i want to have him on. don't you want to have him on, sorkin? >> yeah. >> it was when he was going to get margin calls, he doubled down, and now, all-time high on the stock. down85 now on the dow. take a quick look at the nasdaq, also lower. it is probably the big story, back above 60. it's been a couple years, but there it is. join us tomorrow. thank you. thank you. big special coming up tomorrow night. >> 10:00 p.m. eastern time and pacific. >> "squawk on the street" is next. ♪ good wednesday morning, welcome to "squawk on the street," i'm david faber with jim cramer. we are live from post nine at the new york stock exchange. carl is on assignment. let's give you a look at futures. it's hump day for me and jim. that's what we like to call it. looks like we're going to open lower. what's going on? what happened? >> it's just that kind of -- it's just desultory.

right now, there is nothing that is earth-moving. >> that is a great way to lead off the show. >> i have unbelievable stuff. >> okay. let's get to our road map this morning. it does start with apple's ev aboutface, reportedly abandoning its decades-long efforts to develop an automobile, turning its focus to generative a.i. shares have underperformed so far this year. continued signs of a robust economy, healthy consumer spending certainly one reason why and goldman's ceo thinks a soft landing is "uncertain." and the doj turning its focus to health insurance. it is launching an antitrust investigation of the giant. unh. >> unh is really under siege. it's a great american company. it's under siege like almost no other between the hack and the justice department. >> we'll talk about that.

that said, it's doing pretty well for a company under siege. let's talk about another company that's done pretty darn well for a very long period of time. that is apple. of course, you've seen these published reports. any number of them, by the way, at this point. so, we do believe it is the case that they are scrapping what's been that really decade-long effort. i can't believe it's been that long since we first started hearing about it. yeah, we're going to build potentially an ev. sources have told bloomberg that some of the employees on the project are going to be transferred to the a.i. division, of course, generative a.i. becoming so important, tim cook saying as much recently, jim. give me your broader thoughts and we'll talk about apple itself, which there continue to be some questions about in terms of at least the overall performance of the stock this year. >> sure. happy to go over that. look, i think that they were making a major bet that they were going to wait for a major tech breakthrough, like the robo taxi, but in the interim, they

were thinking about the consumer, but they could only feel like after cruise, the debacle that has been cruise, and the fact that the level 4 av from waymo has not been commercial, that they should not do this. the time is not ready for it, and there may not be a time within the near future that is worth focusing on this. in other words, it's just not economic. it's not commercial. >> right. >> and that was determined. we could sit back and say, why don't they want to be in something that's not commercial? i think that what they don't want to do is be like alphabet. >> what does that mean? >> doing waymo for how many years and not producing anything that is giving you a profit. i mean, i've been in waymo. i've been in cruise. i felt safe in cruise, and ten days later, they pulled it. waymo, they were advertising that i could take a waymo from the airport to a certain place a couple years ago, and it

didn't -- geographically sh wasn't allowed to go to another place. there's real constraints. >> we're not ready to spend -- far further away than we might have anticipated, even sitting at this desk five years ago when i remember talking about it with great enthusiasm, and it was coming, and it was coming. i can remember this conversation i had many years ago with travis from uber telling me, oh yeah, looking down at new york, because we were up -- it's all going to be automobiles without drivers. we're not going to need parking garages anymore. >> it was a failed vision. >> hospital emergency room visits will be down. >> failed vision. >> it will come, though, at some point. >> yes, but why should apple -- apple is not a company that is focused on its stock price, but they are focused on whether something's commercial. i don't know about the a.i. shift. i mean, i think that, what are you going to do, say we're going to send all those people to ford? they're not going to do that. i think this is a reason to like apple, and as you notice, apple was at $179.50 when this news

broke. it dropped to $179, and then it went to $181, then $182, because there are a lot of people who are saying, you know what? apple is not as efficient as what we've seen from meta. and alphabet is the least efficient. now, some people feel that the long knives are out for alphabet, and i'm part of it, and i don't mean to do that. i think it's a great company. i think that they've chosen to be -- have a part of their business that's never going to be commercial. and i don't think that's the right way to approach this. >> well, it's interesting you bring up alphabet, because there has been -- i mean, deirdre bosa did an excellent job yesterday encapsulating a lot of the concerns out there. they're not as much focused on waymo and/or projects that have yet to generate any return on invested capital. it's much more concern about the core business, and the lack of urgency that some see at alphabet in terms of dealing with generative a.i. moving forward with it. obviously, potentially, disrupting what has been one of the greatest businesses, as i

said yesterday, in capitalism that we've ever seen. >> i go to copilot, where i used to go to google search. >> you do? >> every day. i still go to google search. >> we all do, of course. >> but not for something that's complex, because i know it will send me to something that's advertised anyway. >> again, there's a response to all of this, so i don't want to make it seem as though it's a one-sided argument. of course it's not. but there are those who say, look what zuckerberg was able to do at meta because he's the founder and when he says go, they go, and the year of efficiency, the pivot that he took. look at what elon musk can do at tesla. >> you're talking about people who are intensely competitive and rigorous, and people do not feel that alphabet is like that. >> thank you. it's not founder-led. your two founders are checked out. >> remember they had two health care companies within one, and they were having a face-off like

"lord of the flies." what are they doing? >> do we look back at this moment -- >> if it's the moment they listened to the media, yes. >> this is a moment where it's incredibly hard for -- >> did you have sunday ticket? >> no, no. >> i want you to compare that you do next year. what andy jassy did with thursday night football on amazon using analytics, making it so it's incredibly exciting, of which jassy and i went over this when i interviewed him. it's amazing how much he cares to the detail because he's so competitive. and then look at the throwaway nonsense that google did with the nfl. >> yeah. >> running pictures of cats in the final quarters when they could have done ads for draftkings. they leave more money on the table than almost any company i've ever seen. and they're not efficient, by their own -- by their own admission, they're not efficient. i mean, let's do drones, let's not do drones. let's do balloons, let's not do

balloons. let's do robots, forget robots. what is it? there are universities that are run more -- >> rigorously in terms of at least focusing on the p&l? >> thank you for -- yeah. i don't want to focus on that stuff because that's private. some people choose to make those discussions public. i make them private. >> i don't know what you're talking about. >> the discussions about issues involving free speech. >> oh, all right. well, we don't need to go there right now. let's get back to apple. >> sure, i think apple, win. google, no. >> you got to do that sometimes, and lord knows they have the billions to spend. >> well, okay, so, look at a headline we have now. apple shares down 5%. i have made my career based on two things. one is own it, don't trade it, nvidia, and own it, don't trade it to apple. even the naysayers, whoever the hell they are, have had to admit i have two courses. this thing is secretariat. i went to secretariat's grave to

pay homage. >> as you should. greatest horse in history. >> i'm not worried. >> there has not been significant revenue growth in a long time. they're only as good as the iphone that's out there right now. services a, an incredibly important business. >> i think we're going to be looking at watching "masters of the air" on our vision pro. i like the stripped-down apple sports app that just came down last week which gives you an alert that your team is close, maybe you should put it on. >> i like that. i like that a lot. i'm not sure i need it to see it for mets preseason games. >> true. >> maybe the only season that matters. >> don't be so down. >> sorry. >> i just think that apple comes up with things because say eddy cue wants something, and you can do it. they're entrepreneurial. >> all right. >> down 5%. now i'm really freaking out. >> by the way, i wish they had developed a car. apple play is great, but the -- i mean, there are a lot of car

