or death and nearly as tough to talk about as sex. it's tuesday, february 27th. two moredays to go in february. "squawk box" begins right now. good morning. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc. we are live from the nasdaq market site in times square. i'm andrew ross sorkin along with joe kernen. becky is off today. look at u.s. equities. three and a half hours set to go. we are looking set to open higher. dow up 24. nasdaq up 42. s&p up 5 points. treasury yields with the ten-year yield and two-year yield. ten-year yield at 4.270. the two-year yield at 4.69.

joe, bitcoin. price of bitcoin hitting the highest level in two years yesterday. we are sitting right now at $56,529. shares of cava are higher. fourth quarter sales rising 11%. the company citing the increase of traffic for most of that with the prices and popularity of premium menu items. revenue beating estimates. the release wasn't expected until today. we expected that after the closing bell. news outlets published a story on cava yesterday afternoon bringing all of this news to us early. lowe's is out. i tried to get a quote and there is a big spread with the big and

ask. if we get a determination where it is trading. i don't know if that is a real trade. the numbers on face value you look good. 1.77 is what the company reported. i think that is a clean number over $1.68 as the estimate. down from last year as far as year over year results. the estimate for revenue was $18.45 billion. the company reported $18.681 billion. for the current fiscal year, i'm trying to see how the guidance for the entire company is below. it looks like the street was below $13. the company is now saying $12 to $12.30. let's bring in brian nagel for oppenheimer. is that a lower forecast or have

they given a full-year forecast, brian? >> good morning, joe. i actually have not. i was listen to your comments. i have not seen the results. i'm going off what you said. i think that's right. what that means is for the current fiscal year, lowe's is guiding below estimates. >> sales, too? 84 to 85 for the full-year sales and estimate was 86.23. as i thought, that first -- i don't know what that is on the right side of the chart. i think that is down $2. what were you expecting here, brian? we had you on not too long ago talking about home depot. comp sales now for fiscal 2024

is down 2% to 3% for the company. is that what you thought the company was planning? >> that is about right. going back to the conversation we had last week with home depot, what this is is another softish report from the leading home improvement retailer. this case is lowe's and last week was home depot. this is indicative of the back drop for home improvement which is challenging. i'll say this for lowe's as well as home depot. these companies are managing this drop well. i'm watching the screen as lowe's is popping 3% pre-market. what investors are saying is they are increasingly looking through the fundamental weakness toward the back half of fiscal 2024 and when home improvement should strengthen as rates

moderate. lowe's and home depot are well run businesses and managed well and generating tons of cash. for the now last five or six quarters, they have been in the post-covid soft spot or reset. given the guidance, it will persist into 2024. the market is increasingly looking at restrengthening results as rates likely ho moderate. >> this is reminding me of the last six months. home depot and lowe's both sold off a lot. it was uncharacteristic of home depot. the results, the fundamentals did not improve much with home depot, but the stock has been on a tear. if we look at the longer-term charts, they are both near highs. both near 52-week highs. they gained back all of the

weakness we saw. it is so hard to see on something like that. you can see it over on the very right-hand side of that in late 2023 when it sold off. now, as you say, these are about where the results were expected to be. people seem to be looking through it to whatever positives are going to happen near term or immediate term, let's say. >> that's right. i want to be clear. i love talking on your show about these two names. make sure it is clear to the audience here. these are great companies. over any length of time, home depot and lowe's are well positioned. it wasn't that long ago that my team and i downgraded lowe's and home depot on the idea of the near-term euphoria.

we think this may be a bit opt optimist. as i think how 2024 plays out here, the fundamental softness we have seen could persist longer. i'm not an economist or rate expert. it would not surprise me if rates stay higher for longer, that is the house view, and that is the narrative for the broader market and particularly these names. that is when you see the stocks get under pressure. right now, the valuations for lowe's and home depot are at the top end. there is a decent amount of optimism here. i have seen it movie before. the market is looking through it until they are knocked. that is where the stocks could reset lower he. >> okay, brian. we have macy's. i know that's thought your thing. that is coming at 7:00. we will get an idea. they may not as well be

retailers. they they are not similar. we will watch for that one. brian nagel, thanks for being here. >> thank you. sharon's coming on in a second. >> we have to talk about it. >> sex i'll talk about all day long. you know what i don't like talking about? >> yeah. this is getting awkward quickly. >> are you worried about sex? >> this is a morning show. 6:08 in the morning. >> sharon is coming on in a couple of seconds. blame her. i'm referencing what we said at the top. people would rather talk about death than talk about their personal finances. >> you added the other part. >> it was in the prompter. except for sex. >> you added. >> i didn't add. it was from the prompter. would you rather talk about death or sex? is that the same thing to you?

on today's "squawk planner." we have more from lowe's and macy's. e-bay reports after today's closing bell. i cannot have these conversations. >> sharon is coming on. get your thoughts together. i don't want you to be tongue tied when we have the discussion. >> it is difficult. a lot of tongue tied. my tongue is tied. >> don't do that. on the data front, we get durable goods orders at 8:30 a.m. eastern time. k shiller home prices at 9:00 a.m. in washington, the top congressional leaders are meeting with president biden at the white house today in the effort to avert a partial government shutdown after midnight on friday. >> who is in charge of memes at this company? >> the president will address his request for billions of dollars in aid for ukraine and

israel. i'm out of here. we have to go to break. you started it. exxon could potentially play spoiler tochevron to buy hess. how it all could play out. that's next. and we have former house speaker kevin mccarthy to talk about the memes with lawmakers and so much more. "squawk box" returns after this. >> announcer: this cnbc program is sponsored by baird. visit bairddifference.com. ends . we need to scale with customer demand... in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon. their solution for us? a private 5g network. (ella) we now get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) now we're even smarter and ready for what's next. (vo) achieve enterprise intelligence. it's your vision, it's your verizon. i could use a little help.

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welcome back to "squawk box." exxon could spoil the chevron deal to purchase hess for $53 billion. chevron is warning investors the deal could be in jeopardy. at issue is exxon claims it should have the right of first refusal over the deal with hess because hess owns 45% of the venture in guyana. we have the energy and research analyst at truist securities. a wrinkle or a big twist, maybe, but a twist you would imagined the players would have known about, neal. >> good morning, andrew. thanks for having me. you are right. it is very difficult to make a call today whether chevron or

exxon will prevail. the terms were signed a decade ago. i don't know if the rights exist. to make the call today will be very difficult. you know, to see which one is exxon stands on here. >> neal, was this jv and the terms widely understood by the investment public or inside the companies or did the lawyers miss it or did they say it was fuzzy and see how far we can go? >> what sounds like what was listed yesterday, chevron and hess said it was clear the terms of the joa,the way they read it. i thought the part i found odd is the timing that lapsed between when this was initially

announced and now exxon making a call that there is parts whether the preemptive rights were as chevron read those. the timing is ambiguous. it shows me, again, the problem of doing a deal like this versus the other domestic deals. >> we have to get into the business of handicapping whether the deal in the current form happens and if it doesn't happen, what happens after that? >> i still think there is very high chance that chevron ends up with this and it should. if they deem the joa doesn't hold up afor the preemptive ri rights, they will not let exxon or cnooc buy it.

i don't cover hess. see how that stock will continue to progress. it would be interesting. i don't think exxon or cnooc will get it. >> is there a payoff that could happen? could exxon extract a payment for all this? >> i think absolutely. i think to your point we know that chevron has a 30% stake with x-amount of oil in the ground. they are on to the 40fourth legf the massive play. they have a number in mind. exxon or cnooc would say what will it take for the 30% and roll it up to the two of them. you are absolutely right. there is wiggle room here, i'm sure. i can't imagine the is chevron lawyers would go down this road if there was an issue of the

preemptive rights converting over. >> neal, we appreciate the insight on all this. i'm sure we will watch and talk to you about it as it plays out. thanks. >> thank you. fr coming up, are you ready? >> a personal topic. >> what is tougher to talk about? personal finances or -- read that. >> your sex life. >> thank you. survey data, not me. sharon. not me. ur succe earn and keep trust. build and maintain financial strength and stability. deliver solutions that meet complex needs. do right by customers, clients, and policyholders, always. repeat daily for over one hundred and seventy years. massmutual. partnering with financial professionals, benefits brokers, and institutions. ♪

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finds discussing percentage finance is harder than talking about religion or politics or death. almost as hard. >> not on this network. >> talking about money. we talk about it a lot. the other stuff is hard for some people. talking about money is what senior cnbc personal finance correspondent sharon epperson does best. sharon, take it away. >> joe, we're talking about a wells fargo study. they did a deep dive into how people feel about money surveying over 3,000 adults. 1,800 women and 1,600 men. when asked about the difficulty of talking about sex over finances, 47% say having an open conversation about money is more challenging than romantic life. half of women considered it a private topic. women are also more likely to

say they don't want to talk about money because they feel they may be judged. age made a difference, too. more than half of younger women say feeling judged avoids them from talking about money. financial advisers and wealth managers take is to think about how you frame conversations with clients so men and women feel they have control over their choices and not made to feel like their ideas are wrong. >> when it comes to money and investing, we hear this all the time. people feel like there are stupid questions. there are no stupid questions when it comes to that. we all need to come to money where we are on our terms psychologically and literally so we can make the most of it. >> large majority of people say they had a clear picture of what they want to do with their money, almost half report having no more than vague financial strategies to reach goals. women are more likely than men

to say the strategy is vague or they don't have one. m for more on women and wealth, join me at the free virtual event to bring together experts with advice to set you up for success. scan the qr code to register or go to cnbc.com/women. joe. >> did the study look into where people went to go for financial adv advice? >> they go to friends more than financial advisers. financial advisers are not as great as what they were doing with their friends. a small percentage, but significant percentages, are going to financial influencers and bloggers. >> i still feel like we can help here. >> absolutely. >> we do this how many hours a

day? i don't know. we do it a lot. 12 to 15 hours a day? >> we do it a lot. >> live programming? >> yeah. talking about money. almost 24 hours. >> from 5:00 a.m. and include the international sncnbc, 24 hos a day. >> i'm always talking about money. i go home and talk about money. parents. here. >> such an uncouth topic. >> when you look at tv or you are streaming stuff, people are talking about everything but money. you know, it is so open to talk about romantic life and sex, but not to talk about money. >> right. >> that's weird. i remember when i was younger and i would look at the cover of "cosmo" and see the subject matter. that's on a magazine stand. screaming this crazy stuff. not column, if you are lucky.

