up next, united health shares that are falling along with humana today as they warn of a cost hit from rising number of surgeries. what do you think, brian? does it make you feel ill or are you feeling good about it? >> well, thank you, contessa. i think on this one, actually i would feel more comfortable in saying this one is a buy. i'll tell you because we have the demographic trends going on in the u.s. where we know we

have an aging population. people are retiring more and more every day. and there seems to still be a demand obviously for services and products that unh provides to the marketplace. but at the same point in time historically, we've had these concerns about medical costs and concerns coming from other competitors in this space. unh has been able to work through the trends. the other point i'll make, we're moving into a period of economic uncertainty. healthcare stocks are really something that helped us weather through that storm and for a slowing economy. and the stock has appreciated over 7%. i think there are still some upsides to go. finally, a look at birkenstock as they disappoint investors with their first post ipo. >> and in this one, i'm going

with a sell. and we are still in a high interest rate environment. when you consider the forward key of this stock and around 40 or so and also the fact that it has been public going back to october, then we need to hear more and considering it is tied to consumer spending and that there are some concerns in moving forward. and consider some of the things that are out there of a concern. >> i would like to see more track record there as the public company. thank you very much, brian. brian vendig. still ahead passive makes perfect. the management style that has made grounds for years. we'll discuss it and much remo in closing time next.

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5g network can do for your business. it's odd how in an instant things can transform. slipping out of balance into freefall. (the stock market is now down 23%). this is happening people. where there are so few certainties... (laughing) look around you. you deserve to know. as we navigate a future unknown. i'm glad i found stability amidst it all. gold. standing the test of time. . here we go. fewer than two minutes left in the show. let's get right to it. passive investing has overtaken wall street according to morning star. etfs and other passively managed funds reached a combined

$13.29 trillion as to the end of september. now it's not that it is just a big deal among the retail traders, whatever. in all assets, it's become the go to? >> and it is not just flows. it flows into the index products that have been outstripping them for a long time. but the total amount of capital in them has exceeded it. my view is that it is hard to beat an index product as a core holding. it's okay if you want to have managed accounts also, but at core, they ought to be the index. why not? and average beats most. most of the time. >> good advice. newly approved bitcoin efts, they pulled in a net of $871 million of in flows. that's according to the financial times and data from coin shares. they led the way with $723 million worth of those in flows. that's a big, big market share.

. >> and apparently speaking of inflows and outflows when they converted bitcoin. >> and we are going to finish solving the national debt issue, but we ran out of time. all i have to say is thanks for watching power lunch. >> closing bell now. and welcome to closing bill, i'm michael santoli in for scott wapner. we begin this make or break hour with stocks supporting a wobbly take. you see s&p up three quarters. again largely on some of the big tech names. and they have the nasdaq up again in the lead. well unsure what to do with a run of a pretty solid data that will be near their highs. getting a lift