makers, particularly out of germany, i would posit, that make amazing cars but when it comes to the interface with the consumer, they haven't figured that out yet. i was looking forward to apple taking over the whole control. >> we haven't even mentioned audi, mercedes-benz, and you know who. >> right. >> i haven't mentioned them yet today. >> why not? >> i figured it's 9:09. i figured i'd mention jensen at 9:10. >> there is that drinking game. >> there is a jensen drinking game. >> they tweeted it yesterday. >> it's so repulsive. >> and i said, how do these guys wake up in the morning? >> they should take the glp-1. >> they missed it. the first ten minutes is over. they don't watch until nighttime, apparently. >> can we go back to apple down 5% and say, you know what? swapping out of apple into ethereum. there you go. ethereum. and i'm going to start an etf. >> okay. >> cramer etf ethereum. make a fortune. >> absolutely. >> why would you ever be in

something that could go down when you can be in something that can only go up, ethereum? >> hopefully our viewers understand sarcasm. >> i'm not sure. >> sometimes it's tough. >> i'm not sure it's sarcastic. >> what do you mean? >> do you think ethereum is really going to go down -- an amazing -- granted, she does a fantastic doc tonight, and we want to watch it. >> i think it's tomorrow night. >> shoot. yeah. sorry. that was bad. but, you know, she mentioned, look, there could be a -- any minute, we could have an etf for ethereum. so, then, this plays out again. look, i'm sorry. i mean -- >> bitcoin $60,000. >> put up a chart of bitcoin versus apple. let's just tell it as it is. bitcoin versus apple. we could do a bitcoin show, and everyone who's under 26 would tune in, and you know what? we could then go to colgate and procter and make a fortune, because that's who they're trying to reach. >> i like the way you're thinking, son. >> i'm so right on this, it's

repulsive. >> all right. >> apple cancels ev. no. have you looked at bitcoin today? >> no, i never look at bitcoin. >> there you go. look. you want -- there's underperformance, okay? >> okay. >> it's depressing. >> i don't want to -- >> what has bitcoin ever done for mankind? do you have a bitcoin phone? watson, come here, i need you. >> well, coming up, united health care is apparently in the doj's crosshairs. we're going to explain that. we got about 18 minutes before we get started with trading at the new york stock exchange, and we are looking for a lower open as you can see right there. >> all the money's going to my ethereum etfdad. t futures. we'll be right back after this. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain,

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keep an eye on shares of united health care. they are moving lower in the premarket. i want to take a look and see. yeah, i got them down about ten bucks. "wall street journal" reporting the justice department has launched an antitrust probe into

the nation's largest health insurer. actually, it was reported by some upstate new york local. >> i thought you might have talked to that reporter. >> i love that, because i start in newsletters. >> someone had a big scoop. >> when "the journal" said it was reported by you, which they did, but sources are also telling "the journal" that investigators have been interviewing health care industry representatives about several issues. that includes relationships between the company's jietd health care unit and its optum health services arm. they have some 90,000 physicians as part of that, jim. they're also dealing with this huge cyberattack on their change health care business. >> i don't think they -- >> it's not good. >> mainly from google, but the main thing is they've brought in nikesh arora from palo alto networks, and palo alto, obviously, when you bring in palo alto, it may be that they don't have a handle on it.

>> yeah. >> and palo alto's got to get a handle on it. i think we're in an era, david, where the nation states and the e-commerce criminals have the edge at this very moment. >> you do? why do you think that? >> because they're overwhelming. they're hitting everyone. not everybody's got -- is prepped. i mean, if you don't have a soup to nuts on premier league cloud, just, incredible hypershield, i don't know. i think jamie dimon is probably the guy we should talk to about this, because i think he's the one that has done the most in terms of figuring out what a.i. can do. >> yeah, when he was talking about it with leslie picker the other day. >> that's very good. >> back to -- >> nikesh has been brought in. >> there's so many things i want to ask you about, including the thing from palo alto. but let's get back to unh for a minute. >> do people know how big unh is? >> i don't think they do. it's a half a trillion dollar market cap, roughly speaking. $480 billion this morning. >> and the optum -- a lot of

people felt it was an advantage. i can't speak for the justice department, obviously, but i know that there are people who could argue and say, their business model is -- >> this is, again, the doj. we obviously have become accustomed to a more muscular antitrust enforcer over these last three years. we've talked more often about lina khan at the ftc, but jonathan kanter is -- >> kanter is a serious heavyweight lawyer. this case is one i want to know about. look, if i were at alphabet, i would be very concerned about his case that he's bringing in terms of advertising. especially with pubmatic. >> these cases take a very long time to develop. ultimately, if you ever do get there and they succeed, you could be talking about either sanctions of some kind or breaking the company apart. >> and if trump came in, conceivably they might not drop the investigation. there's a trump investigation trump started in the justice department against alphabet.

that's the one about the phone. >> i think, you know, there is a expectation, if there's a trump administration, that regulatory would become less involved. but that said, more unpredictable. >> but david, you spent a lot of time with the person who is in charge of antitrust under trump, who was a very serious -- >> absolutely. >> and i don't think you thought he was political. >> no. i didn't. he's a serious guy, rigorous guy. some people will question -- he obviously will defend to the end their decision to litigate the time warner-at&t deal. >> wow. >> and whether that was -- there was some political motivation there. obviously, he has said many times, absolutely not. they lost. >> let's go back to united health. is the -- is it the business model that they tie up everybody? see the eu last night against microsoft? >> no. >> saying their cybersecurity is a bundle product and if you take

their cybersecurity, you can't go over and say, take crowdstrike. a serious, not usual shakedown, eu. it's not like, write a check. >> yeah. >> so, i don't know. maybe we're getting -- if it's the business model of united health, which i always thought was the greatest business model in the world, because they have all the data, well, they're crushing everybody. >> they do have the data. they say that optum is completely at arm's length. >> kanter doesn't want to do tv. >> at some point, they'll come public, and maybe he'll do something. right now, it's just reports, starting with that upper hudson valley news. >> better than humana stock. >> yeah. health insurers always win, and we lose. >> yeah. although we don't have them as our insurer here at comcast. i don't know what it is. independence blue cross -- >> it's incredible. you go and no doctor takes it.

it's amazing. this is the most -- it's the biggest fiasco, and it's called medicare. i had one yesterday. the doctor says, i don't take medicare. i said, no one takes medicare, don't worry about it, i have my charge card. >> luckily, you're able to afford it. >> steve squeri, i got rid of medicare, i use amex. >> stop reminding us how old you are and start thinking about your "mad dash." we get started with trading about nine minutes from now. we are expecting a lower open. more "squawk on the street" straight ahead. s our business. we need to scale with customer demand... in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon. their solution for us? a private 5g network. (ella) we now get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) now we're even smarter and ready for what's next. (vo) achieve enterprise intelligence. it's your vision, it's your verizon.

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opening bell six minutes from now. let's get in a "mad dash." we're standing today. i like that picture. >> eh. >> i like it. let's talk tjx. the quiet giant retailer. >> that's what i wanted you to say. and i didn't do it to prompt you, but it has a huge retailer. just so you know, it has -- marmax, home goods, tjx, these are gigantic, gigantic companies and they reported, and you know what? the numbers were very good. there's an 11:00 conference call. this is the arc of tjx.

initially, numbers come out, and you see the earnings per share, and you see the revs, and they're terrific, much better than expected, and then you see the forecast. the stock goes from $100 to $102, than back to $100.50. under $100, goes to $99, and tomorrow, everyone raises their price targets, goes to $103. you don't need anything. i just gave it to you and i gave it to you without jensen or mini-jensen. >> we had a very strong finish to 2023. this is a quote from the company during the -- "and start the new year in a position of strength with the first quarter off to a good start." their guidance for the first quarter eps, 84 to 86 cents. street's -- >> that's -- look, if you look at lowe's, everyone said it was a disappointment. that's all generated by, you know, a.i. now, the stock's up very big. hd, lot of people say, that's

disappointing. up big. if you actually listen to the conference call, you would have known they're doing better than we thought. this one too. conference call at 11:00, they'll be talking about how well they do. it's just -- if you take a look at this, this chart is as -- the reason why i was as, let's say, as arrogant as i could have been about what the stock's going to do is because this is all it does. every single quarter, it does exactly what i describe. so i'm trying to get people to not sell it at $98, because tomorrow, all the analysts are going to say, raise price target, tjx. >> and to your point -- >> during the break, you and i will go to tjx and getsome slacks for 14 bucks. >> there is one right here if our viewers don't already know that. 11:00 a.m. conference call on tjx. >> there isn't a line they didn't beat. >> oftentimes the stock responds after the conference call, but they never talk. ever. never going to see the ceo. >> never complain, never explain. >> we're back after this.