>> who was doing "cosmo" that pushed the envelope? i don't know. thank you, sharon. you said blame me, too, at 6:19. i didn't do anything, except respond. thank you. andrew. >> i remember her so well. helen gurley brown. >> yes. she revolutionized women's magazines. >> what you put on the kocover. when we come back, we will talk about the high stakes between president biden and the big four lawmakers at the white house. that is happening today. later, surge pricing at wendy's? yeah. we will tell you why your burger may cost more depending on when you order it. as we head to break, here is the look at the s&p 500 winners and losers.

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good morning. welcome back to "squawk box" live from the nasdaq market site in it times square. there is green on the screen, but nothing too significant or c substantial at this point. nasdaq is up 30 this morning. following a win for former president trump in south carolina, a biden versus trump election now appears to be the most likely with trump tax cuts set to exhipire and the candidas economic messages may be the deciding factor in the election. joining us now is steve mcmahon. he has worked with three presidential campaigns. we also have mark short who su served as chief of staff.

gk to both of you. we talked about the economic impact. people always say it is the wallet. follow the money. i start with you, steve. a question that is not -- what? >> you were never chief of staff to vice president biden, marc? >> no, vice president pence. >> that's what i thought. i thought it was pence. >> pence, biden. i know what it said. >> thank you for helping. >> marc was like i don't know. >> i don't remember that. >> i'm slipping a little, but i think i would have remembered that. >> steve, here's the question. there are the numbers which is to say i think it is probably fair to say the economy looks pretty good from where we are right now and there is the question of how people feel. >> right. >> what do you think about the distinction between those two

and how the issues are articulated on the campaign trail. >> it is not how you look, but how you feel. that is what we're talking about here. if you look at the economic data, 14 million new jobs and corporate profits up and stock market report highs. it looks good. inflation is coming down. if you look at groceries and gas and housing, people are feeling the pain. the consumer index is higher now than any point in the biden presidency and if that is the factor that people are getting more confident or the malaise and that means it will not disd dissipate by november, that is always the race. in 2011, it was the same thing. the economy was improving, but people were not feeling it. by the time the election happened in 2012, they were and he was reelected. the question is will that happen before time runs out.

>> marc, do you think time will run out? >> i don't know. i think reality is the prices have increased across the board from the time that biden became president to now at 17%. there is a lot of hangover. steve is right, it has started to come down. for the first time, real wages are increasing. that is a lot of memory over the last three years for people to raise in the election year. if they reduce rates and the economy continues to grow, i think it could be a plus for biden by the time we get to november. right now, it is a drag for him and i think people will look fondly at the trump years with the economy growing and the jobs growing from 2017. i think the economy is the advantage for donald trump. >> marc and steve, i guess there is a difference with inflation coming down and prices coming

down. prices are locked much higher and now if inflation is coming down from 4 or 5 to 3.5, the increases we have already seen are increasing more by 3.5 instead of 5. andrew, i'm from a two-working household. i'm at the supermarket a lot because i get off early. i have sticker shock every day, marc. i bought chicken yesterday. thin sliced chicken. $14. it was $8 a year ago. or year and a half ago. everything that i scanned cost $7. i'm telling you, marc and steve, people's paychecks are not where -- not covering what they covered three years ago, steve. they're not. >> go ahead. >> joe, there is no doubt. you are right about that. real wages are significantly down from when joe biden became president.

it is roughly 18% prices increasing across the board. during the four years of trump's presidency, it was 7.5%. the inflation is the biggest drag right now. >> steve, don't you think immigration is the abortion issue of 2024? >> immigration is an issue. i think the biden administration was benefitted by the fact that congress, with the bipartisan immigration bill presented, was written by a republican from oklahoma who is no lefty blue guy. when the speaker said we will not consider it, we would rather have a problem to campaign on than a solution although the border crisis is out of control. the president should say i will sign a bill and close the border if congress sends it to me. >> he can do it with executive order. you know that. you are thoughtnot purple. marc, he is as blue as the blue

evi bluest, sky. you cannot give cover to 42 million people in the country. >> i'm not going to sit here and tell you immigration is not a big problem for democrats. it is. it is a big problem for the country. instead of taking a solution and letting the congress being the perfect enemy of the good, the republicans in the senate say they will never get a solution as long as there is democracy in america. that is probably for another show. >> come on. >> marc, let me ask you -- both of you a money question and fund raising question. clearly, president biden is winning in the fund raising category. president trump, obviously, has a bunch of legal problems costing him quite a small fortune. maybe he will get more money from the rnc. the rnc is struggling to raise money itself.

how do you see the money piece of this playing itself out as it relates to the campaign? >> my two cents -- >> marc. >> my twocents, andrew, they will continue to be an advantage for joe biden. he will out-fund raise trump. there are many reluctant to get back behind the former president. at the same time, i think the media makes a bigger issue than it is because president trump has an ability to get press coverage without needing to pay for it. you see the reality in 2016 and 2020 where he had a small campaign and i anticipate he will again. we iwill not need the same resources. >> steve, i know you said it is for a different time. can you tell me exactly how trump will end democracy? is it with the military? will he take the military and

not leave? when you say that -- >> first of all, can you tell me whether or not he will accept the election results? he will not say if he will do that. >> like stacey abrams or hillary clinton? you have a right to question if it is a fair outcome. democrats have done it for years. how will he end democracy we had since 1776? how will he do that? >> i think he is telegraphing how he will do that. he will use the military at the border. he will use the military in cities. we iwill do things that are not permitted under the law today and he is telling people he will do that. he has every right to challenge the election results. when you five 63 lawsuits and lose 61 when you appoint those

judges, you need to say you accept the outcome of the election. >> mike johnson. any of the republicans that are supporting trump, what do you think? are they treasonous or stupid? >> listen, marc's boss, a stoo democracy, said trump should not be president again after what he did on that day. >> there's an article. when push comes to shove, all of these people will eventually vote for trump. marc, are you voting for trump after what happened with pence? are you backing trump for the election? >> joe, i think everything that donald trump did leading up to january 6th was dead wrong. i had to testify to that effect. i think your point is well taken. i think both sides have been working to undermine the faith

the voters have in the elections. hillary clinton referred to him as an illegitimate president. >> i don't remember hillary clinton or any other candidate or former president or president talk about trying to have their own vice president hung. a lot of the american public looks at this and says i don't understand what's happening here. >> andrew, i lived that day personally. i understand. i was part of the team that was evacuated. i had to testify to that effect. the democrats use a lot of hyperbole about ending democracy. the reality is the americans are concerned of the areas of inflation and what will you do to help me bring down prices and the economic outcome? those are the issues people will vote on. >> it sounds like you would be prepared to vote for president

trump. my question is are you prepared to vote for president trump because you dislike president biden or you don't like president biden or he is not cognitively with it? if i told you gavin newsom was your candidate? >> let's talk about the policies then. >> that's what i'm wondering. i'm trying to understand the direction at which hanging the vice president matches up with whatever the other thing is on the other side. >> andrew, to be direct and candid, i have reservations about voting for president trump again. at the same time, there is no way i can vote for joe biden. his policies are damaging our country. it leaves me and a lot of americans in a place where you are uncomfortable with both options presented today. >> by the way, i think marc just demonstrated the problem and

answer to your question. obviously, he has concerns of trump. his boss said that donald trump should never been president again because of what he did leading up to january 6th and on january 6th and following. they are falling in line because -- by the way, i think marc is a person of enormous inn at t i integrity. >> congress member buck introduced an amendment for joe biden yesterday. five years from now, joe biden in the same position right now, seeing the decline we have seen in the last year, you are okay five years from now with him being in the oval office with kamala harris waiting in the wings? you can't see how certain people might think that overrides the constitution will take care of trump and he'll shut the border and maybe do these other things

and probably not send the military in to become a dictator in like vladimir putin? >> he won't say. >> address the biden part. >> listen, i think joe biden's age is a concern and a concern not just -- >> concern? >> yeah. it is up to the biden campaign and the president to demonstrate he is up to the job. i think what you hear from people who not just talk to him, but republicans, when they negotiate a deal, ask speaker johnson what it was like. ask kevin mccarthy. joe biden is doing the job every day. i agree with you, it is up to the biden team and the president to demonstrate to the american people that he is up to doing his job for the next four years. that is a challenge they have to address and meet. if they don't, they will have a problem. i'll acknowledge that. the problems of age are, i

think, pale in comparison to the problems that donald trump presents. this election is a choice. so far, it is joe biden against what do you think? joe biden against rising inflation and higher costs. it is about to be joe biden against donald trump. that will look different. 40% of republicans, two days ago, said no to donald trump although he is the nominee. that is the republican primary. wait until you get to the general election. >> purple strategy, steve? >> blue? >> what does it take to make purple? red and blue. >> we will have time to do this. d d ueple, marc. reanbl. right in the direct center. >> blue and red.

this is our future, ma. godaddy airo. creates a logo, website, even social posts... in minutes! -how? -a.i. (impressed) ay i like it! who wants to come see the future?! get your business online in minutes with godaddy airo wall street forecasts over 100 billion in sales for anti-obesity drugs known as glp -1. but these treatments are largely administrated through cumbersome injections. enter lexaria bioscience with their patented oral delivery technology. early studies were glp-1 suggest reduced side effects

and better blood sugar control with reduced spikes. lexaria bioscience. transforming the future of glp-1 drug delivery. restaurant chain wendy's confirmed a report it plans to test dynamic pricing by 2025. the company announced this month it plans to invest $20 million to rollout digital menu boards to all company operated restaurants. it can use the menu boards to increase or decrease prices for items depending on the time of day. it will test a.i. menu changes and suggestive selling based on weather. i'm not sure how i feel about this. you know what changed, andrew?

no one is getting their own food. waiting and looking at the board of people ahead of me and they're all these codes and numbers. people waiting to bring food to other people. big orders. i'm watching. i need a couple of fries and i'm watching people put together a meal for ten. >> i can't figure out about this and i think this would potentially cut sales for them. if i knew a long drive-in line is a short drive-in line. >> it doesn't seem to be good for wendy's individually. there are alternatives. i don't have to go to wendy's. >> if this is sort of primetime. i i'll go across the street. the other thing is i assume and we're around certain things like

this and they are oddly price cons conscious when it comes to fast food. >> exactly. it is nice to agree with you. >> thanks. up next, the ftc seeking to block -- what about this? walmart. can you say walmart? you know why they're doing this. the unions. the biden administration codling the unions. the kroger and albertson's deal. the kroger and albertson's deal. that's next. >> announcer: this cnbc program is sponsored by baird. visit bairddifference.com. every change leads to a bold possibility. you have the vision. we have the insights, financial solutions and global perspectives to help you make it real. barclays corporate and investment bank

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the federal trade commission filed a lawsuit to block the merger over kroger and albertson's. joining us, kathy o'neal, former

senior director, and people are separated on this, and there are people that say the elephant in the room is walmart and kroger and albertson's should be able to somehow rationalize certain operations and be able to compete with walmart and that's the true threat to consumers? >> hi, joe. hi, andrew. kathy here. thank you for having me. this is a long anticipated lawsuit, and as you point out the ftc is looking at a narrow slice of the market and looking at the impact of this merger on large supermarket chains and are turning a blind eye on the super stores, the costcos and walmarts

and they are saying it will be on the large supermarket train, and the data and the records bear that out that we should be ignoring that. in the past, it's true, consumers have largely relied and there has been demand on the supermarket chains, and with delivery services it makes it easier to order from the costcos and walmarts of the world. >> people would say that you are looking at -- you are back in the '70s or '80s, that's the landscape you are looking at when you are trying to decide on a merger between supermarket chains. it's just stated, and you find -- this is a journal piece today, obviously "the wall street journal," the main reason

they are blocking the deal appears to be the opposition from the united food and workers union, because they are able during collective bargaining to actually play the two companies against each other to get higher wages. we want them to get higher wages. is that a legitimate concern in a merger that it might make it harder for unions to extract higher wages or are we thinking about consumers? are both constituencies okay to consider? >> absolutely. there's no limitation here. most mergers in the past has focused consumers to be the focus. as you point out the ftc in their complaint allege in the

past both companies used the fact both chains played off of each other for wages, and that competition will be eliminated resulted in reduced benefits and depressed wages for workers. the biden administration has been focused on workers, and protecting consolidation -- >> kathy, real quick, because we only have 30 seconds left, because all the biden administration talks about -- they talk about it all the time, inflation, inflation, inflation, and joe talks about his food costing too much when he goes to the supermarket, do you think this would increase the price of food? >> the ftc is alleging it will increase the price of food. the president has gone on record

himself saying he's concerned about the high prices of groceries and the concerns of the average impact on the consumer, and we are seeing deflationary trends in other sectors. >> okay. thank you. >> do you -- it's the staff.

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futures are flat ahead of today's open as investors get ready for data on durable goods, housing and jamie dimon thinks

there's a chance we're headed for recession. plus, google's gemini ai. how big tech can prevent bias in ai is all straight ahead. the second hour of "squawk box" begins right now. good morning and welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc live from the nasdaq market site in times square. i am joe kernen along with andrew ross sorkin. the earnings reports we have been waiting for, not much going on. the nasdaq up 36, and we have green on the screen.

macy's out with quarterly results. above expectations of 1.96. comp store sales are what a lot of people base, you know, whether they think it's a good or bad report. comp store sales fell 2.4%, so down. wall street was expecting worse, a drop of 5.8%. macy's plans to close 150 under perfect -- under performing stores. this, the retailer narrowing its net sales range 22.2 to 22.9.

the estimate was 22.95, and the high end of the range was 23.9, so the top end of the range has come down. after it's all said and done the stock is down 81 cents, which is about 4%. we will check things off on the earnings side of the story this morning following the macy's report with lowe's just around 20,000 shares of volume so far. they reported better than expected profits and better revenues for the quarter even though sales did fall from the same time last year. lowe's was impacted by the lower demand from the bad winter weather. maybe better than some estimates out there. lowe's did forecast low shares.

also on the earnings front, just around 15,000 shares of volume for workday. it reiterated its full year guidance for yearly subscription revenues. people are taking profits. we will cap things off on the crypto complex. bitcoin is up about 3.72%. bitcoin etfs have been a driver of the upside action and anticipation over reduction and supply growth for bitcoin, so

bitcoin prices higher. crypto stocks also seeing gains. minor marathon digital, and microstrategy, by the way, up 3,000 bit coins bringing it's total holdings to roughly $10.5 billion watch those bitcoin etfs. equity markets hitting market highs is confirmation we are in a strong bull market. we want to bring in chief investment strategist at sanctuary wealth. i thought jamie dimon might be opt optimistic but worried about

the -- >> but bullish on ai. >> yes. >> i think we agree on ai. it will continue to transform global economies and we are seeing that get priced into the equity markets. on a global scale, this is not just a bull run in the united states. we are seeing some of the european markets hit all-time highs, and japan reach all-time highs since 1989, 1990. that market could move into a whole secular bull market. some are saying this is narrow, and it really is a lot more. we are getting new highs in many different pockets of the market. the barometer you don't hear people talk about is the s&p advance decline line, and that is confirming the breakout in the s&p 500. >> so if you could own anything right now, are you in the

magnificent seven category, or the fancy 4, fantastic 4 -- some people moved it up to 5 again. where are you? >> we have been bullish on the magnificent 7. if you are managing a portfolio, there's a risk of not owning some of these names. they are leaders in the ai space. what i also point out, andrew, to clients, is most of the companies, at least right now that are really developing ai are coming from the united states. we are the leaders, so not opl are u.s. investors wanting to own the companies, but they want to be owned by international investors as well. we have been very bullish in technology. what we have encouraged clients to understand is our economy moved from an industrial-base to a digital base. we are hearing a lot of

references to 1995. i would agree with that from a technical perspective. the market made a significant move from 1995 to 2000. a lot of that came from the productivity enhancements from computers and telecom, what we used to call tmt. i think ai is just starting to have that type of influence on our markets and we are getting huge base breakouts. they are called saucer breakouts from a saucer pattern or from what is called a cup and handle. we are not just seeing from this equities -- >> cup and handle? where are you getting this from, cup and handle? >> this is technical analysis. these are different patterns that have been given these particular names. my aunt that was a famous technician used to tell me, mary ann, if you see a smile that's a

top and if you see a frown, that's the bottom. the smile is called a saucer bottom. and there's something that is called a cup and handle, it trades sideways and breaks out, and it's like a handle. we are seeing these over large trading periods, which is a year, and that means it's an upside target for this market. in november we had for the s&p 5200 to 5400, and we just raised our range from 5400 to 5800. >> there's a view, as we talked about yesterday in the broadcast, once we get into the summer and fall you will get into the presidential election, and both the volatility, and historically when you look at how markets traded, it becomes a lot more complicated. how does that factor into your thinking? >> when you look at the

presidential cycle and you look at when an incumbent is running, the markets are up. when i look at the fiscal spending -- >> what is the result? >> i don't have the results, but the result is i think equities are going to trade very well and will still have a significant year end rally. >> mary ann, nice to see you. >> thank you. mark smucker will join us to talk all things consumer, like od inflation and quarterly results. and anthony scaramucci will be with us. "squawk box" will be right back. oh, you're a messy one. cool, right? so cool. anyone can become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq, a fund that gives you access to nasdaq-100 innovations.

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jm smucker results just out, earnings of $2.48 per share, better than wall street expecting. we have been talking about food inflation this morning. food prices climbed by more than 2.5% last year coming on top of larger outsized gains in the previous years. joining us, mark smucker, j.m. smucker ceo. i don't want to get simplistic. it's always good to have you, mark. you have your own inflation you are seeing with your input costs and what it has costs you to buy

the raw materials, and then you have to make decisions about how much you can pass on and still be a competitive leader, you know, on the shelves in supermarkets. what is the state of the business right now? >> sure, joe. thank you guys for having me. first of all, our business is performing again very well this quarter. that's across all of our businesses. we are actually seeing units up and volume as well as across our entire portfolio from value brands from premium. we take pricing very seriously, right. we want to be prudent as we do that. we do view that we are still in an inflationary environment, and overall our business continues to perform, whether it's coffee, snacks, pet snacks and all of those things.