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>> announcer: the opening bell is brought to you by nuveen, a leader in income, alternatives, and responsible investing. latest report shows fourth quarter economic growth revised to 3.2%.

most were expecting to come in at 3.3%. so, think about that. and here's the opening bell. going to be a lot more red on there. here at the big board, goldman-sachs, and at the nasdaq, critical metals, lithium mining company. lithium prices have declined dramatically in part because of what appears to be a slowing growth. >> correct. >> of the sales of evs, although people argue about that. >> they do a spac now. that would be something that i am sure there will be some people who want to buy. i don't find myself interested in that. works really hard to figure out what they own and what they

don't. these are two equity offerings that i will probably pass on for my travel trust. >> you pass on a lot of things for your charitable trust. >> can it make money? is it good? those are two incredibly important criteria. >> yes, they are. yes, they are. i agree with you. >> thank you. >> you and i are in agreement. >> ge has a terrific note out this morning. really one of the great notes. jeffries, talking about the investor day upcoming, march 6 and 7. just saying amazing things. we never talk about how great larry culp has been doing. >> i don't know if we never talk about it, because i feel like you mentioned it a number of times. >> oh. >> but it is worth -- >> i'm a broken record? >> it is worth focusing for a moment on really what has been an amazing turnaround. >> that's my point. >> that said, you are never going to get back to -- now, by the way, if you added up some of the value of the -- of health care, which has been jettisoned. >> what is it s? >> you get 21 bucks on that. you do get back -- listen, ge itself now, $167 billion market cap. it has been a great performer.

culp has -- >> i think the amazing thing is -- i used to go out for lunch with him, and i said, this is for novo, which is the wind, energy, black hole. at the same time there's this esg backlash, at the same time that people are saying, we have to be more worried about national security, and we have to worry about windmills. this thing is like -- i thought it was like "don quixote." it's a powerhouse. >> what is the jeffries note pointing to in terms of the positives? >> it says that aerospace is great, and i think it's got a better -- it's run better than boeing, and you can take that from me. i'm a genius on that. >> yes. >> i have the professor, mary ann, the millionaire and his wife, all agree. they are talking about mobilizing military. capital deployment in the next leg. it's a very exciting story, because dividend raise and buyback coming march, perhaps. >> when is the -- when is the investor day? >> this is -- investor day,

march 6 and 7. >> two days. >> yes. >> april spend is -- >> for novo, which is a really well-run that i told larry, you got to be kidding me. >> creating ge as more or less a pure play on aerospace. >> and military aerospace, and i think that people are going to -- one of the reasons why the stock has been incredible is obviously people feel that rtx technologies has been hurt. >> problems they have had. >> and i don't think i have to talk more about boeing, because we used to do that in the same way we talk about, i don't know, jensen. >> yeah. those should never be in the same sentence. >> not at all. >> i take that back. >> larry culp. i can remember our first interview wasn't the greatest when they were still having huge issues with the gas turbines, with that whole side of the business that was losing so much. the acquisition in europe was not -- but that wasn't him. >> no. he dismantled -- he's a person

who i felt did root and branch. i think he did the bishop tutu way to approach things. most people don't. most people say, i don't need to look back, and those are the people who fail. the people who don't look back are people who lack any sort of desire to deal with the pain of an institution that's been destroyed. larry, no. >> positive for ten years now. >> he's getting there. the patient will win with larry. >> he came from danaher. >> danaher has come back. >> it has been coming back. dana d danaher, which seemingly never had a bad year, had a few in terms of stock performance. >> like t. mo with covid. they spent a lot of money, bought the division from ge that was the high end -- not the ge health care. by the way, ge health care, travel trust owned, number one performing health care stock in the s&p.

gehc. >> there it is. >> they actually -- look at that, will you? >> that includes the -- remember the deal, one of the earlier deals, that's in there, i think. >> this is contrast mri, which is the way to deal with -- it's loaded with a.i. so, what happened, it's actually real a.i. as opposed to the joke a.i. we keep hearing about. >> when you say something like that, what do you mean? when you say something like real a.i. as opposed to the joke a.i.? >> let's say you're doing a contrast mri, and it shows you that there's a bump. there's a , let's say there's te cyst. it will tell you what are the odds that cyst may explode. so, then, you have to take it out or not. that's -- that's contrast a.i. relying on generative -- it's generative a.i. >> it is? >> it is generative a.i. >> it is? how is it generative a.i.? it's a.i., not generative a.i. it's just a.i. >> peter came on, a terrific ceo. pete. and he talked about the idea of

what you do is you try to figure out whether something is going to go wrong, and before it was guesswork. it would be like, wow, the doctor might say, that looks bad. now, we have maybe you should do the operation, maybe you shouldn't, based on generative a.i. >> right. >> i think that's an important advancement in health care. >> okay. >> that's generative a.i. that i think makes sense and helps the system. that's all. that's when jensen had in mind when he thought about the digital twin. now, david, we have not talked -- >> not about the digital twin. you lose everybody when you talk about the digital twin. >> my wife has something to say here. >> nobody understands what you've been talking about for years here with in digital twin. >> my wife has said, no more baconator, why? >> because they raised the price. >> she doesn't want to have to think, oh, it's 2:00, i can get it. and she said, by the way, just so you know, it's market versus limit order, baconator. >> all right. let's move on to ebay, shall we?

>> slightly better than expected. >> come on. you're over there, the stock is up even. >> you bring up ge. now you bring up this thing. it's advertising. >> revenue is up 2%. >> that's advertising >> yes. advertising is a very important component of all of these businesses. we talked about amazon. >> walmart, $3 billion in advertising. just imagine what costco does, if they even bother to charge for their ecom once they get e-commerce. >> i don't think of costco in the same way in terms of their -- >> no, because costco wants you to go to the stores. >> right. so, they would conceivably have a significant ad business if they had a significant -- >> ebay was nice. it did the number. i'm very excited for them. >> you're not excited at all. i'll move on. i can just tell from your tone. >> a lot of it's the german c to c initiative. how about the draftkings? we have a lot of things. david, i want to talk about the one that's most important that no one's talking about except for you yesterday. here's a loop capital piece about dell, upgrading, but

dell's got legitimate position in gen a.i. and there's a big pc refresh cycle, because as jensen would tell you, this pc is history. it's an intel-dominated pc, which therefore means, forget about it. >> and what does it mean for the future? you talked about it, but i think it's worth coming back to, in terms of what this pc of the future you discuss is going to actually do for us. >> i want reservations for four. i'm making reservations with my pc, new world. i want reservations for four at a restaurant that i have liked as you can tell from what i have been doing, and i want it made at 7:30. thank you. >> done. >> done. that's what jensen says it's going to be. >> when is this pc going to be available? >> in the fall. >> fall of this year? >> yeah. >> and who's going to make this pc? >> hp and dell. >> who's going to power that pc? >> jensen and amd. most of that's going to be amd. that's why lisa su can never be counted out. >> and where is intel in that