>> mark, when you hear government types, the biden administration, i will just say it, when you hear about shrink tphraeugs and corporate greed being responsible for all the inflation, and do you write that off that birds have got to fly and fish have to swim and officials got to demagogue -- >> we have to focus on what the consumer needs are and the consumer comes first. we want to make sure first, joe, we are meeting their needs and providing them the products they want, and we are providing the nutritional value they want. we have to remain focused on the consumer. you are showing uncrustables right now, and that's our rocket

ship. it's used by athletes and millennials and obviously kids. as long as we remain focused on what the consumer wants, and we are here to serve the consumer and it's around pricing, we will be prudent and responsible and pass those long in a justifiable way. >> how have margins held up? would you not raise prices and let your margins shrink. don't you have to make that decision every day. >> yeah, as we have raised prices we work closely with our retail customers to make sure we are passing along only what is justifiable. in the highest inflationary times you might see marginal

compression, but overall our business has been resilient, and in the face of some of the price increases, our consumers continue to buy our products, whether that's dunkin' premium coffee or uncrustables. even in the pet snacks realm, you have milk bone biscuits or more lasting chews that might be more expensive. consumers continue to migrate towards a range of the value spectrum. >> the innovation on the uncrustables is pretty good. can they last six months? is it vacuum packed? i never had one where i go, uh -- you can always count on it being a fresh peanut butter and

jelly. >> they can stay fresh up to a year in the freezer, but once you open it you need to eat them in the next day. >> you have ever had one, sorkin? >> no. >> we will send andrew some. >> will you really do that? >> of course. >> do you have an opinion on whether you would like to see kr kroger's and albertson's merge? how would that affect you and how would it affect customers? >> i don't have an opinion. both kroger and albertson's are great customers of ours, and outstanding partners. kroger is here in the backyard here in the state of ohio, and albertson is a great customer predominantly on the west coast, and we work with both of them and think they are both great

businesses. >> where are you? >> northeast ohio, in the cleveland area. >> that's okay. it's not cincinnati, but i hear you. i hear what you are saying. all right, mark, it's always a pleasure. i wanted to ask you about, you know, pets, and i think people will crimp on their kids before their pets -- well, they care more about paying up good for k pets -- >> people treat their pets well. we have hostess and -- >> twinkies, i don't know if you can destroy those. >> i don't know. they are pretty tasty, and i ate one onstage last week. >> you have to deep fry them and

then a shot of tequila. thank you. i like all your products. pet foods as well. i have four dogs. >> well. coming up, the recent surge in bitcoin and so much more, and ant ant ant anthony scaramucci coming up. delivery technology. early studies were glp-1 suggest reduced side effects and better blood sugar control with reduced spikes. lexaria bioscience. transforming the future of glp-1 drug delivery.

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welcome back to "squawk box." the futures right now about where they were, and the nasdaq doubles its gain, up about 30,

up about 57 points right now. people say why are you looking at the stock market all day? bitcoin was over 57,000 at one point, and the action this morning might be more interesting than what we are seeing in the equities market. >> jpmorgan chase ceo, jamie dimon. >> i give it half that. we may have a soft landing but there's also a higher chance in the market things will be raised a little higher. what is always a mistake to do is just look at the year. all of the factors, qt, physical spending, the deficits and geopolitics, those play out over multiple years, and in my mind i am cautious about everything. >> reading into that, bitcoin

and so much more. joining us, anthony scaramucci. great to have you on the broadcast this morning. let's talk about the jamie dimon comments. >> andrew, he's one of the smartest people in financial services if not the smartest. i enjoy listening to him and try to factor in what he's saying. the economy does feel very strong, and i don't see how the fed doesn't cut rates eventually because of the deficit spending problem the u.s. is facing. i think those rate cuts will save the economy from going into a recession, but, jamie is a very smart guy and is smarter than me. i always listen to him. i am at intellectual odds with him related to bitcoin. but, listen, anytime he speaks i listen, and he's one of the people, including yourself, that i have on google alert.

>> god bless you. you just mentioned bitcoin and he is with odds with you on that subject, and he might have been wrong about bitcoin but he was right about the economy and he did say he doesn't think there would be interest rates coming so quickly, and he's 100% correct. on bitcoin, he has been less correct. we are now, what, a month and a half, two months after the traded exchanged funds have been approved. where do you think this all goes? >> the first thing i would say, and i know jamie listens to your show, and maybe he will watch this segment, i would ask him to do his homework, and somebody like larry sake who has done the homework, and it's a one-way

ticket towards bitcoin, and if you look at the last 14 years, you usually get a quadruple after a habit. bitcoin right now is trading 57,000. i am not sure where it will be on or about april 20th, when the having takes place, and prices are going up primarily because there's not a lot of supply out there. you are seeing the bitcoin etfs come into the marketplace at 12 to 14 times what is available in terms of what the network is producing every day, and that's why you are seeing the prize squeeze. you do have people that don't believe in bitcoin and are short bitcoin, and they are getting

rec right now. that's why you are seeing the appreciation. >> there was the argument made that obviously it's going to go higher, and likely to go higher, and where are you on that? i think there are a lot of people, frankly, who missed the bus this time around. they felt they were burned the first time around or the second or third time around. how do you see the trading pattern here? >> again, i have been humbled by life and humbled by markets and humbled by politics, and when i make these predictions, i am often wrong. i do think it's going higher. it's hard to figure out in the short term. if gold is the $16 trillion asset, and bitcoin has a lot of the properties as gold, i would say it's easier to move around,

and it's at a trillion dollars right now. and that's from now until 2030. i can't predict the near term, andrew, but this is something that we put on in october of 2020. i have a lot of railroad tracks on my back as a result of putting this on. i am happy to report to you our fund has done well. past performance is not indicative of future performance, and the last 18 months for sky bridge has been do good as a result of staying in this. if we do the homework, and even if you are wrong short-term, stay in something and you will likely be rewarded if you have the thing right on fundamentals. >> michael sailor can tell you about that, too, right, mooch? >> no question. michael led me into it. michael made his first bitcoin investment in august of 2020.

sky bridge owes him a great debt, because he explains this to us and we started to make our investments in october prior to him, at higher prices, i might add. >> anthony, like you said, it became clear to me the first time i did any homework at all, and it was an hour. that's all it took. it's frustrating -- it's so easy to be negative on bitcoin and call it a beanie baby. i don't think charlie -- i am almost certain they never looked at a chapter on what the asset is or the properties of money, over 4,000 years. there's six or seven things, and money isn't always backed by a government. it's used by society to account for what you do so you can exchange it for what somebody else does.

it's that simple. you can see the properties of it. it's so elegant. it makes so much sense that i wish they would do the homework. just like you. that's your answer now, they need to do the homework. >> just do the homework. joe, i will offer this out to money, the assent of money goes into that 4,000 history you are describing, and somebody like professor ferguson is a pro-bitcoiner, and you know this, the central banking community has been a little bit of a drunk driver with the money. just go back to 1971 when we pulled ourselves off the gold standard, and the u.s. lost 98% of its purchasing power in 52 years. so they said, maybe they are drunk driving with the money and maybe we can create a decentralized system where the

assets are harder. andrew was debating tom last week, and i would say to andrew, read "the ascent of money," and you will see this decentralized and transparent currency will -- maybe it won't be the currency standard for the world but it can replace gold or alongside gold as a historic value. >> what is your larger take on atheiram, and what is your taking on what the government will do to the extent it will be approving or disapproving of more of these kinds of etfs and the like. are folks going to have to go to court to get gary tkpwepbz lure onboard.

>> well, he has lost several court cases and will probably slow down the atheiram decision. he's obligated to make a decision in late may, and there are ways he can slow that down. i do predict you will get an atheiram eft by the end of the year. if you look at the ripple case, the theory that is likely going to be deemed a commodity which will make it acceptable to put into an eft. andrew, listen, they lost the cases. this speaks to the rule of law in the united states, the reason why we are the haven for capital around the world, we have a flat structure and lots of checks and balances, and the sec was hand checked by the court system. they lost that case and they were deemed arbitrary and capricious. >> you have been -- i don't know if you can put you in the never

trumper camp -- >> on steroids. >> you can't call me never trump, guys. i was with trump. >> you are one of the most outspoken critics now. >> i am trying to help out the democracy, joe. i am trying to stay the republic for your grandchildren. >> my question, anthony, is this, we were watching one of vice presence's colleagues on the broadcast, and there are a number of folks that i think were hoping nikki haley might have a shot, and i think they know she doesn't have a shot at this point and they may very well switch, too. >> you saw jamie dimon's comments -- >> yeah. >> he did say, he was right about this and that.

>> yeah, he was saying that in the context. he was not -- i am going to speak on behalf of jamie for a second, i don't think he was telling people to go out and vote for him. >> he was talking about demon -- >> yeah, he was not suggesting they should vote for them. anthony, you are the guest and you don't need to hear us go on and on, and what do you think about what is happening there? >> there's a lot there. you can't call me a never-trumper, because i was with trump, and i got fired after being there a few days in the white house. i think this is like research on that a security. if you look at his behavior and look at the things he did in the white house, how he handled

covid and look at the insurrection on january 6th. i would love to hear kevin's comments, and kevin could put donald trump's lights out, and donald trump is not going to beat joe biden. he doesn't have the crossover vote in the republican party. bernie sanders' supporters did not vote for hillary clinton, and that's why she lost the election even winning the popular vote. his base is getting smaller. what jamie dimon was saying and what joe often says, you have to take into account, you can't call 87 million people deplorable. there are real grievances in society, and i saw it firsthand, and i would tell democrats, get your house in order with things

like the border and crypto. if you lose, you are going lose because of people like elizabeth warren and gary against lure. i grew up -- my dad, who we lost in september of last year was a crane operator on long island for 42 years, and we lived in the middle class. he was an economically aspirational blue-collar worker. we have turned those people into economically desperational people. a lot of those people are supporting donald trump despite the fact that he has the indictments and counts against hip, and despite the fact, face it, he's a little nuts. >> people are supporting biden despite the fact that he's showing signs of not being like

he was as recently as a couple years -- >> i will take older over crazy, joe. >> well, people sometimes will take -- you know, i have said "weekend at bernie's" -- it's weekend at biden's. joe biden has his own issues with the llc -- >> most politicians do. >> i am going with "one flew over the coo coo's nest." >> i would -- >> he's a threat to democracy, joe. >> that's your opinion. that's your opinion. my opinion is that's hyperbolic.

democracy is going to survive. >> come on. >> he tried to get mike pence killed on the 6th of january, joe. come on. you have to look at this -- >> this is hyperbolic. i do not concede. >> hyperbolic? bring mike pence on. is mike pence supporting donald trump? come on. >> no, but mike johnson is and kevin mccarthy is, and -- all these people are stupid or treasonists, anthony? >> no, joe, they like political power. they have chosen political power over their country. >> democrats don't like political power? >> i am sure they do, but one is in a totally different league than the other. >> that's why we are going to have an election, obviously.

g thanks, anthony. >>ood to be back. two stocks that doubled in the premarket just this morning, and we will show you those moves after the break. "squawk box" returns after this. we're helping our client navigate from the

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and vktx up 109% just on that news. i am not sure of the market cap. i am checking that right now because that's a significant move -- no, it's going to go from 3.6 billion today to almost 8 billion in one fell swoop. and nanux therapeutics, the drug reduced psa levels in a majority of patients and an immune response -- erov responsewas mild. temporary managed treatment. we're coming right back.