equation? >> they're incredibly nice. >> inkrcredibly nice. what about apple's m-2 chips? >> i think, well, you know -- >> by the way, they're continuing -- they're moving people back to our first story of the morning into generative a.i. efforts from this -- >> apple doesn't talk. >> they don't tell us. >> i'd like to know what happens in the next episode of "masters of the air." forget about it. it looks unbelievable on vision pro versus tv. >> are you still using your vision pro? >> no, i went to get my vision pro, and they told me it would be ready, and it wasn't. i complained on twitter about that. >> right. >> but i think that it's a product that is in short supply. south florida was in short supply. people think it's a dud. those are people who just say things. they didn't actually go to different stores to try to get them like i did. >> right. >> very important. this last episode was very jarring, by the way. >> you got any interest in

bumble? >> yes. they fired 300 people to become better. >> yeah, well, shrink to grow. >> yeah. are we on air? >> yeah, we're on air. >> because bumble was horrible. >> yeah, it wasn't good. >> i mean, they cut 350 people but they said it's going to be better. does that mean if they fire everybody it's really going to be better? >> the dating apps overall have been under pressure. i mean, look at match group. >> i'm not going to look at match group. my wife will divorce me. i tried that, by the way. bad thing. it's bad. >> i'm not sure you're the demographic they're looking for there, jim. >> is that true? is that like -- >> well, you're basically in a demographic that nobody e's looking for. >> yeah, exactly. when i look at bumble, there's a piece today that's positive. >> revolve? >> some of these companies came public during this moment and the stock -- look at the long-term chart of revolve, not so good. i do want to point out that

urban outfitters, buried within the quarter was unbelievable numbers from their clothing thing they have. it's doing incredibly well. nobody cares. i'm going to spend some time on it. this is an ugly day, david. we should be talking about ugliness. >> the s&p is down, what, 0.25%. not particularly ugly to me, but nasdaq is down almost 0.5%. >> have you looked at ethereum? >> no, i haven't. but there's an overall look at the market. you want to talk starbucks at all, jim? >> i think it was -- >> they -- the united with the workers united, they're beginning discussions on what they're calling a foundational framework, whatever that means. >> good. they better get the foundational framework of the afternoon cold drink. that's what i care about. this is an overhang, and a lot of people feel it's good, but in the end, what we want from laxman narasimhan are good numbers, not good taste. >> it hasn't gone particularly well so far. a number of things, completely

out of his control, as you said. >> the protests. >> the protests. >> it's an alleged jewish company, which it's not. >> it's not. >> everyone's afraid to talk about it. that's what happened. >> i don't know what that means. that has impacted them. >> that hurt sales. and of course, china, great piece this morning about the buildings that people don't seem to be gravitating toward. the chinese consumer, very weak. by the way, comimoney coming ou china, going into japan, is behind a lot of the big rally in japan, and the chinese can just sell our treasurys, but there's a belief that china financed the war in ukraine by taking all the russian oil. >> yeah, well, india's always taken some of that oil as well. >> not great. >> sanctions have not been particularly effective, have they, in preventing the russians from continuing their war.

take a look at the nikkei, which did hit new highs for the first time in -- since 1989. >> by the way, they could -- t not done going up, i think. >> japan? >> they're doing quite well. fund flows out of one country into another, these big country funds. >> and they are very large countries. hess came back and said, we got no issues. that was late yesterday. the story we led with yesterday, the dispute between exxon and chevron about a right of first refusal. hess's language was very strong, just saying, no way. no way we're closing this deal. i'm just sorry i'm looking for it right now. we believe the road for preemption provision does not apply to the hess merger due to the structure of the merger. it's a reverse triangular merger, by the way. and as described in the s-4, there's no possible scenario in which exxon or the chinese company that owns the remainder

after the 45% exxon, 30% hess, they own the rest of it, could acquire hess's interest in guyana as a result of the transaction. you do see a positive response to that language. we're going to keep an eye on that, though, because it's an interesting one. another one i mentioned yesterday that i'm continuing to keep an eye on because it is in the realm of m&a and some small group of viewers care is endeavor. they reported numbers, fourth quarter full year, 2023 results, $5.960 billion in 2023 revenue. obviously, they launched tko holdings, which reported the day prior. on their call, they didn't take any questions. they were like, we have potential pending transaction. they don't, as yet, have a bid. but we're not going to take any q&a. i got another update for people if they care, which is this thing's taking a long time. we know that. it's taken longer than anybody had anticipated for silver lake, which controls 71% of the vote in the company and is the only potential buyer here and has

indicated it will make a bid previously. it's taken a very long time for silver lake to make that bid. as i reported yesterday, expectations from the special committee side are a bid will be made. it has not yet been so. i'm hearing today from people familiar with the situation it will be at least another month before said bid is made. >> another month? >> yes. doesn't even mean, necessarily, that they'll reach a deal, although one would expect they have some sense in terms of where they'd like to be in terms of price. jim, you can come up with any number of reasons as to why. one thing i'm hearing is any number of the silver lake funds through the years have invested at different levels and different parts of the capital structure at various entities associated with endeavor, whether it's mme or now, tko. there's a question of some litigation that's coming up in april, although some people dismiss that. financing. i'm left wondering -- >> i don't get it. >> going to be another month.

that's all i can tell you. >> i want questions answered. can i give you two that are positive? >> yes. >> okay. first, a real solar company. a lot of the other others, enphase, stephens reports on, turned out to be more financing plays. first solar is a commercial play. that's what we like on "mad money." then we had chip bergh and then michelle gass. >> what was the news on first solar? >> great quarter. >> okay, thank you. >> levi strauss is up substantially since they were on. and then contour brands, disappointed, so we have a new winner and champion of jeans, and it is levi strauss, not contour brands. >> what is contour brands? >> lee, wrangler. >> okay. i didn't realize that. >> yeah, and look, we've got vf corm. >> i thoughtthat was vf corp. >> they bought them off. >> how do you -- i don't even --

i couldn't even tell you what i had for breakfast this morning. how do you remember that stuff? it's amazing. >> i don't know. wesson spun off by conagra. >> there it is. look at how they spell kontoor. right there. >> kontoor has been doing well. >> i'm unhappy with them. >> is levi now the one people like? i think wesson versus conagra is another painful one. these are companies that spin off other companies, and maybe the spinoff -- >> is not worth investing in. >> or it's better. kontoor's numbers were disappointing, and i have to dig deeper on that. >> i don't really remember -- was the spin done -- is that a no-growth business? did they settle a lot of debt on it? >> vf corp. is -- >> vf corp. has been having its own issues. >> they brought in bracken darrell, who, by the way, is logitech but also pg. we have people that will get to

the bottom of it, but vf corp. has been very difficult. i have to get into asics because they're being used aggressively for bitcoin right now. >> what, what? >> david, i want younger people to watch us. i don't just want to talk about blue owl all day. >> blue owl has been great. >> good piece about them. >> blue owl, alternative asset, private credit. we don't talk about that enough at all. take a look at the owl, man. >> the private credit piece today, there was a private credit, you got to own. which one was private credit today? i don't know. every day, there's a private credit. >> let him deal with all that stuff. we're going to the bond report right now. >> apollo upgraded. i think apoll o's chariot is on of the scariest rides ever. >> check out treasurys, ten-year. that's where it was yesterday. we haven't moved at all. all right, we'll be right back.

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laggards on the nasdaq. >> that's because of investigation about china, by the way. >> you heard that. amd which we mentioned earlier, also a laggard. and there's alphabet up. >> mongodb -- >> mongo. >> it's a real company. >> i know. get ready for stop trading, will you, jim? with robust chag and analysis tools, including over 400 technical studies. tailor the platforms to your unique needs with nearly endless customization. and track market trends with up-to-the-minute news and insights. trade brilliantly with schwab.