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when i was your age, we never had anything like this. and look forward to a morewhat? wifi?future. wifi that works all over the house, even the basement. the basement. so i can finally throw that party... and invite shannon barnes. dream do come true. xfinity gives you reliable wifi with wall-to-wall coverage on all your devices, even when everyone is online. maybe we'll even get married one day. i wonder what i will be doing? probably still living here with mom and dad. fast reliable speeds right where you need them. that's wall-to-wall wifi on the xfinity 10g network. welcome back to "squawk box." google planning to relaunch its ai tool that creates images of people in the next few weeks. the tech giant paused the technology after some inaccuracies in historical depictions.

joining us to discuss mistakes and bias in ai is michael the furrow. this has caused a lot of consternation, a lot of commotion, frankly, around the country, around the world, the pendulum swung one away, is it going to swing the other way. michael, how big a deal is this, and why are these things happening? >> i think it is a big deal that google, which is the source of the truth for any number of topics in our lives, you, your producers, your colleagues rely on google for information, probably hundreds of times a day. it is a big deal that google, which is now the paper of record for the internet, the way "the new york times" might have been one day in the past, the paper of record for the world, is creating fictitious and historically impossible images, for example, depicting the founding fathers as african-american men or asian

women, or refusing to answer or declining to answer who is more evil, adolf hitler or elon musk? over time, if left unchecked, this fictitious information came from gemini and other models, we don't have to just pick on google, will find its way into our knowledge sphere, will find its way into schools, into curriculum and lessons, because teachers will incorporate what they find, students will incorporate what they find when they write essays and we will further miseducate the younger generations with bad information and bad history. and the things that we think are bad about our current political electorate will get only worse. >> you've set the table quite nicely. the real question is, can these things be fixed? and how are they going to be fixed in realtime over time? >> they can be fixed. >> so we're always getting the most accurate information that actually exists out there. if, in fact, what it's really

doing is pulling from all sorts of places, some of which is going to be accurate, and some of which is going to be not. >> i like what you just said, garbage in, garbage out. that's true, you have to make sure they're pulling from good sources, but there's also what lens these models, which are inherently done, they have to be taught how to think, the way any other machine has to be taught how to think. it's the lens that these models are given or that's supplied to these lenses by the political officers who operate and work and control large bureaucracies at these companies, insist on applying. there is a political class, a political officer class, just as there was in the soviet union. it is very real. these are unreviewable people, many of them grifters who are unkbloib unemployable outside of these very, very specific jobs they have in choosing the political future and the ideological truth -- >> who are the grifters? >> i think you have a group of bureaucrats who work at companies like google, like meta, who are in charge of

something called ethics or something called political compliance, who are effectively unpl unemployable people, but they have through their phds and consulting gigs and self-appointed roles as political truth seekers become the arbitrators of truth -- >> so who should be the arbitrator of truth? the truth is, if google hired joe kernan and andrew sorkin -- >> we might get somewhere close -- >> we might, but at the same time, i'm sure there would be people who would say, you know, that joe has one view of the universe, and they would say that andrew has another view of the universe. >> i would take a combo of joe and andrew every day over the people -- >> but because we don't have that now. we have ten andrews. >> oh! >> on most of these sites. >> let me not name check the guilty. >> but michael, when i saw some of the recent stuff, shocking, i asked myself.

>> it is shocking. >> this just looks like more gigo, people outing the garbage in and the ai spits the garbage out. >> i think it's worse than that. >> how does ai decide to be as woke as the original people running twitter. >> can i -- i want -- i don't want to speak over michael, but one thing. what happened -- the reason this happened to begin with was because the truth was two and three, four years ago if you looked at some of the google ai, originally, it was super biased against minorities, like super biased, like white men, you know -- i'm just saying, if you go back and -- >> is that gigo too. garbage in, garbage out? >> arguably, i don't know. but i think one of the things that happened, you had this swing, so they were trying to correct that. am i wrong there? >> i'm not familiar with the history that you're describing, but i would never characterize you as wrong, andrew, in any

circumstances. what i'm saying, whether it's over correction or just the innocence, the naivete of the model. it is pernicious and untrue and the problem is, i'm going to launch myself into your earlier conversation with the mooch, who we know and love. the problem is that the same people who will accuse donald trump of making up falsehood and doubling down on falsehood will come to the defense of a faceless, implacable model from a public company that no one really wants to take responsibility for when it comes up with historically inaccurate images. it may be intellectually interesting or stimulating. it may be educationally inspiring to talk about an alternate history, and there may be a lot of reason aesthetically or politically to review the failures of history, but these institutions, the reason we're talking about this on cnbc instead of msnbc, is that these

ideologies are no just in the political sphere, they have now entered the shareholder universe. they have entered the business sphere. and the political officers that we're talking about, whether they were -- i don't remember that moment you're referring to, andrew, on the right, but now certainly on the left, and no one accused the silicon valley of being right wing. no one should. the political officers are very, very well-equipped at getting you fired if you have any dissent. >> i apologize, we are up against a hard break. we always look forward to seeing you and hope to do it again very on. i understand. >> next hour, we'll talk to kevin mccarthy after this. u've . rock star? what do you know about rock stars? billy idol? i mean where's the skin-tight leather? my shoes are leather. where's the unnecessary zippers? that thing! billy, rock star is just how doug feels when he uses workday. thanks, rory. i'll show you rock star! be a finance and hr rock star.

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good morning. big day for retailers, retail results, it's about the state of the consumer. we'll get you caught up on the latest numbers from macy's and lowe's. congressional leaders set to meet with president biden today, will they be able to head off a partial government shutdown looming at the end of the week? coming up, we have an interview with former house speaker kevin mccarthy. and one of the biggest pension funds in the country unloading the shares of exxonmobil over what it claims

is foot dragging on the transition to a cleaner economy. we're going to speak to the man behind this decision, new york controller tom dinapoli. the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now. good morning. welcome back to "squawk box" right here on cnbc. we're live at the nasdaq market site in times square. becky is off today. u.s. equity futures at this hour looking up. dow up about 23 points, 24 points now. the s&p 500 up about 8 points. when we look at the nasdaq to open about 57 points higher. treasury yields, the ten-year note sitting just at about 4.268. the two-year at 4.697. let's start the hour by getting over to dom chu. >> we'll kick things off with an

early morning headliner. that's laos. those shares have been moving between gains and losses, down 0.1%. roughly 75,000 shares of trading volume. america's second biggest home improvement retailer reported bigger than expected profit and revenues. sales did fall from the same period last year. lowe's said it was impacted by lower demand from retail customers for do-it-yourself projects and bad winter weather, as well. but its probusiness, the contractor side of things was flat year over year. they also forecast sales that would be lower than what it saw last year. that move leaving to a 1/10 of 1% drop. then shares of cava are up nearly 6%. the mediterranean-themed fast casual restaurant reported profits and revenues that both came in better than expectations. same-restaurant sales growth for the full year came in better than expected. those cava shares up about 5.5%.

and we'll end on bitcoin, because it just keeps climbing. you'll remember last hour, we told you across the 56,000 mark, the highest levels sin toward the end of 2021. it was up almost one point this morning. joe, andrew, it crossed the 57,000 mark to roughly 57,445, depending on which exchange and metric you look at. and according to the data from coin market cap, that puts the total market cap of bitcoin at north of $1.1 trillion. at this point, i'll send things back over to you guys. >> dom, thanks. the company's ceo joins us now. >> new ceo, first quarter on the job. macy's putting up mixed holiday quarter results, with much lower earnings. same-store sales fell 2.4%, better than expected for the full year. macy's guidance also unveiling a

new strategy. planning to closeabout 150 underperforming macy's stores. that leaves about 350 locations left, but is also adding 45 bloomingdale's and blue mercury stores. i spoke with spring who said, we're closing underproductive stores that represent 25 act of our gross square footage, but less than 10% of our sales and have a 500 comp delta to our comp performance. this is a story about real estate and geography skmag sure you're in the best centers with your best game. spring said the retailer is adding more employees to some of the stores it's investing in, using ai to improve inventory, and evaluating merchandise, so, there's, quote, variety without redundancy. he's also updating its distribution network. and spring says he's looking at macy's total business, emphasizing what's working. bloomingdale's is coming off several years of record sales, profit, and customer service scores over the last couple of years. blue mercury is on a growth trajectory with 12 quarters of come-store sales growth.

this is a good moment where we are very self-aware. spring said the consumer in the u.s. is under pressure, though wanting to enjoy life after the pandemic, but concerned whether it be about inflation or gas prices or grocery prices or what it costs to eat out for a family of four. and then they see the chaos that's going on around the world, that doesn't help make people feel good, yet there's a resiliency. so he's got a lot of work to do here, joe and andrew, with macy's. i said, does this sort of signal the end of the middle of america department store, and he said, no, it's just a new revolution, but down to 350 stores is considerably lower than we were just several years ago. >> ice cube melting in the sun, it's not the end, but it's not the beginning of a great new era, either. >> much of their business is online, which is important, but i also asked him, when you close a store, you often lose radiating ecommerce sales,

because custonsumers have learn to use the internet and the stores interchangeably. he is aware of that and they're trying to shift the business to nearby stores where there is one, but that is some of the risk as well, is when you close a store, losing some of the online business and those associates as well. >> right. >> thanks, courtney. >> when we come back, a lot more on "squawk." the government heading towards a partial shutdown the end of the week if congressional leaders cannot reach a quick deal. after the break, former house speaker kevin mccarthy is going to be with us live to weigh in on the state of the negotiations. stay tuned. d iss bc.atching "squawk box" anth icn this thing, it's making me get an ice bath again. what do you mean? these straps are mind-blowing! they collect hundreds of data points like hrv and rem sleep, so you know all you need for recovery. and you are? i'm an investor...in invesco qqq, a fund that gives me access to... nasdaq 100 innovations like... wearable training optimization tech. uh, how long are you... i'm done. i'm okay.