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you can get two unlimited lines for just $30 each a month. there are no term contracts or line activation fees. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. wireless that works for you. it's not just possible, it's happening. let's do some stop trading. >> yesterday mark was on squawk and they reported a quarter that did not meet standards and the stock got hit badly. it's trying to claw its way back. but i would point out, this is important for your world. sales for the hostess business remain under pressure.

i put that against the documentary tomorrow night, because glps would be in the sweet spot, ha ha, of what you wouldn't want which is twinkies. >> we did it right at this time yesterday ended up -- >> stock was up 100%. that's between viking, the -- >> it's up again. >> the cruise ship line versus viking therapeutics you make the call. >> a pretty good week right there. 151%. >> phase two is not as good as phase three that lilly has but it doesn't seem to matter people can't get enough. dutch is doing another offering, this time -- >> you can't go from viking to dutch bros. >> i'm talking about the secondaries going on right now. no, viking is a primary. >> what do you have on the show tonight? >> i don't know. i have sales force and snowflake. >> that's right you have benioff

and slootman. >> yes. >> are they together or separate? they're coming on separate. >> yes. they have different reports tonight. >> key report after the bell -- both? >> slootman i said, listen your forecast doesn't seem to do what the company thinks. he said, jim, the forecast is the forecast. that was the end of that. >> yeah. >> i was shaking at the end. >> he scares you. >> flying dutchman. >> don't be intimidated by slootman. >> how can you not. >> be strong. i will. i promise i'll be strong. all right. stocks are under pressure this morning. keep an eye on the market, keep it here.

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good wednesday morning welcome to another hour of "squawk on the street" i'm sara eisen, with david faber, live for you as always pr frompost nine of the new york stock

exchange carl is on assignment. stocks under pressure, down half a percent or so for the dow, s&p 500 down a third of one percent. helped in strengths like energy, the banks are doing well today. so are industrials. technology is at the bottom of the pack. that's why the nasdaq is a little bit lower today, despite recent strength. nasdaq composite down more than half a percent as we speak. looking at treasuries. a light data day we're going to talk about the revision to gdp. there's some buying of bonds, the 10 year yield below 4.3%. here are three movers we're watching. shares of e bay are rallying this morning. g guidance topping expectations there. bitcoin jumping above $60,000 for the first time since back in november of 2021. bitcoin now up more than 40% so far this year. also keep an eye on united

health. reports the justice department has launched an anti-trust investigation into the health care giant more on this story ahead on the show. david, let's dive into gdp. even though it's a second look at the fourth quarter we're hyper focused on these economic numbers to try to figure out which direction we're going and really what it says about the consumer. we learned the economy in the fourth quarter grew 3.2%, a little less than 3.3%. still above trend growth. nominal growth if you take out inflation, it's in the high 4s. all the more impressive given that the federal reserve has sharply raised interest rates. and to slow down the economy and to cool off inflation and we're still in good shape. the other positive news here, the positive story in the revision is on the consumer. consumer spending which we know is the engine revised up. 3% increase in the fourth quarter instead of 2.8%.

another decent sign that sets us up for what could be another strong quarter of growth. the reason for the revision had to do with the inventory, the build was a little bit slower than the initial gdp report suggests. but and then it also i'll mention it not a huge deal but the number, the deflator in these numbers, the inflationary read in these numbers, higher revised to 1.7 from 1.5 and the core number revised to 2.1 from 2%. not too dramatic and we get the main pce tomorrow for january. >> 8:30 tomorrow? >> yes. 8:30 tomorrow. but you could look at it as stronger consumer picture, hotter inflation picture. we need to see more evidence. again it goes to the theme right now from the fed this is market we need to see more evidence of what's happening with the economy and the inflation picture. >> yeah. rates haven't changed in the

last 24 hours. the ten year right where it was at 4.299, for example. you like to monitor various quotes from companies in particular those reporting earnings from their conference calls, always helpful. i know we had tjx out. we were talking about it this morning but you are getting a sense for the consumer, not to mention you mentioned ebay in your coverage of some of the stocks moving. >> i think it's worth diving into all of these. i want to start with the cfo of walmart who i spoke to yesterday. walmart reported last week but i wasn't here so i wanted an updated view of what's going on with the consumer. obviously walmart had a good quarter so they're benefitting from this environment but i wanted to share the tidbits of what he said, which is basket sizes are down a couple of percent from a year ago. consumer is stillstretched and

choiceful. >> when they say "still stretched" what is the still referring to to? >> from last year. they dealt with it. lower forces and inflation have been bearing the brunt of the higher rates and higher inflation. they've seen that. examples are on large ticket items consumers are waiting for promotions, for instance. it doesn't mean they're seeing anything recessionary in terms of behavior. i think it speaks to not everything is necessarily booming. and two other things i wanted to note he said. on the january retail sales which everyone is trying to figure out the weakness he thought it was weather impact. saw it at walmart too and the rest of the month looked okay. and the last five days tax refunds were down 20%, which impacted shopping days in the last five days. gives awe sense of the sensitivity of the consumer

through the cross currents moving through the economy. interesting. if you're tjx and off price, it's a good environment where consumers are prioritizing and having to be more choiceful, to use a walmart word. the tjx release, comp store sales increased 5%. we know another strong quarter. >> it was a strong quarter but we should point out the call begins at 11:00 a.m. this morning. >> that's why we took from the release. >> it was above what they expected. saw growth at every division driven by customer transactions which underscores our confidence in our ability to gain market share. very strong finish to 2023 and start to the new year in a position of strength with the first quarter off to a good start. but again, it's not like rising tide lifts all boats. here's what the ebay cfo had to say about where spending is strong and where it's in the as strong. >> softer demand for discretionary goods during the

beginning of q4 consumers are elevated inflation and higher interest rates in our key markets. shoppers were more discerning in their purchase behavior as we approach the holidays. however we start to see our business immatprove towards thed of november, particularly in the u.s., by consumers looking for value to stretch their holiday budgets. >> there's the word value and stretch. so there's a theme. they're spending but they're trying to spend wisely. and i'll just leave you with urban outfitters and the ceo on that conference call to help without with the spending environment. >> turning to the health of our customers. we believe they, as a group, are in good shape. they're not as exuberant as they were first coming out of the pandemic. they don't have as many weddings and events to attend. they are less apt to move and have recently refurbished their

living spaces. so demand for categories like dressier footwear and home furnishings are trending softer. but they do enjoy a secure job and earning more money than ever. they tend to be optimistic. want the latest fashion and are willing to spend some of those extra earnings to enjoy them. >> that was the ceo of urban, richard hain. which i think encapsulates what's happening with the consumer right now. >> they do enjoy a secure job earning more than ever. doing surveys? or is he just listening to us? >> a little bit of both. but you can see, look, from their customers spending -- >> we talk about it all the time, spending on experiences, cruises, things of that nature continues. >> there's a post covid thing. there are fewer weddings than right out of covid so they don't need to buy dressier shoes and they spent on their home.

the final consumer data point i'll give you as it relates to the macro environment comes from a bank of america, the management team. there have been all these financial compensation. >> yes. >> so bank of america said average clients have 24% more in their checking account relative to 2019 and the average client has about 16% more in their savings account relative to 2019. so the numbers are still elevated. they've come down and come down at certain income levels faster than others. >> that's a big number. >> that's pretty good. >> should have been your lead. >> i liked the other color. >> i liked it too. >> it's more nuanced. >> i like it all. i look forward to this every day. >> i do too. >> every day i look forward to this. i learn so much. moving to apple, perhaps we'll learn something here as well. it's been an under performing at least in the mag 7 so far this year. the tech giant getting ready to meet shareholders they'll have a meeting in a couple hours from now it comes from reports saying

apple is winding down the electric car project. this after ten years. shifting some of the people on that effort to a.i. let's bring in a panel here. gill lori, a neutral rating on the stock. dan ives, of course our viewers know, he likes apple, has a price target of 250. and dan, just give me your quick take on this reported move out of autos. we've been waiting and waiting. not that we ever thought we'd see a car, and potentially taking some of those resources and putting them into generative a.i. efforts. >> yeah, they had ripped the band-aid off. it was clear this was putting good money after bad. investors want to see them focused all in on a.i. this is something that's been a painful period going through in terms of starts and stops on the ev initiatives. i think the writing was on the wall. the smart move for cook and

cupertino. i think it's a step forward and puts the chapter in the past. >> gill your thoughts about the move as well? >> when apple originally tried to get into the car market they thought it would be a winner takes most market where they could get 50% margin and most of the value in the car would be in the computing platform. that was because tesla was having such great success and it was easy to extrapolate that. as we sit here today, in the ev trough of disallusionment, they see the car market is still fragmented, most of the value is not yet in the compute. they can't get to 50% margins there. so they're stepping back and investing in a.i. which has far more potential for them, especially in the next few years. >> do we have any sense, dan, of how much capital they put forward for this endeavor over the years? >> it's billions. it could potentially be up to 8 to 10 billion in terms of what

they actually spent. for apple, they've been there before where they spend for products that never left apple park. but this was an initiative that cook and i think within apple they thought it was going to launch. but as gill talked about, writing was on the wall, and they'll talk about it at the shareholder day, all focus on a.i. because as a.i. comes to the apple e ccosystem, that to me i the golden goose. that's where they monetize. >> you've been talking about that. of course we haven't really seen any true evidence of it. you expect that towards the second half of this year, right? we're going to see something when it comes to this effort? >> yeah. it's two components. one is the app store, the a.i. app store they'll talk about that at wwdc in june, that's going to be a separate app store for a.i. and the big one is going to be incorporating a.i. into iphone 16.

i think that combo speaks to now what you're seeing across the board in coupeupertino, all hann deck when it comes to a.i. >> i want to get back to the shareholder meeting. you say there should be a focus on perhaps capital return. why? >> apple can return a lot more cash than it is right now. right now talking about half a percent dividend yield and two and a half percent of the market cap they bought back. far more cash, while they're growing low single digits they should be returning more cash. and i want to build on what dan said about a.i. what we need to hear from them isn't just incremental things like photo touchups and auto complete and text. what we want to hear is about an assistant. i want to say, hey, apple assistant, book me a restaurant tomorrow night with my boys near the concert venue at around 7:00 and it can do that. and apple is uniquely positioned

to do that. and to dan's point, it needs to be tied to the iphone 16. if that can run on previous versions of the iphone it will be hard for them to get a big upgrade cycle from iphone 16 so those are the things we'll be looking for. >> finally, dan, just to zoom out on the decision. i know you cover tesla as well. i wonder if it says something about the softer ev demand environment that we have been talking about and wondering about and all auto makers have been pivoting towards in the u.s.? >> it's clearly some dark days for evs. we're seeing that globally. the price war has contributed. i think it's also an indirect nod to tesla. tesla has the strong hold to the market as well as byd in china. this is another dark cloud over the overall ev market. but i think the glass half full could potentially be tesla with

apple not eventually coming to the market. >> why isn't the stock up. didn't investors view this apple project kind of bearishly? >> look, they did. but i think investors want to see, as gill talked about, you want to see from the shareholder meeting, see in the coming months, it's all about a.i. and the renaissance of growth on the iphone. that's why it continues to underperform. but i think a year from now, looking at a 4 trillion cap as a renaissance to growth happens in cupertino. >> right. i'm looking forward to the day i can tell my phone to make reservations for me. still can't get into the really good restaurants, right? won't be able to do that because they're hard to get into. >> you think the chat bot can beat the system? didn't work for sneakers. >> that would be an app. thank you for a good conversation, guys. appreciate it. >> you just have to know the right people, david. as we head to break, our road map for the rest of the hour.

a red hot region outside the u.s. that's outperforming. >> china's real estate re reckoning. the one city investors need to focus on to understand what's happening over there. starbucks agrees to talks with a workers union. what's next for that? the dow down 144. we'll be right back. sports tech like this smart fitness mirror. i'm also mr. leg day...1989! anyone can become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq, a fund that gives you access to nasdaq-100 innovations. i go through a lot of pants. before investing carefully read and consider fund investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and more in prospectus at invesco.com.

welcome back to "squawk on the street." small caps notching the longest

winning street of 2024, the russell 2000 up around 14%. the gdp downgraded to 3.2% still strong. the next guest is looking overseas for growth. rouche sharma joins us now. looking at the u.s. and india, tale of two markets. we have seen strength from india, mexico, japan, a lot of overseas markets, are the opportunities better outside the u.s. even with the growth we're seeing. >> india has demonstrated that. if you look at the decade. it's remarkable. the size of the india market is dwarfed by the united states. the united states over $50 trillion, no market in the world anywhere close to that. india about the fourth or fifth largest with a cap just over $5 billion. but having said that, there are 180 companies in india that have

tripled in value or more in this decade, more than you see in the united states. so there's a lot of breath in terms of what's happening in india. and the u.s. case has been very concentrated with megacaps dominating. but some of these other markets you've seen a lot of breath. you mentioned about japan, that market is finally coming alive after having been dead for so long. and mexico. and places like eastern europe, you have poland, greece, registered strong returns. of course nothing beats the united states because of the size and performance and what america has been doing and it's now nearly 50% of global market cap but still the opportunities abroad look interesting. and demonstrated in a couple of cases to be pretty good bets. >> you write in your peace about ie

-- piece about a.i. that's a big component in the u.s. do you get that elsewhere or do you have to come to the u.s. market to get the a.i. lift. >> that's the main reason why the u.s. market still keeps outperforming so many other global peers. it's very narrow, concentrated, a lot about a.i. and yes, the current is all about a.i. if that's what you want to play, the u.s. is the place to be. there's taiwan, which is also relatively well but that's also on the back of a.i. but yes, if your vision or your thing in life is that this decade or the future is only about a.i., then america continues to look exceptional. there has to be warnings about india. 85 billion options purchased in 2023. eight times the volume that we saw in the u.s. and people holding a contract for half an hour.

that sounds like a speculative bubble for me in some ways. >> yes, that's also going on in india. the india market is probably the only one that's more expensive than the yiet. so those are quite remarkable statistics. and even some of the retail mania. that's what happens in bull markets. you get signs of excesses and india is susceptible to a correction. but i think the point about india is that a lot of foreign investors have not participated in this rally. the entire rally in india is driven by domestic investors. not much more participation because global investors including those in the u.s. are so caught up in what's happening here in the a.i. frenzy that they're sort of missed out on what's happening globally, including in india. so yes, there are pockets of excesses, which we have here in the u.s. but i think people just have given too much to the natural

markets and for good reason you can argue but i'm trying to point out, listen there's a lot internationally as well in india. >> there are also elections in india and the u.s. and a lot of these places this year. do you expect politics to be a headwind or tailwind or neither? >> in india, the election seems to be a done deal, everyone expects modi to get a third term. the united states it's remarkable, we are here in terms of a few months away from the election. you have a lot of people who think democracy is in danger and those alarmist calls and yet the market doesn't really seem to care. there's not much they're pricing in about the election. the markets are sort of taking the view, listen, it doesn't matter who comes and the institutions are strong enough. the basic trajectory will be determined by america's companies. so it's a remarkable bet.