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welcome back to "squawk box." we've got a heck of a conversation about to happen right now. you don't want to go anywhere. take a look at the futures. dow up about five points. nasdaq up about 45 points. the s&p 500 up about 5 points. joseph kernan, over to you. >> all right, you had your -- you know, you had the mooch, it was two against one, now i've got mccarthy here. i hope you're ready. president biden is expected to meet with house and senate leadership today in a deal to reach a deal on government funding and international aid. without an agreement, we could see a partial government shutdown this weekend.

joining us now with his view of the negotiation and sticking points, former house speaker, kevin mccarthy. good to have you. we'll pretend you're on to talk about the possible government shutdown and none of the good stuff that we're going to talk about. but we'll talk about that at the beginning. another -- i mean, how many times have we done this? probably not going to happen. probably not going to happen. what do you see -- >> this time actually could happen. >> partial? >> it's a partial, so you really wouldn't feel it, but no one's making a decision. there's twip types of leader. you're heaeither a thermometer a thermostat. no one's willing to leap out and say, let's move forward. i don't know what we're fighting over right now. the spending levels are already set. the longer you keep a continuing resolution, it means you're spending more money than what our dealing was. and you've locked in all the democratic policies. so i don't quite understand why

we continue down this path. we're still talking about last year's money. we're five months into the new year. >> yeah, you look healthy, tan, and thin. is this what happens when you leave a hard job? maybe i could look healthy, tan, and thin. >> i love every day of the job. there's new challenges to go on to. but, in the new challenges, i want to work with people i get to choose to work with, instead of people you have to. >> so, just referencing what we did this -- you probably know scaramucci. you've spoken -- >> i worked with him for 11 days. >> exactly, exactly. he threw down some type of gauntlet. he said, you could have -- if you would have had the moral courage on january 7th to do what you needed to do to drive a stake in this orange satan's heart, that you could have, and you didn't. and now democracy is at risk. you heard all of that, right? >> we don't have kings and

queens. >> i want to know -- i keep asking every guest to explain how democracy -- it's not from 7.2 million illegals walking across -- >> -- the question for you -- >> because he wanted to hang the vice president or something? >> because it is possible, given what happened last time, right -- and maybe you'll say it's not possible, but it is possible that we get to a point in this country where people do not believe election results at all and that he remains either in the position himself or his family members do or something happens in some way that people don't understand, because people don't believe it, the courts get stacked so it continues on and on. >> honestly, what do you think the chances of this are? >> you make me feel like a divorced child. >> you make a statement, true, people out there could not believe in elections, but why do you phrase it just for one side? >> you haven't seen the show? >> back to george bush, people didn't believe.

each side gets angry when they lose. what you really need to do is bring the accountability into, so there's trust in elections -- >> no, no, no, the difference is when al gore -- al gore stepped aside eventually, because he knew that he and would say that he cared more about the country than he cared -- >> until supreme court -- >> -- and moving -- >> he didn't three years later, after every court in the land voted you know, judged against him. >> pause for one second. both candidates running for president are going to the border. we're debating something that's not going to be the top debate that's going through. it's a big issue, but the border is the number one issue in iowa, in new hampshire, and in south carolina. you've got two people who were president, are running and going down to the border on the exact same day. biden's going for the first time in over a year. 2.5 million people have come across that border. georgia just watched a young college student murdered in the

process. >> by the way, i do not disagree with you. i believe the border, abortion, and i would argue the economy will be the three central issues. >> you're 100% right. >> but kevin, if -- >> the question is, where does character and democracy fit in that and maybe you're saying it doesn't. >> no, it fits in, but what happens -- you can argue a lot of different points, but what is the most important thing on the voters' mind? your point is going to be a point by a certain set of people, but i can put another set of people who sit there and argue, what did hillary clinton say, about the georgia governor race? >> i fear when we talk about those things -- i hate the phrase misinformation, but i feel that these things have been given this kind of strange equivalency, and therefore people are not dealing with the same set of facts. >> there's a buildup to all of this on all sides. but what the individuals are sitting at home right now trying to get their kids off to school, wondering if they can pay their next house payment and others, and watching what's happening coming across the border every

day. those are going to be the priorities. what party is going to reach out and solve these problems? that is what the real debate will be about. >> kevin, if one side is going to say the very existence of the united states depends on this election, you have no defense to that. you have to address this right now. they can say, we're going to run joe biden -- he may not know where he is or who he is in three or four years -- >> that's so unfair. >> you see him when he's there's now and you have kmaiamala harr as the vice president, and all you have to say is, democracy is threatened, and all bets are off. you would elect a mannequin at that point. >> but at the same time, you've argued, and i'm curious what kevin thinks about that, is i think that you, underneath it all, would prefer if there was another candidate. maybe you wouldn't, i don't know. but my question is, and even to a joe or to somebody who's

thinking, well, maybe i don't love everything about president trump, but in your mind, it's binary and you look at biden and say, i don't like that. first, you say it's an age something. then we realize -- and i say, okay, let's put in gavin newsom, well, no, no, no, it's a policy thing! at what point -- where is it at which you would say, you know, i would take the other choice, because this is not great? >> look, i think the number -- everybody's got challenges. everybody's got issues. and everybody is going to have to overcome them. the one thing i will say here is biden can't solve his problem. his problem is age. and when he goes out to make the argument, he shows his age again. assisi is not president of mexico. and i don't see -- >> but how does trump solve his problem -- he's being accused, and i know you believe most of it's political, i don't know if you believe all of it's political, there has been evidence at least in some of these cases of demonstrable

falsities and almost fraud that's been perpetrating on the american public and the courts. >> from the same point i would ask to you is do you think these cases would all come to fruition if he wasn't running for president? do you really think they would go after him new york on the valuation of his buildings. do you really think -- >> but my question to you is, if this individual has done even some of these things, does that disqualify him? obviously not in your mind. >> everything of why -- the frustration that people have, when you use power to go after somebody because you politically have a difference of opinion, and every time the democrats have done this to president trump, it has raised his ability -- >> i don't disagree, but i don't know what the right answer is, insofar as so if you believe in law and order, which i know you believe -- >> i firmly believe -- >> and if you believe for even half a second of the 91 whatever counts we're on at this point,

that something illegal has happened, it is unclear to me whether you are supposed to say, you know what, he's running for president, we don't want to upset the electorate, so we're just not going to do this, right? that doesn't make sense either. >> it doesn't make sense if you think someone has broken the law, but we're not going to bring him before the court because we don't think they have the mental capacity, but they have to be sitting in the strongest office in the entire world? so i can argue -- >> i read -- by the way, i was disappointed ed in that report. i thought it was upsetting and there was part of me that thought it was -- >> upsetting? >> it was 100% upsetting, because here was -- >> i feel we're a country that is going to have to tell our elderly father we're going to take the keys away from him. but the problem is, he is the leader of the free world. so you can't sit back and say it's just upsetting. i personally have been in situations that i walked out not telling the press what transpired, but was deeply upset

as an american of what i just saw transpire, just hoping that he doesn't have any interaction with another world leader with the interaction that i just had with him. so, yes, there is a real concern here. and i think that would be on top of everything else, because he's at a power point right now, and i've watched it day in and day out. if he has to walk down to something, i worry about it. >> i'm not doing to dissuade you or anybody else or myself that he's older and looks older and acts older. there's no question, but then i see him on seth meyers and he doesn't seem -- he seems to be completely with the program. that was -- no? >> listen, what i want to have happen is something that hasn't happened the last two elections for president. i want it to be about the future of america. let's have an election about issues. >> but then the question is, you would argue that neither of these candidates are about the future of america. they're both about things that have nothing to do with that. >> i don't get to anoint who the nominees are, but i get to participate in the system.