i am concerned as far as american is concerned by the fiscal trajectory and the complacency there. america's fiscal position today is an outlier. no other country in the developed world with a fiscal deficit as wide as america and america's debt situation is only comparable to possibly italy in the entire developed world. i think that deserves some attention quickly. >> markets starting to pay attention to it, thank you. appreciate it. up next we reveal our new cnbc game changers list. 50 trail blazing women transforming business and philanthropy, very excited for this. we're back after a quick break. wall street forecasts over 100 billion in sales for anti-obesity drugs known as glp -1. but these treatments are largely administrated through cumbersome injections. enter lexaria bioscience with their patented oral

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better questions. better outcomes. welcome back to "squawk on the street." today we are introducing cnbc's change makers list. julia boorstin has the details. i know you and the team are working hard on this. really excited to hear about it. >> we are so excited about cnbc's change makers, women transforming business, it highlights 50 women innovating and driving change across the industry. demonstrating new models for

leadership. >> change makers spans 17 sectors, including 15 startup ceos and founders. 11 public company ceos overseeing a combined market cap of $170 billion. five women deploying technology to jump start philanthropic impact and four women shaking up sports. each has accomplished a meaningful achievement within the past year, securing manufacturing capacity for a life changing drug to repurrepu repurposing plastic waste, to driving new value in sports and media. they demonstrate, transformation, growth, innovation and impact. they are driving change through new approaches to old problems. aligning purpose and profits. these women are taking new approaches to solving problems. and some are creating entirely new industries.

showing a knew diverse paradigm for what success look like. their stories are inspiring and surprising. demonstrating their innovation and resilience. >> what i love about it, first of all there are a lot of great ceos on here but there are also cfos on here and other women. i constantly i'm sure you do too after your book, i'm hearing i want more diversity on my board but it's so hard to find women in the ceo role. it puts some fresh names and ideas on the map. >> we put out an application process and drew over 700 applications. we had companies with evaluations of over 100 348d j -- $100 million just to make sure we were getting a size, and then

we had an advisory board to get a sense of the women's reach and attributes to identify change makers. people leading in new ways or driving change across industries. and we put together all of this data in an algorithm. and so what we were trying to do here is identify women driving change. not only in their own companies but also across sectors. >> and you did it. thank you, julia. julia boorstin. >> thanks, david. after the break, the rising risk of commercial real estate and how artificial intelligence perhaps may come to the rescue. plus the doj is reported to be taking a close look at united health care, starting an antitrust review of that company. give you the details, don't go anywhere.

democrats agree. conservative republican steve garvey is the wrong choice for the senate. ...our republican opponent here on this stage has voted for donald trump twice. mr. garvey, you voted for him twice... as your own man, what is your decision? garvey is wrong for california. but garvey's surging in the polls. fox news says garvey would be a boost to republican control of the senate. stop garvey. adam schiff for senate. i'm adam schiff, and i approve this message. welcome back. i'm dominic chu with your cnbc

money minute. members of two gop house committees are grilling hunter biden today. the younger biden had rejected participating in the closed door deposition for months, arguing it should be public. just last week james biden, the president's brother told lawmakers that his brother was never involved in his work. the federal aviation administration is to giving boeing 90 days to come up with a plan for quality control after a door plug blew out minutes into an alaska airline flight. bolts needed to secure the panel appeared to be missing. a physician is examining president biden at walter reed for his annual physical. the white house said it will release a summary of the 81-year-old's health record today. the president's doctor found last year he was healthy and fit to execute the duties of the presidency. david, back to you. >> dom, thank you.

data center usage and demand have skyrocketed. this as a.i. and generative a.i. is driving costs higher. this as worldwide spending on a.i. solutions expected to grow by what may be more than half a trillion dollars by 2027. joining us is the chairman and ceo of author equities, managing some $20 billion, including data centers as well. joe, nice to have you here. >> thank you so much. i feel like a lot of the executives we talked to want to change the subject from office, how about data centers. to be fair it's growing very quickly. i wonder with so much capital chasing it whether the returns are going to be there still. >> yes. very much so. why? the same reason you see the movement of the stock price of nvidia and anything a.i. related. the appetite for this new technology or the advancing of the technology is ginormous.

so the capital first goes to a funnel. first it goes to those companies. first it goes to creating those chips, ets et cetera, et cetera. then the need real estate wise for the data centers and the storage. and that's really only begun. even though there's so much interest from real estate investors for data centers, they're sort of afraid of it. they don't understand it. they hesitate about it. and last but not least is the scale. we had one project weer doing in madrid. the original budget was on the same piece of land was to develop 400 million euros worth of spending for the development. on the same property because of the demand from our potential tenant, the same site, it's going to be about a 2.6, 2.7 billion euro project on the same piece of land. >> because they're doing so much more there? >> so much demand. i see.

>> particularly, there's about 14 tenants out there the most voracious users but everybody you're talking about that's cloud related, cloud security related, chip related. they're the ones creating the demand. >> with obviously the cost to capital is a lot higher now than it was. with ten year money 5, 6%, aren't cap rates going up too? >> what it is is what we look to do is play where the growth is, focus where the growth is. i think what people don't realize when you invest in a market like say the office market is you have to mark where the fundamentals, the rents are coming down and costs are going up. at least what's exciting in terms of the data center side of the world, the costs are going up but the demand is voracious. you look at it from a global point of view, one of the things i said actually i think on your show a lot of years ago, i said one day you're going to see in this bipolar separational world

you'll see amazon stop doing business in russia and apple not being able to do business in a china. what that means is that separation, now there's a race to bring the chip jobs home and accelerate those manufacturing of chips for that sort of race that creates more data center needs. so the bottom line is demand more and more for rent makes up for the greater cost of the real estate. just need to find the real estate investors willing to plunge into something that's not traditional real estate but also has the technology to it which is not the wheel or deal types -- >> you're talking about it like a newfound thing. blackstone i think it's the largest component of what is the largest real estate portfolio there is. it's not like data center investment has not been going on for some time. >> they only pivoted to that space 10 or 14 years ago.

before 14 years ago they weren't. what's amazing about blackstone, particularly john gray, they're the pioneer. so they're doing it but not a lot of people have the size of checkbook to write a check for a $2.6 billion project. that's just one project i gay you an example of -- gave you an example of, the other project is $4.6 billion. there's a limited number of investors who have the ability to put that out. so blackstone is ahead of the curve they've always been ahead of the curve. i respect them greatly. i'm an investor, a fan and regular friend of the senior team up there. not a lot of other capital chasing it to the degree they are. still a humongous market. >> i saw a project announced in mexico -- >> excellent point.

the world is a bigger world than it used to be. we think of the world in a western limited nato, et cetera. but there's a world out there of emerging markets and growing countries. mexico is one of them but yes, mexico is an incredible opportunity in almost every asset class i think probably the largest and most active developer in that country in the last ten years and all from groups, and i would say probably one of the most exciting is industrial real estate and data centers. because they're later coming to the game but still have that voracious appetite. that's why you see the world changing back to what i was starting to say. china doing less business with america, looking to go to the emerging markets, whether it's ourselves, america, or china we're both also competing for those markets. >> i want to come back to office, though, and get your take. in terms of where you see things going. are you going to have a lot of

stressed properties on your hands in terms of needing more equity and/or how that portfolio looks from you from that perspective? >> i don't know if we were smart or just lucky. but we've been folks that are constantly pivoting and moving to where the demand is. so we evolve the business as commodity office guy, then technology office developer, then to a life science biotech user and because of the highs of covid we exited that, might look to revisit. while we have a little bit of pain here and there, some legacy assets over all blessed we had to free up the capital to chase industrial to be able to chase data centers. so sort of the need for capital. >> can you change office -- can you repurpose office buildings into data center buildings? there's probably a supply problem with the data center and demand problem on office. >> excellent question.

it's not just data centers it's everything that's happening should be revisited. i was talking to a friend who was telling me the challenge he had in new york city looking for a short term space. i said office, take one of those office buildings and turn it into short term office space. the answer to get what you're saying, is really a pocketbook to be able to do it. right now the office market is so beaten, there's so much -- it's even worse than what you might think the exaggerations are. it really is much, much worse. it hasn't even played out through the system yet. because they're now currently zombie owners i owe more to my bank than the office is worth. how hard are those guys working on it? they don't have the pocketbook to reinvent it. so we need to see that wash through the system before it's

ready to come back and regenerate to its highest, best use. which might be data centers. >> there you go. well done, ending on your main point. joe, thank you. appreciate you taking the time. let's turn to the china property market and how they're dealing with their own real estate reckoning. this is a slow moving train wreck. eunice yoon joins us from beijing. what's the latest? >> reporter: sara, chinese authorities as you said are hoping for a recovery in the property market. but as i found out this week, on a trip, it -- that might be a lot to ask for. thinking of buying a home in china? maybe not this one. this housing development was built in 2011 but most of them, like this one, have never been occupied. as you can see, they're not well maintained. >> here in the city of nan tong,

unsold apartments are everywhere. half of the near 800 in this complex. research firm rhodium estimates as many as 26 million. in nan tong's case, people thought they would move from the cities. but it was bypassed as buyers chose apartments closer to shanghai and because of the demographic decline, the population is declining. local projections forecast it could take five years to find buyers for the new unsold apartments. and a bad job market have slowed sales. >> reporter: in 2019, this building would have sold out in two months. today they're hoping for two years. the fear is many of the homes

will never sell and remain a burden on the real estate market. some of the homes are empty because people bought them as investments but never intended on living in them. so the developments can feel pretty lonely. >> great reporting. thank you, eunice yoon in beijing. after the eabrk starbucks set to begin talks with the workers united union. they're going to discuss bargaining agreements and the like. we'll give you the details next. don't go anywhere. for 88 years, morgan stanley has offered clients determination and forward thinking to create the future... crowd: stop it! ...only you can see. american announcer: rose, back in the winner's circle. [crowd cheers] [music out]

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starbucks is raising wages for workers at unionized cafes. getting pay hikes their nonunion coworkers collected. the move signals a thaw in negotiations going on for years between the coffee giant and the yun union. starbucks saying it would provide credit card tipping a benefit available in nonunion stores for a year.

it's a gesture as they are changing the position and going to come to the table and negotiate at collective bargaining we don't know what that's going to look like or mean but i think it's a big notable change. this is not the howard schultz's starbucks. there's a new ceo, been there for a few months, spent time in the cafes and clearly he's bringing a different attitude when it comes to working and now seemingly embracing these unions. the other only context i would note -- >> take a look for some reason at howard schultz there. >> no longer on the board. big shareholder. >> boycotts of the company in part that have taken a hit as a result of his association, right? >> i guess. the middle east. >> yeah. the middle east stuff. >> a lot of western brands are dealing with this. >> they are, but in particular, starbucks is taking the brunt of

some of this. >> they had to sue the union because the union came out in praise of terrorism after october 7th. the bottom line, there's an interesting new attitude from ceos, satya nadella, video game employees at microsoft. and i've just noticed, it's a little bit of a different attitude than some of the other big tech companies, which have really pushed back hard. >> let's bring in kate rogers. zb >> amazon, kate rogers has been covering this story for a while over at starbucks. >> this is certainly a really big move here between the union and starbucks, agreeing to this framework. i want to make sure that we drive home, this is starbucks committing to extend some of these tenure-based annual raises to employees in union-represented stores, and also offering the credit card tipping option that was given to their non-union stores back under howard schultz in 2022. at the time, schultz and the starbucks team said that they

couldn't make unilateral changes at unionized stores, because contracts needed to be negotiated, if the union was going to be able to access some of these new benefits instituted under schultz. remember, the union has organized store by store individually, so starbucks needs to negotiate these contracts at individual stores. they are just under 400 locations that have opted to unionize of its 16,000-store, including licensed locations, footprint across the united states. the fact that the two are agreeing to what they're calling a framework for collective bargaining is significant. and a good faith move on behalf of starbucks in putting forth access to these benefits for those union locations. >> okay, kate, thank you very much for the additional context there. the microsoft, i think you should clarify, they've been neutral on the unionization efforts inside microsoft, as opposed to what you say, google, apple, amazon. >> right, amazon, it's much more in the distribution centers, where the efforts have really

been made. well, next hour, we have a good interview, we'll talk to the ceo of kroger, rodney mcmullen, first time he'll react to the suit to block the $20 billion to buy albertson's. how he plans to fight back and what he makes of that complaint. >> really important for them, obviously, as they go to court, it's going to be some time. i don't know that we have a date -- we don't, but, yeah, because if they were to lose, sarah, as you pointed out, they're in a difficult position in terms of competing. >> it's a competitive environment out there. and that gets to the core of the case. >> at the core of their argument being, we're going to be more effective in competing against the walmarts and costcos of the world. >> but the ftc, you're buying your biggest competitor and that's going to hurt consumers and workers. >> antitrust figuring prominently in a lot of discussions we're having. united health care another example of that this morning. we'll take a quick break and back in two. (♪♪) access to opportunity isn't always equal. but at the massmutual foundation, we believe tha—

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has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

we were just talking about anti-trust. the doj is going after united health care, starting an anti-trust review of the company. eamon javers here with more details. good morning, eamon.

>> "the wall street journal" is reporting dhapt of justice has opened an antitrust investigation into health care giant, united health. according to the paper, doj investigators are interviewing health care industry players and have asked about relationships between the companies united health care insurance unit and its optum health services arm. the department of justice and united tell cnbc they have no comment on the report today. the news comes amid a very aggressive department of justice anti-trust push, as the government examines proposed deals such the disney/fox/warner brothers streaming plan, insiders also speculating that doj could launch a new case against apple in coming weeks, as well. we'll have to watch for that possibility. and for united health, the news adds to a tough week. on february 21st, the company says it identified a suspected nation state hacker that had gained access to some of the company's change health care divisions information technology

systems. that attack is impacting operations, but is not expected to be material to the stock. so some struggles here for the company, and as you look forward at the overall anti-trust picture, guys, you have to think about the biden administration now in the last year of its first term, you can imagine there's pressure over at doj to wrap up as many of these cases as they can, before we get too close to the election season. >> yeah, of course, they do tend to take a long time, as you well know. eamon, thank you. mojarsean ve. our live market coverage continues right after this. you've been a real rock star. rock star? what do you know about rock stars? billy idol? i mean where's the skin-tight leather? my shoes are leather. where's the unnecessary zippers? that thing! billy, rock star is just how doug feels when he uses workday. thanks, rory. i'll show you rock star! be a finance and hr rock star. workday. for a changing world. billy idol just stole your golf cart!

good wednesday morning. welcome to "money movers." i'm sara eisen with mike santoli live today on the floor of the new york stock exchange. this hour, the ceo of kroger responding to the ftc on the agency's block of its albertson's merger. >> plus, the ceo of bny mellen ahead of pce inflation report tomorrow and what he expects from the fed. >> the ceo of cava on a huge earnings beat and same-store sales surge for the quarter, a lot higher than the market was expecting. >> for sure. >> major indices right now are still under some pressure, but rising towards the flat line. the s&p 500 is almost back to