and that's why -- that is the idea of a republican democracy. that is our opportunity. so we are -- our microcosm of society, so we reflect what's happening. we have a major debt problem that's going to hit a wall. that no one's debating about. we have a border crisis that's happening that we're seeing. we've got fentanyl coming across that's the number one killer of our youth, not the people on the streets, but the elite kids that are sitting in the biggest colleges in america today from the wealthiest universities and families are dying and waking up. you have an economy that you're worried about where it's going to go. an energy crisis happening. all of this can be solved if we work together. but the challenge is, we're continuing dividing. there's differences between you two, but there's a place in the middle that both of you love the country. >> i wouldn't tell you that all of those things aren't happening, and they are, the big question i would ask, we talk about the economy and business here at the table, if all -- if it's as bad as you say it is, and maybe it is, and i don't

know, maybe you think the stock market is not reflective of things, but i remember when the trump bump was happening, people said, oh, my goodness, it's the trump bump! the trump economy is -- >> and democrats said the stock market has nothing to do with the state of the country -- >> and now it's on the other side. >> you guys work the upcoming data very important. zb >> great opportunities. but you know what america wakes up to, could i go buy a house? they look at the interest rates and they're saying, no, could i buy a bigger house? i'm locked into the one i have now because of the interest rates. that's the economy they look at. that's what they wake up in the morning before they turn on "squawk." so that is what people are going to have the emotion of the vote. so who is best going to deliver a country that they think they're safer and more secure in? both parties have challenges. i have a challenge within my own party. i don't know what's transpiring right now, that i see people who are trying to say they're conservatives when they're not. when i say they're trying to

change a foreign policy that i think puts the world in jeopardy, too. so we have internal battless inside that we need to have that debate within the republican party. i watched people who voted against the debt ceiling, who are now fighting for it in the shutdown, because they voted against the biggest cut in american history. >> so the chance that joe biden is the nominee at this point is 100% in your view? >> i would never say 100% based upon age, but i would say 99 -- >> you think trump -- >> who should trump pick as vice president? >> i think he'll play "apprentice" and make them all dance for a while. but remember this, when he picked pence, pence had endorsed against him two months prior. if i was sitting in that position wibld simply say, it's about addition, not subtraction. where am i weak and what adds to the ticket and who could do the job? >> who would that be? >> there's a lot of people out there, but i would make sure -- and it's not just the vice

president, it's building out your entire cabinet. i would add more people in, and i would look, too, from the same point, he could find, and this is the uniqueness about president trump, he could pick somebody outside of the party, inside the cabinet, too. that is not unheard of in past administrations. the person that can unite this country, because we are so divided, not just on this table, i think is the one that people will look to long-term. you have to govern after you win. >> i have a money question, since you've been the ultimately the fund-raiser for the republican party for a very, very long time, how is he going to raise money? >> trump? >> yeah. >> trump's biggest fund-raisers is online. >> does he need it? >> does he need it? yeah, everybody needs money to get your message out, but this is going to come down to five states. is he going to have enough money -- >> will the folks who are giving money to nikki haley start giving it to him directly or give it to the rnc who will give it to him. how is it going to work? >> he's going to raise money. both candidates will raise

money. it just depends -- both candidates are well known, both candidates already have their policies before them. so is money going to determine this election? no. what's going to happen with money is the underlying -- who controls the house, who controls the senate. >> haley voters will finally go for trump? >> many of them could. you know, you're sitting in a primary -- i know a lot of people say it's 40% -- but remember, he won 60% in her home state. people come home, but you use the resources to get the message out to show the differences and show what you can accomplish. >> mr. speaker, former speaker, thank you. >> once a speaker, always a speaker. >> i always enjoy coming on here. >> cuckoo's nest versus bernie's.

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welcome back to "squawk box." rick santelli here, live at cme hq with the breaking news of the morning. our preliminary look, january preliminary look on durable good orders. we're expecting down 5% and it is worse, it is down 6.1%. that is the biggest negative mo month-over-month percentage change since april of 2020, the dark covid years. and if you look in the rearview mirror, the unchanged of last month now becomes down 0.3. the reason this is specifically important to look at the last few months and how far down it's gone is november, the previous month, was up 5.54, which was the best since july of 2020. so basically, what's happened is, we had this big artificial

boost of growth at the end of last year, and it's all dissipating plus more beginning of this year. it's preliminary, it could change. ex-transportation. it's down 0.3%. that's a half a% lower than we expected. but it does underscore where the most negative aspect of the headlines came from, transportation aircraft. down 0.3%, equals in october. you have to go to april of '23 to have a bigger change. capital goods, ex-aircraft, a proxy for capital spending comes in exactly as expected at up 0.1. and finally, if we go to shipments versus orders, they skyrocketed. this is interesting. they're up 0.8%. that is the best number since january of last year. the best number in about exactly a year. so, with shipments doing better and orders down, you almost get the impression that we're kind of getting caught up, but what lies ahead may not look as good.

we see interest rates for the most part are lower across the curve, reversing the dynamic yesterday, we're short maturities seem to have been more buoyant to the upside on yields. last $169 billion of supply comes in today at $42 billion seven-year notes, the only maturity not at record size. andrew, back to you. >> okay, rick, thank you for that. i want to get straight over to steve liesman who's looking at those numbers. steve, what do you think? >> the headline on this one, andrew, is a boeing headline. they had apparently zero orders in the month of january after a strong december. that's the headline number, which is influenced greatly by non-defense civilian aircraft, down 59%. but also, you saw autos down as well. my understanding was that vehicle assembly actually increased in the month, so not clear what's in here. this is a very mixed report. rick was right to point out the shipments number on the capital goods, which feeds into gdp.

that's going to help a little bit. and he's right again that the new orders number suggests a slowing in capital expenditures, very important for the health of the economy. computers did well inside the support, just about everything else did badly. unclear what's happening at the, i guess you would call it at the c-suite level, andrew. that's something that we'll have to keep investing in here, which is, what is the view right now of companies when it comes to investing, investing in capital equipment? where, if at all, is any of this investment in ai showing up in these numbers. perhaps it's in the computer numbers and that's sucking out all of the investment from other areas, as well. watch this carefully. i'll show you real quickly, see what's happening with the probabilities, kansas city's schmidt, talked last night from kansas city, and he came in where you thought we would come in, kind of on the hawkish side of things, suggesting fed should not be preemptively cutting interest rates and talk about keeping the quantitative

tightening going. and one quick look at the probabilities over here on my screen. and it's, march is out, nobody is really thinking much about may. you've got to get to june for when the market begins, andrew, to price in a rate cut with a 63%, 64% probability. andrew? >> okay, steve, thank you for that. appreciate it. smart stuff. >> sure. >> in continued stealth tightening, that's what our next guest says he's most concerned about in the markets. joining us now to elaborate, noah blackstain, senior portfolio manager at dynamic funds. so you think conditions right now are tight, too tight, noah? >> well, real rates are tight. we've obviously had a pickup here. we'll get a pce that's probably a little on the hot side, because of some of the numbers here in january. but for the most part, i think, the larger concern is that inflation really fell toward the end of the year, rates are still 5.25. you're looking at very high historically real rates. and continued runoff of the

balance sheet with qt draining and eventually the draining of reserves with that. so, you know, i think that there's real numbers and then there's sort of hypotheticals. and i think the damage one can do by leaving rates way too high for way too long, significantly outweighs the damage by slight cuts later on in the year. i think, though, that we're in a new narrative. i think that from november of '21 until probably last summer, that it was all about raising interest rates, regardless of the economy, but that, at least is now over, i think, if there is pronounced weakness, perhaps, it's much more likely that the fed is going to act on rate cuts. i think there's a lot -- there's been a lot of nervousness over the near-term on some of the inflation numbers, so we'll have to see how overall they play out, but you know, you've got st strange weather in a general and seasonals and residuals, so we really need more than just one month's data to play out. but my larger concern is that

they decide not to do anything if inflation keeps falling. and that's -- that would be a problem for the economy for sure. >> a lot of cross-currents, though, all in an election year, because it seems like the work the fed did so far, you can't really point to anything in the economy that looks like it's really -- i don't know, maybe you can. but you know, employment is still low. gdp is still strong. so at this point, it looks like we've been able to weather the interest rate increases, the normalization of interest rates. and it doesn't seem to be any reason at this point why the fed would cut, roother than, it's a election year. >> see, i disagree. i think inflation keeps falling. if we get down to like 2, 2 1/2, you're talking about real rates and nearly 300 basis points. that's pretty high. i think you can target real rates, you know, real rates even

at 150 or something like that. so the outlook -- >> so you don't believe january. you don't believe either one -- you don't believe the cpi or the ppi. >> no, we're running 3, 325, and they're kind of leaving rates where they are. i think importantly, the economy seems to have weathered this -- you know, the greatest tightening cycle in 70 years. so we've certainly weathered that. and you know, positioning is such that we have over 8 trillion sitting in money market funds today. you know, so if we look at it overall, there's clearly -- the economy has weathered it. there's money out there and things like that. if they're not lowering interest rates because the economy is strong, that's not a bad thing for equity investors. in fact, if they're drastically slashing rates for equity investors, we're probably in serious ecotrouble for the econ. bond investors talk too much anyway. but for equity investors, a strong economy and good earnings is important with falling inflation. i don't think that's a bad scenario for the stock market

overall, and for equity investors in particular. >> okay. all right, noah. we will, we'll watch. a lot of cross-currents, but good to have you on this morning. >> nice to see you, joe. take care. when we come back, the quote, urgent risk that's leading new york state comptrollertop dinapoli to cut some big-name investments. this gets right at the heart of the esg debate. you dot nt tn'wao go anywhere. we'll dig into it all right after this. gger legs on a t rude. who are you? i'm an investor in a fund that helps advance innovative sports tech like this smart fitness mirror. i'm also mr. leg day...1989! anyone can become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq, a fund that gives you access to nasdaq-100 innovations. i go through a lot of pants. before investing carefully read and consider fund investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and more in prospectus at invesco.com.

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. chevron warning that its $53 billion deal for hess could be at risk, that's because exxonmobil says it may preempt chevron from acquiring a significant stake in an oil block off the coast of south america's guyana, thought to contain at least $11 billion barrels of oil. exxon leads a drilling consortium in the waters with hess and a chinese company as minority partners and chevron proposed buying hess last year, largely to obtain that stake in the guyana project. okay. new york's state pension fund, the third largest in the u.s., is cutting some of its investments in energy companies. the new york fund will divest corporate bonds and actively manage public equity holding in

eight gas companies that tom dinapoli thinks aren't ready for the transition to a low-carbon economy. in a release this month, dinapoli saying, quote, climate change is an increasingly urgent risk facing all investors and i am determined to protect the state's pension fund by keeping it at the forefront of efforts to mitigate risks to our investments. new york comptroller, tom dinapoli joins us right now. good morning to you, tom. we appreciate you joining us. i'm so curious about how you came to this conclusion and whether, frankly, you have any anxiety that when it comes to returns for your pension years, that you won't be collecting as much as you could otherwise. >> well, you know, we're always looking at the long-term. and we made a decision a number of years ago that climate change is a material risk to our if you wanted, to our investments, and

ultimately to our members. so we developed a climate action plan and have been going through a process with various sectors of the energy economy, first of all, to really assess whether or not companies are what we call transition ready. do they have business plans that comport with the goals of the paris agreement, the emerging law carbon economy, because we feel for the long-term and the pension fund is a long-term investor that those are better bets for us. we just completed the process of looking at our integrated oil and gas oldings and transition readiness we measure with minimum standards, i want to emphasize the word minimum, but some of the companies fell short in terms of our assessment, and we did do a restriction in terms of the overall portfolio, it's a relatively small amount, but i think it sends a message to exxon that they need to up their game. >> how much of this is about sending a message as it is trying to capture the best return on a long-term basis? and how do you decide on the

timing of these things, meaning, frankly, you could have argued two or three years ago the prevailing view about how quickly evs were coming, for example, was that they were going to come much faster than they ultimately have. i could see the view today, unless you're arguing contrarian to the particular view, is that evs in that transition are a lot slower, and maybe the value of these kinds of companies have been on quite a run are more worthwhile and maybe you should have taken this position three, four, five years from now. >> investing is always a question of judgment. we still have significant holdings in exxon. we are limiting our active management and our corporate bonds, as you point out. it is part of a process. we have a very deliberate process to make an evaluation, z and it's not just a quoef estio limiting or restricting some of the investments. we're looking to increase our investments, we're doubling our

commitment to our climate solution investment program. and we are continuing to be very involved on the engagement front. this whole discussion came out of the very serious movement a couple of years ago to really talk about divestment across the board. in new york at the state level, we took a slightly different position. we said, you can't deal with a climate change issue by di divedi divesting your way out of it. but investors have a role to play again from the perspective of derisking. the major oil companies that we've continued to be invested in, we've made a judgment at a minimum level that they seem to get it. they're making some efforts to be part of the transition. exxon fell short in that regard. but because of our concern about returns, because much of our public equities are through passive investing, we are not in any way undermining the strategy of our fund. >> here's a question for you. maybe it's a moral question,

maybe it's an investing question. many years ago, you may remember that calpers divested of its stakes in gun manufacturers. i've read a lot an gun manufacturers and the role that wall street and finance plays for them in a very long. i think my feelings about guns are very well known. but truth is about divesting of those gun manufacturers ultimately lost the pension years of calpers, something on the order of $1 billion or $2 billion that they otherwise would have made. do you think that that is a fair and good trade-off in the scheme of your responsibilities as a fiduciary, but also somebody who's in an elected role? >> i do. because, look, again, long-term, pension funds are going to be around forever. we're not just looking at short-term results. i think guns is a risky investment, given regulatory environment laws and, obviously, after the school shootings,

where we have a pension fund, we have to be concerned about the gun issue. new york divested from guns as well. but when we do a divestment, whether it's the energy stocks we're talking about today or guns, before we make the final decision, we do an economic analysis. and that's why, andrew, when we made the judgment to do the restriction on the actively managed exxon part of the portfolio, we made a judgment that it would not be consistently with our fiduciary duty to take exxon out of the index. so we do make an economic judgment to be in the best interest of our members, and before we make any decision about any restriction, we make that economic analysis. we get a fiduciary counsel opinion. we did that when we divested our gun holdings. they were very small holdings in new york. i don't know what the numbers were nor california. even when you're talking about the exxon holdings now, you're talking about $26 million out of a portfolio of $260 billion. that is not violating our fiduciary responsibility. but we do want to see exxon up

its game, be part of the transition. that will make them a better company for us in the long-term to be invested in. >> so the -- i'm just trying to understand. i remember, larry fink got a lot of grief for some comments that -- in davos, i think, that we are forcing people's behavior to change, and i'm wondering whether that's what a fiduciary of a pension plan, whether you feel like you should bring that into your purview of what it is you're doing for a living. you think that your long-term returns could be, for your pensioners, could be negatively affected by climate changes' affect on exxonmobil, because they haven't transitioned? is that what you're saying? or are you trying force behavior to grease the skids for the transition to clean energy? which is it you're trying to do? are you trying to maximize return to pensioners? >> yes.

yeah, yes. the latter point. we're not trying to force a change in behavior. we are taking the position that climate change is a risk. it's a risk to the planet, but also a risk to investors. and companies that are smart and are incorporating that risk into their business plans are risk i their business plans are going to be better positioned for the reality of where this world is moving to. climate change is real and it costs a lot of money across the board. we all need to be engaged in dealing with that issue, including investors. if you're invested in companies that aren't assessing that risk and responding to it and anticipating the changes coming down and the economy that is developing, even it may be developing slower than some of us perhaps would like or thought it would be, that's a risk to our long-term investments. we're not day traders. we're looking long term. >> by 2015 there are estimates that demand for fossil fuels is not going to decrease by 2050.

in fact, it's going to rise -- it's a big number, exactly how much you're going to need. you don't think the risks of exxon cutting back on fossil fuel exploration and production, the risk is greater to your pensioners that they're not involved satisfying global demand for hydrocarbons for the next 25 years than they are -- i don't even understand how you think the risk of -- so there's going to be a lot of storms if we don't transition enough, and all the coal plants in china, the 300 they're building, and in india, that somehow exxon's actions by not transitioning fast enough are going to hurt your pensioners? the only thing i see is that you are morally forcing behavior. it has nothing to do with trying to maximize returns, because you're doing the wrong thing in my view. >> we're doing the right thing which is why we're one of the

best public funded pension plans in this country. >> the paris accord is real. we want to be part of a successful transition. exxon mobil and other major oil and gas companies need to be part of diversifying their business model. look, it's going to go in fits and starts, and some of this geltz very caught up in u.s. politics these days, but there is a movement that's under way. climate change is real. it's a material risk to investors as well. i think we've struck the right balance. often we get pressure, you should sell owl your oil and gas stocks. we don't take that position. we want to be part of the transition. >> that's a political position. let me ask you a different question, and this is the final piece. we've talked to a lot of investors about the paris climate accord 2050. there are a lot of people that are at least privately or quietly betting against 2050. when i say betting against it, betting it's going to change. betting that the goals are not

going to be met and, therefore, the goal posts will ultimately shift. if the goal posts shift, does that change the investment philosophy and, frankly, how long-term you think about oil and gas versus evs and solar and the like? >> look, i think it's right to have ambitious goals in new york state by law we have ambitious goals. for our portfolio we have a goal of net zero by 2040, ahead of the 2050. by definition, if for various factors you fall short of some of those goals, you do have to change the mile posts. this is an evolving area. we're going to stay on top of what we think is the right thing to do, to protect the long-term retirement security of our 1.2 million new yorkers who depend on this pension fund. >> tom, i hope it works. i'm a new yorker, thank you. m,ppreciate it. we'll be back in just a moment. "squawk box" returns after this.

home improvement giant lowe's beating profit and revenue estimates for its latest quarter. macy's saw a mixed quarter with earnings per share, revenue slightly missing expectations. joins us on these retail results, sush shah rita fid dali, research analyst, brick

and mortar, we're going to talk brick and more. can we engage these two things about the economy or retailing writ large? >> well, there are good and bad stories in retail. that's really what has been the story over the last couple years is that there are the big winners, multi category, multi brand retailers, amazon and walmart. then you have a lot of the other sectors. certainly the department store sector has been challenged. mile whas see easy think did better than expectations, the overarching arc is not a positive one. lowe's may have exceeded expectations, but the challenge is that consumers are due to interest rates, not buying homes or at the level they were in the

past. that's going to have an effect on the entire diy sector. > >> in terms of the consumer -- we're supposed to say she. but would you say that the outlook is really, really positive in an arena where, i don't know, it just seems like we're starting to see the pandemic relief programs depleted, interest rates are higher, mortgage rates are higher. is there anything really positive for retailers as far as the consumer goes right now sucharita? >> the consumer is actually continuing to spend. the issue is that the consumer isn't spending with some of these big brands that maybe shareholders would like to see them spent. so therein lies the conundrum.

it's been an issue pretty much since inflation has been problematic in 2022 which is that consumer confidence is low, and there are a number of shoppers that say that they are unhappy with the economy, but they're still spending. the overall, overarching numbers about consumer spend is actually very, very positive. we're at record high levels of spend. a lot of that spend is going into the food sector. it's going into eating out. it's going into some of these mass merchants. it's not going as much into some of these home categories and department stores, apparel, a lot of the categories that we typically think of when we think of retail. >> it just seems like we're constantly waiting for things to turn south. no one really thinks all of a sudden there's going to be a boon in consumer spending.

sucharita, thanks for coming in this morning. final check on the markets. we're down about nine points right now on the dow. nasdaq is a little bit higher. >> nice hanging out with you, my friend. >> are you going have a drin snk. >> i've got some water. >> maybe some electrolytes. make sure you join us tomorrow. "squawk on the street" is next. ♪ good tuesday morning. welcome to "squawk on the street." i'm david faber with jim cramer. we're live at the new york stock exchange. carl is on assignment. let's get to futures as we get set for trading a half hour from now. i always defer to jim on that because i don't know what it means. >> it's early. >> it's early. let's get to our roadmap. we're kind of on dea